Speaker 1: Everybody, and welcome to another edition of the Dave Pash Podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm your host. ESPN and Cardinals broadcast to Dave Pash.
Speaker 1: What it came on Sunday in Las Vegas. An incredible finish,
Speaker 1: hopefully a springboard to returning to early season twenty twenty
Speaker 1: one form as the Cardinals welcome the defending champs, the
Speaker 1: Rams to town this Sunday. We're going to talk about
Speaker 1: that game. We're going to talk about the miraculous win
Speaker 1: for Arizona on Sunday with Kevin Clark, senior football writer
Speaker 1: and podcaster at The Ringer. He's the host of the
Speaker 1: Slow Newsday video podcast. He's great to talk about for NFL,
Speaker 1: for college football, and he was like us, in shock
Speaker 1: over what we saw Sunday in Vegas and in particular
Speaker 1: what Kyler Murray did against the Raiders. When you see
Speaker 1: a comeback like that, you understand how valuable Kyler Murray's
Speaker 1: to the franchise and how much he can do on
Speaker 1: a game to game basis, to where not only is
Speaker 1: no game out of reach, but no play is out
Speaker 1: of reach. That's a special talent. Kevin will also talk
Speaker 1: about the forty nine ers, his thoughts on Jimmy Garoppolo
Speaker 1: and what this means for Cardinal fans and other teams
Speaker 1: in the NFC. He'll break down the Packers and some
Speaker 1: of the other teams in the NFL. We'll also talk
Speaker 1: about what's going on at Arizona State with the departure
Speaker 1: of Herm Edwards and who could be next as the
Speaker 1: head coach of the Sun Devils. We are presented by BETMGM,
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Speaker 1: All right, now, let's hear from our guests. From the ringer,
Speaker 1: Kevin clark Well, Kevin, first of all, you have a
Speaker 1: hard act to follow, because our guest last week, Damian
Speaker 1: Lillard of the Portland Trailblazers, brought the Cardinals some incredible
Speaker 1: luck if you can top this, or maybe let's have it,
Speaker 1: so there's no need for the comeback. We'll just take
Speaker 1: a big win over the Rams this Sundays at work.
Speaker 1: That's a big one. The Rams are a lot better
Speaker 1: team than the Raiders. But no, that's I'm I'm happy
Speaker 1: to bring the juice and happy to bring the luck
Speaker 1: to Arizona. So this is the first time you and
Speaker 1: I have actually talked. I think I don't believe we
Speaker 1: have met, but I'm a big so I'm a big fan.
Speaker 1: You do a great job. That's one of the reasons
Speaker 1: I want to have you on. I really enjoy your work,
Speaker 1: whether it's your columns or the podcasting. All the stuff
Speaker 1: you do is great. And you've got like one hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty five thousand followers, so you have quite the
Speaker 1: following on social media, and I've heard you on other platforms.
Speaker 1: Tell our listeners primarily most of the people listening are
Speaker 1: Cardinal fans, So tell our listeners a little bit about
Speaker 1: your background, how you got to where you are, because
Speaker 1: I think you're only in your earlier mid thirties. You
Speaker 1: graduated from Miami right in twenty ten. I did yep, yep.
Speaker 1: So I we're going to company called The Ringer Rome
Speaker 1: by Spotify, and that means we kind of do everything, Davis.
Speaker 1: You know, I guess we all do everything now in media.
Speaker 1: Nobody's just a writer, nobody's just a podcaster or a broadcaster.
Speaker 1: Um and So I started at the Wall Street Journal
Speaker 1: right out of college. We wrote a bunch on the Cardinals.
Speaker 1: UM social day in the Bruce Arian days. Uh you know,
Speaker 1: well I was sat the first time I ever went there.
Speaker 1: I remember a Dave. I don't know if you're around
Speaker 1: for it, but it was when they had so Bruce
Speaker 1: had got had Tom Moore on staff, and he had
Speaker 1: had a had a defensive line coach who had coached
Speaker 1: in Super Bowl one. This is twenty thirteen, okay, and
Speaker 1: and so so Bruce had assembled all of these guys
Speaker 1: who just you know, he wanted them to mentor his
Speaker 1: younger coaches. Um. You think about all the all the
Speaker 1: great talent on that staff back then, um in the
Speaker 1: kind of the first any run of the Cardinals at
Speaker 1: the beginning of the last decade. UM and So I
Speaker 1: worked to the Wall Street Journal and then got hired
Speaker 1: by the Ringer and I just I just kind of
Speaker 1: cover the league as a whole um, you know, and
Speaker 1: it's it's as fun as anything because there's so many
Speaker 1: different ways to podcast, videocast. You know, you're gonna have
Speaker 1: Scott Vanpel on my video show tomorrow. Like it's such
Speaker 1: a cool era for media because you can kind of
Speaker 1: create whatever, and you have athletes like Tyler Murray who
Speaker 1: get it on all platforms and and and are interesting
Speaker 1: and it's just a fascinating time in the media. Well,
Speaker 1: you mentioned the staff that BA put together when he
Speaker 1: got here. This is my twenty first year, so I've
Speaker 1: seen quite a few coaches come through here. When I
Speaker 1: got here, mean, Joe Green was an assistant on the staff,
Speaker 1: and the following year, Emmett Smith was an Arizona Cardinal.
