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Speaker 1: Hey to your Therapist listeners. It's Lori and Guy and

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Speaker 1: we have a quick update.

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Speaker 2: Many of you have told us that you get something

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Speaker 2: new out of each episode when you listen to it

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Speaker 2: again the second or third time. In fact, when we

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Speaker 2: listen to the episodes again, we also get takeaways we

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Speaker 2: didn't remember.

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Speaker 1: We're They're therapy is like that too. There are so

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Speaker 1: many learning moments in a session, and it's difficult to

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Speaker 1: absorb them all at once. So while we're not taping

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Speaker 1: new episodes right now, we are offering you our most

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Speaker 1: popular sessions as encores so that you can continue to

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Speaker 1: gain value from them.

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Speaker 2: We love doing the Therapists episodes, but we're each busy

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Speaker 2: with new and exciting projects that we hope you will

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Speaker 2: love just as much.

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Speaker 1: I have a new advice podcast called Since You Asked,

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Speaker 1: which you can get wherever you listen to podcasts.

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Speaker 2: And I have a new book coming out. It's called

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Speaker 2: Mind Overgrind, How to Break Free when work Hijacks your life,

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Speaker 2: and it will be published by Simon and Schuster. You

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Speaker 2: can find out more about it on my website.

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Speaker 1: You can learn more about these on our socials. And meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: we hope you find these Dear Therapists sessions as valuable

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Speaker 1: as we have making them for you. I'm Laurie Gottlieb.

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Speaker 1: I'm the author of Maybe You Should Talk to Someone,

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Speaker 1: and I write the Dear Therapist advice column for The Atlantic.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Guy Winch. I'm the author of Emotional First Aid,

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Speaker 2: and I write the Dear Guy advice column for Ted.

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Speaker 2: And this is Dear Therapists.

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Speaker 1: This week, we're going to check in out a guest

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Speaker 1: from season two to hear how they're doing a year later.

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Speaker 2: First, a quick note Deo Therapists is for informational purposes only,

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Speaker 2: does not constitute medical or psychological advice, and is not

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Speaker 2: a substitute for professional health care advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

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Speaker 2: Always seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional,

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Speaker 2: or other qualified health provider with any questions you may

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Speaker 2: have regarding a medical or psychological condition. By submitting a letter,

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Speaker 2: you are agreeing to let iHeart Media use it in

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Speaker 2: part or in and we may edit it for length

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Speaker 2: and clarity. In the sessions you'll hear, all names have

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Speaker 2: been changed for the privacy of our guests. Today, we're

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Speaker 2: going to check in with Paul. Paul's episode was called

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Speaker 2: Paul's inappropriate boss, and the story was that Paul worked

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Speaker 2: in a library with Sharon, his boss, and she would

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Speaker 2: text him after work hours all kinds of late hours

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Speaker 2: of the night, even though Paul asked her not to

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Speaker 2: do it and to respect his private time. She would

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Speaker 2: also delegate her own responsibilities to him, but not credit

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Speaker 2: him for handling them, and she would violate his boundaries

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Speaker 2: in other ways. Now, Paul tried setting limits with Sharon,

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Speaker 2: but he felt she wasn't respecting those limits, and since

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Speaker 2: she was his boss, he also felt powerless as to

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Speaker 2: what else he could do as a subordinate without risking

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Speaker 2: his job or opportunities for advancement. Sharon Ocidy enjoyed being

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Speaker 2: a librarian. He just wasn't sure what path to take

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Speaker 2: given his current situation. So let's get a reminder from

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Speaker 2: that session.

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Speaker 3: Sharon, for example, I kind of went back into that

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Speaker 3: situation where you know, just by her walking in, I'd

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Speaker 3: be able to tell by the look on her face

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Speaker 3: if she was going to be crouchy all day. She

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Speaker 3: would kind of contact me outside of work to keep

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Speaker 3: that conversation going. I would just see my phone light

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Speaker 3: up and it be a text message. And I said, Hey,

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Speaker 3: if this is work related and I'm not at work,

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Speaker 3: I really would like if you could just email me instead.

