1 00:00:01,560 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to Wrongful Conviction, False Confessions. I'm Laura and I writer. 2 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 2: And I'm Steve Drisen. 3 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: Today we're going to tell you about a case that 4 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: shows just how much ordinary people can help the wrongly 5 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: convicted find real justice, even when they start out as strangers. 6 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: In today's case, an unexpected hero fought for years to 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: turn tragedy into triumph, ending into one of the most 8 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: dramatic courtroom exonerations I've ever seen. Like so many of 9 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: our cases at the Center on Wrongful Convictions, Steve first 10 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: learned about Daniel Viegas through one of his infamous online searches. 11 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: By this time, I actually had my own newsfeed, and 12 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: so did our colleague Josh Tepfer. But Steve had his 13 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: own reasons for being particularly excited about this case. 14 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 2: So after all three of us read about a possible 15 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 2: false confession case in Alpasso, it seemed like destiny for 16 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 2: us to get involved in this case. You see, in 17 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 2: two thousand and six, al Passo was host to one 18 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 2: of the most important conferences in the history of false 19 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 2: confessions that brought together many of the leading experts on 20 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 2: the subject to the University of Texas. 21 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: For people like us. This is basically the Olympics meets Coachella. 22 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,559 Speaker 2: Who was there? Well, Donald Connery, the author of Peter 23 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 2: Riley's book, was there. 24 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: Steve's talking about a book called Guilty Until Proven Innocent. 25 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: We'll tell you that story in a later episode about 26 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: a false confession from nineteen seventy three, and Geisley. 27 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 2: Good Johnson, the famed Icelandic detective turned psychology professor at 28 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 2: King's College of London. 29 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: You might remember Geisley from our last episode. His scientific 30 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: expertise helped exonerate Tana Pora in New Zealand. 31 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 2: Richard Offshe and Richard Leo and Saul Cassen some of 32 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,919 Speaker 2: the leading experts in the United States on false confessions. 33 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 3: There. 34 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: We're going to hear from saulcasm in another episode two. 35 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: All of these guys are og experts in the world 36 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: of false confessions. They're Steve's heroes and mine too. So 37 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 1: if I've turned into a geek here, you know who 38 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 1: to blame. 39 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 2: This conference was a watershed moment in the history of 40 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 2: false confessions and the idea of going back to El 41 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 2: Paso to work on an actual false confession case. It 42 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 2: just seemed like destiny to me. 43 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: This story starts in El Paso, a border city in 44 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: West Texas. Now, in the early nineteen nineties, El Casso 45 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 1: was a different place than it is today. The crime 46 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: rate was sky high. There was lots of gang activity, 47 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,239 Speaker 1: street violence was a daily problem, and in some neighborhoods, 48 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 1: shootings were regular occurrences. We start our story in the 49 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: early morning hours of April tenth, nineteen ninety three. Good Friday. 50 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,399 Speaker 1: It's just after midnight, and four teenagers are walking home 51 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: from a party and they find themselves in a rough neighborhood. 52 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:02,679 Speaker 1: Three of them, Manda Lazo, Juan Carlo's Medina, and Jesse Hernandez. 53 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: We're seventeen years old. The fourth, Bobby England, was eighteen. 54 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 1: All of them were good kids, none of them were 55 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: caught up in gangs or the street life. But they 56 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: ran into trouble anyway. At the intersection of Electric Street 57 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: and trans Mountain Road. That's where a maroon car with 58 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: tinted windows rolls up behind them and starts following them slowly. Now, 59 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: just as the four of them start to get scared, 60 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: the car takes off. It speeds away, but a few 61 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: minutes later it comes back, and this time the driver 62 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: turns off the headlights. Words are shouted from the car 63 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: in Spanish, possibly an insult keeputos, and then a series 64 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: of shots ring out, one right after another. One and 65 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: Jesse take off running as a matter of sheer instinct, 66 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: and they think that their two friends are running away 67 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: alongside them. But when One and Jesse feel that they've 68 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: run far enough that it's safe to slow down, they 69 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: look around them and they don't see Mondo or Bobby 70 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: with them at all. Take a deep breath, go back 71 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: to the scene of the shooting, and they see police 72 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: lights flashing. Bobby had been shot in the head and 73 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: died in the street. Mondo had been shot in the 74 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: stomach and the thigh. He made it one hundred yards 75 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: to a house up the street, where he collapsed in 76 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,679 Speaker 1: the front yard and died as the residents frantically dialed 77 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 1: nine one one. Now, the police found six shells from 78 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: a twenty two caliber handgun littered on the street right 79 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: where the car had pulled over. But that's about it 80 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: in terms of evidence. There were no fingerprints, no DNA, 81 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 1: nothing forensic to help them solve this crime. It was 82 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: going to have to come down to confessions. 