WEBVTT - Reaction Podcast: Harris Goads Trump Into a Debate on Her Terms 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:08.880 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:13.080 Everybody knows I'm an open book. Everybody knows what I'm 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:16.040 going to do, cut taxes very substantially and create a 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:17.920 great economy like I did before. 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:22.160 I am offering what I describe as an opportunity economy, 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:25.880 and the best economists in our country, if not the world, 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:35.960 have reviewed our relative plans for the future of America. 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:40.839 Welcome to this whistlestop edition of voter Nomics, where markets 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:44.199 and politics collide, and we're talking about the first debate 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:47.400 between the former president Donald Trump and the Vice president 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:50.839 and Democratic nominee Kamala Harris. It was hosted last night 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:55.080 in Philadelphia by ABC News. I'm Stephanie Flanders, head of 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:56.800 Economics and Government at Bloomberg. 0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:59.160 I'm alecro Stratton, and I'm Adrian Wooldridge. 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:01.600 And Tim O'Brien is here, head of opinion for Bloomberg. 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:05.360 I mean, Tim, this was President Trump's sixth debate, but 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:07.120 I think it was probably I think it's fair to 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:08.840 say it was the first in which he's been so 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:12.280 often on the defensive. I mean, Kamala Harris came with 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:16.080 a plan to bait him clearly and let voters see 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:20.440 the Donald Trump that is least popular with those crucial, 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:23.600 kind of middle of the road undecided voters. But I mean, 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:26.200 I suspect everyone else who's debated Trump has also had 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:30.240 a plan. Hillary Clinton surely did. But the difference seemed 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:32.560 to me staying up in the early hours, was this 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:35.240 time it worked. I mean, I think a lot and 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:37.200 a lot of that came from Kamala Harris just having 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:38.959 the confidence to pick a fight with him. I mean, 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:41.240 she wasn't brilliant, but she was kind of the alpha female, 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:43.319 and I don't get the impression Donald was really ready 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:43.960 for that at all. 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:44.560 Well. 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:47.240 Also, you know, time has gone on. In twenty sixteen, 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:49.200 he was less of a known quantity. I don't think 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:52.000 his weak points were less known to his appointments. If 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:55.920 you ran tape of Harris last night against Hillary Clinton 0:01:56.440 --> 0:01:59.920 in twenty sixteen. He was also younger then, and he 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.680 he's noticeably degraded just physically since twenty sixteen. He's hard 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:07.360 of hearing, he's more mush mouthed, he's hunched over. He's 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:09.520 not as acute as he once was. You know, one 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:13.480 of his primary skills is performance art, not policy, And 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:16.760 as a performance artist, he's clearly degraded. So there was 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:19.800 that set of factors at work. And then secondarily, and 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:24.119 I think probably most importantly, is she did her homework 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:26.679 and she came into it knowing that how you get 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:31.280 Donald Trump off balance in any forum is it's not 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:34.800 about policy, it's about going after his sense of himself, 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:39.600 because he's narcissistic and insecure. And to me, the kind 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.520 of pivot point in the whole debate was when she 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:45.440 mentioned that people were getting bored at as rallies and 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:48.240 leaving early. And I looked at his face at that 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:49.840 moment you could sort of like, you know, he sort 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:53.160 of froze, and it led him then to give also 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:55.040 one of the most bonkers answers of the night. 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:57.480 And what you will also notice is that people start 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:01.200 leaving his rallies early out of exhaust, question and boredom. 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:04.280 What they have done to our country by allowing these 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:07.520 millions and millions of people to come into our country. 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:10.400 And look at what's happening to the towns all over 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:12.480 the United States. And a lot of towns don't want 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:14.959 to talk. Not going to be Aurora or Springfield, a 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:16.840 lot of towns don't want to talk about it because 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:21.040 they're so embarrassed by it. In Springfield, they're eating the 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:24.400 dogs the people that came in, they're eating the cats, 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:29.079 they're eating they're eating the pets of the people that 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:32.639 live there. And this is what's happening in our country. 