1 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: One of the most admired, respected, and busiest global leaders 2 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:09,079 Speaker 1: in the world is Mark Carney. He served for a 3 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: number of years as the Governor of the Bank of 4 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: Canada for a number of additional years as the Governor 5 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: of the Bank of England. He currently serves as a 6 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: Special UN Envoy for Climate Action Finance, and he also 7 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: chairs Brookfield Asset Management. I had a chance to sit 8 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: down with Mark recently to talk about how he does 9 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: all these things so well, Mark has been the Bank 10 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 1: of Canada governor, been the governor of the Bank of England. 11 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: Has anybody ever been the governor of two different central 12 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: banks in two different countries. 13 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 2: No, I don't think so. 14 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:46,599 Speaker 1: And so in addition to that, in addition to that, 15 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: you are also the chairman of Brookfield Asset Management, and 16 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: you are the new chairman of Bloomberg. So you obviously 17 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: like b Bank of Canada, Bank of England, Bloomberg and Brookfield. 18 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: But there's a story in the latest edition of a 19 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: Canadian newspaper like two days ago that's saying that you 20 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: might also be the next Prime Minister of Canada. 21 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 2: So any interest in that in the story, not in 22 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 2: the story per se. The you know, It's interesting you 23 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 2: you say the same thing over and over, but it 24 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 2: gets heard differently in different contexts. And I think that 25 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 2: story is probably more indication of the current environment in Canada. 26 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 3: In other words, you wouldn't be uninterested in that. 27 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 2: I'm interested that we have an effective prime minister in Kenada. Okay, 28 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 2: so Prime Minister Trudeau, and you know him. I know 29 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 2: him well, yes, and he's done very so. 30 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: But we'll take that as maybe all right, so I 31 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: won't pursue that anymore. All right, let me ask you, 32 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: as the Bank of England governor and as the Bank 33 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: of Canada governor, do you think the other the central 34 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: banks recently figured out that inflation was more serious than 35 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: it was too late? Or do you think they recognized 36 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: early when it was going to be serious they just 37 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: didn't do enough about it. 38 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 3: No. 39 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 2: I think in hindsight they realized it too late. They 40 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 2: were operating under the old paradigm, if you will. It 41 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 2: was an issue of not enough demand, and that is 42 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 2: something that works well generally until you have a bunch 43 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 2: of supply shocks. And we had a COVID supply shock, 44 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 2: we had an energy supply shock. We had supply shoks 45 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 2: with supply chains, geopolitics, all of which meant that there 46 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 2: was more than transitory inflation, and it took a while 47 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 2: for some of the central banks to fully recognize that 48 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 2: and start to respond. 49 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,239 Speaker 1: Now that they have did recognize it, do you think 50 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: they've done enough? And do you see any more rate 51 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: increases likely to come about? There are many people in 52 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:55,519 Speaker 1: the market who think that maybe another rate increase in 53 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: the United States is likely. 54 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 3: What do you think about that? 55 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, first first part of the question, and I 56 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 2: think that once they started to move, and particularly when 57 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 2: the FED started to move, it did respond in a 58 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 2: very effective manner. It's consistently surprised people with it how 59 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 2: resolute it was and what it was prepared to do. 60 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 2: It recognized that the bigger risk was that inflation stayed 61 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 2: high or worsened, and it has put us in a position, 62 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 2: put the US in a position where inflation is increasingly 63 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 2: under control, not totally under control. And that gets to 64 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 2: the second part of your question, which is, I know, 65 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 2: if I have to choose a camp, I be in 66 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 2: the camp of I expect that there will be a 67 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 2: bit more tightening by the Fed, so probably an additional 68 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 2: rate increase this year, But. 69 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 3: What's as important. 70 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 2: In fact, what's more important is the path of policy 71 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 2: over the course of the next twelve to eighteen months. 72 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 2: And I think it's finally beginning to be recognized. It's 73 00:03:57,560 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 2: been a painful few weeks for some of the market 74 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 2: in getting recognition that it's not just about where the 75 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 2: rate is today, it's not just about the peak, but 76 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 2: it's the path, and the path of rates is very 77 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 2: much and I've been in this view for a while, 78 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 2: higher for longer, in order to ensure that policy is 79 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 2: adequately tight to bring inflation fully back to that two percent. 