Speaker 1: The biggest conversations in my life, the scariest ones won't
Speaker 1: even lead to like devastation.
Speaker 2: It just could potentially lead to.
Speaker 1: Like a moment of discompany, discomfort, of cringe or whatever.
Speaker 2: And it's worth it.
Speaker 3: That's something authoring post the number one healthy well in
Speaker 3: his podcast Purpose with Jay Shetty. Hey, everyone, welcome back
Speaker 3: to on Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world.
Speaker 3: Thanks to each and every one of you that come
Speaker 3: back every week to listen, learn and grow. It means
Speaker 3: the world to me that we have this amazing community
Speaker 3: and I've just been seeing the engagement, the connection that
Speaker 3: you're all having recently, all the Instagram posts, the TikTok post,
Speaker 3: the post on Twitter like it's it's unbelievable. Thank you
Speaker 3: so much for all the love. I really mean that.
Speaker 3: And a guest comes along in a while which I
Speaker 3: actually hear about from friends, and friends get fascinated and
Speaker 3: I go, oh, I need to interview this person. And
Speaker 3: that's how I discovered today's guest. So I was sitting
Speaker 3: with a good friend of mine, Ellen DeGeneres, and she
Speaker 3: said to me that she just watched a special by
Speaker 3: Gerard Carmichael, and she said this special was so special
Speaker 3: to not be cliche. This special was so incredible that
Speaker 3: she was so moved by it, and she was like,
Speaker 3: you have to want to have him on your show.
Speaker 3: You have to sit down with him, you have to
Speaker 3: talk to him. And I was just like okay. So
Speaker 3: I went and watched it, went and checked him out.
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, this is incredible. This is really
Speaker 3: different than anything we've also done on the show. As
Speaker 3: you all know, we've only had a few stand up
Speaker 3: comics and comedians on the show so far, you know,
Speaker 3: so it's really new for us as well. But in
Speaker 3: the two minutes that I've spent with this gentleman backstage
Speaker 3: before we go live, I'm already addicted to his personality,
Speaker 3: which is always which is always a good sign. So
Speaker 3: please welcome to the show, Emmy nominated comedian Gerard Carmack
Speaker 3: or Jared, So good to see you. Thank you for
Speaker 3: doing this. Literally was Ellen. I was sitting in Ellen's
Speaker 3: house and she and I know she listens to the podcast,
Speaker 3: so Ellen, thank you for listening to the podcast. But
Speaker 3: when she listens to this, she was just like, you
Speaker 3: have to and I think you went on the show
Speaker 3: too with her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like yeah, last season, right, it was nice.
Speaker 2: I've done it for but it was nice to like
Speaker 2: go back.
Speaker 1: And yeah, she's a huge fan, she's I'm a fan
Speaker 1: of hers, Like I told her that, Like obviously, like
Speaker 1: a comedian that comes out and is incredibly brave, you know,
Speaker 1: it's rare. And she was at a time where it
Speaker 1: was really hard where you you really really got canceled
Speaker 1: for real, you know what I mean, like actually like
Speaker 1: the show could get canceled, you know, like, and she
Speaker 1: was so brave and also incredibly good at her job.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what I mean. And and and that's yeah,
Speaker 2: that's great.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love it. Well, it brought us together, so
Speaker 3: that's what I mean. A few seconds ago, you were
Speaker 3: saying that you've been watching my stuff on Instagram. But
Speaker 3: when I look at you, you're very private on social
Speaker 3: media and you don't post a lot. I wanted to understand,
Speaker 3: was that intentional?
Speaker 1: Is that I got my little private I have my
Speaker 1: private ig that is so weird and someone called me
Speaker 1: out on it is like you're private and verified, and
Speaker 1: like it's it's it's still it's really like my publicists
Speaker 1: like set it up with the intention of like posting
Speaker 1: about shows and the like. And I'm someone who doesn't
Speaker 1: want attention unless like I asked for it. I'm probably
Speaker 1: the worst celebrity whatever ever because I never really chase it.
Speaker 1: I really just like to work and then present that
Speaker 1: and that's pretty much it. And like something like Instagram
Speaker 1: is really it is me. I wouldn't want to present
Speaker 1: like a false version of myself, so I wouldn't want
Speaker 1: to be presentational, So I kind of close it off
Speaker 1: to just like as of right now. Maybe, but I
Speaker 1: don't know if I'll ever do it. I'll probably delete
Speaker 1: it before I open it. But I can be like
Speaker 1: more honest than like a control like I can just
Speaker 1: post things that I would actually I would actually text
Speaker 1: these things to everyone, And so I can remain truthful
Speaker 1: on Instagram and non perform. I'm a performer who's trying
Speaker 1: to remain nonperformance.
Speaker 3: How's that going?
Speaker 1: Okay, it's okay, Yeah, yeah, no, it's a it's I've
Speaker 1: become funnier, I think, like on stage and stuff by
Speaker 1: not performing, like by being truthful, like yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: think it's a better version of myself.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's hard. It's hard to in life, it's
Speaker 2: hard to do.
Speaker 3: That well, that must feel very comforting, I can imagine,
Speaker 3: because I feel like for so many performers, there's someone
Speaker 3: on stage because that's their job, and then there's someone
Speaker 3: at home because that's who they are, and so there's
Speaker 3: always this conflict inside and outside. What for you has
Speaker 3: been like the biggest impact on who you are today?
Speaker 3: Like if you had to say, this is a recipe
Speaker 3: of how I was created, what would you add to
Speaker 3: that recipe to say, like Gerard is a little bit
Speaker 3: of this and.
Speaker 1: A little bit of that, like sugar and spice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a big question.
Speaker 3: It's a big question, huge question.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'll be able to fully answer
Speaker 1: it because like, you know, I'm influenced by you know,
Speaker 1: the time I'm in, the who I am being American,
Speaker 1: all of those things that we're all influenced by as
Speaker 1: a performer, influenced by you know, everyone from Cosby to
Speaker 1: you know, Jack Benny to you know to Rock and
Speaker 1: Chappelle and really good people like people who are really
Speaker 1: good at their job. But lately I've been really influenced
Speaker 1: by just this this drive to not lie, you know,
Speaker 1: like like to not lie, and like it's made me
Speaker 1: a storyteller because then like just trying to you know,
Speaker 1: tell things about me or things in my life that like.
Speaker 2: Are scary is funnier.
Speaker 1: I found for the work and being around people that
Speaker 1: I don't have to try and protect my words with
Speaker 1: is more confident.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when when when you were growing up? Like what
Speaker 3: was the environment for you growing up? We just talked
Speaker 3: about North Carolina, which is where you were born and raised, right,
Speaker 3: So like what was the environment like when you were
Speaker 3: growing up and what you know?
Speaker 2: For you?
Speaker 3: How early was it that you discovered that this was
Speaker 3: going to be a path in life, because I think
Speaker 3: for me, I'm always intrigued to figure out how people
Speaker 3: discover things they're passionate about and things that they love,
Speaker 3: because that's so rare. How early was it for you
Speaker 3: and what was the environment that you grew up in?
Speaker 2: It was pretty early.
Speaker 1: Like I was a kid that performed a lot, Like
Speaker 1: I asked for a microphone every year at Christmas. That
Speaker 1: was like my accountant. I was like obsessed with microphones
Speaker 1: as a kid. I sing on the choir even when
Speaker 1: I was like a like three. My mom was an
Speaker 1: usher and she would after church like I would cry,
Speaker 1: and so she helped me up to the mic so
Speaker 1: I could. I just like I like it. I really
Speaker 1: respect it. It's powerful, it amplifies your voice. People listen
Speaker 1: to it like so intimately in a performance setting even now,
Speaker 1: like people are listening to this through headphones. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like so personal and so like my whole life.
Speaker 1: I've kind of always felt that way. I've always filmed things,
Speaker 1: I've always written, I've always I've always performed. And then
Speaker 1: I fought against it. I think for a period I
Speaker 1: was really encouraged by a friend to make the leap
Speaker 1: and move to LA and do that. I lived here
Speaker 1: for like ten years, and I thought it was like arrogant,
Speaker 1: because I do think asking for people's attention is precious.
Speaker 1: Like I try not to be like super precious in
Speaker 1: my work, but like asking for their time, like.
Speaker 2: Doing a show.
Speaker 1: If I'm doing a show and I put up tickets
Speaker 1: and people spend money for tickets and then they drive
Speaker 1: out to the venue and they sit there and they
Speaker 1: wait for you and then they listen to you, Like
Speaker 1: that's that's asking a lot. And so especially recently, like
Speaker 1: just like respect that more, you know, like like I
Speaker 1: think I have the respect that has been growing in
Speaker 1: me since childhood. For the nudging of a frame got
Speaker 1: me out to LA. But it was, uh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I love performance.