Speaker 1: I mean people forget, yeah, that Emmett was here with
Speaker 1: the Cardinals. Um, so you're you're doing mostly NFL, but
Speaker 1: I do see you tweeting on college sports as well,
Speaker 1: So I want to hit on that, especially with locally
Speaker 1: anyway here the news with Arizona State. I just happened
Speaker 1: to be doing Arizona State Utah this Saturday. So a
Speaker 1: lot going on there, a lot to talk about obviously
Speaker 1: with her edwards being let go or not let go,
Speaker 1: depending on how you read the press release, right, we've
Speaker 1: got to I think I've a pretty good idea what
Speaker 1: happened there. Yeah, me too, But we've got to figure
Speaker 1: that out and pass through it all at ESPN to
Speaker 1: make sure we, you know, say it the right way
Speaker 1: journalistically on Saturday night. What were your thoughts though when
Speaker 1: you're watching the game on Sunday? First of all, what
Speaker 1: were your thoughts at halftime when it was twenty to nothing?
Speaker 1: Because my thoughts were, my, goodness, this feels like last week,
Speaker 1: which feels like last year, which feels like a losing season.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, bab, you've been around from your
Speaker 1: team for two decades. You can lose the season pretty easily.
Speaker 1: And I think I'm staring at that. And I watched
Speaker 1: that that first sat pretty closely because I just wanted
Speaker 1: to see how they played Davanta Adams. By the way
Speaker 1: they did it actually a nicer job than the Chargers
Speaker 1: did a week before, and a lot of those in
Speaker 1: the Adams routes. But I was watching that game and
Speaker 1: when I saw it was twenty and nothing, I just
Speaker 1: started to say, here we go. Again, which I'm sure
Speaker 1: a lot of Cardinals fans thought, maybe some of the players,
Speaker 1: maybe the staff of diffront office. I mean, there's just
Speaker 1: a I feel like there was there was a way
Speaker 1: that game could have gone that was created a lot
Speaker 1: of pessimism, and the good news is the comeback was
Speaker 1: frankly astounding to the point that you see what Kyler
Speaker 1: Murray is capable of. And when you get the type
Speaker 1: of contract Kyler has gotten, you know, one of the
Speaker 1: things that I always wonder and I don't think you know,
Speaker 1: you think about all of the huge, mega contracts they
Speaker 1: were going around with quarterbacks. Now, not all of them
Speaker 1: create value. Some of them are just like good enough
Speaker 1: to play quarterback, and you know, and we're gonna give
Speaker 1: him twenty five million dollars or thirty million dollars a
Speaker 1: year because he's there, right, you're kind of stuck there.
Speaker 1: I mean, that was always the kind of Andy Dalton
Speaker 1: problem right in Cincinnati, which is you got to pay
Speaker 1: a guy twenty five million dollars up the kaplan, maybe
Speaker 1: you should have just rolled it over and gotten a
Speaker 1: rookie contractor or at quarterback, you know, going forward, So
Speaker 1: when you see a comeback like that, and I didn't
Speaker 1: ever think Kyler was in that bucket. But when you
Speaker 1: see a comeback like that, you understand how valuable Kyler
Speaker 1: Murray is to the franchise and how much he can
Speaker 1: do on a game to game basis, to where not
Speaker 1: only is no game out of reach, but no play
Speaker 1: is out of reach. I mean, how many games, how
Speaker 1: many plays in the game yesterday did you see and say, Okay,
Speaker 1: this one's over and then Kyler made it happen. That's
Speaker 1: a special talent And I don't listen. I don't think
Speaker 1: he's ready to be a kind of top ten, you know,
Speaker 1: super Bowl level of talent, but he the path is
Speaker 1: a lot shorter than people think. And I think that
Speaker 1: there's been an extremely weird narrative around him, especially since
Speaker 1: the second half of last season. But I think we're
Speaker 1: starting to see and if he didn't think this, you
Speaker 1: do now. Kyler is a special, special guy who's worth
Speaker 1: the money and worth the attack. Interview got when when
Speaker 1: he got into this a few years ago. Day. So
Speaker 1: you have on a lot of players, coaches. You mentioned
Speaker 1: you have SVP on, so you're constantly talking to people
Speaker 1: that are dialed into the NFL in your opinion, and
Speaker 1: do you think that others would share this opinion? Did
Speaker 1: what happened yesterday? Is that enough to flip a season,
Speaker 1: to flip a franchise, because it's not just a play
Speaker 1: that could turn around this season. It can turn around
Speaker 1: all the bad narrative from last year as well. I mean,
Speaker 1: so much of that has to do with this this week,
Speaker 1: because what how do you how do you measure up
Speaker 1: against the Rams, who are not only the class of
Speaker 1: of the division, but the class of the NFL. Um
Speaker 1: that to me, it is fascinating. There was now a
Speaker 1: stat I saw, Um, then you have obviously the Panthers,
Speaker 1: after that, the Eagles after that, Seahawks stains, but there's
Speaker 1: some winnable games in that stretch day. There was a
Speaker 1: stat I saw yesterday. There was astounding that that I
Speaker 1: think that the Cardinals have won like eighth straighte games,
Speaker 1: have won outright eighth right games when they're a road underdog.
