WEBVTT - Part One: Crime Pays: The Sophie Lyons Story 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:02.920 Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff. I'm 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:05.720 your host, Margaret Killjoy and with me today is prop 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:09.400 most of the only other cool Zone media podcast with politics. 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:13.680 Probably what up? Talk to me nice, Margaret. Yeah, I 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:15.800 mean we'll give you some good information here, give me 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:18.000 something to smile about, rather than every other time I'm 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:22.800 on some sort of cool Zone guest. Yeah. No, I 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:26.079 I think I will succeed at this, but you'll you'll 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:29.520 you'll find out because Jamie Do'll be inviting me to stuff. 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:33.200 Her stuff would make me. Jamie stuff is so positive, Jamie, 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:36.680 if you and funny, I did get to be uh. 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:41.560 I did get to be uh on one of the 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:45.760 did you do like the voice acting for it? I 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:47.720 did do one of them, so I'm jealous. I want 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:53.400 to do that. I got to beat jigs. Anyone who's listening, 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:56.920 go listen to Jamie Loftus podcast. Any of them would 0:00:56.920 --> 0:01:01.480 be sad secretly the other third cool Zone new podcast, 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:03.720 like she needs help with all the I don't know 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:06.640 how she can talk over all the awards she's won, 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:12.880 just like Uncle Scrooge jumping into the money pit, just 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:17.760 pull money. Yeah, anyway, I wish I had my Webby handy. 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:20.240 This would have an age time to hold it up. 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:22.279 I don't know how you eat all those hot dogs 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:26.000 in front of all those awards. Well. In speaking of which, 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:29.320 that other voice is our producer, Sophie, the Webby Award 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:33.200 winning Sophie Lecterman. Sophie, how are you doing? I'm laughing, 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:38.560 Dr Dre P Diddy a podcast. Jamie deserves all the credit, 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:40.399 though she's the ship, and so do both of you. 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:45.360 I'm just here sure awards. So he actually provides all 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:47.880 of the scripts and writes it all, um, and I 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:53.600 just voice it. Yeah, and all of Robert doesn't do anything. Yeah, no, 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:59.400 Robert proper, there's no other post. Yeah no, yeah, no, 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:05.320 Jamie and Jamie just just Margaret and Robert lazy. Yeah. Yeah. So, Sophie, 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:07.920 have you ever met anyone else named Sophie in your life? 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:10.040 I have a great story about this, actually, and it 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:13.799 is a point of childhood trauma. Um oh good, I'll 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:16.840 bring that back up. In the seventh grade. In the 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:19.720 seventh grade, there was another another Sofie. If you're listening 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:22.120 to this, yes I still remember this, Yes you still 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:24.760 It's scarred me. Thank you so much. Also, I hope 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:28.040 you are doing well because I do not hold resentment. Uh, 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:31.120 and you haven't seen in seventh grade this is exactly 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:34.440 there was. There was another Sophie in my class, and 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:37.680 the science teacher said, how how would you like me 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:40.480 to differentiate? Would you like me to call you Sophie? 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:43.200 Lu would you like me to call you? And she 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:48.640 goes and I quote to the entire class, well, that 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:53.559 is easy because I am the pretty Sophie. Oh no, 0:02:56.320 --> 0:03:00.600 did it work with my little saturn er self close. 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:05.440 I'm smart Sophie, and I've never been more ashamed and 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:10.680 and seen. Thank you, I've done that and you just 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:15.120 you just yes, and your way through that, way through it. 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:17.360 I'm the pretty one, You're like, I'm this, I'm the 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:21.200 smart one. My friend, my friend, my friend Tia handled 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:25.920 it for me after class, good shout out. She was like, 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:29.880 I'm gonna make you no longer to pretty Sofie, but 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:35.200 you know, yes, why are you asking me this horrible? Well, 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:37.520 I think that is how the Sophie we're gonna be 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:40.400 talking about would have handled it. But you're no longer 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:43.040 than pretty Sofie to the other Sofie. Probably today we're 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:46.080 going to talk about crime. Have you ever heard of crime. 