1 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:15,319 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace in the last hours, a 2 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: bombshell discoveries in the murder of beautiful young girl Gabby Petito, 3 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: her body left out in a dispersed camping area, you know, 4 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: the tetons to decompose. Now we learn that so called 5 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: boyfriend Brian Laundry, who throttled her and bludgeoned her dead, 6 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: then used her credit card sending fake texts all the 7 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: way across the country back home to Florida, did actually 8 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: make some self absorbed musings in writing claiming responsibility for 9 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: Gabby's murder? What exactly did that note books say? I 10 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories, Thank you for being 11 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and series Exam one eleven. 12 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: First of all, take a listen to our cut four 13 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,680 Speaker 1: to one News Nation. We know that according to the FBI, 14 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 1: there was a note in the notebook where Brian Laundry 15 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: claimed responsibility for Gabby's death. But what else did he say? 16 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: Was it a long note? Did he give a motive? 17 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: It would be very very interesting to see that. It's 18 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: interesting even wondering where is the notebook right now? Because 19 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: the Laundry family attorneys Steven Bertolino told us that they 20 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 1: were going through the process of taking evidence back both families. 21 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: I was messaging with him earlier tonight, trying to sort 22 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: of get that information out of him. I asked, can 23 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: you say where the notebook is right now? And can 24 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 1: you tell us what was in the notebook? And he 25 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: just said no and no. Why won't stay Bertolino, the 26 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: Laundry family attorney, shut up and go away. There's really 27 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: no nice way to put it. I mean, not very 28 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: many lawyers get it, but there is a point in 29 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: Core and elsewhere when you should just sit down and 30 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: try your best to keep your lips together. Because he 31 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 1: keeps referring to Gabby's murder as a tragic incident, a tragedy. 32 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: It was a murder, and he keeps talking about how 33 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: it's all been very sad. It's sad because Brian Laundry 34 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: murdered her. And I don't take to him putting Brian 35 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: Laundry the killer, the abuser in the same pot with 36 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: Gabby Petito and her family. No, take a listen to 37 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: our cut four seventeen. These are our friends at wp 38 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: b F. The FBI's final report into the killing of 39 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: Gabby Petito does more than just wrap up the case. 40 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: It includes details never shared before and the former FBI 41 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: agent Stewart Kaplan. The biggest detail is the fact that 42 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: Gabby's fiance, Brian Laundry, confessed to killing her. Obviously, there 43 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: is a confess that satisfies law enforcement that Brian Laundry 44 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: in fact took responsibility. According to the report, the confession 45 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: was written in the notebook found with Laundry's remains. The report, however, 46 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: does not give specifics of the confession, if Laundry said 47 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 1: exactly what happened or why it happened. I think we're 48 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: all interested to know how it escalated to the point 49 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: where you have Brian Laundry taking the life of Gabby Petito. 50 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: The report does say Laundry tried to cover up the murder, 51 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: saying he used Gabby's debit card on his drive back 52 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: to Florida from Wyoming, and he also sent text messages 53 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: from her phone to his phone. The FBI says his 54 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: actions quote are indicative of mister Laundry attempting to deceive 55 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: law enforcement by giving the impression that miss Petito was 56 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: still alive. Confession notebook, schmotebook, It's all self absorbed woke 57 00:03:53,800 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: musings by a woman beater, self absorbed, self, just defying 58 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: self pitying. All three of those start with the word self, 59 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: because that's all Brian Laundry was concerned with him self. 60 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: With me and I'll star panel to make sense of 61 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: what we know right now. High profile lawyer joining us 62 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 1: out of Jacksonville. Former fed with the FBI, FBI agent, 63 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: author of Arrest Proof Yourself at Delle Carson Law dot com. 64 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: Renown in psychoanalysts, joining us out of Beverly Hills. Doctor 65 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Start a 66 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: hit series on Netflix, Bling Empire, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, 67 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath my Feet on Amazon, and star 68 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: of another hit series, Blody Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan 69 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: on iHeart. But first to Michael Ruiz, reporter with Fox 70 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: News Digital who's been on this case from the very beginning. Michael, 71 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Tell me the discovery. 72 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: Two things right now. One, the MOAP police continue, even 73 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:16,799 Speaker 1: now after we know Brian Laundry murdered Gabby, are still 74 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: claiming they were right, they got it right, that Gabby 75 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: was the aggressor. They're still saying that. But before I 76 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: get to them and their big self justification of their 77 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: crap report and what they're saying about Gabby even now, 78 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 1: let me talk about this note but who fat We're 79 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: find why hit me? Michael? And this notebook be found 80 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: on October twentieth, right near Brian Laundry's body, in the 81 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 1: same area where his parents had been telling police to 82 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: search for weeks. And if you remember, the police had 83 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: been going out into that swamp and there was a 84 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: big debate over whether he was there or he had 85 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: run away up to the Appolician trail or anywhere else. 86 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 1: And he turned out he was there the whole time. 87 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: Turned out he was most likely dead the whole time. 88 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 1: And when the floodwaters went down, they found a bag, 89 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: they found some other belongings, and they found Brian's remains. 