80 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: When I was in the White House as a young man, 81 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: we were running for reelection under Jimmy Carter, and the 82 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: head of the inflation Effort fighting inflation effort was a 83 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: man named Fred Kahn, former Cornell professor, and he went 84 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: out into the White House briefing room one day and said, 85 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 1: I think we're going to have a recession. Well, Carter 86 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 1: hauled him into the oval. Officer said Fred, I'm running 87 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 1: for reelection. Do not use the R word. It scares people. 88 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: And fred Kahn said, well, what am I supposed to do? 89 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: I have to be honest, be honest, but don't use 90 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: the R word. So the next time Fred Kahn went 91 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: out and he said, I think we're heading into a banana. 92 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 3: He used the word banana. 93 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: As a substitute of recession for figuring reporters wouldn't put 94 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: that in the headline. So are we heading into a banana? 95 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 1: Do you think or you think we're not going into 96 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: a banana? 97 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 3: Well, I think the. 98 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 2: Likelihood of banana has gone down. Actually, to be clear, 99 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,720 Speaker 2: the FED has done quite a masterful job. Other things 100 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 2: have helped. But if you look at and you asked 101 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 2: me a moment ago rightly about unemployment and getting back 102 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 2: to the two percent, what's happened in the US, almost 103 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 2: uniquely in the US is there hasn't been a sharp 104 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 2: rise in unemployment. There's been a fall in vacancies, something 105 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 2: that hasn't happened in the past. But of course this 106 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 2: cycle is quite different than any previous cycles. So the 107 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 2: Fed's been able to thus far ease some of the 108 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 2: pressure in the labor market by reducing vacancies as opposed 109 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 2: to increasing unemployment. That, plus the other aspects of the 110 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 2: resilience that we've seen in the US economy makes recession 111 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 2: less likely because the reality is, you know, if you 112 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 2: get half a percent or certainly a full percent. Historically, 113 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 2: anytime the unemployment rate in the US had risen by 114 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 2: at least half of percent, there's been a recession. It's 115 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 2: just you get the compounding effect that hasn't happened, So 116 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 2: the probability's gone down, but there's still lots. 117 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 1: When you're the head of the central back in Canada, 118 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: do you kind of refer a lot to what the 119 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: US was doing because your economy so tied to the US. 120 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 1: Or do you say, look, we're we're going to do 121 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: what we want to do. We don't care what the 122 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: US is going to do. You consult a lot. 123 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 2: We obsess about the US as the short answer, because 124 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 2: it's the most impactful external factor for the Canadian economy. 125 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 2: And there's also some you know, some of the things 126 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 2: that drive growth in the United States, they're common factors 127 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 2: that drive growth and or inflation in Canada. Let's talk 128 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 2: about your background. So where did you grow up in Canada? 129 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 3: Where were you born? 130 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 2: I was born in Fort Smith in the Northwest Territories. 131 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: And you're the Arctic and you're in the Northwest Territories. Yeah, 132 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 1: that's very far up. 133 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 2: It is very far up Yeah, So what we're your 134 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 2: emphasis on the north and what were your parents doing there? 135 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 3: My parents were teachers. 136 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: And did you ever tay to them that's pretty far 137 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: up north to be living. And did they ever move closer? 138 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: They moved, we moved. Well, it's interesting. 139 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 2: I mean it's whatever two hour flights south to Edmonton, which. 140 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 3: Is probably then you grow up in Edmonton. 141 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 2: I grew up in Edmonton. I went to Yes, And 142 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 2: so you were a hockey player too. I was a 143 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 2: hockey player. 144 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 3: Yes. So you played Harvard hockey at Harvard's right, I did? Yes? 145 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 2: Ish I opened the gate. I was a goalie, so 146 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 2: I opened the gate for a lot of very good players. 147 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 3: Really. 148 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 2: So were you a star at Harvard in the hockey 149 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 2: world or. 150 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 3: I was very good at opening the gate? Yes? But 151 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 3: you never consider going to the NHL? 152 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 2: Yeah? 153 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 3: I considered it. They didn't. The NHL did not consider it. 154 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 3: Maybe in some sort of administrative role. 155 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: But okay, So after you graduated, you went to do 156 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: something like investment banking and you went to Goldman Sacks. 157 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 3: I went to Golden Sacks in London, yes, nineteen eighty eight. 158 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 3: And what did you do there? 159 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 2: I worked, Actually I worked in the credit department. So yeah, 160 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 2: credit analysis, which was probably the best thing I could 161 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 2: have done, because you know, you build up a fundamental skill. 162 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: How many people go to Goldman after college a young 163 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: get an MBA and you decided not to get an 164 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: MBA but to get a PhD in economics. Why did 165 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: you want a PhD economics? 