1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: You're listening to Law and Order Criminal Justice System, a 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: production of Wolf Entertainment and iHeart podcasts. 3 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 2: In the criminal justice system, landmark trials transcend the courtroom 4 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:20,240 Speaker 2: to reshape the law. The brave many women who investigate 5 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 2: and prosecute these cases are part of a select group 6 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:32,160 Speaker 2: that is defined American history. These are their stories. Monday, 7 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 2: June twenty eighth, two thousand and four, Eastern District Federal Court, Brooklyn. 8 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 3: Vinnie, the Chinigante, Genevie's family boss, is serving twelve years 9 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 3: for racketeering. John Gotti, nicknamed the Dapper Dawn, died in 10 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 3: federal prison two years ago. Joseph Big Joey Messino, close 11 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 3: friend of the late Gotti, alleged boss of the Banano family, 12 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 3: is the last Dawn. 13 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: The trial of Joe Messino, there was a dramatic affair 14 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: which peaked with the testimony of his underboss and eventual rival, Salvitally, 15 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: a man Messino himself had ordered to be killed. 16 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 4: The only time that it got super tense in the 17 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 4: courtroom was when sal testified against Joe. I mean, you 18 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,919 Speaker 4: could just feel it. Joe Messino practically raised Salvatally, and 19 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 4: here he was basically putting in men jail for the 20 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 4: rest of his life, betraying a family oath. And his 21 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 4: sister is sitting in the courtroom, his nieces. It got 22 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 4: pretty tense. 23 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: Sal's sister was also Messino's wife. This was family drama 24 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: on a whole other level. 25 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 5: In the world of organized crime, there is no greater 26 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 5: sin than being a government's in foremant. So imagine the 27 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 5: pressure on a man named Salvator Vitale. He is the 28 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 5: former number two of the Bonano crime family. He is 29 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 5: testifying against his boss, Joseph Massino, who also happens to 30 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 5: be Vitali's brother in law. 31 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 6: Oh gosh, the tension, it was palpable. He's on the stand, 32 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 6: we're looking forward, but the glares, the death stairs that 33 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 6: are coming right. It's a packed courtroom when Battally is testifying, 34 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 6: and yet it's absolutely quiet. He was well aware of 35 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 6: the hatred that was being directed at him by the 36 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 6: people who he was the closest to in life up 37 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:30,920 Speaker 6: until that point. 38 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 3: Good Looking Style saw everything, he says, including the nineteen 39 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 3: eighty one triple murder of Messino's rivals at a Brooklyn 40 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 3: social club. He also testified that Messino ordered the murder 41 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 3: of the man responsible for allowing an FBI agent to 42 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 3: infiltrate the mafia, a case made famous in the movie 43 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 3: Donnie Brasco. 44 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: From closest confidant to double crosser, Vitali was revealing all 45 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: of Messino's murderous secrets. The Last Dawn was truly on 46 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 1: his own. 47 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 6: You're not with the mob because you want to be. 48 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 7: It's the gangster that decides whether you're his associated. 49 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 6: On if you like your life, you will vote to acquit. 50 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,519 Speaker 1: I'm Anniseega Nicolazzi. My father should have been a dead 51 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: man from Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcasts. This is Law 52 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: and Order Criminal Justice System. In their tireless pursuit of 53 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: Banano boss Joe Messino, the government had their sight set 54 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: on his right hand man, sal Vitally, who was not 55 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: only Messino's trusted ally, but they were family. Messino had 56 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: been married to Vitally's sister, Josephine, four years, but before 57 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: investigators could approach him, they needed some leverage. Luckily, according 58 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: to former FBI agent Kim McCaffrey, there was never a 59 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: shortage of crimes to pin on sal Salvatally. 60 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,679 Speaker 4: He is living in Dix Hills and there's a bank 61 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 4: eab Bank, And you know there's some people that go 62 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 4: to banks and they can't get loans because their credit's 63 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 4: bad or there's a variety of reasons why banks choose 64 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 4: not to give certain people loans. Well, there's a corrupt 65 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 4: branch manager who happens to be friends with Salvatally. So 66 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 4: if you don't qualify from the bank, you then can 67 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 4: get a loan from your local mobsters. You pay a 68 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 4: little extra an interest, and if you can't make your payment, well, 69 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 4: then you get called into the bank conference room and 70 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 4: you don't get a bad credit rating, you get a beating. 71 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 4: And Salvatally was part of that. 72 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: Once again, Kim took a fine tooth comb to his 73 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: financial and uncovered a pattern of very suspicious banking. 74 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 4: You know, if you deposit more than ten thousand dollars, 75 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 4: banks have to fill out a form. People know this, 76 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 4: and people don't want banks to fill out forms on them, 77 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 4: so they will continually deposit just under that amount. But 78 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 4: when you do that, that is a crime, and it's 79 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 4: called structuring. 80 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,359 Speaker 1: It wasn't murder, but it was evidence of fraud and 81 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: perhaps more and could come with a lengthy jail sentence, 82 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: but the government was ready to dangle an even bigger 83 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: incentive for Vitally to cooperate. 84 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 4: We knew that Joe was considering killing Sal even though 85 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 4: it was his brother in law, just from other cooperators 86 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,919 Speaker 4: within his inner circle that had started talking to us, 87 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 4: and so we thought that maybe Sao would have some 88 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:57,159 Speaker 4: incentive to cooperate. Why not give it a shot. So 89 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 4: the day he was arrested and we pitched him and 90 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 4: we actually showed him Joe Messino's detention memo which talked 91 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 4: about the plot to kill Salbatally. We showed him the 92 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 4: pages that talked about it. Sal just looked at us 93 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 4: and he said, I want you to prove this. Prove 94 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 4: to me that this is true. And I said, Sal, 95 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 4: we don't have to prove this to you. You already 96 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 4: know it's true. And he kind of just looked a 97 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 4: bit defeated and he said, you're right. I think we 98 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 4: knew at that point that he would eventually cooperate with us. 99 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 6: Once Vitally hears that this guy who he looked up 100 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 6: to and loved was ready to murder him, he says, 101 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 6: kill me, Okay, forget it, I'm going to flip, and 102 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 6: then he flips, and it's this real family drama, that 103 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 6: bond that they shared. It was so shocking and great 104 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 6: for the case. When Vitally decided to. 105 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: Cooperate, that's Mitra Hermosi, former Assistant United States Attorney in 106 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: the Eastern District of New York. Sal Vitally would be 107 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: the highest ranking and most consequential Banano mobster to testify 108 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: against Messino, and he was determined to make it count. 