Speaker 1: I'm Laurie Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should
Speaker 1: Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist advice
Speaker 1: column for the Atlantic. And I'm Guy Wench. I'm the
Speaker 1: author of Emotional First Aid, and I write the Dear
Speaker 1: Guy advice column for Ted. And this is Dear Therapists.
Speaker 1: This week, we're going to check in on a guest
Speaker 1: from season two to hear how they're doing a year later. First,
Speaker 1: a quick note, Dear Therapists is for informational purposes only,
Speaker 1: does not constitute medical or psychological advice, and is not
Speaker 1: a substitute for professional health care advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
Speaker 1: Always seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional,
Speaker 1: or other qualified health provider with any questions you may
Speaker 1: have regarding a medical or psychological condition. By submitting a letter,
Speaker 1: you are agreeing to let I help Media use it
Speaker 1: in part or in full, and we may edit it
Speaker 1: for length and clarity. In the sessions you'll hear, all
Speaker 1: names have been changed for the privacy of our guests. Today,
Speaker 1: we're going to check in with Paul. Paul's episode was
Speaker 1: called Paul's Inappropriate Boss, and the story was that Paul
Speaker 1: worked in the library with Sharon, his boss, and she
Speaker 1: would text him after work hours, all kinds of late
Speaker 1: hours of the night, even though Paul asked her not
Speaker 1: to do it and to respect his private time. She
Speaker 1: would also delegate her own responsibilities to him but not
Speaker 1: credit him for handling them, and she would violate his
Speaker 1: boundaries in other ways. Now, Paul tried setting limits with Sharon,
Speaker 1: but he felt she wasn't respecting those limits, and since
Speaker 1: she was his boss, he also felt powerless as to
Speaker 1: what else he could do as a subordinate without risking
Speaker 1: his job or opportunities for advancement. Sharon Aciety enjoyed being
Speaker 1: a librarian. He just wasn't sure what path to take
Speaker 1: given his current situation. So let's get a reminder from
Speaker 1: that session. Sharon, for example, I kind of went back
Speaker 1: into that situation where you know, just by her walking in,
Speaker 1: I'd be able to tell by the look on her
Speaker 1: face if she was going to be crowdy all day.
Speaker 1: She would kind of contact me outside of work to
Speaker 1: keep that conversation going. I would just see my phone
Speaker 1: light up and be a text message, and I said, hey,
Speaker 1: if this is work related and I'm not at work,
Speaker 1: I really would like if you could just email me instead.
Speaker 1: She didn't really do that. So I think generally it's
Speaker 1: just this predisposition to being so into and in tune
Speaker 1: with people and then modifying my behavior to make sure
Speaker 1: that I'm not making them angry and anything. That also
Speaker 1: goes along with why I have so much difficulty with
Speaker 1: like the second guessing kind of thing, where if I
Speaker 1: do set a boundary, I think to myself, am I
Speaker 1: being mean? Is this you know? Am I presenting it
Speaker 1: in the wrong way? Is it reasonable? Yeah? Exactly. You're
Speaker 1: listening to Dear Therapists from my Heart Radio. We'll be
Speaker 1: back after a short break, so let's see how Paul
Speaker 1: is doing a year later. Hey Laurie, Hey guy, it's Paul,
Speaker 1: and I'm calling to update you about how things have
Speaker 1: been since I was on the show. So since being on,
Speaker 1: I'd say that my level of stress and anxiety around
Speaker 1: work and working with Sharon has come down almost to
Speaker 1: the point of being non existent. Of course, there's periods
Speaker 1: of time when that's not the case, but I've gotten
Speaker 1: a lot better at figuring out how to set boundaries
Speaker 1: to make my day a little bit easier. I've continued
Speaker 1: to read a lot about boundaries and mental health and
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time sharing content from the mental
Speaker 1: health community on Instagram, including the content from you, Laurie
Speaker 1: and Guy. And I've really enjoyed how many of my
Speaker 1: friends have been sharing the same content and initiating conversations
Speaker 1: with me about boundaries. So the issues I had when
Speaker 1: we talked are nearly gone at this point, and I
Speaker 1: feel completely different about the situation than I did when
Speaker 1: we first talked. Like Laurie said, Sharon tried to slip
Speaker 1: text in every now and again after our conversation, so
Speaker 1: I reminded her, usually in person when we were back
Speaker 1: in the office, that I wouldn't respond to messages when
Speaker 1: I'm off work. Eventually she stopped and would mention to
Speaker 1: me how she wanted to send me something over the
Speaker 1: weekend but decided she shouldn't because she didn't want to
Speaker 1: bother me during my time off. So it seems like
Speaker 1: she did actually understand what I was asking for when
Speaker 1: we had our conversation about not talking outside of work.
