WEBVTT - Teri Weinberg 0:00:05.559 --> 0:00:08.639 Hi, I'm Terry Weinberg and I am the executive producer 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:21.600 of the Office. Hello everyone, and welcome to you guessed 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:26.680 it the Office deep Dive. I am your host Brian Baumgartner. 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:29.440 But I bet you guessed that too, because you are 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:37.880 all very smart, as is my wonderful guest today, Terry Weinberg. 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:42.760 That was a transition. Now, Terry was an executive producer 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:47.720 of the Office and a longtime partner of Ben Silverman, 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:53.080 which truly makes her a saint, let's be honest, uh, 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:56.600 But she was definitely there from the very beginning in 0:00:56.720 --> 0:01:00.240 the room where it happened, as they say, the whom, 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:04.360 where they grew the Office from a tiny seed of 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:09.720 an idea into the crazy popular show that it is today. Um, 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:13.800 as you will hear all about momentarily, Terry was involved 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:17.560 from day one in the casting and and really the 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:21.560 creation of the show. But what's even more fascinating to 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.440 me is that in the later years of the show, 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:28.320 Terry jumped over to work on the network side at NBC, 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:31.400 so she saw things from the inside and then also 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:34.679 from the network side and how the network was dealing 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:37.800 with the show. She has a really unique perspective on 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:43.160 the whole story of the Office, and this conversation kicks 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:48.160 off another mini series that we're doing, highlighting just some 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:54.720 of the many talented, hilarious, super smart women who made 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:57.120 the Office what it is, both in front of the 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:00.960 camera and behind the scenes. This is a great bunch 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:03.680 of interviews, if I do say so myself, So I am. 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:06.360 I'm really excited to share them all with you. So 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:16.079 let's get started, shall we today with Terry Weinberg Bubble 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:23.200 and Squeak. I love it Bubble and Squeak on Bubble 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:27.080 and Squeaker cooking at every moment, lift over from the 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:40.320 nut Pole. You know, a lot of the cast I 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:44.359 will say, like, we do really still, you know, keep 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:50.120 in touch, Like our fantasy football league is still going 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:53.440 like fifteen years later. So John and Rain and me 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:57.400 and some of the crew guys, and good luck with 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:01.320 that this year exactly. But Oscar and Angela and I 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:03.720 and you know, Rain and I and John. And that's 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:05.960 part of the thing too about this COVID business is 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:08.920 that people are reaching out more. You know, my birthday 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:12.520 was on Monday, and I spent the entire day and Zooms, 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:16.960 I mean the entire day, you know, but people you 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:20.600 you're learning two things. One we're working harder to stay 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:23.720 connected with people, and then you're also learning who wants 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:27.639 to stay connected to you? You know. Yea Father's Day 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:30.960 I heard from people like Father's Day, Like what nobody 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:33.880 ever reaches that? Why are you? I'm not your father? 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:39.280 Like everyone's reaching out. I don't know. That's been really great. Okay, 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:46.040 So you were so omnipresent through all of the beginning. 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:47.840 So if you go all the way back now is 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:52.080 nineteen years ago, how did you meet Ben? When did 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:54.400 you start working for Reveling? What was the transition there? 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:59.080 I'm at Ben in two thousands. I had two roommates 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:02.280 at the time. One of my roommates, who Ben had 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:04.960 known for some time, who I think date he dated 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:11.080 for one second, introduced him to our other roommate. Now 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:15.800 Ben was still working at William Morris, I think he 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:18.320 was still in London, and he would fly out to 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:20.919 l A and he would be out here every month 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:22.560 and he would stay for you know, a couple of 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:26.720 weeks whatever. So she introduced one roommate, introduces him to 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:32.080 the other. They start dating. In true Ben fashion, he 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:34.359 used to stay at the Lermitage I think it was 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:36.920 for three weeks at a time. Either she would stay 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:40.560 at the Lermitage with him or he would stay and 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:43.360 our duplex. And so I started to see him a 