Speaker 1: Hi Catherine, Hi Chelsea, Greetings from Whistler, Canada.
Speaker 2: You guys got dumped on?
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I cannot ski in deep powder. I got
Speaker 1: buried like three times the other day. The powder is
Speaker 1: so deep that I can't even navigate it. I don't
Speaker 1: know which way to go, and then you fall down
Speaker 1: and it takes forever to get your skis out because
Speaker 1: they're under like six four I was under like four
Speaker 1: feet of snow and I was hanging upside down. At
Speaker 1: one point, I skied through a tree, double ejected, went
Speaker 1: through the woods. Finally, after the third tree I hit,
Speaker 1: I was like, I think it's time to get out
Speaker 1: of the woods.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just.
Speaker 3: A hot mess up here. And now I have children
Speaker 3: at my house.
Speaker 1: My cousins are here, Molly and Carrie, and they arrived
Speaker 1: with their three year old and four year old girls,
Speaker 1: so that's cute. I don't have children at my house
Speaker 1: very often.
Speaker 2: You know that, little kids.
Speaker 1: And then I had my other children here, Katie, my
Speaker 1: little daughters, my twin buddhas Katie and Jesse. And I
Speaker 1: was trying to make Katie some food on Saturday night,
Speaker 1: so I made a bunch of hamburger meat and she's like,
Speaker 1: she calls me dad.
Speaker 3: She goes, Dad, that's disgusting.
Speaker 1: I'm not eating anything you cook, like you're not a
Speaker 1: good cook, and we all know that we can't eat.
Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, all right, I'm fine. I'm like
Speaker 1: it's good. I put seasoning, I put onions. I'm like
Speaker 1: it's good, it's good. And I took a bite. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is terrible. You know, I destroy everything I cook.
Speaker 1: So the next morning I gave it to Doug because I,
Speaker 1: you know, I figured dogs like hamburger meat. Doug has
Speaker 1: had an explosive diarrhea now for forty eight hours.
Speaker 3: Oh no, he exploded all over.
Speaker 1: My carpet, and Molly, my cousin, is trying to clean
Speaker 1: it up because she knows. I don't know how to clean.
Speaker 2: Up feces PSA.
Speaker 4: Dogs are not supposed to have onions, so maybe that
Speaker 4: is why.
Speaker 3: Oh cool, what about hamburger meat?
Speaker 2: Though hamburger meat should be fine?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like, what is it? Maybe too fatty
Speaker 1: for him, that's why he got the diarrhea.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's a hot shit show in this house, though, you should.
Speaker 1: Literally this morning, the dog walker friends coming going diarrhea.
Speaker 3: My friend stepped in the diarrhea.
Speaker 2: How many of errors?
Speaker 1: I added a new show in Prior Lake, Minnesota, and
Speaker 1: then I added a new show in Santa Rosa, California.
Speaker 1: Second shows for that, so you can go to Chelseahandler
Speaker 1: dot com. I'm kind of a Salt Lake city too,
Speaker 1: which is exciting in April and Denver, Colorado. So go
Speaker 1: to Chelsea Handler dot com for all my tickets and
Speaker 1: we're going to be adding more and more dates.
Speaker 2: Excellent, just always adding more dates. That's always happening. That's
Speaker 2: a great thing.
Speaker 1: This weekend I have Coloonna and Victoria both are sold out,
Speaker 1: but Victoria on Vancouver Island and then Colowna and then
Speaker 1: I'm going to go to the Oscar parties on Sunday.
Speaker 3: I think I can just get dressed up for the
Speaker 3: day and then you.
Speaker 2: Know, Nike more. That'll be fun. Chelsea. It's International Women's
Speaker 2: Day this week?
Speaker 1: Is it? Oh?
Speaker 3: My goodness?
Speaker 1: Happy International Women's Day. We love women, women, women, women, women, Chelsea.
Speaker 4: Since it's International Women's Day, I wanted to ask you,
Speaker 4: as women, what are some ways that you feel we
Speaker 4: can regain our power?
Speaker 1: I think it's very important for you to be honest
Speaker 1: with yourself and never to sublimate your feelings for the
Speaker 1: benefit of others.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 3: I think you have to.
Speaker 1: Really, there's such an overcorrection that needs to be made
Speaker 1: in order for us to balance out, because we have
Speaker 1: been fed this whole song and dance, our whole lives
Speaker 1: that men are just more valuable, and that's simply not true.
Speaker 3: We are valuable.
Speaker 1: And to understand your value, you have to be in
Speaker 1: a relationship with yourself, to understand who you are, what
Speaker 1: you're good at, what your strengths are, what your weaknesses are.
Speaker 1: And once you can figure those things out, like what
Speaker 1: you're good at and what you're not good at, then
Speaker 1: you can excel at the things you're good at and
Speaker 1: kind of minimize your exposure to the things that don't
Speaker 1: bring you as much joy and as much power. But
Speaker 1: I think the most important thing is to always stand
Speaker 1: up for yourself, to always, you know, be your best ally.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And one thing you talk about a lot is
Speaker 4: like asking for what you want and asking for what
Speaker 4: you need. And I was with someone this weekend who
Speaker 4: you know, when she didn't want to do something, she
Speaker 4: would say, oh, but you guys, go ahead.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to, but you guys go ahead.
Speaker 4: And I just was like, I want her to feel
Speaker 4: confident in to say like, no, you know, let's not
Speaker 4: do that.
Speaker 2: I'm not really into that. Let's go to this other
Speaker 2: thing over here. And I think the more we can.
Speaker 4: Work that muscle and gain that muscle, the more powerful
Speaker 4: will be.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, very important to always just kind of I like
Speaker 1: to think of myself as like my own little daughter.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to ever let somebody hurt a little kid,
Speaker 1: so I'm not going to let anybody hurt me either.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you'd want hurt a stand up for herself, so like,
Speaker 2: let's stand up for her.
Speaker 5: M M.
Speaker 1: I love that we have a very special guest for
Speaker 1: International Women's Day. Her ted talk has topped over twenty
Speaker 1: two million views, Her reformation campaign went viral this week,
Speaker 1: and her self care and anti harassment activism is widespread,
Speaker 1: including her most recent anti bullying efforts with stand upto
Speaker 1: yourself dot com. Please welcome producer, activist, public speaker, and
Speaker 1: contributing editor at Vanity Fair Monica Lewinsky. I can't believe
Speaker 1: you're in my studio, but I'm not there. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: so good to see you, Monica. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for being our special guest this very important International Women's Day,
Speaker 1: which we should be having more frequently than once a year.
Speaker 1: It seems like, Monica, where do we meet? We've met
Speaker 1: a couple times, right, Once this was with Alissa.
Speaker 5: Wright, who I love, and I think we have Maria
Speaker 5: Schreiber in common.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we probably have some people in common. Well, I
Speaker 1: was meaning to hang out with you at some point.
Speaker 1: We still have to do that anyway, but now we're
Speaker 1: hanging out here, so we'll start here. So I'm very
Speaker 1: excited to talk to you because obviously, well you've been
Speaker 1: a very public figure for a very long time, and
Speaker 1: now you have a huge, big perspective on all of
Speaker 1: the things that you've been through. So I'm sure the
Speaker 1: way that you look at things has probably changed a
Speaker 1: lot since you were a young girl.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 5: I've had a lot, a lot of therapy and like
Speaker 5: a lot of healing modalities.
Speaker 2: I do it all, so do you.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, My main therapist is a trauma psychiatrist. I
Speaker 5: have a somatic therapist I have. I call him my
Speaker 5: energy worker, but he's like, I don't know, it's more
Speaker 5: resonance kind of resonance work.
Speaker 2: And I have a friend apist, and.
Speaker 3: What is a friend to pist? I mean, obviously I
Speaker 3: can figure that out.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, you know, it's someone that I had started
Speaker 5: working with professionally, not as a therapist, but in other capacities.
Speaker 5: We became friends, and then a few years ago I
Speaker 5: was going through just challenging work stuff and she kept
Speaker 5: stepping up to the plate so much, and I was
Speaker 5: relying on her so much that I just felt like,
Speaker 5: because we had had a transactional relationship before and now
Speaker 5: there was this deeper connection, it just didn't feel like
Speaker 5: an even exchange to me. So I was like, I know,
Speaker 5: I'm going to just pay you a tiny bit of
Speaker 5: money each week and then you know, so it's great,
Speaker 5: because I just felt like there needed to be an
Speaker 5: even exchange. But I find what I find really valuable
Speaker 5: is that I don't have to always wait until my
Speaker 5: next therapy B session to process something if it's really important.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to catch our listeners up.
Speaker 1: For anyone who's not familiar with Monica or her story,
Speaker 1: this was a very very long time ago. Let's set
Speaker 1: the scene because this was before social media, so we
Speaker 1: didn't have Instagram.
Speaker 3: Or even Twitter.
Speaker 1: At that time, we had nothing, and you were caught
Speaker 1: up in a very, very, the most public scandal of
Speaker 1: all time probably or one of the most public scandals
Speaker 1: of all time, and you were only a twenty two
Speaker 1: year old girl. So your Ted talk, which has received
Speaker 1: over twenty two million views, was so moving because it
Speaker 1: is on the subject of cyber bullying and what you
Speaker 1: went through and the disparities between men and women and
Speaker 1: cyber bullying. So at that time, how were you reading
Speaker 1: this stuff about yourself that people were writing.
