1 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: Hey, Drilled listeners, I wanted to bring you this episode 2 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: of Damages, our new show, because it's about Ecuador and 3 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: dovetails with our season on the Chevron Ecuador case back 4 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: in season five. This episode gets into Ecuador's history as 5 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: a leader in the rights of nature movement. It was 6 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: the first country to bake rates of nature into its constitution. 7 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: That happened under Rafael Correa, right around the time that 8 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: things were starting to really shift around the Chevron Ecuador 9 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 1: case down there. The Constitutional Court in Ecuador just released 10 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: a ruling in late twenty twenty one that was pretty 11 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: groundbreaking and has really started to spark some interesting changes 12 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: in both climate law in general and rights of nature 13 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: across the board. We get into all of that and 14 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: more in this episode. I hope you enjoy it, and 15 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: please go and check out Damages. We're doing some really 16 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: exciting work over there, and I want you guys to 17 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: listen to it. If you're not already subscribed to our 18 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: newsletter or our Patreon, you can do that at either 19 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: Patreon dot com slash Drilled or Drilled podcast dot com. 20 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: In both cases, you get ad free and bonus episodes 21 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: delivered to your inbox. Plus weekly write ups on whatever 22 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 1: I'm reporting that week, so check that out. You can 23 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: also support us by leaving a reading or review wherever 24 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 1: you're listening to your podcasts. It actually really helps a lot, 25 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 1: so it's a great way to support us. Thanks for 26 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: listening and for supporting the show and all of our work, 27 00:01:40,800 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: and I hope you enjoy this episode. Welcome back to Damages. 28 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: I'm Amy Westervelt. So far this season we've looked at 29 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: how rights of nature has worked in both tribal court 30 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 1: and district courts in the United States. 31 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 2: What would the law have to look like to correspond 32 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 2: to a state of affairs in which the river had rights? 33 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 3: The suit would have to be brought in the name 34 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 3: of the river. 35 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 4: The river would be the planet, not Jones. 36 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: But for most folks, if they've heard about rights of 37 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 1: nature at all, it's not because of how the idea 38 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: has played out in the US, but because of how 39 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 1: it took hold in South America, particularly in Ecuador Monica. 40 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: Firietinta mentioned this in our last episode. 41 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 5: You know, it is quite unique in the world. The 42 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 5: constitution in Ecuador has this acknowledgement that nature has rights, 43 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 5: something that doesn't exist in other constitutions. 44 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: In two thousand and eight, Ecuador became the first country 45 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: in the world to write rights of nature into its constitution. Today, 46 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: we're going to look at how that came about and 47 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 1: why we're just now starting to see rulings come out 48 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: of Ecuador that are shaping how the whole world understands 49 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: rights of nature. We're going to time travel a bit first, 50 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: all the way back to the nineteen seventies when the 51 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: oil industry first arrived in Ecuador. 52 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 5: Joye sa lugar A in Nagosto. 53 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: This is Louis Yanza. He moved to the Oriente area 54 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: of the Ecuadorian Amazon, that's in the eastern part of 55 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: the country as a kid in the seventies. He says, 56 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: when he stepped off the bus in Lago Agrio, the 57 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: largest city in the area at the time, the streets 58 00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: were literally filled with oil, as in there was oil 59 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: running down the streets. He stepped onto a street of oils. 60 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 5: A Sosan in Yominama de. 61 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: Jansa says growing up he would see big black clouds 62 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: in the distance nuez neingras. He didn't know what caused them, 63 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: but he found out later it was the oil refineries. 64 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: In the area. Later he would see pits filled with 65 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: wastewater and oil in the jungle as well. All of that, 66 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 1: the oil streets, the black clouds, the waste pits, who 67 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 1: created them and whose responsibility it was to clean them 68 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 1: up became the focus of a massive lawsuit that started 69 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety three against the American oil company Texaco. 70 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 4: Whether you drive on many come back a medium sized 71 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 4: gar or a magnificent limousine, you can trust Texico to 72 00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 4: have the great gasolines exactly right. 73 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 1: That suit lasted through an acquisition Chevron acquired Texico in 74 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: two thousand, multiple trials and settlements and appeals in courts 75 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: in multiple countries. There are aspects of that case that 76 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: are still going on today. It's long and really really complicated. 