90 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 1: So that bag, Michael Ruiz, was a dry bag. And 91 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: as I recall, I don't believe the notebook was in 92 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: the dry bag, which leads me to imagine Brian Laundry 93 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: was out there, self absorbed, writing his self absorbed musings 94 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: in a notebook, and he writes a so called confession. Boy, 95 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: I'd love to see what he wrote and then killed himself. 96 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: Where that leads me is that I think he wrote 97 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 1: his thoughts and then killed himself, and that's why the 98 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: notebook didn't make it into the dry bag, which leads 99 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: me to a whole forensic mess as to how you 100 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 1: actually rehabilitate this notebook, the sopping wet notebook that has 101 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 1: been underwater at Carlton Reserve for the rainy season. How 102 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: you do that so you can read it? And I'll 103 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: circle back to just Scott Morgan on that again. Michael Ruise, 104 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: it was found in October. We're just hearing about it. Now. 105 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: Tell me more about how it was found, where it 106 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: was found, and what happened then. So right inside the 107 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: entrance to this trail, there was a little clearing on 108 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: the left hand side, and the parents had been telling 109 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: the FBI and police to search that area for weeks, 110 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: and they went on this morning of October twentieth with 111 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: one detective from Northport Police and one FBI agent and 112 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: the parents and they were essentially zig zagging through the area, 113 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: just looking around at places they thought they might find 114 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: Brian and the parents came across the dry bag and 115 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: split up from the law enforcement officers, and when they 116 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: met up a few minutes later, the Northport detective told 117 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: the parents, we think we found something. It's human remains, 118 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: And at that time they hadn't positively ideated as Brian. 119 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: But the next day they came out and said, with 120 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: Dentil records, this is Brian Laundry. Do we know if 121 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: they ever got DNA identifying him, Michael Rowis. I believe 122 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: that later they did identify him with DNA, but at 123 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: that time it was Dentil records with the first first 124 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: means used on the twenty first. The next day, take 125 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut four to four our friend 126 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: Evan exel Bake Fox thirteen. And then on October twentieth, 127 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: he was found in the Carlton Reserve, which is a 128 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: big giant swamp twenty five thousand acres here in Tampa 129 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: Bay in Sarasota County. He was found October twentieth. They 130 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: found him with a notebook. They found him with a revolver, 131 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 1: and in that notebook it is said by the FBI 132 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: that he admitted and took responsibility for the death of 133 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: his former girlfriend and fiance. And then a month after 134 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 1: he was found with the notebook. They also revealed that 135 00:08:55,760 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: he was found with a revolver, and they said, after 136 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: a lengthy investigation into his death, they found that he 137 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:07,319 Speaker 1: had shot himself. So that was the final piece there. 138 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: The notebook and then the revolver had showed the cause 139 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: of death. And over the course of this the FBI 140 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:15,439 Speaker 1: has said and other law enforcement has told us that 141 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: there was no one else they suspected in this death 142 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: of Gabby Petito beyond Brian Laundry. And today the FBI 143 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:26,559 Speaker 1: confirmed that all investigative leads led to no one but 144 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: Brian Laundry. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace straight out to 145 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: you Justice Got Morgan, Professor Forensics at jacksonvill State University. 146 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: Many people have wondered why we are just hearing about 147 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: the notebook and the electric confession in the notebook. Now, 148 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: how long would it take to rehabilitate a sopping wet notebook. 149 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:08,719 Speaker 1: Let's just say, yeah, where the musings were written in 150 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: ink and it it actually been submerged during the Culture 151 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: Reserve rainy season. Yeah, it would be a protracted period 152 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,319 Speaker 1: of time. Nancy, The key to it is that you 153 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 1: know paper just like you know human bodies and anything 154 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: else out in nature is actually made from trees. Okay, 155 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 1: so it's it's an organic substance. And what that means 156 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: is the more you have it around water, the relative humidity, 157 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: it begins to break down. So what they have to 158 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: do the scientist and I would assume if they took 159 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: this back to the question document section at the FBI lab, 160 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: you mean in quantico, in quantico, and they would have 161 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: to freeze that notebook in order to stop what's referred 162 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: to as as as the decomposition of the paper. Because 163 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 1: keep in mind, it's it's pulling apart at a molecular level. 164 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: So you have to out that first, think about wet 165 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: toilet paper. Oh exactly, that's what's happening. Go ahead, and 166 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: it's a horribly hostile environment where this thing was found. 