WEBVTT - Solvable: The Depression and Anxiety We Can All Expect During This Pandemic 0:00:15.076 --> 0:00:24.756 Pushkin, this is solvable. I'm Jacob Weisberg. I did say 0:00:24.796 --> 0:00:26.756 to my wife early on, I said, you know, if 0:00:26.756 --> 0:00:28.796 I had the choice to spend a year in space 0:00:29.236 --> 0:00:34.556 or a year in this apartment, this apartment wins every 0:00:34.596 --> 0:00:37.716 single time, because you know, space has all kinds of 0:00:37.756 --> 0:00:42.796 other challenges. Retired NASA astronaut Scott Kelly made history in 0:00:42.836 --> 0:00:46.556 twenty sixteen when he returned home from a year long 0:00:46.636 --> 0:00:50.476 mission in space. He spent three hundred and forty consecutive 0:00:50.556 --> 0:00:54.156 days away from family, friends, and loved ones, three hundred 0:00:54.156 --> 0:00:57.796 and forty days without gravity, and also without hugs and 0:00:57.876 --> 0:01:01.676 without a home cooked meal. In many ways, that prefigured 0:01:01.716 --> 0:01:04.596 the kind of social isolation that so many of us 0:01:04.596 --> 0:01:08.236 have been forced to live through during this pandemic. Obviously, 0:01:08.276 --> 0:01:11.516 a year in space is different from social distancing during 0:01:11.556 --> 0:01:15.876 COVID nineteen, but that experience did teach him some lessons 0:01:16.116 --> 0:01:19.796 that make facing the challenges of this time a little easier. 0:01:20.236 --> 0:01:23.156 It's going to be tough, There's no question. I've spent 0:01:23.236 --> 0:01:27.956 three Christmases in space. You know, it's a unique place 0:01:27.996 --> 0:01:30.116 to spend the holiday, but at the same time, you 0:01:30.196 --> 0:01:33.676 want to be with your friends and family. People just 0:01:33.756 --> 0:01:36.916 need to realize that this is part of our collective mission. 0:01:37.556 --> 0:01:40.076 There is no shame in asking for help. On the 0:01:40.116 --> 0:01:43.116 space station, I had to talk to a psychiatrist every 0:01:43.156 --> 0:01:46.516 two weeks. Kelly trained hard for his missions and now 0:01:46.556 --> 0:01:49.076 has some advice for how to build up both our 0:01:49.116 --> 0:01:53.916 physical and mental health during challenging times. I am Scott Kelly, 0:01:53.996 --> 0:01:59.276 former NASA astronaut, and my solvable problem is the depression 0:01:59.436 --> 0:02:03.836 and anxiety that we can all expect to experience during 0:02:03.876 --> 0:02:09.876 this pandemic. Scott, welcome. I have to ask you. The 0:02:09.956 --> 0:02:14.636 space X Falcon just launched, taking four astronauts to the 0:02:14.676 --> 0:02:18.196 space station for six months, and I just wonder what 0:02:18.316 --> 0:02:21.676 your thoughts were about that, especially at a moment when 0:02:22.156 --> 0:02:24.316 the country and so much of the world is facing 0:02:24.316 --> 0:02:27.516 a very different kind of separation from normal life. Well. 0:02:27.556 --> 0:02:31.356 I was excited for NASA. You know, we've been working 0:02:31.396 --> 0:02:36.396 on that commercial crew program for almost ten years now, 0:02:36.516 --> 0:02:41.916 I think, and to now have the capability to regularly 0:02:42.276 --> 0:02:45.036 launch people into lowerth orbit and get them to the 0:02:45.076 --> 0:02:50.116 International Space Station is a huge success. You know. More personally, 0:02:50.396 --> 0:02:54.236 I am friends with all of the people on the spacecraft, 0:02:54.836 --> 0:02:58.796 so Eachiagucci, the Japanese astronaut, as an aswered our classmate 0:02:58.796 --> 0:03:01.396 of mine. I was also in space with Shannon Walker 0:03:01.916 --> 0:03:04.836 on her previous mission, which was ten years ago, and 0:03:05.276 --> 0:03:07.916 I closed the hatch on her when she was returning 0:03:07.916 --> 0:03:10.876 to Earth and now spent ten years since she last flew, 0:03:10.956 --> 0:03:15.516 So that's exciting. Mike Hopkins was my crew support astronaut 0:03:15.516 --> 0:03:17.796 on my last mission, so you helped my family. And 