109 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:26,239 Speaker 4: Sal Vitali, in particular, was I felt open and honest 110 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 4: about everything that he had done. When we asked him 111 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 4: to talk about the murder that he had been indicted for, 112 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 4: He's like, Oh, do you want to start there or 113 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 4: do you want to start with the first murder I 114 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 4: committed back in the nineteen sixties. Let's just start from 115 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 4: the beginning and go chronologically. 116 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: Vitali's murderous resume read like a history of the modern mob. 117 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 6: Once he decided to cooperate, it was like a light switch. 118 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 6: That was it. It was here's the laundry list, and 119 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 6: no emotion in his description of all the acts of 120 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 6: violence and criminality that occurred. 121 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 4: Salvatally's knowledge destroyed the family. I mean He was involved 122 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 4: in eleven homicides for the Banana family. 123 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: Including the three Capos murders that claimed the life of 124 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: messino rival Sonny red In Delacado. Salvatally had dedicated his 125 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: life to securing Messino's rise to power, and now he 126 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: would deliver the blow that would finally bring him down. 127 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 6: It was so crazy when Salvatally decided to cooperate, and 128 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 6: then you knew you had the boss. You could really 129 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 6: bring down this organization. 130 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 4: Once word got out that Salvatally was cooperating, I mean literally, 131 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:47,199 Speaker 4: there were made members that were calling the US Attorney's 132 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 4: office saying, if this is true, I'll wear a wire. 133 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 4: I'll do whatever you need to do because this life 134 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 4: is over. 135 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 6: Vitally, when he wasn't so stoically, matter of factly talking 136 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 6: about murders and extortion and loan sharking and violence, he 137 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 6: was like your good friend's father, just such a normal, 138 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 6: easy going literally I'm like, you remind me of my 139 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 6: friend Lisa's dad. Just that slight accent. 140 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: Like he's picking us up from the carpool. 141 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 6: Totally. He lived in Long Island and he had this 142 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 6: life of I'm sure what the neighbors thought was normalcy, 143 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 6: and yet here he was co running this unbelievable mafia family. 144 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 6: It was very fun to just sort of observe the 145 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 6: dichotomy between who he actually was and who he presented as. 146 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 4: I think the way that the Bananos conducted some of 147 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 4: their business is what protected them for so long. 148 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: According to Special Agent Kim McCaffrey, in addition to learning 149 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: how to traditional surveillance techniques, Joe Messino liked to make 150 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: sure all of his men weren't in on the big plans. 151 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: So if it was an organized hit and you were 152 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: a Banano, you were in for a penny, in for 153 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: a pound. 154 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 4: Think about involving fifteen people in a murder. If we 155 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 4: involve everyone and all of these things, then we're sort 156 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 4: of insulating and protecting ourselves. But as soon as the 157 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 4: first domino fell, that's what ultimately led to their demise. 158 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 4: Once Frank Coopa started talking, and then Richie Canarella started talking, 159 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 4: sal He's not a dumb man like these guys. At 160 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 4: that point they knew it was a choice of I'm 161 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 4: going to prison for the rest of my life or 162 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 4: I have a shot of getting out. What ultimately protected 163 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 4: the Banana family for so long was what destroyed them. 164 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: In the end, the Commission case had chipped away at 165 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: the ballot If and Omerta the mafia sworn oath of 166 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: secrecy and loyalty. By the time the FBI were rounding 167 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: up the Bananos, Omerta was dead. Like the Commission or 168 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: a front table at the Copa Cabana. It was a 169 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: relic of the mafia's past. 170 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 6: You know, if you look back, there was such a 171 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 6: sense among the five families of you go to prison, 172 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 6: you don't cooperate. And as luck would have it, some 173 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 6: of these people had gotten older, sixties and wealthy, and 174 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 6: all of a sudden thought, do I really want to 175 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 6: spend the rest of my life in jail. It was 176 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 6: lucky in some sense that one or two of the 177 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 6: high level members of the group decided to cooperate, and 178 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 6: once they did, everyone else was like, wait, why would 179 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 6: I go to prison if these two guys are going 180 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 6: to get a much lighter sentence. The rules have changed, Yeah, 181 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 6: the rules changed. 182 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: Salvitally, the Banano underboss just given up his brother in 183 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: law and the so called last Don Joe Messino, and 184 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: with his testimony, the government had a solid case, not 185 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: just on counts of extortion and racketeering, but murder, specifically 186 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: the gangland execution of his old friend Sunny Black Nepolitano. 187 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 1: It was finally time to bring him in. In a 188 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: fitting demonstration of just how much the mobs world had changed, 189 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 1: Messino's arrest would come at the hands of not a 190 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: swat team, nor a swarm of black suited agents, but 191 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: two accountants, Jeff and Kim. 192 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 4: Jeff is blasting the beastie boys on our way to 193 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 4: the arrest because that's what he liked to play in 194 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 4: the car, and we roll off on Joe Messino's house. 