167 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: And one of the keys here is Nancy, I think, 168 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: is this that you've hit upon this point of was 169 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 1: the bag? Was it in the bag or outside of 170 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: the bag? If it's outside of the bag, that means 171 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,559 Speaker 1: it's going to be chronically exposed to water over a 172 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: protracted period of time. And so this kind of you know, 173 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: spiraling off into breakdown has got to be stopped before 174 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,199 Speaker 1: they can ever touch at Nancy before they can ever 175 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: put any kind of alternative light like infrared. So it's 176 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,959 Speaker 1: my understanding, and this is a lay person's understanding of it. 177 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: They take the pages and they try their best to 178 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 1: lay them out flat, if that's possible. Again, think wet 179 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: toilet paper is how I would describe it to a jury. 180 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:59,319 Speaker 1: And then let them dry, either through a laser light 181 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: or infra light, let them dry out. How does that 182 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: process work? Well, what you would have to do? Nanswer's 183 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: They keep using the term notebook. We really don't know 184 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: what type of notebook, if it's spiral bound, or if 185 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: it has like a standard sewn in spine. Hey, mo, yeah, 186 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: let me here that they do have a photograph of 187 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,079 Speaker 1: the book, the notebook that he had purportedly had in 188 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: one of our news articles. And in addition to which 189 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,719 Speaker 1: it appears they're using indelible pen ink in order to 190 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,319 Speaker 1: write in the notebook. So well that mays answer the 191 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: question of why we can see it later? Hey, what 192 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: does the notebook look like? Del Carson is in my mind, 193 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: I imagine one of those remember those notebooks that were 194 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: sewn into the spine and they're black and white squiggly 195 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: on the front. We had almost like a drama decision. Yes, 196 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: this is what I had in my head. This is 197 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: a spiral notebook and it's green in color. Probably it's 198 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: about ten inches by six inches, and it's littered on 199 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:02,719 Speaker 1: the top with these indelible pens, sort of like a 200 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 1: magic marker that you would use to write in. It's 201 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 1: not up here, is that one of the photos? Michael 202 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: Ruise joining us from Fox News Digital. Remember that Gabby 203 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: was posting her travel her vlog, a video blog, which 204 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,199 Speaker 1: is really interesting. I watched every bit of that. I 205 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: could see she's really good at it. By the way, 206 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: she would have made a great travel editor. But there 207 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 1: were a lot of photos as well, and very often 208 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: he would see photos of Brian Laundry, lounging, reading and 209 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: writing in his notebook. I wonder if that was the notebook, 210 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,079 Speaker 1: Michael Ruise, I wonder you I don't know. Sure, that's 211 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,959 Speaker 1: a good question, and I guess you know. We're asking 212 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: the FBI for more information they've been reluctant to He's 213 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: pulling out the notebook. I see it. It's Brian Laundry. 214 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: It looks like a big light blue blanket has been 215 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 1: laid out on their camping trip and he has that Yes, yes, 216 00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: I see, we're talking about Dell Carson. It's kind of 217 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: a greenish spiral note. But is it spiral jack And 218 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 1: there's yeah, yeah, yes, and there's like a silver I 219 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: guess a tree pattern on the top. And they're all 220 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: his sharpies laid out where he's writing his innermost thoughts 221 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: and feelings. I guess I bet that's it. Okay, back 222 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: to you, Joe Scott, Yeah, you know. It's when you 223 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: begin to think about this. As I stated, they have 224 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: to freeze this thing, get it away from any further 225 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: exposure to humidity at all. Once that is accomplished and 226 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: it begins to kind of dry on itself, we actually 227 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: have would refer to as evidence dryers at labs Nancy, 228 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: where we can hang clothes and that sort of thing up. 229 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: You have to completely suck all of humidity out of 230 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: the air. Now, this thing is going to be so fragile. 231 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: It's almost like doing surgery if you. If folks have 232 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: never seen a question document lab, they go into this 233 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: thing wearing gloves, masks, this sort of thing, and my 234 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: suspicion is they would have literally dissected out each page 235 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: with a scalpel, getting it as close to that spin. 236 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: Slow down, slow down, I'm drinking from the fire hydra here. 237 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: Dissect each page with a scalpel. Take it apart with 238 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: a scalpel, which should make then your fingers. Yeah, very 239 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: much so. Because they're all by now, they're probably dry together. 