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:48.240 lot and got to know him just socially. And at 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:51.159 that point my roommate that he was dating and me, 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:53.839 I just left I c M and we started a 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:57.360 skincare company. I would be up all day, all night 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:01.880 making all these skincare products in my kitchen and I 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:04.000 was talking about about, you know what my experience was 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:05.560 at I c M and whatever. We just got to 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:10.159 know each other really well. And it was in March 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:15.520 I think of two thousand one. He pulled an all 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:19.680 nighter I think at the Oscars, came home. I'm up 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:21.520 at four or five in the morning making these things. 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:27.880 He comes walking in in his Oswald Botang purple suit, right, 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:32.520 and um, we just started talking. He said, you know what, 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:35.440 I'm gonna start my own production company. I've been bringing 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:38.719 formats in to the States, and I really just want 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:42.160 to have more of a creative experience. I want to 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:45.040 be a producer. And when I do that, I want 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:48.360 you to go work for me. And I said, okay, well, 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:50.240 I have no idea what you're talking about. But okay, 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:53.120 Ben talked to me next year because I didn't take 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:56.080 him seriously, but he kept bringing up and he always 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:58.320 said to me, you know, I really appreciate your work ethic. 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:00.279 I like the experience that you have. I have no 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:02.240 idea what you'd be doing yet, but I know that 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:03.720 I need you to be a part of my company. 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:07.359 So cut to that next year where he made the 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:10.239 deal with the vend Universal was Barry Diller at the time, 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:16.000 and he brought Howard Owens, Mark Coops, and Chris Grant 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:18.760 from New York. They were all still in New York, 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:22.440 and he said, I'm bringing these three guys. Didn't know them. 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:27.240 We have a bungalow at Universal. So I want you 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:30.920 to go and set at the office and I meet 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:36.400 a house, Go find me a house. This is no 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:42.520 surprise at all, and we will be there in two 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:45.320 months or something like that. So what do I do. 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:48.760 I go on the lot. I get the whole entire 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:51.840 bungalow up ready to go. All they had to do 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:54.800 was walk in and pick up a pen and go 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:59.200 to work phones everything. I'm navigated my way through the 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:04.000 entire Universal, every department you could possibly imagine anyway they 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:07.080 come out and we all just learned how to produce, 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:09.360 just the five of us. You would have thought that 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:13.200 a hundred people worked at that production company, and it 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:19.320 was us five and so Ben, Mark and Howard. You know, 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:22.480 we're focusing mostly on international. You know, we had Nashville 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:26.280 Star I think was being developed, and Biggest Loser just 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:29.000 kind of you know, looking at formats and kind of 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:30.880 touching on what that stuff was going to be, which 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:34.720 I really didn't have any interest in. And we had 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:38.360 the Format two Coupling. That was our first show that 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:42.200 we started to produce in scripted television, and so I 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:44.280 just kind of cut my teeth in that process. I 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:46.320 would just sit in the corner, you know, in a 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:49.120 room and listen to, you know, the conversations, and I 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:52.520 went to every I did everything with Ben. I went everywhere. 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:55.400 I was on every phone, call you everything that you 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:58.240 could possibly imagine. That's really how I learned is listening 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:01.880 to executives, listening to studios, listening to creative people. I 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:05.200 certainly had a deep familiarity with script because that's how 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:07.360 I was raised. A I C. M. And then I 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:11.720 just each day I just kept immersing myself deeper and 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:14.520 deeper in that process, and that's really how I built 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:19.000 the scripted department at REVLI. What did you learn from 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:24.200 your experience on Coupling that you felt like impacted bringing 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:28.160 the office over? We learned a couple of things. One, 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:30.760 you know, there was so much pressure