195 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 4: We knock on the door and he is ready for us. 196 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 4: He is dressed in like a black tracksuit and his 197 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 4: hair is is perfectly done, and he's ready to go. 198 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 4: He says, yeah, I was expecting you guys yesterday. 199 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: In the end, Joe Messino, the last don would go 200 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: down without a fight. 201 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 4: And then in the car we just, you know, are 202 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,319 Speaker 4: talking small talk and he does say you must be 203 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 4: Kimberly and you must be Jeffrey, And we say, oh, 204 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 4: you know a lot about us, and he says, well, 205 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 4: you do your homework, I do mine. It was definitely 206 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 4: a very surreal moment after four years of investigation, you know, 207 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 4: sitting in the backseat with Joe Messino. 208 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 1: Their impression he was a gentleman, polite, charming even, but 209 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: they also knew who he really was, a criminal and 210 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: a killer. 211 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 8: The reputed mafia Boston, New York City was arrested today. 212 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 8: Joseph Messino allegedly runs the Bonano crime family. He was 213 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 8: indicted on federal charges of murder, conspiracy, and other crimes 214 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,680 Speaker 8: over too decades. Prosecutors said Messino was the last official 215 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:07,679 Speaker 8: boss of New York's five mafia families who wasn't already 216 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 8: in jail. 217 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,319 Speaker 4: That has to do with one murder when we initially 218 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 4: arrested him, but then obviously that was superseded upon he 219 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 4: went to trial on seven homicides because obviously sal knew 220 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 4: everything that Joe was involved in. 221 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: And with his testimony and that of other cooperating witnesses, 222 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: Mietra inter fellow prosecutors were building a case that would 223 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: make sure Messino would spend some real time in a 224 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: jail cell. 225 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 6: It was a racketeering case, going after the boss of 226 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 6: a criminal enterprise. By the time we're ready to go 227 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 6: to trial, we have seven murders that either Messino had 228 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 6: participated or sanctioned. We had loan sharking, we had extortions, 229 00:14:58,520 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 6: even pump and dumb schemes. 230 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: And while not all those financial crimes are tabloid worthy, 231 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: they can be just as insidious and damaging to society 232 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: as murder, and prosecutors were determined to get justice for 233 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: the victims of those crimes as well. 234 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 6: As a prosecutor. The highlights are always the murders or 235 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 6: the violence, but the day to day loan sharking activity, 236 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 6: the day to day extortions, the drug dealing is the 237 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 6: bread and butter of the organization. It's all about the money. 238 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 6: There wasn't a window that was installed in New York 239 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 6: that didn't have a kickback to a member of organized crime. 240 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 6: They controlled some of these unions in such a way 241 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 6: where their people would get the no show jobs. There 242 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 6: were so many no show jobs, and then you'd have 243 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 6: little store owners who if they didn't give part of 244 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 6: their profits to these guys walking up and down the street, 245 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 6: they would get beat up, their legs would get broken. 246 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 6: It was really violent and horrible, and so every day 247 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 6: it impacts people's lives in a very negative. 248 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: Way, and thanks to the work of the investigators, they 249 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: had their receipts to prove it. In the end, federal 250 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: prosecutors had built a rock solid case against Messino and 251 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: the consequences promise to be far reaching. Not the Mitra 252 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: noticed at the time. 253 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 6: The nice thing is you're growing with it, so to speak. 254 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 6: You don't think about it, right, You're just working every day. 255 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 6: It's like, oh, let's step back and look at the 256 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 6: forest for the trees, like it's all trees when you're 257 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 6: trying to build the case. And then certainly once the 258 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 6: trial starts, right, it's just sixteen hours a day every 259 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 6: day of what is the task at hand because there 260 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 6: are so many and it's only after the whole thing 261 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 6: is over that you sit back and think, wow, that 262 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 6: was pretty awesome. 263 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,920 Speaker 1: Messino's trial began on May twenty fourth, two thousand and four, 264 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: with Judge Nicholas Garraffus presiding and Greg Andres leading the prosecution. 265 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 6: It's such a strong case. We have so many witnesses, 266 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 6: there's so much evidence that it would have been shocking 267 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:27,880 Speaker 6: had we not convicted. Having said that, you're still nervous. 268 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 6: You don't know what's going to happen. Did they get 269 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 6: to a juror or who knows what can happen. 270 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:38,360 Speaker 1: In fact, right from the start, Mietra herself was involved 271 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,400 Speaker 1: in a nearly devastating hiccup. 272 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 6: Every trial has its surprises. Greg asked me to put 273 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 6: on this one witness. He may have been like eighty 274 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 6: four years old. He was on medication. And I go 275 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 6: to Greg. I'm like, I don't think he's taken his medication. 276 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,400 Speaker 6: He's a little nervous. I'm not sure he's ready. Rather 277 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 6: not put him on right now. Greg's like, just put 278 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 6: him on, because this is how we've orchestrated the lineup. 279 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:12,640 Speaker 6: Like okay, so first witness, and I ask the witness 280 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 6: about Joe Messino. Yes, member of the Banano family boss, 281 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 6: Like okay, so do you see him in the courtroom today? 282 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:25,920 Speaker 6: He looks around and he says no. And I'm just thinking, 283 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 6: oh god, you know, you're just like, okay, it's in 284 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 6: the defense seat, but you can't say anything. And none 285 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 6: of us thought to be like, this is what Joe 286 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:36,199 Speaker 6: Messino looks like. 287 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 9: Now. 288 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 6: He hadn't seen the guy in twenty five years, and 289 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 6: so he had a young version and he himself at age. 290 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: It's the stuff of prosecutor nightmares. 