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:51.120 I have. I'm pretty uh, pretty astute in crime. I 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:55.000 hear that it's got a lot of sodium, but when 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:59.160 you put it on your eggs, tastes amazing. Right, yeah, 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:05.000 that is wait, and that's salt. Oh yeah, no, I'm 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:10.280 mixing year. Yeah yeah yeah, yeah yeah. So today we're 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:12.880 gonna we're gonna talk about crime. And most of the 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:15.080 time when we talk about criminals on this show, they're 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:17.800 usually criminals because they're like trying to change the system 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:20.320 that they live in, which usually involves breaking the law 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:23.760 right most places, most times, throwing a bomb at the 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:29.160 czars for some unknowable reason. Illegal. Yeah, But today we're 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:32.279 gonna talk about crime for the sake of crime, or 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:36.400 rather crime for the sake of money, because today we're 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:38.680 gonna talk about a professional criminal who did lots of 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:42.000 criming and nineteenth century America, she was the Queen of 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:45.279 the Burglars, as she called herself in her memoir. She 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:47.520 was called the Queen of the underworld by her peers, 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:52.839 but we like to call her Sophie Sophie Listererman. No, wait, 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:58.599 Sophie Lyons, Sophie, I see what you did there? Thanks, 0:04:58.640 --> 0:04:59.880 I didn't even write that like that, and that was 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:05.240 the cuff. Let's go market, all right, we've got I've 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:08.560 got two disclaimers for you this week. Neither one is 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:10.720 a content warning. It's no worse than usual in terms 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:14.360 of the stuff that happens. So, first of all, usually okay, 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:16.560 I started this episode like I usually do, right, I 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:18.080 was like, Oh, I know a story that I think 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:20.800 is really cool because I've heard this story told by 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:22.440 people before, and I was like, this story is cool. 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:26.040 Sophie Lions is cool. And then I um started learning 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:30.200 more about Sophie Lyons because most of what I knew 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:32.839 before was what she had written about herself in which 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:35.840 she lionized herself. Of course, so if you do, you 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:38.640 get the joke. I liked it. It was very close 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:41.720 because lion isn what I was like, of course, Yeah, 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:45.520 thanks Margaret, thanks for explaining. Yeah, that's that's how you 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:48.240 make the joke extra funny. Um where no one gets it, 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:55.080 you just doubled down. So I did more research and 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:57.279 this week's episode is a bit more of a complicated 0:05:57.320 --> 0:05:59.520 person who did interest in stuff than a cool person 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:01.520 who did full stuff. But I think it's a story 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:06.520 worth telling. And secondly, prop. How do you feel about 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:09.000 the fact that white people love when white people do crime, 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:12.080 but create an entire system of mass incarceration that perpetuates 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:14.479 white supremacy and demonizes the black people who do the 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:20.520 same crimes. Yeah, man, this is tale as old as time. Great. 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:24.120 I'm so excited to hear about a story about a 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:27.440 person who's a hero doing the same exact ship that 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:30.599 got my family locked up for it. I cannot wait 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:36.600 to hear this again. Yeah. Um, and that's you know 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:40.240 what here? Okay? Side notes? Yeah. Yeah. One of my 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:45.400 buddies was asking about Blue Eyed Soul, right, and it 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:47.880 was like, did you know that was a thing? I 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:50.680 was like, Yeah, one of favorite voices of all time 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:54.520 Michael McDonald. I mean, that's the greatest, The greatest person 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:59.000 to impersonate is Michael McDonald's wonderful voice. He was like, Yo, 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:02.520 why is that of thing? Why do white people love 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:07.000 when white people do black stuff? YEA, Like, why y'all 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:10.040 love it? It's just always the most amazing thing to them. 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:13.400 And they're just like because they're kind of like it's 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:15.960 kind of a side note, but it's just like I 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:17.880 don't feel that way. I don't feel as strong as 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:20.040 he does about like this is absurd, Like why do 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:23.200 y'all just love because I'm like, well, you know, representation, 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:25.280 you like seeing, you know what I'm saying. And of 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:28.080 course you're gonna favor somebody that looks like you doing 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:30.080 something that you think is awesome that you didn't think 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:32.480 you could do. You know what I'm saying. I get it, 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:38.160 But it is there is a special thing about specifically 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:41.880 white people that like y'all love it when y'all do 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:44.680 the thing, Like it's never wrong when y'all do it, 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:47.600 and it's always better when y'all do it, Like it's 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:51.520 just what I really do. That is a thing to 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:55.760 think about. Yeah, no, I, um yeah. I Like I 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:59.280 started this episode and I'm like, oh, this is this 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:02.440 is about a white fucking criminal, And like I'm hoping 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:05.560 that by exploring this story, I'm hoping to like kind 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:08.160 of touch on and address some of that ship and 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:12.600 like I'm hoping to sort of lay open those hypocrisies. 