166 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 2: I wanted to well, I thought that at some point 167 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 2: i'd work in public policy, and I thought it would 168 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 2: be more useful. And I toyed a bit with being 169 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 2: an academic as well. My father was ended up being 170 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 2: a professor ultimately. 171 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: So you did this in Oxford. Why didn't you do 172 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: a university in the United States or Canada? 173 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 3: Why did you get the way to England? Yeah? 174 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 2: It was To be honest, you could do a PhD 175 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,079 Speaker 2: in Oxford in three years, as opposed to if you're 176 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 2: in the US system as a doctor student, you spend 177 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 2: a huge amount of time teaching, which is great if 178 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 2: you're going to be an academic. If you want the 179 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 2: academic training, though, it means that the average time is most. 180 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 3: So when you were in Oxford, did you also played hockey? Rint? Right? 181 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 3: I did? And where you was a star or you're 182 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 3: a star. 183 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So you stayed at Goldman for how many years? 184 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 3: I was back? 185 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 2: In total, I was thirteen years at Goldman, but eight 186 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 2: almost ten years, I guess. 187 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 3: So what the highest level you reached. 188 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 2: That Goldman was to be a managing director managing director, 189 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 2: So managing director, a managing director? 190 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,439 Speaker 1: Okay, So why did you leave Goldman? Some people think 191 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: it's the greatest thing in the world to be a 192 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: Goldman managing director. Why did you decide to leave and 193 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: go back to Canada? 194 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,079 Speaker 2: But I had an opportunity to become Deputy governor at 195 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 2: the Bank of Canada. I've always had an interest in 196 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 2: public policy. It was unique, unique opportunity and I fully 197 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 2: huge respect for the guy who was governor at the time, 198 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 2: David Dodge. 199 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 3: And so how. 200 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: Would they have heard of you? You're an investment banker 201 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: in Goldman. People in Canada are They. 202 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 3: Had an end. They put an ad in the paper 203 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 3: and I applied. 204 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: They put an ad in the paper and you responded, wow, okay, 205 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 1: that's how. 206 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 3: You got a job. Okay. 207 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: Well now it's like, okay, so it's not how you 208 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: got to be the governor as well? You responded to that. 209 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 2: Well, they knew they knew okay, well no, but you 210 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,439 Speaker 2: know for the governor as well. I mean that's become 211 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 2: the norm now central banks do put ads. I don't 212 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 2: think the face. So you're the deputy governor. You then 213 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,319 Speaker 2: went to the Finance. I went to the Finance Department 214 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 2: and I worked with Yeah, I was one of the 215 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 2: Then you become the governor and I became the governor 216 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,199 Speaker 2: Stephen Harper, and that was an easy time because there 217 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 2: was no recession, there was no problems, the economy was 218 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 2: going well well. I yeah, basically I remember saying to Diana, 219 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 2: my wife's that. 220 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 3: Look. 221 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 2: I mean we had young kids, like you know, this job, 222 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 2: you know you make eight decisions a year. You know 223 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 2: exactly when you make those decisions, you know, work life balance. 224 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 3: It was going to work. 225 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 2: Great and U and two weeks after I started, bear 226 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 2: Stearn's failed. Ultimately you finished after about how many years 227 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 2: were you that? 228 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 3: Just under six six? 229 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: All right, you step down and say now I'm going 230 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: to go back and make money at Goldman Sachs. 231 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 3: So what did you want to do? Didn't I didn't 232 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 3: step down. I was asked to. 233 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 2: I was approached by the UK government to become governor 234 00:10:58,679 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 2: of the Bank of England. 235 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 3: And is like an illegal poaching. 236 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: I mean they're going to another country to take the 237 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: central banker from another country. 238 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 3: Did you think that was unusual? 239 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 2: Well, it was, it was, It was unusual. It was 240 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 2: I mean the unusual times. Technically the head of state, 241 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 2: Queen Elizabeth is the same, so it's inter company transfer. 242 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 3: Okay. So yeah, all right. 243 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: So when you're the head of the Central Bank of Canada, 244 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: by the way, you get your signature on the currency. Yes, wow, 245 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: so that it's pretty nice when your hand somebody a 246 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: dollar bill, you say to people with my signature, you 247 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: ever tell them that, well, you don't break that rag? 248 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 3: Okay? All right. 