83 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,359 Speaker 2: The Alpasso Police assigned one of the toughest cops on 84 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 2: the force to the Good Friday shooting, an officer whose 85 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 2: name we can't share, but an officer who was known 86 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 2: as a closer. 87 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: This guy is so tough he's even been featured on 88 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: the TV show Cops. 89 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 2: Now, what's a closer. A closer is someone who is 90 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:59,559 Speaker 2: very skilled at police interrogation. A good closer will gather 91 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 2: evid and then slowly reveal that evidence to a suspect, 92 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 2: like peeling off layers of an onion, so that the 93 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 2: suspect feels like he is nabbed, his goose is cooked, 94 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 2: and that leads the suspect to confess. But there are 95 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 2: other kinds of closers. Closers who use brutality and threats, 96 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 2: and they don't only use these tactics with suspects. Their 97 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 2: modus operandi is to use these tactics with suspects, with 98 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 2: witnesses and sometimes with victims, and they get statements, but 99 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 2: those statements are coerced and false statements. This detective, he 100 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 2: was in that second camp exactly. 101 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: So the closer is brought in right, this detective from 102 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: the Al Paso Police Force. He begins investigating the case, 103 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: and pretty soon he comes across a seventeen year old 104 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: boy named David Rongel. David is brought into the police 105 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: station in theory about a completely different case. The police 106 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: had told his mom that they needed to talk to 107 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: Davide about some telephone harassment complaints, but when questioning actually began, 108 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 1: it had nothing to do with telephone harassment. Police began 109 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: accusing Davide of committing the Good Friday shootings. Now later on, 110 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 1: Davide said that the police falsely told him during this 111 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: interrogation that his friends had implicated him, and Davide himself 112 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: was threatened. He says he was told that he was 113 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: a pretty white boy with green eyes who would be 114 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: raped in prison if he didn't confess. This scares David. 115 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: Then eventually he starts offering some information. He tells police 116 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: that his sixteen year old cousin, Daniel Viegas, had been 117 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: bragging about committing the Good Friday shootings, although he added 118 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: that everyone was sure Daniel had been joking. You see, 119 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 1: Daniel had a reputation as a jokester. He was the 120 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: type of kid who always boasted about things he hadn't 121 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 1: actually done. Daniel had bragged about owning a water bed 122 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: when he didn't. He'd bragged about owning a fancy stereo 123 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: when he didn't. He'd even bragged about being ascended from 124 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 1: Italian Royalty when he definitely wasn't. 125 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 2: I want to be descended from Italian Royalty, me. 126 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: Too, but that kind of looks just ain't for us. Steve. Anyway, 127 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: when it came to the Good Friday shootings, Davide never 128 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: believed Daniel Tobi Sirius, not even for a minute. It 129 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: just wasn't him. Daniel had nothing serious like this in 130 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: his background. 131 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 2: Just like criminals have a modus operandi, many times closers 132 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 2: or interrogators have a modus operandi, and in David's case 133 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 2: we saw evidence that we later were able to demonstrate 134 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 2: was a modus operandi. Almost always, this interrogator would tell 135 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 2: the suspect that his best friend or close associate had implicated. 136 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: Him in the crime, even if that's une true right. 137 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 2: Always untrue right. He would threaten the suspect with the 138 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 2: death penalty, and he also told the suspects or the 139 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 2: witnesses or the victims in this case, that they were 140 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 2: going to go to prison, and they were going to 141 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 2: be raped. I mean, if you're a seventeen year old kid, 142 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 2: and most of these witnesses were teenagers, and you're told 143 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 2: that you're looking at going to an adult jail where 144 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 2: you're going to be a rape victim, you're going to 145 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 2: say just about anything you need to get out of 146 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 2: that interrogation. 