0:03:17.796 --> 0:03:19.596 then Victor Glover. I don't know him as well, but 0:03:19.636 --> 0:03:22.516 he's a new guy. This is his first space flight, 0:03:22.636 --> 0:03:26.036 so very very exciting both for NASA and me personally 0:03:26.076 --> 0:03:29.316 because my relationships with those people. Yeah, So as you say, 0:03:29.356 --> 0:03:31.596 you know three of the four really well, so I 0:03:31.596 --> 0:03:34.156 imagine it's less a matter of you giving them advice 0:03:34.276 --> 0:03:37.196 on dealing with six months in space and I kind 0:03:37.196 --> 0:03:40.636 of comparing notes about all of your experiences. But what's 0:03:40.676 --> 0:03:43.996 that what's that conversation? Like, I mean, what when astronauts 0:03:44.036 --> 0:03:48.036 talk about the experience of long term isolation in space, 0:03:48.236 --> 0:03:51.236 what do you talk about? You know, Well, think specifically 0:03:51.276 --> 0:03:54.636 with those three folks that have experience on this flight, 0:03:54.676 --> 0:03:58.556 their experience is so extensive, you know, they've all flown 0:03:58.556 --> 0:04:01.316 in space for long duration space flights. I wouldn't give 0:04:01.356 --> 0:04:05.236 them any But when you're talking to somebody new, I mean, 0:04:05.276 --> 0:04:08.636 I think for me, it's important that they have the 0:04:08.716 --> 0:04:12.156 right perspective. And in the case when I flew for 0:04:12.276 --> 0:04:16.236 a year, my perspective on that mission was me being 0:04:16.276 --> 0:04:20.116 there for a long time was part of my job. 0:04:20.276 --> 0:04:23.076 That's why I was doing it. And you know, I 0:04:23.076 --> 0:04:27.956 think in this pandemic now and the isolation we're currently experiencing, 0:04:28.716 --> 0:04:31.316 people just need to realize that this is part of 0:04:31.356 --> 0:04:36.596 our collective mission. It's the first time in our in 0:04:36.636 --> 0:04:39.156 my lifetime, that you know, everyone on the planet has 0:04:39.196 --> 0:04:44.556 been working to solve a problem in in a collective way, 0:04:44.636 --> 0:04:47.076 to follow the guidance to do the right thing. So 0:04:47.556 --> 0:04:49.596 I think the first thing I tell people is to 0:04:49.676 --> 0:04:51.916 just understand that, you know, part of part of your 0:04:51.996 --> 0:04:54.396 job is just being there for a long time, and 0:04:54.476 --> 0:04:57.436 it's not going to be easy. But you know, if 0:04:57.436 --> 0:04:59.316 you if you think about it, if you're thoughtful, if 0:04:59.356 --> 0:05:02.236 you have a plan to get through it, you can 0:05:02.276 --> 0:05:04.716 get to the end of that six months or however 0:05:04.756 --> 0:05:07.556 long you're going to be in space with as much 0:05:08.036 --> 0:05:10.756 energy and as enthusiasm as you had in the beginning. 0:05:10.756 --> 0:05:13.156 And that was the case that I found in my 0:05:13.316 --> 0:05:16.836 year long mission. I think of being an astronaut as 0:05:16.916 --> 0:05:19.876 the definition of having a mission. But it's interesting that 0:05:19.916 --> 0:05:21.836 you say big part of the mission is to get 0:05:21.836 --> 0:05:24.436 through the mission, right which is something I think a 0:05:24.436 --> 0:05:27.076 lot of people can probably relate to right now. And 0:05:27.316 --> 0:05:31.516 six months isn't a crazy time frame estimate for how long? 0:05:31.716 --> 0:05:34.916 How much longer we're going to have to be isolated, 0:05:35.436 --> 0:05:39.116 at least to a significant extent, And it's a long 0:05:40.036 --> 0:05:43.556 winter with a lot of darkness, being around few of 0:05:43.676 --> 0:05:46.396 any people for some of us. I mean, do you 0:05:47.196 --> 0:05:50.196 what's the same about it? What's different about it? Well, 0:05:50.516 --> 0:05:52.236 you know, at the beginning of the pandemic, I was 0:05:52.316 --> 0:05:57.236 living in a high rise apartment in downtown Houston, which 0:05:57.316 --> 0:06:00.316 was I guess a little bit more stressful in that 0:06:00.356 --> 