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:35.600 And I don't know if you meant that as a 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:39.040 commentary on inflation and grocery prices, which had been one 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:41.200 of his bugaboos, or it's just one of his inflammatory 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:44.480 things about immigrants. I think probably definitely the latter. And 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:46.800 then he came back to say, but my rallies are 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:49.320 really popular, the most popular in history. You know. She 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:51.280 was a little unsettled at the beginning of the debate, 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:54.120 I think once they got into abortion, and then she 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:57.720 teed him up with that statement. It was her debate 0:03:57.960 --> 0:03:59.720 from there on in, and he just got more and 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:02.160 more like Jack Nicholson and a few good men. You know. 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:06.040 He was raging against the universe, probably more like King 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:07.000 Lear than anything else. 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:09.360 So did his team have a strategy and he didn't 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:11.760 execute it or did they just not have a strategy? 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:15.440 Yes, there's always which you can never have strategy in 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:18.400 Donald Trump in the same sentence, because he doesn't he 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:21.080 doesn't listen to other people. He believes he's a force 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:26.360 un to himself, and he never he never he thinks emotionally. 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:30.320 And I know for a fact that the guidance he 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:33.360 was getting from his team was to be a kind, 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:37.600 nice Donald. But that's not who he is. You know, 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:40.960 he's he's a juvenile, nasty man at his core, and 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:42.240 that's the person who showed up. 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:43.880 Even if you're going to be the nasty Trump, you 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:46.279 could be the nasty but reasonably disciplined Trump. And what 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:48.920 she was very successful. He was quite disciplined at the start. 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:50.080 And I think we could we could talk a little 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:51.840 bit about the economy section because it was probably his 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:56.159 best section, and talked about tariffs and some other things 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:59.120 he's stuck to some of the topics that you know, 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:01.839 his advice is have been telling him to, but he 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:04.920 couldn't help himself once she was sort of needling him 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:06.800 going into his sort of rally mode. 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:10.360 Well, I mean, I think one of the virtues of 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:12.240 Donald Trump in the past is that he's had a 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:15.760 very good sense of humor. I mean cruel and unpleasant 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:17.599 sense of humor, but he was able to tell a 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:21.160 joke and amuse people and feel people made people feel 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:24.360 a bit good about their resentments. That was completely absent. 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:28.400 I mean, he seems like a bad tempered, grouchy old man, 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:30.800 the sort of people that all too many people will 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:33.440 know from their home sitting in front of Fox News, 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:37.600 agreeing with it and talking to agree, you know, agreeing 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:40.800 with everysentiment on Fox News. He seems a bit past. 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:44.160 She also remember when Tim Watz was first nominated, and 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:45.840 one of the things that people said was one of 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:48.159 the reasons why he'd sort of caught fire when people 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:52.000 were campaigning kind of informally to be her running mate, 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:54.120 was that he'd sort of had this line about, you know, 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:56.680 they were weird. You know that there was that weird 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:59.479 stuff that that Trump and Mats were talking about in fact, 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:02.000 and he wanted to sit round a Thanksgiving table and 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:04.719 not have a weird argument with his aunt or his 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:08.200 uncle about something strange. And she was really channeling that 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:10.440 at various times. She was sort of he was there. 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:12.160 He had a very kind of he had his kind 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:15.039 of mugshot pose for most of it in the in 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:16.800 the two shot when you could see one next to 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:19.960 the other, and she was sort of she was very 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:22.440 effective at saying, this is a man who just wants 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:24.480 us to be shouting at each other all the time 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:26.760 and divisive, and we don't want to go back to that. 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:28.720 I thought she delivered that was obviously prepared, but she 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:29.760 delivered it very well. 