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:17.240 But like I don't know. Um yeah. A friend of mine, Miriam, 0:08:17.280 --> 0:08:18.600 is a guest on this show a lot, and she 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:21.360 used to work at the Museum of the American Gangster 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:23.960 in New York City, and we talk a lot about 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:26.120 how people would come in and all all these white 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:29.280 tourists would come in and they'd be like, hell yeah, 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:32.559 all of these white gangsters who fucking machine gunned each other. Well, 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:34.480 at the same time, they're like freaked out by the 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:36.280 fact that they're in New York City. Where is the 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:43.680 city full of like crime, let's say, and in particular, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:45.600 while they're like going and being like, oh, but it's 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:48.440 cool that like, you know, this Irish guy was a 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:51.960 gangster or whatever, right, and in particular, people were excited 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:53.920 as long as it was someone of their own ethnicity 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:59.000 like Irish, Italian or Jewish, and and so you know, 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:01.480 here I am telling you story about German born Jewish 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:04.880 white crime lady. Um, but this isn't the gangster era. 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:07.440 And I actually think there's something kind of interesting to this. 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:10.000 And I'm wondering if by the end whether we'll have 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:13.880 like hit that is interesting. Yeah, that's dude. I'm now okay, 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:16.160 Like all jokes aside, Like I am interested in stuff 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:19.120 like this because I do. I do enjoy a good 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:22.800 peaky blinder, you know what I'm saying, Like I enjoy 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:29.640 seeing like ratchet white people. I do enjoy seeing that, 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:31.719 Like I think that like there I get. I do 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:33.960 get a little bit of joy from that because I 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:41.040 do feel like generally, like I like I understand them more, 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:44.120 you know what I mean, Like, I'm like I understand you, 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:46.320 you know, because most of time when people are being 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:49.680 a ratchet, it's a crime of survival, like haint no food, 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:52.640 so I'm gonna get mine, you know what I mean, 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:55.880 Like I get that, you know what I mean. Yeah, Yeah, 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:57.640 And that's and that's what's kind of interesting me about 0:09:57.640 --> 0:10:00.840 this is because this pre uh, this pre mafia era 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:04.800 crime was like people just trying to figure out how 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:07.600 to fucking get by, as compared to like necessarily like 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:10.240 building empires. There's a little bit of like empire building 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:12.720 and ship in this, but but not to the same 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:15.480 degree that you hit in the like Prohibition era. Um. 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:17.319 And then actually Sophie saw a little bit of the 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:20.280 Prohibition era and hated it because she was like, now 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:23.360 you all robbed poor people and kill people. This sucks 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:28.280 like this some this some bullshit. Yeah we're not hungry 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:33.000 no more. Man, you ain't got to do this to people. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:35.120 So we're gonna talk about the Gilded Age of America 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:37.600 the second half of the nineteenth century, which means talking 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:39.960 about the era that is ruled by crime, but not 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:44.200 the kind of crime we're talking about today. Yeah, corporate Yeah, Okay, Yeah, 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:46.559 you got And so I wanna just to like, I 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:48.440 feel like it's if you're going to talk about someone 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:50.319 who like robbed a bunch of ship, I feel like 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:52.120 it's worth pointing out some of the people who robbed 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:54.680 a lot of ship that are at the time the 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:58.040 robber barons. Okay, So the Transcontinental Railroad was completed in 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:01.360 eighteen sixty nine. By nine seventy two, it came out 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:03.880 that the Union Pacific had just created shell companies and 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:07.120 like robbed the US government and taxpayers about a billion 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:10.120 dollars in today's money. They just and then just bribed 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:13.960 the government to let them keep robbing everyone. Right, So 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:16.600 this is the air of what's fucking happening. Um, And 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:19.000 this wasn't the soul cause of the Panic of eighteen 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:21.000 seventy three, but it's actually part of it. This big 