1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to Time Out. I'm Eve Rodsky, author of the 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,879 Speaker 1: New York Times bestseller fair Play and Find Your Unicorn Space, 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: activists on the gender division of labor, attorney and family mediator. 4 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 1: And I'm Doctor add In the Rucar, a physician and 5 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 1: medical correspondent with an expertise in the science of stress, resilience, 6 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: mental health, and burnout. We're here to peel back to 7 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: layers around why it's so easy for society to guard 8 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: men's time as if it's diamonds and to treat women's 9 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: time as if it's infinite like sands. And whether you 10 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 1: are partnered with or without children, or in a career 11 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: where you want more boundaries, this is the place for 12 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: you for all family structures. We're here to take a 13 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 1: time out to learn, get inspired, and most importantly, reclaim 14 00:00:49,800 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: our time. High d D Hi, Eve, I'm feeling a 15 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: little nostalgic today because this is the end of our 16 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: first season and this has been such a fun and 17 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: a really interesting ride with who we've been able to 18 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: talk with. So as I was thinking about the end 19 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: of the season, I really wanted us to address this 20 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: idea of legacy, what we're remembered for because at the 21 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: end of the day, you know, it's not always the 22 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: things that we spend our time on. That's why we're 23 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: here in the Time Out podcast right to scrutinize and 24 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: encourage people to make active decisions about how they spend 25 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: their time. So the story I wanted to tell you 26 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 1: today has to do with my day job, which I 27 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: don't talk about that often on this podcast, but for 28 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: over ten years, as you know, I've been a philanthropic advisor. 29 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: I work with families on their legal matters and their 30 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: governance related to family businesses, family foundations, families that look 31 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: like the HBO show Succession. As we've laughed and said, 32 00:01:58,080 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: and as we said to our listeners, you should feel 33 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: bad for me. But one story that really stood out 34 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: to me was right before the pandemic, one of my 35 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 1: clients in the Pacific Northwest called me and said, I 36 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 1: was thinking about you today. I was at a funeral 37 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: and so I said to my client, well, thanks, it's 38 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 1: really nice of you to think of me when you're 39 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: at a funeral. What made you think of me? And 40 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: he said, well, I'm at a funeral of a colleague 41 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: and my client is a tighten of business in the 42 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest. This was another tighten of business in the 43 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest. He had passed away. There was a packed church, 44 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: and my client was there to pay his respects. In 45 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 1: the church, something happens where all three of his daughters, 46 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: the man who passed away, all start to approach the 47 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: podium where they were going to speak, and they say 48 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: things that are silly, childlike poems. So the first daughter 49 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: goes up, she recites a poem that's like a Shelf 50 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: Silverstein poem, rhyming and beautiful and funny, and the audience, 51 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: the mourners start laughing. And then the next daughter comes 52 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: up and she does the same thing. It's a different poem. 53 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: And then the third daughter comes up and also reads 54 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: a really funny, silly, beautiful, rhyming poem that again sounds 55 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: like it was published by someone. And then everyone in 56 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: the audience is very confused. My client tells me, and 57 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 1: then all three daughters lean into the microphone and say, 58 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: those were poems our father wrote for us as the 59 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: tooth fairy. Wow, he was our tooth fairy. And what 60 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: my client was reflecting on after leaving the church was 61 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: that nobody talked about his business career. What people were 62 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: remembering from that day were his poems, the fact that 63 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: it was probably strange back then for any man to 64 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: be the tooth fairy. Even now in my data, that 65 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: usually is done by women and heterosist gender partnerships. But 66 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: on top of it, what my client said to me was, 67 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: I had no idea, working with this man for years 68 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: and years that he was a poet, such a beautiful, 69 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 1: skilled poet. And it got me thinking about how we're remembered, 70 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: what do we spend our time on and why, And 71 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: so I would love to hear your thoughts, because we're 72 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 1: going to get to hear from our amazing guests, Nor McNerney, 73 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: who really speaks so deeply about issues of legacy, grief, existence, 74 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: existential meaning. But I'd love to hear from you about 75 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 1: this idea of an act of legacy. I read about 76 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: it and find your unicorn space, this idea that we 77 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: can't control how we're remembered, whether it's this titan of 78 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: business who will be remembered in that room for his 79 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: poems and other things. But I do know that we 80 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: can start to think about our values and how we 81 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: live our daily lives that will shape how people remember us, 82 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: and I wanted to know what are things that you 83 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: think about in terms of what we can focus on now, 84 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: what our priorities can be now as we think about 85 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: how we will be remembered in the future. So