249 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 1: So you get offered to go to be the head 250 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,199 Speaker 1: of the Central Bank of England and you said yes 251 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: right away? 252 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 3: And I didn't. Actually I. 253 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 2: Turned it down a few times. It was a rolling 254 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 2: conversation over the course of twenty two eight. 255 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: So you ultimately took the job. I then took the job. Yeah, 256 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: I eventually took the job for about eight years. 257 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:55,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, just under. And when you're the head of. 258 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: The Central Bank of England, does the Queen call you 259 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: for advice or she ask you anything? To meet the 260 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:02,079 Speaker 1: Queen very much. 261 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 3: Or I did have a few audiences, right. 262 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 1: And just and the prime minister, he doesn't appoint you 263 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: the prime minister or he or she doesn't appoint you. 264 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 3: Uh, you're appointed by the sovereign. 265 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and the sovereign report to the Board of Governors. 266 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 2: I show, uh, well you I mean you report to 267 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 2: the British people. Really through parliament is the way that's 268 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 2: really the accountability you're I mean, you can only be 269 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 2: removed for incapacity and that is a very Did you 270 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 2: enjoy that job, job, job security, the job? 271 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 3: I enjoy that I it was, Yes, I did. 272 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 2: I mean it was you know sometimes in the in 273 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 2: the thick of it, it's it doesn't feel enjoyable. But 274 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,319 Speaker 2: it was incredibly challenged. He was you know, there was 275 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 2: a lot going on, which is the reason why an 276 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:55,719 Speaker 2: outsider came in. 277 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 3: So yes, I did enjoy it. 278 00:12:58,480 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 1: Was it more fun to be the head of the 279 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: Central Bank of Canada or Central Bank of England? 280 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 2: I would say was with The challenges were much greater 281 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 2: in the UK. You had an institution that had been 282 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:11,319 Speaker 2: totally transformed. You had a financial system that I mean 283 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 2: was at the epicenter of the problems and had to 284 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 2: be fixed. You had the elements of Brexit what ultimately 285 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 2: was Brexit, the Scottish referendum. You had a big management challenge, 286 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 2: you know, so it was you enjoyed it. 287 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:26,439 Speaker 3: I enjoyed it. 288 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you would recommend that job anybody that gets 289 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: offered it, right. 290 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 3: I did recommend it too. I recommended it to a 291 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 3: number of people. 292 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 1: Yet, not too long from now, the next meeting of 293 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: a COP will occur. I guess it's in Abodhabir Dubai, 294 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: and I assume you'll be there as a special envoy. 295 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,319 Speaker 1: So the last COP meeting didn't seem to make a 296 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: lot of progress. What kind of progress you think is 297 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: going to be made this time where we actually get 298 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: closer to getting to the target goals? 299 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 3: And you have? 300 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think the first thing. Let's just back 301 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 2: up for one second. So if we go to the 302 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 2: Paris COP seven years ago, the world was headed towards 303 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 2: three and a half degrees warming by the end of 304 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:07,439 Speaker 2: this century. IA came out last week says on current policies, 305 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 2: what actually is happening, We're headed to two point four degrees. 306 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 2: So there has been quite a bit of progress, it's 307 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 2: not enough. The goal is to be less than two. 308 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 2: But just to be clear in terms of the scale 309 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 2: of investment in the policies that we're making progress this 310 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 2: COP and full credit to the Presidency of the COP 311 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 2: the United Emirates and Sultan al Jaber is very focused 312 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 2: on commercial solutions for climate change. And so first and 313 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 2: foremost and objective to get the major oil countries, producing 314 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 2: countries and companies to commit to zero methane near zero 315 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 2: methane by twenty thirty, doubling the efficiency of producing and 316 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 2: transporting oil and gas. 317 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: So you step down for the Central Bank of England 318 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: and then you often become the special envoy off you 319 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: and now you're the chairman of Field Asset Management, and 320 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: now to be the chairman of Bloomberg. Right, what is 321 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: Brookfield Asset Management? 322 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 2: So Brookfield Asset Management and Brookfield as a whole is 323 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 2: one of the world's largest alternative asset managers. The asset 324 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 2: management business is the capital light bit. So this is 325 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 2: where the twelve hundred plus investment professionals of Brookfield reside. 326 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 2: We oversee the investments that have two hundred thousand operating 327 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 2: professionals and it's a business that invests effectively in the 328 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 2: backbone of the global economy. 329 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 3: So that means renewable power. 