1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of I Heart Radio. We 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 1: start tonight with a man hunt in Tulsa, a murder 3 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: suspect considered armed and dangerous. That victim died this morning, 4 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: and we hear from a witness who says she tried 5 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:20,240 Speaker 1: to save his life. The tornado warnings have expired, thankfully, 6 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 1: but left behind plenty of flooding in the area. Look 7 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: at that impact. That's Stephen Romo, a thirty three year 8 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 1: old TV news anchor based in Houston, Texas. To look 9 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 1: at Stephen is to see a dapper young man, handsome, 10 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: clean cut, as they say, often wearing a jacket and 11 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:44,200 Speaker 1: tie or a neatly pressed collared shirt. He's well put together, 12 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: in consummate control. But, as is so often true, what 13 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: we see tells us only part of the story. We 14 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: easily judge others based on appearances are our own fantasies 15 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: of what someone's life must be like. In Steven's case, 16 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: you might think he had a traditional, comfortable, simple childhood, 17 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: and you would be wrong. I'm Danny Shapiro, and this 18 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: is Family Secrets. The secrets that are kept from us, 19 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: the secrets we keep from others, and the secrets we 20 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: keep from ourselves. I grew up in the late eighties 21 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: in a suburb just to the south of Dallas, and 22 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: I had an older brothers three years older than me. 23 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 1: My dad wasn't still is a big rig driver. My 24 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: mom was a stay at home mom at the time. 25 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: And growing up, I hear a lot of people say 26 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: they didn't realize that their family wasn't normal until they 27 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: were older, but that wasn't true for me. I realized 28 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: very early on that my family was not quite typical. 29 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 1: Through watching TV and just visiting neighbors. I realized that 30 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: my home life was something to hide. It was a secret. 31 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 1: It was something that I was ashamed of. One of 32 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: my first memories is standing on a kitchen drawer that 33 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: I used to pull out so I could reach the 34 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,519 Speaker 1: counter and grabbing a jar of peanut butter and looking 35 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:35,359 Speaker 1: inside and just seeing it was full of roaches scurrying 36 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 1: over each other and dropping it and letting it roll away, 37 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: and that is that's one of my first memories. And 38 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: I knew that wasn't normal. I was disgusted by it 39 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: and angry at my parents for it, but I knew 40 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: it wasn't normal. So that was the situation in our 41 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: home for a long time, but my mom and my 42 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: dad went bankrupt and the bank foreclosed in our house, 43 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 1: so we had to move into the home of my 44 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: great uncle, my mom's uncle, and it was a duplex. 45 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 1: It's sort of out of nowhere. My mom decided that 46 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: we needed to get dogs. It was like a necessity, 47 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: she mentioned, so we would know if anyone was going 48 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: to break into the home. It started off with to 49 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: Chihuaha's and they had their own family, and it was 50 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: six chihuahuas at one point. It was it was really 51 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: hard to keep up, so we gave them away and 52 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: we collected others we always had heard of, mostly chouaa's. 53 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: It's funny too, because you think about what one might 54 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: think of as a guard dog, and you don't immediate 55 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: You don't immediately go to chihuahua. Yes, I yeah, it 56 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: doesn't make a ton of since they did. I mean, 57 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: we always knew anyone was anywhere close to our house 58 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: because they yapped and I don't even want to call 59 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: it a park. It was just yap NonStop. And I 60 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: love those dogs so much. I feel like my childhood 61 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: would have been much more empty without them. That they 62 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: dogs just accept you and and love you and to 63 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: get excited when you come home. And I didn't necessarily 64 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: get that from my parents. But at the same time, 65 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: they were the source of so much consternation. They never 66 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 1: went outside. They just the carpet was their bathroom. Eventually 67 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: we had to rip up the carpet because it was 68 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: so you're in stained, and that just made the roaches 69 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 1: seem like nothing to have to deal with that. The 70 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: roaches were just just a slight distraction compared to them. 71 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: Did your great uncle know what was going on in 72 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 1: the other part of the duplex? And did did he 73 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: have any response to any of that? Strangely, no, he 74 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 1: didn't have much of a response. That His