291 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:52,919 Speaker 6: And I recall he says, that's not Joe Messino. And 292 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 6: Greg's looking at me like I'm going to kill you. 293 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 6: I told you he wasn't ready. Oh and the poor guy, 294 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 6: he said he needed a break and the start was 295 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:08,120 Speaker 6: not great, but it all worked out. Every other witness 296 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 6: said this was Joe Messino. 297 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:15,880 Speaker 1: Other testimony was impactful in both content and emotion, a 298 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 1: stark reminder to the jury that when it came to murder, 299 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: you were talking about human lives. Sixty five year old 300 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: frank Lino had survived the three Capos murders that Messino 301 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 1: and Vitally carried out, and not even a life of 302 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 1: crime as a Banano captain could keep him from tearing 303 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,959 Speaker 1: up when he recounted the murder of his friends. 304 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 6: Frank Lino was old school mafia. He clearly was very 305 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,879 Speaker 6: fond of the three captains and talking about how he 306 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 6: almost got killed by the crossfire. Obviously he wasn't told 307 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 6: because they were too worried. He would forewarn the three captains. 308 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 6: Frankie was a tough character, very no nonsense, and he 309 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 6: definitely in the courtroom he teared up talking about their 310 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 6: murders and his almost right he almost got killed. 311 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: As for the defendant, Joe Messino, for much of his 312 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: trial he appeared unfazed. 313 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 6: Messino outwardly appeared to be mellow, more quiet, unlike a gottie. 314 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 6: He didn't want press, he didn't want attention. Everyone generally 315 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 6: seemed to like Messino, even in the courtroom every day, 316 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 6: super polite, always said good morning. He'd share food if 317 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 6: you wanted, and we're like, no, thank you, but very pleasant. 318 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 6: So in that world he seemed like a relatively liked 319 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:54,479 Speaker 6: and peaceful for what that's worth. Boss. 320 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: Maybe in another life, Big Joey Messino would have been 321 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:02,479 Speaker 1: happy selling sandwich from his lunch wagon, and even on 322 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,880 Speaker 1: trial for his life, there were glimpses of the person 323 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: that might have been. 324 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 6: Joe would order these elaborate Italian lunches every day. At 325 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:18,959 Speaker 6: one point, maybe halfway through the trial, the defense lawyer 326 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,959 Speaker 6: and the guards they just brought him his lunch and 327 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 6: he looks at me and he says, Petra, you're getting 328 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 6: too skinny. Come sit, have something you need to eat. 329 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 6: Thank you, Joe, I really appreciate it. I'm good though 330 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 6: I'm trying to put you in jail for the rest 331 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 6: of your life. 332 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 10: You enjoy your meal. 333 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: Over the course of the trial, Messino is happy to 334 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: let his animated defense team do all the kicking and screaming. 335 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 6: Because their clients wanted it a lot of showmanship. There's 336 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 6: so much evidence that it's hard to crack that wall. 337 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,719 Speaker 6: But what you can do is kick and scream and 338 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,239 Speaker 6: talk about the unfairness and the injustice and that the 339 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 6: prosecutors are being outrageous and that the cooperators are just 340 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 6: absolutely lying. And so he was very aggressive and animated, 341 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,400 Speaker 6: and he and Greg would really like go at it, 342 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 6: and poor Judge Garifus would be like, okay, the two 343 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 6: of you, you know, take a minute. Very contentious from 344 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 6: start to finish. 345 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:33,160 Speaker 1: Soon it was time for the government's main witness, sal Vitally, 346 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: to testify. 347 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 4: Sal conducted himself as he did when we were debriefing them. 348 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 4: He was just telling his story over the course of 349 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 4: two days. 350 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 6: He was the star witness. I will have to say, 351 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 6: Vitally had this unbelievable memory of who was there, where 352 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 6: was it, going back twenty five years, and we were 353 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 6: able to corroborate then everything he said. Did it help 354 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 6: that all these other Cooper readers said the same thing, 355 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 6: because obviously no one witness knows what the other witness 356 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 6: is saying. Yes, but his historical, all encompassing knowledge was 357 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 6: absolutely the critical piece of the case. 358 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 1: In the end, Vitally's testimony proved devastating, not just to Messino, 359 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: but also to his sister, who stood by Messino's side 360 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: throughout the trial. 361 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,919 Speaker 6: His wife showed up every day of trial, right his 362 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 6: wife and daughters like without fail. And you know, you 363 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 6: can imagine, here is her brother, the lead witness against 364 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 6: her husband, and her husband is on trial. 365 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 3: In the courtroom, Messino's wife, Josephine, spends her days glaring 366 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 3: at her brother sal Vitali, whose testimony could. 367 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: Land her husband in prison. Nonetheless, in a show of 368 00:23:54,040 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: family over family, Vitally refused to disparage or incriminate his sisters. 369 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 6: Till the end. He loved his sister, he said, that's 370 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 6: the one person he would not give evidence about. 371 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,439 Speaker 1: When it finally came time for closing statements, there seemed 372 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,439 Speaker 1: to be little doubt that the government had made their case. 373 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:20,479 Speaker 1: But still Mitya remembers being overcome with nerves before her 374 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: final presentation. 375 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 6: So it was my fourth trial. It was my third 376 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 6: year in the office, and here you have a completely 377 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 6: packed courtroom with reporters and the defense lawyer is much 378 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 6: more senior and very aggressive. On the one hand, though, 379 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,919 Speaker 6: it was great because we had such a strong case 380 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,919 Speaker 6: that the nerves were calmed by the fact that we 381 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 6: have the facts, but terrified when I had to give 382 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 6: my closing. I'm sure I probably went into the bathroom 383 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 6: thinking will I be able to speak? And then once 384 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 6: you start speaking that first word, talking to the jury 385 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 6: with such a pack courtroom that you're just like whispering, 386 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:07,360 Speaker 6: and then you get into it, and then you're like, oh, 387 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 6: I've got this. I know this. 388 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: Just as nerve wracking was the wait for the jury's verdict. 