147 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: It's terrifying stuff. And for David, the information he gave 148 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: was that his cousin Daniel, had been joking about committing 149 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,679 Speaker 1: the Good Friday shooting. He never believed Daniel to be serious, 150 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: but this information was enough for the police. They asked 151 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: Devid to write out a statement describing what Daniel had said. 152 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: David wrote that Daniel had bragged about using a shotgun 153 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: to commit the shootings, but the detective had David take 154 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: that part out and write the statement a second time 155 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: without mentioning the type of weapon, because remember, the shells 156 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: at the scene had come from a twenty two, not 157 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: a shotgun. Even with the detective's edits, David's statements still 158 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: contained errors. He remembered his cousin bragging about being in 159 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: a black car, not a maroon car, and Davide said 160 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: that Daniel described firing a few shots then getting out 161 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 1: of the car, chasing Mondo Lazo to the house and 162 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: shooting him again. There, that's just not how this crime happened. 163 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: The shots were all clustered together, not spaced out, and 164 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 1: there were no casings found near Mondo's body. But none 165 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 1: of us mattered. Now, this was a statement that da 166 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: Vide regretted giving. It haunted him for the rest of 167 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 1: his life that he'd implicated his own cousin in the 168 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: Good Friday shootings, when even he didn't believe that Daniel 169 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 1: was guilty. But it was a statement that he felt 170 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: he had no choice but to give in light of 171 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: the threats that he was encountering in the interrogation room. 172 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 2: So there are errors, errors in David's statement, errors in 173 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,319 Speaker 2: the statements of other witnesses, errors that the true perpetrator 174 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 2: would never have made. That's a red flag. 175 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: It's a huge red flag. But it doesn't stop these police. 176 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: Within hours, three more people are brought in for questioning 177 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: late at night on April twenty first, two friends of Daniel's, 178 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: Marcos Gonzalez and Rodney Williams, and Daniel himself. They're all questioned, 179 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 1: and when Daniel is interrogated, he denies involvement. He tells 180 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: the police he was babysitting that night with a group 181 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 1: of friends and they were all watching White Men Can't 182 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: Jump on TV. 183 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:11,599 Speaker 2: But here comes that modus operandi exactly. 184 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: Daniel reports being told that if he didn't confess, he 185 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: would be taken to the desert to get beaten, and 186 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: then to jail where he would be raped by old 187 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: men then sentenced to death by the electric chair. This 188 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: is how they scared Daniel. This is how they began 189 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: reducing him down to this feeling of hopelessness. But if 190 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: he confessed, on the other hand, he was told that 191 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: he would get leniency because he was just a minor. 192 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: And after about five hours of interrogation, Daniel ends up 193 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: signing a confession typed out by detectives. It's about three 194 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning. 195 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 2: He repeats the same errors that David Rangell had made, 196 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 2: but he makes other mistakes too. First of all, what 197 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,200 Speaker 2: about the people in the car? Daniel says the driver 198 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 2: was someone nicknamed Popeye and that the front passenger was 199 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 2: someone nicknamed Droopy. But the only known Popeye was incarcerated 200 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 2: at the time, and the only known Droopy he was 201 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 2: also on house arrested at the time, they could not 202 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 2: possibly have been in the car. The color of the car. 203 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,319 Speaker 2: Davide had said the car was black. Survivor Jesse Hernandez 204 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 2: he had said the car was maroon. Daniel said they 205 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 2: were in a white four door sedan at the time 206 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 2: of the shooting. And finally, Daniel said that he had 207 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 2: shot Bobby and Mondo in the back, but it was 208 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 2: clear from the medical examiner's report that they had been 209 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 2: shot from the front. 210 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 1: The more and more you study Daniel's confession, the more 211 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: you start to see a pattern. The only facts about 212 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 1: this murder that he was able to get right are 213 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: facts that had been publicized about the Good Friday shootings 214 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: in the local paper, the El Paso Times. Now, this 215 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 1: is a pretty big red flag when you can only 216 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: get facts right when you've read about them in the newspaper. 217 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: And there's another red flag in this case too. As 218 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: soon as the interrogator left the room, Daniel immediately recants 219 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: to a juvenile probation officer. I didn't do it, he said, 220 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: and he explained that he only confessed because the cops 221 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: kept harassing him. He said, I was tired, so I 222 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: told them what they wanted to hear. 223 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 2: And the police and prosecutors ran with that confession, even 224 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 2: though it was filled with many false facts and errors. 225 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: Despite the red flags in his confession, despite the recantation, 226 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,559 Speaker 1: despite the lack of any physical evidence connecting him to 227 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 1: the crime, Daniel Viegas is arrested and charged with capital murder. 