77 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: I did a whole twelve part podcast about it on 78 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 1: my other show Drilled. But for our purposes today, it's 79 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 1: important to understand a few key things about that case. First, 80 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: that some indigenous communities in the Amazon were literally obliterated 81 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 1: by foreign oil companies in the seventies. Foreign companies started 82 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: an oil industry in Ecuador that was many, many times 83 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: more harmful and polluting than they would ever dare to 84 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: be back home. Then it's important to note that the 85 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: election of a new Ecuadorian president changed the course of 86 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: that case and the country's relationship to oil. And finally 87 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: that Chevron technically lost that case, but instead of paying 88 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: or cleaning up the oil pits, they took the lawyers 89 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: to court and halt the government of Ecuador in front 90 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: of an international arbitration tribunal for daring to let its 91 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: citizens sue Chevron. In a word, colonialism, or to put 92 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: a finer point on it, oil colonialism. Oil colonialism has 93 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: cast a black cloud over the economy and government of 94 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 1: Ecuador for fifty years. So imagine how exciting it was 95 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: for Ecuadorians in two thousand and six to have someone 96 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: running for president who promised to do something about it. 97 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: Remember this was during a time period when George W. 98 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 1: Bush was the President of the United States. 99 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 6: Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so were we. 100 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 6: They never stopped thinking about new ways to harm our 101 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 6: country and our people, and neither do we. 102 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: And Latin America was taking a big swing to the left. 103 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 7: The forty six year old Morales won the presidency in 104 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 7: December with more popular support than any Bolivian president in decades. 105 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 7: He's the latest in a string of left leaning leaders 106 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 7: to assume power in South America in what many see 107 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 7: as a backlash against US backed free market policies. 108 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: In Bolivia and Brazil, socialist presidents had just been elected, 109 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: and of course, in Venezuela, Hugo Chavez was the favorite 110 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: socialist boogeyman of the capitalist West. Ecuador was poised to 111 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: take a hard left too. When Chavez made international headlines 112 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: calling Bush the devil, Ecuador's socialist candidate, Rafael Goria said 113 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: that was an insult to the devil. Coorea made indigenous 114 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: rights a campaign promise, and he vowed to renegotiate the 115 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: country's contracts with foreign oil companies. That made him a 116 00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: huge threat to American corporate interests, but wildly popular with 117 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: the people of Ecuador. Correa's anti establishment campaign didn't mince words. 118 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: He called the Congress a sewer and vowed to overrun 119 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: the old Guard with a citizen revolution. He was elected 120 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: in two thousand and six, and just two years later 121 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: made good on his campaign promises. He amended the constitution 122 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: to include indigenous rights, a whole host of other sorts 123 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: of civil rights and yep, you guessed it. Rights of nature. 124 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: It was the first time any country in the world 125 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: had put rights of nature in its constitution. 126 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,719 Speaker 5: Bersonalmente jobingo di Narelida. 127 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: This is Alberto Costa, an economist and the former Minister 128 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: of Energy and Mining for Ecuador. He says he spent 129 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: a lot of years believing that nature was a subordinate object, 130 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: a resource to be used for development or the economy, 131 00:08:52,800 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: that it must be controlled by human beings. And then years, 132 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: he says, and his thinking changed. He came to realize 133 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: that his view of the world, a view that's still 134 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: shared by much of the rest of the world, was 135 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: completely wrong. Acosta went on to actually help write those 136 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: amendments to the Constitution in two thousand and eight, which 137 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: was a big deal both for Ecuador and for rights 138 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,959 Speaker 1: of nature advocates all over the world who started to 139 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: look at Ecuador as a place to test out the 140 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 1: idea of using rights of nature to hold corporations accountable. 141 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: In one of the very first cases, activists sued the 142 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 1: government on behalf of a river that was being impacted 143 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 1: by a developer and the river one Then the deep 144 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: Water Horizons Bill happened in the Gulf of Mexico. 