Speaker 3: I love hearing that because I feel the same way
Speaker 3: that you know. Some some people listen to this podcast
Speaker 3: every day, so they listen to the two new episodes
Speaker 3: and then they'll listen to old episodes. And I'm thinking,
Speaker 3: sometimes I'm in people's ears every week, five to seven
Speaker 3: hours a week, and I'm thinking, that is so I'm
Speaker 3: so fortunate, right, Like there's so much gratitude around that
Speaker 3: that someone allows you into there, whether you're walking the
Speaker 3: dog right now, whether you're cooking, whether you're editing, whether
Speaker 3: you're cleaning, whatever you're doing at home right now. And
Speaker 3: you said that you've always had that kind of like
Speaker 3: that belief that having someone's ears or eyes or money
Speaker 3: them turning up is is precious. Tell me about then,
Speaker 3: your how does that lead into your creative process because
Speaker 3: I feel like, for me knowing that I just finished
Speaker 3: writing my second book, it took me two years to
Speaker 3: write it, and I put a lot of effort into it,
Speaker 3: and I know that when I've written a book, it's
Speaker 3: taken two years in my life to write it, I'm
Speaker 3: putting it out. I have to. The creative effort is
Speaker 3: so high because a the book pages don't change. You
Speaker 3: can't edit those pages once they're out, and someone's going
Speaker 3: to take their time. It takes like.
Speaker 2: Potentially like written words word is.
Speaker 1: So I always thought it was crazy that Twitter uses
Speaker 1: the word published, right, because like it's like it induces
Speaker 1: in me such anxiety just thinking about the how permanent
Speaker 1: it is in placing things out there that you can't
Speaker 1: get back. And like that's why, like, if I'm going
Speaker 1: to perform, I think it's like I don't do social
Speaker 1: media because I would like to put all of that
Speaker 1: energy and I don't even say I don't do social media.
Speaker 1: Even that in itself could be a grand performance. I mean,
Speaker 1: look like Kanye is an incredible well perform like you know,
Speaker 1: like it is very warhol Ish in that, like it's
Speaker 1: spectacle to use an important peel word. But uh, you
Speaker 1: know that's its own art form. It can be its
Speaker 1: own art form. But but like I put all of
Speaker 1: my energy into like I'm a comedian and I make
Speaker 1: specials and I make television programming or whatever programs. I
Speaker 1: make movies occasionally, uh and and whenever I'm doing that,
Speaker 1: I would only like for all of my energy and
Speaker 1: all of my thoughts to go to that, yeah.
Speaker 2: And then present that. And I'm kind of repeating myself.
Speaker 3: No no, no, no, deeper into it, yeah, deeper into it.
Speaker 3: And what's your creative process? Like you're saying you put
Speaker 3: all of your energy, but like when you're building a
Speaker 3: special or one of those TV shows, like how do
Speaker 3: you even start? Like where, where's the process? What's the
Speaker 3: starting point? Like how do you get inspired at the
Speaker 3: beginning of it?
Speaker 1: I mean it's a spark of something, you know, something.
Speaker 1: A lot of times it's like anger. I think that's
Speaker 1: started this, just like a little angry. Then just started performing,
Speaker 1: doing clubs and then solo shows and then uh, you know,
Speaker 1: preparing to do it for television and like like I
Speaker 1: do stand up for specials. I think at my core
Speaker 1: that's like like I think my attention reads better in
Speaker 1: that medium, and working backward from what that is, then
Speaker 1: you know, take the writing and like form a show
Speaker 1: and like it just kind of happened. That's it happened
Speaker 1: my last special, It happened really fast. Just frustrations with
Speaker 1: secrets and feeling too old, to keep them and too,
Speaker 1: you know, like I didn't feel like an adult. I
Speaker 1: didn't feel like I had control of my own life,
Speaker 1: and so that, you know, created a lot of urgency
Speaker 1: to find a way to resolve that.
Speaker 2: In art.
Speaker 1: It's just that attempt like making a special and that's
Speaker 1: like my attemp. I'm sorry, I'm probably not.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's a great answer to hear the that honestly,
Speaker 3: that's that's not I'm speaking.
Speaker 2: I'm trying not to be like evasive about it.
Speaker 1: It really is just like it's I've been writing for years,
Speaker 1: like like, and I'm always writing. Sometimes that becomes a show,
Speaker 1: sometimes it becomes something that like it's mostly like most
Speaker 1: of creating is just a bunch of like trying and
Speaker 1: failing that no one sees, you know, and like, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, failing in my own writing, failing in my
Speaker 1: own head over and over and over and over again,
Speaker 1: and like trying to make something, write a show, you know,
Speaker 1: structure a show.
Speaker 3: Yeah. But I love what you said that anger or
Speaker 3: frustration with your own identity and your secrets. I mean
Speaker 3: that that whole concept is so real. I think for
Speaker 3: so many of us, whatever that secret may be, whatever
Speaker 3: that identity may be personally.
Speaker 1: I say to like, you know, my friends, like I
Speaker 1: really think, like everybody's in the closet about something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, there's a thing.
Speaker 1: Shame is such a powerful emotion of strong I mean,
Speaker 1: plenty of books about just how it can dictate the
Speaker 1: course of your life and your actions and your behavior,
Speaker 1: and so much is driven by shame, and so much
Speaker 1: of who we are is just our attempts to hide
Speaker 1: that little piece of ourselves that can never be seen.
Speaker 1: At least It's been a common experience amongst people I've
Speaker 1: talked to in friends. I'm sure you get a high
Speaker 1: volume moved of it. And so yeah, it was exciting
Speaker 1: and really scary to try and make something that dealt
Speaker 1: with that head on. And that's how I've been feeling
Speaker 1: in my personal life, just even though it's kind of
Speaker 1: a blurb between my work and my personal life now,
Speaker 1: but I've been trying to have conversations that I've never
Speaker 1: had and trying to deal with shame and trying to
Speaker 1: restructure my relationship with God. You know, like, am I
Speaker 1: the funniest comedian you've had on the show?
Speaker 2: I'm the funniest.
Speaker 3: That's a scary question, but the shame parts. I love
Speaker 3: that you went in that direction because I think that naturally,
Speaker 3: shame is one of those topics that isn't talked about
Speaker 3: a lot publicly, So to even bring it up in
Speaker 3: a podcast is great because we can actually talk about it.
Speaker 3: But I find like we also live in a culture
Speaker 3: where shaming has become more normal. Right, So we're talking
Speaker 3: about a time when we realize how powerful shame is
Speaker 3: as an emotion and how much it limits us from
Speaker 3: truly being ourselves. At the same time, shaming or cancel
Speaker 3: culture is is growing. At the same time, I feel
Speaker 3: like today we point more fingers at others because we
Speaker 3: know more of what others are doing. We're more likely
Speaker 3: to tear someone down because we can, whereas in the
Speaker 3: past you wouldn't have access to do that. You might
Speaker 3: do it in your dining table, or you might do
Speaker 3: it on your couch at home, but you didn't have
Speaker 3: the ability to go on social media and leave hate
Speaker 3: comments or whatever. So it's interesting that you're saying that
Speaker 3: at the same time as you're saying that, hey, we
Speaker 3: need you know shame is holding people back from being themselves,
Speaker 3: we're also shaming others more. I guess, well, we have
Speaker 3: more opportunity to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we have an opportunity to speak
Speaker 1: a lot. It's it's it's so much of that, so
Speaker 1: much of that, and to speak constantly and emotionally, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's hard to like have intention in every tweet,
Speaker 1: in every post and every.
Speaker 3: Should we is the question?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well it's it's even more powerful than the
Speaker 1: words spoken in a private setting, you know, because it's
Speaker 1: something that is even if you have one follower, you know,
Speaker 1: it has the potential of being seen and expressed amongst others.
Speaker 1: So like, you know, your intention reads and and yeah,
Speaker 1: and and I question that a lot. I mean, I
Speaker 1: mean we could go down and on for hours and
Speaker 1: hours about like its effect on us, and like, you know,
Speaker 1: even just thinking about even myself when I'm on like
Speaker 1: Instagram on my little private ig, right, I you know,
Speaker 1: I have a decent group of friends that I follow,
Speaker 1: and it's just it's so abnormal to catch up or
Speaker 1: have the illusion of catching up with all of them,
Speaker 1: you know, like constantly on like on loop. There are
Speaker 1: people sometimes that I see that I feel like I've seen,
Speaker 1: but I haven't actually had that experience with them. I've
Speaker 1: only had like this experience with the representative that's you know, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, like like on close friends or whatever, you know,
Speaker 1: and and and yeah, it's just not.
Speaker 2: Like expressing that much.
Speaker 1: Like I have this theory that we all are kind
Speaker 1: of becoming our own news channel, Like we're all the
Speaker 1: news and we have to we're all CNN or Fox
Speaker 1: or whatever, and we all have to fill the time,
Speaker 1: like we have to fill the space. Like and the
Speaker 1: more you do it, the more inclinent you are to
Speaker 1: do it. And again, it's just hard to keep that
Speaker 1: marriat to intention, you know, like the sheer volume if
Speaker 1: you just speak. If I wake up in the morning,
Speaker 1: I just speak all day and I never pause. It
Speaker 1: would be difficult to promise that everything I say would
Speaker 1: have as much intention.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just the sheer volume.
Speaker 3: Yep. I like that theory. I like that theory a lot.
Speaker 3: That's cool because I went to someone's house once and it's,
Speaker 3: without doubt the coolest house I've ever been to.
Speaker 1: This is a very cool house. So you're saying that
Speaker 1: from a very cool.
