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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Margaret Killjoy and with me today is prop

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Speaker 1: most of the only other cool Zone media podcast with politics.

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Speaker 1: Probably what up? Talk to me nice, Margaret. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean we'll give you some good information here, give me

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Speaker 1: something to smile about, rather than every other time I'm

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Speaker 1: on some sort of cool Zone guest. Yeah. No, I

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Speaker 1: I think I will succeed at this, but you'll you'll

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Speaker 1: you'll find out because Jamie Do'll be inviting me to stuff.

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Speaker 1: Her stuff would make me. Jamie stuff is so positive, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: if you and funny, I did get to be uh.

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Speaker 1: I did get to be uh on one of the

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Speaker 1: did you do like the voice acting for it? I

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Speaker 1: did do one of them, so I'm jealous. I want

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Speaker 1: to do that. I got to beat jigs. Anyone who's listening,

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Speaker 1: go listen to Jamie Loftus podcast. Any of them would

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Speaker 1: be sad secretly the other third cool Zone new podcast,

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Speaker 1: like she needs help with all the I don't know

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Speaker 1: how she can talk over all the awards she's won,

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Speaker 1: just like Uncle Scrooge jumping into the money pit, just

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Speaker 1: pull money. Yeah, anyway, I wish I had my Webby handy.

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Speaker 1: This would have an age time to hold it up.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how you eat all those hot dogs

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Speaker 1: in front of all those awards. Well. In speaking of which,

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Speaker 1: that other voice is our producer, Sophie, the Webby Award

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Speaker 1: winning Sophie Lecterman. Sophie, how are you doing? I'm laughing,

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Speaker 1: Dr Dre P Diddy a podcast. Jamie deserves all the credit,

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Speaker 1: though she's the ship, and so do both of you.

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Speaker 1: I'm just here sure awards. So he actually provides all

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Speaker 1: of the scripts and writes it all, um, and I

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Speaker 1: just voice it. Yeah, and all of Robert doesn't do anything. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: Robert proper, there's no other post. Yeah no, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: Jamie and Jamie just just Margaret and Robert lazy. Yeah. Yeah. So, Sophie,

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Speaker 1: have you ever met anyone else named Sophie in your life?

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Speaker 1: I have a great story about this, actually, and it

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Speaker 1: is a point of childhood trauma. Um oh good, I'll

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Speaker 1: bring that back up. In the seventh grade. In the

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Speaker 1: seventh grade, there was another another Sofie. If you're listening

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Speaker 1: to this, yes I still remember this, Yes you still

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Speaker 1: It's scarred me. Thank you so much. Also, I hope

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Speaker 1: you are doing well because I do not hold resentment. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and you haven't seen in seventh grade this is exactly

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Speaker 1: there was. There was another Sophie in my class, and

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Speaker 1: the science teacher said, how how would you like me

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Speaker 1: to differentiate? Would you like me to call you Sophie?

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Speaker 1: Lu would you like me to call you? And she

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Speaker 1: goes and I quote to the entire class, well, that

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Speaker 1: is easy because I am the pretty Sophie. Oh no,

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Speaker 1: did it work with my little saturn er self close.

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Speaker 1: I'm smart Sophie, and I've never been more ashamed and

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Speaker 1: and seen. Thank you, I've done that and you just

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Speaker 1: you just yes, and your way through that, way through it.

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Speaker 1: I'm the pretty one, You're like, I'm this, I'm the

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Speaker 1: smart one. My friend, my friend, my friend Tia handled

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Speaker 1: it for me after class, good shout out. She was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna make you no longer to pretty Sofie, but

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Speaker 1: you know, yes, why are you asking me this horrible? Well,

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Speaker 1: I think that is how the Sophie we're gonna be

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Speaker 1: talking about would have handled it. But you're no longer

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Speaker 1: than pretty Sofie to the other Sofie. Probably today we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about crime. Have you ever heard of crime.

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Speaker 1: I have. I'm pretty uh, pretty astute in crime. I

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Speaker 1: hear that it's got a lot of sodium, but when

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Speaker 1: you put it on your eggs, tastes amazing. Right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that is wait, and that's salt. Oh yeah, no, I'm

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Speaker 1: mixing year. Yeah yeah yeah, yeah yeah. So today we're

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Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna talk about crime. And most of the

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Speaker 1: time when we talk about criminals on this show, they're

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Speaker 1: usually criminals because they're like trying to change the system

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Speaker 1: that they live in, which usually involves breaking the law

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Speaker 1: right most places, most times, throwing a bomb at the

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Speaker 1: czars for some unknowable reason. Illegal. Yeah, But today we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about crime for the sake of crime, or

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Speaker 1: rather crime for the sake of money, because today we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about a professional criminal who did lots of

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Speaker 1: criming and nineteenth century America, she was the Queen of

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Speaker 1: the Burglars, as she called herself in her memoir. She

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Speaker 1: was called the Queen of the underworld by her peers,

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Speaker 1: but we like to call her Sophie Sophie Listererman. No, wait,

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Speaker 1: Sophie Lyons, Sophie, I see what you did there? Thanks,

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Speaker 1: I didn't even write that like that, and that was

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Speaker 1: the cuff. Let's go market, all right, we've got I've

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Speaker 1: got two disclaimers for you this week. Neither one is

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Speaker 1: a content warning. It's no worse than usual in terms

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Speaker 1: of the stuff that happens. So, first of all, usually okay,

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Speaker 1: I started this episode like I usually do, right, I

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Speaker 1: was like, Oh, I know a story that I think

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Speaker 1: is really cool because I've heard this story told by

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Speaker 1: people before, and I was like, this story is cool.

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Speaker 1: Sophie Lions is cool. And then I um started learning

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Speaker 1: more about Sophie Lyons because most of what I knew

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Speaker 1: before was what she had written about herself in which

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Speaker 1: she lionized herself. Of course, so if you do, you

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Speaker 1: get the joke. I liked it. It was very close

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Speaker 1: because lion isn what I was like, of course, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: thanks Margaret, thanks for explaining. Yeah, that's that's how you

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Speaker 1: make the joke extra funny. Um where no one gets it,

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Speaker 1: you just doubled down. So I did more research and

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Speaker 1: this week's episode is a bit more of a complicated

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Speaker 1: person who did interest in stuff than a cool person

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Speaker 1: who did full stuff. But I think it's a story

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Speaker 1: worth telling. And secondly, prop. How do you feel about

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Speaker 1: the fact that white people love when white people do crime,

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Speaker 1: but create an entire system of mass incarceration that perpetuates

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Speaker 1: white supremacy and demonizes the black people who do the

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Speaker 1: same crimes. Yeah, man, this is tale as old as time. Great.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited to hear about a story about a

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Speaker 1: person who's a hero doing the same exact ship that

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Speaker 1: got my family locked up for it. I cannot wait

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Speaker 1: to hear this again. Yeah. Um, and that's you know

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Speaker 1: what here? Okay? Side notes? Yeah. Yeah. One of my

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Speaker 1: buddies was asking about Blue Eyed Soul, right, and it

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Speaker 1: was like, did you know that was a thing? I

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Speaker 1: was like, Yeah, one of favorite voices of all time

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Speaker 1: Michael McDonald. I mean, that's the greatest, The greatest person

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Speaker 1: to impersonate is Michael McDonald's wonderful voice. He was like, Yo,

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Speaker 1: why is that of thing? Why do white people love

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Speaker 1: when white people do black stuff? YEA, Like, why y'all

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Speaker 1: love it? It's just always the most amazing thing to them.

