WEBVTT - Demi Moore and Her Daughters 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.480 Hey, fam I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:05.840 Red Table Pop podcast, all your favorite episodes from the 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:10.000 Facebook watch show in audio produced by Westbrook Audio and 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:13.120 I Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:16.919 on Apple Podcasts, you guys. I'm so excited that to 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:28.640 Me and her daughters are here. Oh my goodness. To 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.440 Me Moore is making headlines with her explosive new book, 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.720 Inside Out, The number one New York Times bestseller, is 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:38.320 filled with deeply personal accounts of her painful past, including 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:40.440 being raped at fifteen by a man who paid her 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:44.840 mother five dollars. Her deeply troubled mother was an alcoholic 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:49.199 who attempted suicide when Demi was just a child. To 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:52.320 Me struggled with her own addictions, but got sober and 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:56.240 didn't use for almost twenty years. After her divorce from 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:59.640 Bruce Willis, to Me found love again with Ashton Kutcher, 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:05.120 but she relapsed and eventually that marriage ended two Spinning 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:07.440 out of control, Did Me hit a new loan and 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:10.360 she was rushed to the hospital after taking drugs at 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:13.920 a party. She found herself alone and estranged from her family. 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:16.560 Did Me More and her daughter's come to the Red 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:19.240 Table to talk about the pain passed down from parent 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:26.560 to child. Welcome to me and Lula, thank you. This 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:31.120 is such a nice treat. Is I remember doing dinner 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:34.240 with you and Will Bruce and I, Yes, at the 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:36.360 ivy at the shore. You guys, I don't even think 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:39.640 we're married. I don't know. I don't think you were married. Yes, 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:42.640 And then we came to your house in Malibu. Remember. 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:48.120 So what really hit me about your book. I was 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:51.720 reading about your relationship with your mother, reading about your journey, 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:55.880 and then your relationship with your girls, and me thinking 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:58.840 about my relationship with my mother. My mother's twenty eight 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:04.600 years clean, Okay, congratulations, that's incredible, twenty eight years and 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:09.000 then also thinking about Willow. One of the reasons for 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:13.160 the Red Table and to have these generational conversations is 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:16.720 to try to break some of the cycles. I've had 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:20.320 a very codependent life, and I know that even today 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:22.640 when Willow and I were having a conversation about some 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:25.280 decisions as she was making, I was like, here is 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:28.960 the codependency and she got that from me. Well. One 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:32.320 of the things is that I started to look at 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:37.480 issues that say Rumor had with her self esteem, that 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:44.720 didn't not reflect her environment, her insecurity, herself loathing, just 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:48.520 the torture of feeling not good enough, which is exactly 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:51.919 what I had been dealing with for my whole life. 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:55.639 She was carrying my the weight of my issue, and 0:02:56.440 --> 0:02:59.519 I understood where mine came from, but there was a 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:02.960 agree of it that just didn't match from like super 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:06.000 super little And another thing that I found really interesting, 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:08.360 and it's something I know that you're working on. You know, 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:10.200 you can tell your kids I love you, I love 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.120 you so much every day, but if that's not reflected 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:15.800 and how you feel about yourself as the mother, your 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:19.320 kid is gonna pick up on that, you know, and 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:22.400 not be able to necessarily take in. Oh, I'm so 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:25.040 amazing because my mom says I'm amazing. If my mom 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:27.920 doesn't love herself, like, how how can I? How can 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:30.080 I expect her to love her? What did you see 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:33.440 in your mother that you felt was a reflection of 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:36.880 how you felt? Well, steel Um, A lot of the 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:41.400 just like unworthiness, Like I'm innately unlovable somehow, no matter 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:44.040 how I look, what I weigh, like how how my 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:46.680 hair looks at whatever the outside reflection is, there's something 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:49.360 innately about me that I have to earn love from 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:53.520 people and like constantly proved myself that and a lot 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:56.360 of the stuff with men. What about you two, Lula, 0:03:57.000 --> 0:04:00.320 