Speaker 2: It was horrific.
Speaker 5: I think in large part, I think it's challenging for
Speaker 5: anybody in the public eye to read or hear something
Speaker 5: negative about themselves, but chosen to be a public person.
Speaker 5: And I literally went to bed one night a private
Speaker 5: person and awaken the next morning and there was my
Speaker 5: name above the fold on the newspaper like So it
Speaker 5: was a very jarring transition and obviously not something people
Speaker 5: want recognition.
Speaker 2: That's not what you want to become.
Speaker 5: Known for, and so it was quite challenging, and I
Speaker 5: think I went through a period where I became almost
Speaker 5: obsessed with the negativity. But I also felt in many
Speaker 5: ways that I had to follow along with everything that
Speaker 5: was going on because it was giving me clues to
Speaker 5: what was happening legally, and even though I had lawyers,
Speaker 5: I think we've all gone through this before. When you
Speaker 5: feel you're in a helpless, feeling situation, any straws that
Speaker 5: you can grasp for agency can feel valuable. So it
Speaker 5: was that way, but it was I mean, it did
Speaker 5: a total fucking number on me. So I mean I
Speaker 5: still deal with, you know, with insecurities and issue from
Speaker 5: ways that I was talked about, both true and untrue.
Speaker 5: And didn't you mention in one interview that your parents
Speaker 5: didn't have really the Internet on their computer at home,
Speaker 5: so you had to like go to an internet cafe.
Speaker 2: So my mom, yeah, we didn't. So my parents are divorced.
Speaker 5: I was living with my mom in DC and my
Speaker 5: dad and stepmom are in Brentwood, so my at my
Speaker 5: mom's we did not. And then when I went out
Speaker 5: to stay with my dad and stepmom, they had the Internet.
Speaker 5: And that was I was actually just thinking about it
Speaker 5: when we were saying this a few seconds ago. Because
Speaker 5: I would get up super early, I'd go on the internet,
Speaker 5: and they eventually established a rule that I wasn't allowed
Speaker 5: to go on the computer until after breakfast because I
Speaker 5: would just dive in and then I was, you know,
Speaker 5: little miss cuckoo pants from what was.
Speaker 2: Being the moment you woke up. I'm sure, yeah, well
Speaker 2: it's just a I mean, it was I wouldn't wish
Speaker 2: the experience of my worst enemy.
Speaker 4: So, you know, I think influencers these days, and obviously
Speaker 4: it's it's somewhat different from what you went through, but
Speaker 4: there are bullies out there, there are nasty comments and
Speaker 4: that sort of thing, and most of us are picking
Speaker 4: up our phone first thing in the morning, We're going
Speaker 4: on social media and so like same sort of situation
Speaker 4: where they're filling their minds with that from the moment
Speaker 4: they wake up.
Speaker 5: Well, any I think too, what we don't think about
Speaker 5: enough with what we're seeing online is that we all
Speaker 5: become collateral damage to that, particularly women, when we observe
Speaker 5: what other people, even if it's other women are saying
Speaker 5: about other women, we all relate on some level, and
Speaker 5: so I think that's where it can it can become
Speaker 5: so toxic for the culture.
Speaker 1: When you say, I want to go back to what
Speaker 1: something you just said, When you said you became obsessed
Speaker 1: with the negativity.
Speaker 3: Can you expound on that a little bit.
Speaker 2: I think it was.
Speaker 5: I had I mean, like most young women, I had
Speaker 5: insecurities going in to nineteen ninety eight. I had insecurities
Speaker 5: as a young woman and trauma that led to my
Speaker 5: even being in that relationship. I don't know about either
Speaker 5: of you, but I think that there's when I was young,
Speaker 5: that feeling of almost the worst thing that could happen
Speaker 5: would be someone confirming my worst fears about myself. And
Speaker 5: when that's someone is the entire world, it's pretty fucked up.
Speaker 5: So it was just I think that it became sort
Speaker 5: of like a wound that you just can't leave alone.
Speaker 1: It's fascinating to me that psychology, because it's impossible when
Speaker 1: something is being said about you to just look away, right,
Speaker 1: especially with that magnitude or that cacophony of the whole
Speaker 1: world watching. So I can't even imagine on such a
Speaker 1: large scale because you don't have the tools as a
Speaker 1: twenty two year old girl. Your brain isn't even fully developed. Yes,
Speaker 1: you don't have the tools to weather that storm. So
Speaker 1: it's like a miracle that you're okay.
Speaker 2: Okay, is no I'm kidding.
Speaker 3: I'm okay, You're okay, okay, but you.
Speaker 2: Know, I've I've found it. I don't know.
Speaker 5: I don't know if either of you've experienced this, but
Speaker 5: I think one of the things that's been so magical
Speaker 5: for me about how things have changed in my life
Speaker 5: in the last decade is that I've come to learn
Speaker 5: and understand how when you have that balance of things
Speaker 5: starting to sort of gel more in your life. I
Speaker 5: think feeling like I've been seen for more as my
Speaker 5: true self, that it has allowed when there's been something negative,
Speaker 5: something that might have laid me low for an entire
Speaker 5: day that I kind of am miffed for five minutes,
Speaker 5: and that there's just a wider landscape that you and
Speaker 5: a wider context that you feel seen and judged in,
Speaker 5: so that's been better.
Speaker 4: Do you think that's something that kind of comes naturally
Speaker 4: a little bit with age or would you talk at
Speaker 4: it mostly to the work that you've done.
Speaker 5: I think it's a combination of both, you know, So
Speaker 5: there's there's the maturity, then there's that, you know, sort
Speaker 5: of the alchemy that happens between maturity, age, experience and
Speaker 5: how they all sort of work together. But I'm grateful
Speaker 5: for it either way, so.
Speaker 1: Right, because without the work, if you didn't have the work,
Speaker 1: you would be a completely different person right now, And
Speaker 1: you would be so easily triggered by that experience. You know,
Speaker 1: if not working through that experience, I would only just
Speaker 1: come up and tap you on the shoulder at the worst,
Speaker 1: most inopportune time. So you're kind of left with no
Speaker 1: choice but to do the work right because it's.
Speaker 5: The only way out, exactly. And I think that's for me.
Speaker 5: I had kind of jettisoned what I thought I was doing,
Speaker 5: was jettisoning my public life in two thousand and five,
Speaker 5: and I left the States and I moved to London
Speaker 5: and went to graduate school at the London School of Economics.
Speaker 5: And the intention there, I think, was that I would
Speaker 5: leave this old Monica Lewinsky behind and now I was
Speaker 5: going to be the new Monica Lewinsky with a new
Speaker 5: scaffolding and start my real life. And of course, you
Speaker 5: know that didn't happen.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously you could clock when we were being
Speaker 1: introduced to people that you have to get over that hurdle.
Speaker 1: I'm so curious as to what that is like. Every
Speaker 1: time someone meets you they're like, oh, that's the story,
Speaker 1: Like how does one handle that?
Speaker 3: Like did you go at it with humor?
Speaker 1: Did you try to disarm people or did you just
Speaker 1: let everybody figure it out as they went along?
Speaker 2: I think probably.
Speaker 5: I mean I like to think I'm funny, so I
Speaker 5: would I'd like to think it was like disarming with
Speaker 5: humor or just you know, I probably have a much
Speaker 5: higher EQ than I do IQ and just in that
Speaker 5: way of sensing people. But also trauma, you know, trauma
Speaker 5: will definitely shape your senses and your nervous system around
Speaker 5: how you perceive things, how you try to feel safe.
Speaker 5: Someone once said something so interesting to me that people
Speaker 5: with trauma can't feel safe until everyone else in the
Speaker 5: room is safe or feel safe to them comfortable.
Speaker 2: And I think that's definitely true for me.
Speaker 5: But I've had people, which was I took as a compliment,
Speaker 5: people saying that they get over the speed bump really quickly,
Speaker 5: which I think is good. But I mean, then you
Speaker 5: have those funny moments where you can just somehow tell
Speaker 5: the difference between Sometimes people don't recognize you, they don't
Speaker 5: know your history, all of those things, and then there'll
Speaker 5: be times where someone will pretend that they don't know.
Speaker 2: Have you ever had this happen?
Speaker 5: Like someone pretends that they don't know you or your history,
Speaker 5: and you're like, wait, I don't know. There's something about
Speaker 5: the way you're doing, like I know you're either trying
Speaker 5: to make me feel comfortable or you're trying to be
Speaker 5: cool or whatever that is.
Speaker 2: So what was your first job out of college? Exactly? Exactly?
Speaker 2: Have you ever worn a beret? I think you look
Speaker 2: really good.
Speaker 1: But and on a larger note, the saying or everything
Speaker 1: happens for a reason, there are a lot of people
Speaker 1: who believe that. You know, what do you think about
Speaker 1: that saying everything happens for a reason.
Speaker 5: I think it's bigger than all of that, because I
Speaker 5: believe in karma, and I believe that idea that things
Speaker 5: become cyclical in a much larger way over lifetimes. And
Speaker 5: so that part of me thinks that's an accurate statement.