389 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 6: Because who knows right, who knows? 390 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 11: You know. 391 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 6: I had an acquaintance who once sat on a jury 392 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 6: and he ended up causing that jury to hang because 393 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,400 Speaker 6: in his head reasonable doubt ment, no doubt, and there's 394 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 6: no such thing as no doubt. So you don't know 395 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,159 Speaker 6: the jury right, they're anonymous. You think the case is 396 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 6: so strong, but you just never know until they come back. 397 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 6: So everyone is just a little like you hold your breath. 398 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:50,439 Speaker 1: After deliberating for five days, the jury finally returned with 399 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:51,120 Speaker 1: a decision. 400 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 6: It was guilty on all accounts. You keep your composure. 401 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 6: There's no emotion on your face. You're just listen, but 402 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 6: inside you're just like, oh, thank god, it's like Hugh. 403 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 1: On July thirtyeth two thousand and four, Joe Messina was 404 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: found guilty of eleven counts of arson, extortion, loan sharking, 405 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 1: illegal gambling, money laundering, and murder. 406 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 6: He turned to his wife. He sort of looked at 407 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 6: her and he was just like, what are you going 408 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 6: to do? 409 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: As for Salvitally, he had admitted under oath to eleven murders, 410 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: but for his cooperation, he was sentenced to time served 411 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: and entered the Witness Protection program. He is reportedly still 412 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 1: alive and living in an undisclosed location. Messino sentencing was 413 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 1: scheduled for the coming October and he was expected to 414 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: receive life imprisonment with no possibility of parole. 415 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 4: It was a nine week trial. At the end of 416 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 4: the day, the jury found him guilty on everything, and 417 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 4: as he was being led back, he told the marshal 418 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 4: that he wanted to talk to us. 419 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: Apparently the last Dawn was finally ready to make a deal. 420 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 6: I was surprised. 421 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 4: I mean, he was just convicted to a life sentence 422 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 4: and ten point four million dollars in forfeiture. But I 423 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 4: was kind of mad personally, like, dude, we just went 424 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 4: through nine weeks of trial. Now you want to talk 425 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 4: to us, what's the point? I mean, obviously you're not 426 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 4: not going to meet with them, right. 427 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,120 Speaker 1: I mean he is the Bonano boss. 428 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 4: Yeah. 429 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,239 Speaker 1: The main reason he was now willing to cooperate a 430 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 1: looming death sentence for a murder charge that had been 431 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 1: severed from the Rico. 432 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:47,679 Speaker 6: Trial Orlanda Sasha George from Canada. He was high up 433 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 6: in the Canadian heart of the Banano family. We were 434 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:55,199 Speaker 6: able to charge, and it did get severed because we 435 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 6: were able to seek the death penalty for Messino. Another 436 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 6: part of the reason I think why he ended up cooperating. 437 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 6: It's one thing to spend your life in prison. It's 438 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 6: another to be given a death sentence. 439 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: And now it was Messino's turn to give up what 440 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: he knew, selling out what remained of the Banano family 441 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,640 Speaker 1: for a chance to live out his days in prison. 442 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 4: He just told us his side of things, which was interesting. 443 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 4: Messino's value was more towards other families and towards the 444 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 4: future or the current state of the Banano family. 445 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: And with his cooperation, the last Dawn became the last informant. 446 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: In doing so, Joe Messino became the first sitting boss 447 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: of one of the New York Five families to turn 448 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 1: state's evidence. 449 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 4: You know, Jack Stubing's plan came together. For so long 450 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 4: they had no cooperators. And to be sitting across the 451 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 4: table from Joe Messino, the boss who had ruled with 452 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 4: the iron fist, the one who everyone was so afraid of, 453 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 4: he sort of had no choice. When Salvatally basically lays 454 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 4: out the entire crime family for the last thirty years, 455 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 4: they don't have a choice. Their choice is prison for 456 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 4: the rest of their life for what or do what 457 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 4: everyone else is doing and maybe have a chance of 458 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 4: being with their families again. 459 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: Messino implicated a fellow gangster named Vincent Basciano for the 460 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: unsolved murder of Randolph Pizzolo, and he was even willing 461 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: to wear a wire to record Bashiano's confession. Here's a 462 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: piece of that recording. 463 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 8: Should I want you to be honest, I have always focus. 464 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 2: But you can't play with me the other day. 465 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 9: You play with me and I let it go. 466 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 5: So I'm conshined with this Randy nothing who knows about it? 467 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 2: You want to all practical purposes. 468 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 9: Nobody could think that it came from you. 469 00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 11: Nobody, nobody, nobody. 470 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: Could Brandy and I gave Hi one hundred chances. 471 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 8: However, is but you still can't do it out getting 472 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 8: okay from They're not the boss. 473 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 9: You gotta have JULII. 474 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 6: You can't win. 475 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: As part of Messino's plea bargain, he also finally admitted 476 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: to his involvement in the nineteen eighty one murders up 477 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: the Three Capos, and offered to provide the last two 478 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: pieces of that unsolved puzzle. A few weeks after the murders, 479 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: the body of Sunny Red and Delacado had been found 480 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: in an empty lot in Queen's, but the bodies of 481 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: the two remaining victims, Dominic Trinchera and Philip Giaconi, had 482 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 1: never been found. 483 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 4: Joe Massino's like, listen, those bodies, they are where the 484 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 4: other body surfaced, So you guys need to dig there. 