Speaker 3: House, No, but this was like this is like and
Speaker 3: I'm saying it's a cool house, not because of the
Speaker 3: bil not because of the grandeur. Not same with this.
Speaker 3: I don't think that's why I think I like my
Speaker 3: own house, was because of what he had in it.
Speaker 3: So he had a whole war, and he called it
Speaker 3: the fake news war because it was every piece of
Speaker 3: news that was published before they knew the time. So
Speaker 3: back in the day, if a newspaper was being printed,
Speaker 3: if a game wasn't over, they'd have to print the
Speaker 3: news with who was winning at the time. In hope
Speaker 3: that right, Well, all of this, whether it was people
Speaker 3: winning games, whether it's votes, whether whatever it was, it
Speaker 3: was like articles that have been printed before the fact.
Speaker 3: So he had all of it in America, like all
Speaker 3: these big and I was thinking, this is fascinating. And
Speaker 3: what you're saying right now is that without intention, a
Speaker 3: lot of what we create is fake news in our
Speaker 3: own little news channels.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, because things change.
Speaker 1: You know, your your my opinion on an album, for instance,
Speaker 1: even just something as trivial as like you know, my
Speaker 1: my feelings toward a song or an album or whatever,
Speaker 1: like it changes. It changes over the course of a week.
Speaker 1: It changes through how I've listened to it.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I imagine if I were just talking publicly about Kendrick's
Speaker 1: last album, which I went from not understanding to not
Speaker 1: liking to only liking the interludes to then listening to
Speaker 1: it while I was getting a Mandy petty and I
Speaker 1: turned the volume halfway down so I could like actually
Speaker 1: like hear the words. I had to focus on the
Speaker 1: word something about like the lower volume, Yeah, made me
Speaker 1: pay attention more and like hearing what he was saying
Speaker 1: and then being in love with the album and those
Speaker 1: tweets would have been a roller coaster, Like it's just
Speaker 1: like of emotion if I just like if I put
Speaker 1: that out like constantly, because your thoughts towards something should
Speaker 1: like change and evolve and like sometimes may take a
Speaker 1: little while to reach stable ground on.
Speaker 3: And some people would argue that the journey is authenticity, Yes,
Speaker 3: but what is what is authenticity to you as a comedian,
Speaker 3: as someone who's like the theories that you just said, Like,
Speaker 3: how do you how do you define what is authentic
Speaker 3: and real and what isn't for you?
Speaker 1: I try, And a lot of things are true, right
Speaker 1: like you can go I could. I was presenting a
Speaker 1: lot of true things right, like things that I thought
Speaker 1: were hard facts or perspective that people wouldn't want.
Speaker 2: To say out loud or be able to tolerate.
Speaker 1: And you know, I did believe it and it was true,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't like in my eyes, the most compelling
Speaker 1: version of the truth I've found like now, like when working,
Speaker 1: I run towards things I'm afraid of and that that
Speaker 1: have personal consequence in my life. So talking about me,
Speaker 1: because I never really talked about myself before, never considered
Speaker 1: myself a storyteller, and this is something I'm in many
Speaker 1: ways making art while learning and real time. But but
Speaker 1: it is and has become with my live show, just
Speaker 1: like this kind of personal exploration, not just that things
Speaker 1: that bring me shame, things that bring like and again
Speaker 1: it's hard to talk about the show, yeah, only because
Speaker 1: I'm sure I'm making it, so I must give the
Speaker 1: the caveat that it's actually funnier than I've been. But
Speaker 1: I try and keep it compelling, you know, like I
Speaker 1: trying to keep stakes in the act and like tension there,
Speaker 1: like that's my new focus is you know, both says
Speaker 1: I like give the audience a lot, like I'm more
Speaker 1: like more giving and I have more need of for
Speaker 1: them now more than ever, and I like that experience,
Speaker 1: so yeah, yeah, yeah, it's really personal now, like it's
Speaker 1: it's the things that are dangerous to me, like the
Speaker 1: evil canievral things are like my feelings toward you know, myself,
Speaker 1: or my feelings toward you know, relationships that I have.
Speaker 3: What was what was the first thing you think you
Speaker 3: ever combated through that art exploration internally as a fear
Speaker 3: Like I love that idea that your storytelling now or
Speaker 3: your special is there a exploration of something you're scared of?
Speaker 3: What was the first ever thing? Do you remember that
Speaker 3: you were scared of?
Speaker 1: No, that's I kind of baby stepped into my last project.
Speaker 1: So I was like, I made these documentaries for HBO
Speaker 1: or I went home and I was confronting like my
Speaker 1: father's adultery and my mother's forgiveness of him. And I
Speaker 1: tried to come out to my mom, but I did
Speaker 1: it in a very it was fearful, so like I
Speaker 1: was like I hooked up with dudes before, like just
Speaker 1: like kind of waiting for a reaction, you know, and
Speaker 1: it wasn't full truth. And then you know, some time
Speaker 1: later I came out to my family and it had
Speaker 1: still resonating consequences to that. It affected our relationship in
Speaker 1: a real way. There's a lot of anxiety and not
Speaker 1: speaking of kind of separating myself from my family a
Speaker 1: lot recently. I only share because I'm still in that
Speaker 1: part of the process. I want to be honest about it.
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know what, like, and I pray
Speaker 1: that it gets better and we should talk later about
Speaker 1: what prayer.
Speaker 2: Means to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's you know it great again, like kind
Speaker 1: of personal consequence. And so my last Special Rothaniel was me, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, really kind of drawn a line in the
Speaker 1: sand with my family coming out publicly, contending with my
Speaker 1: father's adultery, its effect on me, the kind of generational trauma.
Speaker 2: Calls by adultery, calls by having other.
Speaker 1: Kids outside the marriage that were kept secrets, and how
Speaker 1: just gears of secrets like kind of repressed us and
Speaker 1: repressed me into a liar, you know, not unable a
Speaker 1: liar and unable to tell my own truth. And so
Speaker 1: I look at the special as being the synopsis could
Speaker 1: read like on HBO, like man afraid of heights jumps
Speaker 1: out of an airplane for the first time. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: that was my last Special, Like that was the the
Speaker 1: intention was doing the scariest thing I could imagine. I
Speaker 1: never thought I would ever come out. I was afraid
Speaker 1: of the public's reaction. I was mostly afraid of my
Speaker 1: mother's That was the feet walking on to the stage
Speaker 1: and doing it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's I mean that even just hearing you say that,
Speaker 3: I man, that is so inspiring as a creative person
Speaker 3: like to hear that your creative impetus or intentional process
Speaker 3: is to confront a fear, a shame, something that difficult.
Speaker 3: You're doing it through comedy, which is even harder in
Speaker 3: one sense because you're making these extremely deep traumatic events,
Speaker 3: you know, lighthearted to some degree where people are able
Speaker 3: to be entertained.
Speaker 1: But the thing is, what I found with audiences is
Speaker 1: that when I go, when I share things that are
Speaker 1: personal to me, no matter what the danger, and i'veset
Speaker 1: things that are I mean, this has happened in real time,
Speaker 1: and like it's like tweets, like art is capturing a
Speaker 1: moment in time. That's why I try and focus all
Speaker 1: the energy on one thing, like my my special is
Speaker 1: just one ig live, you know what I mean. It's
Speaker 1: like it's like the one thing that I focused on.
Speaker 1: I found that when I when it's personal, it's not
Speaker 1: the same audiences like you can't like I'm talking about
Speaker 1: how I feel, I'm talking about me. I'm talking about
Speaker 1: things I went through and how that developed this perspective, right,
Speaker 1: that's all truthful. Is different than if I'm just like
Speaker 1: talking about what you you can't do.
Speaker 2: I'm all for.
Speaker 1: Whether you like it or not, kind of comedy, free speech.
Speaker 1: You have every right to do that, like in comedians
Speaker 1: do that, and I did that, I mean most of
Speaker 1: my career, but still up until recently was a lot
Speaker 1: of that trying to say the thing I like to
Speaker 1: think of mine was more intellectual. But that's my own
Speaker 1: egotistical argument for it. But you know, but now I'm
Speaker 1: talking about me, and when I'm talking about me, like
Speaker 1: audiences react with empathy or compassion even when I say
Speaker 1: sometimes I say, like some wild things, you know, but
Speaker 1: it's mine as personal, like that's that's definite. You have
Speaker 1: ownership over how you feel, you know, And that's what
Speaker 1: I want my art to be, just like how I
Speaker 1: feel right now, just like an emotion, like a pure
Speaker 1: intention bottled.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love Yeah, I get that. You've said.
Speaker 3: It's interesting though, your language is like full of like
Speaker 3: intention truth, Like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I almost hate that.
Speaker 1: I almost hate it because it's like these are powerful
Speaker 1: words that obviously get overused, and I'm sure I'm overusing I.
Speaker 2: Don't think you are the word platform, like I hate
Speaker 2: the word.
Speaker 3: I don't think you're overusing them. I feel like I
Speaker 3: don't think you're overusing them from at least what I'm
Speaker 3: I'm generating from this conversation, Like I guess, I guess
Speaker 3: what I'm fascinated by is like what you said, you
Speaker 3: said you were I think you used the word and
Speaker 3: I could have got the word room where you said
Speaker 3: you were reconstructing a relationship with God or reframing that.