Speaker 1: They're a team that has the mentality that is really
Speaker 1: fascinating to me. They can go in and win places
Speaker 1: that maybe other teams can and so obviously they've got
Speaker 1: the home game against the Rams, but then they go
Speaker 1: on the road a lot in October and November against
Speaker 1: some pretty interesting teams, and I think that they can.
Speaker 1: They were a playoff team a year ago. They had
Speaker 1: the talent to do this. Like I think that, as
Speaker 1: I said earlier, the Vibes were heading in a bad direction,
Speaker 1: that they lose that game yesterday, But I completely agree
Speaker 1: with you that this is set up for maybe a
Speaker 1: better season than we thought. And it all comes down
Speaker 1: to that half. The last time the Cardinals saw the Rams,
Speaker 1: it was ugly. I was there, and it was Even
Speaker 1: though the Cardinals played poorly down the stretch in the
Speaker 1: regular season, it went to another level in the postseason.
Speaker 1: It was just an outright disaster on a lot of levels.
Speaker 1: But early last season the Cardinals, people forget nominated the Rams.
Speaker 1: It was one of the worst games the Rams played
Speaker 1: all year. Aaron Donald was completely shut down. They could
Speaker 1: do nothing against the Cardinals. Now, again, that was a
Speaker 1: year ago. So much has changed since then. How do
Speaker 1: you look at this matchup because what I've seen from
Speaker 1: the Rams so far is similar to last year because
Speaker 1: the Rams got hot in the postseason. It came down
Speaker 1: to week the final week of the season. The Cardinals
Speaker 1: had to lose at home and the Rams had to
Speaker 1: win for them to win the division. Things might have
Speaker 1: changed if the Cardinals win that final game of the
Speaker 1: regular season. So do you view the Rams kind of
Speaker 1: the same or do you think they're better this year
Speaker 1: than they were in the regular season last year? No,
Speaker 1: I mean, I listen that first game with the Rams
Speaker 1: was certainly concerning that with the Bills. But well, I'll
Speaker 1: say about the Rams, is I think that And this
Speaker 1: happens a lot of the time where a team will
Speaker 1: make a run in January and exactly what you're saying,
Speaker 1: we kind of reverse engineer that they were the best
Speaker 1: team the entire time as long as they're you talked
Speaker 1: about in the national media is good and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: And I have a good coach, have a good quarterback.
Speaker 1: And essentially because I did a piece on Matt Lafleur
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago, Dave, and one of the
Speaker 1: things that Sean McVay told Matt Lafleur is that he
Speaker 1: views the playoffs like March madness. And what he means
Speaker 1: by that is it's not the best team that wins,
Speaker 1: it's the best team that wins over a three hour space, right,
Speaker 1: And so he started to engineer, like, how do I
Speaker 1: mac McVay, how do I maximize those three hours? Because
Speaker 1: it's not about October, it's not about November fifth, it's
Speaker 1: about January tenth. And so I think the way McVey
Speaker 1: started to view the postseason helps him. Last year. I
Speaker 1: don't think you know, in the regular season, we saw
Speaker 1: the Cardinals and the Rams were not that far off,
Speaker 1: and so this is about I think that playoff experience
Speaker 1: is its own beast. I think that the Cardinals obviously
Speaker 1: got their doors blown off in that in that spot
Speaker 1: last time I played the Rams. But I think that
Speaker 1: that just comes from experience, not just just Cliff Kingsbury
Speaker 1: at the NFL level, but Kyler Murray getting those represent
Speaker 1: I mean not you have to be a special special
Speaker 1: team in order to make a deep run on the
Speaker 1: playoffs is not any playoff experience. It's a completely different beast,
Speaker 1: especially with the expanded playoffs. It's just different. And I
Speaker 1: think a guy like Sean McVey understood that. I mean,
Speaker 1: by the way, that's why you go out and get
Speaker 1: Matthew Stafford because you understand how much talent it takes
Speaker 1: once you get to the final four, once you get
Speaker 1: to the final two in the conference. You know that,
Speaker 1: That to me is understanding the barrier for entry. And
Speaker 1: so a team like the Cardinals, great quarterback, a lot
Speaker 1: of talent all over the place. What they need to
Speaker 1: do over the next two or three years become a
Speaker 1: super Bowl team is to do those kind of big swings.
Speaker 1: But I don't think on any given on a week
Speaker 1: to week basis that there's some huge gap between the
Speaker 1: Cardinals and the rest of division. I was like an
Speaker 1: idiot Dave last year when I think I went on
Speaker 1: Calvert and I was just joking about. I was like, man,
Speaker 1: you know, prais the Cliff Kings because she's got the
Speaker 1: NFCU West to deal with. Meanwhile, I didn't know that
Speaker 1: they they had to deal with the Cardinals, you know.