485 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 4: We had this huge football size lot that we were 486 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 4: digging in. Gosh, I don't even know how long we'd 487 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 4: dug there. We had photographers that were trying to pinpoint 488 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 4: an exact location based on where the body of Sunny 489 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 4: Red and Delicado had been found twenty years prior. I know, 490 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 4: on the eighth day, we finally found some of the 491 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 4: jewelry that the family had described that Dominic Trinchero was 492 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 4: wearing the day that he was murdered. All of us 493 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 4: are like super excited. We're like man like, the bones 494 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 4: have to be somewhere around here, Like we found the 495 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 4: jewelry and we're all like down there in the dirt, 496 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 4: and the forensic anthropologist walks by and he goes, I 497 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 4: think this is what you were looking for, And it 498 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 4: was literally the skull like practically laying in like plain view. 499 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 4: It was just crazy. 500 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: The remains corroborated everything that sal Vitally had testified to. 501 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 4: Sal described the murders that day and he talked about 502 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 4: how the one captain was literally shot one bullet in 503 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 4: the back of his head. When we found his skull 504 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 4: perfectly intact, one bullet in the back of his head, 505 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 4: like incredible twenty years later to find that and to 506 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 4: corroborate exactly the way that he said that the murder 507 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 4: had happened crazy. 508 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: The discovery of the three murdered Banano capos likely brought 509 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: little comfort to any of the people they victimized during 510 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: their criminal careers, but it did prove one thing that 511 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: the truth somehow will find its way to the surface. 512 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: In two thousand and five, Joe Messino, head of the 513 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: Banano crime family, was sentenced to two consecutive life sentences 514 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: for convictions on eleven Rico counts, including his participation in 515 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 1: at least seven murders, one more than serial killer Son 516 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: of Sam, as part of a plea bargain that spared 517 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: him the death penalty. Messino would go on to testify 518 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: in open court as a witness in Vincent Basciano's trial 519 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: for the murder of Randy Pizzolo and again in the 520 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: twenty twelve extortion trial of a Genevise captain to provide 521 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: background as an expert on the American mafia. In June 522 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: of twenty thirteen, the US Department of Justice filed a 523 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: request to reduce Messino's sentence to time served, citing his 524 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: unprecedented cooperation with ongoing federal investigations. The judge granted the 525 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 1: request and Messino was given supervised release. He moved to 526 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: an upscale retirement community outside Cleveland and would live out 527 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: his remaining days in the Federal Witness Protection program under 528 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: the name Ralph Rogers. Joe Messino died in twenty twenty three. 529 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 1: He was eighty years old. 530 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 6: There's always this like, oh, it's just business. They're only 531 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 6: like killing each other. No. No, the damage that they 532 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 6: caused through not only the drug dealing, but the extortions 533 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 6: and the loan sharking. And there is no glory in 534 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 6: being part of an organized crime family, or there should 535 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 6: be no glory. 536 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 10: When you really know what this life is and how 537 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 10: the movies portray it. This this honorable society, this brotherhood 538 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 10: of honorable men follow a crap. Joe Bernano's son, Bill Bonano, 539 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 10: wrote a couple of books, and he used to refer 540 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 10: to men of my father's tradition, like there's part of 541 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:35,280 Speaker 10: this grand and glorious thing again going back to sicily, 542 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 10: this protector of the common man and everything, and it 543 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,760 Speaker 10: just isn't so they're crooks. 544 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 6: It's art imitating life. The soprano all these shows, it 545 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 6: really was from his meals to his conduct and the 546 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 6: television shows glamorize it. Oh, in reality, it's a lot uglier. 547 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 6: There's paranoia, there's no trust, a lot of their actions 548 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 6: will own. Families are a mess, whether from being drug 549 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 6: addicts or the kids are in trouble. There's no real friendships. 550 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 6: If they could kill each other for the dollar, they would, 551 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 6: And it seems like a really pretty ugly rough life. 552 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 6: I can't imagine going through life that way. 553 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 1: Between nineteen eighty seven and two thousand and five, the 554 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: federal government had prosecuted and convicted the bosses of every 555 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:36,320 Speaker 1: New York crime family Colombo, lu Casey, Gambino, Genevis and Banano. 556 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 1: And it was the takedown of Joe Messino that seemed 557 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: to forever relegate the American mafia into the shadows. For 558 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: special agents Jack Stubing and Kim McCaffrey. It was the 559 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: case of a lifetime. 560 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 4: The biggest thing for me was, you know, these two 561 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,919 Speaker 4: Jeff would argue that we weren't nerdy, but these two 562 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 4: nerdy accountants doing an investigation totally different than it had 563 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 4: been done in the past, and how it just ended 564 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 4: up with the cooperation of Joseph Massino. I will forever 565 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 4: be grateful for Jack for having that plan at the 566 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 4: time that he had the plan. 567 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 10: They were attentive, they took my advice seriously, and they 568 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,280 Speaker 10: went on to great careers. Jeff retired as the number 569 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 10: three guy in the bureau. They really made me proud. 570 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 10: I hope I at least played some small role in 571 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 10: their success. But I was just blessed to have them. 572 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 4: It was the right investigation at the right time, with 573 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 4: the right people. When I say I miss it, I 574 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:45,719 Speaker 4: could not go back to it. I could not go 575 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,959 Speaker 4: back to the pace that we worked now that I'm 576 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 4: fifty one. But I loved every minute of it. I 577 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 4: loved our prosecution team, I loved my FBI team. I 578 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 4: literally loved everything about working that case. And I remember 579 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:09,400 Speaker 4: that George Hannah, one of our supervisors, said I feel 580 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:13,320 Speaker 4: bad for you guys, because you are literally working one 581 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 4: of the best cases you will ever work in the FBI, 582 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,240 Speaker 4: and it's the first case that you're ever working. George 583 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 4: was definitely right when he made that statement. 