Speaker 3: And then you said, let me define what prayer is
Speaker 3: to me, Yes, do both those things what you said,
Speaker 3: I pray.
Speaker 1: It's in many ways one and the same because I
Speaker 1: think my entire life, I've kind of believed this but
Speaker 1: didn't have the language to articulate how I felt. And
Speaker 1: that is truly taking the Christianity that I was taught
Speaker 1: growing up my whole life to church every Sunday, even
Speaker 1: when my mama worked, I went with my grandma sang
Speaker 1: on the choir. Uh Sunday school class into regular service.
Speaker 1: Stayed after talking to the parking lot full church boy
Speaker 1: and learning about God, the man in the sky who
Speaker 1: at you know, your requests can show you benevolence and
Speaker 1: at as consequence for your sins punish you, right, And
Speaker 1: I was. I was taught about this man and internalized
Speaker 1: this man, and he dictated my actions and my words
Speaker 1: and my fear. And then I read this book by
Speaker 1: Eric Butterworth called Discover the Power Within You, and it
Speaker 1: helped me articulate how how I felt, which is if
Speaker 1: you take Christ's words as philosophy, right, like just like
Speaker 1: take away this human needs to worship the light and
Speaker 1: just listen and accepting your own divinity. And by divinity,
Speaker 1: I don't want to be confused because I think lose
Speaker 1: sometimes non religious people. I mean your you know, potential
Speaker 1: for to function fully. That's all something that Christ has
Speaker 1: said that you have. You have at birth. It is
Speaker 1: your right and you are essentially God manifesting himself as
Speaker 1: Jay as Gerard, you know, like it's I accept that
Speaker 1: I accept my own potential. I realized that prayers are
Speaker 1: just affirmations that you are asking for what you already have.
Speaker 1: I think it's why, like good advice feels familiar something
Speaker 1: you're like, yes, oh, yes.
Speaker 2: I knew that. Yeah, you know, that's why you connect.
Speaker 1: With it, and it's it is there, you know, and
Speaker 1: it's divinity that that we all have access to. But
Speaker 1: it's always like the you know practice that's rough, right,
Speaker 1: because it's easier. It was easier for me, I want
Speaker 1: to speak personally. It was easier for me to just
Speaker 1: accept a guy that I can send and then ask
Speaker 1: for forgiveness, and you know, a Bible that I didn't
Speaker 1: fully understand and and just kind of accept that there's
Speaker 1: this external force dictating and you know that kind of
Speaker 1: the devil relinquished me of responsibility for my own actions.
Speaker 1: I was able to kind of back away from things
Speaker 1: that wasn't me, that was the devil, you know. And
Speaker 1: now by internalizing though that philosophy and seeing it as philosophy,
Speaker 1: I had to remove the magic from the Bible. Right,
Speaker 1: And this is what works for me. And I'm saying
Speaker 1: it cautiously because I know, like I can still see
Speaker 1: the ears of my mother perking up, so like I'm
Speaker 1: saying that this is what has helped me.
Speaker 2: And.
Speaker 1: Just like realizing that God is me functioning as I
Speaker 1: can you know, and things function as they can access
Speaker 1: to good, like we all have access to good, even
Speaker 1: through tragedy, even through pain. You know, those words of
Speaker 1: the Bible become different, they hit a little different when
Speaker 1: you accept yourself as innately divine right. You know, all
Speaker 1: things work for good, for through God who strengthens me,
Speaker 1: you know, like Philippians, is.
Speaker 2: Is something that you know, you, Oh, I can use
Speaker 2: all of this. We're good.
Speaker 1: I can take what you know, I can take the
Speaker 1: rubble or things from the ashes and make something new
Speaker 1: out of this and continue forward, like with a sense
Speaker 1: of purpose, with a sense of duty, I can form that,
Speaker 1: you know, taking tragedy. And we see it all the time,
Speaker 1: like you know parents, some children who've gone through tragedies,
Speaker 1: or you know people just with loved ones who've experienced
Speaker 1: something and then they take what's been destroyed and they
Speaker 1: make something new, you know. And that is the Bible.
Speaker 1: That's using your own innate power to move forward. And
Speaker 1: that's the line between me and my mother. That's been
Speaker 1: the line between me and the Church my entire life.
Speaker 1: I've always wanted to believe that, and it wasn't until
Speaker 1: I came out or even accept it. Let's just say
Speaker 1: accept it who I was that I was forced to
Speaker 1: then say, okay, well God has taught to me is
Speaker 1: not accepting of me, and I had to re examine
Speaker 1: in order to not destroy myself.
Speaker 3: I love hearing your thought process because it's so real,
Speaker 3: Like you're so in it. And as someone who's created
Speaker 3: did a piece of art based on a fear, you've
Speaker 3: had to live through that fear again and again and
Speaker 3: again in the creation process. How did it feel. Did
Speaker 3: you feel that making a piece of art on that
Speaker 3: relinquished a fear and now you can move on to
Speaker 3: another shame or another guilt or another fear or what
Speaker 3: was the what was it like? Yeah? Does that make sense?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And speaking of that fear, like I was, like I
Speaker 1: did a few shows on the role in preparation for
Speaker 1: the special, and like I was like coming out to
Speaker 1: audience members that knew me like every night, like like
Speaker 1: it was like a new It was like jumping off
Speaker 1: a cliff.
Speaker 3: Like that's what I mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And it was a lot, but it
Speaker 1: is how I knew it's the direction I needed to
Speaker 1: go in because it did scare me and you know,
Speaker 1: I've learned to trust that feeling isn't always that I'm
Speaker 1: going in the wrong direction, but in fact that I'm
Speaker 1: going there's like.
Speaker 2: A lot of fertile ground.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the fear. It just stays.
Speaker 1: It just stays the whole time, the whole time until
Speaker 1: it's released, and then you kind of release the fear.
Speaker 3: Did you feel you released the fear when that happened or.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in many ways, Well, in many ways because I
Speaker 1: feel more truthful publicly now, which feels great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that feels really really good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I don't have the fear of being
Speaker 1: found out in that way. But they're still I'm definitely
Speaker 1: still fighting through shame and how it's manifested itself in
Speaker 1: my life through you know, things really like that I
Speaker 1: could call hypochondria or OCD or whatever, but really like
Speaker 1: anxieties rooted in shame that I'm working through and that
Speaker 1: I'm trying to understand better myself, and I feel it
Speaker 1: like my job to explore that. You know, so I
Speaker 1: kind of chase that feeling. I don't recommend it.
Speaker 3: I was just about to say, I was like, how
Speaker 3: do you recommend people do this? Because I think that
Speaker 3: whether you're a performer or not, we all have to
Speaker 3: go through this process.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do recommend for whatever it's worth
Speaker 1: me saying like that, you run toward all of the
Speaker 1: things that you're afraid of in a truthful way, contend
Speaker 1: with it with an open mind.
Speaker 2: I think that's very very important.
Speaker 3: How did you do it in a way that didn't
Speaker 3: break you or hurt you or because I think that's
Speaker 3: where people are scared of shame and guilt because it
Speaker 3: feels like a broken piece of glass, and so when
Speaker 3: you pick up a broken piece of glass, you could
Speaker 3: get caught. So people like, oh, it's just better to
Speaker 3: just shove it away.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, and I'm still like, you know,
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm still picking it up. But good
Speaker 1: friends very very important in my case. And you know,
Speaker 1: people that remind me where the ground is, you know,
Speaker 1: just get caught up in all of it, all of it.
Speaker 1: Anxiety is real. I'm recently admitting that I experience anxiety.
Speaker 1: I ran away from admitting that much of my life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can relate to that. I remember a few
Speaker 3: years ago, my mum would always tell me, I think
Speaker 3: you're stressed, and I'd be like, I'm not stressed, I'm fine.
Speaker 3: And I didn't even want to admit it to myself.
Speaker 3: So it's not that I was lying to her. I
Speaker 3: was lying to myself. I didn't even want to because
Speaker 3: I was scared that if I let that in then
Speaker 3: that would change me somehow. That blocked me stop. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And I didn't realize that, and that you're weak totally.
Speaker 1: The thought that you're weak weak there, Oh you're being
Speaker 1: consumed by these oh this small little thing is eating
Speaker 1: you up, and it's just like yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, yeah, and it is yeah, it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And I had a friend that I remember was going
Speaker 3: through depression very early on, and like this when we
Speaker 3: were much younger, and I didn't I was like, how
Speaker 3: can you be depressed? You've got nothing to be you know,
Speaker 3: that kind of mindset, and then you go for something
Speaker 3: yourself and you go, oh God. I experienced depression and
Speaker 3: I was scared of accepting it, and it took me.
Speaker 3: It was the same for me. It was the weak aspect.
Speaker 3: It was the aspect of no, no, no, some people
Speaker 3: have it much worse, Like what am I complaining about?
Speaker 3: It was it was the shame that came with oh no,
Speaker 3: but I'm you know, I if a mom thinks I'm stressed,
Speaker 3: and she'll get stressed, and the guilt, all of that.