330 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 2: One of the largest owners operators at renewable power, over 331 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 2: one hundred and sixty gigawatts of renewable power owned, operate 332 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 2: and develop. One of the largest real estate investors in 333 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 2: the world. One of the pioneers, if not the pioneers, 334 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 2: of infrastructure is an asset class. So one hundred and 335 00:15:55,800 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 2: sixty billion under management in infrastructure, and that's everything from 336 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 2: energy infrastructure to data infrastructure, big private equity business and 337 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 2: a very large private credit business as well. 338 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: Now you have many jobs. Currently you're not the head 339 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: of the central bank in Inlet anymore or Canada, but 340 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: among other things, you're the special I guess advisor to 341 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: the UN Envoy Special Envoy UN on climate change. 342 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 3: So right, that's correct, on climate action and finance. Right, 343 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 3: So what does that really mean? What are you doing? 344 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: You're telling the people in each country they should go 345 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: more electric or don't burn as much oil, or what 346 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: it's really about. 347 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 2: So a lot of if there's a common theme to 348 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 2: my career, it's working at the intersection of public policy 349 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 2: and private markets. So a lot of that in central banking, 350 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 2: that's what you're doing. And that's what I'm doing, is 351 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 2: this special envoy, And really it's to organize the private 352 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 2: financial system to be ready for climate change, not just 353 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 2: the physical impacts of climate change, but to be part 354 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 2: of the solution, to be able to provide capital, get 355 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 2: capital where it's needed to. 356 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 3: Get a mission. 357 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: So in this disposition, which I assume is probably an 358 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 1: unpaid position very much, so you know, people are looking 359 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 1: at you all the time, say you're the special envoy 360 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: for climate action. 361 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 2: Can you can't fly in a private plane so easily? 362 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 2: I guess, right? 363 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: Then do you take public transportation or you can you 364 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 1: drive your own carve it's an oil and gas car 365 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:24,159 Speaker 1: or not? 366 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:25,880 Speaker 3: Well I have I. 367 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 2: Might not surprise if we have an electric car, as 368 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 2: you would expect, and most of the time that is 369 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 2: charged in Quebec. 370 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 3: I live just on the border with Quebec. 371 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 2: And that's therefore, are you countable power? 372 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 3: Are you conscious? 373 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: People always looking at you as a special envoye saying 374 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: you know he's using too much, he's got too big 375 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: a carbon footprint, or you don't worry about that? 376 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 2: Well no, people, look, people will make that, particularly if 377 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 2: they don't want to confront the tough issues around climate change, 378 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 2: the big blocks of what's actually going to make a difference. 379 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 2: They'll go to, you know, the anything you're wearing. You know, 380 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 2: there's plastic on my watch strap, and therefore there's an 381 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 2: element of high carbons in that. 382 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 1: If you have an oil and gas investment that comes 383 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: to an investment committee and you're the special envoy, you 384 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: have to recuse yourself or how do you know. 385 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 2: Well, we have a very we have very clear approach 386 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 2: at Brookfield. As I say, we're one of the largest 387 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 2: renewable energy providers and we are systematically going through our 388 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 2: assets to ensure that as much as possible they have 389 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 2: business plans that are consistent with the transition towards net zero. 390 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 2: And we do that first and foremost. From a fiduciary perspective, 391 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:40,159 Speaker 2: we see being low carbon or lowering your carbon footprint 392 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 2: to put it that way, as one of the fundamental 393 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,640 Speaker 2: drivers of value in the market. And I have to say, 394 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 2: you know, we're being proven right. We know in real 395 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 2: time that the mapping of the temperature increase to the 396 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 2: extreme weather events is worse than we thought ten years ago. 397 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 2: So actually the goal, even though the goal is getting 398 00:18:57,880 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 2: tougher to get it's becoming more. 399 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 3: To get there. And the third thing we know is 400 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 3: the mapping. 401 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 2: You can map specific actions to specific emission reductions and 402 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 2: it can become very clear whether you're making a difference 403 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 2: on that and what we've seen. I'll make two points 404 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 2: if I may, on that. One is we go back 405 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 2: five years ago. Clean energy investment, so that's wind, solar, 406 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 2: battery storage, and let's say ev charging those types of things. 407 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 2: About five hundred billion worldwide dollars spent this year last year, 408 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 2: one point two trillion this year one point eight trillion. Okay, 409 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 2: that is one and a half one point six times 410 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 2: what we're spending on conventional energy investment, and that's starting 411 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 2: to move, you know, so you can see in real 412 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 2: time what's happening in terms of emission reduction, solution emission reduction, 413 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 2: and as well, you know, from a financial we're at Bloomberg, 414 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 2: you know, and talking a bit about Brookfield as well. 415 00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 3: From a financial perspective. 