584 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:28,080 Speaker 1: The Commission trial and its subsequent investigations left the New 585 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 1: York crime families largely leaderless and rudderless, garnering the cooperation 586 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: of so many mobsters from the lowly associate to the 587 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:42,239 Speaker 1: boss of bosses. Criminal co conspirators. Once bound by Omerta, 588 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,400 Speaker 1: had destroyed the very core of what had made the 589 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 1: mafia so successful and so destructive for so many years. 590 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 1: Working together, every element of the criminal justice system, from 591 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 1: the local police to the special agents, supervisors and teams 592 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:04,360 Speaker 1: of relentless prosecutors, had taken aim at this unstoppable, malevolent 593 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: force in American life, and they had won. So where 594 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,480 Speaker 1: does that leave the American mafia today. 595 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,760 Speaker 4: It's not what it used to be, but they're still around. 596 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 4: They'll never go away completely. 597 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 1: According to Kim McCaffrey, these organizations are a ghost of 598 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:29,680 Speaker 1: their former selves, but she knows that wherever there is money, 599 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,799 Speaker 1: there will always be those eager to take it by 600 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:34,120 Speaker 1: any means necessary. 601 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,800 Speaker 4: When we would do interviews back in the beginning, normal 602 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:43,279 Speaker 4: businesses were being extorted by them, and they were not 603 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 4: huge dollar amounts, but five hundred dollars a month these 604 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:50,080 Speaker 4: various businesses were paying, and the owners of those businesses 605 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 4: would say, oh, well, it's just the cost of doing 606 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 4: business in New York, and I'm thinking this is so 607 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,479 Speaker 4: not true. It's nineteen ninety eight. That's not the cost 608 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 4: of doing business in New York. But to them, paying 609 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 4: that five hundred dollars a month was worth it not 610 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,719 Speaker 4: to have your storefront go on fire or not to 611 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 4: deal with whatever they were going to do to make 612 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 4: your life more miserable. And so it's just always going to. 613 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 1: Be that way. 614 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,280 Speaker 4: They'll always be illegal gambling, they'll always be loan sharking, 615 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 4: so they'll always be organized crime guys who were there 616 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,960 Speaker 4: to willingly accept your money. And I'm not sure it'll 617 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:28,239 Speaker 4: ever go away completely. 618 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:33,279 Speaker 1: According to retired special agent Jack Stubing, the mob has 619 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,840 Speaker 1: not gone extinct. It has evolved. 620 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 10: In my own mind, I call it the suburbanization of 621 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,280 Speaker 10: the mob. When I started out as a young agent, 622 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 10: I could walk to social clubs all around twenty six 623 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 10: Federal Plaza and chat up wise guys standing on street 624 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,360 Speaker 10: corners and that kind of thing. And those kind of 625 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:58,760 Speaker 10: opportunities don't really present themselves anymore. They are more sophisticated. 626 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:03,640 Speaker 10: They're populated by younger people who understand the technology. They 627 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 10: know how to use Venmo and chat apps in all 628 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:12,760 Speaker 10: manner of other communication devices and ways to spread money 629 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,440 Speaker 10: that simply didn't exist when I was on the street. 630 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,840 Speaker 10: You don't see the kind of mafia violence that you 631 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,800 Speaker 10: saw thirty years ago. You'll have occasional hits where people 632 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,279 Speaker 10: will just disappear, but blast them up and leave them 633 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 10: in the street is not the way they operate now. 634 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,680 Speaker 1: And for that reason, the job never ends. 635 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:38,719 Speaker 10: In my experience, one of law enforcements bad tendencies is 636 00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,920 Speaker 10: they make a big case, declare victory, and walk away, 637 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:48,200 Speaker 10: and as soon as they do, the bad actors start multiplying. 638 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,239 Speaker 10: I've always likened them to cockroaches in the dark. There's 639 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:56,360 Speaker 10: never just one, and they're always busy, and if you 640 00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,239 Speaker 10: don't keep the lights on and do whatever it is 641 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,839 Speaker 10: you got to do to keep them under control, you're 642 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:03,080 Speaker 10: never going to eliminate him. 643 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:09,200 Speaker 1: And there are other seismic changes in American culture that 644 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:13,080 Speaker 1: can dramatically shift the landscape and the priorities of the 645 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,080 Speaker 1: criminal justice system. 646 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:21,960 Speaker 12: It appeared to back sharply and smash directly, perhaps purposely 647 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:27,399 Speaker 12: into Oh my goodness, oh god, there's another one. Oh, 648 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 12: oh my goodness, there's another one. 649 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,320 Speaker 5: Seems to be on purpose. 650 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:36,040 Speaker 12: Oh my goodness. Value Now it's obvious. I think that 651 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,240 Speaker 12: there's a second plane just crashed into. 652 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:42,160 Speaker 10: The World Trade Center after nine to eleven, it was 653 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:46,120 Speaker 10: all hands on deck. I worked terrorism for eight or 654 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 10: ten months. I was at the office constantly chasing down 655 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 10: terrorist leads. They were throwing every resource available into that thing. Then, 656 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,480 Speaker 10: of course, for years after, every time you started working 657 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:00,480 Speaker 10: wise guys again they ask you how come you're not 658 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,960 Speaker 10: chasing bin loott And instead of bothering them. 659 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,880 Speaker 4: I feel like it's sort of the natural. This is 660 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,400 Speaker 4: how it kind of goes in New York a lot. 661 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:13,000 Speaker 4: Like they're very successful against organized crime, and then they 662 00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,960 Speaker 4: condense squads, and then organized crime grows again, and then 663 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,479 Speaker 4: they have to expand squads, and then they condense again. 664 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:20,759 Speaker 4: So it's kind of an ebb and flow. But of 665 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,480 Speaker 4: course nine to eleven changed everything. Even in my own mind, 666 00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,400 Speaker 4: I was like, man, I feel like I should be 667 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:32,359 Speaker 4: working terrorism, working organized crime. Obviously it was serious, there 668 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:36,000 Speaker 4: were murders, there were victims, but I felt like there 669 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,360 Speaker 4: were three thousand plus innocent victims who weren't part of 670 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,920 Speaker 4: a crime family, who just went to work in New 671 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,080 Speaker 4: York that day, and if I could help stop the 672 00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:47,400 Speaker 4: next nine to eleven, like that's what I wanted to 673 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:47,920 Speaker 4: be working. 