presence was 75 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: always a sort of a few for my mom, and 76 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: I didn't understand why. For a long time he had 77 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: a key to the house. Obviously, and sometimes we would 78 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: come home and my mom would tell my dad that 79 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 1: she could smell my great uncle's cologne and that set 80 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: her off into I don't want to say hysterics. That 81 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 1: sounds extreme, but she was deeply bothered by it. And 82 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: of course that made sense later on, but at the 83 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 1: time it didn't. It also didn't make sense why he 84 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 1: would see the way the house was and not be 85 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: livid that we were destroying that house. My brother Um 86 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: started punching holes in the walls when he was about 87 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: thirteen and ripping the doors. Were cheap plywood or particle 88 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: would doors and he would tear them down. Eventually we 89 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: had no doors in the house and there were giant 90 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: holes in the walls. And my great uncle saw this 91 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: and never said anything about it. We saw him at 92 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: family gatherings, there was never any mention of it, which 93 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: was bizarre to me, and it stood out even though 94 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: I couldn't really put together why until later on. Why 95 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: was your brother Why do you think he was punching 96 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: holes in the walls? I think he was angry at 97 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: our home situation too, and my parents just we just 98 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: sort of were on our own, handling things in our 99 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 1: own way. And my dad is a is a smaller guy. 100 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: He's about five six and my brother and I I'm 101 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: six ft tall, and i've been I've been taller than 102 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: my dad. I think I was about fourteen. It was 103 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: the same thing for my brother, so he could control 104 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: us fine when we were smaller than him, but as 105 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: soon as we got bigger, it was just Um you know, 106 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 1: do whatever you want. You're on your own, So sort 107 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 1: of like that for my brother, and he expressed his 108 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: anger by destroying our house, destroying our walls. Well, it's 109 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: so interesting because it sounds like your house was sort 110 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: of being destroyed anyway, So you know, how could the 111 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: anti be uped in some way? That's true. One of 112 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: the things that I always find so interesting in thinking 113 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: about family secrets is when it seems like a couple 114 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: develop or conspire to keep something hidden or secret together. 115 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: Does it begin with one of them or is it 116 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: sort of something that grows with both of them. Did 117 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: it start with your mom or your dad or was 118 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: it something that wouldn't have happened if each of them 119 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: had been with somebody else, but it happened because they 120 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: were together. I thought a lot about it, and I 121 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: really do think that it is they were just sort 122 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: of the perfect storm together to make this environment happen. 123 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: I think if either of them had been with another partner, 124 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: I don't see how this it could have happened. My dad, 125 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: he's the eighth of nine children, and his mother died 126 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: when he was twelve years old, so his home life 127 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: was very erratic. He was mostly raised by his older siblings. 128 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: My dad is Hispanic, and some of his older siblings 129 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: and his father spoke Spanish, and he barely speaks Spanish. 130 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: They literally spoke different languages. He was on his own 131 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: a lot as a child. My mother was raised by 132 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: her grandmother and her mother after her parents divorced, and 133 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: she never felt loved. What I was mentioning about the 134 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: great uncle I found out later from my mother and 135 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: she sort of tearfully admitted to me when I was fourteen, 136 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: admitted to me as if it were her something that 137 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: she had done wrong. She told me that that great 138 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: uncle had sexually abused her, starting when she was nine 139 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: years old. While my aunt was watching my mom. He 140 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: would come home on his lunch breaks and she would 141 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,319 Speaker 1: be pretending to be asleep often and he would wake 142 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:16,079 Speaker 1: her up and take her to a different part of 143 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: the house and abuse her. A lot of stuff clicked 144 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: into place because of that, why she was the way 145 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: she was. Did something precipitate her telling you at this 146 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: point when she told you you had been living in 147 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: that great uncle's house for some period of time, yes, yes, 148 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: for a few years. At that point. What I think 149 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: precipitated it? I was complaining a lot more. I had started. 