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Speaker 1: And they're just like because they're kind of like it's

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Speaker 1: kind of a side note, but it's just like I

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Speaker 1: don't feel that way. I don't feel as strong as

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Speaker 1: he does about like this is absurd, Like why do

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Speaker 1: y'all just love because I'm like, well, you know, representation,

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Speaker 1: you like seeing, you know what I'm saying. And of

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Speaker 1: course you're gonna favor somebody that looks like you doing

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Speaker 1: something that you think is awesome that you didn't think

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Speaker 1: you could do. You know what I'm saying. I get it,

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Speaker 1: But it is there is a special thing about specifically

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Speaker 1: white people that like y'all love it when y'all do

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Speaker 1: the thing, Like it's never wrong when y'all do it,

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Speaker 1: and it's always better when y'all do it, Like it's

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Speaker 1: just what I really do. That is a thing to

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Speaker 1: think about. Yeah, no, I, um yeah. I Like I

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Speaker 1: started this episode and I'm like, oh, this is this

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Speaker 1: is about a white fucking criminal, And like I'm hoping

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Speaker 1: that by exploring this story, I'm hoping to like kind

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Speaker 1: of touch on and address some of that ship and

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Speaker 1: like I'm hoping to sort of lay open those hypocrisies.

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Speaker 1: But like I don't know. Um yeah. A friend of mine, Miriam,

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Speaker 1: is a guest on this show a lot, and she

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Speaker 1: used to work at the Museum of the American Gangster

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Speaker 1: in New York City, and we talk a lot about

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Speaker 1: how people would come in and all all these white

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Speaker 1: tourists would come in and they'd be like, hell yeah,

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Speaker 1: all of these white gangsters who fucking machine gunned each other. Well,

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Speaker 1: at the same time, they're like freaked out by the

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Speaker 1: fact that they're in New York City. Where is the

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Speaker 1: city full of like crime, let's say, and in particular, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: while they're like going and being like, oh, but it's

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Speaker 1: cool that like, you know, this Irish guy was a

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Speaker 1: gangster or whatever, right, and in particular, people were excited

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Speaker 1: as long as it was someone of their own ethnicity

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Speaker 1: like Irish, Italian or Jewish, and and so you know,

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Speaker 1: here I am telling you story about German born Jewish

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Speaker 1: white crime lady. Um, but this isn't the gangster era.

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Speaker 1: And I actually think there's something kind of interesting to this.

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Speaker 1: And I'm wondering if by the end whether we'll have

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Speaker 1: like hit that is interesting. Yeah, that's dude. I'm now okay,

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Speaker 1: Like all jokes aside, Like I am interested in stuff

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Speaker 1: like this because I do. I do enjoy a good

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Speaker 1: peaky blinder, you know what I'm saying, Like I enjoy

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Speaker 1: seeing like ratchet white people. I do enjoy seeing that,

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Speaker 1: Like I think that like there I get. I do

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Speaker 1: get a little bit of joy from that because I

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Speaker 1: do feel like generally, like I like I understand them more,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, I'm like I understand you,

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Speaker 1: you know, because most of time when people are being

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Speaker 1: a ratchet, it's a crime of survival, like haint no food,

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Speaker 1: so I'm gonna get mine, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: Like I get that, you know what I mean. Yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And that's and that's what's kind of interesting me about

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Speaker 1: this is because this pre uh, this pre mafia era

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Speaker 1: crime was like people just trying to figure out how

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Speaker 1: to fucking get by, as compared to like necessarily like

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Speaker 1: building empires. There's a little bit of like empire building

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Speaker 1: and ship in this, but but not to the same

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Speaker 1: degree that you hit in the like Prohibition era. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then actually Sophie saw a little bit of the

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Speaker 1: Prohibition era and hated it because she was like, now

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Speaker 1: you all robbed poor people and kill people. This sucks

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Speaker 1: like this some this some bullshit. Yeah we're not hungry

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Speaker 1: no more. Man, you ain't got to do this to people. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna talk about the Gilded Age of America

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Speaker 1: the second half of the nineteenth century, which means talking

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Speaker 1: about the era that is ruled by crime, but not

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Speaker 1: the kind of crime we're talking about today. Yeah, corporate Yeah, Okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you got And so I wanna just to like, I

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Speaker 1: feel like it's if you're going to talk about someone

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Speaker 1: who like robbed a bunch of ship, I feel like

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Speaker 1: it's worth pointing out some of the people who robbed

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Speaker 1: a lot of ship that are at the time the

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Speaker 1: robber barons. Okay, So the Transcontinental Railroad was completed in

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Speaker 1: eighteen sixty nine. By nine seventy two, it came out

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Speaker 1: that the Union Pacific had just created shell companies and

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Speaker 1: like robbed the US government and taxpayers about a billion

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Speaker 1: dollars in today's money. They just and then just bribed

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Speaker 1: the government to let them keep robbing everyone. Right, So

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Speaker 1: this is the air of what's fucking happening. Um, And

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Speaker 1: this wasn't the soul cause of the Panic of eighteen

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Speaker 1: seventy three, but it's actually part of it. This big

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Speaker 1: depression that happened. It fox up the U. S economy,

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Speaker 1: It hits small farmers and small shops and poor people

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Speaker 1: like just way more than hits big corporations. This might

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Speaker 1: be familiar to people who are listening now, or you

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Speaker 1: have a depression where suddenly, even though you're in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the depression, the rich keep getting richer and

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Speaker 1: all the economic numbers start creeping up. Yeah, unemployment hit

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Speaker 1: and Vanderbilt was the first guy who actually got called

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Speaker 1: a Robert Baron. Basically, everyone found ways to take public money,

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Speaker 1: taxpayer money, and use it to fund private enterprise. And

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Speaker 1: then one fun thing is that they used the Fourteenth Amendment,

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Speaker 1: which was designed to um help people who are recently

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Speaker 1: freed from slavery, they used it to shield corporate rations

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Speaker 1: from government scrutiny. M hmmm, venting a lot of inventing

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Speaker 1: of culture here. Huh. Yeah, some ship that we are

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Speaker 1: definitely still dealing with. Yes, this is the culture in

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Speaker 1: which Sophie Lyons is working Sophie van Elkin Lions, which

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Speaker 1: is interesting too because so van Elkin is actually also

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Speaker 1: Sophie the producer Sophie Lichterman, it's actually her middle name

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Speaker 1: as well as van Elkin. Word ah, Sophie is making

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Speaker 1: a face that implies that she doesn't want me to

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Speaker 1: tell people the truth about her name. No, okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: it is a ray of sunshine. So Sophie, are Sophie

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Speaker 1: um not smart? Sophie, I don't know. Sophie Lyons. Sophy

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Speaker 1: Lyons used a couple of different aliases here and there,

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Speaker 1: just a couple. Here's a list of some of them.

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Speaker 1: Louis Is Andress, Mrs f H. Brody, Ella Drama, Sophia

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Speaker 1: d Varney, Rose, Divine, Sarah English, Julia Kelso, Sophie Levy,

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Speaker 1: Susan Lockwood, Katel Angie, Kate la Anger, Sophie Lawrence, Kate Lucas,

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Speaker 1: s E. Lucas, Sarah Lyons, Sophia Monikey, Fannie Owen, Sarah Richardson,

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Speaker 1: Harriet Smith, Jane Smith, Sarah Smith, Louisa Sylvan, Mary Walton,

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Speaker 1: Katherine Williams, and Kate Wilson. Yo. I respect that so much.

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Speaker 1: That is hard. What was the second name? I think

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Speaker 1: the second name is the one that stuck with me.

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Speaker 1: Mrs f H. Brody, Mrs f HS Brody. That is great.

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Speaker 1: That is the most That is a perfect, like eighteen

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Speaker 1: hundreds name, and it's just oh, it's just f H. Brody.

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Speaker 1: I love it. You don't even know what f H

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Speaker 1: stands for. You're just the arrested me. You're not exact

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. What's your name? F H. Brody?

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Speaker 1: Know I'm saying, which means funk a hol? I don't know,

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Speaker 1: Like just you know, I love it, f H Brody.