Speaker 5: But then there's another part of me that is like, no,
Speaker 5: you just try and survive, and then this is the
Speaker 5: story we tell ourselves that, oh, it happened for a
Speaker 5: reason because it's easier.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 5: It's sort of like if you've had a friend who's
Speaker 5: not made great choices in relationships for a long time,
Speaker 5: and then they meet their person and then and they're like, well,
Speaker 5: I finally went for the nice guy, you know, and
Speaker 5: it's like okay, or that's just the story you tell yourself.
Speaker 5: You know that you stopped wanting the other things. And
Speaker 5: sometimes that's true and sometimes it's not.
Speaker 4: It does seem that you have sort of intentionally tried
Speaker 4: to arrive at the reason, arrive at the reason that
Speaker 4: this happened, and you recently have been doing you know,
Speaker 4: in the last several years, have been doing this anti
Speaker 4: bullying work. Can you talk a little bit about turning
Speaker 4: your pain into purpose? And it really seems like that's
Speaker 4: what you're doing.
Speaker 5: Sure, it really ended up being it was not intentional.
Speaker 5: I think I was trying to find purpose in my
Speaker 5: life and I couldn't. When I got out of graduate school,
Speaker 5: I couldn't get a job, and so then I found
Speaker 5: myself approaching my forties and not really having anything close
Speaker 5: to the life I had imagined. But it's the anti
Speaker 5: bulling work that I've been able to do really stemmed
Speaker 5: from the first thing I did a decade ago, which
Speaker 5: was writing a first person essay for Vanity fair, and
Speaker 5: I think that opportunity I was given to reclaim my
Speaker 5: narrative and reintroduce myself on my own terms was a
Speaker 5: really powerful moment, and it allowed people to start to
Speaker 5: see me in a different light, to a reevaluate the story,
Speaker 5: and that allowed me to eventually step into it. Was
Speaker 5: actually an anti bullying group in the UK called Anti
Speaker 5: Bullying Program that's part of the Diana Award, and they
Speaker 5: were the first ones who were sort of said, hey,
Speaker 5: we'll work with you and really embraced that I had
Speaker 5: a story to share in a way that could help
Speaker 5: other people feel less alone, and so that became really
Speaker 5: important to me and finding a way that you know,
Speaker 5: so if you're a sensitive person, you just I hate
Speaker 5: to say feel you know, I feel your pain, but
Speaker 5: feeling other people's pain in that sense of the work
Speaker 5: that I've been able to do has been incredibly rewarding
Speaker 5: for me. And I think that all of the anti
Speaker 5: bowling organizations that I'm connected to in different ways, we've
Speaker 5: all tried to make strides in this area. But there's
Speaker 5: still more work to be done, you know. So what's
Speaker 5: great is we're now having more conversations about bullying and
Speaker 5: public shaming and harassment, and therefore people feel less alone
Speaker 5: if it happens to them, it's less stigmatized, which is
Speaker 5: really important. I believe, you know, the worst things happen
Speaker 5: when someone's suffering in silence.
Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about what happens
Speaker 1: to these people who get bullied. Like I was bullied
Speaker 1: in high school or elementary school. I was a bullied
Speaker 1: and I was bullied, and I which came first.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly which came first?
Speaker 1: I think I got bullied and then I started to
Speaker 1: be like, oh, I have to be that way in
Speaker 1: order to defend myself, and then I took yeah, and
Speaker 1: then I was like, oh no, you know, it took
Speaker 1: me many many years to realize that's not you know,
Speaker 1: that's not cool either.
Speaker 3: So I was guilty of both.
Speaker 1: But I do remember in high school and or in
Speaker 1: elementary or middle school, all of those terrible periods of time,
Speaker 1: I fucking hated school more than anybody. I couldn't wait
Speaker 1: for it to be over. I just could not wait
Speaker 1: to be out of school because I thought it was torture.
Speaker 1: But I remember having this thought, and this is so childish,
Speaker 1: and I never was going to go through with it.
Speaker 1: But I remember thinking if I just ended my life,
Speaker 1: if I just took my own life, then I would
Speaker 1: teach everyone a lesson. And I know that that line
Speaker 1: of thinking goes through many people's brains.
Speaker 3: Did you feel that way, Oh?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, for sure.
Speaker 5: There were a lot of times that I opped myself
Speaker 5: to sleep, just praying I wouldn't wake up the next
Speaker 5: morning and thinking about I mean, really, it was my
Speaker 5: family that kind of kept me here. And I think
Speaker 5: anybody who's gone through one cycle of that. The only
Speaker 5: thing that's positive about having gone through one cycle is
Speaker 5: that the next time it happens, there's that little tiny
Speaker 5: voice in your head that knows, if I can just
Speaker 5: get through this moment, it will get better.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing with young people, you know, and
Speaker 1: online bullying, is that that thought isn't as fleeting. You know,
Speaker 1: everyone can have the thought, but the idea is to
Speaker 1: have to be able to tell them this isn't it,
Speaker 1: This isn't the end of the world. You will survive this,
Speaker 1: and you will get through this, and you will come
Speaker 1: out stronger. It's so hard to get through to a teenager.
Speaker 5: Right well, and I think it's so important why we
Speaker 5: tell these kinds of stories. Why we talk about the
Speaker 5: difficult times that we've been through, because especially if you
Speaker 5: have a public platform, because it does allow other people
Speaker 5: to hear, Oh, this person went through something shitty, they
Speaker 5: felt the way I'm feeling, and their life has shifted
Speaker 5: and it's turned around. And that really is sort of
Speaker 5: at the core of using other people suffering and giving
Speaker 5: a purpose to your past, is taking that pain and
Speaker 5: trying to jiu jitsu it.
Speaker 1: So, and do you communicate with a lot of young girls,
Speaker 1: like do you work with them?
Speaker 2: Not so much directly with a lot of young women.
Speaker 5: I work in with different organizations in different ways and
Speaker 5: in opportunities that I have. Sometimes when I'm speaking somewhere,
Speaker 5: someone will have brought their their daughter or their son
Speaker 5: or their non binary child, and I'll have sometimes have
Speaker 5: an opportunity to talk to people there, and I will
Speaker 5: talk to a lot of different people who have gone
Speaker 5: through big public shamings, but very privately.
Speaker 4: Because you touch in your TED talk on these themes
Speaker 4: of you know, how you survived and how everybody does
Speaker 4: survive this like public shaming and public bullying. And in
Speaker 4: another interview I listened to of you, you mentioned that
Speaker 4: a lot of times people will come up and say,
Speaker 4: I showed this to my fifteen or sixteen year old
Speaker 4: kid and like that was a gut punch.
Speaker 2: Oh it was for me too.
Speaker 5: It was, I mean on the slightly more humorous side.
Speaker 5: It was a nice shift for me for instead of
Speaker 5: people coming up and saying, no offense, but do you
Speaker 5: know who you look like, people would come up and
Speaker 5: sort of talk about my ted talk, which was very
Speaker 5: meaningful to me. But I've had teachers say that they've
Speaker 5: shown it to their students. I've had parents talk about
Speaker 5: that it was a very meaningful moment for me. Shortly
Speaker 5: after the talk, a friend of mine from graduate school
Speaker 5: had gone to visit her cousin who was going through
Speaker 5: a hard time, and she saw that he had handwritten
Speaker 5: out on a piece of paper that was on his
Speaker 5: desk a quote from my talk, and it was sort
Speaker 5: of a just did a deep heart moment for me
Speaker 5: and real gratitude there.
Speaker 2: So I think it is, yeah, yeah, that's really wonderful.
Speaker 1: I think in healing also that there are so many
Speaker 1: moments of healing right, Like it doesn't all come in
Speaker 1: one fell swoop. You don't all of a sudden feel
Speaker 1: like yourself again. But there are these milestones, right, Can
Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about what some of yours
Speaker 1: were like over the years she felt like, oh I've
Speaker 1: got I've got my feet back underneath me, or I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm coming into my own in a new way.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I think it's interesting because I've sort of gone through
Speaker 5: this a bit this past week after I launched this
Speaker 5: get out the vote campaign with Reformation and it was
Speaker 5: received really well, and so I worked all last week
Speaker 5: on Okay, I'm you know, gotten good at weathering a storm.
Speaker 5: Now I have to be able to enjoy this sunny day.
Speaker 5: And that's fucking hard. Like it's really I can.
Speaker 2: Swear, right, Yeah, yeah, okay, go ahead.
Speaker 5: So but yeah, I know, but I'm just checking, just
Speaker 5: double checking. So I think that there is I mean,
Speaker 5: for me, I would say there were some quieter moments
Speaker 5: of like getting my masters. So the morning of graduation,
Speaker 5: I was having a really hard time taking in this
Speaker 5: fact that I was getting a master's degree.
Speaker 2: And I came up with.