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:23.600 depression that happened. It fox up the U. S economy, 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:26.319 It hits small farmers and small shops and poor people 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:29.240 like just way more than hits big corporations. This might 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:31.280 be familiar to people who are listening now, or you 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:32.839 have a depression where suddenly, even though you're in the 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:34.520 middle of the depression, the rich keep getting richer and 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:39.400 all the economic numbers start creeping up. Yeah, unemployment hit 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:44.360 and Vanderbilt was the first guy who actually got called 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:47.880 a Robert Baron. Basically, everyone found ways to take public money, 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:51.080 taxpayer money, and use it to fund private enterprise. And 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:54.160 then one fun thing is that they used the Fourteenth Amendment, 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:57.120 which was designed to um help people who are recently 0:11:57.120 --> 0:12:00.319 freed from slavery, they used it to shield corporate rations 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:06.000 from government scrutiny. M hmmm, venting a lot of inventing 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:08.559 of culture here. Huh. Yeah, some ship that we are 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:12.720 definitely still dealing with. Yes, this is the culture in 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:17.760 which Sophie Lyons is working Sophie van Elkin Lions, which 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:20.200 is interesting too because so van Elkin is actually also 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:24.120 Sophie the producer Sophie Lichterman, it's actually her middle name 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:29.240 as well as van Elkin. Word ah, Sophie is making 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:31.640 a face that implies that she doesn't want me to 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:37.480 tell people the truth about her name. No, okay, okay, 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:46.880 it is a ray of sunshine. So Sophie, are Sophie 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:53.920 um not smart? Sophie, I don't know. Sophie Lyons. Sophy 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:56.040 Lyons used a couple of different aliases here and there, 0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:58.200 just a couple. Here's a list of some of them. 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:03.840 Louis Is Andress, Mrs f H. Brody, Ella Drama, Sophia 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:07.600 d Varney, Rose, Divine, Sarah English, Julia Kelso, Sophie Levy, 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:12.200 Susan Lockwood, Katel Angie, Kate la Anger, Sophie Lawrence, Kate Lucas, 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:16.600 s E. Lucas, Sarah Lyons, Sophia Monikey, Fannie Owen, Sarah Richardson, 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:20.120 Harriet Smith, Jane Smith, Sarah Smith, Louisa Sylvan, Mary Walton, 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:27.199 Katherine Williams, and Kate Wilson. Yo. I respect that so much. 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:30.360 That is hard. What was the second name? I think 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:31.800 the second name is the one that stuck with me. 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:36.960 Mrs f H. Brody, Mrs f HS Brody. That is great. 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:39.679 That is the most That is a perfect, like eighteen 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:43.400 hundreds name, and it's just oh, it's just f H. Brody. 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:45.760 I love it. You don't even know what f H 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:49.120 stands for. You're just the arrested me. You're not exact 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:51.319 you know what I'm saying. What's your name? F H. Brody? 0:13:51.840 --> 0:14:00.439 Know I'm saying, which means funk a hol? I don't know, 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.440 Like just you know, I love it, f H Brody. 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:09.480 My name is H paper Stacks. Yeah, yeah, totally. It 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:14.599 sounds like a woutang name. Yeah. So. So, Sophie was 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:18.320 born in Germany and she was born to a wandering 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:21.360 Jewish merchant. Jews weren't allowed to be citizens in Germany 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:24.560 at the time, so she was a resident alien. Her 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:26.680 dad and her some of her siblings were like, all right, 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:30.040 fuck this, and you know, rising anti Semitism as always, 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:32.840 they go to the States. They don't have enough money 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:34.920 to bring the whole family. So I think it's like 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:36.880 her dad and like, I think it's her brothers who 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.880 are old enough to work. Basically, they go and then 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.040 they start trying to get some money. And then when 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:44.760 she's seven, her and her siblings and some of her 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:47.360 cousins come over on the next boat that they can 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:52.880 and they arrive on December eighteen fifty five. She turns 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:56.080 eight on the voyage and she shows up sucking, starving 0:14:56.200 --> 0:15:00.280 and poor and then was immediately granted US citizenship, at 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:02.480 least according to one book. Other sources say it took 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:06.840 them two years for citizens But either way, it's really 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:08.840 funny to me because there's all of this talk about 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:12.480 how um, there's absolutely some truth to the fact that, 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:15.880 like ethnic whites weren't white in nineteenth century America, but 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:19.320 there's also some complete bullshit to that because free the 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:22.560 the law about who can immigrate freely was free white 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:25.840 