674 00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:53,160 Speaker 1: Just as the cigar chomping dawns of the criminal underworld 675 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:57,080 Speaker 1: gave way to international cartels. The face of crime is 676 00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:01,080 Speaker 1: always changing, and those tasked with keeping the criminals at 677 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:05,239 Speaker 1: bay they have to change just as fast, working as 678 00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:08,960 Speaker 1: a local attorney. James Leonard winnes the shift and priority 679 00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:10,080 Speaker 1: in real time. 680 00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,319 Speaker 11: What happens at the turn of the century, we go 681 00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:20,120 Speaker 11: from the war against the mafia into the war on terror. 682 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:24,560 Speaker 11: Guess where all of the FBI agents that were tracking 683 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:28,879 Speaker 11: the five families went after nine to eleven. They went 684 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 11: to anti terrorism squads because prosecuting terrorists in the United 685 00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:39,240 Speaker 11: States that could kill thousands of people who were certainly 686 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:44,040 Speaker 11: more of a priority than chasing around a bunch of 687 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:48,440 Speaker 11: guys from Brooklyn or Manhattan or Queen's or the Bronx. 688 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:54,480 Speaker 1: In some ways, the investigators dedicated to fighting organized crime 689 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,960 Speaker 1: were a victim of their own success. They had breached 690 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,040 Speaker 1: the wall of the enemy and dealt them a massive blow, 691 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,920 Speaker 1: and now with a new threat on the horizon, their 692 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:09,600 Speaker 1: forces were redeployed to other battlefields. Here again is former 693 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:11,400 Speaker 1: Brooklyn Prosecutor Chris Blank. 694 00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:15,719 Speaker 7: At that time there were about two hundred agents on 695 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:19,080 Speaker 7: those various squads, and over time, after nine to eleven. 696 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,440 Speaker 7: In particular, those squads got decimated as resources were put 697 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:26,319 Speaker 7: into anti terrorism, and now the organized crime section of 698 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,279 Speaker 7: the FBI is a shadow of what it was back 699 00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,480 Speaker 7: in the eighties and early nineties, some for legitimate reasons 700 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,520 Speaker 7: and some for just resource based priorities. 701 00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,520 Speaker 11: I couldn't tell you who the boss of the Geneees 702 00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,440 Speaker 11: crime family was today if you asked me to battle 703 00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,480 Speaker 11: on it, because I don't even know that the government knows. 704 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:52,040 Speaker 1: According to veteran prosecutor Andrew Weisman, underestimating today's organized crime 705 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:53,280 Speaker 1: is a great mistake. 706 00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:58,600 Speaker 9: My sense is not by any means that it's gone. 707 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:02,440 Speaker 9: I'm not that naive, but I don't think it has 708 00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:07,960 Speaker 9: the grip on every major industry in the city that 709 00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,600 Speaker 9: it used to have. But I do also think it 710 00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:15,560 Speaker 9: requires constant vigilance. If you don't continue, these things grow back. 711 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,319 Speaker 7: As much as you're talking about organized crime, whatever it is, 712 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,440 Speaker 7: there's only one reason this stuff is going on. It's 713 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:24,840 Speaker 7: all about the money. Who's making money and who's not. 714 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,080 Speaker 7: To me, every rico I ever did was always about 715 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,440 Speaker 7: making money and protecting your position so you could make more. 716 00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,839 Speaker 7: That aspect of the desire to make money has never 717 00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:38,399 Speaker 7: gone away, and the mob still exists and is still 718 00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,560 Speaker 7: out there and is still doing it. They've realized though, 719 00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:45,160 Speaker 7: that these in your face take to can only leave. 720 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,480 Speaker 7: The gun kind of incidents are costly to them and 721 00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,319 Speaker 7: their way of doing business, so they're still out there 722 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,800 Speaker 7: doing this stuff. They're not as crass and in your face, 723 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,160 Speaker 7: but on an individual level, the answer is yeah, you 724 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,399 Speaker 7: could find yourself running a foul of one of these 725 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:01,800 Speaker 7: guys and having to deal with them just like you 726 00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:03,600 Speaker 7: would have had to deal with them in the nineteen. 727 00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:08,560 Speaker 1: Fifties, and sometimes a victim's only defense in the face 728 00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:13,520 Speaker 1: of that injustice is the criminal justice system, the officers, 729 00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:19,560 Speaker 1: the agents, the prosecutors, and most importantly, the everyday citizens 730 00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:23,360 Speaker 1: that make up juries. These are the people working together 731 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:28,000 Speaker 1: with a singular mission to fight crime, yes, but really 732 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,359 Speaker 1: to secure the safety to go about our lives, to 733 00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:35,680 Speaker 1: earn a living, to feed our families without fear and 734 00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:41,279 Speaker 1: without being victimized. It's a never ending battle and often thankless. 735 00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,839 Speaker 1: But like the people who shared their stories with us 736 00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:47,879 Speaker 1: this season, these are not the kinds of people who 737 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,800 Speaker 1: do it for their recognition. The payoff is and always 738 00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,680 Speaker 1: will be, in the achievement of Justice in Knowing You 739 00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:59,680 Speaker 1: serve the victims, both the living and the dead. 740 00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:12,160 Speaker 2: Law and Order Criminal Justice System is a production of 741 00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:17,560 Speaker 2: Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcasts. Our host is Anna Sega Nicolazi. 742 00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:22,560 Speaker 2: This episode was written by Walker Lamond and Anna Sega Nicolazzi. 743 00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:27,440 Speaker 2: Executive produced by Dick Wolf, Elliott Wolf, and Stephen Michael 744 00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:33,359 Speaker 2: at Wolf Entertainment on behalf of iHeartRadio. Executive produced by 745 00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:38,399 Speaker 2: Alex Williams and Matt Frederick, with supervising producers Trevor Young 746 00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:43,319 Speaker 2: and Chandler Mays, and producers Jesse Funk, Nomes Griffin, and 747 00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:49,040 Speaker 2: Rima Alkali. This season is executive produced by Anna Sega Nicolazzi, 748 00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:55,359 Speaker 2: story producer Walker Lamond. Our researchers are Carolyn Talmach and 749 00:47:55,480 --> 00:48:00,440 Speaker 2: Luke Stance. Editing and sound designed by Nomes Griffin. Original 750 00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:06,120 Speaker 2: music by John O'Hara, original theme by Mike Post, additional 751 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:11,680 Speaker 2: music by Steve Moore, and additional voiceover by me Steve Zernkelton. 752 00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:17,000 Speaker 2: Special thanks to Fox five in New York, ABC and 753 00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:22,080 Speaker 2: CBS for providing archival material for the show. For more 754 00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:27,040 Speaker 2: podcasts from iHeartRadio and Wolf Entertainment, visit the iHeartRadio, app, 755 00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,800 Speaker 2: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 756 00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:32,240 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.