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Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin, and you were listening to Here's

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Speaker 1: the Thing from iHeart Radio. It's officially summer, and that

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Speaker 1: means it's time for our tradition at Here's the Thing,

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Speaker 1: where our staff shares their favorite episodes in our Summer

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Speaker 1: Staff series. First up is executive producer Kathy Russo. Kathy's

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Speaker 1: been and Here's the Thing from the very beginning, so

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Speaker 1: when she's selecting a much loved episode, you know it

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Speaker 1: has to be good. Kathy, take it.

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Speaker 2: Away, Thanks Alec. My Summer Staff Pick is a show

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Speaker 2: that features two women that, in my opinion, changed the

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Speaker 2: face of TV. One a generation above me Carol Brunette

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Speaker 2: and one is a generation below me, Lena Dunham. These

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Speaker 2: are two smart women driven by their artistic dreams. They

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Speaker 2: could write, direct, and perform like no other in their generation.

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Speaker 2: They made me laugh and cry. They were funny without

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Speaker 2: being mean. First Lena Dunham. I met her at a

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Speaker 2: screening of her first movie, Tiny Furniture, and immediately became

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Speaker 2: a huge fan. When Girls came out in twenty twelve,

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Speaker 2: a show about four young women living in New York City,

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Speaker 2: I couldn't get enough and watched every episode at least

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Speaker 2: three times. Girls was spot on, so smart and so

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Speaker 2: brave and spoke to me in a way no other

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Speaker 2: show had before. Lena took chances, and I loved her

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Speaker 2: playing Hannah on the show. She had a way of

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Speaker 2: capturing moments I could relate to. Probably the best acting

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Speaker 2: I've ever seen on TV was one of the last

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Speaker 2: episodes of Girls in twenty seventeen. Hannah is single and

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Speaker 2: very pregnant. She spends a day with an old boyfriend

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Speaker 2: played by Adam Driver. Adam's not the father, but they

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Speaker 2: spend a blissful day in the city and consider getting

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Speaker 2: back together and raising this child. They end the day

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Speaker 2: sitting across from each other in a diner and come

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Speaker 2: to the silent, tears strained realization that their tumultuous relationship

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Speaker 2: will never work out. No words, just the expressions on

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Speaker 2: their faces says it all, and it's heartbreaking. Now listen

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Speaker 2: to Alex's interview with Lena. Just as Girls was making

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Speaker 2: it big, Lena.

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Speaker 1: Dunham has achieved an astonishing amount in just three years.

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Speaker 1: Her portrayal of Hannah Horovath and Girls recently won her

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Speaker 1: a Golden Globe Award for Best Actress in a comedy series.

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Speaker 1: This past October, she sold a book of essays and

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Speaker 1: advice to Random House, and her boyfriend is a rock star. Today,

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Speaker 1: she hardly resembles Aura, her character from Tiny Furniture. I

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Speaker 1: thought I wouldn't have much in common with Lena. She's

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Speaker 1: half my age and has been fiercely embraced by my

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Speaker 1: daughter's generation. But oh, how quickly we realized there was

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Speaker 1: common ground between us.

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Speaker 3: Literally, my show's moving into the thirty rock stages.

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Speaker 1: No, yes, we're taking there, moving to Silver Cup. Yes,

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Speaker 1: you and Michael harm.

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Speaker 3: We were in Silver Cup. Then we went to Stey

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Speaker 3: because we couldn't get our stages back because some show

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Speaker 3: that has one word that's about murder took it. And

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Speaker 3: then we are coming back because you guys are leaving,

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Speaker 3: so we're going to be on your stages and in

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Speaker 3: your offices.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Now, as I'm sitting here meeting you for the first

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Speaker 1: time and talking to you for the first time, you

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Speaker 1: are nothing like I imagined you would be. Really nothing. I'm

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Speaker 1: a bit thrown here because you play someone who is

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Speaker 1: I guess in your mind that I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about your vision of what kind of character you wanted

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Speaker 1: to create is a little bit a beat behind everyone else,

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Speaker 1: or I'll let you articulate that what you think she is, I'll.

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Speaker 3: Put though the beat behind idea really speaks to me

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Speaker 3: because I'm always sort of saying when people ask about

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Speaker 3: Han and I'm always sort of saying, she's a version

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Speaker 3: of me, but she's a few years behind me, and

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Speaker 3: she's also sort of a few minutes behind everyone around her.

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Speaker 3: So you really picked up on a concept that I'm

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Speaker 3: sort of always thinking about a little bit when I

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Speaker 3: play her and when I write her.

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Speaker 1: But she's who you used to be.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 3: It's funny. I think I used to I think I

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Speaker 3: in order to convince myself that I should play this character,

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Speaker 3: or that I should even write this character, I had

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Speaker 3: to say, well, I'm just writing myself. It's that easy.

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Speaker 3: I'm just writing myself, because the idea of sort of

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Speaker 3: creating an entire other human can be so intimidating.

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Speaker 1: And who are you though?

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Speaker 3: In real life?

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Speaker 1: In real life? Who are you?

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Speaker 3: I think that Hannah is someone who I'm very capable

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Speaker 3: of being, who's wounded, ambitious but doesn't know where to

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Speaker 3: place it. Hannah sort of the version of myself. If

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Speaker 3: i'd had less understanding parents and sort of less drive

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Speaker 3: to get things done, And I think who I am

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Speaker 3: as a person who was always sort of if I

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Speaker 3: had to describe the war within myself that exists currently,

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Speaker 3: it's sort of the challenge of trying to reconcile the

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Speaker 3: part of me that that always thought I would be, like,

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Speaker 3: you know, a weird gender and women studies teacher who

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Speaker 3: occasionally showed movies at film festivals and hung out in

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Speaker 3: my strange apartment that was stacked high with books. Trying

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Speaker 3: to reconcile that with the part of me that has

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Speaker 3: to like figure out.

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Speaker 1: A tress the cover of Rolling Stone magazine.

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Speaker 3: Exactly, Shoot, the rolling cover of Rolling Stow magazine was

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Speaker 3: to figure out a dress to wear that for an

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Speaker 3: event that and everyone seems to be worried about whether

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Speaker 3: or not the dress is in stores because it has

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Speaker 3: to be my own dress. And so I'm dealing with

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Speaker 3: all these sort of this strange echosystem and all these

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Speaker 3: weird politics that I kind of never imagined would happen

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Speaker 3: to me in my lifetime.

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Speaker 1: You never imagined, No, you really never imagined it.

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Speaker 3: I think my dream situation was that I would be

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Speaker 3: someone who people thought, Oh, she's doing important work in

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Speaker 3: her own little corner.

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Speaker 1: Like a Ra's Chaste cartoon character.

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Speaker 3: Exactly, like a ras Chast cartoon character, or like I

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Speaker 3: think because I went to pretentious private school, the biggest

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Speaker 3: dream you would have is you'd be like I'm going

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Speaker 3: to be Joan Diddyon. That was kind of where your

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Speaker 3: brain was allowed to wantry maybe Nora.

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Speaker 1: E from maybe you'll make films, but you're not going

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Speaker 1: to be in films exactly.

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Speaker 3: And I don't think when I first started acting, I

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Speaker 3: mean I never got parts in high school. I never

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Speaker 3: even I never was able. I think I had a

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Speaker 3: twofold thing about it. One is that it came from

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Speaker 3: a family of artists, and so the idea was sort

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Speaker 3: of like you made your work and then got out

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Speaker 3: of the way of it. Like part of what was

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Speaker 3: I think I internalized the idea that your work was

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Speaker 3: supposed to speak for you. You were not supposed to

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Speaker 3: speak for your work, And so I think I was

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Speaker 3: self conscious about the idea of being any sel self promoting.

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Speaker 3: And although that's not what acting is, it's it is

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Speaker 3: now it's become that. And then I also think that

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Speaker 3: I thought, well, there's people who are professionals who can

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Speaker 3: do this better than me. So I'm just going to

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Speaker 3: act until I have access to the people who should

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Speaker 3: be acting. And sometimes I still feel that way. Sometimes

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Speaker 3: I think, like, you know, I'll do this a little

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Speaker 3: longer and then Michelle Williams can play me every day

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Speaker 3: till I die. Something that's really nice about making the

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Speaker 3: show that isn't that is a comedy that isn't stuck

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Speaker 3: in any sort of I mean, thirty Rock was able

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Speaker 3: to bust out of a lot of network sitcom tropes,

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Speaker 3: but a lot of the time when you're on a

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Speaker 3: I think one of the biggest things that networks prevent,

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Speaker 3: besides curse words and showing your breasts is development. I

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Speaker 3: think that when you play, I think so many sitcom

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Speaker 3: characters end up playing the same version of themselves in

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Speaker 3: various area.

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Speaker 1: This is the thing that we talked about in the

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Speaker 1: meeting to prep this thing with you, which was shows

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Speaker 1: I've seen where the protagonists male or female, they're going

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Speaker 1: through the same set of problems in season six that

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Speaker 1: they were in season one. It's just different lines in

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Speaker 1: different coastars. Yeah, and with you, I'm wondering, do you

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Speaker 1: have a bible on the show. Do you have an

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Speaker 1: arc in your mind, not even on paper, not even

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Speaker 1: approved with your other Could you do this with jud correct?