Speaker 1: And so I've already learned my lesson on that stuff
Speaker 1: as far as saying, oh, you know, the Cardinals can
Speaker 1: hang with these teams. They can hang with it, and
Speaker 1: a lot of it has to deal with the quarterback
Speaker 1: and the roster. You bring up an interesting point about
Speaker 1: the postseason, because we can say all we want that
Speaker 1: it is different than the regular season. It is its
Speaker 1: own animal. But till you're in the middle of it.
Speaker 1: Maybe you don't realize that, and that I think had
Speaker 1: a lot to do with what happened last year. For
Speaker 1: a lot of people that are members of the Cardinals,
Speaker 1: it's a young roster in twenty twenty one, it's Kyler
Speaker 1: Murray's first postseason game. It's different than college football, it's
Speaker 1: different than high school obviously. It's just you cannot possibly
Speaker 1: prepare mentally for what that's like. Do you think having
Speaker 1: gone through that and then what Kyler did on Sunday
Speaker 1: the comeback? There were some games last year and even
Speaker 1: going back to his rookie year, where the Cardinals would
Speaker 1: come back, but usually the game went how it started.
Speaker 1: If Kyler played great early on, the Cardinals usually won
Speaker 1: the game. If the Cardinals struggled offensively early on and
Speaker 1: got behind, they usually didn't win the game. It feels
Speaker 1: like they took this big step. So I'm kind of
Speaker 1: jumping around here talking about the postseason last year in
Speaker 1: Week two this year, But do you see a correlation
Speaker 1: maybe to a young quarterback growing so when the opportunity
Speaker 1: presents itself again, just like a different Matthew Stafford. After
Speaker 1: losing those playoff games in Detroit, He's better suited to
Speaker 1: have success. Yeah, I mean you think about it. The
Speaker 1: answer is yes. The big overarching answer is yes, Well
Speaker 1: you think about it. It's so many little things. How
Speaker 1: do you rest on a playoff week? When do you
Speaker 1: step on the gas? When do you knock? Do you
Speaker 1: go full pads Wednesday or Thursday or both? You know,
Speaker 1: I mean stuff like that, because you know, you're basically
Speaker 1: all the rules were set, all the practice rules buncharted waters.
Speaker 1: Are you a betteran team or a young team? There's
Speaker 1: so many different things, and so I think Dick listening
Speaker 1: last playoff game for the Cardinals was a complete disaster.
Speaker 1: The entire national picture looked at that media whomever and said,
Speaker 1: this is bad. Something's got to change, right. But I
Speaker 1: do think there's a case to be made kind of
Speaker 1: like what we're talking about, where it can only go
Speaker 1: up because they understand what this is about, and they
Speaker 1: understand the team. Like the Rams has been there many
Speaker 1: different times and upgraded the talent and kind of got
Speaker 1: above the barrier for enter to be a super Bowl
Speaker 1: type team. The Cardinals understand what that looks like. You know,
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of discussion about the extensions. Obviously
Speaker 1: they were handed out before the Kyler murray, before the
Speaker 1: mc murray contract, But at least the Cardinals know what
Speaker 1: they are for the next few years and then they
Speaker 1: can go from there. So I think that this structure
Speaker 1: making the playoffs, like I do, think at some point
Speaker 1: you're going to break through and make a run because
Speaker 1: you understand what it's all about and you got the
Speaker 1: quarterback to do it. When you look at Sean McVay,
Speaker 1: in your opinion, what's the secret sauce to his success?
Speaker 1: Because I've talked to so many people, whether it's coaches
Speaker 1: or players, former players that played for Sean McVay, or
Speaker 1: current players that played for Sean McVay when he was
Speaker 1: an assistant coach, and everybody says, we always knew, we
Speaker 1: always knew that he was going to have success. And sometimes,
Speaker 1: you know, you talked to coaches about a particularly successful
Speaker 1: coach and they'll say, well, Phil Jackson, for example in
Speaker 1: the NBA, people say, well, look you had Michael Jordan
Speaker 1: and Kobe Bryant, but still all those championships. There's something
Speaker 1: you're doing right besides just having talents. So what do
Speaker 1: you think it is with Sean McVeigh. I think a
Speaker 1: couple of things. Number one is that players buy them
Speaker 1: when they know they're going to make plays and be
Speaker 1: put in position to win, right, And so that that's
Speaker 1: number one. Number two is I think there's a leadership
Speaker 1: element to it that I think goes overlooked, and I
Speaker 1: think the people did see Sean McVey is this guy
Speaker 1: in a lab coming up with man beaters. And it's
Speaker 1: it's not that it's not just the plays, it's understanding
Speaker 1: his roster really well. It's passion. Um, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: like just just something as little as I asked to
Speaker 1: talk to him for the Matt before piece and he
Speaker 1: was on the phone with me twelve hours later, um,
Speaker 1: and and just so excited it talked about Matt And
Speaker 1: you know, one of the funny things was he was
Speaker 1: laying it on a little thick game where he was saying,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't I didn't. I didn't teach Matt anything.
Speaker 1: Because I said, hey, hey, did you uh you know
Speaker 1: what what he what did Matt take from me that
Speaker 1: you now see you on the field. He's like, I didn't,
Speaker 1: I didn't teach Matt anything. He taught me. You know.