Speaker 2: And any excuse not to correct confront it right.
Speaker 3: Confront it, and I feel like you just keep putting
Speaker 3: it off. And now I've realized that I need to
Speaker 3: talk to that feeling or emotion when it arises, because
Speaker 3: me putting it away just makes it get bigger and
Speaker 3: darker and deeper. And that's what I find so interesting
Speaker 3: doing it through art, because when you're putting it out
Speaker 3: in front of other people again, now it's their mind.
Speaker 3: Their impression gets involved too, Like what they're going to
Speaker 3: think of it? What is it right now? If you
Speaker 3: said that there's a fear right now or a shame
Speaker 3: or guilt right now that you're trying to unpack next,
Speaker 3: Like is there something that not that you're working on
Speaker 3: specifically for a new project, but even just in your
Speaker 3: own life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, probably emotional blocks that like stopped me
Speaker 1: from being in like a healthy relationship with with someone
Speaker 1: you know, and and as someone who came out publicly later,
Speaker 1: I realized that there are phases and things that I
Speaker 1: go through and that it's normal to go through.
Speaker 2: But but just understanding those.
Speaker 1: Blocks has been interesting to me as a late and
Speaker 1: dealing with the the things that don't sound cool. Give
Speaker 1: me an example, Yeah, well, well only because not that
Speaker 1: I not not even that I don't want to, but
Speaker 1: but I'm only respecting that on stage is a different place. Yes,
Speaker 1: that that allows me to say things. I get that
Speaker 1: that like that, Like I may say something that I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: now we need another hour, you know, I'm like, well
Speaker 1: can we can I explain everything that led to that?
Speaker 1: You know, like I don't know, I love that. Yeah, yeah, nothing,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, just things that are personally scary
Speaker 1: to me. You know, like you know, there are no
Speaker 1: bodies or anything, but like but you know there are
Speaker 1: like you know, things that have like emotional consequences that.
Speaker 2: You know, run from.
Speaker 3: I like, how simple you went back to. It's just
Speaker 3: like good friends, like you know friends. It just it
Speaker 3: sounds like such a basic thing. And I was. We
Speaker 3: had some friends over that hadn't seen for years this
Speaker 3: weekend and we were all just appreciating that as well
Speaker 3: in terms of I remember, I've been coaching people for
Speaker 3: a long time and that was really what my work
Speaker 3: was before I did any of what I do today,
Speaker 3: and all I ever met was people who were lonely
Speaker 3: at the top. Like that was considered with my experience,
Speaker 3: and so I would often say to myself that while
Speaker 3: I'm building my life, I don't want I want to
Speaker 3: make sure that I build relationships at the same time
Speaker 3: as build things. And I don't just mean like love
Speaker 3: and romantic I mean like friendships, as you're saying. And
Speaker 3: I've realized just how much time that takes, how much
Speaker 3: energy that takes, how much effort that takes, but how
Speaker 3: fulfilling it is. And it sounds so simple and it's
Speaker 3: so basic.
Speaker 1: Oh it's difficult, and it's almost yeah, and it's almost
Speaker 1: a lot of the things that drive you to be
Speaker 1: successful are isolating. Like there is a lot of accepted selfishness,
Speaker 1: even amongst frank like I at times have been a
Speaker 1: horrible friend, like a very selfish friend. Like I mean
Speaker 1: just like get on the phone, talk about me for
Speaker 1: an hour, all right, bye, you know, just like a
Speaker 1: one sided friend, a a friend who's used money to
Speaker 1: supplement connection, a friend who's like kept friends at arms
Speaker 1: distance so I could work or focus.
Speaker 2: Or however I justified it, and I still do that.
Speaker 1: I still do that like that, Like I can relate
Speaker 1: like like in I and I and I value my
Speaker 1: work and so specifically in art, like it's like license
Speaker 1: to sometimes indulge in like behavior or in emotions that
Speaker 1: are harmful to relationships. And I can't tell if that's Look,
Speaker 1: it's not okay because it's like but it's like an
Speaker 1: occupation hazard.
Speaker 3: Occupational has it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's an occupational hazard. It's like you're I
Speaker 1: don't know, I have to go there, like I have
Speaker 1: to go into this cave.
Speaker 3: Well, I think the part I find fascinating about it
Speaker 3: is the awareness of it, right, I think the lack
Speaker 3: of awareness. A lot of people may be doing that
Speaker 3: but they don't even know why. Yeah, Whereas and I
Speaker 3: can relate to a lot of that, like I've I've
Speaker 3: definitely been very clear with friends, family, things like that
Speaker 3: about what I can and can't do based on what
Speaker 3: I'm working on. But it's different when it's carved out,
Speaker 3: when it's communica. Yeah, when it's yeah, right, it helps
Speaker 3: exactly helps.
Speaker 2: It definitely helps me.
Speaker 1: Like, and that's a part of honesty and not lying
Speaker 1: to yourself about what you're doing. Yeah, being able to
Speaker 1: say Okay, like I used to be so late to work,
Speaker 1: you know, just because like I'm just in my head
Speaker 1: and like I know how long it takes me to
Speaker 1: like shift gears, and like I would lie to him
Speaker 1: about I didn't realize I was lying, but I would
Speaker 1: be like with starting at three, you know, and then
Speaker 1: like five thirty, I'm like, okay, I'm ready, you know,
Speaker 1: and he's and I'm wasting his time being a horrible
Speaker 1: It's not even productive for me because like now I'm
Speaker 1: trying to like work closely with someone who's like like
Speaker 1: justifiably frustrated with me, you know, and so like just
Speaker 1: like learning to communicate even like, oh, look this is
Speaker 1: how I'm feeling right now.
Speaker 2: That's how I'm feeling today.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So working on like I don't even know if
Speaker 1: we're going to get to it, and he's like, look,
Speaker 1: then i'll make it as a loose plan exactly, and
Speaker 1: I'll either see you at three or in two weeks.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, you know, that's what we're so scared of communicating.
Speaker 3: And that's what I feel the same way I was
Speaker 3: talking about in relationships, So with my wife, for a
Speaker 3: long time, i'd always be like three nights three nights
Speaker 3: this week, I just need to spend time alone. You
Speaker 3: can say that, or you can say, hey, these three
Speaker 3: nights I'm working on this thing, which means I need
Speaker 3: some time and space. That's totally different to a these
Speaker 3: three nights, I'm just going to be And it takes
Speaker 3: a little bit more time and energy and effort. And
Speaker 3: this isn't about advice. It's just about the idea of
Speaker 3: what you're saying that you're actually creating more issues for
Speaker 3: yourself by not communicating, and the courage that it takes
Speaker 3: has it just pays off. Like you just said, your friends,
Speaker 3: oh I'm clear now.
Speaker 2: But saying the thing.
Speaker 1: Saying the thing scared potentially awkward and it's not even
Speaker 1: that A lot of times, like the big conversations in
Speaker 1: my life, the scariest ones are that won't even lead
Speaker 1: to like devastation, It just could potentially lead to like
Speaker 1: a moment of.
Speaker 2: Discomfort, discomfort of cringe or whatever. And it's worth it.
Speaker 2: It's worth it.
Speaker 1: My friends and I'm closest with have caught essentially have
Speaker 1: caught me out on a lie, which is a difficult
Speaker 1: thing to do, and we survived it and we're closer
Speaker 1: because of it.
Speaker 3: That's impressive. Yeah, that's impressive. Most people can't take that.
Speaker 3: But that's why it comes back to awareness. Like even
Speaker 3: earlier you mentioned ego and it was like even the
Speaker 3: ability to see your own ego is a healthy sense
Speaker 3: of awareness. I mean, we're in this attention economy right now, where,
Speaker 3: like you said, we talked about this. We started with this,
Speaker 3: the idea that everyone's trying to grapple for people's attention.
Speaker 3: People will even invent things in their life to get
Speaker 3: attention because it's so hard to get attention when you're
Speaker 3: trying to not even get able.
Speaker 1: To raising their children and on the internet, like people
Speaker 1: are like camera like the children are like sleeping.
Speaker 3: But with that, like the attention part, like how is
Speaker 3: it that then in a world where then you're trying
Speaker 3: you're saying that you're still you still have to compete
Speaker 3: for attention, but you're trying to do it for fear
Speaker 3: and exploration and art like.
Speaker 1: Well, because to me, that's like interesting to me, it's
Speaker 1: interesting because it's scary and it's like yeah, emotion too
Speaker 1: for me, and like not only respecting people's time, but realizing,
Speaker 1: you know, just how hard it is to get anyone's
Speaker 1: attention for a moment and to make people feel anything,
Speaker 1: you know, because that's also if you're inundated with bad
Speaker 1: nabs even like you you know, people a either seek
Speaker 1: good news through their art or be like you know,
Speaker 1: only a really authentic version of something can even resonate
Speaker 1: or have the potential to resonate with a viewer or listener.
Speaker 1: And and so you know, I respect it, and I
Speaker 1: know it's hard. So like that's why I like save
Speaker 1: it for when it's ready, you know, even if it's
Speaker 1: a daily show. If I were doing a daily show, still,
Speaker 1: I would just save it all for that night, you know,
Speaker 1: like like just like but that's just how again I
Speaker 1: say that with the disclaimer, with the non judgmental disclaimer
Speaker 1: of you know of someone who follows accounts on Instagram
Speaker 1: that I find funny or in some ways inspirational or whatever.