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Speaker 3: She didn't really do that. So I think generally it's

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Speaker 3: just this predisposition to being so into and in tune

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Speaker 3: with people and then modifying my behavior to make sure

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Speaker 3: that I'm not making them angry and anything. That also

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Speaker 3: goes along with why I have so much difficulty with

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Speaker 3: like the second guessing kind of thing, where if I

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Speaker 3: do set a boundary, I think to myself, am I

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Speaker 3: being mean? Is this you know? Am I presenting it

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Speaker 3: in the wrong way?

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Speaker 1: Is it reasonable?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Exactly.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Dear Therapists for my Heart Radio. We'll

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Speaker 1: be back after a short break.

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Speaker 4: So let's hear how Paul is doing a year later.

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Speaker 3: Hey Laurie, Hey guy, it's Paul, and I'm caring to

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Speaker 3: update you about how things have been since I was

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Speaker 3: on the show. So since being on, I'd say that

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Speaker 3: my level of stress and anxiety around work and working

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Speaker 3: with Sharon has come down almost to the point of

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Speaker 3: being non existent. Of course, there's periods of time when

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Speaker 3: that's not the case, but I've gotten a lot better

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Speaker 3: at figuring out how to set boundaries to make my

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Speaker 3: day a little bit easier. I've continued to read a

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Speaker 3: lot about boundaries and mental health and spend a lot

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Speaker 3: of time sharing content from the mental health community on Instagram,

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Speaker 3: including the content from You, Lauri, and Guy. And I've

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Speaker 3: really enjoyed how many of my friends have been sharing

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Speaker 3: the same content and initiating conversations with me about boundaries.

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Speaker 3: So the issues I had when we talked are nearly

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Speaker 3: gone at this point, and I feel completely different about

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Speaker 3: the situation than I did when we first talked. Like

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Speaker 3: Laurie said, Sharon tried to slip text in every now

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Speaker 3: and again after our conversation, so I reminded her, usually

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Speaker 3: in person when we are back in the office, that

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't respond to messages when I'm off work. Eventually

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Speaker 3: she stopped and would mention to me how she wanted

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Speaker 3: to send me something over the weekend, but decided she

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Speaker 3: shouldn't because she didn't want to bother me during my

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Speaker 3: time off. So it seems like she did actually understand

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Speaker 3: what I was asking for when we had our conversation

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Speaker 3: about not talking outside of work. There's actually some changes

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Speaker 3: coming up, and Sharon's not going to be my boss

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Speaker 3: anymore after next month, so I think the dynamic is

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Speaker 3: going to continue to change for the better. As a

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Speaker 3: result of our conversation, I've gotten so much better at

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Speaker 3: understanding and being aware of how much control I actually

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Speaker 3: have in every relationship. I've been able to accept that

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Speaker 3: I can't control others, and I can use what I

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Speaker 3: know about people or what I might anticipate they will

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Speaker 3: do to help me make better choices about how I

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Speaker 3: want to handle things. So because of that, I feel

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Speaker 3: a lot less responsible for how others respond to me

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Speaker 3: and a lot more responsible for doing what's best for me.

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Speaker 3: Since I don't get much fulfillment from the relationships I

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Speaker 3: have with people at work, I've made it a point

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Speaker 3: to make some new friends and set up recurring calls

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Speaker 3: some people I really enjoy, so that's helped me make

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Speaker 3: up for what I don't get when I'm in the office.

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Speaker 3: The situation I experienced was pretty difficult for me, but

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Speaker 3: what's come out of it has been great. I feel

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Speaker 3: like my relationships have become so much better, and I'm

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Speaker 3: better able to recognize people who are good for me

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Speaker 3: to be around. The most important thing I realized was

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Speaker 3: how much my mindset was the same was it was

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Speaker 3: when I was younger and had no choice about to

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Speaker 3: be obedient even if it was harmful to me. Listening

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Speaker 3: back to the podcast episode, there is actually a little

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Speaker 3: scary to see how much we can imprison ourselves based

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Speaker 3: on what we think and how I thought that there

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Speaker 3: wasn't anything I can do to make my situation better.