And I think that it's apologizing for being here, which 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:02.960 is language that my mom had and I have used 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:06.360 a lot of trying to figure out where we fit 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:09.040 into the equation and how to find the tiny little 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:12.720 hole to hide into, trying to be invisible, being small 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:16.160 and being invisible and like I'm just gonna hold everything 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:20.839 together and get through and white knuckle, white knucklet And 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:23.120 in the book, she talks about I think one of 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:26.200 the first times she had sex and how she felt 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:28.320 she needed to and how she felt like it was 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:31.719 something expected of her, which is pretty much been my 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:35.360 exact story, and that's not something that we talked about 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:39.200 and shared. I felt like my mom made a choice 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:43.200 to hold back certain things from like sharing about her past, 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:45.200 and I think that always made me feel very far 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:47.760 away from her and always made me feel like I 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:50.719 didn't know her very well. So like I knew she 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:53.560 had a career, she met my dad, she had wropen 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:56.680 New Mexico, but it was like that that was it. 0:04:56.800 --> 0:05:00.760 I don't believe in archaeological digs, emotional archae logical digs 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:03.080 for just the purpose of digging. But I don't think 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:05.920 my mom was raised. She was forged, you know, like 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:10.000 she was she was made, and the strength that comes 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:13.440 from that it's intimidating and it's scary and it's and 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:15.520 and I was growing up it was like I kind 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:19.039 of feel that way about my It's like like towards 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:26.039 in the firefly and the like you know, spark flying everywhere. 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:30.920 I think we deified her. I think she was this 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:34.920 larger than life being and she was. I mean, I'm 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:37.480 completely obsessed with her, like I love her more than 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:41.200 a completely obsessed with my mom. What would you also 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:46.800 say that you guys created a standard for me of 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:51.320 of what you of your expectation that was also greater 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:54.680 than what you would put on anybody else, like my 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:58.760 like my room of my room for error was I 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:01.039 will say, but I will say that, But also I 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:03.880 think that that is a byproduct of im And I'm 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:05.720 not saying this in a blaming way, but I think 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:09.479 that that's also a byproduct of you not necessarily being 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:15.760 weak in front of U. Fine, they're totally fine. All 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:17.400 then in your mind as a kid, You're like, she's 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:22.800 always good. You know, I get that a hundred percent. 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:26.840 You opened the book at a place that really hit me. 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:30.760 I was now completely alone. I was almost fifty. The 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:32.880 husband who I thought was the love of my life 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:35.520 had cheated on me, then decided he didn't want to 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:38.560 work on our marriage. My children weren't speaking to me. 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:41.239 Their father, a friend I had counted on for years 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:44.359 was gone from my life. The career AT scrambled to 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:47.000 create was stalled, or maybe it was over for good. 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:51.000 Everything I was attached to, even my health, had abandoned me. 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:56.400 I looked like I felt destroyed. Lord knows, I've been 0:06:56.400 --> 0:07:00.280 in places in my life where feeling alone end in 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:03.640 and completely shattered. I had done so much work on myself, 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:07.760 and to find myself in a worse place than I've 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:11.240 ever been, it's like, how the did I get here? 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:15.400 And so unraveling all the weight of my mother and 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:19.280 all of those things. But when you're hiding certain things 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:23.000 that you are holding onto, a shame, and that's what 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:27.680 it was. I had a depth of shame that I 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:30.480 held onto that was really like life or death. So 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:32.800 can you explain why you guys weren't talking to your 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:35.920 mom for three years. What happened was she relapsed when 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:38.800 I was nine, and no one in our family spoke 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:41.360 about it, and I had no idea what was going on. 