0:06:02.436 you're coming into contact with a lot of people in 0:06:02.436 --> 0:06:06.276 the elevator, you know, on a daily basis. But despite 0:06:06.316 --> 0:06:08.956 all this, I did say to my wife early on, 0:06:09.156 --> 0:06:10.556 I said, you know, if I had the choice to 0:06:10.596 --> 0:06:14.276 spend spend a year in space or a year in 0:06:14.316 --> 0:06:20.316 this apartment, this apartment wins every single time, because you know, 0:06:20.356 --> 0:06:24.876 space has all kinds of other challenges, you know, particularly 0:06:25.916 --> 0:06:29.396 the you know, the floating. You know, despite it being fun, 0:06:29.436 --> 0:06:31.996 it makes just about everything else more difficult to do. 0:06:32.196 --> 0:06:36.956 The carmen dioxide levels are generally fairly uncomfortable, you know, 0:06:36.956 --> 0:06:40.076 the fluid shift to your head makes your head always 0:06:40.116 --> 0:06:43.836 feel stuffed up. But there are many many things that 0:06:43.876 --> 0:06:50.276 are very similar about how you deal with isolation. And 0:06:50.396 --> 0:06:53.596 in my case, I flew a six month flight that 0:06:54.316 --> 0:06:56.316 a few years prior to me flying in space for 0:06:56.436 --> 0:06:58.836 nearly a year, and I at the end of that mission, 0:06:58.876 --> 0:07:01.716 I just found the you know, the anxiety building up, 0:07:01.756 --> 0:07:04.636 the walls closing in a little bit. So you know, 0:07:04.636 --> 0:07:07.436 a year flight was not all that appealing to me 0:07:07.476 --> 0:07:10.036 in the beginning, but you I wanted to fly again 0:07:10.076 --> 0:07:12.956 and I wanted to be more challenging, so eventually I 0:07:12.996 --> 0:07:16.196 came to terms with it. But I went into it 0:07:16.276 --> 0:07:19.356 with a plan. You know. My plan involved things like, 0:07:19.916 --> 0:07:24.836 you know, very closely following a schedule, pacing myself, you know, 0:07:24.916 --> 0:07:28.116 making time for work but also time to rest, time 0:07:28.156 --> 0:07:31.516 for hobbies, time to connect with you know, family and friends. 0:07:32.196 --> 0:07:35.356 And I did that very deliberately in the beginning of 0:07:35.356 --> 0:07:38.076 the pandemic. It definitely helped me through a year in 0:07:38.116 --> 0:07:41.636 space and is I think, you know, having that mindset 0:07:41.716 --> 0:07:44.116 of this is my mission. Here are the things I 0:07:44.196 --> 0:07:47.236 need to do, you know, to take care of myself, 0:07:47.356 --> 0:07:50.596 my family. You know it's important. You know, exercise and 0:07:51.556 --> 0:07:57.276 getting outside is incredibly important, especially in this pandemic where 0:07:58.076 --> 0:08:01.716 you know, having a healthy immune system is really really important. 0:08:01.756 --> 0:08:04.996 So and those two things can you know, really boost 0:08:04.996 --> 0:08:08.556 your immune system. So a lot of parallels. Yeah, talk 0:08:08.556 --> 0:08:11.916 about the technology part of it, because for so many 0:08:11.956 --> 0:08:15.196 of us, technology as a blessing and a curse in 0:08:15.356 --> 0:08:18.676 the time of the pandemic. With social isolation, it let's 0:08:18.676 --> 0:08:21.636 just do things remotely and enables all sorts of things, 0:08:21.876 --> 0:08:24.756 but it can feel really oppressive. And you know, I've 0:08:24.796 --> 0:08:27.796 never seen a picture of someone surrounded by more technology 0:08:27.916 --> 0:08:31.356 than you on the International Space Station. So how do 0:08:31.396 --> 0:08:34.196 you think about that? Well, I think we're just really 0:08:34.276 --> 0:08:36.876 lucky to live in this time and to go through 0:08:36.876 --> 0:08:40.956 a pandemic now versus nineteen eighteen. You know, it makes 0:08:41.036 --> 0:08:45.036 isolation easier because you know, the entertainment value having that 0:08:45.116 --> 0:08:48.196 technology to entertain us, to allow us to connect with 0:08:48.236 --> 0:08:52.476 our friends and family very very important. Gives us access 0:08:52.516 --> 0:08:56.236 to a lot of information. Yeah, Scott, when you're isolated. 