145 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:00,319 Speaker 3: The gusher unleashed in the Gulf of Mexico continue used 146 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 3: to spew crude oil. There are no reliable estimates of 147 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 3: how much oil is pouring into the gulf, but it 148 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 3: comes to many millions of gallons since the catastrophic blowout. 149 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: And some folks had the idea of filing a case 150 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:14,079 Speaker 1: in Ecuador about it. 151 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 8: Environmentalist organizations from five countries file a complaint on November 152 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 8: twenty six against British Petroleum VP for the spill of 153 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 8: over five million oil burrows and the environmental damage linked 154 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 8: to that spill in the Gulf of Mexico. The complaint 155 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 8: was filed before an Ecuador's court because this is the 156 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 8: only country that recognizes nature as a subject and protects 157 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 8: its rights in its constitution. 158 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: If Ecuador's constitution protected mother nature, was that really just 159 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: limited to ecosystems within the country's borders. It was an 160 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: interesting test of Ecuador's rights of nature law, but ultimately unsuccessful. 161 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: The case was thrown out for lack of jurisdiction, and 162 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: then not much happened on rights of nature for a while, 163 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: no big cases but Correa. Yeah, he kept turning up 164 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: in the news. 165 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 2: Planter com promiso then no explotade cercas. 166 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:15,439 Speaker 8: Petrolium. 167 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: The international press could not get enough of this plan 168 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: he had hatched to protect the Amazon, specifically Yasuni Park, 169 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,559 Speaker 1: where an enormous oil reservoir had been found beneath an 170 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: exceptionally fragile part of the forest. Corea tried to sidestep 171 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: the oil curse. Instead of having to decide whether to 172 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: preserve the forest or get the oil money, Correa proposed 173 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: something along the lines of climate debt. Developed countries should 174 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: pay Ecuador not to extract that oil. For just three 175 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 1: point six billion dollars over thirty teen years, Ecuador would 176 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: agree to leave it in the ground, avoiding more than 177 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: four hundred and seventy three million tons of CO two emissions. 178 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: It also would have protected one of the most biodiverse 179 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: places on the planet. Five years later, though, Korea was 180 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: announcing a shockingly different plan to the country. 181 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 4: So Alassemble nal. 182 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 9: I asked the National Assembly a national interest to explore 183 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 9: for oil in Yasuni. But listen well, people of Ecuador, 184 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 9: especially my dear young people. Exploration will effect less than 185 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 9: one percent of Yasuni Park. 186 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: Jessuoni Developed Nations had only kicked in thirty million dollars 187 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: to preserve the Ecuadorian Amazon, and Korea's argument was that 188 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: he couldn't say no to the economic development the country 189 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: so desperately needed just to save a forest for a 190 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: lot of people. This officially marked the end of Korea's 191 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: commitments to indigenous communities and the environment. By this point 192 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: in his presidency, Korea had already survived a coup attempt 193 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: and various corruption scandals. Chevron had gone after him really 194 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: hard for supporting the case against it in Ecuador, and 195 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: he was coming to grips with the fact that his 196 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: country's economy had become entirely dependent on oil money. He 197 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: couldn't turn that off immediately and risk plunging the country 198 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: deeper into poverty. And he couldn't allow more drilling without 199 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: harming indigenous communities and the ecosystem. It's kind of like 200 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 1: the position a lot of countries are finding themselves in today. 201 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: So Korea went for a plan that made nobody happy, 202 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: just a little bit of drilling. He moved forward with 203 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: plans to drill in just one percent of Yesudy, which 204 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: he thought was a great compromise, but it disappointed both 205 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: environmentalists and indigenous leaders, and even the people who were 206 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: for oil drilling didn't get what they wanted. Over the years, 207 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: Kurea got kind of bitter about the whole thing. Are 208 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: we really going to put nature's rights over helping the poor? 209 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 5: He asked. 210 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: He complained about quote infantile environmentalism and people who just 211 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: couldn't accept trade offs. Between the coup attempt and the 212 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: various scandals plaguing his administration. From twenty ten until he 213 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: left office in twenty seventeen, Kuda's government was marked by instability, 214 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: and that included the courts too. His successor, President Lenin Moreno, 215 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: made it his goal to strengthen the country's institutions. In 216 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, he tasked a Council of Citizen Participation with 217 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: appointing nine new judges to the Constitutional Court. Those judges 218 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: announced that they would take on several rights of nature cases. 