228 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: He's sixteen years old. 229 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 2: Now. 230 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: Daniel didn't come from a family with a lot of money, 231 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:48,079 Speaker 1: but his parents managed somehow to scrape together ten thousand 232 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: dollars for an attorney. Daniel Viegas's first trial took place 233 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: in December nineteen ninety four. At that trial, Davide Wrangle testified, 234 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: but he maintained that Daniel had been obviously kidding when 235 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,959 Speaker 1: he'd bragged about the shooting. Rodney and Marcos, Daniel's friends, well, 236 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: they had given police statements implicating Daniel when they'd been questioned, 237 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: but on the witness stand they said their statements were 238 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: false and had been obtained through threats of prison, rape 239 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: and other similar threats. And Daniel's attorney called eighteen defense witnesses, 240 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: including several alibi witnesses, who testified that Daniel was with 241 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: them babysitting and watching TV at the time of the shooting. Right, 242 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 1: white men can't jump, And Daniel's attorney argued strenuously about 243 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 1: all these inconsistencies in Daniel's confession, how it just didn't 244 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: match the facts of this crime, how it showed every 245 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: indication of being false. 246 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 2: He even called other witnesses who called into question the 247 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 2: credibility of this detective, former prosecutors who had sought indictments 248 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:50,439 Speaker 2: for perjury. 249 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: The defense mounted a huge fight. They made every argument 250 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: they could. The trial lasted a week and at the 251 00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: end there was a hung jury eleven to one, but. 252 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 2: It was eleven to one in favor of a conviction, 253 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,839 Speaker 2: which gave the district attorney some thought that this would 254 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 2: be an easier case to convict the next time around. 255 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,079 Speaker 1: Sure enough, about nine months later, again, Daniel Veegiss tried 256 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: for the murders of Mondo and Bobby. But the second 257 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: trial was different. You see, Daniel's parents had spent every 258 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: penny they had on the first trial and they couldn't 259 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: afford a lawyer for the second trial. This time around, 260 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: Daniel was represented by a court appointed lawyer, someone who 261 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: had been assigned the case only two months before the 262 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: trial began, and so when the second trial rolled around, 263 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: that lawyer called only one defense witness, no alibi witnesses 264 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: at all. He hardly pointed to any problems with Daniel's confession, 265 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: even though he had a blueprint for success in the 266 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: form of the first trial. 267 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 2: And he didn't make a full frontal attack on the 268 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 2: integrity and credibility of the police officer who got these 269 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 2: unreliable statements. 270 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: And so on August twenty fourth, nineteen ninety five, Daniel 271 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: Viegas was convicted of capital murder. Because he'd been a 272 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: juvenile at the time of the offense, he wasn't sentenced 273 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: to death. Instead, he was given two life terms in prison, 274 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: one for Bobby and one for Mondo. Daniel was a 275 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: teenager when he went to prison, and he might still 276 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: be there today if it weren't for a man named 277 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: John Mimbella. Now, John is the head of a successful 278 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: El Paso construction firm, a firm that hired a lot 279 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: of formerly incarcerated people because John is a guy who 280 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: believes in second chances. One day in two thousand and five, 281 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: John Mimbela walks into an El Paso bank and he 282 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: ends up asking his teller, a woman named Lucy out 283 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: on a. 284 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 4: Date six months later, were buried. Lucy had three daughters 285 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 4: with Daniel's brother, so Daniel was actually Lucy's ex brother 286 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 4: in law. I adopted Lucy's daughters two years later, and 287 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 4: that's when I learned more about Daniel's. 288 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: Case now, and brought the girls to see their grandparents, 289 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: who were Daniel's parents, and eventually John started coming along too. 290 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: That's where he started to hear stories about their son, Daniel, 291 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 1: who was serving life in prison for two murders he 292 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: didn't commit. 293 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 4: At first, I thought, you know, any parents gonna not 294 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 4: want to accept that their son might be a killer. 295 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 4: I had a lot of faith also in our system, 296 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 4: you know, I always believe that if a jury found 297 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 4: you guilty, it must have been because they had plenty 298 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 4: of evidence against you. So I figured, hey, you know, 299 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 4: they must have all kinds of evidence on this kid 300 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 4: if they sentenced him to life. 301 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 2: John was skeptical, but he saw how heartbroken the grandparents 302 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 2: were and he agreed to read through the court papers. 303 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 2: Before long, he was dumb struck. There was no reliable 304 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 2: evidence tying Daniel to these shootings at all. And then 305 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 2: John Minbella became a man possessed. 