people can come immigrant legally without restriction, and that included 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:29.480 these people who, like, you know, the Irish, Italian and 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:32.000 Jews and stuff, who were like sort of considered not white, 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:34.960 but we're still white enough to get fucking citizenship. Yeah, 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:40.720 Whitewood an astrict, Yeah yeah, totally yeah, Yeah, I mean 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:43.000 it still wasn't fucking easy for him. They live in 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:45.840 a neighborhood called Little Germany and a row home subdivided 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:49.200 to hold several families per floor, so it's like probably 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:51.520 her and like fucking six or seven siblings living in 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:55.240 one goddamn room in a row home. There's no indoor plumbing, 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:58.640 there's a chamber pot or maybe an outhouse water who 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:00.480 was brought in from the yard. They had to walk 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:02.360 like a mile to go take a bath at like 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.720 a public bath house, so they probably didn't. She was 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:08.760 out that much disgusting. I see why you choose not 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.920 to bathe if you're just like, look, man, like you 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:14.560 want to get in this this gray water that the 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:18.360 whole city was in. Like Nam Also, I would still 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:22.600 like to reiterate um when we did the Potato Blight 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:26.920 with on the Bastards podcast that like, I really feel 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:32.080 like the Irish missed the boat when because y'alls, like 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:36.840 y'all's race was it was up for grabs, like you 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:40.200 could have you could have been drafted as a person 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:42.520 of color, you know what I'm saying. And I'm like, 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:46.480 y'all could have since it was up for debate, you know, 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:49.720 since since whiteness was like I we don't know about y'all, 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:51.840 you know what I'm saying. I'm like, I wish I 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:54.720 would have just thought about what whiteness did to you 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:57.840 and been like, you know what, just think about how 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:01.160 different history would be if the who were like, nah, 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:05.800 wholl cool, you know, keep it, we don't need it. 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:11.800 I fucking wish jus fucking wish being like oh, instead 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:15.080 like learning English, the language of the people who are 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:16.920 the reason that we had to flee our country, and 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:19.920 like yeah, yeah, I know, like like my my grandmother 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:23.000 didn't didn't learning but sorry, didn't learn Irish even though 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:24.600 her parents spoke Irish because they were like, no, you 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:28.720 gotta be a white American, you know. But I want 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:30.520 you to know that Sophie Lyons was not a working 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:34.399 class family. They were very much Sophie has a quote, 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:37.080 I don't belong to the working class. I belonged to 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:41.719 the criminal class. So if that's her family and her 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:44.959 love with the streets, yeah, her upbringing is a bit 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:47.600 of a mystery because she lies constantly because she's a 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:51.040 con artist. She writes about it, but she lied about it, 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:52.800 and so but she grew up with her father, and 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:56.160 then either her mother or her stepmother, and her real 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:58.560 mother might have died early and her father might have remarried. 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:02.440 Either way, every one of the families doing crime. In 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.240 her telling of it, she steals her first pocketbook at six, 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:07.760 although different source claims three. But I don't know whatever, 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:11.280 and she gets punished harshly by her family if she 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:13.440 refuses to steal. This is the part I actually don't 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:17.080 necessarily trust, because she uses this in court constantly. She's like, 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:20.640 I was forced into crime by my evil, wicked stepmother. 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:25.000 Oh my god, my mama made me. Yeah, and so 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:28.560 so her quote about this. All during my early childhood, 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:30.919 I did little but steal and was never sent to school. 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:33.239 I did not learn to read or write until its 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:36.080 years old. If my stepmother brought me to a place 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:38.480 where many persons congregated and I was slow in getting 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:41.320 pocketbooks and other articles, she would stick a pin into 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:44.920 my arm to remind me that I must be more industrious. Yeah, 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:49.200 she's like making like that's movie lore. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:54.119 And you know what else is movie lower prop? It's adds. 