219 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: For the first time in years. 220 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 10: This particular court has prioritized rights of nature specifically, and 221 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 10: they I've selected a few cases to concentrate on so 222 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 10: that the parameters of rights of nature, how it is 223 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 10: applied in practical. 224 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 11: Ways, the scope of the law. 225 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: Is worked out. This is Melissa Troutman. She's a journalist 226 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: and co founder of the investigative news outlet Public Herald 227 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: in the United States. She made a documentary film about 228 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: rights of nature called Invisible Hand that came out in 229 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, and she's been following the rights of nature 230 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: movement for several years. 231 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 10: And one of those cases before the Constitutional Court of 232 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 10: Ecuador is a case to protect Los Adro's Forest. 233 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: Reserved from mining. 234 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 10: It's a very, very ecologically diverse forest that will be 235 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 10: gone if concessions for mining put forth by the Ecuadorian 236 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 10: government will go through. 237 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: Losdros is a cloud forest that's a type of rain 238 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: forest with dense tree canopies and constant precipitation that looks 239 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: kind of like clouds. It's one of the most biodiverse 240 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: forests in the world and is home to several endangered species, 241 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: including the very adorable brown headed spider monkey. It's also 242 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: already listed as a protected forest in Ecuador, so a 243 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: lot of environmentalists in the country we're asking, if you 244 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: can mine in a protected forest, what does the protected 245 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: label even mean? It's important politically too. The Losros case 246 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: didn't just come before the court after new justices had 247 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: been put in place. It came before the Court during 248 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: a much more business friendly presidency. President Guillermo Lasso vowed 249 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: to expand mining and oil extraction in the country and 250 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: has so far done just that. Tossing mining permits in 251 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: Los Adros could shut down mining in any of the 252 00:16:56,280 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: country's protected forests, and it could put both Lasso and 253 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: various companies on notice about the court's intention to actually 254 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: enforce rights of nature. That story coming up after the break. 255 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 12: Are you looking for a country with naively low mining regulations, 256 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 12: zero red tape and I responsibly low taxes, Look no further, 257 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 12: introducing a fibulus once in a lifetime opportunity to open 258 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 12: your very own mind in the most biodiverse country on 259 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 12: the planet, and there is literally nowhere you can't mind. 260 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: This is from a parody ad that some environmental groups 261 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 1: made around the time that the Losedro's case was going 262 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 1: to court. 263 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 12: Los Cedros ready to mind, Sabu good to blow, John 264 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 12: tal for grabs. 265 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 1: The complaint in the lo Aro's case centers on a 266 00:17:55,160 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen policy change that allowed mining on six million 267 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: million acres in Ecuador, including more than half of Los Adros. 268 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: It was thought to be a quick move to replace 269 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: declining oil revenues with mining money. Lossros was originally given 270 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 1: protected for a status because it's home to so many 271 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: rare and endangered species, dozens of them, so environmentalists immediately 272 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: questioned the permits there. Environmental groups began working with indigenous 273 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: leaders in the area and filed their case invoking rights 274 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: of nature to block the mining permits in Los Adros. 275 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: In twenty nineteen, the provincial court agreed with the activists 276 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: mining Los Aedros was a clear rights of nature violation. 277 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 1: The mining companies appealed that decision and headed to the 278 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: constitutional court in twenty twenty, here's Alberto Costa again. 279 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 13: Lub deel Castle and Auviencia de los CROs so presentaron 280 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 13: persola scientificos, the scientificas they received as partes der mundo. 281 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 1: He says, scientists from all over the world testified to 282 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,199 Speaker 1: defend the spider monkeys, the plant, the water, and it 283 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:10,679 Speaker 1: was great, magnificent. Even Junta sajimos defendlas. We continue to 284 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: defend isolated situations, He says, this wonderful protected forest of Losdros, 285 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 1: But why not all the forests, Why not all the 286 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 1: forests and all the moors. Why not all the water 287 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: sources already for a cost of protecting entire ecosystems would 288 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: be more in keeping with the intention of rates of nature, 289 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: not just one case, one place at a time. But 290 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: there's that problem again of shoehorning this very different view 291 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: of nature into a Western court system. The courts in Ecuador, 292 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,439 Speaker 1: like those in the US, work case by case, so 293 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: it's hard to make big shifts in philosophy. You can't 294 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 1: really say, forget specifics, let's litigate how we treat forests overall. 