306 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 4: I've got a couple of friends and I asked him 307 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 4: if they could set up a meeting with our DA 308 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 4: because I saw some serious problems in Daniel's conviction. Our 309 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 4: DA happened to be high Miss Barsa, and he personally 310 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 4: tried Daniel. So I figured, you know what, if there's 311 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 4: some mistake, if there's some doubt, you know, he's going 312 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 4: to reopen this case. So we had the meeting and 313 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 4: I told him, I go, you know what, I think 314 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 4: Daniel's innocent. Something's wronger, you know, we need to look 315 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 4: into it. This DA fought us a lot just to 316 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 4: get evidententry. Heering after he told me the Higher Good 317 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,199 Speaker 4: of Bills lawyer and opened up the case again. He 318 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:37,679 Speaker 4: fought us to the new. 319 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: Now this really fired John up. It didn't make any sense. 320 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: He starts paying for billboards around El Paso that' say 321 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: free Daniel Viegas. He starts organizing rallies and protests outside 322 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: the courthouse, and he hired a private investigator. 323 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 4: He read the transcripts and he was dumbfounded too. He 324 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 4: goes John, I was a homicide detective for twenty years. 325 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 4: This case would never have gone to trial. I would 326 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 4: never have presented this to my da if this is 327 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 4: all I had. He was very upset, and he goes, yes, John, 328 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 4: I'll take your case. 329 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 1: John Nannella's invested in Daniel's innocence and the work he 330 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: would go on to do ended up costing him personally 331 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of dollars. 332 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 2: He's the patron saint of the Daniel Viegas case. You know. 333 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 2: I went down to al Paso shortly after John had 334 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 2: hired lawyers and investigators to reopen Daniel's case, and when 335 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 2: I went into the courthouse, there were like fifteen or 336 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 2: twenty people walking around with signs saying free Daniel Viegas. 337 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 2: You know, false confessions happened. Justice for Daniel Viegas. John 338 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 2: had organized a rally right in front of the courthouse, 339 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 2: and on the street in front of the courthouse was 340 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,439 Speaker 2: a truck that had billboards on both sides of it 341 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 2: that was driving around the courthouse. So when you walked 342 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 2: into the courtroom and al Paso, you were just blitched 343 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 2: by this notion that an udjusta had occurred and that 344 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 2: it needed to. 345 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: Be fixed exactly, and John brought his entire community into 346 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: this case too. There was a manager who worked at 347 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: his construction company who was a songwriter, and he ends 348 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: up writing a corrido, a traditional Mexican ballad about the 349 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 1: wrongful conviction of Daniel Viegas. 350 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 2: John was so proud of that song that one of 351 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 2: the first things he did when I was down in 352 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 2: al Paco was to play that for me. It's on 353 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 2: YouTube now if you want to hear it. 354 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: John and the private investigator, right, they want to really 355 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 1: find out what happened, and one of the first people 356 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: they go to speak to is Jesse Hernandez, one of 357 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 1: the survivors of the shooting. Of course, Jesse was now 358 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: a grown man, and John shows Jesse for the first 359 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: time a copy of Daniel's confession. 360 00:19:55,480 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 4: Jesse's like, John, this is not what happened. Not look 361 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 4: like a confession from somebody who was there, who took 362 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 4: this confession down and I told him. At that point, 363 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 4: Jesse turns pale and he's like, John, that same detective 364 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 4: almost had me confessing to that crime. He shows up 365 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 4: that night and he tells me, we know you shot 366 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 4: your friends, your buddy Kwan Medina. I just told us 367 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 4: that you did it, and Jesse says that he was 368 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 4: just hysterical. He's like, wait a minute, these are my friends. 369 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 4: I love my friends. I would never do anything like 370 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 4: that to my friends. He goes, well, maybe you blacked out, 371 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 4: you know, and you shot them and you didn't even 372 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 4: realize it. And at that moment, Jesse goes, well, man, 373 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 4: you know, why would my friends say I shot them 374 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:44,640 Speaker 4: if I didn't show them. Maybe I did do it, 375 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 4: And he put his head down on the table and 376 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 4: just crying uncontrollably. Had it not been for his mom 377 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 4: that stepped in, he says, he was almost ready to confess. 378 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 4: So Jesse's like, the last thing I want is somebody 379 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 4: innocence spending the rest of their life in prison. That 380 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 4: could have been me. 381 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: This was an absolute bolt from the blue when John 382 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: heard this story from Jesse Hernandez, and it only motivated 383 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,919 Speaker 1: him to continue pounding the pavement. Eventually, John hires a 384 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: highly skilled El Paso trial lawyer, a man named Joe Spencer. 