240 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: I don't know that, but they could be you know, 241 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: a water log. Okay, go ahead. Yeah, And then you 242 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: know you had mentioned how they were trying to dry 243 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: each page independently, So that's the only way that this 244 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: can actually be accomplished. Oh my goodness, can you imagine 245 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: them trying to they'd probably the spiral, cut the spiral out, 246 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: because there's no way you could pull that page off 247 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: the spiral. Again, wet toilet paper, you can't pull it 248 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: off the spiral. Yeah, And if it is spiral, they 249 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: could go in with a pair of wire snips and 250 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: cut it along the long axis of the spiral and 251 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: then just kind of delicately pull it out. It's a 252 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: painstaking process. Remember how much is riding on this nancy. Anything, 253 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: anything that is disrupted can completely skew the narrative here. 254 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: Like I mean, even if there were three words I 255 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: killed Gabby. I mean, if you lost those three words, 256 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: you would no longer have a confession. Not that I 257 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: think that's what it is. And I'll tell you why. Hey, 258 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: hold of thought, Joe Scott, Dctor, Bethany Marshall. I can't 259 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: believe you've held back this long. You know. The other 260 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: day I tried to read Lousey's notebook, I mean her diary, 261 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: which isn't a notebook. First of all, she writes in 262 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: such tiny letters. Of course, looking for anything about drugs, alcohol, 263 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: wild behavior, I found nothing like that. She's talking about 264 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: something about Sunday School, she's talking about the Scout trip, 265 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: she's talking about skincare. I'm like, oh, dear lord, he's tiny. 266 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: Hare Okay, nothing about murdering Maham. But it was so 267 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: tiny I could hardly read it. And she writes even 268 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: when she writes a little note, it looks like calligraphy. 269 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: She's just well, she's perfect in every way. That's just 270 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: all I can say. Practically perfect in every way. But 271 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about Brian Laundry. You know, at his age, 272 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: my dad had already let's see Brian Laundry twenty three. 273 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: My dad had already had I think was still fighting 274 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: in the World War, was about to head back, meet 275 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: my mom, get married, have three children, and start trying 276 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: to go to school at night to get his accounting degree. 277 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: And here's Brian Laundry kicked back. Nothing wrong with that, 278 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: musing his music. It sounds like a fifteen year old boy. Yeah, 279 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: And how old is Lucy now, my angel? Your angels? 280 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 1: Let's see Lynch and John David are both fourteen, so 281 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: it is developmentally appropriate for her to be writing in 282 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:54,719 Speaker 1: a journal. And John David, my son, wouldn't journal if 283 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 1: it hit him over the head, He'd go, what if 284 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: it bit him in the neck? It was an he 285 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 1: wouldn't write in a journal. You know, forget it. It 286 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: is developmentally appropriate for a young woman to be not 287 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 1: to be sexist, but women tend to do it more 288 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 1: than men or girls do, to be writing in a 289 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 1: journal because she's trying to consolidate a sense of self. 290 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: She's putting the words out there, she's reading them, she's 291 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 1: reabsorbing them, and she's learning who she is by documenting 292 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: her life. And this is not the same as Brian Laundry. 293 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: How old was he twenty three? Going on twenty four. 294 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: I'm a bassony. I mean, you're using all these these terms, 295 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 1: but in my mind, what is he doing with his 296 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: rear end on a blue blanket. He needs to be 297 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,400 Speaker 1: pitching the tent and getting firew for Pete's sake. He's 298 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: absorbed with himself. That's what he is. He's very self absorbed, 299 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 1: self preoccupied. You know, it's a little bit like O. J. 300 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 1: Simpson writing, if I did it, I cannot believe you 301 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 1: just said the life Those are in my handwritten knows 302 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: this might as well be OJ says this a notebook 303 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: scribbling at the defense table, self absorbed sidlings of a killer. 304 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:11,400 Speaker 1: Now you got Mike exactly. And you know the other 305 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: thing is she, in a sense is grabbing the spotlight. 306 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 1: Gabby Petito is because she's doing this blog and she's 307 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 1: getting all these followers and people are interested in her. 308 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 1: And sometimes I see in session, like when I see 309 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 1: couples and there's an abusive dynamic and the victim is 310 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: describing quite eloquently their experience. The perpetrator will grab a 311 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 1: note or can start writing down their thoughts furiously scribbling. 312 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: This is what I think that they want to get 313 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: it out. They want to defend themselves. They want to 314 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: be as important or as eloquipped as the victim is 315 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 1: in describing their experience. So it almost seems not only 316 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: is he self absorbed, but he's sort of emulating her, 317 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: trying to get his point out, trying to be the 318 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: important one. And you know what, sadly, in death, that's 319 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: what's happened, because he's the one we're talking about. He 320 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 1: went out with this and grand gesture, and that's what 321 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: happens with really self absorbed people. You know how you 322 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: say that, you hear the term, oh, he took all 323 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: the oxygen in the room. In a sense, he's taking 324 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: our oxygen on the show, right, I don't even everyone 325 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: we're talking about what does that mean? Yeah? Okay, so 326 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: if I have someone come into my office and describe 327 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: somebody's toxic or disturbed, that's really kind of torturing them. 328 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: They'll say, do you know what, doctor Bethany, He's like, 329 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: he's a kind of person that sucks all the oxygen 330 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: out of the room and shorthand that means he takes 331 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 1: all the attention, grabs all the attention. It's all about him. 332 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: I think that's what he did. And we'll talk about 333 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 1: this later in the show. I'm sure when the Moab 334 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: police officers pulled him over, he sucked all the oxygen 335 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: out of the situation. It was all about him. He 336 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: got to go to the hotel, he got to take 337 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: the shower. You know, he got the cushy, He got 338 00:20:51,160 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: the cushy assignment time stories with Nancy Grace. There would 339 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 1: be no way in h e double l Dell Carson 340 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: that my husband, David Lynch, who is a saint. There's 341 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: no way he would have stayed in the hotel and 342 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 1: I sleep in the car. I wouldn't ask him to switch, 343 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: no way, but there's no way that he would do that. 344 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: He would sleep on the pavement before he would have 345 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: me or the twins sleep in the car and him 346 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: be slung up in a king size bed with a shower. 