first, 86 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 1: before we talk about this idea of an active legacy, 87 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: they think back to this Harvard study it's called the 88 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: Harvard Happiness Study. And more than money or titles or 89 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: positions of power or all of the things, you know, 90 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: many of these men were titans of business, as you say, 91 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 1: and yet when it came down to the end of 92 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: their life and they reflected back on their life, the 93 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: greatest marker for happy enus was the quality of relationships 94 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 1: that these people had over seventy five years. So when 95 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: we think about leaving an active legacy, it's less about 96 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: the doing and more about the being. There is another 97 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: really beautiful book that speaks to this, written by a 98 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 1: woman named Brawny, where the Top five Regrets of the 99 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 1: Dying And she was a palliative care nurse and spent 100 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: years sitting at the bedside of people as they took 101 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 1: their last breath in hospice care. And she asked these 102 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 1: people as they were dying, what do you wish for, 103 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:43,239 Speaker 1: what do you regret? And everyone said their most common 104 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: regret was in quotes, I wish I'd had the courage 105 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,359 Speaker 1: to live a life true to myself, not the life 106 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 1: others expected of me. It's about living a life with 107 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: no regrets. So when you get to the end of 108 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: your life, as we all will, hopefully for any of us, 109 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: we won't have that sense of regret. Shout out to Ben, 110 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: my ten year old son, who knew we were going 111 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: to be talking about an active legacy and what makes 112 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: a successful life and I was sort of joining on 113 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: and on about it, and he says to me, well, 114 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: it's just really one sentence, mom if you want to 115 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: think about what an active legacy is or what a 116 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: successful life is. And I was like, okay, well tell 117 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: me and he said, well, an act of legacy, living 118 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: a successful life really is living a life you would repeat. Wow, 119 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: it happens in the small moments. It happens when you're 120 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: sitting at desk at night and start scribbling that poem 121 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: for your child that ends up going under their pillow. 122 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:49,239 Speaker 1: The beauty of these hard questions is that it's really 123 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: just about making these small moments matter that add up 124 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: to a life you would repeat. We're so excited to 125 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: talk about all of this with our guests, Nora mcannerney, 126 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: author of It's Okay to Laugh and No Happy Endings 127 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: and also the creator of Terrible. Thanks for asking the podcast. 128 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: We'll be speaking to her after the break. For so 129 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: thrilled to have Norah McInnerny here with us. Norah is 130 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: the author of the amazing memoirs It's Okay to Laugh 131 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: and No Happy Endings and hosts of Terrible. Thanks for 132 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: asking the podcast. We were hoping you would start by 133 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: just telling listeners how you got into the work, um 134 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: of what you do now, who you are, and about 135 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 1: your background. Hi Eve, Hello d D. I am an 136 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: author of several funny books about sad things, and I 137 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: am a remarried widow raising a blended family here in Phoenix, Arizona. 138 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 1: And before all of that, I was just a regular 139 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: Midwestern gal whose life had unfolded more or less the 140 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: way that it was supposed to. I had had a 141 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 1: semi traumatic experience in fourth grade where I got a 142 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: bowl cut. Other than that, my life was blessedly boring. 143 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: I did all the right things at the right time. 144 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: I went to college, and then I got a job 145 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: and I fell in love when I was twenty seven, 146 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: which in the Midwest was pushing it. I fell in 147 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: love with this guy and he was thirty one older, man, 148 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: felt very sophisticated, and it was so perfect. It was 149 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: so annoying, like every love story is, which is you know, 150 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: didn't expect it, And there he was. And a year 151 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: into our relationship, he had a seizure at work and 152 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: I met him at the hospital. We really didn't think 153 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: it was serious. Even when the doctors told us he 154 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: had a brain tumor. We just thought, well, it can't 155 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: be cancer. Those are the things that happened to other people. 156 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: We will be the people who have a nice, little, 157 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: benign brain tumor. And this is a story that we 158 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: we tell and we laugh about someday, and we do. 159 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,319 Speaker 1: We did laugh about that story, but only because it 160 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: was a very bad brain tumor. He had stage four 161 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:30,599 Speaker 1: glioblastoma and we were married a month after it was 162 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: removed from his head, and his funeral was on our 163 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: third wedding anniversary. So Aaron and I were together for 164 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:43,719 Speaker 1: four years. We were married for almost three. We had 165 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: a son together, Ralph, who is now nine years old, 166 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: and who is a part of this version of my life. 167 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: And I have this whole different life, this whole different 168 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: career that I never could have imagined, because I had 169 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: no imagination, and I could not have perceived of a 170 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: life other than the one that I