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Speaker 1: My name is H paper Stacks. Yeah, yeah, totally. It

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Speaker 1: sounds like a woutang name. Yeah. So. So, Sophie was

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Speaker 1: born in Germany and she was born to a wandering

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Speaker 1: Jewish merchant. Jews weren't allowed to be citizens in Germany

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Speaker 1: at the time, so she was a resident alien. Her

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Speaker 1: dad and her some of her siblings were like, all right,

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Speaker 1: fuck this, and you know, rising anti Semitism as always,

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Speaker 1: they go to the States. They don't have enough money

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Speaker 1: to bring the whole family. So I think it's like

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Speaker 1: her dad and like, I think it's her brothers who

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Speaker 1: are old enough to work. Basically, they go and then

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Speaker 1: they start trying to get some money. And then when

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Speaker 1: she's seven, her and her siblings and some of her

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Speaker 1: cousins come over on the next boat that they can

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Speaker 1: and they arrive on December eighteen fifty five. She turns

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Speaker 1: eight on the voyage and she shows up sucking, starving

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Speaker 1: and poor and then was immediately granted US citizenship, at

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Speaker 1: least according to one book. Other sources say it took

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Speaker 1: them two years for citizens But either way, it's really

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Speaker 1: funny to me because there's all of this talk about

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Speaker 1: how um, there's absolutely some truth to the fact that,

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Speaker 1: like ethnic whites weren't white in nineteenth century America, but

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Speaker 1: there's also some complete bullshit to that because free the

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Speaker 1: the law about who can immigrate freely was free white

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Speaker 1: people can come immigrant legally without restriction, and that included

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Speaker 1: these people who, like, you know, the Irish, Italian and

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Speaker 1: Jews and stuff, who were like sort of considered not white,

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Speaker 1: but we're still white enough to get fucking citizenship. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Whitewood an astrict, Yeah yeah, totally yeah, Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: it still wasn't fucking easy for him. They live in

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Speaker 1: a neighborhood called Little Germany and a row home subdivided

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Speaker 1: to hold several families per floor, so it's like probably

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Speaker 1: her and like fucking six or seven siblings living in

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Speaker 1: one goddamn room in a row home. There's no indoor plumbing,

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Speaker 1: there's a chamber pot or maybe an outhouse water who

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Speaker 1: was brought in from the yard. They had to walk

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Speaker 1: like a mile to go take a bath at like

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Speaker 1: a public bath house, so they probably didn't. She was

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Speaker 1: out that much disgusting. I see why you choose not

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Speaker 1: to bathe if you're just like, look, man, like you

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Speaker 1: want to get in this this gray water that the

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Speaker 1: whole city was in. Like Nam Also, I would still

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Speaker 1: like to reiterate um when we did the Potato Blight

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Speaker 1: with on the Bastards podcast that like, I really feel

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Speaker 1: like the Irish missed the boat when because y'alls, like

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Speaker 1: y'all's race was it was up for grabs, like you

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Speaker 1: could have you could have been drafted as a person

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Speaker 1: of color, you know what I'm saying. And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: y'all could have since it was up for debate, you know,

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Speaker 1: since since whiteness was like I we don't know about y'all,

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. I'm like, I wish I

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Speaker 1: would have just thought about what whiteness did to you

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Speaker 1: and been like, you know what, just think about how

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Speaker 1: different history would be if the who were like, nah,

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Speaker 1: wholl cool, you know, keep it, we don't need it.

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Speaker 1: I fucking wish jus fucking wish being like oh, instead

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Speaker 1: like learning English, the language of the people who are

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Speaker 1: the reason that we had to flee our country, and

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Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, I know, like like my my grandmother

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Speaker 1: didn't didn't learning but sorry, didn't learn Irish even though

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Speaker 1: her parents spoke Irish because they were like, no, you

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Speaker 1: gotta be a white American, you know. But I want

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Speaker 1: you to know that Sophie Lyons was not a working

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Speaker 1: class family. They were very much Sophie has a quote,

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Speaker 1: I don't belong to the working class. I belonged to

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Speaker 1: the criminal class. So if that's her family and her

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Speaker 1: love with the streets, yeah, her upbringing is a bit

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Speaker 1: of a mystery because she lies constantly because she's a

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Speaker 1: con artist. She writes about it, but she lied about it,

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Speaker 1: and so but she grew up with her father, and

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Speaker 1: then either her mother or her stepmother, and her real

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Speaker 1: mother might have died early and her father might have remarried.

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Speaker 1: Either way, every one of the families doing crime. In

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Speaker 1: her telling of it, she steals her first pocketbook at six,

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Speaker 1: although different source claims three. But I don't know whatever,

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Speaker 1: and she gets punished harshly by her family if she

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Speaker 1: refuses to steal. This is the part I actually don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily trust, because she uses this in court constantly. She's like,

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Speaker 1: I was forced into crime by my evil, wicked stepmother.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, my mama made me. Yeah, and so

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Speaker 1: so her quote about this. All during my early childhood,

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Speaker 1: I did little but steal and was never sent to school.

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Speaker 1: I did not learn to read or write until its

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Speaker 1: years old. If my stepmother brought me to a place

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Speaker 1: where many persons congregated and I was slow in getting

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Speaker 1: pocketbooks and other articles, she would stick a pin into

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Speaker 1: my arm to remind me that I must be more industrious. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she's like making like that's movie lore. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: And you know what else is movie lower prop? It's adds.

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Speaker 1: I don't actually know how their movie luwer. Um, okay, Well,

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Speaker 1: we are sponsored by ads, and movies aren't sponsored by ads,

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Speaker 1: so we actually we are not really related in that way. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what movies have ads? This just other movies. That's true,

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Speaker 1: isn't there? That's true. That's a good point. And I

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Speaker 1: suspect that we're Depending on where you're listening, most of

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Speaker 1: your ads are going to be for other podcasts usually,

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Speaker 1: So here are some of those ads. Let's do it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we're back and we're talking about Sophie Lyons in the

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Speaker 1: criminal class and she claims once again, this is her

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Speaker 1: claim the first time. One of her first memories is

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Speaker 1: getting arrested and it was better than home because the

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Speaker 1: cops gave her candy and let her play. Oh my god. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not convinced by that one. But who

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Speaker 1: knows of all of her numerous siblings, only her and

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Speaker 1: one other one made it to adulthood because it's the

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Speaker 1: nineteenth century, and that sibling was never convicted of a crime,

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Speaker 1: lived a nice long life. And then in eighteen fifty nine,

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Speaker 1: she's like twelve years old and she starts seeing how

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Speaker 1: corrupt the fucking criminal justice system is. Her dad, Jacob,

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Speaker 1: is arrested on perjury charges, which was just blackmail by

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Speaker 1: the cops because he had been arrested on some bullshit

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Speaker 1: charge and he'd gone and complained to the police commissioners.

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Speaker 1: He was like, hey, cops has tried to blackmail me.

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Speaker 1: And so the cops then, including the police commissioners he

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Speaker 1: had just talked to, turned around and blackmailed him and

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Speaker 1: accused him of perjury. Yeah, you're obviously lying unless you

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Speaker 1: pay me this money. Exactly. It was that he refused

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Speaker 1: to pay a bribe, and so that's like, that's that's

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Speaker 1: definitely true. Yeah, yeah, And that's like some of this

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Speaker 1: like oh, it's this criminal family and I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they they wouldn't fucking pay bribes to the cops, so

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Speaker 1: they keep getting arrested, Like like, at what point is

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Speaker 1: society making the criminal whatever? Totally, the cops are fucking

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Speaker 1: in on all of this crime that's happening in the

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Speaker 1: nineteenth century. Only the nineteenth century that has stopped the

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Speaker 1: criminal justice system works at expertly. Now, that's not true.

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Speaker 1: Her dad stayed mostly free for a while. He got

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Speaker 1: the name Old Elkin the Fence, and he ran a

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Speaker 1: clothing store where he fenced stolen objects. And at one

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Speaker 1: point he signed up to fight in the Civil War.