0:08:56.436 --> 0:09:00.916 Is it helpful to stay closely involved with the news, 0:09:01.156 --> 0:09:03.196 I mean, in your case, the news from Earth. But 0:09:03.476 --> 0:09:05.316 I think a lot of people are having this question 0:09:05.436 --> 0:09:07.836 right now. Is you know this being on top of 0:09:07.876 --> 0:09:11.516 the news make you feel in control and knowing what's 0:09:11.516 --> 0:09:14.356 going on? Or does it? Does it have a negative 0:09:14.396 --> 0:09:18.076 effect on you? So I found in space that following 0:09:18.836 --> 0:09:22.236 the news on Earth was really important. Having said that, 0:09:22.276 --> 0:09:25.676 I am kind of a news junkie. In this type 0:09:25.716 --> 0:09:32.556 of environment, information is everything. It's the most important thing 0:09:32.596 --> 0:09:37.556 we have. It's how we prepare ourselves to combat this 0:09:37.636 --> 0:09:42.036 worldwide pandemic. So now having said that, you got to 0:09:42.036 --> 0:09:47.676 follow like informed and trusted sources. One of the things 0:09:47.716 --> 0:09:50.116 I learned in my twenty years at NASA was everything 0:09:50.116 --> 0:09:53.676 we did was not rocket science. When it was rocket science, 0:09:54.156 --> 0:09:56.636 you need to get your information from a rocket scientist, 0:09:56.756 --> 0:09:59.516 you know, not one of your friends on Facebook. I 0:09:59.556 --> 0:10:02.356 mean they might be great people, but you know they're 0:10:02.396 --> 0:10:05.556 not epidemiologists probably, I mean maybe some of them are, 0:10:06.796 --> 0:10:09.796 you know, people, just we need to be getting the 0:10:09.956 --> 0:10:13.716 right information from trusted sources, from the experts. Yeah, I 0:10:13.716 --> 0:10:16.996 mean an astronaut who didn't believe in experts would would 0:10:17.076 --> 0:10:21.676 be an astronaut with a short life expectancy. I imagine, yeah, absolutely. 0:10:21.716 --> 0:10:24.956 I mean everything we do, you know, you do as 0:10:25.036 --> 0:10:28.876 part of a team, and you you know, members of 0:10:28.876 --> 0:10:31.556 those teams are the experts. It's not you know your 0:10:31.556 --> 0:10:36.756 cousin Vinnie on Facebook. Indeed, Scott, I read somewhere that 0:10:36.796 --> 0:10:39.076 you took one of my favorite books into space, and 0:10:39.196 --> 0:10:44.116 that is Endurance by Alfred Lansing, which is about the Shackleton, 0:10:44.236 --> 0:10:49.436 the Doom Shackleton Antarctic expedition. What about that book is 0:10:49.876 --> 0:10:52.356 resonated with you? And do is that's still something the 0:10:52.436 --> 0:10:55.036 book you think about? You know, when I was getting 0:10:55.356 --> 0:11:00.196 ready to fly for six months, I wanted to bring 0:11:00.236 --> 0:11:05.356 a book with me that if my situation ever got 0:11:05.396 --> 0:11:09.716 really dire, which can happen. I mean generally early conditions 0:11:09.756 --> 0:11:12.516 up there's pretty is okay. But if it ever got 0:11:12.556 --> 0:11:16.196 so dire that I started feeling sorry for myself, I 0:11:16.236 --> 0:11:20.796 can't do this. I would just pick up Alfred Lansing's 0:11:20.836 --> 0:11:22.956 and Dorance read a few pages and then feel a 0:11:23.116 --> 0:11:26.276 lot better about my situation, because, I mean, there really 0:11:26.356 --> 0:11:31.836 is an incredible example of not only surviving in a 0:11:31.956 --> 0:11:37.756 extreme environment, over twenty people marooned on an iceberg for 0:11:37.836 --> 0:11:40.116 over a year after the ship sank in the Antarctic. 