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Speaker 3: I do it with Judd and a woman named Jenny Connor,

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Speaker 3: who's the other executive producer. And we have a great

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Speaker 3: little writer's room. But our writer's room doesn't really work

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Speaker 3: like It's not like we write a script and then

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Speaker 3: all sit together punching it up. It's much more we

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Speaker 3: sit together at the beginning of the season and really

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Speaker 3: talk through. It's like a giant therapy session where we

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Speaker 3: work out the emotional arc and then we go to it.

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Speaker 1: And when you work out that emotional arc, do you

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Speaker 1: think to yourself, are the things that she's going through now?

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Speaker 1: Your character and the other characters where you're saying to yourself,

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Speaker 1: let's make sure they're not going through this, that there

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Speaker 1: is growth a season from now or by the end

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Speaker 1: of the season completely.

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Speaker 3: And that's why I feel like it's okay for me

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Speaker 3: to cut my hair, It's okay for me to start spinning,

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Speaker 3: or it's okay for me, you know, whatever I whatever

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Speaker 3: to change to change, because I feel as though so

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Speaker 3: much of what this show is about is about seeing

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Speaker 3: these girls off into their adulthood. Like in my Bible,

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Speaker 3: the ideal finale to the show would be a feeling like,

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Speaker 3: you know, they don't have to have kids, they don't

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Speaker 3: have to have husbands, but you look at them and

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Speaker 3: you kind of go, they're on their way. They're more

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Speaker 3: okay than they were when they started, or they're less okay,

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Speaker 3: but we have an understanding of what kind of adult

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Speaker 3: we think they're gonna be.

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Speaker 1: So describe to me, how does it start? How does

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Speaker 1: whose idea was girls? Was it yours?

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Speaker 3: It was mine because I basically I went in, I

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Speaker 3: made this movie Tiny Furniture, and I made it. You know,

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Speaker 3: my mom and sister starred. We shot it in my

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Speaker 3: mom's house, my mom and dad's house. We it was

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Speaker 3: totally populated with friends, some of whom have made their

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Speaker 3: way to Girls with me.

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Speaker 1: And what motivated you don't want to do Tiny Furniture.

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Speaker 3: I had always wanted to be a writer, and I

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Speaker 3: used to think I wanted to be a playwright, and

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Speaker 3: then in college I sort of had this revelation where

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Speaker 3: I thought, like plays you rehearse, and you rehearse, and

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Speaker 3: then they happened twice like I just felt so frustrated

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Speaker 3: by the lack of permanence, Like I'd always been sort

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Speaker 3: of turned on by the fact that when my parents

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Speaker 3: as artists made work, like they had these material items

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Speaker 3: that would outlast them. And I was frustrated that that

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Speaker 3: wasn't a part of the theater experience. So I started

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Speaker 3: making short films, and I made my first feature and

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Speaker 3: went to south By Southwest Film Festival with it, and

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Speaker 3: then I just had and I'd been making web TV,

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Speaker 3: and I just had this itch to sort of tell

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Speaker 3: the specific story, and I wrote the script and the

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Speaker 3: kind well, that's.

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Speaker 1: What I want to talk about, is is that itch

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Speaker 1: meaning beyond the arc of the shooting and the and

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Speaker 1: the career aspects of it or the burgeoning career, what

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Speaker 1: was it about what was going on in your life

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Speaker 1: that you want to do that movie?

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Speaker 3: On a practical, real life level, I wanted to talk

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Speaker 3: about that moment between college and adulthood that felt so

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Speaker 3: floundering and so every day I felt like I was

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Speaker 3: walking through the strangest, most surreal soup. That would mean

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Speaker 3: that on a deeper level, I kind of wanted to

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Speaker 3: talk about chain, which is what I always think is

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Speaker 3: sort of the most interesting place to find characters is

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Speaker 3: in a time of intense change. And so I sort

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Speaker 3: of also wanted to capture this moment where I was.

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Speaker 3: I knew that I wouldn't live at home forever, that

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Speaker 3: my little sister wouldn't be sort of seventeen and ambitious

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Speaker 3: but also stuck in her bedroom forever, that my mom

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Speaker 3: was sort of looking in this beautiful moment where she

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Speaker 3: kind of was I mean, she'd murder me for saying this,

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Speaker 3: but she looked that kind of beautiful way where it's

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Speaker 3: like you're not quite old yet and you just look

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Speaker 3: kind of she just looked kind of perfect to me,

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Speaker 3: and I just.

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Speaker 1: Look a great car.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I just thought, my mother's what I could

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Speaker 3: say exactly, And I just thought, I want to capture

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Speaker 3: all of this. I want to capture our cats, I

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Speaker 3: want to capture our house. I want to remember all

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Speaker 3: of this.

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Speaker 1: And so, so you really love your mom.

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Speaker 3: I'm obsessed with my mom. Okay, I love my mom.

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Speaker 1: But I'm saying, that's interesting that you have that feeling

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Speaker 1: and that's what makes you survey what's around. You wouldn't

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Speaker 1: want to capture that because I find typically people who

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Speaker 1: are not happy they got to wait a while until

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Speaker 1: they can negotiate the pain to go back and talk

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Speaker 1: about that.

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Speaker 3: It's one of the biggest things that inspires me to

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Speaker 3: make work is this feeling of looking around and going,

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Speaker 3: even if you're not perfect, you're all so perfect right now,

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Speaker 3: let's let's capture this and then, you know, I'd love

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Speaker 3: the feeling. I was just watching like Panic and Needle

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Speaker 3: Park last week, that movie which is you know it,

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Speaker 3: Kitty Win, Kitty Gosh, she's so good. Where did Kitty

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Speaker 3: Win go?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let me get that vile out for Kitty Win.

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Speaker 1: She's incredible.

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Speaker 3: But so I was watching that and I was just

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Speaker 3: thinking about how exciting it was to be able to

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Speaker 3: watch sort of like al Pacino at that first moment

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Speaker 3: when he was sort of like he still almost looked

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Speaker 3: a little adolescent and he was still and he was

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Speaker 3: learning his craft.

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Speaker 1: And just behaving on film.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I just love capturing that. And that's something

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Speaker 3: that I've tried to do with girls too, is sort

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Speaker 3: of grab people and go, let's just let's just see

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Speaker 3: you as you are right now.

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Speaker 1: Now. The so the film did well, So then how

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Speaker 1: does girls Happen?

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Speaker 3: Girls happened? Because so then I went to LA and

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Speaker 3: kind of did that. I went like, Okay, I guess

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Speaker 3: what you do next is get an agent, and I

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Speaker 3: guess what you do next is try to figure.

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Speaker 1: Out what I mean. You're on the runway now, Yes.

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Speaker 4: I was.

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Speaker 3: I was on the runway, and I was going around

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Speaker 3: LA doing the sort of what I call the couch

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Speaker 3: and water bottle tour of LA where you meet everybody

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Speaker 3: and have those kind of general meetings where and I

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Speaker 3: remember it was so funny because at first I didn't

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Speaker 3: understand that everybody says to you at the end of

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Speaker 3: the general meeting, oh, I'd love to find a way

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Speaker 3: to work with you. And so I would call my

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Speaker 3: agent after ones and go, oh my god, it was amazing,

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Speaker 3: and he said he wants to find a way to.

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Speaker 1: Work with me, and he meant he what should come

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Speaker 1: clean his pool?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, basically, so you're on the sofa water bottle tour

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Speaker 3: and what happens on self a water bottle tour and

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Speaker 3: my agent, who I feel like, you're not supposed to

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Speaker 3: say you love your agent because it makes you sound

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Speaker 3: really Hollywood.

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Speaker 1: And I have everyone.

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Speaker 3: I love everyone, and also I have the best agent.

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Speaker 3: He's like, really been at it for a long time.

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Speaker 3: He's like a cigar smoking you know, He's what I imagined

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Speaker 3: in age. His name's Peter Benedek, and he said to me.

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Speaker 3: I was sort of saying to him, like maybe I

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Speaker 3: could get I just wanted to move out of my parents' house,

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Speaker 3: and I thought and make more movies. And I was like,

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Speaker 3: maybe I could should write a spec how I met

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Speaker 3: your mother, and I could get staffed on a show.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I didn't know any I didn't know how

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Speaker 3: any of this worked. And he said that I should

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Speaker 3: go for a meeting at HBO, and I did, and

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Speaker 3: I said, well, here's what I'd want to see, is

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Speaker 3: like a show about all my girlfriends, like sort of

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Speaker 3: like Tiny Furniture, but there's more of us, and we

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Speaker 3: don't live with our parents anymore, but it's still about that.

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Speaker 3: It's like it was pitched so weekly, like a year

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Speaker 3: after my movie, but there's more of us and it's

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Speaker 3: a TV show.

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Speaker 1: So the conversation wasn't coming out of and Tiny Furniture

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Speaker 1: in the indie and in the festival world had a

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Speaker 1: very good buzz. There was no conversation, but you just

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Speaker 1: going right into films and making more films. Normally they're

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Speaker 1: gonna want to steer some especially your age was very young,

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Speaker 1: They're gonna go, let's just keep making movies.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, there was a conversation, but I think

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Speaker 3: I picked up on the fact very early, going on

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Speaker 3: the Couch and Water Bottle tour, that the kind of

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Speaker 3: stories that I wanted to tell were not really being

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Speaker 3: funded on a larger scale.