385 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: Now Joe files a state petition for a writ of 386 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 1: habeas corpus, arguing, among other things, that Daniel's lawyer at 387 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,439 Speaker 1: his second trial had been ineffective for failing to call 388 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 1: Daniel's alibi witnesses. There's a hearing plan it's going to 389 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,199 Speaker 1: happen in twenty eleven. And in the run up to 390 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 1: that hearing, that's when Steve and I first heard about 391 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 1: this case. 392 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, we heard about it through our news feeds. And 393 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 2: this time what made this special is it wasn't just 394 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 2: me who came in to the office the next day. 395 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 2: It was me and Laura, and so did our third attorney, 396 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 2: Josh Tepfratz. All three of us got this newsfeed at 397 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 2: the same time, a case of a juvenile who had 398 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 2: confessed to a crime he didn't commit and who was 399 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,479 Speaker 2: trying to reopen his case through a new hearing. 400 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: At the hearing, Jesse Hernandez takes the stand for the 401 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 1: first time. Jesse testifies that Daniel's confession didn't match what 402 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: actually happened to him and his friends. Daniel's alibi witnesses 403 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: also testified, saying that they were with Daniel on the 404 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 1: night of the crime. And remember doctor Richard Leo, one 405 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 1: of the experts from that false confession conference in El 406 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 1: Paso back in two thousand and six. He took the 407 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: stand too, and testified that Daniel's statement showed every sign 408 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: of being false. There was even evidence introduced that two 409 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: other known gang members had threatened Mondo Lazo's life right 410 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: before the shooting, and they'd bragged about killing him afterwards. 411 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,959 Speaker 1: When one of those two gang members was called to testify, 412 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,439 Speaker 1: he invoked his Fifth Amendment right against self incrimination and 413 00:22:58,520 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: refused to answer anything. 414 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 2: And Joe Spencer also mounted again a direct attack on 415 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 2: the integrity of the detective who had taken the false 416 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 2: witness statements, who had almost gotten a false confession from 417 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 2: the crime victim, and who had gotten the confession from Daniel. 418 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 2: And one of the things he discovered, which is pretty incredible, 419 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 2: was that one of the tactics that this detective had 420 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 2: used in another case was that he would enter an 421 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 2: interrogation room dressed in a smock. Now, why would anybody 422 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:36,679 Speaker 2: wear a smock? Well, he tried to mislead the suspect 423 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 2: into thinking that they were speaking to a medical person, 424 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,399 Speaker 2: a doctor, unbelievable, instead of a police officer. And when 425 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 2: the judge heard that evidence, his eyes rolled back into 426 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 2: his head. 427 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 1: And eventually we had an opportunity to file an amicus 428 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 1: brief about the unreliability of Daniel's confession. And add that 429 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: to everything that Joe Spencer was already doing in the 430 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: courtroommphasized how vulnerable a teenager like Daniel would have been 431 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: to making a false confession. The hearing concluded, and then 432 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 1: we waited. The judge took nine months to reach a decision, 433 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 1: but on August seventeenth, twenty twelve, Judge Sam Madrano recommended 434 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:21,400 Speaker 1: that Daniel Viegues receive a new trial. Judge Madrano concluded 435 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: that Daniel's trial lawyer had provided ineffective assistance by failing 436 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: to investigate or introduce evidence of the unreliability of Daniel's confession. Now, 437 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 1: Judge Madrano's decision was a fabulous victory, but it was 438 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: only a recommendation. It had to be adopted by the 439 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 1: Texas Court of Criminal Appeals. It was at that point 440 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 1: that we joined the team to craft a presentation to 441 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: that court that we hoped it would accept. As that 442 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: appeal process is ongoing, Daniel's lawyer, Joe Spencer asked Judge 443 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 1: Madrano to free Daniel on bond let him go home. 444 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 1: As the appeal process dragged on, and on January fourteenth, 445 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, after nearly two decades in prison, Daniel was 446 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: released on bond, straight into the arms of John Mambella, 447 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: who drove him home in a brand new, shiny red convertible. 448 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 2: It was almost like a kick or tape parade. Daniel 449 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 2: was free. 450 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,879 Speaker 1: He got started living right away. As soon as he 451 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,400 Speaker 1: was released. He got married to a woman named Amanda, 452 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 1: whom he'd met when he was behind bars, and in 453 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: short order they had two beautiful children. But even though 454 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 1: Daniel was walking out of the prison into the arms 455 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: of a crowd of supporters, it could have all been 456 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: taken away from him. 457 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 2: And the Court of Criminal Appeals in Texas is a 458 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 2: court that has a reputation of being hostile to defendant's claims, 459 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 2: especially claims regarding their actual innocence, So it was anything 460 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 2: but a sure thing that Judge Medrano's decision would be affirmed. 