295 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: Although rights of nature cases still have to be litigated 296 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: one at a time, Los Cedros was seen as a 297 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: case that could set enough of a precedent to protect 298 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 1: lots of other forests. So scientists and lawyers from all 299 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: over the world zoomed in to testify before the Constitutional 300 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 1: Court in Ecuador on behalf of Los. 301 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 14: Cedros Representantes de Las or the Nisaciones Air Law Center, 302 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 14: Global Alliance for the Rights of Nature, Center of Biological Diversity, 303 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 14: International Drivers, Great Lakes Environmental and Loss. 304 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: And then it was a waiting game until finally, in 305 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: December twenty twenty one. 306 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 7: La Corte Constitutions Delos. 307 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 5: Hello, this is Jane Goodul. Last week there was some 308 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,919 Speaker 5: wonderful news for those of us who are fighting to 309 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:12,479 Speaker 5: protect the natural world. The Ecuadorian Constitutional Court, in a 310 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,959 Speaker 5: landmark ruling, agreed that the government should revoke the mining 311 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 5: permits that it had granted for exploration in the Las 312 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 5: Cidrus Protected Forest in order to uphold the rights of nature. 313 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: The Cloud forest. 314 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 13: One huge news the court not only rejected the mining 315 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 13: permits for those the there's it made some pretty broad 316 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 13: judgments in its ruling that will help protect other forests too. 317 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: I called up Constanza Prieto, the Latin America legal director 318 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: for Earth Law Center, to get some more details. 319 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:57,719 Speaker 11: Well, we decide to intervene in Lossdros because it was 320 00:21:58,000 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 11: such an important case. 321 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: Trieto is a expert on rates of nature and she 322 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 1: says the Lossro's ruling will impact not just future rates 323 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: of nature cases, but also how the government thinks through 324 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: permitting for things like mining and ohiel drilling, how rates 325 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: of nature might come into play earlier on in the process. 326 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 11: What the is very important because they talk about the forest, 327 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 11: but not only the first about also the university and 328 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 11: also about the water. They explain what means for the 329 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 11: authorities all these rules. It's even like a class of 330 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 11: what should mean for the authorities, also for the judge 331 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:45,640 Speaker 11: and also for the legislative power, what means our rate 332 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 11: of nature? 333 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: This is really key. This ruling sets a precedent, and 334 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,440 Speaker 1: the court used this opportunity to not just say yes 335 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: Los thero's wins, no mining there, but also to say, 336 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,919 Speaker 1: this is how authority should think about rates of nature 337 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,719 Speaker 1: in these situations, and this is how policymakers and the 338 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: courts should think of it. 339 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 11: So that is the main importance of the case. And 340 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 11: also because such an important subject mining. 341 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:17,399 Speaker 1: Mining is a hot subject in Ecuador, in particular, since 342 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: that twenty seventeen law change that opened up millions of 343 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: acres to mining. The government has granted permits for more 344 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: than seven million acres in Ecuador, and a lot of 345 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: those acres are in protected forests. So the court's decision 346 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: to throw out the mining permits in loss Thro's could 347 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 1: reverberate through the economy in a big way. 348 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 11: That is a biggest statement to say, like no mining 349 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 11: activities or similar to mine activities now on the future 350 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 11: can be in this kind of force. 351 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: It's really it's a pretty sweeping ruling no mining activities 352 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: or activities similar to mining can be done in this 353 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: kind of forest, But Preeto says it's not exactly the 354 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 1: blanket ruling in might seem to be. It's not saying 355 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 1: no mining in protected for us ever period. 356 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 11: It's not clear. I think I suppose so well be 357 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 11: cased by case, but I suppose a more fragile or 358 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 11: vo diverse ecosystem will not allow this kind of destructive mining. 