on that show 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:34.040 because it was being coined the Next Friends, and we 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:37.480 realized that, oh, ship, that's a big problem because people 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:39.480 are going to have an expectation that we are trying 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:42.080 to be the next Friends, which we had no intention 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:45.360 of being. So learning about how critical marketing is of 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:50.480 a show, and also we pretty much adhered to every 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:54.800 script from the British version instead of kind of making 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:59.240 it our own, and so we also learned that that 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:03.120 stuff doesn't necessarily translate. So I think we learned that 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:06.240 going into that process we needed to have a voice. 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:08.320 We needed to have somebody come in that, you know, 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:12.600 understood the rhythms and the uniqueness of what that show was, 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:16.079 but had to bring in their own voice and make 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:20.120 it their own right. Stephen actually said to me that 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:23.319 he felt like his greatest contribution was actually and one 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:26.720 thing he said to Ricky was stepped back, like they 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:31.120 know culturally about what's happening in America or rhythms or 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:34.360 specific sensibilities or whatever. So the more we can stay 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:37.840 out of it, the better. I Mean, the most beautiful 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:42.280 thing about what Ricky and Stephen did was exactly that 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:47.160 they came over, met the cast, spent time with Greg 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:51.280 and just talked about the things that we really cared about. 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:55.120 How did you create these characters? What made you want 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:57.040 to be in this world? How did these rhythms, like 0:09:57.120 --> 0:10:00.640 all of the things that we're more important. Instead of 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:03.720 tell us exactly how you, you know, get this shot 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:06.640 or whatever, it was really more about all the impetus 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:10.840 is on creating the show. And then they were the 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:14.440 most incredible cheerleaders one could ever have. I mean, they 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:19.000 were absolutely dream partners, and they literally just sat back 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:22.640 and like fans, fell in love with the show. And 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:25.800 I'll never forget, and I'm sure you'll remember. I mean, 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:29.040 I was kind of a blur, but when we won 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:31.320 the Emmy and we were all up on the stage 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:35.800 and Greg reached out and said, Ricky and Stephen, I 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:39.160 know you're out there somewhere, you know, because of you, 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:42.480 you're brilliantly I can't remember exactly what he said, And 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:46.040 then I remembered watching the telecast back and Ricky and 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:50.160 Stephen they were so proud but got so shy and 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:53.320 didn't want to take any of the credit for it. 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:57.240 It was beautiful, and they never had egos about it 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:00.920 to say, this is our thing and we're lending it 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:04.640 to you. This is our thing, and we're giving this 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:07.600 to you and we're trusting you to go and do 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:11.880 your own thing. Yeah. So, at what point in the 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:16.600 process when you were working with REVELI did you become 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:20.480 aware of the office, the British Office. I mean it 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:22.840 had to be in the beginning, because Ben had the rights, 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:28.840 he had already secured them. And I remembered Ben showing 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:30.640 it to me and said, look at this and tell 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:33.240 me what you think. And I remembered watching and said, 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:35.360 oh my god, I have to we have to do this. 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:37.280 I don't know what the funk we're doing, but we 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:42.080 have to do this. I was absolutely obsessed so very 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:45.120 early on. And then then we put the time into, 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:49.480 you know, try to find the right voice. And in 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:54.040 the conversations that Bennett had with Ari, Greg's name obviously 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:55.720 came up, and I'm sure he probably told you this, 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:58.000 but he just would not watch it. I mean I 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:01.160 think he sat on it for three weeks or something 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:03.760 like that. And then finally Ben was talking to Ari 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:06.240 and said, is this guy that ever you know watched this? 