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Speaker 3: Knowing how much control I do actually have is incredibly

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Speaker 3: important because it's true in every relationship I have, and

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Speaker 3: there are very few circumstances where anyone can be one

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Speaker 3: hundred percent stuck. I've taken what I've learned from our conversation,

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Speaker 3: I've applied it to all of my relationships. I feel

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Speaker 3: so much more comfortable having and expressing what I need

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Speaker 3: and when people show me that they can or won't

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Speaker 3: follow what I'm asking for just my mindset expectations Accordingly.

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Speaker 3: Of course, it's still disappointing when I find that someone's

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Speaker 3: unable to respect my boundaries, but the reality is that

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Speaker 3: everyone's not for me, and I'm not for everyone, so

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Speaker 3: it's okay to not expect that everyone can and will

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Speaker 3: be able to respect my boundaries. All this time later,

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Speaker 3: and I'm still really grateful for the conversation that we had.

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Speaker 3: Each time I've listened to the podcast again, I've heard

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Speaker 3: another layer of kindness and compassion from you both, and

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Speaker 3: I really appreciate having had you both to encourage me.

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Speaker 3: I think my conversation with Sharon gave me permission to

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Speaker 3: set boundaries everywhere in my life, and it only gets

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Speaker 3: easier each time. For anyone listening, I really want them

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Speaker 3: to know that it can seem really hard and scary

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Speaker 3: to advocate for yourself when no one around you who's

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Speaker 3: ever respected your boundaries, but you can still set them

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Speaker 3: and you really should be proud of yourself when you do,

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Speaker 3: no matter the response you get.

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Speaker 1: What I love about hearing from people a year later

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Speaker 1: is that we know what happened the week after we

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Speaker 1: had a session with them, and usually there's some progress

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Speaker 1: that's made, but a year later you can really see

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Speaker 1: how the session has impacted their life in a much

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Speaker 1: more global way. And I love what Paul said about

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Speaker 1: how when he started setting boundaries at work, it translated

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Speaker 1: to other areas of his life and now he applies

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Speaker 1: it to all of his relationships. And I think the

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Speaker 1: other important thing is that he was able to see

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Speaker 1: from our conversation the connection between his inability to set

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Speaker 1: boundaries as a child and that feeling of helplessness, and

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Speaker 1: then not being able to do that as an adult

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Speaker 1: and realizing that he is free to do that now

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Speaker 1: he isn't shackled in that way. And I think when

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Speaker 1: people make those connections, that's the first step in really

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Speaker 1: setting themselves free and being able to set expectations for

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Speaker 1: what they want in their relationships.

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Speaker 2: I completely agree, and I think after a year you

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Speaker 2: can see not just what he understood and is applying,

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Speaker 2: but what he really internalized. And what he's internalized is

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Speaker 2: the message here that boundaries are a statement about what

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Speaker 2: you won't accept, not about what the other person should do.

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Speaker 2: And that helps you because you can only be responsible

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Speaker 2: for setting the boundary, not for whether they listen to it.

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Speaker 2: You might have to keep setting it. And he really

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Speaker 2: got that, and it sounds like he doesn't get triggered

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Speaker 2: when that happens occasionally with Sharon anymore. He very calm

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Speaker 2: about it because he understands that's not a reflection on him.

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Speaker 2: That he'll just repeat the boundary, and then sure enough

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Speaker 2: she actually comes to him and says, at some point Oh,

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Speaker 2: I was gonna text you, but I didn't because I

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Speaker 2: know you don't like it. So there's the proof of

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Speaker 2: the pudding that he really got it, and he was

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Speaker 2: so consistent that she finally got it.

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Speaker 1: And what he did so beautifully was he maintained the boundary.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people feel like, if I

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Speaker 1: set the boundary and then the other person violates my boundary,

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Speaker 1: then the boundary has failed. And what people start to

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Speaker 1: discover about boundaries is that they need to be maintained.