150 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: I had a younger sister, she's four years younger than me, 151 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: and I started telling my mom that I was going 152 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:57,079 Speaker 1: to call child protective Services if we didn't move, and 153 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: I was a smartass. Just to be frank about it. 154 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: I couldn't go along with it anymore. I um. I 155 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: would say things like, you feed the roaches better than 156 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: you feed your own kids. And I was just a 157 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: constant critic of my father too. He was gone a lot, 158 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: but when he was there. Name calling was a huge 159 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: issue in my house. My parents called me names, I 160 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: called my parents names. It was just a thing that happened. 161 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: Right before my mom revealed that to me, I decided 162 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 1: my dad wasn't going to call me names anymore. The 163 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: word at the time was faggot that he kept calling me. 164 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: Excuse the use of the word that I hate, but 165 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: it was that word. I decided it was never going 166 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: to happen again. So I sort of charged at him 167 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: and you know, looked down at him because he was 168 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: so much smaller than me, and told him that he 169 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: was not going to call me that word ever again. 170 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: And he shoved me, and I shoved him back and 171 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: knocked him down and he walked away, and that was 172 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: the end of that. My mom, she would have been 173 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: at a grocery store. She got home and my dad 174 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: told her what happened, and she came into my room crying, 175 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: and instead of talking about that fight at all, she 176 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: sort of abruptly told me about the sexual abuse with 177 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: her uncle. I've got the impression at the time she 178 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: was telling me, sort of to say that she had 179 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: enough going on, that we were living in his house 180 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 1: and she was going through enough turmoil that she just 181 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: wanted me to just stop being so obstructionist and arguing 182 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:44,319 Speaker 1: and disagreeing with them. I think that's why she revealed 183 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: it to me. Did she ever draw any kind of 184 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: connection from her having been abused as a child to 185 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: the way that she kept her home as an adult, 186 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: Oh no, not at all. So it was really it 187 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: was unconscious. I definitely think it was unconscious. She my 188 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: parents both would blame us, the kids and the dogs, 189 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: thing we didn't help, and we took food in our 190 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: rooms and in all these sort of lame excuses that 191 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: I never believed. But she, no, it was never conscious. 192 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 1: I don't think that that's what she was doing. We'll 193 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: be back in a moment with more family secrets. Stephen 194 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: goes to school dressed in mismatched clothes, dirty clothes, and 195 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: sometimes the roaches hitch a ride in his backpack crawl 196 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: out of his lunchbox. Other kids notice, of course, but 197 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: Stephen invents stories around why that's the case. I was 198 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: just a liar, and I thought I was really good 199 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: at it. But now looking back, it just seems ridiculous 200 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 1: the stuff I would say, But it was anything too 201 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: disconnect me from the way I was growing up. I 202 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: watched so much TV as a kid, uninterrupted hours upon 203 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: hours of TV any and everything. We didn't have cable, 204 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: so it's just what I could get on the antenna. 205 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: But because of that, I invented so many stories that 206 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: were just completely made up about trips to Europe and 207 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 1: stuff that would have never happened in a million years 208 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,959 Speaker 1: with enough detail. I thought that I was completely tricking 209 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: all these kids to think that I was actually like 210 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 1: one of them, or just wealthy. And I was made 211 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: to dress poor because my parents wanted to keep me humble. 212 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: Just just ridiculous stories that I made up just to 213 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 1: try to defend myself, and I was made fun of 214 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: of course, because that's what happens when you're a kid. 215 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 1: But I really feel like the kids were easier on 216 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: me than they could have been. I could have had 217 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: it much worse than I did. You know, it's interesting 218 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: the whole idea of education through TV, you know, and 219 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: and through reading as well, and the way in which 220 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: I mean so often on this podcast I think about 221 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: my guests stories and the way that if the story 222 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: had been playing out during a time when the Internet existed, 223 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: where there was so much readily available information, you could 224 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: look something up, you could call it by its name, 225 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: you could find out what it was, you could connect 226 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: with other people who might be going through something similar. 