Speaker 1: There's actually some changes coming up, and Sharon is not
Speaker 1: going to be my boss anymore after next month, so
Speaker 1: I think the dynamic is going to continue to change
Speaker 1: for the better. As a result of our conversation, I've
Speaker 1: gotten so much better at understanding and being aware of
Speaker 1: how much control I actually have in every relationship. I've
Speaker 1: been able to accept that I can't control others, and
Speaker 1: I can use what I know about people or what
Speaker 1: I might anticipate they will do to help me make
Speaker 1: better choices about how I want to handle things. So
Speaker 1: because of that, I feel a lot less responsible for
Speaker 1: how others respond to me and a lot more responsible
Speaker 1: for doing what's best for me. Since I don't get
Speaker 1: much fulfillment from the relationships I have with people at work,
Speaker 1: I've made it a point to make some new friends
Speaker 1: and set up recurring called some people I really enjoy,
Speaker 1: so that's helped me make up for what I don't
Speaker 1: get when I'm in the office. This situation I experienced
Speaker 1: was pretty difficult for me, but what's come amount of
Speaker 1: it has been great. I feel like my relationships have
Speaker 1: become so much better, and I'm better able to recognize
Speaker 1: people who are good for me to be around. The
Speaker 1: most important thing I realized was how much my mindset
Speaker 1: was the same was it was when I was younger
Speaker 1: and had no choice about to be obedient, even if
Speaker 1: it was harmful to me. Listening back to the podcast
Speaker 1: episode is actually a little scary to see how much
Speaker 1: we can imprison ourselves based on what we think and
Speaker 1: how I thought that there wasn't anything I can do
Speaker 1: to make my situation better. Knowing how much control I
Speaker 1: do actually have incredibly important, because it's true in every
Speaker 1: relationship I have, and there are very few circumstances where
Speaker 1: anyone can be a hundred percent stock. I've taken what
Speaker 1: I've learned from our conversation. I've applied it to all
Speaker 1: of my relationships. I feel so much more comfortable having
Speaker 1: and expressing what I need, and when people show me
Speaker 1: that they can or won't follow what I'm asking for,
Speaker 1: I adjust my mindset expectations accordingly. Of course, it's still
Speaker 1: disappointing when I find that someone is unable to respect
Speaker 1: my boundaries, but the reality is that everyone's not from
Speaker 1: and I'm not for everyone, so it's okay to not
Speaker 1: expect that everyone can and will be able to respect
Speaker 1: my boundaries. All this time later, and I'm still really
Speaker 1: grateful for the conversation that we had. Each time I've
Speaker 1: listened to the podcast again, I've heard another layer of
Speaker 1: kindness and compassion from you both, and I really appreciate
Speaker 1: having had you both to encourage me. I think my
Speaker 1: conversation with Sharon gave me permission to set boundaries everywhere
Speaker 1: in my life, and it only gets easier each time.
Speaker 1: For anyone listening, I really want them to know that
Speaker 1: I can seem really hard and scary to advocate for
Speaker 1: yourself when no one around you who's ever respected your boundaries,
Speaker 1: but you can still set them, and you really should
Speaker 1: be proud of yourself when you do, no matter the
Speaker 1: response you get. What I love about hearing from people
Speaker 1: a year later is that we know what happened the
Speaker 1: week after we had a session with them, and usually
Speaker 1: there's some progress that's made, but a year later you
Speaker 1: can really see how the session has impacted their life
Speaker 1: in a much more global way. And I love what
Speaker 1: Paul said about how when he started setting boundaries at work,
Speaker 1: it translated to other areas of his life and now
Speaker 1: he applies it to all of his relationships. And I
Speaker 1: think the other important thing is that he was able
Speaker 1: to see from our conversation the connection between his inability
Speaker 1: to set boundaries as a child and that feeling of
Speaker 1: helplessness and then not being able to do that as
Speaker 1: an adult and realizing that he is free to do
Speaker 1: that now. He isn't shackled in that way. And I
Speaker 1: think when people make those connections, that's the first step
Speaker 1: in really setting themselves free and being able to set
Speaker 1: expectations for what they want in their relationships. I completely agree,
Speaker 1: and I think after a year you can see not
Speaker 1: just what he understood and is applying, but what he
Speaker 1: really internalized. And what he's internalized is the message here
Speaker 1: that boundaries are a statement about what you won't accept,
Speaker 1: not about what the other person should do. And that
Speaker 1: helps you because you can only be responsible for setting
Speaker 1: the boundary, not for whether they listen to it. You
Speaker 1: might have to keep setting it. And he really got that,
Speaker 1: and it sounds like he doesn't get triggered when that
Speaker 1: happens occasionally with Sharon anymore. He very calm about it
Speaker 1: because he understands that's not a reflection on him. That
Speaker 1: he'll just repeat the boundary. And then sure enough she
Speaker 1: actually comes to him and says, at some point, oh,
Speaker 1: I was gonna text you, but I didn't because I
Speaker 1: know you don't like it. So there's the proof of
Speaker 1: the pudding that he really got it, and he was
Speaker 1: so consistent that she finally got it. And what he
Speaker 1: did so beautifully was he maintained the boundary. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people feel like, if I set the
Speaker 1: boundary and then the other person violates my boundary, then
Speaker 1: the boundary has failed. And what people start to discover
Speaker 1: about boundaries is that they need to be maintained. That
Speaker 1: simply and clearly. You need to repeat the boundary, often
Speaker 1: for quite a while in the beginning, until the person
Speaker 1: really gets it. And it sounds like even when Sharon
Speaker 1: tested those boundaries, he was able to stay clear about
Speaker 1: what his boundary was. And I know that a lot
Speaker 1: of our listeners have issues with boundaries, a because we
Speaker 1: hear from them about that, and be because given no work,
Speaker 1: we know that a lot of people have trouble setting boundaries.
