WEBVTT - Mark Carney 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:06.240 One of the most admired, respected, and busiest global leaders 0:00:06.280 --> 0:00:09.079 in the world is Mark Carney. He served for a 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:11.119 number of years as the Governor of the Bank of 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:14.080 Canada for a number of additional years as the Governor 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:16.680 of the Bank of England. He currently serves as a 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:20.680 Special UN Envoy for Climate Action Finance, and he also 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:24.200 chairs Brookfield Asset Management. I had a chance to sit 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:26.800 down with Mark recently to talk about how he does 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:30.080 all these things so well, Mark has been the Bank 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:35.240 of Canada governor, been the governor of the Bank of England. 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:38.839 Has anybody ever been the governor of two different central 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:40.479 banks in two different countries. 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:44.000 No, I don't think so. 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:46.599 And so in addition to that, in addition to that, 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:53.479 you are also the chairman of Brookfield Asset Management, and 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:59.040 you are the new chairman of Bloomberg. So you obviously 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:05.480 like b Bank of Canada, Bank of England, Bloomberg and Brookfield. 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:09.200 But there's a story in the latest edition of a 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:11.720 Canadian newspaper like two days ago that's saying that you 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:15.440 might also be the next Prime Minister of Canada. 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:19.920 So any interest in that in the story, not in 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:23.399 the story per se. The you know, It's interesting you 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:26.640 you say the same thing over and over, but it 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:30.039 gets heard differently in different contexts. And I think that 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:34.640 story is probably more indication of the current environment in Canada. 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:37.000 In other words, you wouldn't be uninterested in that. 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:40.920 I'm interested that we have an effective prime minister in Kenada. Okay, 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:44.240 so Prime Minister Trudeau, and you know him. I know 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:46.280 him well, yes, and he's done very so. 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:50.720 But we'll take that as maybe all right, so I 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:54.520 won't pursue that anymore. All right, let me ask you, 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:57.920 as the Bank of England governor and as the Bank 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:01.360 of Canada governor, do you think the other the central 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:07.160 banks recently figured out that inflation was more serious than 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:09.840 it was too late? Or do you think they recognized 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:11.280 early when it was going to be serious they just 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:12.280 didn't do enough about it. 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:13.760 No. 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:18.680 I think in hindsight they realized it too late. They 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:22.639 were operating under the old paradigm, if you will. It 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:25.880 was an issue of not enough demand, and that is 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:28.600 something that works well generally until you have a bunch 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:31.400 of supply shocks. And we had a COVID supply shock, 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:34.240 we had an energy supply shock. We had supply shoks 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:37.960 with supply chains, geopolitics, all of which meant that there 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:41.560 was more than transitory inflation, and it took a while 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:45.080 for some of the central banks to fully recognize that 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:46.040 and start to respond. 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:48.239 Now that they have did recognize it, do you think 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:50.880 they've done enough? And do you see any more rate 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:53.440 increases likely to come about? There are many people in 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:55.519 the market who think that maybe another rate increase in 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:56.640 the United States is likely. 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:57.919 What do you think about that? 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:00.480 Yeah, well, first first part of the question, and I 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:03.440 think that once they started to move, and particularly when 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:06.720 the FED started to move, it did respond in a 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:11.359 very effective manner. It's consistently surprised people with it how 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:14.160 resolute it was and what it was prepared to do. 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:18.440 It recognized that the bigger risk was that inflation stayed 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:23.480 high or worsened, and it has put us in a position, 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:27.160 put the US in a position where inflation is increasingly 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.360 under control, not totally under control. And that gets to 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:34.160 the second part of your question, which is, I know, 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:35.680 if I have to choose a camp, I be in 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:38.520 the camp of I expect that there will be a 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:43.600 bit more tightening by the Fed, so probably an additional 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:45.400 rate increase this year, But. 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:47.080 What's as important. 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:50.960 In fact, what's more important is the path of policy 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:54.080 over the course of the next twelve to eighteen months. 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:57.560 And I think it's finally beginning to be recognized. It's 0:03:57.560 --> 0:03:59.440 been a painful few weeks for some of the market 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:02.520 in getting recognition that it's not just about where the 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:04.440 rate is today, it's not just about the peak, but 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:07.920 it's the path, and the path of rates is very 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:10.400 much and I've been in this view for a while, 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:16.120 higher for longer, in order to ensure that policy is 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:19.480 adequately tight to bring inflation fully back to that two percent. 