0:11:40.236 --> 0:11:44.276 But also an example of leadership that Ernist Shackleton displayed 0:11:44.316 --> 0:11:49.236 to get his crew to rescue themselves over the course 0:11:49.276 --> 0:11:52.996 of a two year period where no one died. I mean, 0:11:53.116 --> 0:11:57.276 it's just really an amazing, amazing feat of a teamwork 0:11:57.636 --> 0:12:01.556 and leadership and survival. So I flew with that book 0:12:01.596 --> 0:12:04.396 twice in space. That brought it with me. That's so great, 0:12:04.436 --> 0:12:07.636 and I recommended as highly as you do and anyone 0:12:07.636 --> 0:12:09.596 who had read it, among other things. It's just one 0:12:09.596 --> 0:12:12.836 of the great adventure stories of all time. That twenty 0:12:12.876 --> 0:12:15.916 fifteen mission where you were in space for a whole year, 0:12:16.316 --> 0:12:21.556 that was extraordinary in that it was partly a physiological 0:12:21.596 --> 0:12:24.756 study related to the fact that you have a twin brother, 0:12:24.916 --> 0:12:29.196 Mark just elected the Senate, also former astronaut, and it 0:12:29.276 --> 0:12:32.476 was sort of a unique opportunity to study what happens 0:12:32.556 --> 0:12:35.996 to someone in space against the control group of someone 0:12:35.996 --> 0:12:39.836 who wasn't in space. Tell me about that mission, what 0:12:39.876 --> 0:12:42.236 you were trying to find out and what we learned. Well, 0:12:42.236 --> 0:12:46.636 interestingly enough, spending a year in space had nothing to 0:12:46.636 --> 0:12:49.356 do with me having a twin brother, identical twin that 0:12:49.436 --> 0:12:52.796 was also an astronaut. It was kind of an afterthought 0:12:52.876 --> 0:12:55.836 after I was already selected, and kind of came up 0:12:56.036 --> 0:12:59.756 out of a question I asked. When they were getting 0:12:59.756 --> 0:13:03.276 ready to announce the crew of me and Misha, Russian 0:13:03.356 --> 0:13:09.276 brother from another mother Russian cosmonaut, they were given us 0:13:09.396 --> 0:13:11.036 was giving us a briefing on the science so we 0:13:11.076 --> 0:13:14.716 could answer questions from the media about the science. And 0:13:15.036 --> 0:13:17.876 in that briefing, I said, Hey, is there any thing 0:13:17.996 --> 0:13:20.316 planned any kind of experiments with my brother and I, 0:13:20.436 --> 0:13:23.836 because you know, being identical twins might give you a 0:13:24.316 --> 0:13:30.276 you know, unique insight. And the answer I got was no. 0:13:30.756 --> 0:13:32.396 Then they went back and talked about it for a 0:13:32.436 --> 0:13:35.156 few weeks and then went out to the you know, 0:13:35.196 --> 0:13:37.796 academic community, and there was a lot of interest. Even 0:13:37.796 --> 0:13:43.116 though it was a sample of one. They felt like 0:13:43.796 --> 0:13:47.236 there would be enough anecdotal information that they would, you know, 0:13:48.076 --> 0:13:53.036 give them insight on other areas to investigate. And yeah, 0:13:53.036 --> 0:13:55.916 there was a bunch of science done and some really 0:13:55.956 --> 0:13:59.836 interesting results. What have we learned so far from from 0:13:59.916 --> 0:14:05.116 that somewhat spontaneous experiment. I'm sure that the data will 0:14:05.156 --> 0:14:08.636 continue to accumulate as you both get older. Are you 0:14:08.796 --> 0:14:10.956 Are you five years older than your twin brother now 0:14:10.956 --> 0:14:13.076 as a result of spending a year in space? No, 0:14:15.276 --> 0:14:21.396 you know that Einstein's what is it general relativity time 0:14:21.436 --> 0:14:24.996 dilation thing. I think I'm now. I used to be 0:14:25.076 --> 0:14:27.676 six minutes younger. Now I am like six minutes and 0:14:28.196 --> 0:14:31.796 several milli seconds younger as a fact result of being 0:14:31.836 --> 0:14:34.236 in space or so long. Some of the other results, though, 0:14:34.276 --> 0:14:36.556 we're pretty interesting. You know, I'm not a I'm not 0:14:36.596 --> 0:14:40.916 a scientist. I only play one on TV. Yeah, some 0:14:40.996 --> 0:14:45.436 pretty interesting stuff. My telomeres change while it was in space. 