347 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,880 Speaker 1: That wouldn't happen. That's what gentlemen do. They take care 348 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 1: of their women. They don't injure them. I'm just you know, 349 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 1: it's bringing it all back, Michael Ruise, what happened to 350 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: Gabby and I haven't even touched on the Moap police 351 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 1: still going down with his ship claiming Ab was the 352 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: aggressor here, but Michael, I want to bring you back 353 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: to Oh my goodness for running out of time. I 354 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: want to bring you back to the notebook. So we 355 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 1: got the notebook, and what if anything do we learn? 356 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 1: And do you think Michael will ever actually see what 357 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 1: he wrote in the notebook? I hope so, and we've 358 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: asked to see it. And you know that's kind of 359 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: on the FBI, but I don't I don't really know 360 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: why they wouldn't release it at some point down the line. 361 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 1: And something you said at the beginning, Michael, release I 362 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 1: want to follow up the fact that he's writing this 363 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 1: confession of sorts as to what he did. But no, no, 364 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 1: don't get sucked in his life. Take a listen to 365 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: our cut four nineteen News Nation. Those final text messages. 366 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,919 Speaker 1: That was something new, at least coming from the FBI. 367 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: You'll remember, when all of this started, we heard from 368 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: Gabby's mom and she said that something was very strange 369 00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: about the final text messages from g to her mom. 370 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: She called her Grandpa Stan. She would have never done that. 371 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 1: It didn't make much sense at all. Well, now the 372 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: FBI today confirming in this report that the final text 373 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 1: messages sent by Gabby Petito's phone were actually sent by 374 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: Brian Laundry after he killed Gabby Petito. Get it, he's 375 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: still lying after her murder, trying to cover up prime murder. 376 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 1: Let's clarify that with our cut four one five. This 377 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 1: is Evan axel Bang, our friend at Fox thirteen. Gabby 378 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: Petito's body was found in the Grand Titan September nineteenth. 379 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 1: Brian Laundry's body was found a month later in a 380 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,439 Speaker 1: swamp near Northport, and with his remains, the FBI now 381 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 1: says they found a revolver he apparently used to kill 382 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: himself and a notebook where the FBI says he'd taken 383 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 1: responsibility for killing Gabby. The FBI released an executive summary 384 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: like explainer of the evidence they've gathered since the investigation 385 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 1: into her disappearance again in September twelfth. It says the 386 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: investigation did not identify any other individuals other than Brian 387 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 1: Laundry directly involved in the tragic death of Gabby Petito. 388 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,360 Speaker 1: They said they found text messages between their phones sent 389 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: after they believe she was strangled that appeared to be 390 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,439 Speaker 1: Brian trying to make it look like Gabby was still alive. 391 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: He'd returned to his family's Northport home in her then, 392 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,239 Speaker 1: but without her. The FBI did not say if they 393 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: know why Laundry killed her. Actually, under the law, the 394 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: state doesn't have to prove motive. We're not responsible for 395 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 1: going in the mind of a killer and trying to 396 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 1: make sense of why he would do such a thing 397 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: to a defenseless woman out and dispersed camping. Dispersed camping 398 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: being camping out where there's not a water or a pump, 399 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: so there's no hookup there, there's no lights, there's not 400 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: a bathroom or nothing like that. You're off the grid. 401 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: Would take her out there and murder her and bludge 402 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 1: in her. But there's the more to his devious mind. 403 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,399 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut four two three our 404 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: friend Evan Axel Bank at Fox thirteen between August thirtieth 405 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: in September. First, they found that he'd use Gabby's credit 406 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: card or her debit card during his drive back from 407 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: Wyoming to Florida. They then found text messages where it 408 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: appeared that he was posing as Gabby Petito, trying to 409 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: make it look to law enforcement like she was still alive. 