227 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: And there are things that are not so great about that, 228 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: but there's so many things that are that really pierced 229 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: people's sense of isolation. Whereas when you were growing up 230 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: that didn't exist, and so your education was Mr. Rogers neighborhood. 231 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: That's such a ordered, gentle kind place, a place where 232 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: there would never be a cockroach, a place where there 233 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: would never be anything out of place or out of order. 234 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: Did you find all of that? It was like sort 235 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: of part of your coming of age. Absolutely, I can't 236 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: imagine what my childhood would have been like without television. 237 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: It's how I knew that the way I was living 238 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: was unacceptable and would made me start as a young 239 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: child trying to fight against it, trying to force my 240 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: parents to allow us to move. Was just from the 241 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: story that I saw on TV. They made me feel 242 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: less lonely. I felt more connected to the characters on TV. Mr. Rogers, 243 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: Neighborhood and even shows that weren't actually geared towards me was. 244 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: I was a super young child watching the Oprah Winfrey 245 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: Show and seeing people who had gone through trauma had 246 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: come out just fine. It was not geared toward nine 247 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: year old boy, but watching it made me realize that 248 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: if these people can overcome horrible things that happened to them, uh, 249 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: this and could be true of me. And then getting 250 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: a library card and reading diary of Anne Frank and 251 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: seeing like this is nothing that I'm going through. This 252 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: is nothing compared to what some people have survived. It 253 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: was invaluable that connection. I feel like stories really did 254 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: save me. I think That's why I'm a a storyteller now. 255 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: It did create dissonance for me as I was growing 256 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: up and moving on in my career that my job 257 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: was to seek out the truth and to tell people's 258 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: stories as truly as I could. While I sort of 259 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: just pretended to be the boy with no history that 260 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: I completely tried to cut myself off from my past. 261 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: There was a dissonance there. And it's only been in 262 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: the last year or so that I've realized the importance 263 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: of being honest about where I came from and sort 264 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: of the power in the telling of the story. So 265 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: how did you get out, Like walk me through you 266 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: graduate from high school? And did you know that you 267 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 1: wanted to become a journalist? What was your path initially? 268 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: Your path away from that home and that environment. Well, 269 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 1: eventually I I kept sort of fighting with my parents, 270 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: and I dropped out of high school and I kind 271 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: of fight with my dad. I think it was I 272 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: got a job setting up for a church nearby. Church 273 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: they met in a Y and c a. So I 274 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:34,719 Speaker 1: had to go and set up chairs and you know, 275 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: gymnasium and make it into a church. And I get paid. 276 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: I think it was fifty dollars a weekend when I 277 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: did that Saturdays and Sundays, and I didn't have a 278 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 1: checking account because I was sixteen years old. So I 279 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: would give my parents the checks and they were supposed 280 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 1: to give me the cash, but after they had three 281 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: fifty dollars, they would not give me the money. And 282 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: so that of course caused a fight and I just 283 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: got sofa hit up that After that fight, I moved 284 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: down my great grandmother for a little while, and then 285 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: I started renting a room. And I had been out 286 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 1: of high school for about a year. I went ahead 287 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,880 Speaker 1: and took some entrance exams and got into community college 288 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: and stayed there for a couple of years and then 289 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 1: transferred to A and M. And it was it sounds 290 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 1: crazy to say it's so simply right now, because it 291 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: seemed impossible what I was trying to do to escape, 292 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: and it was very hard, and there was a lot 293 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: of struggle, and just to sum it up to a 294 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: few sentences seems it seems so crazy, But that's what happened. Yeah, 295 