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Speaker 1: But he did it like right before the war ended

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Speaker 1: because he just wanted the recruitment bonus. Yeah, he was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I think this war is almost over, I'll do it.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely brilliant And in her book, Sophie paints a story

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Speaker 1: of how she had an evil, wicked step mom who,

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Speaker 1: as soon as her noble dad was off fighting the

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Speaker 1: noble war turned around and like corrupted her. But this

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Speaker 1: is just entirely a lie. Her dad was like barely

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Speaker 1: gone for either days or months, but not not very long.

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Speaker 1: Her mom was a crook. She spent at least three

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Speaker 1: terms in Sing Sing prison, and one time she was

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Speaker 1: arrested because she she stole some diamond jewelry, right, and

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Speaker 1: so she fenced it at a pawn shop like you do.

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Speaker 1: And then she was thinking to herself, man, I wonder

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Speaker 1: whether there's anything I can steal. I know where there's

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Speaker 1: some diamond jewelry. So she went back to the pawn shop.

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Speaker 1: She just sold the stuff too, stole it from them,

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Speaker 1: and then sold it to another poun shop, which would well,

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Speaker 1: except she got caught. Dang it. I was like, that's pretty,

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Speaker 1: that's bold. That's a bold I know. He was like, yo,

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Speaker 1: ain't you the lady that was just here too minutes? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I mean like, how can I see that one that

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Speaker 1: looks interesting to me? And then just just bolts out

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Speaker 1: the doors like yeah, totally alright right here. And when

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Speaker 1: she dropped off jewelry, her name, yeah, hr paper Stacks.

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Speaker 1: So when Sophie was twelve, she gets arrested for burglary

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Speaker 1: and she gets sent to a juvenile detention center. It's

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Speaker 1: the first one in the United States, the House of Refuge,

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Speaker 1: and she's one of the first girls at this newly

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Speaker 1: opened she's she's one of the first girl juvenile delinquents

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Speaker 1: in the United States. What an's called the House of Refuge? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it had been created by a group called the

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Speaker 1: Society for the Prevention of Pauperism. Wow, I thought it

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Speaker 1: was going to be. Wow, the Society for the Prevention

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Speaker 1: of Pauperism. Yeah, that's quite a name. Also, House of

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Speaker 1: Refuge is the name of many Black churches. Oh interesting,

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so many black house refuge. That that's a

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Speaker 1: more deserving name, or like they deserve the name more. Yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: that's all what it's called House of Refuge. I was like,

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Speaker 1: I thought you was gonna say, which was founded by

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Speaker 1: House of Refuge missionary Baptist Church. But never mind, no, no,

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Speaker 1: no one seems to know what she was convicted over,

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Speaker 1: how long she stayed there. Most of her fellow inmates

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Speaker 1: where kids who had been convicted of vagrancy, so she

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Speaker 1: was like one of the like got it most sketchy.

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Speaker 1: She was like one of the most badass people there

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Speaker 1: or whatever, because everyone else was just like fucking thrown

421
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 1: in prison for being homeless. And while in the house

422
00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 1: of refuge, she faced whipping solitary confinement. She kept in

423
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,360
Speaker 1: the leg irons. She's twelve years old, damn. And it's

424
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: funny to contrast this with what she supposedly faced at home, right, Yeah,

425
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 1: they were all taught how to sew. All the girls

426
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 1: were taught how to sew and cook and clean and

427
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 1: basically how to get shitty jobs for life outside of jail.

428
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 1: And so this is probably when she was like, all right,

429
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 1: given my options, I choose crime for sure, for absolutely sure. Yeah,

430
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: she gets out since her family is all tied up

431
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: in court and ship, Like, I think her dad's in

432
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 1: jail at this point, maybe her mom is too. She

433
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 1: sets out on her own. She's fourteen years old. She

434
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 1: gets arrested right away, like less than a year later,

435
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: she gets arrested her picking pockets, spends two months in

436
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 1: an adult prison for the first time, and she gets

437
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,640
Speaker 1: out and she's going back to her crime. She's fifteen.

438
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 1: She's good looking and she knows it, and she uses

439
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 1: that to distinct advantage her entire life, which makes sense. Yeah.

440
00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: At fifteen, she gets married to another Germany fIF Yeah, yeah, okay,

441
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 1: I think as far as I can tell, basically, it

442
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: was just like if two people were hooking up, they

443
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 1: were like, we should probably get married, right, okay, yeah,

444
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 1: so it's got to be that because I was like,

445
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 1: I ain't no way. Yeah. Then again, it is like

446
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: she ends up with four husbands and fox a many

447
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 1: many other people besides that. But she marries Mari Harris,

448
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: who was about twenty and he was a shoemaker in

449
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: a pickpocket and the marriage lasted about two years. Okay.

450
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: Around this time, though, she finds a new mom, a

451
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: mom she likes way more than old mom. And this

452
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: is in one of the most cinema cinema movie like

453
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 1: parts of this whole story. The sort of orphaned crime

454
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:47,640
Speaker 1: girl discovers the old matron of crime because she gets

455
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: a new crime mom. Old crime mom kind of mean,

456
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 1: new crime mom super nice. Yes. Federica yeah, yeah, exactly,

457
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 1: Fedorica what mandel bomb? These names are flawless b oh yeah.

458
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 1: And she's known to everyone as morm Okay. She's another

459
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 1: German immigrant and she's a widow and she's the most

460
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: famous fence in America at the time. She inherited the

461
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 1: business from her deceased husband. I don't think she like

462
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 1: poisoned her husband or anything, but you know, wouldn't wouldn't

463
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: put it past anyone. And she ran the business with

464
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: her two daughters, and they basically they would have like

465
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 1: pawn shops and ship right and jewelry stores and clothing stores.

466
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: And then any time the police would raid, they had

467
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: this like whole crazy mechanism with like a dumb waiter

468
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: in the chimney where you can throw the jewelry into

469
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 1: it and it hides the jewelry behind the fire like

470
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: an active burning fire. Um. There's diagrams of it in

471
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: in Sophie's book, Okay. And she runs the shop from

472
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: behind a counter with iron bars, so it's harder to

473
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 1: rob her. And this is something that never really occurred

474
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 1: to me, because you know, I've lived in cities where

475
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 1: everything is behind bulletproof glass or whatever. Right, the iron

476
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: bars make it harder to rob her, but they also

477
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: make it hard to arrest her. And that was absolutely

478
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 1: part of the point, because cops come in and you've

479
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: got some time, you know, they can't do anything for

480
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: a minute. Yeah, that's brilliant. Yeah, I'm actually you're I mean,

481
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: I'm kind of liking her so far. Oh yeah, no, totally,

482
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 1: like I actually like her. It was just a little

483
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: bit like, well, we'll get to it, Okay, Well she's

484
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: not like, she's not a monster, this is not a

485
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: bastard's episode. Yeah. True. Oh I have to keep reminding myself.

486
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: You're right. Yeah, totally people. Yeah, And basically what she

487
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: does is she has this whole fucking empire where the

488
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 1: thieves come in and they drop off all the jewelry

489
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 1: and ship, and then she has employees who are jewelers

490
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 1: who spend all of their time pulling all the stones

491
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 1: out of the settings and like melting down the gold

492
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 1: and like just selling gold en gets and jewels like loose.

493
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: I think maybe even making new jewelry out of all

494
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: the stolen ship, which would be what an amazing way.

495
00:27:58,119 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: I wish I had the story of like someone who

496
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 1: was just a jeweler who like later becomes some world

497
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: class jeweler because he kinda start just melting down stolen ship. Yeah,

498
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: and like and like the Dove story would be like

499
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: you don't even know stolen it was just it's just

500
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: the homegirl down the street, you know, the big HOMEI

501
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,880
Speaker 1: down the street. She said, hey, you want a little job.

502
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: You know, here's a nickel, here's a nickel. Put this together.

503
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: You're like, dude, I'm getting life skills out later on.