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:32.280 Think about the fact that he wasn't aware of how 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:35.480 to handle the split screen, because it so did Biden 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:37.920 in in their June debate, and Biden didn't know how 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:40.640 to handle it, and maybe couldn't because he looked catatonic 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:43.040 when you know, when Trump was speaking, Biden was sort 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.720 of looking out into space and slack joed and it 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:48.960 was like, you know, is he actually breathing? And and 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:52.200 you would think anyone watching that debate, and especially Trump, 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:55.520 he's a former reality TV star. He understands the power 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:58.240 of celebrity and the visual mediums that he would have 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:02.400 had in his mind, don't stand there repeating the look 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:03.839 of your mugshot in Georgia. 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:05.680 Well, except for it worked so well for him, right, 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:07.400 so he thought this is a shot that people like. 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:09.880 But I mean, to your pot adrin about you know, 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:12.320 having been funny. It is true that people have sort 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:15.520 of found him amusing, but it is interesting given his 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:17.600 the one thing that she wasn't. She didn't get him 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:20.000 on was talking about her laugh although she did laugh 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:21.920 several times at him, and I wondered whether he was 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:24.200 going to go there. But he's talked about a lot 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:26.680 about her love. But you know, as people have commented, 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:29.080 it's very hard to find him laughing. He doesn't seem 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:31.280 to ever laugh. So I think even that played against 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:34.600 he seemed just very negative, very dow And I have 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:37.840 to say a leg I mean just being a woman 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:40.080 for a moment. You know, one has always thought, gosh, 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:44.040 the prospect of debating Donald Trump as a woman even 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:47.800 more challenging in some ways, and certainly the risk is 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:50.559 you will come across, as Hillary Clinton did, as someone 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:53.960 who was terribly well prepared and really was just felt 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:56.040 she just deserved to be listened to. Why would you 0:07:56.040 --> 0:08:00.080 listen to this awful man? Yes, a swat exactly, so 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:02.880 you don't say swat in America, but yeah, absolutely. But 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:05.600 I thought what was really interesting about the way she 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:07.800 did it was it was like that second step. I 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:10.200 remember having a professor who would say, you know, there's 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:13.040 learning a difficult text, and then there's learning to be 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:15.240 knowing it so well you can just walk around in it. 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:18.720 She didn't just know her debate prep. She was then 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:21.080 able to walk around in it. And when he mentioned something, 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:23.280 you know, when he said you're Biden, she was like, oh, great, 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:25.280 I can do the line that I'm not Biden. And 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:28.160 by the way, I'm a different generation from Biden and 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:31.400 you Donald Trump, I thought, as it sort of showed 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:34.840 that there's if you were brave enough, it's actually easier 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:36.760 to debate him as a woman, do you think yeah. 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:38.920 And gender is also playing a different role from the 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:41.920 one it played before with with Hillary Clinton, because abortion 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:44.600 has so been electrified as a political issue that she 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:48.280 is now the standard bearer for defending abortion right. So 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:51.400 whereas before with with Hillary Clinton, it hadn't been weaponized 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:54.320 in that way, it is now a political battering ram 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:57.560 for her to make all, you know, women across America 0:08:57.800 --> 0:08:59.760 very anxious about this guy. So and I don't think 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:02.920 that was a thing back then. Trump also tried to 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:04.920 kind of do a little bit back at her, where 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:06.720 he's like, I'm talking now, what a. 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:10.840 Minute, I'm talking now, if you don't mind, please does 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:11.720 that sound familiar? 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:15.760 Subverting the kind of previous charge of you know, let 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:19.400 me finish. She is a prosecutor, she is a parent 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:22.840 in the land. She is superb. The worry had been 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:26.560 that previously during the Democratic primaries back in the day, 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:28.880 she was wooden. I don't know why she was so 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:31.360 off her pace back in twenty nineteen and twenty twenty, 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:35.800 but she's now with this nomination, got a new confidence. 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:38.640 I don't think people saw even as vice president. 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:40.800 We didn't see it. Frankly in the CNN interview. 