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 1: it's it's always the in between, right. I teach writing, 296 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 1: and occasionally I give my students this exercise where I 297 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 1: asked them to write a list. Um, it's a sailing term, 298 00:18:57,960 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: but like the tacking points in their life, like where 299 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: when you sail from point A to point B. You 300 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: don't go in a straight line. It's like, you know, 301 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: you the boat, you know, sails into the wind or 302 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 1: away from the wind. And then after they've done that, 303 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 1: I asked them to take two of these attacking points 304 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 1: that are side by side and fill in the middle 305 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 1: because it's always the middle, right, Like what you're describing 306 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 1: is like, yes, you're summing it up, but you did. 307 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 1: I mean, ultimately you went from having dropped out of 308 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 1: college and being this really tough position two finding your feet. 309 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: You know, that's it's it's it's a messy process, but 310 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: you found your feet. Yeah, i'd like to think so 311 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 1: when I was in college, my mom because my mom 312 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: died and so that was definitely another attacking point. It's 313 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: it's hard, and we didn't have a resolution. Really she 314 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: died sort of it I wouldn't. I guess it's it's hard. 315 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: I mean, it's always it always feels sudden when someone dies, 316 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: if feel like but she had asthma and several health 317 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: problems from just the way she sort of lived her life. 318 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 1: She was I think she was addicted to prescription painkillers. 319 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:11,159 Speaker 1: She would argue otherwise they were prescribed to her by 320 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: a doctor, she would say, so they're not. She wasn't addicted, 321 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: but basically her organs started shutting down. And I drove 322 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: up from Texas A and M It's like a three 323 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:24,919 Speaker 1: hour drive to the hospital, and really wanted to to 324 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: talk to her. And she had a breathing tube. She 325 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: was conscious when I went in there and aware, but 326 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: she couldn't speak, so and the the doctors had told us 327 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:37,919 Speaker 1: that things didn't look good. It was really hard for 328 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 1: me to believe that she could actually die. She was 329 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:44,159 Speaker 1: forty three, but I tried to push myself to be 330 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: more sincere I have the habit of trying to make 331 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: jokes or being sarcastic, but I really tried to have 332 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 1: a moment with her and speak to her and tell 333 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 1: her that I wanted her to get better, and that 334 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 1: no matter what had happened between us, that she was 335 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: a part of us and that she belonged to us. 336 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: And she couldn't say anything, but she grabbed my arm 337 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: almost like she thought she could sort of compel her 338 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: whatever she was trying to say into me, and she 339 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 1: just stared at me h and cried. And then visiting 340 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: hours were over, and so I sort of got pulled 341 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: out of there. But having to to face that, having 342 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: to sort of realized that there would never be the 343 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: reconciliation that I always thought would happen with her sort 344 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: of made me confronted. I had to sort of find 345 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 1: my own reconciliation. So I think that's sort of made 346 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 1: me more aware of it too. Now Stephen's working in 347 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: a TV station in Houston. He's embarked on his successful 348 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: adult life, and what he does is push his past away. 349 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 1: He doesn't lie about it. Lying making up fantastical stories 350 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: is a thing of his past. He simply omits. He 351 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: doesn't talk about his family history, not with his friends, 352 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: not with anyone. And then one day he's in the 353 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: newsroom on a break when he gets a text from 354 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 1: his sister was a link to a news story. So 355 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,400 Speaker 1: my sister and I talked about the way we grew 356 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: up a lot, and um, she sent me a story. 357 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: She knew I was on the newscast, so she she 358 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: sent it, and I assumed we would talk about it 359 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: later and I wouldn't read it right then. But as 360 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: soon as I saw what the headline was about children 361 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 1: living in the roach infested at home, I couldn't help it. 362 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: I mean, there's two minutes left in our commercial break. 