hoped for and 171 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: had anticipated having, which is that you do the right 172 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,439 Speaker 1: things and then the right things happened to you, and 173 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: instead I have a very different, very beautiful life that 174 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: I love, and I have a very different career that 175 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: I love that I never ever would have chosen. Imagination 176 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: is an interesting word to me, Nora, because it ties 177 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: to this idea of a legacy, an active legacy, right, 178 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: this idea that instead of just looking behind saying the 179 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 1: best days are behind us, I would say that I 180 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: would challenge us all to have imagination, to say what 181 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: does it actually mean to live an active legacy? And 182 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 1: so the question I wanted to ask you, Nora, is 183 00:11:55,760 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: why does it sometimes take and extraordinarily terrible experience for 184 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: people to wake up, whether it's the pandemic, whether it's 185 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 1: the death of a spouse, a d D. You've said 186 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: that it's been a cancer diagnosis for many of your patients, 187 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: why do we have to wait for something terrible to 188 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: happen to us, for us to wake up to say, 189 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: we are living on a treadmill that has been decided 190 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: by somebody else, not us, and I want to live 191 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 1: my life by what is important to me. I am 192 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 1: so interested a d d. In your take on this, 193 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: because we talk a lot about mindfulness as a practice, 194 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: like I'm gonna turn on this app and be mindful 195 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 1: for ten minutes, you know, I'm gonna And I did it. 196 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 1: I did my mindfulness, and I've certainly treated it like that. 197 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,679 Speaker 1: But I think one of the reasons why the time 198 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: that I had with Aaron, and most of the time 199 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: that I had with him, he was very sick and 200 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: life was very hard, but that those hardest days of 201 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: my life were to date still some of my happiest days, 202 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: because we were so present, and because looking too far 203 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: into the future meant imagining a future where he might 204 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: not be there would most likely not be there, and 205 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: looking too hard at the past was useless because what 206 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: was even there? Like what was there? We we knew 207 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: that there was nothing we could do to have, you know, 208 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: change the outcome. I couldn't have gone back in time 209 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: and rearrange the cells and his brain. So we're so 210 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: so present with each other. And I do think that 211 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: when the bottom falls out, what remains is so so valuable, 212 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 1: even if what remains is not that great, if you 213 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: could choose it, you know, the fact is like we don't. 214 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: We don't get to choose it. And I wish so 215 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: badly that I could live all of my life, even 216 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:04,199 Speaker 1: those previous decades before Aaron was sick, with that same awareness. 217 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: And I wish I knew how honestly, I wish I 218 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: wish I knew how. While your story is so powerful, 219 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 1: what's so interesting in hearing you and Eve talked about 220 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: this is this idea that anxiety is a future focused emotion. Right, 221 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: that was the first thing I thought about. How you 222 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: talked about being mindful and that like truth of the 223 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: universe is just to be president in the moment. What 224 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: is mindfulness? And that's what it is. But when we're 225 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: thinking about the past, there's a lot of regret, maybe 226 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: feelings of depression and going back, and then we often 227 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: say that anxiety is a future focused emotion, what if, 228 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: what if? What if? What if? Rather than being in 229 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: the now. For many of my patients. When something traumatic happens, 230 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: it is a great reckoning. And to Eve's question, that 231 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: original question of why does it take something like that 232 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: to happen, I often think it's because we are so 233 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: set in our complacency and it's the only thing that 234 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: shakes us out of our complacency. And then suddenly there's 235 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: that reckoning. And I loved when you talked about that 236 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: like essence. Right, you didn't use that word essence, but 237 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: that kernel of when everything falls apart, what's left, and 238 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: that feeling of what's left and pairing things down is 239 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: what we've really experience during the pandemic. You kind of 240 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: recognize that your time here isn't necessarily guaranteed. That is 241 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: what keeps us too when we when I talked about 242 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: imagination before, you can feel bad for anybody, right, And 243 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: I had a lot of pity. Right. I could drive 244 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: around the Minneapolis where I lived at the time and 245 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: be like, Oh, I feel bad for that. That makes 246 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: me feel bad. But that's different. That's not compassion, and 247 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: that's not imagination, right, It's just it's projection. And the 248 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: reality of compassion and of having a good imagination, a 249 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: good sense of awareness is that awareness that what you 250 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: think sets you part is actually what makes you a 251 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: part of the world, of this universe, of your community. 