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Speaker 1: And film Tina says that sometimes the Tina I just

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Speaker 1: finish working. Yeah, it seems like it's more difficult to

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Speaker 1: a to have the control you want in the film

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Speaker 1: business and be to say what you want to say.

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Speaker 3: It is, And the fact is I could have kept

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Speaker 3: saying what I wanted to say, you know, making twenty

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Speaker 3: five thousand dollars movies, but I wanted It's weird. The

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Speaker 3: reason that I like having some budget is not because

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Speaker 3: you know, I want to stage car crashes or I

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Speaker 3: want to have you know, ten makeup artists on set,

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Speaker 3: although those things would will would be lovely, But but

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Speaker 3: it's more because of the fact that I do so

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Speaker 3: many jobs, so so exciting to not have to worry

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Speaker 3: anymore about answering the doorbell, about returning the equipment, about

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Speaker 3: making sure that people had the pizza. Also, that's going

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Speaker 3: to happen in TV. And what I has money and

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Speaker 3: has HBO is Time Warner. But they have money, but

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Speaker 3: they use it in this kind of amazing it's this

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Speaker 3: amazing model, which is that they don't have to answer

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Speaker 3: to advertisers in the same way, so HBO can sort

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Speaker 3: of fulfill its odd little interests. And that's what I

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Speaker 3: started out as, and I what I didn't predict was

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Speaker 3: how much I would love the opportunity to develop characters

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Speaker 3: in this way and the kind of the fiber of

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Speaker 3: TV itself.

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Speaker 1: I mean, for me, one thing that I noticed when

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Speaker 1: I went to college an interesting number of people they

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Speaker 1: really knew what they wanted to be. They weren't quite

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Speaker 1: sure how to get there. They had a dream. I

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Speaker 1: want to become a lawyer. I want to become a doctor.

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Speaker 1: I want to go into politics. I want to go

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Speaker 1: into and now people today, it seems like younger people,

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Speaker 1: they really they think they have more time to figure

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Speaker 1: it out. They're turning twenty five and they really don't

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Speaker 1: have that picture and focus. Do you agree?

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Speaker 3: I do agree, And I think a big part of

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Speaker 3: it is being I think the word the Internet has

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Speaker 3: cracked things open in a way that's both beautiful and

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Speaker 3: that it helps you find. There's so many things that

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Speaker 3: I never would have even known about, things that have

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Speaker 3: been huge for me that have existed because of the Internet.

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Speaker 3: And I think that I've been able to partially, you know,

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Speaker 3: connect with people who would be fans of the show

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Speaker 3: because of the Internet. I think, you know, it's always

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Speaker 3: exciting when like there's this website called rookiemag dot com

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Speaker 3: that's run by this girl, Tavi Jevinson, and it's a

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Speaker 3: like a smart teen magazine that exists only on the Internet.

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Speaker 3: And I just think if when I was a teenager

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Speaker 3: there had been that place and that message board, I

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Speaker 3: would have felt like the world was my oyster like

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Speaker 3: just meeting other weirdo girls who had the same who like,

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Speaker 3: you know whatever. At the time, I just wanted to

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Speaker 3: talk to someone about Connor Oberst or something on the Internet,

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Speaker 3: and that would have been possible. But I think now

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Speaker 3: the fact that like the Internet has created so many

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Speaker 3: strange specialized jobs and so many things where it's like,

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Speaker 3: you know, I'm a brand consultant, slash blog enhancer or whatever.

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Speaker 3: People are like suddenly the world feels wide open, but

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Speaker 3: there are less jobs available, and so it's a really

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Speaker 3: confusing moment to make any decisive choice about what you

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Speaker 3: want to do.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting you say that the Internet is responsible for that,

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Speaker 1: and then idea of having too many choices than you

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Speaker 1: need you wind up bout.

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Speaker 3: That could also be a metaphor for like men in

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Speaker 3: their twenties dating. I feel like men in their twenties,

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Speaker 3: like I once had dated a guy who told me

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Speaker 3: that he didn't feel like he could be serious about

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Speaker 3: anyone in New York because it would be like eating

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Speaker 3: at the same restaurant every night in New York. Right,

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Speaker 3: there's so many amazing choices. It's New York.

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Speaker 1: I hope he choked some whate a restaurant. He goes,

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Speaker 1: I shouldn't say that. That's me. That's wrong.

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Speaker 3: I feel like that. So it's helpful to have it

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Speaker 3: backed up by Alec Baldwin.

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Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to here's the

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Speaker 1: thing more in a minute. Lena Dunham didn't have to

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Speaker 1: look far to come up with her character on Girls.

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Speaker 3: Physically, I'd say, Hannah is I mean she's me because

403
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Speaker 3: I play her? But she's it's funny because she's chubby,

404
00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,520
Speaker 3: but she doesn't that's not where her anxiety comes from.

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Speaker 3: Like she's just not I like playing a character who

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Speaker 3: isn't doesn't have a perfect body, but that's not the

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Speaker 3: main source of their anxiety. I feel like we have

408
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Speaker 3: very few female characters on television who don't look like

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Speaker 3: models and aren't constantly discussing it. So, of course Hannah

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Speaker 3: has her moments of self consciousness, just like every woman does,

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Speaker 3: but that's not She sort of doesn't notice that her

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Speaker 3: clothes don't quite fit. She sort of doesn't think about

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Speaker 3: what she eats.

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Speaker 1: It's and I have closed her just to cover you

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Speaker 1: up and keep you warm, exactly. They have some degree

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Speaker 1: of style to the great, but let's.

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Speaker 3: Like a character exactly. And I like she's more interested

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Speaker 3: in like whether her clothes are funny and witty, Like

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Speaker 3: I don't think she really cares about being sexy. She's

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Speaker 3: more just like, oh, this dress like has owls on it?

421
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Speaker 3: How sweet I used to be much in college, I

422
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Speaker 3: dressed like a complete loon. I feel like my dad

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Speaker 3: always told me I look like a lion tamer all

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Speaker 3: the time. I've calmed down just because I realized that

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Speaker 3: you could vests so many vests, red vests, so many

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Speaker 3: red vests, so many like you know, strained boots, pulled

427
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Speaker 3: over my weird leggings with a three flounced skirt. I

428
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Speaker 3: could never accessorize enough. It was oppressive.

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Speaker 1: Now, how many seasons of the show are you signed

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Speaker 1: on to do? Well?

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Speaker 3: You know, it's not clear. I mean HBO contractually has me,

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Speaker 3: I think as an actor for six years, but as

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Speaker 3: a writer, and I wish I should pay more attention

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Speaker 3: to my deals, but I'm just so excited to have

435
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Speaker 3: my job. I just go, okay, whatever you say. But

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Speaker 3: I think my dream world is, you know, I want

437
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:02,760
Speaker 3: to kind of follow like you know how British shows

438
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,679
Speaker 3: always know British shows and thirty Rock always know just

439
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:06,600
Speaker 3: when to get off the air.

440
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,840
Speaker 1: The question becomes how you can maybe you know, do

441
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:16,359
Speaker 1: that TV show? And the schedule is how many months.

442
00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:16,440
Speaker 3: We do it?

443
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:18,160
Speaker 1: Well, how many episodes we've been doing?

444
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:18,440
Speaker 5: Ten?

445
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,119
Speaker 3: So i shoot four and a half months out of

446
00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,000
Speaker 3: the year, then I'm editing, then I'm doing press, then

447
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,320
Speaker 3: I'm writing, then I'm back. So so it's not four

448
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,639
Speaker 3: and a half months. So it's not it's safe months

449
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:33,160
Speaker 3: it's actually more like twelve months. And so would you make.

450
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:34,159
Speaker 1: A movie during the breakfast now?

451
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,399
Speaker 3: No, I couldn't because there was just no time. I

452
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:38,679
Speaker 3: finish shooting in August. I was editing.

453
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:40,680
Speaker 1: Why don't you make a deal with HBO with they'll

454
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:42,479
Speaker 1: finance your films, so you're working for them and it's

455
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:43,040
Speaker 1: all in house.

456
00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,199
Speaker 3: It's very smart. I mean, I really want to make

457
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,320
Speaker 3: a movie. I have two features scripts that I've been

458
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,440
Speaker 3: working on that I just I want to make another

459
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,439
Speaker 3: before I make like a big, massive, ambitious movie. I mean,

460
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,320
Speaker 3: I want to make a creatively ambitious movie, but I

461
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,639
Speaker 3: want to make another small movie I have. I have

462
00:19:57,800 --> 00:19:58,680
Speaker 3: small movie ideas.

463
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:00,640
Speaker 1: Do you have a massive ambitious movie inside you?

464
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,679
Speaker 3: I do. And I'm also I'm writing a book. So

465
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,160
Speaker 3: that's something that was.

466
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:06,200
Speaker 1: Really weird about that.

467
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 3: It's something that was really important to me to start

468
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:09,960
Speaker 3: doing at this point in my list.

469
00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:12,320
Speaker 1: Star and you write and produce your own TV show

470
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,840
Speaker 1: and you're writing a book. Hmm, who did that remind

471
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,800
Speaker 1: me of? What are you going to write a book about?