363 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: But I clicked on it and um started reading it, 364 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: and UM, I didn't just read the article. I violated 365 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 1: my own rule of not reading the comments and read 366 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:03,439 Speaker 1: the comments and people just expressing their disgust at the situation, 367 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:09,199 Speaker 1: but they're also just their hatred for these parents who 368 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 1: clearly had to been going through something for them just themselves, 369 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 1: and more than anything, it was just the sense of 370 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:22,919 Speaker 1: of shame that I remember, and I thought about it. 371 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: It was their young girls in this home. I was 372 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: just thinking about those girls. The oldest was thirteen, and 373 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,199 Speaker 1: I was remembering what it was like to be a 374 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: thirteen year old in a house like that, and imagining 375 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,880 Speaker 1: if there had been a news article about it, how 376 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 1: mortified I would have been. It just something hit me 377 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: that by omitting where I came from, I was perpetuating 378 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: that same secret that I had been carrying since childhood. 379 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: And also, of course, with secrets is often shamed, so 380 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 1: I was also just experiencing that same shame. And if 381 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: if I could just to that one family in Idaho, 382 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,199 Speaker 1: that was those girls who were going through this, but 383 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: I could just make them feel better or less alone, 384 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: it seemed worth it just to share some of what 385 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 1: I went through. So then one thing that struck me 386 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: is the break is over and you've got to go 387 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: back on the news. The cameras are rolling and your 388 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: co newscasters looking at you like are you okay? And 389 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: the camera start rolling and you know your your teeth 390 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: up to go, and you do, which is something that 391 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 1: I I see again and again and I also really 392 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:41,440 Speaker 1: relate to, because you have sort of metabolized that trauma 393 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: for all those years and just packed it away and 394 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,199 Speaker 1: put it somewhere, and it wasn't even particularly conscious for 395 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: you or visible to you, so it was possible to 396 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 1: function at this really high level and just finish up 397 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,199 Speaker 1: the news. No one looking at you would ever have 398 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,160 Speaker 1: known what was going on inside of you right at 399 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 1: sort of the story of my life, right no one 400 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: could even tell if there's anything wrong. I think that's 401 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 1: the story of so many people whose lives have been 402 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: haunted by family secrets. We live in a sort of 403 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 1: split screen existence. On one side of the screen you 404 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: have the secret, and on the other side we pack 405 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,119 Speaker 1: that secret away so that we can function at a 406 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,879 Speaker 1: high level in the world. And when you're on the 407 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: high functioning side. It's almost like the secret doesn't exist, 408 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 1: except of course it does. It never goes away. It 409 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: can recede for a period of time, but it never disappears, 410 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 1: not completely. Around the same time as Stephen's sister sent 411 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: the link to that news story, Stephen's producer had sent 412 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 1: a request of all the news anchors for childhood photos 413 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: old school photos, a fun promotion for that back to 414 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: school time of year, so that viewers could see what 415 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: the anchors look like as kids. That emailed to the 416 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 1: producer saying, and actually been sitting in my inbox for 417 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks. I just finally I decided to 418 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: sort of take it on. And I have a bunch 419 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: of photos on my phone. A few years ago, my 420 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: sister was moving and I she had a big box 421 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,239 Speaker 1: of photos, and so I just sort of use my 422 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 1: phone to take pictures of them all and hadn't looked 423 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: at them in a really long time. So I made 424 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: myself go through and I included some of those in 425 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,479 Speaker 1: the essay. It's amazing to me how many, I mean, 426 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: the photos of the worst of it never survived, Like, 427 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,159 Speaker 1: who's going to want to take pictures of roaches in 428 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,239 Speaker 1: the corner, you know what the dogs leave behind, so 429 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 1: they weren't even as bad as I remembered that being 430 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 1: it's not an ideal childhood, but I had to go 431 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: through and and choose one. And normally with that entails 432 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: as me trying to crop out anything that, you know, 433 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: if my my jeans were rapped or my shirt is stained, 434 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 1: or I mentioned in there, the bugs leave behind this 435 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 1: amber colored dust on everything, which really, for some reason 436 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: just stakes to photos and it's really hard to to 437 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: move around it. I'm trying to crop all that out, 438 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 1: but I just sent one in without doing all that treating. 