Speaker 1: But it's always like there's always like the truth that
Speaker 1: like really gets me.
Speaker 2: It's why I love sports. Sports is true.
Speaker 1: I watch I don't even watch sports, but I watch
Speaker 1: ESPN all day every day.
Speaker 2: Sports Center around the Horn.
Speaker 1: Yeah, PTI like just like like facts, facts, facts, truth, truth, truth, opinions,
Speaker 1: like plenty of opinions. It's funny. It's just an honest
Speaker 1: what's your favorite book whatever? Oh right, I also like
Speaker 1: straight things for gay reasons. So like, I'm like really
Speaker 1: obsessed with the lighting of basketball. You know, this stadium
Speaker 1: is like, you know, this arena is gorgeous, you know,
Speaker 1: like you know, the golden light of the garden or whatever.
Speaker 1: Like I'm but but I'm obsessed with the production of it.
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with like you.
Speaker 3: Know that you never heard that sports is true, it's.
Speaker 1: A TV show like my you know friends who really
Speaker 1: truly loves sports. But I'm like, yeah, the NBA is
Speaker 1: just like a long running television program. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: like Michael Jordan was one of my favorite stars of
Speaker 1: that program. He got me to watch it on TV.
Speaker 1: You know, like it's you know, a tour. It's a
Speaker 1: televised tour.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's I mean, that's that's yeah, that's an interesting
Speaker 3: way to see. I mean I'm obsessed with soccer football.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but the rules of performance when I go to games,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like it's a full show. They're also
Speaker 1: trying to keep the audience attention the whole time.
Speaker 3: America, it's a show in England. Yeah, in England it's
Speaker 3: not like that. Oh no, on sports in England there
Speaker 3: is no entertainment, but the.
Speaker 2: Space that's nice.
Speaker 1: Even advertising in England seems so like when you're going
Speaker 1: down like in London, if you're walking down the strand.
Speaker 1: Part of what makes it gorgeous is that it's just
Speaker 1: like these really like these giant brick buildings that reflect
Speaker 1: lightwell and and have No, it's not a lot of ads.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, it's just like clean.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And sports is like that. You won't you see
Speaker 3: sponsors on shirts obviously, and sponsors around the pitch, but
Speaker 3: it's it's different. Like I realized that when I came
Speaker 3: to the US. I was like, oh wow, everything's entertainment everything,
Speaker 3: you know, just a spool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you guys do do the giant soccer I
Speaker 1: don't like. I mean some of the jerseys are cool.
Speaker 2: I don't like it. On the NBA jerseys, it's like
Speaker 2: not worth.
Speaker 1: The yeah, quick and loans right here, like give a
Speaker 1: kid a clean like jersey.
Speaker 2: I love God.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, it's like, I mean, America has done
Speaker 1: it in a way that's just so it's so part
Speaker 1: of the culture.
Speaker 2: It's like even like movies.
Speaker 1: You know, I fought really hard in my movie to
Speaker 1: even keep just like coke bottles or something, because that
Speaker 1: is like to me, that looks American looking at a
Speaker 1: photo photograph of New York or LA, like I could
Speaker 1: in many places recognize it, but the advertisements and the
Speaker 1: pure ubiquity of it totally.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what's your take on I guess as looking at
Speaker 3: I love how you have theories and insights and all
Speaker 3: different industries, looking at the advertising industry or looking at
Speaker 3: product placement, looking at that, like, is there do you
Speaker 3: have any interesting theories about how ads have changed? Because
Speaker 3: obviously now we're going from targeted ads ads everywhere. I mean,
Speaker 3: you're you're off social media, but like, I'm just fascinated
Speaker 3: to hear your thoughts on advertising and attention, like and
Speaker 3: why we fall for every time, because.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm susceptible to me too, I loved to have
Speaker 1: an iPhone. iPhones aren't even the best phones, but I
Speaker 1: bought one, Like I see pixels and stuff, I'm like,
Speaker 1: that is amazing. Well, I mean, no, what I'm gonna
Speaker 1: like text my friends from like a green bubble, but
Speaker 1: like it's because of the like it really sold like
Speaker 1: Apple sold me on a dream and I'm a sucker
Speaker 1: who bought it, and like and it's sleeking.
Speaker 2: It's cool.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're obviously great qualities to whatever, but like,
Speaker 1: like I'm very susceptible to things. I'm susceptible to words
Speaker 1: and images just like you know, and so that's part
Speaker 1: of the reason it's hard for me to see things
Speaker 1: because I know, like it's a lot for me. That's
Speaker 1: why I have to like do the YouTube no ads. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, now it's an interesting thing. Like you know,
Speaker 1: it's a lot of brands that are like afraid of
Speaker 1: its customer like and really like a lot of corporations
Speaker 1: that are very timidly putting friendly, diverse commercials for that,
Speaker 1: you know, and they always wanted to appease everyone. But
Speaker 1: like now I think there's a lot of timidity to it.
Speaker 1: Some of them are still creative.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Obviously Geico changed the world. Yeah, definitely there it should
Speaker 1: be some type of award just like yeah, like that
Speaker 1: Gecko should win like thing of the year, Like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, time Gecko.
Speaker 1: Of the Year because it's like like I mean it
Speaker 1: did like it made everything not about the product, just
Speaker 1: like removed from it.
Speaker 3: I think that's my opinion. My I probably have an
Speaker 3: interesting view on this. I love good advertising. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: respect it, Yeah, because I'm like, if that's if it's true.
Speaker 3: Obviously it's true. That's that's a big part of it.
Speaker 3: But I love it when someone has thought about the aesthetics,
Speaker 3: someone has thought about the presentation. I can respect that
Speaker 3: that required a lot of brain power, right, It required
Speaker 3: that in any potent, it requires some inner potential. It
Speaker 3: didn't they didn't just go oh yeah, I just turned up.
Speaker 1: I mean, bro, it's like good advertising, Like, oh well
Speaker 1: it's I also respect the Edward Burnet's you know, manipulation
Speaker 1: of it all, just like, man, you really got me,
Speaker 1: you really get just.
Speaker 3: But yeah, but there's something there is fascinating to see.
Speaker 3: Who had the ability to shift human behavior that is
Speaker 3: fascinating to observe. And I think if we observed that more,
Speaker 3: I think we wouldn't get as sucked in by it, right, Like,
Speaker 3: because what we're saying is we like good advertising, but
Speaker 3: we know when it's advertising. Yeah, And so I'm not
Speaker 3: saying I can I'm not susceptible to it, but I'm
Speaker 3: saying that being able to see what's working on me.
Speaker 2: Well, it's helpful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just that exactly that that what you're being presented. Okay,
Speaker 1: this is a this is probably a lot. So the
Speaker 1: two parts. One, I'm perpetually trying to change my mother
Speaker 1: and test their capacity for change and her ability to
Speaker 1: question the source. Hey, is religion, as you've learned it
Speaker 1: something that may have been manipulated over time? And like,
Speaker 1: are all of these things like the divine word of
Speaker 1: a divine being or are they influenced by kings and
Speaker 1: politicians alike over the course of the two thousand years since? Right,
Speaker 1: So there's always that, And so like I'm probably to
Speaker 1: a degree that is unhealthy cynical and skeptical and definitely
Speaker 1: believe conspiracy a lot. But I also think that the
Speaker 1: belief of conspiracy is dangerous, right, Like, so it's like
Speaker 1: trying to find middle ground.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: It's just like because like the belief of conspiracy is
Speaker 1: like why we know anti vaxxers, right, Like, it's just
Speaker 1: like every everyone's like but Tuskegee experiment. But I'm like
Speaker 1: one that doesn't really make sense because to me, of
Speaker 1: the government's intention was to control the population. Then when
Speaker 1: they put the thing in the vaccine that actually saves
Speaker 1: you and kill everybody else.
Speaker 2: That's a conspiracy.
Speaker 1: You know. That's a wild thing to say too, but
Speaker 1: like but like, but like it's just a rabbit hole
Speaker 1: of never ending things. So it's and I get that
Speaker 1: it's difficult to know truth in news source now, but
Speaker 1: like it's trying to find middle ground between like having
Speaker 1: a respectable I don't know, your own internal checks and
Speaker 1: balances for where you get your information and where you
Speaker 1: get the information that dictates your life.
Speaker 3: And it's hard. It's it's just plain Yes, it's hard
Speaker 3: because it's like it's exhausting. Its exhausting. Where do it go?
Speaker 3: And I don't And I want to be honest and said,
Speaker 3: there isn't a place to say, hey, go to this
Speaker 3: website that gives you the best news, because there isn't,
Speaker 3: like you know, and so you're always going to have that,
Speaker 3: And I I wonder how.
Speaker 1: You'll definitely be less happy, Yeah, like that that's a thing,
Speaker 1: Like with information, you'll be less out. But I think
Speaker 1: we're all less happy anyway because we're receiving so much
Speaker 1: information anyway, so you might as well, like receive information
Speaker 1: that forces you to self examine correct self explorer.