461 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: Long story short, the High Court affirms Judge Madrano's ruling. Yes, 462 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 1: Daniel Veegis deserves another trial and a chance to prove 463 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: his innocence. But the DA didn't get around to the 464 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: new trial until twenty eighteen, So for four years Daniel's 465 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: living with a sword hanging over his head. If he 466 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: goes to trial and loses he'll be back in prison 467 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: for life. This is enormously stressful. The months and years 468 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 1: are ticking by. Daniel's starting a family. He's working at 469 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: John Manbella's construction company, tasting freedom and cherishing it. What 470 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: does the DA do? He asks Daniel to enter an 471 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 1: Alfred plea stay free as long as you plead guilty. 472 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 2: It's such a tempting offer, especially to somebody who was 473 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,640 Speaker 2: locked up for a crime they didn't commit as a 474 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,360 Speaker 2: teenager and had to spend two decades or more in 475 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 2: prison suffering under the weight of that wrongful conviction. But 476 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 2: now Daniel's got other people. He has to think about, 477 00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 2: his wife and their children. 478 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: Daniel consider the Alfred plea option seriously because it meant 479 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: that he wouldn't have to go back to trial. You 480 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 1: would be a convicted murderer, but at least he would 481 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 1: have his freedom. Of course, he was tempted to put 482 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:13,880 Speaker 1: the whole thing behind him. But Daniel lived in El Paso, Texas, 483 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: and El Paso had become home to a small community 484 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: of wrongly convicted individuals. Among that community was a man 485 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 1: named Jason Baldwin. Now that's a name that true crime 486 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,919 Speaker 1: junkies might recognize because Jason Baldwin was a member of 487 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: the West Memphis Three, a group of three teenagers from 488 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: Arkansas who had been accused of the nineteen ninety three 489 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: killings of three eight year old boys. One of them, 490 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: Jesse miss Kelly, had falsely confessed, and the three of 491 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,679 Speaker 1: them were convicted, two sentenced to life in prison, and 492 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: the third, Damian Eccles, sent a death row in Arkansas. 493 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: They fought their case for seventeen years. Steve and I 494 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,679 Speaker 1: were fortunate enough to join Damien Eckles' legal team at 495 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: the very end, and they were freed only when the 496 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: State of Arkansas made them an offer. All three of 497 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: you enter Alfred, please say you're guilty of these crimes, 498 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,719 Speaker 1: and then we'll let you out. Now, this is an 499 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: easier decision when it came to Damien, he was on 500 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: death row, but Jason, who had been sentenced to life 501 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: in prison, wrestled with it. He didn't want to admit 502 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: to a crime he didn't commit, even to secure his 503 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 1: own freedom. Ultimately, he chose to accept the Alfred plea 504 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 1: to help save Damien's life. 505 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 2: One of the consequences of entering an Alford plea is 506 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 2: that you can't get compensated through state compensation statutes. The 507 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 2: Alfred plea is considered a plea of guilty, and that 508 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 2: disqualifies you from recovering any compensation. 509 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: Prosecutors dangle freedom so long as they can secure guilty, 510 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: please and return and prevent themselves from being sued down 511 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: the road. It's a tool of injustice. It happens way 512 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: too often. It was used in the Robert Davis case, 513 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 1: it was used in the West Memphis three case, and 514 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 1: it almost worked on Daniel Viegas. You see, Jason Baldwin 515 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: had moved from Arkansas to Texas, where he became involved 516 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:07,239 Speaker 1: in a wrongful conviction advocacy organization called Proclaim Justice and 517 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: joined John Manbela's fight to free Daniel Viegas. Jason Baldwin 518 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: became one of his closest friends and confidants. As Daniel 519 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: wade whether to accept that. 520 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 4: Alfred play, Daniel told me, Johnny goes, if I take 521 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 4: this deal, all this work that you did is for nothing. 522 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 4: So we called Jason Bodwin for his advice, and he said, 523 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 4: let's talk about it before you decide anything. And he 524 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 4: tells Daniel, Noah, I can't tell you what to do 525 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 4: you have a family, But in my case, you know, 526 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 4: there's no way that I would do it again. It 527 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 4: bothers me every day of my life. So just think 528 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 4: hard about this because it could bother you the rest 529 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 4: of your life too. 530 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: And with Jason Baldwin's counseling and support, Daniel Viegas found 531 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,959 Speaker 1: his courage and turned down that unjust Alfred Plea offer. 532 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: He decided to go to trial. 533 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 2: The stakes were so high at this trial. Daniel had 534 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 2: tasted freedom, he was starting to live the kind of 535 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 2: life he had always dreamed of. But here he was 536 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 2: back in that court room, a place where the last 537 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 2: time had ended in a conviction. 