416 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 2: First off, the numbers are huge in terms of the 417 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 2: you know, the action is in the clean not in 418 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 2: the conventional. Secondly, the information set around whether or not 419 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 2: a company doesn't matter what the industry is could be 420 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:17,479 Speaker 2: tech could be motor, whatever services. The information about what 421 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 2: your carbon footprint is today and where it's going is exploding, 422 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 2: so you can tell. 423 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 3: Who's part of the solution, who's part of the problem, 424 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 3: and that is driving value. 425 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 1: Some of the emerging market countries say, well, wait a second, 426 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 1: you guys in the United States and Western Europe, you 427 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: had a century or so to pollute as much as 428 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 1: you want it. Now you're asking us, as we're emerging, 429 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 1: to give away the right to use some of these 430 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,120 Speaker 1: same kinds of fuels that you use as it's not fair, 431 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: They would say, what do you respond to that. 432 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 3: Well, it's not fair. 433 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,880 Speaker 2: Unfortunately, the disproportionate impacts of climate change will also fall 434 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,719 Speaker 2: in those same countries and the people in those countries. 435 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 2: You know, Africa, seventeen percent of the world's people three 436 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,239 Speaker 2: percent of the world's emissions run right, but you know, 437 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 2: you know, hundreds of millions of people will be in 438 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 2: uninhabitable climate if we don't get. 439 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 3: This on top. 440 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 2: So we've got to all get together and deal with it. 441 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 2: First point, and then the second is that now, given 442 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 2: the progress that has been made in the economics of 443 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 2: wind solar stores particularly, they are becoming the low cost 444 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 2: solutions for those countries as well. 445 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: You have an electric car. You said you drive electric car, right, 446 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 1: So some people say electric cars are not perfect in 447 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 1: the sense that they get the minerals you need for 448 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: some of their batteries. For example, you have to do 449 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: a lot of mining of things, and that is not 450 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: great for the environment either. But on the whole you 451 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,719 Speaker 1: would say electric vehicles are infinitely better than carbon. 452 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 3: Well, here we are in combustion. 453 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 2: At Bloomberg and I can reference BNF research on this, 454 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 2: which they actually show depending on where you are where 455 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 2: the crossover point is that your electric car net impact 456 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 2: on the environment is you know where it's better than 457 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 2: the internal combustion engine car. 458 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 3: If you're in. 459 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 2: Place like Canada, where you've got a lot of clean 460 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 2: power eighty five percent of our power zero mission in Canada, 461 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 2: a little plug for Canadian manufacturing there by the way, 462 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 2: and the crossovers about eighteen months. If you're even if 463 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 2: you're in China where you have instilled in the installed 464 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,959 Speaker 2: based a lot of coal, it's well, I'll have to 465 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,199 Speaker 2: check on I'll do BNF and check the number, but 466 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,959 Speaker 2: it's around five years, okay, So and that includes the 467 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,479 Speaker 2: embedded carbon from all those processes. 468 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:36,880 Speaker 1: For somebody whos watching it says, I'd like to be 469 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: like Mark Carney successful, but almost everything is touched to say, 470 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: maybe not hockey perfectly, but pretty good. 471 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 3: What was it your hard work? 472 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: It's just being good jeans, you know, just smarter than 473 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 1: everybody else. So what is it luck? What do you 474 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: think it is that enable you to do all these things? 475 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: And you're still a very young man by my standard, 476 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: you're fifty eight years old. That's a teenager to me. 477 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,640 Speaker 1: How so what do you think made this possible? 478 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 2: Well, look, luck is a huge element of it, without question. 479 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,120 Speaker 2: You make your own luck to some extent if you're 480 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 2: doing things that you like and you care about, so 481 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 2: you're around opportunities. You know, I wouldn't have been Governor 482 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 2: of the Bank of England if I hadn't wanted to 483 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 2: be in public policy and was the governor of Bank 484 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 2: of Canada, for example. 485 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 3: But I, at least in. 486 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 2: My experience, maybe with my genes or whatever, I think 487 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 2: you can't get away. 488 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 3: From hard work. 489 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,159 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews. You 490 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or 491 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 1: wherever you listen.