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:22.080 When I was in the White House as a young man, 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:26.320 we were running for reelection under Jimmy Carter, and the 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:29.000 head of the inflation Effort fighting inflation effort was a 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:32.680 man named Fred Kahn, former Cornell professor, and he went 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:34.960 out into the White House briefing room one day and said, 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:37.279 I think we're going to have a recession. Well, Carter 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:41.320 hauled him into the oval. Officer said Fred, I'm running 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:44.719 for reelection. Do not use the R word. It scares people. 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:46.760 And fred Kahn said, well, what am I supposed to do? 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:48.680 I have to be honest, be honest, but don't use 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:51.160 the R word. So the next time Fred Kahn went 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:53.000 out and he said, I think we're heading into a banana. 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:54.960 He used the word banana. 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:57.000 As a substitute of recession for figuring reporters wouldn't put 0:04:57.040 --> 0:04:59.680 that in the headline. So are we heading into a banana? 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.159 Do you think or you think we're not going into 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:03.680 a banana? 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:04.680 Well, I think the. 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:10.039 Likelihood of banana has gone down. Actually, to be clear, 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:13.720 the FED has done quite a masterful job. Other things 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:17.360 have helped. But if you look at and you asked 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:20.480 me a moment ago rightly about unemployment and getting back 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:23.400 to the two percent, what's happened in the US, almost 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:26.359 uniquely in the US is there hasn't been a sharp 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:30.280 rise in unemployment. There's been a fall in vacancies, something 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:32.800 that hasn't happened in the past. But of course this 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:36.240 cycle is quite different than any previous cycles. So the 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:39.839 Fed's been able to thus far ease some of the 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:42.880 pressure in the labor market by reducing vacancies as opposed 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:47.560 to increasing unemployment. That, plus the other aspects of the 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:50.599 resilience that we've seen in the US economy makes recession 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.400 less likely because the reality is, you know, if you 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:56.960 get half a percent or certainly a full percent. Historically, 0:05:57.240 --> 0:06:00.520 anytime the unemployment rate in the US had risen by 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:03.120 at least half of percent, there's been a recession. It's 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:07.160 just you get the compounding effect that hasn't happened, So 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:10.039 the probability's gone down, but there's still lots. 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:11.839 When you're the head of the central back in Canada, 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:13.719 do you kind of refer a lot to what the 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:16.240 US was doing because your economy so tied to the US. 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:18.480 Or do you say, look, we're we're going to do 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:19.680 what we want to do. We don't care what the 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:21.480 US is going to do. You consult a lot. 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:25.400 We obsess about the US as the short answer, because 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:30.280 it's the most impactful external factor for the Canadian economy. 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:33.080 And there's also some you know, some of the things 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:36.719 that drive growth in the United States, they're common factors 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:40.080 that drive growth and or inflation in Canada. Let's talk 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:42.960 about your background. So where did you grow up in Canada? 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:43.640 Where were you born? 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:46.880 I was born in Fort Smith in the Northwest Territories. 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:50.320 And you're the Arctic and you're in the Northwest Territories. Yeah, 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:51.280 that's very far up. 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:53.160 It is very far up Yeah, So what we're your 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:55.920 emphasis on the north and what were your parents doing there? 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:57.279 My parents were teachers. 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:00.240 And did you ever tay to them that's pretty far 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:02.560 up north to be living. And did they ever move closer? 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:05.680 They moved, we moved. Well, it's interesting. 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:09.560 I mean it's whatever two hour flights south to Edmonton, which. 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:11.280 Is probably then you grow up in Edmonton. 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:13.160 I grew up in Edmonton. I went to Yes, And 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:15.120 so you were a hockey player too. I was a 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:15.640 hockey player. 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:20.000 Yes. So you played Harvard hockey at Harvard's right, I did? Yes? 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:22.880 Ish I opened the gate. I was a goalie, so 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:25.400 I opened the gate for a lot of very good players. 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:26.040 Really. 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:28.040 So were you a star at Harvard in the hockey 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:28.560 world or. 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:30.960 I was very good at opening the gate? Yes? But 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:32.760 you never consider going to the NHL? 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:34.320 Yeah? 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:37.800 I considered it. They didn't. The NHL did not consider it. 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:39.800 Maybe in some sort of administrative role. 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:43.160 But okay, So after you graduated, you went to do 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:47.320 something like investment banking and you went to Goldman Sacks. 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:49.840 I went to Golden Sacks in London, yes, nineteen eighty eight. 