472
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:20,520
Speaker 3: I'm writing a book. Well, I guess it's about me,

473
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:22,640
Speaker 3: although it's a little less about me because it also

474
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,680
Speaker 3: has advice an advice component, but it's like personal essays.

475
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:27,919
Speaker 1: So is it like Paula Pell's Hey Young Girls.

476
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,879
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I love Hey Young Girls. Makes me

477
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,920
Speaker 3: so happy. Paula Pel is funny. Paula Pel is someone

478
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:35,120
Speaker 3: who's funny and not mean.

479
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, Paula Pel's I mean to the right people.

480
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,640
Speaker 3: She's just a dreamy person. But you know, the thing

481
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:42,440
Speaker 3: that's been so great about writing the book is I've

482
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 3: always loved writing prose, and I wanted to make it

483
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,120
Speaker 3: a part of my career sooner rather than later. Because

484
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 3: I didn't want it to be like when I decided

485
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:50,800
Speaker 3: to write a book in ten years, it was like, oh, look,

486
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,080
Speaker 3: here's a celebrity memoir number fifty seven. I wanted it

487
00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,160
Speaker 3: to really feel like I'm a person who writes prose

488
00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,120
Speaker 3: and that it's a part of my life and career

489
00:20:59,119 --> 00:20:59,600
Speaker 3: for a long time.

490
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:01,960
Speaker 1: Like other people that are writing books, they don't have

491
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 1: TV shows that they're starring in and writing. When you're

492
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,679
Speaker 1: done doing now not just ten but twelve episodes, what

493
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:09,160
Speaker 1: do you have left to go into the book?

494
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:10,440
Speaker 3: There's stuff that's just for the book.

495
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,480
Speaker 1: There's still an example. Well, topic wise, I.

496
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 3: Write a lot about my childhood. In the book, I

497
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 3: write a lot about my parents. I write a lot

498
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,119
Speaker 3: about college and sort of like that. I write a

499
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:20,719
Speaker 3: lot about that period. I write a lot about sort

500
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,120
Speaker 3: of the beginning of being sexual person. I write about relationships.

501
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,399
Speaker 3: I'm writing a lot about sort of female role.

502
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:28,920
Speaker 1: I want to say about sexuality.

503
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 3: It's interesting. I've had to become more conscious about what

504
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:35,680
Speaker 3: I say and what I promote, not in a way

505
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:37,159
Speaker 3: that stifles me, but just in a way where I

506
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 3: realize now that there are seventeen year old girls who

507
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 3: come up to me and tell me that the show

508
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 3: means a lot to them.

509
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,280
Speaker 1: And this is one percent of your audience is influenced.

510
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 1: This is what I learned from someone. One percent of

511
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,360
Speaker 1: your one percent is genuinely and in any way influenced

512
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 1: by what you do and say. That's still tens of

513
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 1: thousands of people.

514
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,600
Speaker 3: It's amazing. It's an amazing thing. And it's like it's

515
00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 3: a platform that you have to take seriously.

516
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,359
Speaker 1: So you are as a role model. What won't Hannah

517
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 1: or the other girls in the quartet do.

518
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 3: Jenny and I talk about this a lot. We won't

519
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 3: fuck someone because they have a nice apartment. There's not

520
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 3: going to be any version of sort of like prostuding yourself.

521
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 3: There's not going to be any version of dating somebody

522
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 3: because he can take you out to nice dinner.

523
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 1: Now, two things that I think are kind of connected,

524
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 1: which is how do men present themselves? You have a boyfriend,

525
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 1: and I don't want to prior to your personal life,

526
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,199
Speaker 1: but you how do men present themselves too differently? You

527
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 1: said that Hannah was this and that and a chubby

528
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 1: girl who did and now you're now the name Lena

529
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 1: Dunham means something else to people. How do men present

530
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:37,719
Speaker 1: themselves to you now different from the way they used to?

531
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 5: It's interesting.

532
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm so bad at knowing if anybody's hitting

533
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:42,399
Speaker 3: on me, Like someone literally has to like beat me

534
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 3: on the head with a drumstick and drag me back

535
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,439
Speaker 3: to their cave for me to understand that it's going on.

536
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,679
Speaker 3: But you know, the thing is is that sleezy people

537
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 3: are attracted to and sleazy people and not sleezy people

538
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 3: are attracted to any sense of GRAVI toss that someone

539
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:03,160
Speaker 3: might have. I So I definitely have had more. I mean,

540
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 3: I definitely have had felt less ignored by the opposite sex.

541
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,680
Speaker 3: But I'm also so bad at perceiving any of it.

542
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 1: And so did you know your boyfriend liked to Well,

543
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 1: we got sat.

544
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 3: Up on a blind date, so I knew he liked well,

545
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:15,120
Speaker 3: I didn't.

546
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:16,879
Speaker 1: Know he liked me, but he was predisposed.

547
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 3: He was predisposed to like me because what we were

548
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 3: going on was a date. And then that was a

549
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 3: special situation because I went, oh, I think he likes

550
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 3: me and I like him.

551
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 1: And tell me if don't want to answer this question,

552
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 1: but I just find it charming. Where did you go

553
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 1: on your first date with your boyfriend?

554
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 3: We went to Blue Ribbon Bakery in the West Village.

555
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 3: And the reason I was happy is because I find

556
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 3: picking a restaurant so anxiety producing, because I feel like, yeah,

557
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 3: because it really is to death star. Also, what if

558
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 3: I choose the wrong restaurant and you have a bad

559
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 3: association with it or you think I'm.

560
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: Sleepy poor on me?

561
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 3: Exactly, it's just the worst. And like what if we

562
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 3: go there and you don't like brand muffin? Exactly? So stressful,

563
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 3: so he said, before I even had to say anything,

564
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 3: He said, if it's stressful for you, I can pick

565
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 3: the restaurant. And I felt like, okay, I'm going to

566
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 3: be in great hands.

567
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 1: Where did you pick?

568
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 3: And then you picked Blue room Maker? And then I

569
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,199
Speaker 3: ate a cheese and then I ordered a hamburger and

570
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 3: he said, I think you should get cheese on it.

571
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:08,160
Speaker 5: It's not nice.

572
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 3: I was so glad he's a very very great person.

573
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 1: To meet you and tell me if I'm onto something here.

574
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 1: You seem like someone that regardless of what you look

575
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 1: like or didn't look like, or what you had or

576
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 1: didn't have, whoever you were, you have a very very

577
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: healthy and kind of guileless sense of who you are,

578
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 1: and you presented yourself to people your entire life, going

579
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 1: this is who I am, and if you like me, great,

580
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 1: and if you don't, there's another six point five billion

581
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,400
Speaker 1: people out there to go for it. Am I right?

582
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 3: I mean that's my stress to me. That's the most

583
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 3: lovely way of putting it. I mean, I think I

584
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 3: think I always had a feeling like if you just

585
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 3: stick around and continue to be yourself, the correct people

586
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 3: will find you. And that's something that's been so wonderful

587
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 3: about the show is that it kind of confirmed that

588
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 3: for me, which is not everyone watches it, but the

589
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,880
Speaker 3: people who watch it, understand it, and that feeling I'm

590
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 3: sure you've had this before of uniting with your appropriate

591
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 3: audience and sort of uniting with your people is like

592
00:24:58,280 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 3: about as comforting as feelings get.

593
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 2: Saturday Night, eight pm, nineteen sixty seven to sometime in

594
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 2: the seventies, I'm a young girl sitting with my family

595
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 2: in front of our black and white TV watching the

596
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 2: Carol Brunette Show. It was an hour long variety show,

597
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 2: and the comedy sketches still make me laugh to this day.

598
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 2: Carol's comedic timing along with her cast mates was pure joy.

599
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 2: Tim Conway would always add libs something in a skit

600
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 2: and they all would laugh so hard you thought they

601
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,120
Speaker 2: were wetting their pants on stage. Carol said she never

602
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 2: broke up on purpose, and at the end of each

603
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 2: show the laugh stopped, but the warmth grew. Carol would

604
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 2: sing the closing theme song that began with I'm so

605
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 2: glad we had this time together. When she finished singing,

606
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 2: she would tug on her ear, which I later found

607
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,160
Speaker 2: out was a silent message for her grandmother that raised her.

608
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 1: My guest today is Carol Burnett.

609
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 5: What brings you to terror?

610
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 4: You?

611
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 1: You vixen, You Starlet, I love you. That gown is gorgeous.

612
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 5: Thank you Salt and the Wind, and I just couldn't

613
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 5: resist it.

614
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 1: That's Carol as Starlett O'Hara making a grand entrance wearing

615
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: a set of curtains as a dress with the rod

616
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: still attached. Harvey Korman is smitten as Captain Ratt Butler

617
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: in this Gone with the Wind parody on the Carol

618
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:38,199
Speaker 1: Burnett Show. The chemistry between the players on this show Burnett, Corman,

619
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 1: and also Vicky Lawrence, Tim Conway and Lyle Wagoner is legendary.

620
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 1: The show ran for eleven seasons. The first five seasons

621
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 1: have been recently released on DVD. They haven't been seen

622
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 1: since airing over forty years ago.