410 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 1: So basically they found both of their phones and then 411 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,199 Speaker 1: realized that he was simply using her phone to make 412 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 1: it look like she was still the one sending text 413 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: messages back and forth, so not only using her phone 414 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: but also her credit card to make everybody think that 415 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: Gabby is still alive. And then in the better m 416 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 1: Dancy did you jump in? Can I jump in on 417 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: this place? Is the credit card? Once? Law enforcement is 418 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 1: saying he's trying to cover up that he killed her, 419 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 1: and probably he us trying to cover it up at 420 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 1: the same time, he thought he owned her and possessed her. 421 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,400 Speaker 1: Therefore her credit card is his credit card. Sometimes thinks 422 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: are more basic than we think. And she's gone, there's 423 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 1: probably an extra couple hundred dollars in the bank account, 424 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: and he just thinks that those dollars belong to him. 425 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: I mean, her life slonged to him in his mind. 426 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: So I think it's symbolic of how he disposed of 427 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: her and used her life, like he used the credit 428 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 1: card and used her bank account. Well, there's actually a 429 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: little more to that, because the FBI or Law Enforcement 430 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: Guild of arrested Laundry immediately after determining that, in fact, 431 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: he was using her credit card without authorization. And he 432 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 1: attempted to cover up her murder. And it's surprising to 433 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: me that they didn't arrest him down there, put him 434 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 1: in cuss Did he have hearings in order to solve 435 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,880 Speaker 1: this fully? You know what I'm thinking about. This comes 436 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: back to mind, and just bear with me one more minute. 437 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: Michael aways, speaking of him using her credit card. I 438 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: remember a case I had. It was a rape case, 439 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: a very brutal and violent rape, and then after the rape, 440 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 1: the defendant spit on the victim. Before you get angry 441 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: like I did, just know that we collected the spit 442 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: and got a positive DNA match back to the defendant 443 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 1: that said it was just like adding insult to injury. 444 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: After he had throttled her dead, he then crosses the 445 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: country using her cell phone and using her credit card, 446 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 1: just he had already murdered her. I don't know if 447 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: he raped her first, but he did murder her and 448 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 1: then used her van, her money, her cell phone all 449 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: the way back. So that brings that to mine. Okay, 450 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: this is what we know. We're still waiting for the 451 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: FBI to release the notebook, the exact confession, if they ever. 452 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 1: Michael Ruise, I also want to talk about another disturbing 453 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: aspect of this entire, entire scenario, that now the Moab police, 454 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 1: while they had Brian Laundry in their grasp, they let 455 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: him slip through their fingers, and still to this day 456 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:24,399 Speaker 1: insist that Gabby Petito, this waif weighs about one hundred 457 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,919 Speaker 1: and five pounds versus Brian Laundry approaching two hundred pounds, 458 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,120 Speaker 1: she was the aggressor. Did they miss every classic symptom 459 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: of battering, that she was abused, The denial, the hysterical crying, 460 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: They desire not to be separated, taking the blame herself, 461 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:53,239 Speaker 1: explaining away her own injuries, ignoring the nine one one 462 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: call that had just happened. For a witness outside, I 463 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 1: believe the Moonflower co Op Cafe saw Brian Laundry hitting 464 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: her in the face on the street in broad delight, 465 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: and still, even with that knowledge, called her the aggressor. Okay, 466 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 1: you know what I want you to take a listen to. 467 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: It's very very disturbing to me. It's our cup. Four 468 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: twenty eight is Nate Carlisle at Fox thirteen. Here on 469 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: what's labeled page two, the captain takes a moment to 470 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: ponder would Gabby be alive today if this case was 471 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 1: handled differently, that is an impossible question to answer. For 472 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: his part, Pratt told the captain who worried taking Potito 473 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: to jail would invold in laundry. So if he's going 474 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 1: to go bail her out, is he not going to 475 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: have more control over her? Now? Pratt's quoted as saying 476 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: mo absent, it would adopt the recommendations to improve training 477 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: and added domestic violence specialist to oversee incidents investigated by 478 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: its officers. So they're still sticking with They're going now 479 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: with a ship. They refused to admit, they screwed up, 480 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: they had laundry, They did nothing, and they let him 481 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 1: go and now she's dead. Jump in Dell. And when 482 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: I used to teach domestic violence at police academies in Florida, 483 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 1: one of the things that's mandated, certainly in Florida and 484 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: is now mandated everywhere is to arrest one of the parties. 485 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: And there's even legislation that prohibits individuals from suing the 486 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: police if they arrest the wrong person. So back at 487 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: that time that this happened, they should have arrested either 488 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: one or both of these individuals. And that would have 489 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: resolved the problem at least for the moment, and then 490 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: you can investigate further to find out, because she's now 491 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: removed from that individual, whether or not she's being in 492 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: an abuse of a relationship that might concern her welfare. 493 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Michael Ruis, tell me about 494 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: the Moa Police and the investigation by the neighboring county. 495 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: I believe it was Price County. Yeah, it was Price 496 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 1: police who did the investigation. The Moab Police department is 497 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: very small, and then the chief takeaways from the investigation 498 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: into their handling of the traffic stop or the domestic 499 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: violence stop was that these officers involved need more training 500 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: and they should go back on probation. And you know, 501 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 1: if a small department, they're probably not as trained as 502 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: a lot of the big city departments were used to 503 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: dealing with. So they're they're saying, kind site is twenty twenty. 