Speaker 1: And again, the typical mistake is they might set the boundary,
Speaker 1: but then they don't maintain it. What we're hearing from
Speaker 1: Paul is that once he learned to do it in
Speaker 1: one domain, in one relationship, he's been able to do
Speaker 1: it in others. And I think the tip for our
Speaker 1: listeners here is that this is a skill set if
Speaker 1: you need to develop it, start with the easiest people
Speaker 1: with whom you can set the boundary and maintain it.
Speaker 1: And once you've acquired the skill set and see that
Speaker 1: it works despite the emotional discomfort of having to repeatedly
Speaker 1: set the boundary, that gives you more confidence to than
Speaker 1: apply it in other relationships. And what Paul said is
Speaker 1: really important that it can be scary to set boundaries,
Speaker 1: especially in the beginning, if you haven't had the experience
Speaker 1: of people respecting your wants or your needs earlier in life.
Speaker 1: And I'm so glad that he acknowledged that, because think
Speaker 1: that a lot of people feel like, well, what's wrong
Speaker 1: with me that I'm so scared to set a boundary?
Speaker 1: And I think you see with Paul, he was afraid,
Speaker 1: he pushed through and it really worked out well for him.
Speaker 1: So I hope that listeners will go back and listen
Speaker 1: to the episode Paul's Inappropriate Boss here where he was
Speaker 1: back then and learned something about themselves and how they
Speaker 1: can set boundaries from Paul's experience. And it's funny because
Speaker 1: Paul said, when I re listened to the episode, I
Speaker 1: learned something new. Each time there's a new layer that
Speaker 1: he discovers, and I think our listeners will have the
Speaker 1: same experience. But Laurie, I want to tell you something.
Speaker 1: I listened to one of our episodes a few days
Speaker 1: ago from last season, and I heard new layers and
Speaker 1: some of the things that you were saying. In other words,
Speaker 1: you can't attend to all the information all at once.
Speaker 1: Every time you listen, you learn something. These are episodes
Speaker 1: that are worth really listening to, especially if you have
Speaker 1: some kind of issue, some kind of difficulty in that
Speaker 1: similar domain. Next week, a woman who has elaborate revenge
Speaker 1: fantasies about the people in her life wants to understand
Speaker 1: why she does this and how she can stop. I
Speaker 1: have no training and how to have a positive conversation.
Speaker 1: I think it feels shameful as a grown woman that
Speaker 1: I can't defend myself, and so I chake all about
Speaker 1: her and channel it towards these letters. If you're enjoying
Speaker 1: our podcast, don't forget to subscribe for free so that
Speaker 1: you don't miss any episodes, And please help support Dear
Speaker 1: Therapists by telling your friends about it and leaving a
Speaker 1: review on Apple Podcasts. Your reviews really help people to
Speaker 1: find the show. If you have a dilemma you'd like
Speaker 1: to discuss with us, email us at Lorie and Guy
Speaker 1: at I heart media dot com. Our executive producer is
Speaker 1: Noel Brown. We have produced and edited by Josh Fisher,
Speaker 1: additional editing support by Helena Rosen, John Washington and Zachary Fisher.
Speaker 1: Our interns are Ben Bernstein, Emily Gucierres and Silver Lifton
Speaker 1: and special thanks to our podcast Fairy Godmother Katie Curic.
Speaker 1: You can't wait to see you at our next session.
Speaker 1: The Atherrapist is a production of I Heart Radio Fisher
Speaker 1: fod