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:08.280 And I think already said the same thing to Greg, 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:12.000 are you gonna watch this? You know, because they're going 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:15.280 to move on? And then Greg, I think watched it 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:17.400 over that weekend and came back and said, oh my god, 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:19.480 I hope to god they didn't move on because I 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:22.719 have to do this. Yeah, that's awesome. What was your 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:29.640 initial impression of him? Introvert, brilliant, one of the nicest 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:34.880 people I've ever met, collaborative, open, you know, and welcome, 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:40.600 didn't bring any ego, respected us and me even I 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:42.560 don't know if he knew how much I'd ever you know, 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:48.200 produced in my life, and immediately just treated us like 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:52.200 his partners. I fell in love with them immediately and thought, 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:53.839 my god, how do we get so lucky? This man 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:59.559 is just brilliant, you know, Greg, He's thoughtful, he's tactile, 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:02.520 and his hands like he thinks before he you know, 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:06.400 there's a lot ruminating in here before he would share 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:09.720 an idea, but he was incredibly thoughtful and very very 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:13.360 respectful of the format and of Ricky and Stephen, and 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:16.000 cautious because we all knew we were stepping in a 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:19.000 gigantic pile of are you guys kidding me that you're 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:22.120 actually going to attempt to do this? So yeah, I 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:25.280 just I only have the most and still the fondest 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:30.600 memories of Greg. Was there anybody else that you feel 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:35.400 like you seriously considered or was Greg at Greg? Was it? 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:40.920 Ricky and Stephen told me both separately that what sold 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:44.640 them was that Greg saw it as a love story. Yeah, 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:47.120 it was a It was a love story. Was about humanity, 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:51.320 it was about human behavior, It was all about people. 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:54.920 It was all about heart. The thing that we can 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:58.240 all relate to is that, in some form or fashion, 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:02.840 we've been in a work place where you're not necessarily 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:04.920 happy about the work that you're doing, but you fall 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.160 in love with the people. It's love and hate relationship. 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:11.040 They become family, they become you know, you see them 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:14.360 more typically in your life than you do your family members. 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:18.800 And so it really was about the love that's created, 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:42.440 you know, in a workplace. For sure, you were in 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:45.640 the room for the majority of not all of the 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:49.680 casting sessions. Was there anyone who walked in right away 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:54.080 that was ultimately cast that you went, that's the person 0:14:55.600 --> 0:15:00.000 John Steve. But Steve is a different story. He didn't 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:04.000 really audition. Um you know, it was a really interesting 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:07.120 audition process because I don't think any one of us 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:10.000 had ever really kind of been through anything like that before. 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:14.120 Because actors would come in and read a scene and 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:17.000 then they would improv, you know, and Greg would throw 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:21.000 ridiculous little lines out and say, go tell me you 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:24.120 just got into the refrigerator this morning, you know, or 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:28.080 just these really kind of weird random things. And we 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:34.000 saw so many actors, you know, Greg, myself, Ken Howard, Ben, 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:37.920 you know, Allison and um Phillis would be in the 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:41.800 conference room at REVELI for eight or ten hours a 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:46.640 day just and it was just a constant. And Alison, 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:50.600 she had such a deep knowledge of you know, stand 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:54.800 ups and second cities and groundlings and people that we've 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:58.320 never seen before. And so there were so many people 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:00.520 that were so interesting to us. I think is we 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:03.800 whittled things down and it became all of you. We 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:07.600 knew it was all of you, because everybody didn't fit 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:09.800 the mold that we were looking for, but they brought 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:13.320 something special and beautiful. It was like making a puzzle. 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:18.960 Everybody just fit in so beautifully for you know, Jim 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:22.520 and Pam and Dwight, etcetera. Talk to me a little 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:26.400 bit about doing screen tests, filming them in the office 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.760 as opposed to doing regular studio and network tests. How 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:32.520 rare was that at that time we were the first, 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:36.840 if I remember correctly, And the reason was very It 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:40.080 was selfish on our part because a we thought, they 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:43.280 will never make this show if two actors, you know, 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:45.840 because at that time, actors used to walk into the 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:51.040 president's office and there would be twenty people behind the 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:54.280 president and two people would be asked to perform a 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:58.240 scene or something with all these eyeballs on them, and 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:01.240 it was the most unnatural process anybody could ever imagine. 