Speaker 5: This kakammy thing where I thought, Okay, if I ran
Speaker 5: into someone I hadn't seen in the last two years,
Speaker 5: and I said, oh, what are you doing today? And
Speaker 5: they said I'm going to get my master's in social
Speaker 5: psychology from London School of Economics. I would have thought
Speaker 5: to myself, Oh, I could never do that. Wow, that
Speaker 5: would never be me. I could never do that. And
Speaker 5: somehow that unlocks something that allowed me to step into
Speaker 5: some of the pride that I had for that. But
Speaker 5: definitely when the Vanity Fair piece dropped and people started
Speaker 5: to I mean not everybody. There was a lot of
Speaker 5: controversy around it, but there were loud enough voices that
Speaker 5: wanted to start to revisit the story. Doing the Forbes Talk,
Speaker 5: my Ted talk, you know, doing the work with anti
Speaker 5: bullying groups, and we did a campaign for Bullying Prevention
Speaker 5: Month in twenty eighteen and it was nominated for an
Speaker 5: Emmy in the Commercial category. So and that was exactly
Speaker 5: what I had wanted to do coming out of graduate
Speaker 5: school and I couldn't get a job in it. So
Speaker 5: it was very rewarding for me. But it's people saying
Speaker 5: I'm funny on Twitter, my brother having to finally acknowledge
Speaker 5: I'm funny, Like that.
Speaker 3: Was that was such a moment.
Speaker 5: After I was I was interviewed by John Oliver and
Speaker 5: my brother's like, okay, fine, you are funny, you know,
Speaker 5: because he was always saying, you're really not as funny
Speaker 5: as you think you are.
Speaker 2: I'm funny. I am funny, you know.
Speaker 5: It's so you think those were Those are some of
Speaker 5: the moments. I turned fifty last year, and so I
Speaker 5: did a lot of personal work leading up to it
Speaker 5: of really trying to catalog the past decade from before that,
Speaker 5: and I burst into tears one morning just really thinking
Speaker 5: about how much had changed and how much had happened,
Speaker 5: and just how grateful, just how fucking grateful I am.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm grateful. I'm grateful for you too. I'm
Speaker 1: grateful at your strength and perseverance. I'm really just I mean,
Speaker 1: if you could get through something like that, you can
Speaker 1: get through almost anything. Really, You've turned all of it
Speaker 1: into something positive. And that is just so admirable and
Speaker 1: so important for our listeners to hear, because if you're
Speaker 1: not a kid you have a kid, or if you're
Speaker 1: like me and smart or like Monica and refuse to procreate,
Speaker 1: then because I can't.
Speaker 3: Prograte because I don't want any of my daughter.
Speaker 1: I don't want a daughter going through any of the
Speaker 1: shit that happens in high school. I'm like, I will
Speaker 1: never have children because I will never put them through
Speaker 1: this that was just regular high school.
Speaker 5: Well, I have baby popsicles, so I, you know, I
Speaker 5: froze my eggs and I you know, but I think
Speaker 5: I'm at a point now where that just didn't happen
Speaker 5: for me, which is which has actually been not always easy.
Speaker 3: So you know, right, yeah, tell me how is your
Speaker 3: trust level?
Speaker 1: Like how is your trust with men and in relationships
Speaker 1: with women too?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 5: Well, I you know, I consider myself really lucky because
Speaker 5: I could see, you know, if I stepped outside of
Speaker 5: my own experience of this story, I could look at
Speaker 5: what happened to me and think, oh, yeah, this is
Speaker 5: going to be a person who is bitter and whose
Speaker 5: heart is closed for the rest of their lives.
Speaker 2: And that's not me.
Speaker 5: So I consider myself really lucky that way that I
Speaker 5: can trust. I.
Speaker 2: You know, I think it's still a.
Speaker 5: Challenge in romantic relationships somewhere of a challenge there. And
Speaker 5: my therapist will often say to me, She's like, well,
Speaker 5: the paradox of you is that the very skills and
Speaker 5: things that allowed me to survive this sort of well
Speaker 5: of hope or my perseverance and not giving up.
Speaker 2: She's like, it's not.
Speaker 5: So it's like a little maladaptive in romantic relationship.
Speaker 4: So well, I think not every man can be with
Speaker 4: a strong woman. Not every man is up to the challenge.
Speaker 2: Well done, Brad.
Speaker 5: And I also think too that there's I think there's
Speaker 5: something with this generation too, that we're sort of sandwiched
Speaker 5: between the Boomers and the millennials and that where things
Speaker 5: were changing, and so you had a lot more people,
Speaker 5: particularly I think Gen X men eventually coming out that
Speaker 5: was more acceptable. So you still had with the Boomers
Speaker 5: and the silent generation a lot of men who got
Speaker 5: married who were gay, a lot of men who were
Speaker 5: gay who married women either because it wasn't acceptable or
Speaker 5: they didn't even know they were gay, right, And then
Speaker 5: our generation it was you know, I think men started
Speaker 5: to come out later. But then the younger generations are
Speaker 5: the ones where it's been much more fluid, and so
Speaker 5: I think that there literally are less straight men available.
Speaker 2: So I mean, it is.
Speaker 3: God, thank God, we had an overdose for a while. Truly,
Speaker 3: we need some non straight man more of them.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So it's a you know, I'm at a point
Speaker 5: now where I'm like it'll happen or it won't happen.
Speaker 5: You know, I have a lot of great things in
Speaker 5: my life.
Speaker 2: What I like a partner? Sure, but that's okay.
Speaker 3: Well on that. No, we're going to take a break
Speaker 3: and we'll be right back. And we're back.
Speaker 2: Oh, we are back for our first question.
Speaker 4: We're going to have a caller, and Christina is going
Speaker 4: to join us on the line. But she says, Dear Chelsea,
Speaker 4: I'm a female in my thirties and a resident physician
Speaker 4: at a hospital in New York City. During my training,
Speaker 4: I've experienced a substantial amount of sexism within my department,
Speaker 4: including favoritism, rule bending, inappropriate and non constructive criticism, additional
Speaker 4: tasks or tasks withheld, and yes, sexual harassment. I have
Speaker 4: discussions with my other female co residents in which we
Speaker 4: all have our own experiences to share.
Speaker 2: I decided to become involved.
Speaker 4: In leadership and was asked to create a project relating
Speaker 4: to diversity, equality and inclusion. I thought this would be
Speaker 4: the perfect opportunity to conduct a survey with the goal
Speaker 4: of bringing to light the gender inequalities in my department.
Speaker 4: After finding a legitimate and validated survey with many citations
Speaker 4: and publications. I was met with complete pushback. After talking
Speaker 4: with higher ups, I received numerous phone calls from URHR
Speaker 4: rep expressing concern for potential consequences of the survey. I
Speaker 4: was advised to just drop it and go ahead and
Speaker 4: find a new project.
Speaker 2: The have it caused by a request for.
Speaker 4: Permission to conduct a survey along the lines of sexism
Speaker 4: tells me all I need to know. I listened to
Speaker 4: your podcast every week on my walk to and from
Speaker 4: work and all the great advice you provide. I know
Speaker 4: there's no quick fix to this, but I met a
Speaker 4: loss as to how I can move past this. How
Speaker 4: am I supposed to continue these next few years working
Speaker 4: for such a sack of shit place, knowing it covers
Speaker 4: all this up and there's nothing I can do about it.
Speaker 4: How am I supposed to encourage female medical students to
Speaker 4: come here for their residency. I cannot risk my training
Speaker 4: position by pushing the issue, and I need some of
Speaker 4: the higher ups in question to write me letters of
Speaker 4: recommendation upon my departure, any guidance on how to navigate
Speaker 4: the sexist political nightmare while we wait for these old
Speaker 4: barnacles to fall off.
Speaker 2: Christina Wow.
Speaker 3: Hi Christina.
Speaker 1: Hi, Hi, this is Monica, our special guest today, Monica Lewinsky.
Speaker 2: Nice to meet you, Christina.
Speaker 4: I know you mentioned something to me that I would
Speaker 4: love for you to share with Monica as well of
Speaker 4: why you were like, I actually have to call it.
Speaker 6: I have your biography from ninety eight on my nightstand.
Speaker 6: I had about forty pages left when Catherine told me
Speaker 6: that you were going to be on and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 6: I have to go. I have to do it.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: That was an authorized biography that Andrew Morton did and
Speaker 5: that I participated in, and he's a great person. I
Speaker 5: do not recommend doing an authorized biography right when you're
Speaker 5: coming out of the most traumatic year of your life
Speaker 5: that is also written in three months.
Speaker 2: But you know, help pay the legal bills, Yeah exactly,
Speaker 2: you know, there you go.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so your situation.
Speaker 1: You have tried to kind of blow the whistle on
Speaker 1: the situation there and you were met with a lot
Speaker 1: of pushback, right, correct, And do you see any other
Speaker 1: avenues for you to pursue that line of accountability?
Speaker 6: So the only other thing I could do is like, go,
Speaker 6: I guess find the correct authoritative people to kind of
Speaker 6: report things to. But unfortunately, I think it would have
Speaker 6: the same outcome or the same negative effect in terms
Speaker 6: of what my reputation would be or some of the
Speaker 6: ways I would be treated. And I still need, you know,
Speaker 6: a lot of things from these people forward with my career.
Speaker 6: Kind of a tough situation.
Speaker 1: It sounds like a tough situation, and I'm sorry that
Speaker 1: you're in it.