504
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: Yeah that was stolen. Yeah, And I wouldn't put this

505
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: pastor right. And she's she's fencing um and the cops

506
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: keep trying to get her, but her security culture is

507
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 1: just like too fucking good. Every time they come and

508
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: try and get her. It's like she's getting tipped off

509
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: before they come and get her. Like she fucking marm

510
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: seems to have a flawless career. She fences goods from

511
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: all over the East Coast in the Midwest, so she's

512
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: coming from like St. Louis, if you like, pick a

513
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,719
Speaker 1: pocket in St. Louis. The ring gets sent to New

514
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: York to be melted down, and I know, and it's

515
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: like no fucking cars, right, it's just on train, like

516
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: y'all walk in this stuff, like the horse care courrier

517
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: who just shows up in the middle of the night

518
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: with a saber and some stolen ship. Yes, And so

519
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: she's crime boss mom and she makes a fortune off

520
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: of her pickpockets. She pays all the cops off to

521
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: keep everyone safe, and she pays this massive retainer to

522
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: like the most prestigious law firm in New York City

523
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: to defend them all in court. So anytime one of

524
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: her pickpockets gets caught, world class lawyers come in and

525
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: defend the pickpocketing court. And but everyone, okay, the one trap, right,

526
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: everyone's in debt to her because not everyone like if

527
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 1: you get caught, she'll pay your bail and then she

528
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: charges interest and so you basically have to keep working

529
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: for because okay, yeah, that's how it works. That was

530
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 1: how it works. You know, we was talking all the politics.

531
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: It's like there are some favors you have to add

532
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: you it's like used to trade. It's the opportunity costs

533
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: like this, if I make this call, it's gonna work,

534
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: but it's gonna cost me, and you gotta like you listen.

535
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: Sometimes there's some there's some cousins, there's some uncles, there's

536
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: some friends you don't call because even though to work,

537
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: but I don't know if I should call it this. Yeah,

538
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 1: it's so she sounds like she's that where it's like,

539
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: oh yeah, we'll take care of you. Yeah, but you're

540
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: gonna own me something. Yeah exactly. Yeah, And like, you know,

541
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: I bet you that, Like, if I'm facing two months,

542
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: maybe I'll take two months instead of owing her money,

543
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: you know, yes, yes, exactly, I'll just take these two

544
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: months tough it out. You're already a street You're already

545
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: a street person, so you're fine. You probably know half

546
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: the people in the sales anyway. Yeah, yeah exactly. So

547
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: she has this big fancy house, Morm does, and she

548
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: throws big fancy parties. But the thing that I really

549
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: like about this, it's not high society parties. It's not

550
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: for the rich assholes around the city. She throws high

551
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: society parties for her thieves. Yes, they all kick it. Yeah.

552
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: And so this is this is how Sophie comes up.

553
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: And eventually later end of her life, Morm finally gets caught,

554
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: so she pays her bail, moves to Canada, and died

555
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: a free woman. And so that's that's Marm's and brilliant

556
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: morm is hard And this is how Sophie learned the

557
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: tricks of the trade. She already knew how to steal,

558
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: but now she learns how to bribe cops. She learns

559
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: how to get out of jail and ship. She learns

560
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: how to move goods. She learns how to change jewelry.

561
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: She meets petty thieves who end up like world class

562
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: art thieves, like a lot of the like world class

563
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: art heist people from the time, all like came up

564
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: under marm And she learns some some shoplifting tricks that

565
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: I think are fucking sick, but I've never encouraged anyone

566
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: to make whatever people can whatever skirts with hidden pockets

567
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: is a big one that she steals. And then the

568
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: other one is that she walks into the store with

569
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: a folded up umbrella like as a cane, and then

570
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: just drops the objects into the umbrella. And she's say

571
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 1: that again. Yeah, so she walks into the store. She's

572
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: got an umbrella, but it's like folded up right, and

573
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 1: so she has it upside down like a cane. And

574
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: so that's where she just like drops ship that she's

575
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: trying to steal. Brilliant. Yeah. Uh, that beats the whole

576
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: like up the sleeve thing. Not that I would know

577
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: anything or anything like that. Now, why why would you?

578
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: Why would you? I don't even know. Yeah, I definitely

579
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: didn't spend a long time as a squatter, uh no,

580
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,959
Speaker 1: And so she was beautiful and vain. She kept her

581
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: hair cropped short, which was not the fashion, but so

582
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: that she could wear wigs more easily for her crimes.

583
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: And so although like photos and etchings of her, she

584
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 1: has this like total Dike haircut, it rules. But then

585
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: she meets ned Lyons, who's eight years older than her,

586
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: and this is where she gets the name Lions. He

587
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: was Irish. He had fled Ireland because of the potato

588
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: famine again colonial genocide, not to follow the potatoes pato blight. Yeah,

589
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: and once in America, ned Like lied and said he

590
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: was British, but it was just to deal with all

591
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: the anti Irish bigotry that he faced everywhere he went.

592
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: Which again I'm like, I'm I'm with you, I like

593
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 1: wish it just I don't know whatever which the Irish different,

594
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,719
Speaker 1: you know what? No, I'm cool, yeah yeah. But at

595
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: one point he gets arrested. He listed his occupation as

596
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: jeweler when he gets arrested, because he was one of

597
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: Marm's jewelers. But more than that, his occupation was something

598
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: called a cracksman, which meant that he blew up safes. Yeah. Yeah,

599
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 1: I definitely thought Cracksman as something else but century early

600
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, yeah, and that's actually interesting. There's like I

601
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: cannot find and histories really pick what they do and

602
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: don't talk about, right, Like one of the main things

603
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 1: that I keep running across is history books don't like

604
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: to talk about sex work, and history books don't like

605
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 1: to talk about the drug trade if they can fucking

606
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: help it. Yeah, And I I don't know whether or

607
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: not any of this criminal enterprise stuff involved the drug trade.

608
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: There's like some stuff where at some point, like she

609
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: claims to be a morphine addict a lot, but I

610
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: think she's literally just faking it to get sympathy from

611
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: the courts, which is really funny to imagine that that

612
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: would get you sympathy from the courts as compared to now. Yeah,

613
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 1: but I think that there's like like you said, like

614
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,959
Speaker 1: history don't like talking about it, mainly because like most

615
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: drug syndicates were actually the government, so you want to

616
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 1: admit that, like the government's actually doing it. But like

617
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: you said, ain't no way, Yeah, ain't no way, She's

618
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: not moving drugs, heroin, morphine, poppy, Like ain't no way.

619
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,800
Speaker 1: You don't say yeah, yeah, yeah, because I mean, like

620
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: where would the other because someone is doing that, right,

621
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 1: and like how else would you get hot adrenaline at

622
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 1: the time, But that still had to get moved by someone.

623
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: You just you threw that. You threw that in there.

624
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 1: That was a freebee. That's the first time I ever

625
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 1: heard those two words. But yeah, yeah, no, I want some.

626
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,760
Speaker 1: I once edited an article about all the nineteenth century

627
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: drugs that people did, and the only one that I remember,

628
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: sides like ether is a orangutanng adrenaline, which people would

629
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 1: just yeah adrenaline, which imagine that fucking crime scene, like

630
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,479
Speaker 1: the not crime scene, like the syndicate that's moving arang

631
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,760
Speaker 1: and the supply chain out mug like that's wow, okay, anyway,

632
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 1: going alright, so this whole scene. You have to be

633
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: the toughest human being to get adrenaline out of an

634
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: orang orangutank Yeah yeah nah, you'd like that's a scary

635
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: that's a scary person who's able to go get adrenaline

636
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: out of yone. That's true. I would not. I wouldn't

637
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,439
Speaker 1: sunk with someone who's on it, and I wouldn't work

638
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,879
Speaker 1: with someone who gets it because on it when you're

639
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: trying to get it exactly. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, all right,

640
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: So this whole scene it seems like almost like free

641
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: love or polyquel ish because they meet everyone through like

642
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,919
Speaker 1: like she meets Ned Lyons through his previous wife. Their

643
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 1: mutual friend, an Irish woman named redheaded Kate. Sophie was

644
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:12,359
Speaker 1: probably Ned's like third wife. He's like in his early twenties. Yeah,

645
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 1: and I don't know, basically people kept marrying the people

646
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: that they were dating instead of just dating them. Um.