Speaker 2: So it's like we're inundated with in any.
Speaker 3: Way, Yeah, if you can make time for.
Speaker 2: But we make.
Speaker 1: Time, you know what I mean, Like we do make
Speaker 1: time like the busiest person, like like you know, all
Speaker 1: my front and I know that I have like the
Speaker 1: luxury of not having a day job. It's half a
Speaker 1: luxury because I do need to be busy to not
Speaker 1: drive myself crazy. But like you know, those I know
Speaker 1: that are like working like twelve hour fourteen hour shifts
Speaker 1: still find time to like be inundated with information, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like a lot of it's numbing,
Speaker 1: and again it is exhausting, but it does lead to
Speaker 1: I think a healthier life, you know, like self awareness
Speaker 1: and being able to increase My mother is fearful of
Speaker 1: the ground that she's been walking on being moved, and
Speaker 1: I get that, but you know not, I just wish
Speaker 1: it wasn't at the sacrifice of self exploration.
Speaker 3: Well, I think that you just hit on something really powerful.
Speaker 3: Like for a long time, I believe that what people
Speaker 3: most needed was care and love, and I started to
Speaker 3: realize that for most people, they weren't searching for that.
Speaker 3: They're searching for safety. Safety, and an ideology. Safety in
Speaker 3: a relationship, safety and security and stability is what people
Speaker 3: are looking for. And so the challenge with confidently exploring
Speaker 3: an emotion or an ideology feels unsafe, yes, because it
Speaker 3: makes you question what you're standing.
Speaker 2: On everything, everything.
Speaker 3: But that requires you to recognize that it's more unsafe
Speaker 3: to not examine.
Speaker 2: Yes, what you think, Yeah, that's what. That's a giant leap.
Speaker 3: That's a giant lead.
Speaker 2: It's a very very giant leap.
Speaker 1: And it's like it's easier to live under the law
Speaker 1: of platitudes, you know, and not explore.
Speaker 3: How do you find as a as obviously, like as
Speaker 3: a comedian then as an actor, right, and like you're directing,
Speaker 3: you're you're creating, Like how does that help you explore
Speaker 3: the truth differently? Or what is that doing that's different
Speaker 3: for you personally because obviously now we just we've literally
Speaker 3: just been extraveling how you do this as a comedian
Speaker 3: and how you do this in your work, But then
Speaker 3: acting and directing and creating is totally different, right, Yeah, yeah, Well,
Speaker 3: I mean you've been playing your parts of yourself.
Speaker 1: I've been doing that, and I'm trying to do less
Speaker 1: of that. I don't want to be a multi hyphen.
Speaker 1: I'm not necessarily chasing that. I do think that I
Speaker 1: have a skill in multiple things, but I would like
Speaker 1: to create focused work and and and so even like
Speaker 1: acting in directing, my my last movie is something that
Speaker 1: I would never do again, and I'm very thankful. I
Speaker 1: believe we pulled it off and made something that can
Speaker 1: resonate with people. That I would rather focus on one thing.
Speaker 1: I think that it's important, you know, even like the
Speaker 1: idea of like egot is cool, I would rather be
Speaker 1: the best at one of those things, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like, but they do all have one thing
Speaker 1: in common, and that it's like finding truth. And as
Speaker 1: an actor, I do believe the more I've explored my
Speaker 1: emotion and walls, I started doing psychoanalysis a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago, and it's been very helpful, letting me find
Speaker 1: the thought underneath the thought and actively get in touch
Speaker 1: with intention, right, and acting is believing, And it's easier
Speaker 1: to get in touch with intention when I've explored them,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: And I have more access to.
Speaker 1: Different intention now, uh, and so I am excited to
Speaker 1: act more Now. I feel like my whole career is
Speaker 1: you know, just been me learning and building up until
Speaker 1: even it will continue to be that. But recently I
Speaker 1: feel like I've had more access to the truth and
Speaker 1: made like a conscious decision to do that going forward,
Speaker 1: or at least to try so.
Speaker 2: So I think that would make whatever I'm doing better.
Speaker 2: But yeah, sure, that's like the common threat.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I felt that because even the idea in the
Speaker 3: movie of like two men making a suicide pack, like
Speaker 3: that concept.
Speaker 1: Only works if you play it truthfully. People were afraid
Speaker 1: of that movie. On the counter three was very hard
Speaker 1: to get financed. Nobody wanted to do it, you know,
Speaker 1: very luckily found Two.
Speaker 3: What was the reason that people don't like making movies?
Speaker 1: Well, well, one because what comedy it's with the assumption
Speaker 1: that it isn't truthful and that it will be made
Speaker 1: fun of and just dismissed and made light of. Right,
Speaker 1: And I like my show, and like I've always believe
Speaker 1: that you can find like a lot of humor while
Speaker 1: taking things seriously, you know, like and to me, that's
Speaker 1: the best humor. Like my favorite movies, even the movies
Speaker 1: I think are the funniest, you know, like you know,
Speaker 1: watching a Coen Brothers movie or Safty brothers movie, or
Speaker 1: even directors who don't have a brother they're funny because
Speaker 1: it's so real. It's hype of real. That's my taste
Speaker 1: in my sense of humor. To me, Counter three is like,
Speaker 1: because of the stakes of it being your last stay
Speaker 1: on Earth, it's actually aspirational in a way. You know
Speaker 1: that allows itself to be very very very very funny,
Speaker 1: because it's like, you know, it's sincere.
Speaker 2: They really think this is the end.
Speaker 1: These two, these two characters and Avou really believe that,
Speaker 1: and we take seriously the reasons they're there, and it
Speaker 1: just makes a product that keeps my attention. I think
Speaker 1: people have respected it and respect the film more because
Speaker 1: it takes depression seriously. It takes treatment of it seriously,
Speaker 1: and it takes seeing suicide as a resolution seriously. And
Speaker 1: we weren't afraid to treat the audience like the You know,
Speaker 1: if you've experienced this, if you've had these thoughts like one,
Speaker 1: you know, I do believe that it can be triggering,
Speaker 1: so it is important to know yourself when going into it.
Speaker 1: But I do think people who have and I've now
Speaker 1: been able to talk to people and read things that
Speaker 1: people have written about going through depression, having suicidal ideations
Speaker 1: and even attempts, and connecting with the film in a
Speaker 1: way that they didn't expect because it was truthful, you know,
Speaker 1: and that was important, and laughing at it because it
Speaker 1: was truthful. And so you know, that's always the gamble.
Speaker 1: I'm willing to take that, like being truthful, treating my
Speaker 1: audience as adults will pay off.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it was hard.
Speaker 1: It was really hard, know one, Like it cost me
Speaker 1: a lot of my own money, like went broke making
Speaker 1: the movie, you know what I mean, Like like it
Speaker 1: was it was really really hard, but really worth it,
Speaker 1: really worth even just as an artistic statement of fearlessness
Speaker 1: to explore it was worth it.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, just I'd seen your work and
Speaker 3: I think when you sit down with someone and this
Speaker 3: is why do the podcast, it's like to really hear
Speaker 3: about why they do it, and then you get a
Speaker 3: deeper appreciation of what someone does when you know why
Speaker 3: they do it and how they think about it and
Speaker 3: how far they go off the edge to do it.
Speaker 3: And I just find you really inspiring on in a
Speaker 3: different way than than i'd usually imagine with comedy, because
Speaker 3: it's not just enterainment, it's not just galvanizing a crowd.
Speaker 3: It's not holding attention. It's it's like the ability to
Speaker 3: encourage us all to move in the direction of our fears. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: and you're doing that, whether you're saying that or yeah
Speaker 3: or not, that's what I feel encouraged to do through
Speaker 3: your work.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you saying that. My friend Bowl always
Speaker 1: says that, like more the access to fearlessness, right, and like,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to make things that report on these moments
Speaker 1: where I gain access to like it's yeah, it's almost
Speaker 1: like journalism.
Speaker 3: It's really it's really powerful. It's super powerful I mean
Speaker 3: I feel moved by it personally because it helps me
Speaker 3: think about how if that's your intention behind the work
Speaker 3: you're doing, that's the same as any other And if
Speaker 3: someone is in tension of improving people's lives, that's exactly
Speaker 3: what that's doing simply by that shift. Because yeah, whatever
Speaker 3: we're scared of is holding us back in so many ways,
Speaker 3: and and you know, that's the basic thing we all know,
Speaker 3: but it's very rarely exploreding content as the soul intention,
Speaker 3: like it's you know, yeah, yeah, people think, how do
Speaker 3: we make this make money? Or how do we make
Speaker 3: this make people laugh? How do we make that? And
Speaker 3: those are all like beginnings and ends, they're not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's it's the it's the thing that most has.
Speaker 1: My attention right, Like it's like it's like, all right,
Speaker 1: there's a monster under the bed. Okay, well I could
Speaker 1: sit here, I could eat popcorn, I can watch TV,
Speaker 1: I can think about anything else. Everything in my life
Speaker 1: is about this monster, like until I look, and I
Speaker 1: want to make art about looking.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that. I love that. Jared,
Speaker 3: It's been so awsome talking to you.