Speaker 3: Did you so did you already deal with HR on
Speaker 3: this when you asked to do the survey or.
Speaker 6: So they just kind of ghosted me. I never heard
Speaker 6: anything back. They said they would get to, you know,
Speaker 6: touch base with me at some point, but it's like
Speaker 6: they wouldn't even say no. You know, it's like I'm
Speaker 6: just asking for permission. So if the answers no, then
Speaker 6: just say no, and you know, give me whatever reason
Speaker 6: you can come up with. But it's like they just
Speaker 6: completely brushed it under the rug and just ignored me.
Speaker 3: What is the vibe at work? Is it a daily occurrence?
Speaker 1: Like, are you constantly just dealing with being marginalized there?
Speaker 6: Yeah, pretty much. And it's and it's not just the
Speaker 6: men either, it's it's the women too. You know, it's
Speaker 6: kind of like sometimes the women attendings are harder on
Speaker 6: the female residents, and you know, a lot of the
Speaker 6: HR people are women. It's tough, it's it's just kind
Speaker 6: of you know, no one wants to lose their job.
Speaker 3: I know, And I'm so against keeping your head down.
Speaker 1: I don't know how you feel about that, Monica, but
Speaker 1: like I'm very much about telling on people. I like
Speaker 1: to tell on people, especially when it's that this issue,
Speaker 1: because this issue, it's so weird that we're living in
Speaker 1: this time, you know, where we just had Me Too
Speaker 1: and the repercussion and of Me Too is basically the
Speaker 1: overturning of Roe v Wade. Yeah, like I look at
Speaker 1: that as all, you know, like we stand up for
Speaker 1: ourselves and then they're like shut the fuck up, don't
Speaker 1: talk too loudly, and don't stand up for yourself too strongly,
Speaker 1: like whack them all?
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, right? And how many years do you have
Speaker 3: left in the program?
Speaker 6: But two?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: And do you think that, like what are you thinking?
Speaker 1: Are you thinking that you can survive that and that
Speaker 1: you're going to just like get through it?
Speaker 6: I mean, I guess I don't really have another choice.
Speaker 3: Well, you do have a choice.
Speaker 6: You.
Speaker 3: You do have choices here.
Speaker 1: You can decide to make a big deal out of
Speaker 1: this and blow the whole thing up.
Speaker 3: You can. I don't know if that's what you want
Speaker 3: to do.
Speaker 1: It's that doesn't sound like that's necessarily the best option
Speaker 1: for you, But it is what I.
Speaker 6: Want to do, of course. But no, I don't think
Speaker 6: it's the best thing to do in my particular situation.
Speaker 6: But it's kind of like, how do we ever progress
Speaker 6: if everyone thinks that way? You know, if everyone is
Speaker 6: putting their head down and just complying because we're trying
Speaker 6: to get, you know, to to get and we've all
Speaker 6: worked very hard to get to this place. You know,
Speaker 6: it's not it's a lot to put on the line,
Speaker 6: but like, how do you force change if everyone does that?
Speaker 1: Well, I think there are other ways to kind of
Speaker 1: stand up for yourself without making it this huge thing
Speaker 1: where you're calling everyone out. I think there's a you know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like, you know, how there's microaggressions. There's
Speaker 1: also micro assertions, like ways to make yourself be more
Speaker 1: you know, standing up for yourself in a way where
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be kind of a blanket statement.
Speaker 1: It's actually individual to you like, I'm actually not willing
Speaker 1: to do this, I actually don't appreciate being spoken to
Speaker 1: like this, or you know, like little little things where
Speaker 1: if that's how you see yourself and you start actually
Speaker 1: calling people out on the little things without making it
Speaker 1: a huge deal, but being like, I actually don't really
Speaker 1: appreciate being spoken to like that or just being overlooked
Speaker 1: in that way.
Speaker 3: It kind of feels like it's because I'm a woman.
Speaker 5: I find the phrase that's not going to work for
Speaker 5: me sort of sometimes can feel really empowering and also
Speaker 5: puts the ball back in someone else's court of Okay,
Speaker 5: this isn't going to work, and therefore come up with
Speaker 5: another fucking solution, you know, or suggestion of something else.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you mentioned there are opportunities that are given to
Speaker 4: some of the male residents or taken away from the
Speaker 4: female residence. Maybe there is just some questioning that you
Speaker 4: can do on an individual basis, like, oh, is there
Speaker 4: a reason that this task or opportunity is going to
Speaker 4: this person instead of this other person, whether it's you
Speaker 4: or another woman resident.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean that's true. For instance, there's a certain
Speaker 6: rotation where if there is a female resident on with
Speaker 6: other male residents. This one attending will only ask the
Speaker 6: female to go like run errands, like to a console,
Speaker 6: other physicians, or give them cases, like not even their case.
Speaker 6: But if there's two females on then you know, he'll
Speaker 6: kind of go back and forth between the two females.
Speaker 6: But like, the males never get asked unless there is
Speaker 6: no female in service, of course, so things like that.
Speaker 6: But yeah, I think that I think you're right. I
Speaker 6: think it does need to be just said in the moment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in the moment.
Speaker 1: And also, like, you know, I learned this a few
Speaker 1: years ago about when I'm having a confrontation to be
Speaker 1: light and happy about it and be overly like smiley,
Speaker 1: because you have to actually act that way with people,
Speaker 1: especially men, because they're like, oh, all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you're you're contesting something that they're saying and you're a bitch.
Speaker 1: But if you're smiling and you're friendly and you're like,
Speaker 1: but wait, it's kind of weird that you're only asking
Speaker 1: the women to do this, right, Like it's almost like
Speaker 1: you have to play with their brains, you know, And
Speaker 1: it's almost I don't want to say in a flirtatious way,
Speaker 1: but sometimes I do do that where I'm like, wait,
Speaker 1: I don't understand, are you giving? Because this one guy
Speaker 1: I went and I was pulling up to this nail salon.
Speaker 1: I had forgotten something and this guy I was at
Speaker 1: a meter and I didn't put money in the meter
Speaker 1: because I was just running up to the nail salon
Speaker 1: on Montana Avenue and I came downstairs and the guy goes,
Speaker 1: excuse me, miss miss, missmiss, you didn't put any money
Speaker 1: in your meter, And I was like, who the fuck
Speaker 1: are you my fault?
Speaker 3: Like why are you a meter maid? Who cares what
Speaker 3: I'm doing?
Speaker 1: But I was like, okay, this is a man telling
Speaker 1: a woman what to do, And even though it's not
Speaker 1: the biggest thing, it is a very micro aggression. If
Speaker 1: you get enough of those, it becomes a macro aggression
Speaker 1: and it's fucking annoying. You know what man would say
Speaker 1: that to another man, You forgot to put money in
Speaker 1: your meter? Mister Like, no, that's it's definitely a male
Speaker 1: female like dynamic.
Speaker 3: So I said to him, I go, I'm sorry, but
Speaker 3: I just I'm so confused.
Speaker 1: Why do you care what I'm doing with my meter?
Speaker 1: And then I like slapped him on the shoulder, like
Speaker 1: in a playful way. I'm like, I'm just really curious.
Speaker 1: He goes, well, I'm just looking out for you, and
Speaker 1: I said, but are you? Are you looking out for me?
Speaker 1: Like do you think that I don't know about parking
Speaker 1: meters like that? I don't know what goes on? You know,
Speaker 1: this isn't my So it's like, but just that tonality,
Speaker 1: like he clearly saw what he did in our small exchange.
Speaker 1: I just wrote about this and he was like, oh god,
Speaker 1: I go it's just kind of unnecessary. Do you understand
Speaker 1: like women were just so sick of being told especially
Speaker 1: by men. I'm sure you meant well, but it doesn't
Speaker 1: I don't need you. You're not my babysitter. I'm a
Speaker 1: grown woman. I'm in my like I'm almost fifty, you know,
Speaker 1: like stop so And it was a nice conversation. I
Speaker 1: ended up giving a kiss on the cheek as I
Speaker 1: left him for being such a good listener. But do
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, It's like the small kind
Speaker 1: of calibration to just kind of change the narrative so it's.
Speaker 3: Not like, oh, you're whining and bitching and moaning, because
Speaker 3: that they can use against you.
Speaker 1: So if you go in there with like playfulness and
Speaker 1: kind of you know, not flirty, you don't need to
Speaker 1: flirt with anyone that's like, you know, that's not cool
Speaker 1: for us to even have to do, but in a
Speaker 1: more playful manner, like, oh, interesting, you should take a
Speaker 1: look at that, And so it doesn't feel like such
Speaker 1: a threat to them. I think maybe it's easier for
Speaker 1: people to see it that way.
Speaker 6: Yeah, they're definitely more men, especially are more receptive when
Speaker 6: you're a little.
Speaker 1: Smiley and yeah, and who cares, like we're just manipulating
Speaker 1: them anyway into seeing their own behaviors.
Speaker 3: So I'm all for that.