504 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: We had no idea that Brian was a killer, and 505 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: that's that's the point that they're sticking to. Well, I 506 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: agree with that. I agree with them on that, But 507 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: in this day and age, I mean, women are beaten 508 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: all across the world. It doesn't matter if you're in 509 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 1: a small town or a big city like New York City, 510 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if you dropped out of school in 511 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: the sixth grade, or if you've got your phud. It 512 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: doesn't matter if you make two hundred thousand dollars a 513 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: year or you make thirty thousand dollars a year, or 514 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: if you have one child, no children, or six children. 515 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. Women are abused, beaten, senseless across the board. 516 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: None of that socioeconomic distinctions, none of them matter period. 517 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 1: That has been proven statistically. So the fact that Mohai 518 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 1: Police is a small jurisdiction, does that mean the women 519 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: there aren't getting beaten behind closed doors? No, it does not. 520 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: And right there on the main street, Michael Ruis, we 521 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: have a witness calling nine one one that Gabby is 522 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 1: getting beaten basically on main street in broad daylight. What 523 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 1: they couldn't check that out and figure out this is Gabby. 524 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: So I spoke with quite a few experts on the 525 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: legal side and in the law enforcement side, and you know, 526 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: they found the report a little bit lacking. They thought 527 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,959 Speaker 1: the findings might not have been as as severe as 528 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: as they could be. Okay, let's let's talk about what 529 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: you just said, Michael Ruise? Okay, okay, let me get 530 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: to my notes. Um, I never saw any photos that 531 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 1: they took of Gabby's injury to her face. They mentioned 532 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 1: it in their body cam, but I didn't see any video, 533 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 1: did you. So they talk about him, yeah, you're right, 534 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: they talk about him in the body cam, but there's 535 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 1: no documentation of them. So they take pictures of Brian 536 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: Laundry and his injury, but not Gabby is yes? No, right? Okay. 537 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: Did they contact the nine one one caller who reported 538 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: the Brian Laundry attack on Gabby? Did they call him? 539 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 1: Michael Ruise? So we found out from this report they went, 540 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: they circled back with one witness, but that witness was 541 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 1: not the nine one one caller, so that would be 542 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 1: a no. They did not contact the nine one one caller, 543 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: not the one who said he saw I think the 544 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: quote was I saw the gentleman slapping the lady, is 545 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,720 Speaker 1: what the nine one one caller said. Did they mention 546 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: Gabby's injuries in their written report? The best of my memory, 547 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,719 Speaker 1: I didn't see anything about it. Is no, they did not. 548 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: Did they understand state law requirements for a claim of 549 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:30,479 Speaker 1: domestic assault Michael Ruis would I would think so, because 550 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,359 Speaker 1: Officer Pratt even said so in his own body cam 551 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 1: He said, you know, the reason this law is on 552 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: the books that we have to arrest one is because 553 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,800 Speaker 1: down the line someone's going to get killed. The domestic 554 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 1: violence domestic assault law in that jurisdiction, it seems like 555 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 1: they had skimmed it but didn't really know what they 556 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: were doing. In fact, in the final findings, they stay 557 00:34:55,120 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 1: the officers misunderstood state law requirements for domestic assault. Did 558 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: they ever consider or write in their report that Brian 559 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: Laundry could be considered the potential suspect or was it 560 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 1: always Gabby and the initial police report it was Gabby? 561 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: In the review from Price, the captain who wrote that 562 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 1: report said that there was evidence that Gabby was a 563 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,880 Speaker 1: long term victim of domestic abuse. So in the officers 564 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 1: initial report, at the moment they could have stopped Brian 565 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 1: Laundry and maybe prevented Gabby's murder, they never considered Brian 566 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 1: Laundry as a potential suspect. Is that correct? From the 567 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,280 Speaker 1: initial reports? That's how it seems. Did they ever connect 568 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: either of them with mental health caregivers? Such as even 569 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,359 Speaker 1: a volunteer like me at the Battered Women's Center. It's 570 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 1: a toll free number. I manned the hot line for 571 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:59,839 Speaker 1: nine years. Did they ever do that, Michael Ruise? They did. 572 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 1: They did bring Brian to a hotel through a charity 573 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 1: for domestic victims, that they checked them into the hotel 574 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 1: through that charity. But in the report from Price, we 575 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: see that they didn't connect them with professionals. They didn't 576 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,479 Speaker 1: give them documentation. So the answer would be no, would 577 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: it not? I guess not. Doctor Bethany Marshall, what are 578 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: the classic symptoms of a domestic violence victim? And don't 579 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,879 Speaker 1: get me wrong, I know that there are some men 580 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 1: that are battered and amused, but they are about one 581 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:37,399 Speaker 1: one percent of the entire partner battering universe. So let's 582 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 1: just get real. Women are the victims. What are the 583 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 1: symptoms that Gabby Petito displayed, Doctor Bethany, Well, everything she displayed, 584 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,239 Speaker 1: I mean protecting the abuser, minimizing the harm done to 585 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 1: her self, flame not tailor telling a cohesive history about 586 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 1: what had been done to her. The fact is that 587 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:01,360 Speaker 1: she owns her part in the thing. Who's been the conflict? 