Speaker 1: It's that kind of stuff. And there's this there's this compassion,
Speaker 1: there's this human element um where he's just like just
Speaker 1: a good person. I think that that that's the read
Speaker 1: I get from it. The guys want to be around him,
Speaker 1: guys want to play for him, um, and so it
Speaker 1: all fits together. And i'd also say that he opens
Speaker 1: up his football world to his assistance and I think
Speaker 1: he learned that a little bit from Kylie Shanahan as well.
Speaker 1: And I think you see the kind of Shanahan McVay
Speaker 1: tree have success, not just because play action and all
Speaker 1: that stuff just helps and maximize is your value on
Speaker 1: a football field, and there's certain concepts that just really
Speaker 1: work against modern defenses. There's that, But on the other hand,
Speaker 1: they just understand what it means to be a head
Speaker 1: coach very early because you've heard stories. You know, everybody
Speaker 1: in New England is pretty siloed and they don't necessarily
Speaker 1: learn everything that Bill Belichick has to offer. Because of that,
Speaker 1: the McVeigh tree is that is way more open, way
Speaker 1: more honest, I would say, amongst the group. And so
Speaker 1: you're seeing just it's a different vibe in Los Angeles
Speaker 1: and people want to be there. And then once that happens,
Speaker 1: everything starts to build on itself. You know, Kevin Demoff,
Speaker 1: who's basically their team president without the title, said to
Speaker 1: me one time that the best kind of inefficiency or
Speaker 1: the best competitive advantage is the way you put it
Speaker 1: is winning, because once you start winning, people just say, hey,
Speaker 1: I'll actually take the million and a half dollar contract
Speaker 1: to play here instead of the five million dollar contract
Speaker 1: to play in Jacksonville. Whatever it is, right, And that's
Speaker 1: we're seeing. We're seeing this set up now in Los
Speaker 1: Angeles where it's becoming a bit of a machine because
Speaker 1: people are attracted to it and will take less money,
Speaker 1: and then that just keeps on building. Kevin. Looking at
Speaker 1: some of the other interesting stories in the NFL. In
Speaker 1: the NFC West San Francisco, I am more fearful now
Speaker 1: with the forty nine ers that Jimmy Garoppolo is back
Speaker 1: under center, just because every move that John Lynch and
Speaker 1: Kyle Shanahan made in the last month and a half
Speaker 1: screamed we don't trust Trey Lance. And that's unfortunate what
Speaker 1: happened to him. You hate it to see a guy
Speaker 1: go down like that and lose this whole season. But
Speaker 1: I think the forty nine ers are going to be
Speaker 1: better because of it, given Jimmy G's previous success. Not
Speaker 1: saying he's Patrick Mahomes, but this guy's been to a
Speaker 1: super Bowl, been to an NFC Championship game? Am I right?
Speaker 1: Should should Cardinal fans be more fearful of the forty
Speaker 1: nine ers right now? One hundred percent? You are correct.
Speaker 1: I mean that the entire last month, I mean bringing
Speaker 1: Meg even back in the first place, all to talk
Speaker 1: about sort of a I wouldn't call a locker room descent,
Speaker 1: because I don't think there was any of that. But
Speaker 1: there was a report that basically Kyle and John Lynch
Speaker 1: should ask the veterans and the locker room to have
Speaker 1: trades back because they knew how popular Jimmy was, and
Speaker 1: there was it seemed like there was a lot of
Speaker 1: requests for buying when I think people probably knew that
Speaker 1: the best chance to win in week one or week
Speaker 1: two was with Jimmy Garoppolo. And so you don't go
Speaker 1: through that process, you don't go to that learning curve,
Speaker 1: you don't do anything, and now what you what you're
Speaker 1: left with is an NFC Championship caliber team. They almost
Speaker 1: won this time in January. The last season and there's
Speaker 1: nothing they have to press the reset button on. This
Speaker 1: is a dangerous team with a good coach and a
Speaker 1: quarterback and said run the offense. Listen. John Lynch was
Speaker 1: in our, Kyle Shanahan was in Peter Things column today
Speaker 1: basically saying, listen, they they've lost They're starting quarterback four
Speaker 1: out of the last six years. Most of the time
Speaker 1: that was Jimmy. But if Jimmy can stay healthy, the
Speaker 1: ceiling is really high. It's always been a question of health.
Speaker 1: And so if he could finish the season, I get
Speaker 1: a division contending team, the Green Bay Packers. You just
Speaker 1: touched on that you had spoken recently with Matt Laflour
Speaker 1: did a piece on him, who without Davante Adams, are
Speaker 1: they as good as they were last year? And did
Speaker 1: you get any insight into why they continue to struggle
Speaker 1: in the postseason, especially at home? Hey, they asked themselves
Speaker 1: that question all the time. I mean, it's so funny
Speaker 1: because you know, there's haven't been around sports so long.
Speaker 1: There's so many teams that won three or four championships
Speaker 1: in a row, or made three or four championships in
Speaker 1: a row, and one two of them, where if you
Speaker 1: just go back six months before the first title. They're
Speaker 1: all these stories now they can't win the big one
Speaker 1: right where they can't break through Like this happens all
Speaker 1: the time in sports, and it's true until you don't
Speaker 1: you know that McVeigh rams probably left a ring or
Speaker 1: two on the on the table if you're just looking
Speaker 1: at look at up from three thou thirty thousand feet
Speaker 1: m But I think that with the Packers, at some point,
Speaker 1: I think this will be the year they will break through.