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:43.760 Absolutely, I think that's absolutely right. I think it's not 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:47.120 just that Trump had a really bad evening, but she 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:51.000 had really good evening in the sense, well she was 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:53.480 slow to start, but she got off some really well. 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:57.240 The stakes were so high. She came across as likable, 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:02.800 charismatic and actually quite articulate. It wasn't expected because she's been. 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:09.480 She has had some shockers. But my queasiness, and I 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:11.320 really want you to kind of kind of give us 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:14.080 a kind of gauge on this, tim My queasiness is 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:19.560 sometimes with Donald Trump, the sort of rambling shambalism works 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:21.360 for a bunch of people at home, they kind of 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:24.120 we look at it and think how in articular incoherent 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:29.000 and and rambling, and and then you know, he gets 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:31.280 a bite spike in the polls or or people go, yeah, 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:33.199 it's kind of reassuring because he's not super clever, and 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:36.000 he's not super shiny, and he's not really he's not. 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:39.120 He doesn't make me feel stupid or you know, because 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:42.400 Kamela is she's she is, she is so so polished 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:44.520 and so assured. 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:45.320 You know. 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:47.800 I think what we are learning about about voters is 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:50.960 some people that makes them feel, you know, you know, 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:53.599 lower in the self esteem. So I'm just wondering, is 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:57.240 it this time does that work for Donald Trump? Or actually, 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:00.000 this time is it just too to Stephanie's point, were 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:03.280 and incoherent, it's just too much. 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:06.920 It will continue to work for him with about thirty 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:09.840 percent of American voters, and it will always work for 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:13.640 him with those voters. And there are long routes to that, 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:15.839 the most recent which is the two thousand and eight 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:19.000 financial crisis, in the wake of which neither political party 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:21.920 in the United States addressed the needs of middle class 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:28.480 Americans who saw their mortgages, pensions, and hope evaporate standards, 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:32.680 and Trump filled that vacuum when he campaigned in twenty 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:36.520 fifteen and twenty sixteen and He basically said, I'm on 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:41.000 your side. The oppressive federal bureaucracy and all these people 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:43.640 of color sneaking across the borders are the ones doing 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:46.200 you in, and I will go after them on your behalf. 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:48.920 And he'll have the imagine hearts and minds of those 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:52.559 voters probably forever. But moderate and independent voters are not there. 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:54.600 But if you look at the reaction to this debate, 0:11:54.679 --> 0:12:01.280 it's quite interesting that the magaworld reaction has not been 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:04.160 He's on our side. He said some really good things. 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:06.880 They've been really quite shocked by how bad his performances. 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:11.520 I think he's becoming so that Elon Musk says, well, 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:13.720 he's obviously had a bad night. It's very hard, but 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:15.520 I still think they'll vote for him. 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:18.040 The electoral impact of it, I don't think is abandon 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:22.160 it's embarrassment. 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:22.800 But is the memes that have taken off on on on, 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:26.520 on Twitter and everywhere else. They're all very bad for him, 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:31.640 particularly on the issue of roasting pets or full of 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:34.360 people putting pets in in the oven and barbecuing them. 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:36.480 We go, that's not good for him. 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:39.680 With sort of segueing into the sort of reality check zone, 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:43.120 and I'm interested, Tim, I mean when you look at 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:45.480 the polls afterwards, about which we know in the end 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:47.800 don't make much difference. You've often had poles that he 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:49.760 was perceived to have lost and it didn't make a difference. 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:51.360 He was perceived to have lost in the debates, at 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:55.000 least on points and debates against Hillary, and you had 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.959 I think most of them have shown thirty eight forty five, 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:01.760 depending on which one you lookt still thinking that Donald 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:04.680 Trump won the debate. You know, obviously a majority thinking 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:08.320 Kamala Harris one. And I just wonder, you know, for 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:11.200 the first fifty minutes was about the economy, he was 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:14.720 more or less on message. She was fine, but definitely 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:17.800 not great. A lot of people would have just turned 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:20.000 off after that. Do you think there's I mean, it 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:23.240 certainly is possible that this does not move the needle 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:26.920 at all. We saw that even after the most catastrophic debate. 