0:14:45.636 --> 0:14:50.796 My telomeres are these ends of your chromosomes, like little caps, 0:14:50.916 --> 0:14:53.356 and as we get older, they get you know, more 0:14:53.916 --> 0:14:57.476 shorter and more fraid. It's really an indication of our 0:14:57.476 --> 0:15:02.276 physical age. And the hypothesis was that you'll mean, in space, 0:15:02.396 --> 0:15:07.796 the stress, microgravity, the radiation, you know, my telomeres would 0:15:07.836 --> 0:15:10.836 get shorter compared to my brothers. They actually got longer, 0:15:10.996 --> 0:15:14.276 which was a surprise, and at first they thought, well, 0:15:14.316 --> 0:15:17.396 maybe it was due to like exercise. We exercise a 0:15:17.476 --> 0:15:20.476 lot in space, because if you don't, you'll turn into 0:15:20.516 --> 0:15:25.476 gumby no bones, no bones or muscles. But yeah, so 0:15:25.516 --> 0:15:29.436 we exercise a lot, and initially that's what they thought 0:15:29.436 --> 0:15:34.396 it was maybe the controlled diet, and NASA the researchers 0:15:34.436 --> 0:15:37.876 realized that there were there was a Japanese experiment going 0:15:37.916 --> 0:15:41.916 on with these small worms. They were on the space 0:15:41.916 --> 0:15:45.116 station at the same time, and their telomeres got better too. 0:15:45.636 --> 0:15:47.716 And I never once saw those guys working out on 0:15:47.756 --> 0:15:51.516 a treadmill or doing any type of exercise. So clearly 0:15:52.436 --> 0:15:57.116 there's more to this than we understand. Yeah, were there 0:15:57.156 --> 0:16:02.836 any psychological observations you mentioned on the your six month visit, 0:16:02.916 --> 0:16:06.396 You're you're earlier from a shorter trip having a hard 0:16:06.436 --> 0:16:10.476 time towards the end of it. If you talk anymore 0:16:10.876 --> 0:16:14.396 about what that experience might have been like for our listeners, 0:16:14.476 --> 0:16:17.436 you know, because I think it makes people feel good 0:16:17.476 --> 0:16:20.116 to know that while asking outs are heroes, there are 0:16:20.156 --> 0:16:22.636 also normal human beings like the rest of us. But 0:16:22.796 --> 0:16:26.036 was there any comparison to what your brother went through 0:16:26.076 --> 0:16:28.596 at any point? So, you know, a lot of those 0:16:28.596 --> 0:16:31.476 studies were bass were cognitive studies, like we'd have to 0:16:31.516 --> 0:16:38.356 do these tests that really measured your ability to you know, 0:16:38.436 --> 0:16:42.596 focus and solve, you know, problems, things that you could 0:16:42.596 --> 0:16:45.636 do on a computer throughout my year in space, I 0:16:45.716 --> 0:16:49.396 continue to get better at these tests. I think maybe 0:16:49.396 --> 0:16:51.876 it was just because I was taking it very seriously, 0:16:52.116 --> 0:16:54.356 and then when I got back I got much worse. 0:16:56.076 --> 0:16:58.356 But I think it's really just a reflection on how 0:16:58.796 --> 0:17:02.836 I felt physically and how you're You know, physical well 0:17:02.876 --> 0:17:06.116 being definitely affects your mental well being and vice versa. 0:17:06.356 --> 0:17:08.356 But in the case of being on the space station 0:17:08.436 --> 0:17:10.276 for a long time, I got to the end of 0:17:10.276 --> 0:17:15.516 this flight feeling in much better shape mentally than I 0:17:15.556 --> 0:17:17.476 did on the sixth month, And I think it's just 0:17:17.516 --> 0:17:22.396 a testament to having a plan and sticking with the plan. 0:17:23.356 --> 0:17:28.316 And the plan was to pace myself to get exercise 0:17:28.396 --> 0:17:31.836 as much as I can, and you know, to follow 0:17:31.876 --> 0:17:35.716 a schedule. I think it's important to have weekends much 0:17:35.796 --> 0:17:38.316 different or as different as possible from your week days, 0:17:38.356 --> 0:17:40.636 because you definitely you need something to look forward to, 0:17:42.196 --> 0:17:46.956 otherwise the weeks will just run run together. But I 0:17:46.996 --> 0:17:49.636 think the biggest thing for me was just understanding that 0:17:51.116 --> 0:17:53.636 on that year long flight, the reason I was there 0:17:53.796 --> 0:17:55.756 was to be there a really long time. And when 0:17:56.436 --> 0:17:59.556 when you recognize you know what your mission is and 0:17:59.716 --> 0:18:02.596 have the proper perspective, I think