647
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: I think partly because like she's Jewish, but almost all

648
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: these people are Catholic, because it's all fucking Irish people,

649
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 1: and but everyone's fucking everyone and it seems to be

650
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: it's basically like so they're not Polly, but they're all

651
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:33,879
Speaker 1: sucking each other and it's totally fine until one day

652
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: it's just not fine, and then there's like gunfights and

653
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: ship you know, because like you sucked my wife and

654
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 1: you're like, well it's fine last week, and like I

655
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: don't care you sucked my wife. Suck you you fucked

656
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 1: my wife, Like that's different. Yeah, I know that's different. Yeah,

657
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: that's awful away. Yeah yeah, and so I think it

658
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,320
Speaker 1: was totally normal that they were all just like mutual friends.

659
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: And she made her new husband through her new husband's

660
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:01,919
Speaker 1: ex for whatever, who might not even be legally married,

661
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: who knows, And so if he fucking hates Nedlines by

662
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: the end of her life. But at the time she's seventeen,

663
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: they fall madly in love and become partners in crime, okay,

664
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 1: And in eighteen sixty five she gets pregnant she's seventeen,

665
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: and then a couple of months later they get married

666
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:19,720
Speaker 1: I think, like right on her basically or eighteenth birthday,

667
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 1: although I don't know if that has any significance. I'm

668
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: sure they can get married before then. And kind of

669
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 1: fun Nedlines he did some interesting ship, but he was controlling, right,

670
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: because he was this Catholic man, right, and he wanted

671
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 1: to provide for his family, And so they go out

672
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: places and he would jack she would jackson watches or whatever,

673
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: and then like come home and be like, oh, what

674
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 1: did you get? I got some watches? And he'd be

675
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,800
Speaker 1: like mad right, And then because he wanted to be

676
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,399
Speaker 1: the provider, yeah, even though he blew all their money

677
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 1: all the time, so she the family relied on the

678
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: fucking on her her thievery Yeah, so ned lions by

679
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty nine. He's feeling the pressure. He's got two

680
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: kids and he's got one on the way, and he's like,

681
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 1: this is it, man, I need a big score take

682
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 1: care of my family. So he cruise up with a

683
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:05,919
Speaker 1: bunch of other big time bank robbers and they're gonna

684
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 1: hit Ocean Bank in Manhattan. So it's oceans for this

685
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:17,760
Speaker 1: is my theory. But before we learn about the bank robbery, first,

686
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 1: we're going to learn about the opposite of bank robbery,

687
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 1: where instead services take money from you, instead of you

688
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: taking money from services, and then they enter it into banks. Yes, yeah,

689
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: here's some ads and we are back. So our our

690
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 1: bank robbing crew. The bank is on the first floor

691
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 1: of a brownstone near Wall Street, and the vault is

692
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 1: steel and brick. It has three heavy doors, so there's

693
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: no need for a weekend watchman because no one can

694
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: get through those three heavy doors and that vault. Right,

695
00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 1: So what do the robbers do? They do the same

696
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 1: ship everyone in this fucking podcast does. They every tunneler,

697
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,959
Speaker 1: every everyone. They rent a space nearby. In this case,

698
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 1: the space is real nearby. The bank is on the

699
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: first floor. There's a a basement storefront underneath the bank. Yes,

700
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 1: so they rent the basement storefront under the bank. They

701
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: set up a fake business. I wish I could find

702
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 1: out what the business was. I'm really sad. Maybe it

703
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: was a florist. I don't know. They set up a

704
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: wall in the basement shop so they can work without

705
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: being seen. And then they just dropped the fucking bank.

706
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 1: It's closed on Sundays, so as soon as it closed

707
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 1: this door on Saturday, they saw a hole through the

708
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 1: ceiling into the floor of the bank. They climb up through,

709
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: they break through each of the heavy doors. Then they

710
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: blow the vault the funk open, and they leave with

711
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 1: a half a million or a million dollars, which is

712
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: like ten to twenty million dollars today. I love it.

713
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 1: And fucking a few days work for like four people,

714
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: and they never got caught and they never got charged,

715
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 1: no one got hurt. How if you two dudes that rented,

716
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 1: like when you signed the lease downstairs, did you guys

717
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 1: not go eight and floes that rented those four Yeah, yeah,

718
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 1: I mean probably just went up and it was like,

719
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 1: I'm Mr. F. H. Aubrey and it has a monocle

720
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 1: and ship, right, you know, I don't know, like, hello,

721
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 1: what is your name? Beatrid Hamiles fourth? Yeah, exactly. And

722
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:26,359
Speaker 1: then they go and spend a lot of time trying

723
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 1: to track down Mr Hamilt's fourth and yeah he's in

724
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: the wind. Yeah, And so you'd think they've done this

725
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 1: big score. So they're all set to go straight right

726
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: from penniless immigrants to middle class citizens. You could start

727
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: their own businesses. Now they just they just keep they

728
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 1: just keep robbing ship. Yeah, because that was too easy,

729
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,399
Speaker 1: Like you're just like you telling me, with four days work,

730
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 1: we made twenty million dollars and don't nobody know who

731
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: we are and nobody asking where we got this money.

732
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:59,839
Speaker 1: We have to do this again, yeah, like there's no townside. Yeah,

733
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 1: at least that time. So Ned though, he kind of

734
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: sucks up his career because in the in the criming world,

735
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 1: being able to change your appearance is really important, right,

736
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: especially because there's no fucking fingerprints yet photos have barely

737
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 1: been invented. There's a really good time to be a

738
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 1: criminal in some ways. Some ways it was really terrible, actually,

739
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 1: but Ned he goes and he picks a fight with

740
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 1: a really fighty guy with a really fighting name, Jimmy Haggarty,

741
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: and Jimmy bites most of Ned's ear off, everything but

742
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:42,360
Speaker 1: the ear lobe. Let's go, yeah, ear off. So Ned's

743
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 1: fucked now, right. He grows his hair long, and he

744
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: grows a sideburns out to try and cover the fact

745
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 1: that he's missing a fucking ear and he's sort of successful.

746
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 1: Jimmy Haggerty. However, he's a little bit too fighty and

747
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:55,399
Speaker 1: he dies in a fight. A couple of years later.

748
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: He died doing what he loved. And then one night

749
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,359
Speaker 1: in seventy Ned was mining his own business, just hanging

750
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: out in Philly with some of his friends, including someone

751
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 1: with the name Jimmy Hope. And my theory here is

752
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: that if your name is Jimmy, don't go by your

753
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 1: first or last name, or you'll just sound like an

754
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 1: old timy crook. Yeah Jimmy one leg one year, Yeah, lefty, Jimmy, Yeah,

755
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 1: Jimmy Hope whatever. Ye. So, so Nan and his buddies,

756
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 1: including Jimmy Hope, they're just hanging out and they're carrying

757
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: a safe across the street that they just stole from somewhere.

758
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 1: When someone tries to arrest them, pulls a gun out

759
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: even and Ned gets arrested. He gives a fake name,

760
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: Edwards Salman, and then he goes back to New York

761
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 1: after he jumps bail, because that's what you do. You

762
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 1: get caught, you give a fake name, you pay bail,

763
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 1: you fucking jump bail and move to a different city. Day.