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:04.040 And then I remember when I went to NBC and 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:06.879 became a programmer and we were asking people to do that. 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:08.520 I said, I don't want to I don't want to 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:10.480 do that. I want to put people on tape because 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:14.760 it doesn't you don't get the real person because they're 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:18.440 so busy performing for a room. And so so yeah, 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:19.879 I think we were the first of its kind, and 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:22.919 I think because of that, it started to kind of 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:26.200 shift the way people were auditioning. Do you remember Phillis 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:30.719 of course, no, I mean reading, and of course anything 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:35.440 about the discussion around casting her, yes, I mean part 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:39.520 of the process was either she would run the camera 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:42.960 or Allison would run the camera, and then if Allison 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:46.639 didn't feel like reading, Phillis would read. And then Phillis 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:50.159 started reading more and more. And I don't remember if 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:53.800 it was Ken that said it first or Greg but said, 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:56.160 oh my god, she has to be in the show. 0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:01.399 She's so funny, and we all said, oh my hud, yes, 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.440 And I remembered us asking Allison, how do you feel 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:09.320 about if we steal Phillis? And she said, oh my god, 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:13.719 you know, yes, you know, take her. And I remember 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:16.600 us telling her and it was it was pretty amazing. 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:20.719 What do you remember so thinking about the Office and 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:23.240 what that show was, the style to no laugh track, 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:27.320 all that, what was the landscape of television that that 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:30.560 show was born into, Like what was popular what was 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:36.960 done on broadcast TV at that time? Seinfeld cheers all 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:41.960 of the seminal comedies that were so smart. But the 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:45.240 thing about that time, as I remember is that ratings 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:48.400 were everything. Eighteen to thirty four was everything. You had 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:52.600 to have, you know, a twenty share or something. So 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:55.760 having you know, five million people or six million people 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:58.560 watching your show is just a non starter. You know, 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:03.040 it had to be twenty million. And our audience was very, 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:05.879 very concentrated in the eighteen to thirty four and it 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:10.840 was very K plus, but it was small. And so 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:13.720 that's the challenge was how do we keep ourselves on 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:17.320 the air when A the pilot tested worse than I 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:20.879 think any other pilot had ever tested on NBC. Besides, 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:27.280 I think Seinfeld didn't test well either, and uh, you know, 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:29.880 we only had six episodes to prove ourselves, and we 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:34.240 were kind of at that time also scheduled in kind 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:38.280 of the okay, you're dead. It was in March, and 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:41.800 that's when people said, well, wire shows starting to air 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:46.800 after the you know, prime time fall in mid season shows, 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:48.359 and so we kind of felt like they were just 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:53.080 getting rid of us. So the pilot bombed when it 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:57.800 was tested. Were you concerned about that, yes, because it 0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:01.359 was you know at that time, if something tests really bad, 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:05.359 it's d o A, you know, and if it's not 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:08.480 d O A good luck trying to convince your network 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:11.840 that it's a pilot that they should bet on. And 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:16.600 so if not for Kevin Riley, this show would not 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:19.640 have a life. I really do believe that he put 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:24.119 his career on the line. So yeah, we're very concerned, 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:26.600 and I think it's part of the reason why it 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:28.760 tested so poorly. It's just because it was something that 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:33.040 people have never seen before. And those groups that come 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:37.560 in to do the testing, you know, they get paid 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:40.119 seventy five or fifty dollars or whatever, and then they 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:43.919 judge your material based on twenty minutes of something and 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:48.000 tell you if it's good or it's bad. That was 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:52.000 a real learning experience for me and something that I thought, 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:55.679 God if I could And I think when Ben and 0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:58.399 I went to NBC, we didn't care so much about testing. 