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:44.200 She've been still over my entire childhood. And then she drank, 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:48.400 and then I just knew that I was scared um 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:51.480 and that she was unsafe. And then there was sort 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:54.480 of many years of saying she was sober and she 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:57.080 wasn't and we couldn't trust it, and then all of 0:07:57.080 --> 0:08:00.760 the adults around us, in an effort to protect us, 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:03.800 we're protecting her, and so if she wasn't sober, they 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:05.520 would tell us she was, And so there was a 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:08.240 complete lack of trusted Were you with Ashton then when 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:09.680 she was nine years old? And ness when the re 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:12.480 lefts happened? Yes, how it broke down, like you know, 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:15.840 I opened that door to drinking after almost twenty years, 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:19.800 and you and Ashton were trying to have a baby. 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:23.239 I ended up pregnant and then I lost the baby 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:27.000 at almost six months, and so when I couldn't get 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:33.520 pregnant again, the guilt that I felt that it was 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:38.400 clearly my fault was just enormous. So we went on 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:44.559 this trip and Ashton said, I don't know if alcoholisms 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:48.040 a thing. I think it's about moderation. And if I 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:52.040 had stayed close to working my program, I of course, 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:55.439 like I lived the majority of my adult life sober. 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:59.560 I was great sober I had. I had no what 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:02.679 if think that mental or emotional pull was to he 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:06.360 wanted to be that girl? Yeah I was. I you know, 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:10.319 I made my own story up that he wanted somebody 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:13.760 that he could have wine with and do so he didn't. 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:16.160 He's not the cause of why I opened that door. 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:19.600 I wanted to be something other than who I am, 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:22.520 right and I and I it was literally like giving 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:25.760 my power away. Right. So much of that time, especially 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:28.600 with Ashton, I was so angry because I felt like 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:31.280 something that was mine had been taken away. And I 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:33.800 think also when she wanted to have another baby, it 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:36.079 was like and then it wasn't happening, and then there 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:38.520 was so much focus on that it was like, oh, well, 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:40.880 we're not enough. And part of the reason, like I 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:43.520 moved out of the house was, um, I think after 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:45.680 you had a miscarriage, I literally was just like, why 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:47.679 are you so desperate to have another kid? And I 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:51.640 couldn't stand the idea. But then I found these pictures 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:53.679 and I was like, oh my god, I saw how 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:55.920 bigger stomach was, and I was like, oh my god, 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:59.680 Like I was so insensitive. I never once went to 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:04.600 you and said I'm so sorry, like I'm are you okay? 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:07.080 And I understand, and you know what, I want you 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:11.600 to know that even in your sensitivity, it's okay to 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:15.679 be angry. Yes, absolutely, you know, And that doesn't mean 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:19.680 you don't love your mother, doesn't mean it wasn't just 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:24.760 the addiction or or drinking again, the addiction in the codependency, 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:31.240 like my addiction to Ashton, and that was probably almost 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:40.000 more um devastating, because it it took me seriously away emotionally, 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:45.960 you know, watching the behavior with Ashton those years, because 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:49.240 everyone left the house and it was just me living there, 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:54.000 and I felt very forgotten and I felt like I 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:58.520 developed and I nurtured a narrative that she didn't love me, um, 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:01.800 and I truly believe did and I know that she 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:06.319 does a hundred percent. But in that moment, you're hurt 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:09.080 and you can't fathom that someone that loves you would 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:11.880 do that to you and would choose others more than 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:14.520 you Scout and Tula had very different experiences than I 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:16.880 had when we stopped talking to my mom. They didn't 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:19.440 speak to her for three years. I went in and 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:22.000 out as kind of like the ambassador for the family 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:24.720 because at one point her friends are calling me and 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:26.560 being like, I'm really worried about your mom, like you 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:28.559 need to talk to her, and so then I'm like, Okay, well, 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:31.440 like I have to go and fix this. And then 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:35.200 my family basically kind of like shunned me and kind 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:37.600 of called me a traitor for going to talk to her. 