Speaker 2: This is great.
Speaker 3: We taking the time, this is I mean, I'm I'm
Speaker 3: genuinely like, this has been one of the most fun
Speaker 3: conversations I've had in a long time. And it's because
Speaker 3: the reason why I do this for myself is I
Speaker 3: love sitting down with people where I don't know where
Speaker 3: things are going, Like I don't know where the conversation
Speaker 3: is going to go. Yeah, yeah, it's fun, and that's
Speaker 3: what I enjoy so much because I was like, I
Speaker 3: just want to get to know this fascinating human like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it feels free, associative and therapeutic. So I
Speaker 1: really appreciate you and you have beautiful lives.
Speaker 3: Ah, that's what, that's what.
Speaker 1: It's almost too powerful. I had to look away a
Speaker 1: couple of times.
Speaker 3: I love it. I love the sound of your voice.
Speaker 3: I can listen to your voice, so we've got equal appreciated.
Speaker 3: I was like, his voice is just so nice.
Speaker 2: We're going to collab on an ASMR channel.
Speaker 3: I'm in, except my eyes don't help them much.
Speaker 2: People gaze and I'll read.
Speaker 3: I'm in. You let me know, but Jered, we end
Speaker 3: every episode with the final five. This is the fast five,
Speaker 3: so the questions have to be answered in one word
Speaker 3: or one sentence maximum wowe word to one sentence? All right.
Speaker 3: The first question is what is the best advice you've
Speaker 3: ever received?
Speaker 2: Don't take advice?
Speaker 3: Yeah, what is the worst advice you've ever received?
Speaker 2: Listen?
Speaker 3: I love it? Question number three, I think we already
Speaker 3: answered this through the podcast, but I always like that,
Speaker 3: how would you describe your current purpose with what you're doing?
Speaker 2: Find truth? Love? That?
Speaker 3: Question number four is what is something that you used
Speaker 3: to value that you don't value anymore?
Speaker 2: Privacy?
Speaker 3: Mm? Why did they? I'm going to go off piece first.
Speaker 3: That's a really interesting answer. You didn't used to value
Speaker 3: privacy before what made you start to value it?
Speaker 1: I realized that a lot of the things that I
Speaker 1: wanted to be private were because I was ashamed of them.
Speaker 1: So I realized that a lot of like people will
Speaker 1: share anything and quickly I'll tell yeah, please, I want
Speaker 1: to know sorry about Like my father that kind of
Speaker 1: represents this thought. Like my father, uh called me and
Speaker 1: asked me one day, like if I was doing stand
Speaker 1: up again, and it's like, so, you're gonna make another
Speaker 1: special And I was like, yeah, why he was like,
Speaker 1: he was like, you're gonna talk about me in it.
Speaker 1: I was like why, why why? And he said because
Speaker 1: you mean and it hurts my feelings. And I was
Speaker 1: like why, Like how am I mean? And he was like,
Speaker 1: you know, you put our business out there like you
Speaker 1: talk about family business.
Speaker 2: I talk about like his you know, the kids.
Speaker 1: That he's had that were a secret for many years,
Speaker 1: and my sexuality and and like and I'm like, one,
Speaker 1: you had all these kids, like you you made it public,
Speaker 1: like you had children, like you made a public you
Speaker 1: call it that, you call it put in our business
Speaker 1: out there because you're ashamed of it. My father, this
Speaker 1: is a man who will talk to any stranger who
Speaker 1: will listen in an I hoop lobby about like his
Speaker 1: open heart surgery and like any private personal like talk
Speaker 1: about his medical history. What anybody will tell everyone his
Speaker 1: son has a television show and his home address, Like,
Speaker 1: but this is private. It's like, no, this is shameful,
Speaker 1: Like this is something you haven't contended with, Like just
Speaker 1: thinking about what privacy means, right, What.
Speaker 3: I f I'm fascinating about that is how does your
Speaker 3: I'm going to tell this is not our fast five
Speaker 3: now and we get to the fifth to one last,
Speaker 3: But how do you find that, as someone who's had
Speaker 3: to go through their shame, go through that, uncover it,
Speaker 3: how do you extend that same process to your father
Speaker 3: and mother and other people you meet, because now you
Speaker 3: know how hard it is to do that, and when
Speaker 3: you see their resistance and reluctance to do it, how
Speaker 3: does that change how you feel about them?
Speaker 2: With their shame, It's hard to be around. It's hard
Speaker 2: to be around.
Speaker 1: And I realized that in some ways extreme and in
Speaker 1: some ways it's a luxury to be able to like
Speaker 1: not talk to certain people in my life, because there
Speaker 1: are kids who feel that way around their parents, and
Speaker 1: I wouldn't suggest.
Speaker 2: That they run away from home, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like but like, so there are people who have jobs
Speaker 1: and reasons that it is they can't be fully truthful
Speaker 1: and I and I do respect that, but I it's
Speaker 1: hard for me again the monster in the bed. If
Speaker 1: there's one thing that it's hard to talk about, then
Speaker 1: it's hard for me to talk about anything. And so
Speaker 1: right now is my family, my mother and my father
Speaker 1: come to terms with me being gay. It's difficult to
Speaker 1: talk to them because we can talk about everything else.
Speaker 1: You know, they watch My Special and like to me
Speaker 1: like the most like the part that aches is the
Speaker 1: part of like me talking about coming out and my
Speaker 1: struggles to be with them, and that was the part
Speaker 1: on the first phone call. And even still like they
Speaker 1: didn't even acknowledge they they went like, oh, I know,
Speaker 1: I know you went through a lot carrying your father's
Speaker 1: secrets and that type of thing. But they didn't talk
Speaker 1: talk about that because they don't want to, and we
Speaker 1: can and I could have a very pleasant relationship with them,
Speaker 1: and that would just feel excruciating to me right now,
Speaker 1: right now, and maybe I'll I don't know if I'll
Speaker 1: become numb or become calloused, and I always pray that
Speaker 1: I don't become better. Yeah, you know, but it's hard.
Speaker 1: It's hard to extend because you can't extend. You can't
Speaker 1: make everyone truthful or say the things that you want
Speaker 1: them to say. Of course, but I am, you know,
Speaker 1: trying to control the relationships I have based on my
Speaker 1: ability to be truthful with you.
Speaker 3: And I love that you're giving yourself the permission to
Speaker 3: do that because I think that is this step process
Speaker 3: towards whatever evolution it goes on. It's like when we
Speaker 3: don't give ourselves permission to be in the uncomfortable of like, well,
Speaker 3: I can't talk about this, so I can't talk about
Speaker 3: anything else. We're like, no, no, I don't want to be
Speaker 3: that because that makes me a bad person, right, A
Speaker 3: lot to be a shame around that.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, No, Permission is a good it's a
Speaker 1: great word.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Otherwise you just live in the cycle. It's crazy
Speaker 2: easy repeat the past to stay in that jail.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you feel a bitterness internally, yes, because you
Speaker 3: never freed yourself.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, you stayed.
Speaker 3: Yeah all right. Fifth and final question of the whole
Speaker 3: interview is if you could create one law that everyone
Speaker 3: in the world had to follow. What would it be.
Speaker 1: I do believe that do unto others stands, you know,
Speaker 1: I think that's probably the it's the golden rule and whatever.
Speaker 1: But like if that were somehow law, do unto others
Speaker 1: as you would have done unto you, from seeing the
Speaker 1: divinity in people to being truthful with people, like the
Speaker 1: things that you want, you know, I think you would
Speaker 1: give more at least.
Speaker 3: You know, Gerard Comic or everyone. I hope just the
Speaker 3: first and many times we get to hang out.
Speaker 1: Yeah more, I feel like I feel like there's still
Speaker 1: like packets.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is the first to many, this is the
Speaker 3: first and man more pockets. And it's always nice get
Speaker 3: into lay the land of someone's foundational thinking and then
Speaker 3: get to learn more. But thank you so much for
Speaker 3: doing this. Any last messages, anything you want to everyone
Speaker 3: who's been listening, watching back at home or whether you're
Speaker 3: in the car or whether you're at work, wherever you are,
Speaker 3: make sure you share what you learned, what you took away,
Speaker 3: any insights that resonated with you. I think for me,
Speaker 3: I'm being called to think about how I can be
Speaker 3: pulled to release any shame I have. How I can
Speaker 3: have more open conversations with my friends about any guilt
Speaker 3: that I'm holding on to. How I can use art
Speaker 3: to move towards my fears as opposed to away from them.
Speaker 3: I think a lot of us think of art as
Speaker 3: an escape from our fears, when actually they can be
Speaker 3: an exploration, as Gerard said today. So I thank Gerard
Speaker 3: for joining us to thank you all. I hope you
Speaker 3: share this episode with someone who needs it, but thank
Speaker 3: you for listening. Thank you so much, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3: If you love this episode, you're going to love my
Speaker 3: conversation with Matthew Hussey on how to get over your
Speaker 3: ex and find true love in your relationships. People should
Speaker 3: be compassionate to themselves that extend that compassion to your
Speaker 3: future self, because truly extending your compassion to your future
Speaker 3: self is doing something that gives him or her a
Speaker 3: shot at a happy and a peaceful life.