it makes it easier, 0:18:02.596 --> 0:18:06.636 and I hope people will look at this situation, you know, 0:18:06.796 --> 0:18:09.556 especially now we're coming into a really critical time with 0:18:10.516 --> 0:18:15.676 rising cases, hospitalizations and you know, unfortunately deaths, but we're 0:18:15.676 --> 0:18:18.116 also getting close to we can see the light at 0:18:18.156 --> 0:18:21.276 the end of the tunnel, So I think people will naturally, 0:18:21.396 --> 0:18:23.916 you know, put their guard down and the situation could 0:18:23.956 --> 0:18:28.796 get much much worse because just because we have vaccines identified, 0:18:28.836 --> 0:18:31.036 doesn't mean they're giving us any kind of immunity at 0:18:31.036 --> 0:18:33.996 this point and won't be for some time. Unfortunately, they're 0:18:33.996 --> 0:18:35.956 going to work eventually, but it's you know, this is 0:18:35.996 --> 0:18:40.156 not the time to not take this seriously, and this 0:18:40.356 --> 0:18:45.076 time is the holiday time, Thanksgiving and Christmas, and basically 0:18:45.116 --> 0:18:47.196 the methods to a lot of people is to be safe, 0:18:47.316 --> 0:18:50.916 especially if they're older relatives. If you shouldn't have a 0:18:50.956 --> 0:18:53.756 family gathering, would you how do you how would you 0:18:53.796 --> 0:18:57.596 advise people to cope with that? It's going to be tough, 0:18:57.916 --> 0:19:02.716 There's no question. I've spent three Christmases in space. You know, 0:19:02.716 --> 0:19:05.556 it's a unique place to spend the holiday, but at 0:19:05.596 --> 0:19:07.516 the same time, you want to be you know, with 0:19:07.556 --> 0:19:10.836 your friends and family. People just need to realize that 0:19:10.956 --> 0:19:14.036 this is part of our collective mission. There is no 0:19:14.116 --> 0:19:17.156 shame in asking for help. On the space station, I 0:19:17.196 --> 0:19:20.796 had to talk to a psychiatrist every two weeks, so Scott, 0:19:20.996 --> 0:19:25.516 all the astronauts would speak to a psychiatrist or a psychologists. Yeah, 0:19:25.556 --> 0:19:28.036 every two weeks. Whether we like it or not, we 0:19:28.116 --> 0:19:32.636 have a like a twenty minute conference with psychiatrist psychologist 0:19:32.716 --> 0:19:36.036 for guys. I called them the brain trust I found. 0:19:36.036 --> 0:19:37.756 At the beginning of the mission, I didn't even I 0:19:37.756 --> 0:19:40.116 didn't like talking to them, But then as you know, 0:19:40.156 --> 0:19:42.396 I got further into it, it was, you know, it 0:19:42.436 --> 0:19:45.956 was a good way to share your feelings, your emotions, 0:19:45.956 --> 0:19:48.196 how you're getting along with your crew, how you're feeling 0:19:48.236 --> 0:19:51.996 about your life and your situation. And there's no shame 0:19:52.036 --> 0:19:57.396 in that. People are generally very you know, acceptable with 0:19:57.636 --> 0:20:00.796 going to a doctor for physical problems, but for some 0:20:00.836 --> 0:20:04.116 reason not mental problems. But there are a lot of 0:20:04.116 --> 0:20:07.156 resources out there. It's interesting. I mean, people of course 0:20:07.276 --> 0:20:09.356 usually do therapy in person, and now a lot of 0:20:09.396 --> 0:20:12.236 people are having some pression of the experience you did 0:20:12.316 --> 0:20:15.516 of getting it on Zoom and trying to trying to 0:20:15.556 --> 0:20:17.556 make that a human connection. It sounds like you've found 0:20:17.556 --> 0:20:23.596 that it developed over time. Yeah. Absolutely, And you know, 0:20:23.596 --> 0:20:25.436 I think just think it's important for people to realize 0:20:25.476 --> 0:20:27.316 there are a lot of resources out out there. I 0:20:27.356 --> 0:20:31.036 was recently working with the AARP Foundation and United Health 0:20:31.676 --> 0:20:34.636 and they have this website that has an incredible amount 0:20:34.636 --> 0:20:40.196 of helpful information. It's connect to Effect. It's the number 0:20:40.196 --> 0:20:45.476 two and affect with an a dot org. And you know, 0:20:45.516 --> 0:20:47.996 you can you can take some surveys and see if 0:20:47.996 --> 0:20:52.236 you're susceptible to any types of depression and anxiety. Because 0:20:52.236 --> 0:20:55.716 this is a public health crisis. I mean, the people 0:20:55.796 --> 0:20:59.436 that are having depression as a result of isolation is 0:21:00.076 --> 0:21:02.636 really a public health crisis like the you know, not 0:21:02.716 --> 0:21:06.876 as severe as a pandemic obviously, but still not insignificant. 