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:29.920 The first debate had a huge impact on the race 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:34.360 because it changed the candidate. The polls themselves barely moved 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:37.560 after that first debate. We saw a few points, but 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:40.160 that was probably the most catastrophic debate that any candidate 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:44.040 has ever had. So are we are we inevitably going 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:46.280 to be surprised by how little this affects anything. 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:49.120 I don't know the answer to that. I think that 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:51.680 you know, debates have a mixed record in terms of 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:54.480 whether they're predictive or they have an influence. The thing 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:57.920 to remember about what's transpired between late Tune and now 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:02.160 is that Trump was ahead by three to six points 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:05.920 in various swing states. That gap has completely closed, and 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:09.160 in some cases Harris is ahead of Trump, and in 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:12.600 Florida it's only two points. That has to terrify the Republicans. 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:16.280 If Florida flips, Trump loses, and it's a generational change 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:18.560 for the GOP. I think that you know a couple 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:21.880 things to remember or focus on, and I was thinking 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.000 about it when you asked alegra The quick question about 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:27.480 women and gender is that when Hillary Clinton campaigned in 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:30.480 twenty sixteen, one of the campaign models was I'm with her, 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:34.280 And what Harris is saying is I'm with you. She's 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:36.880 not denying that she's a candidate of color or obviously 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:40.400 that she's a woman, and she strategically embraces that when 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:43.440 it's useful. But she has I think the strength of 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:48.400 character to say I'm not doing identity politics here. I'm 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:51.320 trying to deliver solutions to voters and that's a really 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:54.520 powerful place to be. And I think the Kamala Harris 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:58.240 who has emerged on this international stage since being anointed 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:01.080 as Biden's successor is not Kamala Harris any of us 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:03.920 saw before. And I think I think it's a lesson 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:07.440 in people who were on the ground with one another 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:10.440 in any organization, whether it's politics or companies or families. 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:12.600 You know people better when you're with them every day. 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:16.360 And clearly the sharpest democratic operatives in the land, from 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:20.480 Nancy Pelosi on down, knew that she had evolved. And 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:22.920 there will be a very interesting TikTok written someday of 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:25.600 what happened when Biden got nudged down to that stage, 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:29.880 self emolated, and then with like clockwork. 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.120 The party. 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:35.360 Yeah, yeah, because I think I think there were probably 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:37.560 some people in the White House who knew he would 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:39.360 embarrass himself and the only way to get him out 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:44.040 of the race was humiliate and public Well, I just 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:46.720 think it's practical politics. You know, politicians are egotists, and 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:49.520 they don't move easily. And then the speed and the 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:51.880 alacrity with which she was put in place, and how 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:54.880 she's risen to the occasion people knew she could do it. 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:57.200 But quick question on that, I mean that Kamala Harris 0:15:57.240 --> 0:15:59.920 doesn't go away and that she's this still is that wreck? 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:02.160 I mean, how many staffers has she kept with her 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:04.840 through from the beginning of being vice president to to 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:08.480 now or to shortly before becoming the nominee for president? 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:10.480 Like not many. So there's a kind of. 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:14.400 Virtue when a man moves through an incompetent staff, and 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:19.200 when a woman does it, it's. 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:21.080 People do think it's about someone who's works in politics. 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:22.720 I don't think it is a virtue when people turn 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:25.080 through people very quickly. You need who are you? Who 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:27.520 are your kind of long term confidence. I'm not saying 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:30.120 I think it disqualifies her or that she's going to 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:32.040 be a bad president because of it. I'm just saying 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:36.280 that that that's slightly poor performing Kamala Harris. How much 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:38.600 of that is going to come back to the fore 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:40.600 at some point in terms of advisers she's had. I mean, 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:42.000 you're right that she's gone through that there is a 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:45.280 double standard because clearly, clearly, as Adrian says, Donald Trump's 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:47.320 not the one to talk about having gone through. 