764
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 1: It must be nice being a white criminal. Yeah, I know,

765
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: I'm trying. I was. Actually I spent a while trying

766
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 1: to find out about black crime in this era, and

767
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 1: it's like, in terms of like professional crime, I mostly

768
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: started seeing in my research someone listening might know more

769
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 1: about this, or you might know more about this, But

770
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,800
Speaker 1: I started seeing like professional crime coming up more in

771
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: the Prohibition era. Um and then instead of course, what

772
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 1: you know, the black crime at the time was being

773
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 1: black and they continue, yeah, yeah, exactly. So you know,

774
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: it's not that there weren't a lot of black people

775
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 1: in prisons then and now the reason that whatever. One

776
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 1: day it's more of a bastards thing, I guess, But

777
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: one day I want to do stuff that touches more

778
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 1: on the fact that, like the fucking prison system just

779
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 1: came out of the like slave system. Oh yeah, we

780
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: did that okay, well behind the police. Oh yeah, okay,

781
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 1: that's right, and everyone should go check that out because

782
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 1: that is important context to have. Ye yeah, alright. Anyway, Yeah,

783
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 1: so Jimmy one Leg. Yeah, so he's hanging out with

784
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: Jimmy Hope, Jimmy one Leg and Hope up in New

785
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: York and he's he's just doing his thing. A couple

786
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 1: of days later, a couple of weeks later or whatever,

787
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 1: we can't catch a break. He's just doing his thing,

788
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: robbing a bank. When some armed citizens stopped him, some

789
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 1: gunfire was exchanged. Our man Ned gets in jail again.

790
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 1: This time he goes to jail under the name Robert E.

791
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:23,320
Speaker 1: Hapgood but yeah, and he gets he gets five years

792
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:25,800
Speaker 1: upstate in Auburn prison. He does not get away with

793
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: it this time. I think they don't offer a bail.

794
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. And this prison is fucked up. The

795
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 1: cells are three and a half feet wide, and there's

796
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: a code of silence enforced at all hours, like it's

797
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,919
Speaker 1: a silent retreat of a fucking prison. It's awful. Yeah.

798
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: So Sophie, she does what any good partner would do,

799
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: and she starts figuring out who she has to bribe.

800
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 1: Or funk to get him transferred to Sing Sing Prison,

801
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,320
Speaker 1: which is way closer and has much more bribeable guards

802
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: because the guards in and Auburn were much harder to bribe.

803
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: So she finds a long term sitter for the three kids,

804
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 1: basically like, hey, someone, can you watch my kids? I

805
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:03,720
Speaker 1: gotta go figure out how to get my fucking husband

806
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,399
Speaker 1: out of this fucking prison. She moved to Albany, New York.

807
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: She finds a lawyer politician guy and starts fucking him,

808
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 1: and then he then starts putting the wheels of justice

809
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 1: in motion to get her husband transferred to Sing Sing prison.

810
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 1: But then she feels very betrayed because after doing all

811
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: of that work, he then demands on top of the

812
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:31,759
Speaker 1: sex um. But her husband gets transferred, and so she's like,

813
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 1: all right, I go back to New York. I'm gonna

814
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 1: start looking after the kids the only way I know

815
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 1: how by stealing a bunch of ship. Yeah, And she

816
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 1: immediately gets busted. And she gets busted for stealing a cloak,

817
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 1: which feels really fucking old timing a cloak, But what

818
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 1: I realized is that cloaks. Cloaks have been in fashion

819
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 1: for like four thousand years and they only went out

820
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: of fashion, like the nineteen thirties. We live in this

821
00:45:56,719 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: tiny little period of non cloak wearing. Everyone else in

822
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 1: history got to wear cloaks. I'm not that's crazy. I

823
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 1: never thought I never thought of it like that. Yeah, like,

824
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 1: who's been wearing a cloak since? Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah,

825
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 1: just run fair people and me. I guess I'm probably

826
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: run fair people. You're definitely a You're definitely a cloak. Yeah.

827
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: My ex partner made me a cloak. Is very nice.

828
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 1: You're listening. Thanks for the cloak. Um, right, did you say?

829
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 1: Did you say, Margaret, it's a cloak kind of gala?

830
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 1: So she is, that's true, It's absolutely true. I love that.

831
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: So she steals a cloak. This gets her sense to

832
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 1: sing Sing prison, where her husband is, and a few

833
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: months later her mother ends up there too, So the

834
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: whole family is reunited in sing Sing prison. And oh yeah,

835
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 1: but not not the not good trime mom, but like

836
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: wicked evil stepmom who was probably fine. Yeah, and the

837
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 1: whole family of course works with out pay up in

838
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 1: sing Sing prison because the thirteen Amendment says, the one

839
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: that outlaws slavery says, well that loaves. Some slavery says

840
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 1: neither slavery nor involuntary servitude accept as punishment for crime,

841
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 1: whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist

842
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: within the United States. You know, now I wrote into

843
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 1: the script here like here talk about the thing that

844
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,320
Speaker 1: we already talked about about, how fucking the reason the

845
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 1: prison system exists so that black people have to keep

846
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 1: working for free mm hmm. But Sophie, she figures, I

847
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 1: don't want to be in prison anymore. It's not working

848
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:36,919
Speaker 1: out for me. I liked hanging out with my kids

849
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 1: and being not in prison. Um. And she preferred not

850
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 1: working for lots of money than lots of working for

851
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 1: not money. Yeah. So they organize a prison break, and

852
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 1: who does this prison break As a matter of who

853
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 1: you ask, you ask her, she's the entire thing. If

854
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 1: you ask history, probably husband did most of it. Mm hm.

855
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 1: Basically everyone knows that he's richest ship from the bank job,

856
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 1: and so everyone's willing to put in a lot of

857
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: work to get him out because they're like, oh, if

858
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 1: we get him out, he'll give us his richest ship money.

859
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 1: And he convinces an inmate who's a clerk, to get

860
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:19,320
Speaker 1: in on it. They bribe guards to bring in disguises,

861
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 1: which are men's clothes, wigs, fake mustaches, and beards, basically

862
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: like to be like fancy gentlemen. They hide all this

863
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:30,280
Speaker 1: ship under dark stairwell in the prison. The clerk steals

864
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: documents that has all of the info someone would need

865
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 1: to like send a fake telegraph. It's like all of

866
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: the who to address ship to stuff. And then they wait.

867
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: They wait for their opportunity because their plan is to

868
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:43,839
Speaker 1: find an excuse to lure the warden and the chief

869
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:47,800
Speaker 1: clerk away from the prison. So this politician dies is

870
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 1: this big funk off funeral, and outside contacts send a

871
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: fake telegram to the warden and the chief clerk and

872
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 1: they're like pretending to be a prison supplier, and they're like, oh,

873
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 1: we love you so much, you buy all the ship

874
00:48:57,800 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: from us. Capitalism is totally the same in the twenty

875
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 1: century the nineteenth century. You two should come to the

876
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:07,280
Speaker 1: fucking funeral and we'll all watch it together. So it works.

877
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:10,319
Speaker 1: The two fucking head people out of the jail are gone.

878
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: Some other crooks dressed up like rich assholes. They ride

879
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 1: up in a coach. They asked for a tour of

880
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 1: the prison, and then Ned and his accomplice donned their

881
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 1: rich asshole clothes and put on fake beards and ship

882
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 1: and they walk out of the prison into a horse

883
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: draung coach and funk off out of there. And two

884
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 1: weeks later, because he's a stand up guy right now,

885
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 1: at least, he comes back for his wife and he

886
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 1: does more or less the same thing. He shows up

887
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 1: in his dandy outfit. He goes up to the kitchen

888
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:40,320
Speaker 1: of the prisons hospital where Sophie is working, and he

889
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:42,319
Speaker 1: shows up with a big basket of fruit and he's like, Oh,

890
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:44,319
Speaker 1: I'm some rich asshole and I have bought so much

891
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 1: fruit for the poor prisoners. And so someone goes off

892
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 1: to take the fruit basket away and while and so

893
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 1: now he's alone with Sophie, and so he throws up,

894
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:56,799
Speaker 1: let's go yeah. Yeah, he throws a fur coat over her.