588 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,840 Speaker 1: She says she's punched him in the arm, but she 589 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 1: minimizes that she punched him in the arm because she 590 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 1: was so frustrated and he was driving erratically. He was 591 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 1: taking her van and her cell phone exactly, and that 592 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 1: you you put it more beautifully that I was trying 593 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: to collect my thoughts. Fund I know he had taken 594 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,719 Speaker 1: the van. I know he had taken the cell phone. Well, 595 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,759 Speaker 1: that was That would be the final sign nilenial that 596 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:31,959 Speaker 1: she is a domestic violence victim. Her injuries, the fact 597 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 1: that she tried to minimize, as you said, doctor Bethany, 598 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,880 Speaker 1: they damage to her. I mean, it goes on and 599 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,920 Speaker 1: on and on, the classic signs that she is a 600 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 1: domestic violence victim. Just kinda heard you jumping in. What 601 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: were you going to say? Yeah? I think one of 602 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 1: the biggest takeaways for me, Nancy goes back to forensics 603 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 1: and what is doctor Blue going to release from the 604 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 1: corner's office up there, Because this is why if she 605 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:05,040 Speaker 1: got ongoing abuse, Nancy, we will potentially potentially be able 606 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,880 Speaker 1: to identify that at autopsy. It's just like we do 607 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 1: with child abuse victims, Nancy. We look at bruises, we 608 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 1: look at injuries, and we can date those we can 609 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 1: get an idea how long has this been going on. 610 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 1: Let me tell you something. A grown man does not 611 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 1: just stand forth in the middle of a stream and 612 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: spontaneously start beating a young woman who weighed what less 613 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: than one hundred pounds in public view. This is not 614 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: the first time they've been down this road. I submit 615 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 1: to you that he has beaten her for a period 616 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: of time. He feels comfortable with this, so at autopsy, 617 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,839 Speaker 1: one of the things that we can do is age injuries. 618 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,320 Speaker 1: Who else was aware of this? Who else knew that 619 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,279 Speaker 1: this was going on? And again they're living under the 620 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 1: laundry's roof. Is this something that they had had a 621 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,640 Speaker 1: history of that the family hadn't said anything about in 622 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 1: the past. I think that's a big I mean, saying 623 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 1: would it have stopped Gabby's murder is like reading the tiles. 624 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:58,759 Speaker 1: But I know this, that would have been a much 625 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:03,359 Speaker 1: better chance that she survived if she had gotten batter 626 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:08,440 Speaker 1: women's counseling, even over the phone with a volunteer at 627 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:13,880 Speaker 1: the shelter, even that could have saved her life. But 628 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,719 Speaker 1: the officers, to make themselves feel better, I guess, keeps saying, well, 629 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 1: you know, we don't think it would have made a difference. 630 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,520 Speaker 1: Really well, you'll never know because you screwed it up. 631 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cup four to seven night. 632 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:29,440 Speaker 1: Carlisle thoughts thirteen. If I had any discretion in this, 633 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,200 Speaker 1: I would separate you guys from the day and just 634 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,480 Speaker 1: give you warnings to stop at each other. But I 635 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: lawfully don't have the discretion here yet. Veteran Moab police 636 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 1: officer Eric Pratt and the new officer he was training, 637 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:45,000 Speaker 1: Daniel Robbins, did let Gabby Petito and Brian Laundry go. 638 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,400 Speaker 1: The report by a price Utah police captain says that 639 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,160 Speaker 1: by law, Petito should have been cited or arrested once 640 00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:56,239 Speaker 1: officers determined she was the aggressor. The captain sustained or 641 00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 1: confirmed multiple complaints where Pratt and Robbins failed to foll 642 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,800 Speaker 1: oh the law and Moab's own policies, including failing to 643 00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:08,759 Speaker 1: obtain witness statements and properly documenting the roadside investigation. So 644 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,840 Speaker 1: give me your finals go ahead deal. There's a fifty 645 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: percent reduction and homicides in domestic violence cases if one 646 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:19,399 Speaker 1: of the parties is arrested. That's the statistic that led 647 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,160 Speaker 1: to all this legislation, Bethany and I would say, if 648 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,800 Speaker 1: one of the classic signs of abuse is leaving the 649 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:29,120 Speaker 1: woman alone in a deserted place without resources, then all 650 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,880 Speaker 1: three men abused her. Jes Scott, I think for me, 651 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 1: Nancy is this idea that there is ongoing abuse with her, 652 00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:38,719 Speaker 1: and I think that other people had a full and 653 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,760 Speaker 1: complete awareness of this in their background, and it's a tragedy. 654 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:45,920 Speaker 1: It wasn't addressed earlier and special guests Michael Ruis, Fox 655 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,200 Speaker 1: News Digital, well, we're just going to be waiting here 656 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 1: to see what we can get from the FBI on 657 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:54,880 Speaker 1: that notebook and following this case. Not over yet. No, 658 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:59,239 Speaker 1: it ain't over yet, Michael Ruis. True words were never 659 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:03,840 Speaker 1: spoken at this point. No charges planned against the Laundry family. 660 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,920 Speaker 1: We waked as justice some of the holes Nancy Grace 661 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:09,680 Speaker 1: crime story, signing off, Goodbye friend,