623
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,199
Speaker 5: It is incredible and you see them and it's the

624
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 5: first time we did the soap opera take off, the

625
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 5: first I'm you know, Vicky, and when we started out

626
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 5: and we were pretty raw, pretty raw.

627
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: We're going to get to that because when I watched

628
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 1: the show, I saw so many little tells and so

629
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 1: many little things about how you guys crack each other up. Obviously,

630
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: oh yes, and there's things you guys do to each

631
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: other and you can just see you almost with joy

632
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: and almost loathing that they're like, you're kind of torturing.

633
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,439
Speaker 5: It's just like getting the giggles in church.

634
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: Yes, you know.

635
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 5: But Alec, when we started the show, I wanted to

636
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 5: do it as a live show. We couldn't really do

637
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 5: it live because the studio, which I loved that studio

638
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 5: because it was like a TV TV City Studio thirty three,

639
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 5: which is like a little theater, you know, it's like

640
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 5: senium and the seats are down. It's not like the

641
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 5: tiered things that you have, you know when when other shows,

642
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 5: you know, and so I loved that, but we couldn't.

643
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 5: There were no flies in the theater. By that I

644
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 5: mean where you could fly the scenery in and out

645
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 5: and really do a live show. But I wanted it

646
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 5: to go fast because we had a studio audience there

647
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 5: and I couldn't stand to keep them waiting because if

648
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 5: they get bored and sit there for a long time

649
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 5: while we take our time changing clothes and so forth,

650
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 5: we lose them. So we lose that energy and enthusiasm

651
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 5: that you get when an audience is hot. So I

652
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,919
Speaker 5: would have a bit with the stage hands that I

653
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 5: could do a skin out change faster than they could.

654
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: Lose that sofa across the rough.

655
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 5: And also I didn't want I didn't want to stop

656
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 5: and do pickups something went wrong. I figured, you know,

657
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 5: unless the scenery fell down and knocked us out ahead,

658
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 5: I wanted to keep going. So when somebody would add

659
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 5: lib or do a bit that we had not done before,

660
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 5: we never broke up on purpose ever. Ever, I just well,

661
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 5: let's right, it.

662
00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: Was understood that you would add lib. It was understood.

663
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: That was well, we.

664
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 5: Never said it. It just started happening, so we just

665
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 5: let it go.

666
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: Who was the bad boy in church? Usually? Do you

667
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: have comedy insurance?

668
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 5: He asked, yeah, yeah, because Harvey was trying to put

669
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 5: him on, and then Tim came up and topped him.

670
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 5: I don't suppose you have comedy insurance down there, do you?

671
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: Yeah?

672
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 5: It was brilliant.

673
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: I don't believe when you watch this shows, when you

674
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: watch these shows, your lost episodes, so that audiences from

675
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: our show understand that it was sixty seven through seventy eight, correct,

676
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: Those eleven years and the first five years are the

677
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 1: shows you're referring to as the lost episodes. And when

678
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,719
Speaker 1: you see so this is the crowd young yes, and

679
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: you see over eleven years people get older. Yes, Harvey

680
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: has a nice kind of auburn color to his hair,

681
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: and then Harvey has like a steel color to his hair.

682
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 1: VICKI and Vicky grows older. Everybody, not in any bad way,

683
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: but everybody. Eleven years is a long time. You don't

684
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: see that on TeV. Be matured, be matured. But I

685
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 1: will say with all sincerity that I don't think you'd

686
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: have to go to Fred Astaire and Jeene Kelly in

687
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: my mind to find someone who is as trim and

688
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 1: fit and lithe as you on stage. You never had

689
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: to exercise a day in your life. The show was

690
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 1: your work out. The things you do when you're scissoring

691
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: your way across the floor during the fire scene because

692
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: you think the fire is happening. I look at you

693
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: and going, my god, look at this woman, what she's

694
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: doing to herself. Was it physically as demanding as it seemed?

695
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: I never felt that you didn't know.

696
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 5: I just in it. Well, you know, the adrenaline starts

697
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 5: pumping when you're performing and everything, and I'm really not

698
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 5: that live. I mean, I still can't touch my toes

699
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 5: without bending my knees. I'm not that good, but I

700
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 5: was able to do a lot of stunts and things

701
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 5: like that. I don't know, I just threw myself into it.

702
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: You don't think about it when you're doing it.

703
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 5: And I never hurt myself. I got a few bruises

704
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 5: here and there once in a while, but I never

705
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 5: broke a bone jumping out of windows, falling downstairs.

706
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,479
Speaker 1: It crashing through doors with Burt Rentals exactly. Yeah, it's

707
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: always funny. I can do it if the characters doing

708
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 1: that you know that I'm saving a baby from climbing

709
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: into a well.

710
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 5: I totally agree. And in fact, I never knew sometimes

711
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 5: how I was going to do a character until I

712
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 5: got into the outfit. Interesting, I worked from the outside in.

713
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 5: You know some actors work from the inside out. There

714
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 5: were lots of times I had no idea what I

715
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 5: was going to do until I went into the costume

716
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 5: fitting and saw what Bob Mackie had created for me.

717
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: How did that union with him and that collaboration with

718
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: him begin Where did you first meet.

719
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 5: Bob Well when we were getting ready to do the show,

720
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 5: and we said, you know, costuming is going to be

721
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 5: really important because the costume designer isn't going to just

722
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 5: design for me. That costume designer is going to design

723
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 5: for everybody you see on the screen, dancers, singers, guest stars,

724
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 5: rep company. Everything you see has to be coordinated by

725
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 5: the one person. So we had seen Alice in Wonderland

726
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 5: on television. I remember Carol Channing was a Queen of

727
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 5: Diamonds or hearts or something like that, but fantastic, wonderful costuming.

728
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 5: And then I'd seen Mitzi Keener I think was in Vegas,

729
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 5: and aside from the gorgeous gowns she wore, she also

730
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,239
Speaker 5: did a lot of fall down humor and you know,

731
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 5: fat suits and crazy outfits and so forth. And the

732
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 5: common denominator was Bob Mackie, and we said, you know,

733
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 5: we've got to meet Bob Mackie and see if maybe

734
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 5: he would be the one. So we got in touch

735
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 5: with him and he came over to our house bing bong.

736
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 5: I opened the door and there stood this guy that

737
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,959
Speaker 5: looked like he was twelve years old. Yeah, just fresh

738
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 5: and adorable, and he came in. He was about twenty four,

739
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 5: twenty four to twenty five years old, and we just

740
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 5: liked him right away. We knew he had the talent.

741
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 5: So we hired him right then on the spot, and

742
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 5: it was one of the best decisions. You see me,

743
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 5: who was we my husband? Just talk about your husband, well, Joe,

744
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 5: Joe Hamilton. I was the producer of the Gary Moore Show.

745
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 5: That's where we met. And so when I was going

746
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 5: to do my show, of course he was going to

747
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 5: be the producer.

748
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: So we were and you were on Broadway.

749
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 5: I had been. And then we moved to California. How

750
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 5: was that for you, moving to California? Yeah, well already

751
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 5: I was raised there. Oh yeah, I was raised in

752
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 5: your grandmother in Hollywood.

753
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. Yeah, I'm mean, I know you

754
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:47,719
Speaker 1: grew up in San Antonio.

755
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 5: No, I grew up. I was seven years old. And

756
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 5: then we left and moved to Hollywood.

757
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 1: We at a granny's house. That's right, We're in Hollywood.

758
00:33:55,560 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 5: A one room apartment, one block north of Hollywood Boulevard.

759
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: The one Now this is you pulled on your ear. Yeah,

760
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: that was to say hi, to say hello to her. Yes, yes,

761
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: she And where was she at the end of her life?

762
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: Still in California.

763
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 5: She was still in Californa.

764
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: Did she come and see? Well?

765
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 5: She she died before I got my show, but she

766
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 5: had seen me do the Gary Moore Show, in the

767
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 5: Sullivan Show and so forth.

768
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 1: I'm just thrilled by what you accomplished. Yeah.

769
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 5: Well, at first, when I got the chance to go

770
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 5: to New York from California, because I wanted to be

771
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 5: on Broadway, I wanted to be ethel Merman and Mary Martin,

772
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 5: you know that. And she was not for it. She said,

773
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 5: your bloodstooth and you'll be dead in a week in

774
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 5: New York.

775
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: Why do you think she said that?

776
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 5: She didn't want me to go.

777
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 1: She was trying to talk you out of that. Yeah,

778
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: she didn't want to lose you. Correct to show business.

779
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: Correct is the sodom and gomorrow. She just didn't want

780
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: me to be away from her.

781
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, to leave her. But when I got my first show,

782
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 5: it was a Paul Winchell Kitty TV show. I auditioned

783
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 5: and I got a gig on that, and I called

784
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 5: Nanny and I said, Nanny, I'm going to be on

785
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 5: Paul Winchell's show Saturday. And she said, we'll say hello

786
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 5: to me. I don't think they're gonna let me say Sanny. Yes,

787
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 5: So we we figured out i'd pull my ear which

788
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,879
Speaker 5: meant hi, Nanny, I love you. And then later when

789
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,240
Speaker 5: I got successful, it meant high nanny, I love you. Your

790
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 5: checks on the way.