Speaker 1: I feel like we are societally built to think this
Speaker 1: is a zero some game and only one woman could succeed,
Speaker 1: and we're in competition with each other because of what
Speaker 1: men the way that you know, we've all been going
Speaker 1: through the world for millions of years. It is a
Speaker 1: man's world, and women are like, oh fuck, there's not
Speaker 1: going to be three of us at the top. There's
Speaker 1: only going to maybe be one of us, so everyone
Speaker 1: else get out of the way. But I think you
Speaker 1: can do the same thing, like actually, it's not even
Speaker 1: like confronting them. It's actually pointing out, go oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 1: We're actually working against each other, like because of the guys, Like,
Speaker 1: isn't that funny?
Speaker 3: Don't you think it's funny?
Speaker 1: You know, like in a conversational way, just like pointing
Speaker 1: out things that you notice or in the moment that
Speaker 1: they're happening.
Speaker 5: Or after the fact, with a version of you know,
Speaker 5: I'm sure it was unintentional, but it seems to me
Speaker 5: that I've been asked to do this where some of
Speaker 5: the other male residents haven't. And is there something personal
Speaker 5: to that I don't you know, or that you doubt
Speaker 5: it's personal.
Speaker 4: And you can also sort of you know, you know
Speaker 4: these things are happening, so you can maybe bypass the
Speaker 4: questioning about it and go straight to the solution. And
Speaker 4: I think, especially with the women applying to their better
Speaker 4: nature and their mentorship, maybe a good solution saying you
Speaker 4: know what, I really am feeling like, I want to challenge.
Speaker 2: Myself over these next few months, you.
Speaker 4: Know, I want to take on additional tasks if there's
Speaker 4: any any time, you know, maybe you have specific examples,
Speaker 4: but if there's anything that I can do to do
Speaker 4: more challenging work. I'm really interested in doing that because
Speaker 4: I want to be the best doctor that I can be,
Speaker 4: and like really applying to that sense of mentorship could
Speaker 4: be a way through that as well.
Speaker 6: Yeah, definitely, I think that's I think that's great advice.
Speaker 6: I think the sort of it's difficult for women in medicine,
Speaker 6: and especially if you're you know, we have a lot
Speaker 6: of international attendings too, so I think they had to
Speaker 6: work really hard and probably had to experience that stuff themselves.
Speaker 5: My best friend from college is a is a pediatrician,
Speaker 5: so I know she's I hear numerous stories about both
Speaker 5: ways she's respect and ways she needs to assert herself
Speaker 5: at times, and so it is a balance. I think
Speaker 5: it is finding that balance, and I'm sure you've done this,
Speaker 5: but it's also good to just be documenting what's happening,
Speaker 5: you know. So yeah, it doesn't have to be a
Speaker 5: whole report, but.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with that too.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and even if you know, I don't know if
Speaker 4: this is the sort of thing that you would talk
Speaker 4: to somebody in the media about on an anonymous basis,
Speaker 4: but especially if you are documenting it, you have specific
Speaker 4: examples and dates and times and people that you can
Speaker 4: that you can reference.
Speaker 2: And then again like you know these things are happening.
Speaker 4: Maybe it's skipping something like the survey and going straight
Speaker 4: to suggesting like hey, you you know you wanted me
Speaker 4: to do this leadership and DEI.
Speaker 2: Maybe we go ahead and have a training. Maybe we
Speaker 2: go ahead and take some steps.
Speaker 4: And you know, do some sort of a rotation where
Speaker 4: it's like doctors are all about systems, right, you have
Speaker 4: your checklist, you have your system. So maybe it's like, hey,
Speaker 4: instead of just like picking willy nilly, here's who gets
Speaker 4: the task or here's who gets the opportunity, maybe we
Speaker 4: have a rotational thing so everybody is getting you know,
Speaker 4: the same level of opportunities. I don't know if that's
Speaker 4: something that can happen because I know it's very hierarchical.
Speaker 2: But maybe just bypassing going straight to the solution.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 6: One of the things we talked about for like a
Speaker 6: project idea was to do like some sort of PowerPoint
Speaker 6: like presentation on you know, workplace microaggressions. But the thing
Speaker 6: is is it's already a training. You know, it's already
Speaker 6: a module training, right that's required, and so it's like
Speaker 6: no one's paying attention to that or the people.
Speaker 5: I think with trying to change social behavior, we found
Speaker 5: with some of the PSAs that we did that getting
Speaker 5: people to feel an emotion always helps shift thinking and
Speaker 5: behavior a lot faster than just hearing information. And maybe
Speaker 5: there's I don't know what that creative solution is, but
Speaker 5: maybe there's a way of if you're doing that, maybe
Speaker 5: it's writing scripts and having the men be the women
Speaker 5: in something funny and you know, some version of that,
Speaker 5: because that's what people remember is how they felt.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so true.
Speaker 1: That's true, especially through humor, even though it's not a
Speaker 1: humorous situation. It kind of takes the weight off of it.
Speaker 1: It takes the weight off of feeling like you're learning.
Speaker 6: Yeah, like a skit or something like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, medical snl. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like we have to outsmart men now just
Speaker 1: to like it's so exhausting, you know, we're not allowed
Speaker 1: to be smart, and then we have to become smarter
Speaker 1: than them to like make change or make something different.
Speaker 6: And it makes you pay more attention to the you know,
Speaker 6: to things that probably are nothing and you're like, oh,
Speaker 6: that's something. It's like when I go for a hike
Speaker 6: and you know, you're trying to pass somebody and it's
Speaker 6: a mail and then he's like, he's like go ahead,
Speaker 6: and I'm like, don't tell me what to do.
Speaker 5: You know, but it's like, isn't it funny? I find
Speaker 5: in the car so much. I don't understand why people
Speaker 5: have such an issue of letting someone pass, Like I
Speaker 5: want to go faster than you do.
Speaker 2: Why do you fucking care? Like it's such a weird thing.
Speaker 1: It is so it just but also what about people
Speaker 1: who scream at people while they're driving?
Speaker 3: O wait, road rage?
Speaker 2: It's so harossing, I do.
Speaker 1: I had a boyfriend once, Ted Harbert, who pulled over
Speaker 1: someone else. He pulled over another car. He's not a
Speaker 1: police officer, it wasn't then, and he literally made this
Speaker 1: arms gesticulation to this crazy driver. We were in Venice, California,
Speaker 1: and he went like this and pulled over and the
Speaker 1: woman pulled over.
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh my god, what are you doing?
Speaker 1: And he's like, I can't deal with this, and he
Speaker 1: went out and screamed it her and goes, you have
Speaker 1: no friends, That's what he said too.
Speaker 3: And I was like, how I'm supposed to be fucking you?
Speaker 3: Like are you kidding me? You have no friends? And
Speaker 3: like after this and all of it was mind blowing.
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, pulls over for a random man going
Speaker 1: like this, talk.
Speaker 3: About man's blaming.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Anyway, I digress. That wasn't a very necessary story, but
Speaker 1: when I had to share. But yes, I think it's
Speaker 1: great that you're asking these questions, and I think it's
Speaker 1: great that you're open to like solutions, like a non
Speaker 1: traditional solution, like you have to get creative, and that's
Speaker 1: only going to serve you in the long run anyway,
Speaker 1: to deal with more situations like this, because they're gonna,
Speaker 1: unfortunately be there, you know what I mean. You're going
Speaker 1: into the medical field. This isn't going to be the
Speaker 1: first time you're dealing with this. So I think if
Speaker 1: you just try like a couple of different approaches and
Speaker 1: then when you find one that works, then that's going
Speaker 1: to be like something that you're going to be able
Speaker 1: to use throughout the rest of your career to put
Speaker 1: people in their place.
Speaker 6: Yeah. No, I think everything you guys said is really
Speaker 6: good advice. I think it's you know, you have to
Speaker 6: kind of girl the courage to say things in the moment,
Speaker 6: and not everything is in the moment. Some things are like,
Speaker 6: you know, you talk to my like I'll talk to
Speaker 6: my male co residents and then they'll tell me, oh,
Speaker 6: that's weird, like they didn't have me do that, and
Speaker 6: you're like, really, you know, it's kind of like you're
Speaker 6: finding out after the back things that do happen. I
Speaker 6: think I think you're right. I think I need to
Speaker 6: just address that, just you know, finding the courage.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the tone and the right tone, because the
Speaker 1: right tone is everything you could say. You could say
Speaker 1: fuck you eighteen different ways, and one of them can
Speaker 1: be friendly, you know, like you can find different ways
Speaker 1: to say almost anything where it becomes more of a
Speaker 1: conversation and more.
Speaker 3: Of a thought, like oh, you say to your doctor like,
Speaker 3: oh my god, that's so funny.
Speaker 1: I was talking to the male interns like they've never
Speaker 1: done any of this stuff. I wonder why that is.
Speaker 2: They don't know how the coffee maker works. How funny?
Speaker 1: Yeah, is that part of the rule, you know, like
Speaker 1: almost kind of in a playful way.
Speaker 3: And see where that gets you.
Speaker 5: As Chelsea said earlier, I'm sorry you're going through this.
Speaker 5: You shouldn't have to do all this extra fucking work.
Speaker 6: So I agree, But it's everywhere. I mean, that's that's
Speaker 6: the unfortunate part. You know, we're still talking about this. Yeah,
Speaker 6: it happens everywhere, medicine not medicine.
Speaker 1: So yeah, well, keep us posted, let us know how
Speaker 1: everything is going with you.