0:21:06.916 --> 0:21:09.676 So and you can also find help in your community, 0:21:09.956 --> 0:21:14.396 in the area that you live if you're experiencing stress 0:21:14.396 --> 0:21:16.676 and depression and anxiety. So I encourage people to go 0:21:16.716 --> 0:21:20.436 out there and find that information. Scott, we like to 0:21:21.076 --> 0:21:24.076 wind up the show by asking what are some things 0:21:24.116 --> 0:21:27.836 our listeners can do? You know, I wonder what you 0:21:27.836 --> 0:21:31.036 would suggest to people in terms of resources for dealing 0:21:31.036 --> 0:21:35.276 with it themselves, but also in terms of understanding the 0:21:35.316 --> 0:21:40.556 problem of anxiety and depression that comes so often with isolation. 0:21:41.116 --> 0:21:44.276 You know, other resources now I think are out there 0:21:44.396 --> 0:21:48.036 that can, maybe, you know, help people find inspiration in 0:21:48.076 --> 0:21:51.396 their lives. If not, you know Alfred Lansing's Endurance, maybe 0:21:51.436 --> 0:21:55.516 my book Endurance. I'm not trying to do a shameless 0:21:55.516 --> 0:21:58.596 plug here, but I think my story, you know, is 0:21:58.636 --> 0:22:04.196 one of just never giving up and how you can, 0:22:04.396 --> 0:22:09.916 with some inspiration, realize your dreams and hopefully it inspires 0:22:08.836 --> 0:22:13.476 people and can inspire people to get through this situation 0:22:13.556 --> 0:22:15.836 that we're currently And I also have a course that's 0:22:15.836 --> 0:22:21.476 coming out Unknowable. Knowable's a kind of Spotify for learning 0:22:21.636 --> 0:22:24.636 where you can sign up and listen to all these classes. 0:22:25.236 --> 0:22:27.116 You know, there's a lot of resources out there, and 0:22:28.316 --> 0:22:32.276 you know, I encourage people to seek them out and 0:22:32.756 --> 0:22:36.316 help us get through this pandemic we're in with as 0:22:36.396 --> 0:22:39.316 much energy and enthusiasm at the end as we had 0:22:39.316 --> 0:22:45.756 in the beginning. Retired NASA astronauts Scott Kelly logged more 0:22:45.796 --> 0:22:49.276 than five hundred and twenty total days in space. He 0:22:49.396 --> 0:22:53.636 served as a flight engineer, Space Shuttle pilot, and mission commander, 0:22:53.716 --> 0:22:56.996 among other roles. Be sure to check out our show 0:22:56.996 --> 0:23:00.276 notes for suggestions Scott Kelly shared for ways to find 0:23:00.316 --> 0:23:04.356 support during this difficult time, and if you're struggling with depression, 0:23:04.396 --> 0:23:08.396 there's help available. You can call the Suicide Prevention Hotline 0:23:08.676 --> 0:23:13.916 at one hundred two seven three eight two five five anytime, 0:23:13.996 --> 0:23:17.476 day or night. Solvable is off next week for Thanksgiving. 0:23:17.716 --> 0:23:21.556 We're thankful to you for listening. Please consider leaving us 0:23:21.596 --> 0:23:24.516 a review and sharing an episode of Solvable with a 0:23:24.556 --> 0:23:28.556 friend or family member. This season, Solvable is brought to 0:23:28.556 --> 0:23:32.396 you by Pushkin Industries. Our show is produced by Camille Baptista. 0:23:32.876 --> 0:23:37.276 Our senior producer is Jocelyn Frank. Catherine Gardo is our 0:23:37.356 --> 0:23:42.116 managing producer, and our executive producer is Mia Loebell. Special 0:23:42.116 --> 0:23:46.396 thanks to Kobe Guildford, Heather Faine, Eric Sandler, Carly Migliori, 0:23:46.636 --> 0:23:49.636 and Kadisha Hollad. I'm Jacob Weisberg.