791
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, and when you go how would you describe when

792
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: you're on Gary Moore Show? You're one of a company, yes,

793
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: and you come to Los Angeles to do your show

794
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 1: and you're part of a company, but you're not just

795
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 1: part of a company. You're the star of the show.

796
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 1: It's your show. However, I remember transition, but.

797
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 5: I remember Gary Moore, and I learned a lot from him.

798
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 5: He was so wonderful and it was his show, The

799
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,720
Speaker 5: Gary Moore Show, and it was very popular, variety comedy

800
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:58,359
Speaker 5: variety show. And Derberd Kirby was a sidecar. Gerbert and

801
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 5: Me and I'm Mary and Laura were the second bananas,

802
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 5: but he never treated us as second bananas. For instance, Alec,

803
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 5: we would come in on a Monday to read the

804
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 5: script for that week, and he'd look at it and

805
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 5: he said, and he'd have a joke or something. He said,

806
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 5: you know, I can't I can't give this joke to

807
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 5: Dirward he can do it better than me. Or give

808
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 5: this line to Carol. She she can say it funnier

809
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,280
Speaker 5: than I can't. So it was a true rep company.

810
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 5: And that's what I learned about my Showmple. He set

811
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 5: a true you know, so his name was on it.

812
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 5: But we were a true rep company. My name was

813
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 5: you know, at the head of it. We were a

814
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 5: true rep company. Because when that happens and you don't

815
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 5: want to hog it, you know, the show gets better.

816
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 5: You give it to Tim, you give it to who's

817
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 5: got yeah and do it?

818
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 2: You know.

819
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 5: Oh, you know, years ago when I was doing the

820
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 5: Garrymore Show, one of the guests that week one week

821
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 5: was ed Wynn, you know, the old wonderful Vaudevillian comedian.

822
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 5: And so we were sitting around lunch one day and

823
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 5: he was regaling us with stories and stuff, and he

824
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,799
Speaker 5: said he started to talk about the difference between a

825
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 5: comic and a comedic actor, and Gary said, what is it?

826
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 5: He said, Well, a comic says funny things like Bob Hope.

827
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 5: A comedic actor like Jack Benny says things funny.

828
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: Well, is that good? Who was the woman you're in

829
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: a sketch, the one with the French Revolutionary sketch February She.

830
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 5: Was on our show nineteen times. She's still with us,

831
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 5: Nanny's about. She's in her nineties now, and she was

832
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 5: wonderful to work with, absolutely wonderful.

833
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: You are You see you're talking to someone who you know.

834
00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 1: Back then, show business was show business. He did Broadway,

835
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 1: did sitcoms and variety shows like yours, the old great

836
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 1: variety shows you don't see as much anymore. You did

837
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: game shows. Password, they passed Alan Ludden, Yes, you saw.

838
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 1: You saw Jean Rayburn with that antenna like microphone.

839
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 5: The match game. Richard Dawson was.

840
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. And who was the one that was

841
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: Klugman's wife. Oh, oh, Brett Brett, Summers, Brett, those people,

842
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 1: because you knew they all had like a flask underneath

843
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 1: the desk were having a drink. It was a party.

844
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:36,280
Speaker 5: Well, they did that with the Hollywood Square.

845
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: Hollywood Square, it'd.

846
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 5: Have they would have breaks and everybody would.

847
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: Get snucker exactly. We would do. Paul into my house

848
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 1: to harass my mother. I had a childhood that was

849
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 1: just immersed. It was just a wash in this comedy.

850
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 1: I watched you, I watched Gleason, I watched Alan Funt.

851
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a kid born in nineteen fifty eight,

852
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: grew up in the sixties watching TV. Pretty much abandoned

853
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 1: TV after that. And then I go and I go

854
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 1: to acting school, and of course everyone wants to do

855
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:12,359
Speaker 1: O'Neill and check Off and Ibsen and we all want

856
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 1: to plumb the depths of our soul, and rightfully so.

857
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: But then I do a sitcom and I realized I'm

858
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 1: stealing from all those people that I saw, And no

859
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 1: one more than Corman, no one more than Mean. He

860
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: is so talented. He was one is timing and his

861
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: tone he could.

862
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 5: When he did Zachary Scott in Mildred Fears, you know,

863
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 5: unbelievable how he was, smarmy he was, and he channeled

864
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 5: Clark Gable. I mean, I swear he didn't know how

865
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 5: he was. He was so nervous that week when we

866
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 5: were going to do Win with the Wind and he said,

867
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 5: I can't do Gable. Okay, But the minute he got

868
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 5: into the drag, he became again.

869
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 1: What I was talking about.

870
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 5: He became costume led the way, yeah, and that wig

871
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 5: and the mus sash and the whole outfit and everything.

872
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 5: He became Clark Gable.

873
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 1: The show is, of course, I mean I want to

874
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: talk about it in terms of not how things have

875
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: changed because I think people beat that to death a

876
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,720
Speaker 1: little bit. But I mean, you're a woman, it's your show.

877
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: And did everybody treat you the way you wanted to

878
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 1: be treated back then? Or was all like yeah, yeah, sure, honey,

879
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 1: put Joe on the phone.

880
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:25,439
Speaker 5: That's about right.

881
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 1: They did well.

882
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 5: I it was my doing too, you know. I in

883
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 5: that era, the only one who really would speak up

884
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 5: was Lucy. She was very strong. But it's not in

885
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 5: my nature to take over confront or anything. You know,

886
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 5: if a sketch wasn't working or something, instead of like

887
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 5: gleaes and or Sid would say, look, guys, this stinks, now,

888
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 5: come on, you got to fix it. But but you

889
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 5: know they would do that. I would say, I'd call

890
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,879
Speaker 5: the writers down into the rehearsal hall and I'd say,

891
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 5: you know, guys, I'm not doing this too well. Do

892
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 5: you think maybe you could help me out with a

893
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 5: different line here or there, because you know, otherwise I

894
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 5: would have been a bitch in their other way, you know.

895
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,399
Speaker 1: And yeah, and I hired the writers. Joe, how many

896
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 1: writers did you have.

897
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 5: Well, we had about seven for the comedy, and we

898
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 5: had three special material writers who did all the original

899
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 5: music and songs in medley and finales.

900
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 1: And sofa Like SNL house, they have a music department.

901
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 5: Right, and so that was fine. But I would have

902
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 5: a say and I'd walk into the writer's room. Ernie

903
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 5: Rosen was our head writer, and I say, you know,

904
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 5: I'd love to do Mildred Peers. Can we do Mildred

905
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 5: Pierce someday? Or I want to do Postman Always Rings twice,

906
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 5: Double Indemnity, African Queen Love Story, all of those you got, well,

907
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,320
Speaker 5: we never did that. Let me go back and do

908
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 5: that one, you know. And so they would do that.

909
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:57,800
Speaker 5: But I did dream a sketch once.

910
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: I dreamed can you say it on the air?

911
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 5: Was sure it was. I dreamed it, and we put

912
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 5: it on the air. I was in a shower, I

913
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 5: mean the door covered me, you know, and the water

914
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 5: was coming down. I was, you know, getting wet and

915
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 5: washing and I'm singing. Well in the moment I wake up,

916
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 5: I dream a little dream of you and I'm singing.

917
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 5: The band is playing so forth and then I turned

918
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:28,479
Speaker 5: the water off, get a towel, kind of dry off,

919
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 5: wrap it around myself, open the door, exit and the

920
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 5: camera pans in and there are three musicians and tuxedos

921
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 5: playing ringing.

922
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,959
Speaker 1: Wet is there.

923
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 5: It worked, It was very funny.

924
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:46,399
Speaker 1: So you had those writers, and how much writing did

925
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: you do? I did expand over the years where you

926
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 1: became more confident. So how about this and about this one?

927
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 5: We wrote on our feet. When we'd get the sketch,

928
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 5: we'd start to rehearse and Harvey would say, you know,

929
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,320
Speaker 5: can I I just feel like saying this and instead

930
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 5: of that, so we do it. I would do it

931
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 5: tim so forth, and I have to compliment our writers.

932
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 5: They never complained. They came down and if it was

933
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 5: funny and working, they said, great, keep it in.

934
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: Carol tells a story about her friend Lucy hall Ball

935
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,800
Speaker 1: addressing the writers of The Lucy Show when the pilot

936
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: wasn't working. Lucy wasn't afraid to speak her mind. She

937
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 1: told her kid, that's when they put the S on

938
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 1: the end of my last name. Explore the here's the

939
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: thing archives. I talk with Kristin Wigg, who early on

940
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:40,879
Speaker 1: preferred her scenes unscripted.

941
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 4: For some reason. It was less scary to me than

942
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 4: having words in front of me, because I think when

943
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,320
Speaker 4: you're handed a script, you know that you're supposed to

944
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 4: do it in a certain way, and people will think like,

945
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,959
Speaker 4: how is she reading this? But when you're improvising, there's

946
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 4: nothing to compare it, tou and you can do whatever,

947
00:43:58,640 --> 00:43:59,280
Speaker 4: Blanche Dupi.

948
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, Now take a listen at Here'sthething, Dot Org. This

949
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 1: is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing.

950
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 1: The Carol Burnett Show was an ensemble show that welcomed

951
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:23,280
Speaker 1: the biggest stars of television and film as its guests.