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:39.560 And then I was like, then I'll have no one. 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:42.400 I'll have my mom who's not capable of like being 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:44.320 my mom right now, and then the rest of my 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:47.200 family is just not going to speak to me anymore. Right, 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:51.760 What was it that was scary and unsafe for you 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:55.600 in regards to your mother's re left. It was like 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:59.160 the sun went down and like like like a monster 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:03.920 came out. Like I remember, there's just the anxiety that 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:06.000 would come up in my body when I could sense 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:08.280 like her eyes shedding a little bit more the way 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:11.040 she was speaking, or she would be a lot more 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:14.960 affectionate with me if she wasn't sober and I. It 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:18.240 was starring and it was very weird, and there were 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:22.760 moments where it would get angry, and I recall being 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:26.559 very upset and kind of treating her like a child 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:29.280 and speaking to her like a child and kind of 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:31.920 being like, you know, please get away from me, and 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:33.920 you know she was. She got very angry, and it 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:36.720 would happen in front of friends, and it was it 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:41.720 was not the mom that we had up. My mom 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:45.840 held everything together. You had always chosen us, You would 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:49.200 always put us first and made that a priority. Came 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:52.920 to Idaho, like stopped working. Like being around a woman 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:57.080 as your mother, who is this like infallible woman who 0:12:57.120 --> 0:12:59.640 can take on anything, even my dad? Like all of 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:02.400 these fold that are you know that it's in control 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:05.560 always like always together, always in control, not be in 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:08.720 control around a man like who is this person? I 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:11.800 don't know who this is? And I feel like they're 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:14.160 supposed to be my my rock. They are supposed to 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:17.040 be the one who is like and especially it's even 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:22.679 more I think exaggerated or exacerbated because your baseline was 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:25.080 so the opposite. Yeah, you know, it's not like this 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:29.680 was what they knew, completely different. That's that's what I'm 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:33.559 that's what I'm hearing. Dem says that her rock bottom 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:38.520 happened one night at a party. After nearly twenty years 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:42.200 of sobriety, Demi hit a terrifying low at a birthday party. 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:47.360 She took a puff of synthetic pot and nitrous oxide 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:58.880 and everything went blurry. She overdosing. She yelled no because 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:04.000 she knew what would come. The ambulance, the paparazzi, and 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:07.800 then TMZ announcing to me more rushed to the hospital 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:14.080 on drugs. I was there in the other room with 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:16.680 nine one one panicking because I'm like, all right, either 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:18.160 my mom's gonna die and I'm not going to be 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:19.840 in the room and I'm going to feel the guilt 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:21.760 of that for the rest of my life, or I'm 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:23.640 gonna be there and see this image of my mom 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:25.120 and that I will never get out of my head. 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:26.920 So like what I do, and I'm gonna have to 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.280 call my sisters in the morning and tell them that 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:30.840 my mom died and They're never going to talk to 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:33.560 her again. And I took her to rehab on the plane, 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:35.160 which was the scariest thing I've ever had to do 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:38.880 in my life. Do you refer to yourself as an addict. 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:43.200 I fully identify as an addict alcoholic. I think my 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:46.440 whole nature is really all or nothing. I have two 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:49.760 speeds go and go faster, and I do not have 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:53.800 an off switch. In January, I'll have eight years sober. 