359 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,200 Speaker 1: So at least in the most fragile and biodiverse ecosystems, 360 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 1: it seems pretty certain that mining won't be allowed. If 361 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,959 Speaker 1: Ecuadorian President gir Molasso had his way, the ruling wouldn't 362 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: impact anything outside of Los ae CROs. The businessman president 363 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: has pinned his hopes for building Ecuador's economy on mining, 364 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: and there's an interesting twist here. At least some of 365 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: that mining will feed into the international supply chain for 366 00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: renewable energy and electric vehicles. In an interview with The 367 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 1: Financial Times, Lasso said that Ecuador's deposits of copper and 368 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: other valuable metals need to be mined to support the 369 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 1: global energy transition away from fossil fuels. This is a 370 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: super interesting problem facing the entire world at the moment. 371 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 1: As we turn towards electrification as part of the solution 372 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 1: to climate change, how does that system rely on the 373 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: same extract of processes that led to the climate crisis 374 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 1: in the first place, and what can be done to 375 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 1: address the impact of those processes. Lasso has also okayed 376 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: a lot of oil development, and it's unclear just how 377 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 1: much of the country's planned mining is actually connected to 378 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: electrification or how committed to that energy transition the president 379 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 1: actually is. But Lasso told the FT that he planned 380 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: to try to win over public opinion by quote explaining 381 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 1: what kind of mining this is, responsible, sustainable mining, and 382 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 1: defending the greater interest of the majority of Ecuadorians above 383 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: the political interests of indigenous leaders. Meanwhile, just a few 384 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,719 Speaker 1: weeks after the Lesdros decision, the Constitutional Court dealt Lasso 385 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: another potential blow in the same round of constitutional amendments 386 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 1: that added rights of nature to Ecuador's constitution back in 387 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight. Remember, the country also added various 388 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: specific rights for indigenous communities. One of those rights was 389 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: the right to free, prior and informed consultation around development 390 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: or extraction projects, taking place in their lands. In February 391 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,679 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, the court ruled that some indigenous communities' 392 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:53,360 Speaker 1: rights to this type of consultation had been violated by 393 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 1: various oil projects. The court called for stronger protections to 394 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,879 Speaker 1: guarantee indigenous communities rights to decide over extractive projects in 395 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 1: their territories. The one to two punch of Los Sedros 396 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: and this indigenous rights ruling sends a clear signal to 397 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 1: Lasso and to extractive industries. Ecuador's new court plans to 398 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 1: take its constitution, including rights of nature and indigenous rights seriously. 399 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 1: The tension between colonial governments and indigenous nations is something 400 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,199 Speaker 1: that often crops up in rights of nature cases, and 401 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, rights of nature laws are 402 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 1: seen as something of an attempt to bridge the two. 403 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: That was certainly the case in New Zealand, where a 404 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: massive rights of nature case became the first step toward 405 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 1: healing the harms done by colonialism. That's our story next week. 406 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 2: The kanundrum in the case is that the people lived 407 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,880 Speaker 2: in the environment. You know, it's quite it was quite 408 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 2: amusing for them to say, you know, the government owns 409 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,479 Speaker 2: and controls this area and the people were saying, well, 410 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,159 Speaker 2: we live there, so you don't own it and you 411 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 2: don't control it. One of the key witnesses for me, 412 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,679 Speaker 2: he described it in our language, is tutor. It as 413 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 2: my mother and my father. It's where I grew up. 414 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 2: It's where I go to pray. It's where I go 415 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 2: to partake of food that nourishes me and my future generations. 416 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 2: So for you to suggest that you can own my 417 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 2: mother and my father, it's completely entathetical to our ideology 418 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 2: or our relationships to that environment. 419 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: Come back for that, Thanks for listening, and we'll see 420 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: you next time. Damages is an original Critical Frequency production. 421 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: Our editor and senior producer is Sarah Ventry. Sound designed 422 00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: by Repaying, mixing and mastering by Mark Busch. Our fact 423 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: checker is wou dan Yan. Our First Amendment attorney is 424 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: James Wheaton of the First Amendment Project. Our artwork was 425 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: done by Matt Fleming. Our theme song is Bird in 426 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: the Hand by Forenoon. Archival in this episode is courtesy 427 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: of National Public Radio and Vanderbilt University. Damages is made 428 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: possible in part by a generous grant from the File Foundation. 429 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: We appreciate their support. If you're enjoying this podcast, Please 430 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: rate or review it wherever you're listening.