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:51.080 And what did you do there? 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:56.880 I worked, Actually I worked in the credit department. So yeah, 0:07:56.920 --> 0:07:59.960 credit analysis, which was probably the best thing I could 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:03.080 have done, because you know, you build up a fundamental skill. 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:07.680 How many people go to Goldman after college a young 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:10.520 get an MBA and you decided not to get an 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:13.440 MBA but to get a PhD in economics. Why did 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:14.760 you want a PhD economics? 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:18.720 I wanted to well, I thought that at some point 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:20.640 i'd work in public policy, and I thought it would 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:23.200 be more useful. And I toyed a bit with being 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:25.920 an academic as well. My father was ended up being 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:27.000 a professor ultimately. 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:29.480 So you did this in Oxford. Why didn't you do 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:31.480 a university in the United States or Canada? 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:33.280 Why did you get the way to England? Yeah? 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:37.680 It was To be honest, you could do a PhD 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:41.079 in Oxford in three years, as opposed to if you're 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:44.680 in the US system as a doctor student, you spend 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:46.600 a huge amount of time teaching, which is great if 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:48.720 you're going to be an academic. If you want the 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:52.920 academic training, though, it means that the average time is most. 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:55.320 So when you were in Oxford, did you also played hockey? Rint? Right? 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:57.760 I did? And where you was a star or you're 0:08:57.760 --> 0:08:58.840 a star. 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:05.440 Yeah, okay, So you stayed at Goldman for how many years? 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:07.080 I was back? 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:09.800 In total, I was thirteen years at Goldman, but eight 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:12.160 almost ten years, I guess. 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:14.280 So what the highest level you reached. 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:16.840 That Goldman was to be a managing director managing director, 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:18.760 So managing director, a managing director? 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:21.439 Okay, So why did you leave Goldman? Some people think 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:22.760 it's the greatest thing in the world to be a 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:25.920 Goldman managing director. Why did you decide to leave and 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:26.760 go back to Canada? 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:29.079 But I had an opportunity to become Deputy governor at 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:32.160 the Bank of Canada. I've always had an interest in 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:36.160 public policy. It was unique, unique opportunity and I fully 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:38.880 huge respect for the guy who was governor at the time, 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:39.600 David Dodge. 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:41.360 And so how. 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:43.240 Would they have heard of you? You're an investment banker 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:45.120 in Goldman. People in Canada are They. 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:46.400 Had an end. They put an ad in the paper 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:47.040 and I applied. 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:51.360 They put an ad in the paper and you responded, wow, okay, 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:51.840 that's how. 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:52.600 You got a job. Okay. 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:55.480 Well now it's like, okay, so it's not how you 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:58.160 got to be the governor as well? You responded to that. 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:01.200 Well, they knew they knew okay, well no, but you 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:03.439 know for the governor as well. I mean that's become 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:05.920 the norm now central banks do put ads. I don't 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:08.000 think the face. So you're the deputy governor. You then 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:10.319 went to the Finance. I went to the Finance Department 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:13.360 and I worked with Yeah, I was one of the 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:15.640 Then you become the governor and I became the governor 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:18.199 Stephen Harper, and that was an easy time because there 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:20.800 was no recession, there was no problems, the economy was 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:25.640 going well well. I yeah, basically I remember saying to Diana, 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:26.360 my wife's that. 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:26.720 Look. 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:29.920 I mean we had young kids, like you know, this job, 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:32.000 you know you make eight decisions a year. You know 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:36.720 exactly when you make those decisions, you know, work life balance. 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:37.440 It was going to work. 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:41.080 Great and U and two weeks after I started, bear 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:45.720 Stearn's failed. Ultimately you finished after about how many years 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:46.200 were you that? 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:47.880 Just under six six? 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:49.760 All right, you step down and say now I'm going 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:51.880 to go back and make money at Goldman Sachs. 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:53.440 So what did you want to do? Didn't I didn't 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:54.800 step down. I was asked to. 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:58.680 I was approached by the UK government to become governor 0:10:58.679 --> 0:10:59.760 of the Bank of England. 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:01.240 And is like an illegal poaching. 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:03.240 I mean they're going to another country to take the 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:04.880 central banker from another country. 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:06.320 Did you think that was unusual? 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:09.840 Well, it was, it was, It was unusual. It was 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:12.559 I mean the unusual times. Technically the head of state, 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:16.240 Queen Elizabeth is the same, so it's inter company transfer. 