0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:01.160 We cared more about instinct. We cared about the shows 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:04.040 that we loved and wanted a program So I think 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:06.359 that came into a full circle as we went from 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:12.600 producer to programmer. That testing serves a certain purpose, but 0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:15.119 it shouldn't be the be all hand all of the 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:18.040 success of something. Right. Well, speaking of that, how did 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:23.320 your relationship to the office change when you moved to NBC. 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:27.639 The only thing that changed was that I could be 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:31.520 an even larger advocate for it inside the network. Not 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:34.439 that I needed to be, because at that point, you know, 0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:38.080 we were we were just a well oiled machine. You know. 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:42.320 It was interesting because then I became Greg's executive and 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:46.440 to switch from being partner and fighting for certain things 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:50.800 over here and now being you know, I had programmer, 0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:52.800 having to fight for certain things that I knew were 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:56.639 in the best interest of the network without interfering with 0:21:56.680 --> 0:21:59.000 the integrity of the show. And here's a perfect example. 0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:02.320 We want The Office to to air after the super Bowl, 0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:07.720 and um, we needed to make sure that if whoever 0:22:07.840 --> 0:22:10.399 was watching the super Bowl had never seen The Office before, 0:22:10.920 --> 0:22:14.760 that we had to do something completely outrageous to let 0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:17.200 people say, oh my god, I have never seen this show. 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:22.280 I love this, I'm staying And Greg had pitched a 0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:28.040 cold open, and I remembered saying, you know, this is 0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:32.640 kind of cool, but getting a little pressure from Jeff, 0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:35.199 you know, and Ben to make sure that we have 0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:38.440 some celebrities in there. And you know, we never had 0:22:38.440 --> 0:22:42.040 celebrities on our show. It was always about, you know, 0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:44.280 making sure that it felt like we were dropping into 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:50.800 a world of just human beings, and in Greg's brilliant fashion, 0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:54.439 found a way to bring in celebrities without having the 0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:57.320 celebrities feel like they were really a part of the office. 0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:01.760 And I challenged him to do the most outrageous cold 0:23:01.800 --> 0:23:05.400 open that he could, you know, if people were only 0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:07.399 going to see the first minute and a half of 0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:11.800 the show. So it was having to you know, maneuver 0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:15.040 a little bit differently as becoming a kind of network 0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:21.480 person as opposed to his partner on the show. That's fascinating. Yeah, 0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:25.560 I never put it within that context that at that moment, 0:23:26.560 --> 0:23:30.919 the people that he was having to do this push 0:23:30.920 --> 0:23:35.560 and pull for that episode was you guys. I was 0:23:35.600 --> 0:23:38.840 the person that would call the network for Greg or 0:23:38.880 --> 0:23:41.640 the studio and say he's not doing that, or we're 0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:45.280 not changing this or you know, because he did not 0:23:45.720 --> 0:23:49.080 like those confrontational moments. And I always said, you want confrontation, 0:23:49.320 --> 0:23:51.920 just bring it over to Mama and I'll take care 0:23:51.920 --> 0:23:55.240 of it. Now I'm the person on the other end 0:23:55.280 --> 0:23:59.040 of the phone getting, you know, well, we want to 0:23:59.040 --> 0:24:00.520 do this, we need to do that, uh, you know, 0:24:00.640 --> 0:24:06.600 and and giving notes you know, on scripts was crazy, 0:24:07.040 --> 0:24:09.320 but it wasn't it was. You know, my instincts didn't 0:24:09.400 --> 0:24:13.240 change because I always knew that he was way smarter 0:24:13.320 --> 0:24:15.000 than me, and I would, you know, I could only 0:24:15.720 --> 0:24:18.080 you know, the one thing that Greg said to me 0:24:18.720 --> 0:24:21.040 way back in the beginning when we first started this 0:24:21.080 --> 0:24:24.880 relationship and he started developing the show, was what's most 0:24:24.960 --> 0:24:27.639 important to me is that you tell me how you feel. 0:24:28.280 --> 0:24:30.440 How does the episode make you feel? How did the 0:24:30.520 --> 0:24:33.879 relationships of the characters in this episode make you feel? 0:24:34.640 --> 0:24:36.560 You know, do you feel moved enough? Do you feel 0:24:36.600 --> 0:24:39.200 motivated enough? Do you feel And so I would look 0:24:39.200 --> 0:24:41.480 at the scripts and just think about how did it 0:24:41.520 --> 0:24:44.080 make me feel. I didn't look at it and say, well, 0:24:44.119 --> 0:24:47.439 the structure isn't so much blah la lah. It is 0:24:47.480 --> 0:24:52.960 about are we accomplishing this really quiet moment between Jim 0:24:53.000 --> 0:24:55.480 and Pam? Is there something going on with the accountants 0:24:55.480 --> 0:24:58.960 in the in the corner that we're peeking in on, 0:24:59.720 --> 0:25:01.520 you know, with the rest of the offices and seeing 0:25:01.800 --> 0:25:04.879