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Speaker 1: That simply and clearly. You need to repeat the boundary,

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Speaker 1: often for quite a while in the beginning, until the

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Speaker 1: person really gets it. And it sounds like even when

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Speaker 1: Sharon tested those boundaries, he was able to stay clear

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Speaker 1: about what his boundary was.

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Speaker 2: And I know that a lot of our listeners have

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Speaker 2: issues with boundaries, A because we hear from them about that,

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Speaker 2: and b because given our work, we know that a

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Speaker 2: lot of people have trouble setting boundaries. And again, the

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Speaker 2: typical mistake is they might set the boundary, but then

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Speaker 2: they don't maintain it. What we're hearing from Paul is

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Speaker 2: that once he learned to do it in one domain,

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Speaker 2: in one relationship, he's been able to do it in others.

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Speaker 2: And I think the tip for our listeners here is

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Speaker 2: that this is a skill set. If you need to

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Speaker 2: develop it, start with the easiest people with whom you

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Speaker 2: can set the boundary and maintain it. And once you've

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Speaker 2: acquired the skill set and see that it works despite

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Speaker 2: the emotional discomfort of having to repeatedly set the boundary,

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Speaker 2: that gives you more confidence to then apply it in

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Speaker 2: other relationships.

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Speaker 1: And what Paul said is really important that it can

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Speaker 1: be scary to set boundaries, especially in the beginning, if

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Speaker 1: you haven't had the experience of people respecting your wants

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Speaker 1: or your needs earlier in life. And I'm so glad

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Speaker 1: that he acknowledged that, because I think that a lot

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Speaker 1: of people feel like, well, what's wrong with me that

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Speaker 1: I'm so scared to set a boundary? And I think

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Speaker 1: you see with Paul, he was afraid, he pushed through

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Speaker 1: and it really worked out well for him. So I

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Speaker 1: hope that listeners will go back and listen to the

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Speaker 1: episode Paul's Inappropriate Boss here where he was back then

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Speaker 1: and learned something about themselves and how they can set

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Speaker 1: boundaries from Paul's experience, and.

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Speaker 2: It's funny because Paul said when I relistened to the episode,

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Speaker 2: I learned something new. Each time there's a new layer

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Speaker 2: that he discovers, and I think our listeners will have

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Speaker 2: the same experience. But Laurie, I want to tell you something.

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Speaker 2: I listened to one of our episodes a few days

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Speaker 2: ago from last season, and I heard new layers and

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Speaker 2: some of the things that you were saying. In other words,

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Speaker 2: you can't attend to all the information all at once.

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Speaker 2: Every time you listen, you learn something. These are episodes

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Speaker 2: that are worth re listening to, especially if you have

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Speaker 2: some kind of issue, some kind of difficulty in that

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Speaker 2: similar domain. Next week, a woman who has elaborate revenge

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Speaker 2: fantasies about the people in her life wants to understand

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Speaker 2: why she does this and how she can stop.

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Speaker 5: I have no training and how to have a positive conversation.

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Speaker 5: I think it's feeling shameful as a grown woman that

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Speaker 5: I can't defend myself, and so I shake all it

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Speaker 5: bout hurt and I channel it towards these letters.

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Speaker 1: If you're enjoying our podcast, don't forget to subscribe for

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Speaker 1: free so that you don't miss any episodes, and please

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Speaker 1: help support Dear Therapists by telling your friends about it

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Speaker 1: and leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. Your reviews really

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Speaker 1: help people to find the show.

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Speaker 2: If you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with us,

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Speaker 2: email us at Laurie and Guy at iHeartMedia dot com.

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Speaker 2: Our executive producer is Noel Brown. We're produced and edited

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Speaker 2: by Josh Fisher. Additional editing support by Helena Rosen, John

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Speaker 2: Washington and Zachary Fisher. Our interns are Ben Bernstein, Emily

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Speaker 2: Gucierrez and Silver Lifton. And special thanks to our podcast

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Speaker 2: fairy Godmother Katie Curic. We can't wait to see you

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Speaker 2: at our next session. Deotherapist is a production of iHeartRadio

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Speaker 4: FID