439 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: And I always thought that if I did that that 440 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 1: someone would ask, you know, what it was, or someone 441 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: would inquire about it. But no one, of course even 442 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: noticed it, or if they did, they didn't say anything 443 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: about it. It was not at all a big deal. 444 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 1: So maybe next time I can save myself the trouble 445 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 1: and just send in a photo. Amber colored dust the 446 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: stuff cockroaches leave behind. Stephen and his siblings referred to 447 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: this when they were children as bug dust, sort of 448 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: like fairy dust, only not really not so. Stephen is 449 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,919 Speaker 1: looking at these photos and thinking about the news story, 450 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 1: and he just doesn't want to pretend any longer. The 451 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: fakeness of social media, the pretense. He doesn't want to 452 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: be a part of it, not at this moment. In 453 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: an essay he later wrote in the Huffington's Post, he says, 454 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 1: honesty keeps us connected, it's pretense that closes us off. 455 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: He doesn't want to curate himself, he doesn't want to pretend. 456 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 1: So there he is sitting in the middle of a 457 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: multimillion dollar news set, and something just kind of cracks open. 458 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: You do something really interesting, you send out a tweet. Yeah, 459 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 1: news all the time, so it doesn't seem like a 460 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: big deo. I'm sure it sounds like nothing. Just so 461 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: he tweeted something. But I didn't just tweet news. Here's 462 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: Stephen's original tweet. He wrote, we cover a lot of 463 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: horrible things, but this one really hit home. It sounds 464 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 1: almost identical to the house my siblings and I were 465 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: raised in. I wish I could tell these kids, especially 466 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: the thirteen year old, they're not to find by their 467 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: parents mistakes. And he tweeted it just like that. So 468 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: often my co workers and other people I have to 469 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 1: interview politicians and officials, they just assume that my background 470 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: is not too different from theirs, and I don't fault 471 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: them for that. It's absolutely what they would expect. What 472 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 1: was the feeling in the moment when you did that? 473 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: Did you sit back and think about it for a 474 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: while and then tweet? Was it impulsive? Was it just 475 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: something that sort of you just did and then you know, 476 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: I thought like, oh, I am sort of a compulsive overthinker. 477 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: I analyze and just ponder stuff like I'm very careful, 478 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: very self protective naturally, But for that, I wrote it 479 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 1: and sent it very impulsively, which is very unlike me. 480 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: I am very careful about what I tweet and posts 481 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: and just put out there. So there was as soon 482 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: as I sent it out, it was sort of like, well, there, 483 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: there it is. It's it's up there. I purposefully did 484 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,959 Speaker 1: not look at my phone for a while, which is 485 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: also very rare for me. I could feel the vibrations 486 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 1: of getting alerts and I had I just couldn't bring 487 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: myself to see it for a little while. It wasn't 488 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: until I was in my car about to go home 489 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 1: that day that I made myself look at the reaction. 490 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: And people were very kind, people I knew and people 491 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 1: I didn't know extremely kind, so it was pretty impulsive. 492 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: I would like to say that I was just being 493 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: brave and didn't have any fear, But I've always been 494 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: afraid that if the people who were in control knew 495 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 1: where I actually came from, that maybe it would limit 496 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: career opportunities. You know what, network's gonna want some anchor 497 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: in a high profile role to be the roach kid. Like. 498 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: That's always been a fear. And I would love to 499 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: tell you that it's not fear right now, but in 500 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: the back of my mind it's it's still there. But 501 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: there's a risk in being honest about where I came from. 502 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: But the reward seems so much better just for myself 503 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: just to own where I came from, but in for 504 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: other people going through it as well, that the connection 505 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: I mentioned is so much more valuable than the pretense. 