Speaker 1: And I don't think they know why they struggle. I
Speaker 1: think a little bit of it is, you know, it's
Speaker 1: a lot of coaches who are familiar with Matt Lafleur
Speaker 1: understand the offense. Aaron Rodgers in the cold, he says
Speaker 1: it's an advantage, but is a play calling and vis
Speaker 1: the offense kind of had that advantage still when it's
Speaker 1: five degrees or whatever it is. Obviously the special team
Speaker 1: is mistakes last year were unbelievable and they went out
Speaker 1: and upgraded that and so Rich Bapaccia being there is
Speaker 1: a huge, huge, huge upgrade in Green Bay, and so
Speaker 1: I don't know why they struggle with Davante Adams in particular,
Speaker 1: fishing because I think they're going to run the ball more.
Speaker 1: We saw that last night. Lafleur basically hinted at it
Speaker 1: when we had our long talk. But Aaron Rodgers said
Speaker 1: he thought that over the course of the season is
Speaker 1: going to be a similar amount of targets, a similar
Speaker 1: amount of passes. And the reason the offense was built
Speaker 1: around Davante Adams, he said, is because he was open
Speaker 1: eighty percent of the time. So the offense both through
Speaker 1: an eighty percent of the time. It wasn't like, hey,
Speaker 1: we have to have all these plays for Davante. It
Speaker 1: was more like Davante's open, it'd be stupid to go
Speaker 1: to Alan was art on the other side, So I
Speaker 1: think that they have a faith Eventually, some of those
Speaker 1: guys have been open, whether it's Romeo Dobbs, Christian Watson,
Speaker 1: obviously album was artists still there but working through injury,
Speaker 1: those guys will get up to speed over the course
Speaker 1: of the year, and I think I frankly, by January,
Speaker 1: I think the Super Bowl favorites. Wow, okay, good stuff
Speaker 1: on that. I'm thankful the Cardinals don't play them this year.
Speaker 1: Obviously the game last year was phenomenal, but the ending
Speaker 1: unfortunate Cardinals had a chance to win that game. We
Speaker 1: all remember what happened. You've got the Giants at two
Speaker 1: and oh and the Dolphins at two and which team
Speaker 1: is for real or is it both or neither? I'd rather, frankly,
Speaker 1: I would rather be the Dolphins and the Giants right now.
Speaker 1: On the other hand, for the twenty twenty two season.
Speaker 1: On the other hand, anything the Giants do is a
Speaker 1: pleasant surprise. And what I mean by that is I
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time reporting around the Buffalo Bills,
Speaker 1: where Joe Shane and Brian Daboll came from. They used
Speaker 1: the first two seasons from a roster standpoint as kind
Speaker 1: of a wash, and they took i think after the
Speaker 1: first season, and they took the biggest deadcap charge in
Speaker 1: the history of football in order to get some of
Speaker 1: those contracts off the books to start rebuilding. And so
Speaker 1: one of the reasons I thought that maybe I wasn't
Speaker 1: going to pick the Giants this year was because I thought, maybe,
Speaker 1: if they don't have expectations, why should I have expectations.
Speaker 1: The fact that they're having success now suggests that there
Speaker 1: might be as long as they hit on the quarterback
Speaker 1: eventually kind of a Buffalo like set up there where
Speaker 1: they start winning. There's a foundation and then they start
Speaker 1: adding the pieces and kind of doing the retool and
Speaker 1: the rebuild, whatever you want to call it. So I'd
Speaker 1: rather be maybe the Giants as franchise over the next
Speaker 1: ten years. Having said that, this Dolphins team is talented there.
Speaker 1: I think there makes playoffs this year. They're talented. Michael
Speaker 1: Daniel was an awesome coach. You can scheam them up.
Speaker 1: There's probably more i'd say, high end players in that
Speaker 1: roster than we give her credit for. I think because
Speaker 1: of the last few years with the two weird miss
Speaker 1: and Ryan Fitzpatrick and some of those other problems that
Speaker 1: there wasn't you know, Jalen Wile and Tyreek Hill are
Speaker 1: two of the best receivers in football. The line has
Speaker 1: at least improved where two look can stand up there.
Speaker 1: They're defensive players like Byron Jones Davier. I mean, you
Speaker 1: think about even a guy like Javon Holland, like those
Speaker 1: are top, top tier guys, and so I'm not surprised
Speaker 1: at all the mic the game was able to have
Speaker 1: the team looking like a ten win team. The joy
Speaker 1: of the season any team right now that's struggling that
Speaker 1: you see turning it around and being in the championship
Speaker 1: conversation at the end of the year, or do you
Speaker 1: think what we've seen through two weeks is is going
Speaker 1: to be what we see for the most part this season.