Speaker 5: I will hope you enjoyed the last forty pages of
Speaker 5: the book.
Speaker 6: Bye bye, well.
Speaker 4: Our next caller, Ali says, Dear Chelsea, my dad was
Speaker 4: diagnosed with ALS when I was two and a half
Speaker 4: and died a week after my fourth birthday. I'm turning
Speaker 4: thirty on March fourteenth, and every year my birthday and
Speaker 4: the week's leading up to it are awful.
Speaker 2: Try as I may, it's.
Speaker 4: Often an anxiety ridden day that I white knuckle through
Speaker 4: and often don't enjoy. I get stressed about it months
Speaker 4: in advance. I've tried everything. My grief tends to come
Speaker 4: and deeer the month of March.
Speaker 2: Every year.
Speaker 4: It's like my body is remembering everything and grieving, and
Speaker 4: every year I'm surprised I can't get out from under it. Honestly,
Speaker 4: my best birthdays aren't even up there with neutral days
Speaker 4: in my life. I'm an extrovert with incredible people in
Speaker 4: my life who want to celebrate me and who know
Speaker 4: this and try to support me each year, and it's
Speaker 4: still a day in a month. I'd rather just fast
Speaker 4: forward right through. Can you help me enjoy my birthday?
Speaker 2: Ali?
Speaker 3: Yes, Yes we can. Ali. Hi, Hi, Hi speak, How
Speaker 3: cute you are? This is Monica Lewinski, our special guest today.
Speaker 2: Hi, nice to meet you.
Speaker 8: Hi'm lotka, nice to meet you. Nice to see you.
Speaker 3: Catherine, you need to flip it and reverse it. Sister.
Speaker 1: You are going to start now in the month of
Speaker 1: March and just do Every morning you are going to
Speaker 1: get up and do all you're going to write down.
Speaker 1: We're going to get you a list of affirmations where
Speaker 1: you're going to say, this is going to be the
Speaker 1: month that I celebrate my father's life and that he
Speaker 1: celebrates my birthday with me. And you are going to
Speaker 1: go through that month enjoy because you had a father.
Speaker 1: It wasn't his fault he died. He doesn't want to
Speaker 1: see you mourning for him a month every year. He
Speaker 1: wants you to enjoy your birthday and you're going to
Speaker 1: enjoy it with his spirit and mind. You have to
Speaker 1: take hold of this and take hold of him and
Speaker 1: be like, we're doing this together. This is the year
Speaker 1: that I am going to enjoy my birthday, and I'm
Speaker 1: going to enjoy this month, and I'm just going to
Speaker 1: be appreciative for all the love that I have in
Speaker 1: my heart for you, because that's really what it's all about.
Speaker 1: You know, there's no point in grieving. Obviously it's a
Speaker 1: natural feeling. You can't control grieving, But there's no point
Speaker 1: in suffering because now you're suffering more than grieving, do
Speaker 1: you understand.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's the difference.
Speaker 7: So it's like it'll hit me in October and I'm like,
Speaker 7: this is grief, and then every March I'm confied and
Speaker 7: it feels more like suffering and not like grief.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, Also, what Chelsea's saying in other words, is
Speaker 5: finding a new story for it. You know. So I
Speaker 5: went through something similar, different underpinnings. But so January sixteenth
Speaker 5: for me, every year was January sixteenth was the day
Speaker 5: I was stung by the FBI and I found out
Speaker 5: about the investigation happening and was told if I didn't
Speaker 5: wear a wire, I was going to jail for twenty
Speaker 5: seven years, blah blah blah, and the sort of next
Speaker 5: year or two, I dreaded that day, I dreaded.
Speaker 2: One oh one pm.
Speaker 5: That's this is when it happened last year, and then
Speaker 5: I think it was maybe by the third year, I
Speaker 5: decided that I was going to celebrate it as Survivor's Day,
Speaker 5: and so my family and I do that every year,
Speaker 5: and January sixteenth is Survivor's Day. I, by myself a present.
Speaker 5: I try to celebrate as much as I can. And
Speaker 5: changing that narrative around that event made a difference. And
Speaker 5: so I wonder if there's you know, is there a
Speaker 5: different story to find.
Speaker 8: No, it makes sense. Yeah, it's this bodied remembering.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, and you just chase. I mean, we have
Speaker 3: the power to do that.
Speaker 1: It's just that we feel kind of wrapped up in
Speaker 1: our own feelings and we don't know how to get
Speaker 1: out of them. Sometime, but like even as simple as
Speaker 1: finding out some of your dad's favorite books, right, or
Speaker 1: some of your dad's favorite things, and spending that time
Speaker 1: when the date is coming along or you know, your
Speaker 1: birthday's coming along, or whichever the day you know, reading
Speaker 1: what he loved or experiencing some of the things that
Speaker 1: he loved. Whatever his hobbies were like as a way
Speaker 1: of connecting him to your life now. And I guarantee
Speaker 1: you the more you welcome people who are gone, and
Speaker 1: the more you wring them towards.
Speaker 3: You, like I do it in meditation all the time.
Speaker 1: I always just imagine my mom who's passed away, and
Speaker 1: my brother as these kind of like mythical little nymphs
Speaker 1: like in Greek mythology, like dancing through the sky. I
Speaker 1: always just summon them when I'm meditating because that's like
Speaker 1: my light that's protective, and your father is protecting you.
Speaker 1: Like that's what happens. You know, people who are in
Speaker 1: your life, they never just go away. Their energy is
Speaker 1: with you forever, and it's worth celebrating and it's worth honoring.
Speaker 1: It's not just about the time you didn't have with him.
Speaker 1: It's about the person that he was and that he
Speaker 1: created you. And I think there's a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: that you can do and set yourself up for turn
Speaker 1: it into a celebration. Yeah.
Speaker 5: There Also what comes up for me is I wonder
Speaker 5: too if there was anything that happened when you were
Speaker 5: so little that you somehow coupled you know, kids, as kids,
Speaker 5: we make our own stories.
Speaker 8: Definitely.
Speaker 5: Yeah, was there some narrative or something you you overheard
Speaker 5: that you maybe misinterpreted as a kid that made you
Speaker 5: loop that connection of sort of this negativity and that.
Speaker 5: And I'm clearly not saying you were responsible for your
Speaker 5: dad's death. I think kids can kids can take that
Speaker 5: on and sort of that you know, that version, and
Speaker 5: so there could be you know, your younger self could
Speaker 5: be in there sort of still holding on to that narrative.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think it's a feeling of a lack of
Speaker 7: control that I that's a trigger for me in my life.
Speaker 7: I've in general, but I think, yeah, he did hospice
Speaker 7: in the home, so there were years of me watching
Speaker 7: that that I don't remember, but I was there, right,
Speaker 7: And so every March it's like my body is like
Speaker 7: something happened twenty five.
Speaker 8: Years ago that scared the shit out of us, right,
Speaker 8: and like my body remembers first. And so I.
Speaker 7: Really I think because of that, I avoided this month
Speaker 7: maybe more than I would in a different month, because
Speaker 7: I'm afraid to kind of like turn into the curve.
Speaker 7: And I like what you're both saying about claiming it,
Speaker 7: not trying to.
Speaker 8: Put it under the rug, because I'm not like that.
Speaker 8: My family is not like that.
Speaker 7: There's no reason for me to say, hey, I really
Speaker 7: miss him today. It's no reason I can't say that
Speaker 7: or do a toast to him at my birthday dinner.
Speaker 5: Do you live either in California or Florida where there's
Speaker 5: like a design I'm in La Okay, you know, going
Speaker 5: to my my energy guy, he talks about like literally
Speaker 5: disrupting the pattern in your body and how it could
Speaker 5: be so great to like Disneyland is a rate to
Speaker 5: place to do that, going on a roller coaster rides,
Speaker 5: going on the rights and maybe maybe doing doing that
Speaker 5: on your birthday. It's literally shaking up your pattern.
Speaker 7: Yeah, when I travel, My birthdays are better every time
Speaker 7: I travel. Which is interesting that you say that I
Speaker 7: have people coming here which will still be different and good.
Speaker 1: And know something, you know, whatever you focus on intensifies, right,
Speaker 1: So if you're focusing on the loss, that is intense feeling.
Speaker 1: If you focus on the love and the experience that
Speaker 1: you had, that will intensify. So it really is a
Speaker 1: choice that you make and it becomes a practice, but
Speaker 1: it works.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: It's like, have you had any somatic healing or somatic therapy.
Speaker 7: I talked to Catherine about that. I do therapy, and
Speaker 7: I've always done like king.
Speaker 8: And body work. I don't know that I've ever done
Speaker 8: like us somatic therapist.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you might want to look into that because that
Speaker 3: is healing your body.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 4: The La Pain and Psychology Center is where I have gone.
Speaker 4: My therapist is there and that's been super super helpful
Speaker 4: for me in getting certain stuff out of my body.
Speaker 4: And just how you say, like it's like your body
Speaker 4: triggers your emotions with this, like it starts in your body.
Speaker 2: That might be something to look into. Yeah, and I know, Monica,
Speaker 2: you do some semitic I have a sematic. Yeah, every
Speaker 2: other week I do. I have a somatic session.