506 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: Because if we can't be humans, and I'm speaking mostly 507 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: about journalists, if we we try to tell other people's 508 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: stories and sort of just float from story to story, 509 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: from tragedy to tragedy and don't take a moment to 510 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: connect to the humanity of it, I feel like it 511 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: is just not worth anything. After his story comes out, 512 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: Steven starts hearing from people, including some who he's interviewed 513 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: as a journalist. A woman he had interviewed who had 514 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: lost her daughter in a hit and run crash, sends 515 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: him a message letting him know that she could tell, 516 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,040 Speaker 1: even through the polish and veneer of his teeth, the 517 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: anchor presence that he'd experienced trauma, that he was connecting 518 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: with her as someone who had also been through really 519 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: hard times. How long has it been since that tweet? 520 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: I think it's either late July or early August last year, 521 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: so it's a matter of months, right, Yeah, not very 522 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: much time at all. A simple tweet, a moment of 523 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: reckoning that opens the door to a whole new vista. 524 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: As you said earlier, where there are secrets, there's almost 525 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: inevitably always shame. That is what is keeping that secret hidden, 526 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: you know, unspoken, unset, unshared, And you know there's the 527 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: shame that you talk about of just you know, fearing 528 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 1: that you'll be seen as damaged or that people couldn't 529 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: possibly understand, or that it will limit your opportunities or 530 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 1: have people see you differently, when in fact, almost in 531 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 1: every Doblee the opposite happens, and you know, people feel 532 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: that they can connect even if their experiences radically different. 533 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: You're showing yourself in your own humanity, and that's a 534 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: gift to everyone who experiences that, because then it allows 535 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: them to be more profoundly human, whatever that means. Yes, 536 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: it's absolutely been the case since the essay was posted. 537 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: I can't even count how many people have contacted me 538 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: saying they went through something just like I did, or, 539 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: as you mentioned, not really at all like either, but 540 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 1: the feeling, the isolation and the shame reminded them of 541 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: something that they had gone through. That's why I mentioned 542 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: that the pretense is not worth it, and the risk 543 00:33:54,960 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 1: of being honest has proved so worth it and over rewarding. 544 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 1: And U sort of Since then, I've written I don't 545 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 1: really know what it started off as, but it's become 546 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 1: as sort of draft as a as a memoir, and 547 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: it's made me realize so much of it helps you. 548 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I'm sure you've written several that 549 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,399 Speaker 1: helps me to contextualize the way things are. And I've 550 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 1: realized a lot of stuff about my parents, and people 551 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: have asked that question, how can you forgive your parents 552 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 1: and how can you continue my mom's past obviously, but 553 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:34,879 Speaker 1: I have a relationship with your father. When you live 554 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 1: that way, yeah, it just begins to open the door. 555 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,959 Speaker 1: And also, as you say, by writing about it, that's 556 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:45,320 Speaker 1: its own process of discovery. It's not just about setting 557 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: down what happened. It's really discovering what happened and how 558 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: it connects and what belongs to what. And it's made 559 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: me realize through this whole thing, which would not have 560 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 1: happened if I had not been honest enough to tweet 561 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:01,719 Speaker 1: that that my parents they couldn't take care of themselves, 562 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 1: like of course they couldn't take care of us. I 563 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 1: couldn't expect them to give me something they lacked, so 564 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 1: it wasn't even necessarily forgiving them. And it's just accepting 565 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:16,240 Speaker 1: the way it was. All of these sort of epiphanies 566 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: I wouldn't have had if I had not just been 567 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 1: open about that secret. I'd like to thank today's guest, 568 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 1: Stephen Romo. You can find Stephen on Twitter at Steven Romo. 569 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,760 Speaker 1: Family Secrets is an I Heeart media production. Dylan Fagin 570 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 1: is the supervising producer, and Julie Douglas and beth Ann 571 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 1: Mcaluso are the executive Producers. Special thanks to Derek Clements 572 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,840 Speaker 1: for his help with this episode. If you have a 573 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 1: family secret you'd like to share, you can get in 574 00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,359 Speaker 1: touch with us at listener mail at Family Secrets Podcast Come. 575 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 1: You can also find us on Instagram at Danny Ryter, 576 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:09,279 Speaker 1: Facebook at Family Secrets Pod, and Twitter at FAMI Secrets Pod. 577 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:27,880 Speaker 1: For more about my book Inheritance, visit Danny Shapiro dot com. 578 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 1: For more podcasts. For my heart radio, visit the I 579 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,320 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 580 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:34,240 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.