Speaker 1: I mean the Bengals, I don't know what you do
Speaker 1: with the Bengals right now, and Lyle Cowins looked like,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't want to do that. Herbally here
Speaker 1: he looks like one of the worst players in football,
Speaker 1: Like he's letting guys, let Michael Parsons just around him
Speaker 1: all the time. I know Michael Parson is one of
Speaker 1: the best players in football, but he couldn't do anything
Speaker 1: yesterday to the point that I don't know if you saw,
Speaker 1: but Joe looked at Zach Taylor and said, don't don't
Speaker 1: put me an empty anymore between basically like give me
Speaker 1: more blockers. And for a guy like Joe Burrow to
Speaker 1: say that is really rare. I've spent a lot of
Speaker 1: time down in Cincinnati and some time with Joe. He
Speaker 1: loves getting guys out into a route and he's ready
Speaker 1: to take an extra hit because of it. The idea
Speaker 1: that he would ask for more blockers. I'm don't quote
Speaker 1: me on this, but I doubt that's ever happened. Frankly,
Speaker 1: when you talk to him with the coaching and you
Speaker 1: talk to Joe Burrow how much he loves those empty sets,
Speaker 1: and so I don't know what you do there. But
Speaker 1: if that gets fixed, the defense is playing well enough,
Speaker 1: I think that they'll be kind of there in mid January.
Speaker 1: I just think that, you know, it's such a huge
Speaker 1: problem from a franchise standpoint, Dave, if you think you
Speaker 1: fix something like the Bengals offensive line and you didn't,
Speaker 1: and to invest those resources, and man, it's they can
Speaker 1: get ugly real fast there. So I see a tweeting
Speaker 1: often about college football, could probably ask you anything about
Speaker 1: college football. But again, most of people listening here are
Speaker 1: Cardinal fans, So I think everybody's kind of curious what's
Speaker 1: next for Arizona State. Do you have somebody in mind
Speaker 1: you think that Arizona State should look at because everything
Speaker 1: I've read, it's a combination of college coaches and NFL coaches.
Speaker 1: Head coaches, Like I don't see anybody tweeting or writing about,
Speaker 1: you know, a current coordinator at another college it's all.
Speaker 1: It's like big names too, and I'm not sure that
Speaker 1: Arizona State is going to attract that name. Okay, So
Speaker 1: let's say a step back here. So I saw a
Speaker 1: recruiting because I'm from Florida and that's kind of what
Speaker 1: we do. And it's interesting because if you look at
Speaker 1: the trends, the population trends, in the last ten years,
Speaker 1: Arizona and probably North Carolina you'd put in this bucket too,
Speaker 1: have gotten more blue chip recruits than a lot of
Speaker 1: other things. And what I mean by that is it
Speaker 1: just seems like the number of four and five stars
Speaker 1: in Arizona, North Carolina, a little bit of Virginia too,
Speaker 1: that number is increasing because there's a lot of people
Speaker 1: moving from Los Angeles, a lot of people are moving
Speaker 1: from San Francisco, and I'm sure you see it, you know,
Speaker 1: weekly when when you're in the valley there. And so
Speaker 1: I think that the high school football in Arizona has
Speaker 1: gotten appreciably better, and I think pretty much everybody agrees
Speaker 1: with that in college football. So I think what you
Speaker 1: do if you're Arizona State is you get a god
Speaker 1: tier recruiter and just start getting those guys home and
Speaker 1: I don't know who that could be. Necessarily. I mean,
Speaker 1: Miami solved the problem with Mario christ Ball because you know,
Speaker 1: every kid who was from Fort Lauderdale or Miami decided
Speaker 1: to go out and and go play for Nick Saban
Speaker 1: or Kirby Smart. That had to stop. I think, if
Speaker 1: you just get the guys who are from the Phoenix area,
Speaker 1: you're a PAC twelve contender every single year, especially once
Speaker 1: USC leaves. And so I don't know what that what
Speaker 1: that looks like. I would not go with a retread
Speaker 1: like a Brian Harrison type. I saw Dan Maulan linked
Speaker 1: there today. Dan Mullen didn't want to recruit of Florida
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, He's going to recruit at Arizona State. Um,
Speaker 1: I would just go out and find the best recruiter available.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I certainly wouldn't go for for an Urban
Speaker 1: Meyer type. Right trying stat I mean what about listen
Speaker 1: and what's not speculated on jobs that aren't open? But
Speaker 1: what about a Matt Rule. Um, you know, I don't
Speaker 1: know if he's going to get I don't know what
Speaker 1: the biggest job open would be. Maybe he'd be in
Speaker 1: the mix for for an Auburn Um. Maybe he'd be
Speaker 1: in the mix for Nebraska. But if I'm Arizona State,
Speaker 1: that's a pretty good option because he can recruit. He
Speaker 1: had a pretty good actor talent um, and he obviously
Speaker 1: knew how to develop them once they're on campus. So
Speaker 1: I think somebody like that would be a home run
Speaker 1: higher if they want to spend the money and want
Speaker 1: to commit the resources. Well, I started here in last
Speaker 1: year that Matt Rule wanted to go back to college football.