Speaker 7: So yeah, because your body remembers for sure, I'm like
Speaker 7: always every year, I'm like the last to know why.
Speaker 8: I'm just I'm like, oh, yeah, I do this every year.
Speaker 5: Well can you just you could you like when you
Speaker 5: start to really pay attention to it too, I mean
Speaker 5: they're just the subtle.
Speaker 6: I know.
Speaker 5: Early on working with my somatic therapists, I had this
Speaker 5: realization that I feel I am on my legs, I'm
Speaker 5: not in my legs, and so like even just a
Speaker 5: little something like that just really reorients how you how
Speaker 5: you see and experience your life. You know.
Speaker 8: Yeah, so interesting. Thank you so much. I'm going to
Speaker 8: look into.
Speaker 2: That happy early birthday.
Speaker 8: Thank you. Ten days until I'm thirty.
Speaker 1: Oh this is perfect. This is perfect timing for you
Speaker 1: to turn the beat around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, new decade.
Speaker 1: And also have you ever read have you ever read
Speaker 1: any of like like Signs from the Universe by Laurlyn Jackson?
Speaker 7: I haven't, but I heard her on your podcast and
Speaker 7: learned about her work.
Speaker 8: I have her book. I haven't read it yet, but
Speaker 8: I do do that.
Speaker 7: I have a sign that I have with him, and
Speaker 7: he does it's the band of who it's and he does.
Speaker 8: Come to me a lot. I ask for him.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I talked to him a lot. I feel connected
Speaker 7: to him. The older I get, which is great. And
Speaker 7: so this year I think I'm like, let's get real dat.
Speaker 1: Okay, yep, yep, yeah, yeah, Well good for you. You're
Speaker 1: going to be fine, It's going to be better.
Speaker 8: Thank you, Thank you, al. I really appreciate this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, take care, thank you.
Speaker 8: Bye.
Speaker 3: What a perfect little face. She I was looking at
Speaker 3: her face. I was like, oh, you're like a little
Speaker 3: baby doll.
Speaker 4: But I think that idea of turning toward the pain
Speaker 4: you feeling, or turning into your body, that was something
Speaker 4: that was a real key for me. Was because I
Speaker 4: was having a lot of stress that was manifesting in
Speaker 4: physical pain. And there were times when I would have
Speaker 4: pain in one part of my body and I actually
Speaker 4: turned inward and focused on it, it either changed or
Speaker 4: dissipated or lessened. But also I would notice things like, oh,
Speaker 4: I think I'm only having this pain in this this
Speaker 4: is the only sensation I can focus on. And when
Speaker 4: I actually did a body scan, I'm like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 4: my hands are tingling, or you know these other body
Speaker 4: sensations that I could I wasn't even aware of because
Speaker 4: I was so focused on trying to not focus on
Speaker 4: the pain.
Speaker 2: And when you actually.
Speaker 4: Look inward and focus on it, whether it's emotional, physical pain,
Speaker 4: it can change your relationship to it. Obviously, it doesn't
Speaker 4: cure every pain, but like I can change your relationship
Speaker 4: to it so well. Our last question comes from Adria.
Speaker 4: Dear Chelsea, I'm turning fifty in August, and I'm blissfully
Speaker 4: single and child free as such, I've not had a wedding,
Speaker 4: a bridal shower, a bachelorette party, a baby shower, or
Speaker 4: received gifts or money for any major life events beyond
Speaker 4: high school graduation. I didn't even send out graduation notices
Speaker 4: when I earned my undergrad or graduate degrees.
Speaker 2: My chosen careers have never been.
Speaker 4: Especially lucrative actor teacher, bartender, and I'm currently self employed
Speaker 4: as a pet sitter. I also volunteer five or six
Speaker 4: days a week at my county's woefully underfunded animal shelter.
Speaker 4: My goal is to open a humane society operating on
Speaker 4: government contracts, essentially doing away with the animal shelter, as
Speaker 4: was done with great success in a neighboring county. I
Speaker 4: want to ask my friends and family members for money
Speaker 4: to start this humane society, with the purpose of the
Speaker 4: announcement being my fiftieth birthday present. My conundrum about doing
Speaker 4: this is twofold. First, will starting something like a GoFundMe
Speaker 4: for this be perceived as ghosh or worse lazy? In
Speaker 4: other words, why am I not well connected or financially
Speaker 4: solvent enough by this age to accomplish this without their help? Second,
Speaker 4: I think I deserve to be acknowledged. Nay is celebrated
Speaker 4: for not adding to the world's overpopulation or being another
Speaker 4: divorced statistic, which I surely would have been if any
Speaker 4: of my prayer relationships had led to marriage. So how
Speaker 4: do I bring this up without offending those who have
Speaker 4: chosen to get married and have kids? Thanks so much,
Speaker 4: love the show, Adria.
Speaker 3: I think starting a gofund me is that what she's asking?
Speaker 1: Like, Yeah, for sure, absolutely, that's perfect go fundme material.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. I don't have a problem with that at all,
Speaker 1: and I don't wouldn't worry about I mean, the people
Speaker 1: you're gonna offend, You're going to invite a lot of
Speaker 1: people that are not going to be offended to focus
Speaker 1: on those people.
Speaker 4: Right, I think this is a perfect way to like
Speaker 4: reach out. I don't think it's gohosh, I don't think
Speaker 4: it's seen as lazy. Ask your friends to share it,
Speaker 4: and I think there is You know, this is such
Speaker 4: a cute, funny way to be like, I haven't asked
Speaker 4: for you know, baby shower gifts or any of these
Speaker 4: other things, Like this is how you can give back
Speaker 4: to me because I want I mean, you're not asking
Speaker 4: for yourself you're asking for this humane society that's incredible.
Speaker 5: And also can always sort of say if you can
Speaker 5: to people. I think just like giving people because sometimes
Speaker 5: you know, people feel uncomfortable asking for money. It's like,
Speaker 5: if you can, if you, if you can do this, great,
Speaker 5: this is what I I would like and you should
Speaker 5: feel good about yourself that you have such an amazing
Speaker 5: friend who this is what she wants.
Speaker 2: For her fiftieth berxactly.
Speaker 4: And if you can't give financially, I would love if
Speaker 4: you share it on your social media exactly, and other
Speaker 4: people may get involved. It can be a whole community effort.
Speaker 4: Like I think this is a wonderful thing to do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love it. I love it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, good job, Adria, go for it.
Speaker 3: Problem solved.
Speaker 2: Well that's all we got.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, well we're going to wrap it up. Monica.
Speaker 1: It was such a pleasure to have you on our show. Yes,
Speaker 1: being here, and I want to hang out when I'm
Speaker 1: back in La.
Speaker 3: Okay, for sure, let's go out.
Speaker 1: We'll go out with Maria and we'll have some drinks.
Speaker 1: Maria has to watch me drink though, because she doesn't drink,
Speaker 1: so I don't drink either.
Speaker 3: But oh well, then they both watch me and I'll.
Speaker 5: Drink until ten o'clock. I'm like everybody who drinks gets
Speaker 5: boring after ten pm, so no worry.
Speaker 3: I'm I'm in bed by nine thirty.
Speaker 2: Oh no problem, me too. Grandma hours. That's what I
Speaker 2: call it. I keep Grandma hours.
Speaker 1: So okay, Well take care. So yeah, and Happy International
Speaker 1: Women's Day. Wow.
Speaker 4: We mentioned this at the start of the show, but
Speaker 4: the team here at Dear Chelsea is celebrating International Women's
Speaker 4: Day this week. For more programming honoring the incredible women
Speaker 4: at the network and worldwide, head over to iHeart Podcasts
Speaker 4: International Women's Day feed by searching Women Take the Mic
Speaker 4: wherever you look for podcasts. We're featured alongside Therapy for
Speaker 4: Black Girls, The Psychology of Your Twenties, Cheeky's and Chill,
Speaker 4: the Nikki Glazer Podcast, and others. That's Women Take the
Speaker 4: Mic on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: Okay, so, Chelsea Handler is my name and comedy is
Speaker 1: my game. Comedy and therapy are my games. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I misspoke. I have added more shows. I added a
Speaker 1: second show in Vancouver, so I have two shows in
Speaker 1: Vancouver March twenty ninth March thirtieth. Then I've added another
Speaker 1: show in Sydney, Australia on July thirteenth, So i have
Speaker 1: two shows in Sydney July twelfth and thirteenth. For other
Speaker 1: shows in Australia at New Zealand, go to Chelseahandler dot com.
Speaker 1: And I've added two shows in Oklahoma, Norman, Oklahoma on
Speaker 1: May third and one in Thackerville, Oklahoma, which is May fourth,
Speaker 1: and then I'll be at the YouTube Theater May eleventh
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles with Matteo Laine and Vanessa Gonzalez and
Speaker 1: Fortune Femmester.
Speaker 3: And Sam Jay. Those are my updates and more shows
Speaker 3: are coming, so pay attention.
Speaker 4: If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email
Speaker 4: at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be
Speaker 4: sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited
Speaker 4: and engineered by Brad Dickard executive producer Catherine Law and
Speaker 4: be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot
Speaker 4: com