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:57.160 But it's interesting, though, Like I never heard you use 0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:00.600 language like that necessarily, and so I remember even like 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:03.920 having a lot of frustration towards you in the times, 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:06.600 like you called going away to treatment camp. You know, 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:08.520 like I had so much of this un dealt with 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:12.240 anger that I hadn't let out because I didn't understand 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:14.320 what was going on. And I think at the time 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:18.520 I didn't have a healthy relationship with alcohol either. So 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:23.640 when did when did your abuse start? When this stuff 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:27.720 when I stopped talking to my mom, then it kind 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:31.080 of kicked up into high gear and I literally started 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:35.760 getting anxiety attacks about how bad I was going to 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.720 feel the next day. So I would be drunk and 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:42.480 be start like hyperventilating and and freak out and like 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:46.000 made my friend called nine one one. I definitely think 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:51.240 that my addiction lies more so in the like love 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:54.760 addict codependency. How old were you when you had your 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:58.800 first dream? I was six Wow really okay, wait wait 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:03.240 wait wait Jamaican room. And then it was Johnny Walker. 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:10.120 Oh yeah, I was were on family vacation. Uh fair. 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:13.400 It was Champain like, it was very like, it was sweet. 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:17.360 And then when I was fifteen, I guzzled vodka and 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:22.640 I almost died from alcohol poisoning. And then I think 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:28.200 when my mom began to really when things were very painful, 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:32.400 that's when I began to drink heavily. Lula had lived 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:34.400 with me for a little while and I was like, 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:37.440 there are three wine bottles on the bedside table and 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:39.640 like that. And then all of a sudden, my medicine 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.360 was going missing, and so then I was like, I 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:44.320 love you, you cannot stay with me anymore. So she 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:50.800 got some like scary apartment, and then my dad relocated 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:53.160 me to the hotel. He didn't really know what to 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.640 do with me. To be honest, my dad didn't understand 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:58.200 that once a child graduates from high school that you 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:01.480 still have to take care of them. I honestly truly 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:05.399 don't think he recalled that. So we're saying that every 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:09.280 hotel and our little sister was about to be born. Okay, 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:12.359 so you're talking about your dad, Bruce's baby. Yeah, And 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:15.800 then Scout came in to tell me and I had 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:18.000 taken a bunch of coding and I had done a 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:20.560 bunch of cocaine that morning, and Scout couldn't wake me 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:23.480 up and she was shaking me, and she called me 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:25.200 and she's like, I can't wake till and so when 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:28.480 I finally woke up, she was crying, and I made 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:30.679 her feel horrible about it, and I was like, whatever, 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:33.160 let me just go back to bed. And then I 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:35.600 woke up a few hours later and I was just 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:39.920 hysterically crying because it was like the first window of sobriety, 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:42.600 of of you know, before you those tiny five minutes 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:46.159 that you wake up before you start using again, and um, 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:49.520 the feeling was like you just have death on your bones. 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:53.240 I had no regard for my life. I had no care. 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:57.920 So my dad got involved and he threatened. She sent 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:01.160 me to a meetings as a punished, which didn't really 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:04.560 make any sense. Scout and I basically had like an intervention, 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:08.960 and I called Rumor and I said, you need to 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:11.159 take me to Mom's house today. At this point, we 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:13.439 were coming up on three years of not speaking. I 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:16.159 started living with her that day. Yeah, and I went 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:19.760 to treatment. Um my choice, my choice, I asked to 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:22.880 go Wow, And when we did to Ulla's family week 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:25.800 was the first time the five of our immediate family 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:27.960 had been together. And I don't even know how long. 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:30.240 It was intense. I don't know if you can relate 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:31.960 to this, but growing up the way that we did, 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:34.960 I felt that we weren't allowed to have pain because 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:37.399 we had so much. When we first started talking to 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:40.520 my mom again, she would always like, my perception was 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:42.879 that it was like, you guys did this to me. 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:44.920 You guys stopped talking to me. There were like the 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:46.920 words that she would use, like the rug got pulled 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:49.119 out from under me, and she would be like, I 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:51.200 just could never understand what I did. That was so 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:54.119 bad because I saw us playing the victim. Were listen, 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:56.919 we're very good at that. Yeah, we're very good at 0:18:57.000 --> 0:19:00.720 playing the victim. Do you agree? I do. I played 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:03.239 a lot of victim on the side too, Yeah, and 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:07.119 not being willing to accept the damage that we have caused. 