Speaker 1: Cardinals played Carolina next week. But I started hearing that
Speaker 1: last year, and maybe it was just because at the
Speaker 1: situation in Carolina he didn't believe in the quarterback and
Speaker 1: maybe things have changed now that they have Baker. And
Speaker 1: in terms of Urban, Meyer actually talked to Urban a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, and first of all, he has
Speaker 1: no interest in coaching. But the report or the rumor,
Speaker 1: whatever it was about Arizona State being interested, that was
Speaker 1: the first he had heard of it. So I don't
Speaker 1: see any shot of that. And to your point, Dan
Speaker 1: Mullen now is doing television. You know you're in the
Speaker 1: SEC for as long as he was in the SEC
Speaker 1: in Mississippi State, in Florida and now you're doing TV. Boy,
Speaker 1: it's a lot more comfortable doing that than it is
Speaker 1: trying to grind and recruit and try to win over
Speaker 1: a state. But what you said about USC is really interesting.
Speaker 1: The departure of SC and UCLA to the Big Ten
Speaker 1: may ultimately be the best thing that happens to Arizona
Speaker 1: State with the expanded playoff. Are you kidding me? I mean, like,
Speaker 1: if you I'm not listening, there are I don't think.
Speaker 1: I don't think at all. And you've seen these arguments.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've seen them as well. That okay, Well,
Speaker 1: once Michigan starts making the playoffs every year, they'll get
Speaker 1: better recruits and all of a sudden they'll close the
Speaker 1: gap with Georgia. I don't think that's true at all.
Speaker 1: I think that the Georgia's going to get all of
Speaker 1: the guys who they want this out and they don't
Speaker 1: go to Alabama and vice versa. Right, That's just sort
Speaker 1: of how it works as long as Kirby and Nick
Speaker 1: Saban were there. But if you're a team like Arizona State,
Speaker 1: you can close the gap with a lot of teams.
Speaker 1: If you start winning the Pact twelve and start getting
Speaker 1: into the playoffs every single year, and a guy from
Speaker 1: Phoenix decides to go there instead of going to UCLA
Speaker 1: or USC or Washington or Oregon or any of these places,
Speaker 1: or Texas. I mean, you think about it. I don't
Speaker 1: know how much you follow recruiting, but Kille Ringo, who
Speaker 1: had the pick six in the National Championship last year,
Speaker 1: is from Arizona and I think in a different era
Speaker 1: he would have gone to USC, Texas somewhere out west
Speaker 1: if he didn't stay home and go to Arizona State.
Speaker 1: And so if you just start kind of getting back
Speaker 1: to more regional recruiting because you can promise consistent playoff appearances,
Speaker 1: that changes the entire perspective. And for a team like
Speaker 1: Arizona State, it only takes one or two recruits to
Speaker 1: change the entire narrative. Kevin, I appreciate the time. Last
Speaker 1: thing you mentioned you got Scott van Pell coming up
Speaker 1: this week on your podcast. What else do you have
Speaker 1: going on this week and next that we can promote
Speaker 1: for you? Oh, I'm trying to think. So we have
Speaker 1: actually just booked a former NFL stars going to come
Speaker 1: on next week. Forday, it's not one hundred percent of firms,
Speaker 1: so I won't say it. Friday we do a pix
Speaker 1: kind of podcast son of a podcast called Slow Newsday,
Speaker 1: and it's a video podcast if you have Spotify, if
Speaker 1: you're on Apple, it's a regular old podcasts. But Mondays
Speaker 1: we do an NFL recap with Lindsay Jones, who we
Speaker 1: just hired, who was wonderful smooth from the Athletic. Wednesdays
Speaker 1: will be the SCP thing this week, and then we'll
Speaker 1: have with Cowherd on last week as well, and then
Speaker 1: Friday's we do a one college segment, one pro segment,
Speaker 1: just to gets you ready for the weekend. So that
Speaker 1: day it's called Slow Newsday with Kevin Clark and it's
Speaker 1: available every get in your podcast. Well this is great, man.
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed getting a chance to talk to you, Kevin,
Speaker 1: and hopefully we have to do this in person at
Speaker 1: some point down the road. Would love it, howe if
Speaker 1: you're in New York, I appreciate it man. Well. As
Speaker 1: you can see, Kevin has dialed in not just on
Speaker 1: the Cardinals, but on all things NFL and college football,
Speaker 1: some really good stuff on Arizona State. I wasn't planning,
Speaker 1: really spent a lot of time there, but I thought
Speaker 1: what he said about the departure of USC and USA
Speaker 1: LA to the Big Ten and how that could really
Speaker 1: transform Arizona State if they find the head coach I
Speaker 1: thought was really interesting. Along with this, thoughts on the Cardinals,
Speaker 1: the Rams, Packers, Niners, and some of the other teams
Speaker 1: in the NFL that could be in contention to win
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl. We are presented by bet MGM, the
Speaker 1: official sports betting partner of the Arizona Cardinals, and by
Speaker 1: Hila River Resorts and Casinos. You can follow us on
Speaker 1: Twitter at pashpod, and please go to your podcast platform
Speaker 1: and tell us what to think. If there's any guests
Speaker 1: that you'd love to see us get on in the future,
Speaker 1: we'd love to hear from you. Thanks again to Kevin
Speaker 1: Clark from The Ringer, and thanks again to you for
Speaker 1: listening to another edition of the Dave Pash Podcast.