952
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:27,720
Speaker 1: Burt Reynolds, Jerry Lewis, Phyllis Diller, the Jackson Five Share.

953
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 1: Everyone wanted to work with Carol.

954
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 5: That was what we talked about, you know, at the

955
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 5: get go, I said, you know, aside from having a

956
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 5: rep company, I want to have guest stars. But I

957
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 5: don't want to have a guest star, say like a

958
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 5: Steve Lawrence who would come on and just sing a

959
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 5: song and maybe we'd see him next in the finale.

960
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 5: I wanted to integrate everybody into the show so many times,

961
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 5: I mean almost every sketch, Almost every guest star we had,

962
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 5: we put in sketches, so they were throughout the.

963
00:44:58,200 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: Show, remember of the company.

964
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, correct, And so that's certainly what Burt.

965
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: Was without naming names. When people came out, were some

966
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: better than others? Yes? What did you do when they

967
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: came on? Did you just kind of diminish the role

968
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: for the show?

969
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 5: No? No, they were all pretty good, but some were.

970
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 1: You guys have knows for that.

971
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 5: Fabulous Steve Lawrence is one of the funniest human beings

972
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 5: in the world and hysterical, and he was one of

973
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 5: my favorite sketch performers. We did Postman Always Drinks twice,

974
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 5: We did African Queen together, we did Double Indemnity together,

975
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 5: we did From Here to Eternity together.

976
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: I mean.

977
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 5: And he was brilliant. And so when we first went

978
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:41,399
Speaker 5: into syndication many years ago, we had to cut all

979
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:43,879
Speaker 5: the music out, so it was only a half hour

980
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 5: in syndication of the sketches because of cost of clarences

981
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 5: and all of that. So Steve, of course all of

982
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 5: his music was cut out and so forth. But one

983
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 5: time during this time, he and Edie were in an

984
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 5: airport one day and these teenage girls ran up up

985
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 5: to him and said, you're that funny guy on the

986
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 5: Brunette Show. And he used to say, if you're long

987
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 5: cut my song, don't.

988
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 1: Cut the cut my song. I can sing anytime, yeah,

989
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 1: but I can't do this anytime. Who were some of

990
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: the other ones that came on that you Ken.

991
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 5: Barry wonderful, wonderful, but sing dance. He was in Chris Well.

992
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 5: He's a great dancer, great hoofer, and he sings and

993
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 5: he's funny. He was adorable and so we used him

994
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 5: a lot. Bernadette Peters was the first.

995
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:33,879
Speaker 1: She was a kid.

996
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 5: She was the first person we asked, we signed. She

997
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 5: wasn't on our very first show, but she was the

998
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 5: first person we asked to be on our show.

999
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 1: Who was some of that surprised you? Oh gosh, if

1000
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 1: you remember who was a movie star, maybe they came

1001
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 1: on that surprised you.

1002
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 5: Betty Grabel. No, we had Betty because I was raised

1003
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 5: in the forties and so you know, she was my

1004
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 5: favorite movie star and so I was thrilled when we

1005
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 5: got her on the show. She was funny, very very sharp, funny,

1006
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 5: wonderful sense of humor. And at the same time on

1007
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 5: that show was Martha Ray. So we had Betty Grabel

1008
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 5: and Martha Ray. And that was the first time we

1009
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:16,839
Speaker 5: ever did the soap opera as the Stomach Turns, and

1010
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 5: they were in it.

1011
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:25,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, your show plays during a time of incredible political

1012
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 1: upheaval in the country, the late sixties in the early seventies.

1013
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 1: It doesn't get any more tumultuous, pretty heavy. And was

1014
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 1: that something that you cast an eye toward or did

1015
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:38,880
Speaker 1: you decide to ignore it completely?

1016
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,759
Speaker 5: Well, I don't know if it was a decision to

1017
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 5: ignore it, but we just didn't do it. Nothing political, No,

1018
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 5: because I don't know. I'm a clown and I just

1019
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:50,879
Speaker 5: wanted to a lot.

1020
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you about it.

1021
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 5: I just want belly laughs. That's what I wanted, you know,

1022
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 5: like a Sid Caesar. You know, I loved his show,

1023
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:00,240
Speaker 5: And so that's really.

1024
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 1: You consider yourself a comic or a comic comedic actor,

1025
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,840
Speaker 1: comedic act, right exactly, because for you that range I

1026
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 1: want to get back to the Vietnam era thing. But

1027
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:11,840
Speaker 1: for you, you see you come in and of course

1028
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 1: the wardrobe and the wig and the eyebrows make it

1029
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 1: in Mildred fierce the moment you walk in. But also

1030
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: you have that core of Joan oozing out of you

1031
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 1: when you walk on. Oh, I just and then you

1032
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: dump out of it. And you can go from one

1033
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 1: extreme to the other and then you're a clown and

1034
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: then you're doing voices and you're the character's collapsing in

1035
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 1: that way and.

1036
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 5: Kind of you know, in the family sketch, Eunice and

1037
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 5: Mama and Ed you know.

1038
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 6: Sorry, sorry, Well we did a little We did about

1039
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 6: thirty five of those, and one time we had Maggie

1040
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:52,840
Speaker 6: Smith on the show, and so the sketch was with

1041
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 6: the family.

1042
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 5: Maggie Smith was a school teacher and she called Eunice

1043
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 5: and Ed and Mama in to talk about the fact

1044
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 5: that Unison Ed's son was a bully. Bubba was you

1045
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 5: never saw him, but was a Bubba in school, and

1046
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 5: she wanted to discuss it with us. Well, during the

1047
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 5: course of the sketch, she discovers why poor Bubba is

1048
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 5: that way. It's because of this horribly dysfunctional family.

1049
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:19,879
Speaker 4: Right.

1050
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 5: So, I don't know whose idea it was in rehearsal.

1051
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:24,880
Speaker 5: Might have been Harvey's, it might have been mine, I

1052
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 5: don't know. We decided, just as an acting experiment, let's

1053
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 5: not do it as these characters. Let's do this sketch

1054
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 5: as if it's a one act And so we did it.

1055
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 5: We didn't go over the top with the screeching and

1056
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 5: all of that. We did it very straight. Now, those

1057
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 5: sketches never had jokes in them. They were all about character.

1058
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 5: So when we did that, it was devastating. It was

1059
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 5: like doing a very serious one act when Eunice is

1060
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:05,880
Speaker 5: trying to to defend her role as a mother. It

1061
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:08,720
Speaker 5: was very very serious. So that was really great writing.

1062
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:12,359
Speaker 5: And then we topped it off with the way we

1063
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 5: talked and all of that scream like that you and

1064
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 5: then it became funny. It was a great piece of

1065
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 5: writing and a great acting experiment. We just did it

1066
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:22,320
Speaker 5: in rehearsal.

1067
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,359
Speaker 1: You partnered with your then husband. Yes, no, you didn't

1068
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 1: stay married to him.

1069
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 5: We were married for almost twenty years.

1070
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 1: Right, and you got divorced. But during the time you

1071
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 1: were married, that was a good thing.

1072
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 5: We were doing the show.

1073
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:36,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're doing the show, and you're doing a show

1074
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:40,399
Speaker 1: with your husband, day in, day out with your husband. See,

1075
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 1: I love that idea, And some people think that's anathema

1076
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 1: to them. They never want to do that.

1077
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 5: Well, is that like, Well, I kind of liked the

1078
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 5: extent you want to say, I let him be the boss.

1079
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 5: He protected you. Yeah, he totally protected me. And you know,

1080
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,800
Speaker 5: I could just come in and have fun. Right, he

1081
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:59,319
Speaker 5: worked with the writers and the this and the that

1082
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 5: you know that I would work with the writers was

1083
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 5: when we were staging it.

1084
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:05,880
Speaker 1: And that's when do you think you were funny?

1085
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 5: Yes?

1086
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: Did you crack him up?

1087
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 5: I'm not really that way in person, as they say

1088
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:14,240
Speaker 5: in real life. Don't you love that term? What's somebody

1089
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:16,880
Speaker 5: like in real life? I'm very kind of quiet?

1090
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:18,240
Speaker 1: And was he honey?

1091
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, he had a great sense of him.

1092
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:20,799
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1093
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 1: He wasn't a performer in any way.

1094
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 5: Well, he actually was a member of the Skylarks, which

1095
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 5: was a okay, The Skylarks was a great musical group

1096
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 5: like the High Lows and so for you know, and

1097
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 5: he started out writing special material music material for the

1098
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 5: Dinoshaur show years ago.

1099
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 1: Wow, you know your show was done in a different

1100
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 1: era in terms of standards and practices. What was that like?

1101
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 1: Did you sit there sometimes they go, No, they left

1102
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: us alone, They left you alone. We had when you

1103
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 1: stick that sword in Harvey Korman's crotch? What do they

1104
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: say about that? It was an accident? Was it an accident? Oh?