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:59.320 I don't actually know how their movie luwer. Um, okay, Well, 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:03.359 we are sponsored by ads, and movies aren't sponsored by ads, 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:06.440 so we actually we are not really related in that way. Yeah, 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:10.960 what movies have ads? This just other movies. That's true, 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:13.720 isn't there? That's true. That's a good point. And I 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:16.000 suspect that we're Depending on where you're listening, most of 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:19.159 your ads are going to be for other podcasts usually, 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:27.640 So here are some of those ads. Let's do it. Okay, 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:29.680 we're back and we're talking about Sophie Lyons in the 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:34.399 criminal class and she claims once again, this is her 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:36.399 claim the first time. One of her first memories is 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:38.879 getting arrested and it was better than home because the 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:42.920 cops gave her candy and let her play. Oh my god. Yeah, yeah, 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:45.080 I'm not. I'm not convinced by that one. But who 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:48.440 knows of all of her numerous siblings, only her and 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:51.760 one other one made it to adulthood because it's the 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:56.760 nineteenth century, and that sibling was never convicted of a crime, 0:19:56.840 --> 0:20:01.000 lived a nice long life. And then in eighteen fifty nine, 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:03.119 she's like twelve years old and she starts seeing how 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:06.760 corrupt the fucking criminal justice system is. Her dad, Jacob, 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:10.080 is arrested on perjury charges, which was just blackmail by 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:12.520 the cops because he had been arrested on some bullshit 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:15.399 charge and he'd gone and complained to the police commissioners. 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.560 He was like, hey, cops has tried to blackmail me. 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:22.280 And so the cops then, including the police commissioners he 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:25.119 had just talked to, turned around and blackmailed him and 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:29.480 accused him of perjury. Yeah, you're obviously lying unless you 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:32.280 pay me this money. Exactly. It was that he refused 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:35.480 to pay a bribe, and so that's like, that's that's 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:38.760 definitely true. Yeah, yeah, And that's like some of this 0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:41.200 like oh, it's this criminal family and I'm like, yeah, 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:44.080 they they wouldn't fucking pay bribes to the cops, so 0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:47.440 they keep getting arrested, Like like, at what point is 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:52.160 society making the criminal whatever? Totally, the cops are fucking 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:54.080 in on all of this crime that's happening in the 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:57.879 nineteenth century. Only the nineteenth century that has stopped the 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:02.400 criminal justice system works at expertly. Now, that's not true. 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:05.679 Her dad stayed mostly free for a while. He got 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:07.840 the name Old Elkin the Fence, and he ran a 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:11.560 clothing store where he fenced stolen objects. And at one 0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:13.159 point he signed up to fight in the Civil War. 0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:14.920 But he did it like right before the war ended 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:19.719 because he just wanted the recruitment bonus. Yeah, he was like, oh, 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:21.600 I think this war is almost over, I'll do it. 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:26.000 Absolutely brilliant And in her book, Sophie paints a story 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:27.919 of how she had an evil, wicked step mom who, 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:29.879 as soon as her noble dad was off fighting the 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:32.720 noble war turned around and like corrupted her. But this 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:35.159 is just entirely a lie. Her dad was like barely 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:38.280 gone for either days or months, but not not very long. 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:41.320 Her mom was a crook. She spent at least three 0:21:41.480 --> 0:21:44.680 terms in Sing Sing prison, and one time she was 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:47.879 arrested because she she stole some diamond jewelry, right, and 0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:50.080 so she fenced it at a pawn shop like you do. 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:52.880 And then she was thinking to herself, man, I wonder 0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:55.400 whether there's anything I can steal. I know where there's 0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:58.360 some diamond jewelry. So she went back to the pawn shop. 0:21:58.440 --> 0:22:00.800 She just sold the stuff too, stole it from them, 0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:04.960 and then sold it to another poun shop, which would well, 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:07.879 except she got caught. Dang it. I was like, that's pretty, 0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:11.639 that's bold. That's a bold I know. He was like, yo, 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:14.160 ain't you the lady that was just here too minutes? Yeah? 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:15.359 I mean like, how can I see that one that 0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:19.360 looks interesting to me? And then just just bolts out 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:26.240 the doors like yeah, totally alright right here. And when 0:22:26.320 --> 0:22:32.119 she dropped off jewelry, her name, yeah, hr paper Stacks. 0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:36.600 So when Sophie was twelve, she gets arrested for burglary 0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:39.760 and she gets sent to a juvenile detention center. It's 0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:43.120