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:09.560 And I get it, But what about how I felt 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:11.439 all those time that I didn't want to tell you, Like, 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:14.360 what about like there's this part of me that wants 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:16.120 to be like I want to have an itemized list 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:18.639 of all of the nights that I felt wronged or 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:23.080 whatever it is, but also wanting to be validated for 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:28.680 like how awful that was. Do you get that to me? Yeah? No, totally. 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:32.159 And the thing is is I feel like I was 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:38.439 actually like constantly trying to invite them to please I'm 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:41.720 you know, and and I did a lot reaching out 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:45.879 and no one responding. I didn't want to do it. 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:48.400 There was just a fear of like, whenever we tried 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:50.320 to bring something up to you, she's just going to 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:54.359 find a way to like turn it into something that 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:58.080 where she doesn't really have to take responsibility, but she's 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:05.159 not not taking responsibility. I was defensive at feeling like 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:09.160 they weren't really seeing me where I was. But in life, 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:14.400 the reaction to something doesn't necessarily always happened in its 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:17.640 real time. And I think what was occurring is that 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:23.480 their reaction of what was coming was not about behavior 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:27.359 that had been in that immediate past. It was from before. 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:32.199 And what I was wrestling with was sitting there doing 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:37.280 what I felt they had asked and being left. And 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:41.680 I totally understand that, and I just know even with Willow. 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:45.280 I've had to just to sit with Willow and have 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:48.840 her reality and have her pain, let it burn, and 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:53.840 have forgiveness for myself around it. And really, even if 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:56.359 it wasn't what I meant to do, even if that 0:20:56.520 --> 0:21:00.959 wasn't my attention as a recovering addict, I understand that 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:04.000 it's not a guarantee that people that you've hurt in 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:07.040 your life, people who have been damaged by your behavior 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:10.679 and your decisions, are going to remain in your life, 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:15.160 you know. And I've always been so grateful that, um, 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:17.680 you know, Jada never gave up on me, She never 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:21.679 gave up on us, and she was always there. I 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:24.120 wanted her to show and prove to me that I'm 0:21:24.160 --> 0:21:26.919 important enough for you to get sober. I want you 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:29.600 to show me that being in my life is worth 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:33.879 more than any drug, any man, like anything. Yeah, and 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:36.440 that's the most human thing that you could possibly think, 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:38.480 Like this is hurting you. I should be enough for 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:43.720 you to not hurt yourself. She's holding this perception that Okay, 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:46.280 you'll do this if you love me, and if you don't, 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:50.560 you don't love me, which is a setup also to 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:53.880 like know a and but you know at that time 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:56.879 of being in so in it get desperate. Yeah, I 0:21:56.960 --> 0:21:59.200 was desperate. I was like, I have to do something. 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:00.879 There's no one that I can trust. I have no 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:04.840 idea what's happening. It's been so bad, and it's like 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:06.680 someone comes over to your house in the middle of 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:09.439 the night and they break everything in your house, and 0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:11.320 the next morning it's like you don't get to talk 0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:14.560 about it. Yeah, it was like a pressure cooker because 0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:20.199 it had been seven eight years of silent suffering. I 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:23.159 have a really hard time expressing anger. Or then I 0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:25.000 would be like I can handle it, I can do it, 0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:27.800 like it's fine, I'll just and then I always then 0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:31.040 take it on myself. I'll tell you this from personal experience. 0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:34.840 I've held onto so much anger and it has turned 0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:38.919 into so much rage. And the sneaky thing about rage 0:22:39.600 --> 0:22:42.119 and anger and how it becomes its own thing and 0:22:42.200 --> 0:22:45.560 you don't even you don't even recognize it until you 0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:47.440 look around you and you go, oh my god, there's 0:22:47.480 --> 0:22:49.480 a lot of score stirs around me, and it just pops, 0:22:49.520 --> 0:22:52.199 It just pops up right. And it's because it's just 0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:55.480