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:49.760 Lots of people. I thought, if we just talked briefly 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:51.640 about I mean, there were quite a lot of areas 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:54.400 where she could have. You know, one of the failures 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:56.920 that Donald Trump had is he didn't get enough onto 0:16:57.360 --> 0:17:00.880 Whenever the discussion had moved to her flops and her 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:04.320 weak areas like immigration, she would just sort of, rather 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:08.160 very obviously and transparently pivot back to something that would 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:10.720 bait him and distract him. But it did mean that 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:12.199 she got away with some of that. I thought, though. 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:14.399 There was a bit more substance on foreign policy, or 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:16.520 at least more discussion on foreign policy than I had 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:19.959 anticipated to talk about. Gaza talked about Ukraine, where he 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:22.240 was unwilling to say that he wanted Ukraine to win. 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:26.280 Even in that earlier section, she was quite She took 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:29.680 the offensive on China in an interesting way. How did 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:32.120 you think she was tim on foreign policy? 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:34.639 My own bias is that I think the United States 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:36.480 has to be a citizen of the world, and that 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:41.360 we play an indispensable role in global security and our 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:45.200 partnership with our allies in Western Europe and further abroad. 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:49.040 And I thought her most effective statement of the night 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:53.160 was how she described America's leadership role in the world, 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:55.760 her commitment to national security. I thought she was excellent 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:59.040 on Ukraine. She was excellent on Gaza, she was excellent 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:03.280 on China. All three of those theaters are are perilous 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:06.639 right now. China could invade Taiwan Gas as a potential 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.680 tinderbox for the rest of them Middle East. And if 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:12.560 we don't stand up to Vladimir Putin and Ukraine, he 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:15.679 becomes an even more predatory presence throughout the rest of Europe. 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:19.240 And I think the essential player in every one of 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:22.160 those theaters is the United States, for better or for worse. 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:24.159 And she made a statement of purpose around that I 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:25.160 thought was spectacular. 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:27.359 It's not just that she did very well on that, 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:29.480 It's just that it's also that Trump did very badly 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:32.000 on that, in the sense that he has dealt with 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:34.720 a great many people. He's been president for four years, 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:38.639 and he didn't make any real use of that depth 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:42.399 of experience or knowledge or comforting the world by saying 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:44.960 that I know these people, I can deal with them. 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:46.920 I'm a man who makes deals. He made nothing of. 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:49.800 The fact the Barker's statement of Victor. 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:51.840 He was citing. 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:56.960 So nothing, you know, no Nixonian depth of experience. And 0:18:57.000 --> 0:18:59.600 the other thing was immigration again, which is one of 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:01.240 his things, is one of the things that he just 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:04.040 had on the book. In the polls, people are worried 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:08.600 about it, and he fluffed it completely. He didn't talk 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:11.520 about people's real fears about immigration in fact, and Gren 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:13.600 sorry to mention this line, but he made it all 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:17.199 about cats and dogs, which was you know that that. 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:20.080 Had been a debunked meme. And the issue that where 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:22.679 average Americans fear immigration is that their jobs are going 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:24.960 to take not that they're going to be that someone 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:27.240 down the block is reading, you know, the kitchen and 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:29.119 making dinner, eating fluffy. 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:31.240 I mean, I suspect I toightly disagree with you, Tim, 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:32.919 in the sense of I suspect probably the bit her 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:35.560 advisors will have been least happy with, or at least 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:38.040 will not will not be so excited about is her 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:40.560 fulsome defense of the role of America in the world. 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:42.560 Which is not to say she shouldn't say it, but 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:46.000