538 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: Now this trial was very different because this time Daniel's 539 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: team of lawyers we succeeded in getting his confession thrown 540 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 1: out as involuntary and coerced. And without that confession, there 541 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: is precious little evidence to go on. The state presented 542 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 1: a case to the jury, the jury deliberated, and in 543 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 1: October of twenty eighteen, a verdict came back the State. 544 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 3: Of Texas versus Daniel Viegis. 545 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 1: Now, this is one of the highest profile cases in 546 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: the history of El Paso at this point, and the 547 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: courtroom was packed with supporters of Daniel Viegas. Jason Baldwin 548 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: of The Westman three is there, the local wrongful conviction 549 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: advocacy organization Proclaimed Justice is there, and John and Lucy 550 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: Manbella sitting in the front row right behind Daniel and 551 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: his lawyers. They are there. 552 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 2: And when the judge asks Daniel to stand up for 553 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 2: the verdict, his knees buckle. He almost collapses. He has 554 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 2: to hear whether this beautiful life that he has started 555 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 2: reconstructing is going to continue or is it going to end. 556 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: Daniel's lawyers actually have to help him stand up, and 557 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: he was able to stand just long enough to hear 558 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: the verdict. 559 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 2: We the jury, you find the defendant, Daniel viegis not 560 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 2: guilty of not guilty, And the courtroom rrupts in a 561 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 2: sound of both cheers and incredible relief. And then he collapsed. 562 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: Under the weight of a lifetime's worth of fighting. He 563 00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: had finally been exonerated. 564 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 4: It was it was a feeling that I don't think 565 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 4: I'm ever going to feel again in my life. 566 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 3: Hey, Daniel, is that you? Yes? Tell me about your kids? 567 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 3: How many kids you got? 568 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 2: Now? 569 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 3: There's four altogether? A man of my wife tell me 570 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 3: she was pregnant. I remember I told her, man, I'm 571 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 3: told to be a dead and right at that time, 572 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 3: my daughter got pregnant too, and I was like, oh, man, 573 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 3: you know I'm too young to be a grandfather. 574 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: What do you tell your kids about what happened to you? 575 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 3: The two little ones are too small to know about 576 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 3: it that they don't understand yet. Like I love when 577 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 3: they tell me life stain't fair. I tell him, tell 578 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 3: me about the nineteen years in print and tell me 579 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 3: how life stay fair. Preen your room. 580 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: I know that the Wrongful Conviction podcast played an important 581 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: role in. 582 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 3: Your case too. Yes, a man of she's really into 583 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 3: the Wrongful Conviction comedian, right, She's like the voted fan 584 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 3: to Jason flont So. When they came to me with 585 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 3: that offer free, they're just telling me if I signing 586 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 3: the paper, the cake is closed. So I was going 587 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 3: to sign it almost and that's when Amanda jumped into 588 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 3: is like, non, I'm I'm all about this, Alpha please. 589 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 3: You know Jason Plan told me about this. She educated 590 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 3: me on that, and then that's when we decided not 591 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 3: to take that plea deal. 592 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 2: Daniel, you're an incredible human being. To see you as 593 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 2: a freeman at Innocence Network conferences, at events for proclaimed justice, 594 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 2: it makes my heart sick. 595 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: You're a symbol of endurance. It's been our honor to 596 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: know you and to tell your story today. That's the 597 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 1: story of Daniel Viegas. Join us next week when we'll 598 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 1: tell you about Hammed Hyatt, a California man falsely accused 599 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 1: of terrorism based on one of the most outlandish confessions 600 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: I've ever heard till then. Thanks Thanks for listening to 601 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction, False Confessions. Wrongful Conviction, False Confessions is a 602 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association with Signal 603 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 1: Company Number One. Special thanks to our executive producer Jason 604 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: Flamm and the team at Signal Company Number one. Executive 605 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: producer Kevin wardis Senior producer and Pope and additional production 606 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,760 Speaker 1: and editing by Connor Hall. Special thanks to jogy Hammer 607 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: for additional script editing and for wrangling and writing like 608 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: a mad woman. Our music was composed by Jay Ralph. 609 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 1: You can follow me on Instagram or Twitter at Laura Nywriter, 610 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: and you can follow. 611 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 2: Me on Twitter at s Drisen. 612 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: For more information on the show, visit wrongfulconvictionpodcast dot com 613 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,399 Speaker 1: and be sure to follow the show on Instagram at 614 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on 615 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:57,760 Speaker 1: Twitter at wrong Conviction