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:18.240 Okay. So yeah, all right. 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:20.920 So when you're the head of the Central Bank of Canada, 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:24.880 by the way, you get your signature on the currency. Yes, wow, 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:27.840 so that it's pretty nice when your hand somebody a 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:30.240 dollar bill, you say to people with my signature, you 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:32.760 ever tell them that, well, you don't break that rag? 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:33.840 Okay? All right. 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:36.319 So you get offered to go to be the head 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:39.199 of the Central Bank of England and you said yes 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:39.680 right away? 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:41.480 And I didn't. Actually I. 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:45.480 Turned it down a few times. It was a rolling 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:47.920 conversation over the course of twenty two eight. 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:51.360 So you ultimately took the job. I then took the job. Yeah, 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:53.480 I eventually took the job for about eight years. 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:55.719 Yeah, just under. And when you're the head of. 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:57.800 The Central Bank of England, does the Queen call you 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:01.280 for advice or she ask you anything? To meet the 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:02.079 Queen very much. 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:05.840 Or I did have a few audiences, right. 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:09.319 And just and the prime minister, he doesn't appoint you 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:12.640 the prime minister or he or she doesn't appoint you. 0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:13.880 Uh, you're appointed by the sovereign. 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:19.040 Yeah, and the sovereign report to the Board of Governors. 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:22.360 I show, uh, well you I mean you report to 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:26.040 the British people. Really through parliament is the way that's 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:30.160 really the accountability you're I mean, you can only be 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:34.120 removed for incapacity and that is a very Did you 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:38.280 enjoy that job, job, job security, the job? 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:42.360 I enjoy that I it was, Yes, I did. 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:45.200 I mean it was you know sometimes in the in 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:48.240 the thick of it, it's it doesn't feel enjoyable. But 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:51.319 it was incredibly challenged. He was you know, there was 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:54.800 a lot going on, which is the reason why an 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:55.719 outsider came in. 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:58.440 So yes, I did enjoy it. 0:12:58.480 --> 0:12:59.680 Was it more fun to be the head of the 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:02.520 Central Bank of Canada or Central Bank of England? 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:05.400 I would say was with The challenges were much greater 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.640 in the UK. You had an institution that had been 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:11.319 totally transformed. You had a financial system that I mean 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:13.880 was at the epicenter of the problems and had to 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:19.040 be fixed. You had the elements of Brexit what ultimately 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:23.440 was Brexit, the Scottish referendum. You had a big management challenge, 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:25.800 you know, so it was you enjoyed it. 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:26.439 I enjoyed it. 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:29.000 Yeah, so you would recommend that job anybody that gets 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:29.600 offered it, right. 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:31.760 I did recommend it too. I recommended it to a 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:32.320 number of people. 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:35.320 Yet, not too long from now, the next meeting of 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:38.680 a COP will occur. I guess it's in Abodhabir Dubai, 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:41.760 and I assume you'll be there as a special envoy. 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:45.319 So the last COP meeting didn't seem to make a 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:48.280 lot of progress. What kind of progress you think is 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:49.800 going to be made this time where we actually get 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:51.880 closer to getting to the target goals? 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:52.240 And you have? 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:54.880 Yeah, well, I think the first thing. Let's just back 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:56.760 up for one second. So if we go to the 0:13:56.800 --> 0:14:00.720 Paris COP seven years ago, the world was headed towards 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:02.400 three and a half degrees warming by the end of 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:07.439 this century. IA came out last week says on current policies, 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:10.560 what actually is happening, We're headed to two point four degrees. 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:12.800 So there has been quite a bit of progress, it's 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:15.040 not enough. The goal is to be less than two. 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:17.280 But just to be clear in terms of the scale 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:20.920 of investment in the policies that we're making progress this 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:25.520 COP and full credit to the Presidency of the COP 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:30.560 the United Emirates and Sultan al Jaber is very focused 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:34.240 on commercial solutions for climate change. And so first and 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:39.280 foremost and objective to get the major oil countries, producing 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:43.720 countries and companies to commit to zero methane near zero 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:48.200 methane by twenty thirty, doubling the efficiency of producing and 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:50.240 transporting oil and gas. 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:53.320 So you step down for the Central Bank of England 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:56.520 and then you often become the special envoy off you 0:14:56.720 --> 0:15:01.200 and now you're the chairman of Field Asset Management, and 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:04.960 now to be the chairman of Bloomberg. Right, what is 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:06.280 Brookfield Asset Management? 