895
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 1: They walk out into the snow as some rich asshole couple,

896
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 1: and they get on a fucking sleigh and then they

897
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 1: ride away on a sleigh because there's so much fucking snow,

898
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:09,280
Speaker 1: Oh my god. And they go home in the nobody

899
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:15,720
Speaker 1: was like, who's that? Did you come in with it? Yeah, nope,

900
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 1: Wait a second. Yeah, they probably run out with their

901
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 1: whistles and they're like fucking sticks and they're like funny

902
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:28,759
Speaker 1: hats and ship Oh god, hilarious. So they break out

903
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:32,839
Speaker 1: a fucking sing sing prison and they lost a kid

904
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 1: while they were in uh, like one of their six

905
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 1: year olds dies because it's the nineteenth century and kids

906
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: die all over the place. I think she dies of

907
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:43,760
Speaker 1: scarlet fever or something. They moved to Montreal because Canada

908
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:47,839
Speaker 1: has no extradition treaty. But then a super hot crime

909
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 1: lady named Becky showed up and was like, Becky, I know,

910
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 1: I know, Hey, Ned, help me break my husband out

911
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,319
Speaker 1: of prison, because you're very good at breaking people out

912
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 1: of prison, I hear. So he goes to Maine and

913
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 1: he works on a jailbreak, but he fails at the

914
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:05,240
Speaker 1: jail break, and but he does succeed at sleeping with Becky,

915
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 1: of course, so if he gets mad about this. But

916
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 1: then Ned was like, but you fucked that guy to

917
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 1: get me transferred. Yeah, wait a minute, and she's like,

918
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 1: but I did that for you, yeah, yeah exactly, yeah, yeah,

919
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 1: I can imagine that fight, you know, And there's there's

920
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 1: some truth to that, but whatever. Yeah, So they bicker,

921
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 1: she leaves him, then they get back, moves to New Orleans,

922
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:32,240
Speaker 1: and they get back together. She has three more kids.

923
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 1: She just shipping all of her kids off to Catholic

924
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 1: schools in Canada. And it took me a while to

925
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 1: get a sense of this, right because at first, because

926
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 1: I'm kind of like, oh, you just have kids and

927
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 1: ditch them, which is not like the best look, right, Yeah,

928
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,919
Speaker 1: But I actually believe her in what she talks about

929
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 1: this later. She didn't want her kids to be crooks

930
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:54,800
Speaker 1: because she came up in a crime family. And she's like,

931
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 1: and I think she likes her crime life, right, but

932
00:51:57,480 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 1: she's still kind of like, I don't want I don't

933
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 1: want this for my kids. So she doesn't everything she

934
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 1: fucking can to get them a proper education and go

935
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 1: through life without knowing mom and dad, basically like without

936
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,280
Speaker 1: knowing what they were up to, which basically made barely

937
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: knowing them. Yeah, And it's kind yeah, like tracks, yeah, yeah,

938
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 1: it's interesting to me, right because it's it's the greatest

939
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:21,720
Speaker 1: emotional wound of her life, right, um, that she's estranged

940
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 1: from her family. But she's like, oh, I'm doing it

941
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 1: for my kids. Yeah, probably even to like, although a

942
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 1: lot of it, you know, sounds a lot like folklore

943
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 1: as far as like her wicked stepmom or whatever, but

944
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:38,719
Speaker 1: just being like, you know, her coming to terms with

945
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 1: being like, why would you do that to a child?

946
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:43,680
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. And then after spending so

947
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 1: much time and then yeah, like anybody who's like, no

948
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:51,320
Speaker 1: matter how institutionalized or like hardened you are, at some

949
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: point you like, man, you know, nobody should have to

950
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:56,960
Speaker 1: live like this, you know what I'm saying. So I

951
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 1: could see I could see her being like, man, I

952
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 1: don't want you to live like I lived. Yeah, especially

953
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 1: if she can provide them enough money and enough education

954
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 1: to have them not like because if it's for her

955
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:10,360
Speaker 1: it was like that, or be a pauper like the

956
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:14,759
Speaker 1: Society of the Prevention of Pauperism wanted, you know. But

957
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:18,759
Speaker 1: the couple they keep doing all their crime stuff. Ned

958
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 1: goes off to rob banks, he narrowly avoids capture. Then

959
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 1: they go on shoplifting dates. Whenever they get caught, they

960
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 1: give a grand to the cops who catch them. They

961
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 1: get off free. They move all over the place. This

962
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:32,880
Speaker 1: goes on to her mid thirties or so eventually they

963
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 1: get caught when a bribe failed. They offer the cops

964
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 1: thousand bucks. The cops like fuck you, and they get

965
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 1: sent off to prison to reserve the remainder of their

966
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 1: sentences right because they escaped. But this is what a

967
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:48,399
Speaker 1: good lawyer will do. The good lawyer was like, well,

968
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 1: actually her prison time is elapsed, so you can't put

969
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:57,359
Speaker 1: her in prison. And it worked brilliant And I don't

970
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:00,839
Speaker 1: go but it fucking worked, but amazing. It didn't get

971
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:02,759
Speaker 1: her husband out, but I think she's kind of done

972
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: with them. She moves to Yah, she don't care to more. Yeah,

973
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 1: she moved to Detroit, which remains her home base for

974
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 1: the rest of her life, close enough to Canada that

975
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 1: you keep her eye and her kids. And it's here

976
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 1: in Detroit that she goes from good thief who was

977
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 1: kind of overshadowed by her husband to the fucking queen

978
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 1: of the underworld. And on Wednesday is my cliffhanger. On

979
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:28,800
Speaker 1: Wednesday we will talk about that. What an origin story

980
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:37,399
Speaker 1: is my heart? You are man? Okay? All right? Uh? Well,

981
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:40,799
Speaker 1: prop do you ever talk about anything or is there

982
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 1: anything that people could listen to of you doing? Yeah,

983
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:47,719
Speaker 1: I'll be talking about a lot of stuff. The politics

984
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 1: will prop. I don't know when this is coming out,

985
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:56,240
Speaker 1: but next week. Okay, So we would have just completed

986
00:54:56,280 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 1: cractober Fest, right, which is about blowing up saves. Right. Yes,

987
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 1: so go learn about what it's like to blow up

988
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 1: safe out crack um and how it got to our streets. Uh.

989
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:15,239
Speaker 1: So that's a hip politics who prop. It's a it's

990
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: a vastard's prop crossover. It's pretty fun to do. Um.

991
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 1: I make music, I write poetry. I have a cold

992
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 1: brew coffee company called Terraform Cold Brew. Uh. If you're

993
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:32,359
Speaker 1: into ready to drink coffee, that's taste delicious and um

994
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 1: yeah Terraform cold Brew. But yeah, people's I got a

995
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 1: book called Terraform. Also, what's it about. It's about that.

996
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 1: It's poetry and short story about the idea of like

997
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:50,839
Speaker 1: building a livable world. Pretty fun. Yeah, it's about yep,

998
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 1: building a world. Uh and um yeah and yeah so

999
00:55:56,200 --> 00:56:00,879
Speaker 1: propity pop dot com um and uh hood politics pod

1000
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:06,360
Speaker 1: and Margaret you have a book and another podcast. Correct,

1001
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:08,840
Speaker 1: it's true. I have a book called We Won't Be

1002
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:12,520
Speaker 1: Here Tomorrow, which is about mostly crime people actually, but

1003
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 1: it's science fiction and fantasy and I have a podcast

1004
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 1: that is not about crime people. Sometimes you could be

1005
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 1: the crime people if you want the dear listener. It's

1006
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 1: called Live Like the World Is Dying and it's about

1007
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 1: individual and community preparedness. And you can follow Sophie's life

1008
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:34,479
Speaker 1: of crime at why Underscore Sophie. I actually don't remember

1009
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 1: your handle? Yeah yeah, yeah, Why Underscore Sophie underscore hy

1010
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 1: on Twitter and we will see you on Wednesday. I

1011
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:50,880
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1012
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media,

1013
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 1: visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check

1014
00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:59,799
Speaker 1: us out on the I Heard Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

1015
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. M HM