1105
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 5: Yes? You oh, you know one time though we were

1106
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:10,319
Speaker 5: doing we had this wonderful censor that sat and you

1107
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 5: know Charlie Petty John, God bless him, and he was

1108
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 5: a hoot. We just loved him anyway. He never bothered

1109
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 5: with anything. So Harvey and I were doing a sketch

1110
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:22,280
Speaker 5: where I was a nudist and I was being interviewed

1111
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 5: by him like Edward R. Murrow, you know, and I'm

1112
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,799
Speaker 5: behind a fence that says keep out and a bare

1113
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 5: shoulder and you know, I'm leaning on the fence bare

1114
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 5: legs with high top sneakers on. So it was jokes

1115
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:38,400
Speaker 5: about a nudist colony, right. So one of the lines

1116
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 5: was Harvey said, so tell me, how how do you

1117
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 5: new this? What do you do for recreation? And my line, well,

1118
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 5: we have dances every Saturday night, you know. And he said, oh,

1119
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:51,319
Speaker 5: how do you new this dance? And my line was

1120
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:55,840
Speaker 5: very carefully well. For some reason the higher ups Charlie

1121
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:59,839
Speaker 5: didn't mind that line. They said, no, that's too too suggestive.

1122
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 5: Come up with something else, are you ready? So this

1123
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 5: is what we came up with, and this is what

1124
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 5: went on the air. So what do you do, Well,

1125
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 5: we have dances every Saturday night? Well, how do you

1126
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 5: knew this dance?

1127
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:13,839
Speaker 1: Cheek to cheek?

1128
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 5: And and that was funnier.

1129
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 1: You know, there's material that gets revived and it comes up,

1130
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:31,239
Speaker 1: none more so than Annie and you are the miss

1131
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:32,880
Speaker 1: Hannigan as far as I'm concerned.

1132
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 5: Thank you.

1133
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 1: And who directed that film? John Houston? Was that like

1134
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 1: for you?

1135
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 5: Well, it's very funny, you know. He was not really

1136
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 5: uh into musicals or right.

1137
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 1: King.

1138
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:46,319
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1139
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:49,240
Speaker 5: I have a theory. Race Stark produced it, of course, okay,

1140
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 5: And I have a theory. Race Dark never liked to

1141
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:56,359
Speaker 5: get a no out of anybody. I think this is

1142
00:53:56,600 --> 00:54:00,400
Speaker 5: all in my mind that Ray called John Hugheston to

1143
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 5: play Daddy war Bucks. That's my theory. And because he

1144
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:09,800
Speaker 5: would have been wonderful Daddy Warbucks, and uh, he didn't.

1145
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:12,360
Speaker 5: Mister Houston didn't want to do it. So Ray, not

1146
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 5: wanting to get a no, said well then how about

1147
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 5: directing it? That's my theory, you know. But he was

1148
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:22,479
Speaker 5: find the movie. Finny did the movie. Yeah, and Tim

1149
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:25,839
Speaker 5: Curry and Bernadette Peters we were the villains, the three villains,

1150
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:30,359
Speaker 5: and I love doing it. I loved doing uh. And

1151
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:35,240
Speaker 5: something that was just great fun was we would sing live.

1152
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:39,400
Speaker 5: I sang Little Girls live. It was not pre recorded.

1153
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 5: The orchestra was previously you.

1154
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 1: Were I was not living. They would play, they would

1155
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:47,839
Speaker 1: and I sang, they played a track, and you sang,

1156
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 1: I sang live and great number you and him doing

1157
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 1: you doing that and him doing easy Street?

1158
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 4: Right?

1159
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 1: How was John to work two takes?

1160
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 5: That said print?

1161
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,920
Speaker 1: That's it. He knew what he wanted, had the right people.

1162
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 5: One of the funniest pieces of direction I ever got

1163
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,839
Speaker 5: was when I went to him, I said, Uh, I

1164
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 5: talked to him. I said, you know, I think she

1165
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:15,360
Speaker 5: should drink, because she's really drink. I mean, she should

1166
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 5: have a little you know, you know, uh knock him

1167
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 5: back every so often because she's miserable, you know, and

1168
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 5: asy's kids and so forth. So the only kind of

1169
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 5: solid she gets is to knock him back a little bit,

1170
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:29,799
Speaker 5: you know. And so he said, well that's a very

1171
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:32,760
Speaker 5: good idea there, Yes, that's good. And so I said, okay,

1172
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 5: so I'm not going to play her drunk, but I'm

1173
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:36,480
Speaker 5: going to play her like she you know, she kind of.

1174
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 1: She needs one.

1175
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:40,759
Speaker 5: She needs one. And so the first scene was with

1176
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:45,399
Speaker 5: Hannigan and uh the secretary who's coming in to get

1177
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 5: to uh get Annie, you know. And so I said, mister,

1178
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 5: he call me John. Dear, Uh, mister John, how do

1179
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 5: you see this? How do you want me to do?

1180
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 1: He said?

1181
00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:03,320
Speaker 5: He said, just covort, dear, for I had we finished,

1182
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 5: We wrapped. But what they did, they made a big mistake.

1183
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 5: They filmed Easy Street with four hundred dancers and singers

1184
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 5: on the Easy Street with a monkey grinder, and we

1185
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 5: would jump on fire escapes and jump all It just

1186
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:25,200
Speaker 5: was overkill. At that time. They spent a million dollars

1187
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:27,760
Speaker 5: on that one number. It took a week to shoot,

1188
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 5: and Tim and Bernadette and I said, this is it

1189
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:35,240
Speaker 5: should just be the three villains in the Orphanage, because

1190
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:37,359
Speaker 5: that's the way it was in the original. They are

1191
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 5: killing this song. But okay, so it wrapped. So I

1192
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 5: went back to Honolulu and I had a procedure done

1193
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:52,880
Speaker 5: on my chin. I had always wanted a bit because

1194
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:58,239
Speaker 5: I had a weak chin. And so this oral surgeon, no, no,

1195
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 5: he pulled it somehow. He pulled the out three millimeters.

1196
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:03,480
Speaker 1: Didn't have the full John DeLorean implant.

1197
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 5: No, no implant. So anyway, so I had a little

1198
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 5: more of a chin, which I felt was good. Wasn't

1199
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 5: Kirk Douglas. It was just a little more of a chin. Okay,

1200
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 5: So I had that done by this oral surgeon in Honolulu. Now,

1201
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 5: two months later, I get a call from racetar we're

1202
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 5: going to reshoot the Easy Street number. I said, well,

1203
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 5: that's great. I said, but Ray, you know now I

1204
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 5: have a chin And he said oh. And I explained

1205
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 5: it to him. He said, oh, with all that Hannigan drag,

1206
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 5: you know, not gonna worry about it. Also, it's not

1207
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 5: going to be pictured a picture. It'll be a totally

1208
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 5: separate thing. But we're just going to do it with

1209
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 5: the three of you in the orphanage. And it is

1210
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 5: a great So we all flew back and we report

1211
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 5: to work and there's John Houston sitting here and so forth,

1212
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 5: and we're going to shoot it. And he said, well,

1213
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 5: this is what I want to do. He said, I

1214
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 5: would like to take it from when Carol ran into

1215
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 5: the closet to get Annie's lock it. When she comes

1216
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 5: back out, that's where we'll pick it up.

1217
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 1: And I thought, oh oh.

1218
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 5: So I went up and I said, mister Hugh called

1219
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 5: me John, mister Houston, Uh, two months ago, when I

1220
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 5: ran into the closet, I didn't.

1221
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 1: Have a chin, Brave exactly.

1222
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 5: Now you're picking up where I come out of the

1223
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 5: closet and I have a chin. I just thought I

1224
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:28,960
Speaker 5: would call that to your attention. And here is what

1225
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 5: he said. He thought and thought, and he said, oh well, well,

1226
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 5: dear than, just come out looking determined. Is that a

1227
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 5: great piece of direction?

1228
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 1: I remember that. That's clever. I want to say this.

1229
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 1: You know who you are to all of us who

1230
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 1: grew up watching TV then, and I can say to

1231
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:54,920
Speaker 1: you from the bottom of my heart and without equivocation,

1232
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 1: what people think of when they think of you, when

1233
00:58:57,640 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 1: they think of you as you're the most talented woman

1234
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 1: was ever on TV. You're the most talented woman that

1235
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 1: was ever on TV. You really are. Because there's a

1236
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 1: lot of people who are like you, and they did

1237
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 1: some things that were great, but none of them did

1238
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 1: as much as you did as well as you did

1239
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 1: and had the warmth and the sweetness and the nut

1240
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 1: and the insanity. I mean, I'm assuming there's some therapists

1241
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 1: out there who must know something about you out there

1242
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 1: in Beverly Hills. We won't get into that, but you

1243
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:32,880
Speaker 1: are the most talented woman that was ever on TV. Ever.

1244
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 5: Excuse me, I've got to go down and buy a

1245
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 5: bigger hat.

1246
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 1: Just look determined. Just just look determined today. Just cavort,

1247
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 1: just cavort out there in New York.

1248
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:53,440
Speaker 5: I'm so glad we had this time together, just to

1249
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 5: have a laugh.

1250
00:59:57,560 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 1: If you've seen the Carol Burnett Show, then you wreckon

1251
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 1: nies this tune. Carol ended her show each week singing

1252
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 1: this song that her former husband and then producer wrote

1253
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:12,280
Speaker 1: for her. The Screen Actors Guild will bestow the twenty

1254
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 1: fifteen Life Achievement Award upon Carol Burnett early next year.

1255
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:37,760
Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin you're listening to. Here's the thing