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:11.000 So Brookfield Asset Management and Brookfield as a whole is 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:15.480 one of the world's largest alternative asset managers. The asset 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:19.240 management business is the capital light bit. So this is 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:24.600 where the twelve hundred plus investment professionals of Brookfield reside. 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:28.760 We oversee the investments that have two hundred thousand operating 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:36.120 professionals and it's a business that invests effectively in the 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:37.480 backbone of the global economy. 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:38.920 So that means renewable power. 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:41.840 One of the largest owners operators at renewable power, over 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:46.040 one hundred and sixty gigawatts of renewable power owned, operate 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:49.520 and develop. One of the largest real estate investors in 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:53.000 the world. One of the pioneers, if not the pioneers, 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:55.760 of infrastructure is an asset class. So one hundred and 0:15:55.800 --> 0:16:00.360 sixty billion under management in infrastructure, and that's everything from 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:04.960 energy infrastructure to data infrastructure, big private equity business and 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:07.000 a very large private credit business as well. 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:09.360 Now you have many jobs. Currently you're not the head 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:12.320 of the central bank in Inlet anymore or Canada, but 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:15.600 among other things, you're the special I guess advisor to 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:20.000 the UN Envoy Special Envoy UN on climate change. 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:23.360 So right, that's correct, on climate action and finance. Right, 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:25.280 So what does that really mean? What are you doing? 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:28.680 You're telling the people in each country they should go 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:31.200 more electric or don't burn as much oil, or what 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:32.440 it's really about. 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:34.880 So a lot of if there's a common theme to 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:39.360 my career, it's working at the intersection of public policy 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:42.400 and private markets. So a lot of that in central banking, 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:45.480 that's what you're doing. And that's what I'm doing, is 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:49.720 this special envoy, And really it's to organize the private 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:54.640 financial system to be ready for climate change, not just 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:57.120 the physical impacts of climate change, but to be part 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:59.520 of the solution, to be able to provide capital, get 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:01.000 capital where it's needed to. 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:03.080 Get a mission. 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:06.560 So in this disposition, which I assume is probably an 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:09.400 unpaid position very much, so you know, people are looking 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:11.199 at you all the time, say you're the special envoy 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:12.840 for climate action. 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:16.200 Can you can't fly in a private plane so easily? 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:16.760 I guess, right? 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:21.600 Then do you take public transportation or you can you 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:23.680 drive your own carve it's an oil and gas car 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:24.159 or not? 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:25.880 Well I have I. 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:28.960 Might not surprise if we have an electric car, as 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.080 you would expect, and most of the time that is 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:33.040 charged in Quebec. 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:34.639 I live just on the border with Quebec. 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:37.840 And that's therefore, are you countable power? 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:38.600 Are you conscious? 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:40.720 People always looking at you as a special envoye saying 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:42.800 you know he's using too much, he's got too big 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:44.280 a carbon footprint, or you don't worry about that? 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:47.440 Well no, people, look, people will make that, particularly if 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:50.760 they don't want to confront the tough issues around climate change, 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:53.200 the big blocks of what's actually going to make a difference. 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:56.560 They'll go to, you know, the anything you're wearing. You know, 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.359 there's plastic on my watch strap, and therefore there's an 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:00.880 element of high carbons in that. 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:03.359 If you have an oil and gas investment that comes 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:06.080 to an investment committee and you're the special envoy, you 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:08.040 have to recuse yourself or how do you know. 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:11.440 Well, we have a very we have very clear approach 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:13.440 at Brookfield. As I say, we're one of the largest 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:18.840 renewable energy providers and we are systematically going through our 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:24.639 assets to ensure that as much as possible they have 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:29.520 business plans that are consistent with the transition towards net zero. 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:35.800 And we do that first and foremost. From a fiduciary perspective, 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:40.159 we see being low carbon or lowering your carbon footprint 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:42.560 to put it that way, as one of the fundamental 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:45.640 drivers of value in the market. And I have to say, 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:47.920 you know, we're being proven right. We know in real 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:51.080 time that the mapping of the temperature increase to the 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:54.400 extreme weather events is worse than we thought ten years ago. 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:57.840 So actually the goal, even though the goal is getting 0:18:57.880 --> 0:18:59.800 tougher to get it's becoming more. 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:03.680 To get there. And the third thing we know is 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:04.280 the mapping. 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:10.000