252 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: I want to just focus on what you just said 253 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: about what sets you apart, makes you apart, because I wonder, um, 254 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: if we could talk a little bit about that, this 255 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: idea that I've never seen in this in my research 256 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: for my second book around creativity and constraints, I've never 257 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: seen somebody say when I had, you know, a hard 258 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: thing happened to me. I have never heard somebody say 259 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: that it made them not feel less a part of 260 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: the bigger world, which I thought was so interesting to me. 261 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: You would think that it would it would lead to 262 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: retreat and anger and wanting to never face the world again. 263 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: But that really wasn't. At least my data is so. 264 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: And I wonder again if you see this in your communities, 265 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: where this idea of what sets is apart all of 266 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: a sudden makes us apart of something, whether it's your 267 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: text chain of widows, whether it's the community for women 268 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 1: with postpartum anxiety, whether it's so many of my friends 269 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: who have had cancer diagnosis these part of new different communities, 270 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: whether it's full of creativity, sharing imagination, like you said, empathy, 271 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: even some surprise. So it makes me hopeful that maybe 272 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: if we look at this pandemic and all the individual 273 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: things that happened to us, could be come out living 274 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 1: an active legacy that is connected to that apart a part, 275 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: not a part, a part of something bigger. And I 276 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: wonder if you see that in your community. Do you 277 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 1: hear stories like that, Nora, from the people that share 278 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: with you after you were sharing with them. Yeah, and 279 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: I lived it too, which is not to say that 280 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: I didn't also go through just like intense depression and isolation, 281 00:17:55,440 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: and also when I would look back at those moments 282 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: where I felt like I am totally alone, there's nobody 283 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: else here and everything is the worst. I also had 284 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: so much community in so many ways. Aaron and I 285 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: wrote his obituary together. We put it in the local paper. 286 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: I didn't think they would publish it, but this is 287 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 1: a fact for everybody who's listening. They will publish anything. 288 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: You pay for it. It's an ad for your death. 289 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: You can so live it up. And we revealed his 290 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: identity as Spider Man and it went viral, which was 291 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: a different, simpler time. Okay, it was a simpler time, 292 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 1: and I got so many messages. This is how I 293 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,360 Speaker 1: started terrible. Thanks for asking. Most of our episodes are 294 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: stories that came to me where people are reaching out 295 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: and sharing something with me. These were complete strangers from 296 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 1: around the world who did not know me, who did 297 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 1: not know erin, who were like, I'm here with you. 298 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 1: I know loss, and i know how disorienting it is, 299 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: and they were offering me something, and they would share 300 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: their own loss with me with detail that they may 301 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: never have given their friends or family members. In part 302 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: because there is that recognition you might be a safe 303 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: place for me to put this. You just might be. 304 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 1: And I've tried so hard to make sure that I 305 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:18,880 Speaker 1: am that safe place for other people. And David Kessler. 306 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 1: He worked with Elizabeth Coogler Ross on the five Stages 307 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: of grief. He wrote a recent book called Finding Meaning, 308 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: which is the sixth stage of grief. I have seen 309 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: this in almost every story that I've encountered as I 310 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: meet people too, which is that once you go through something, 311 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: you want to somehow like use it for some good 312 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: right that you are not the only one. I see 313 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: that all the time. I think it is the most 314 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 1: human reaction that we can have to say I want 315 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: to ease somebody else's suffering in a way that mine 316 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 1: was or was not. That it's like that idea their 317 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 1: cracks and everything. That's how the light gets in, right. 318 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 1: And there's this concept of a therapeutic presence, meaning it's 319 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: when you're with someone and their presence feels healing. That 320 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 1: idea of a therapeutic presence is very important. It also 321 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: has been shown recently in new emerging studies that it 322 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 1: has an actual role to play in healing. And even 323 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: I in the past have talked a lot about the 324 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 1: difference between healing and cure and how someone may never 325 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: be cured because it might be an incurable disease, but 326 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: they can be healed. The thing about this group effect, 327 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: which is so fascinating, Nora, it's what you're saying, this 328 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: idea that when we have a lived experience, a tragedy, 329 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: something that really defines and shapes us and shapes our 330 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: story forever. It's like there's that clear delineation before and after, 331 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: right like that one incident. As human beings, we are 332 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: meaning seeking, purpose driven creatures. We need to make meaning 333 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: and send out of difficult experiences. It's just an evolutionary 334 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 1: trait that we have, and so that when we go 335 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 1: through something difficult, and like you said, Nor at the start, 336 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: you felt alone and isolated, and then you put out 337 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 1: that obituary and all of these people started reaching out 338 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: to you. It helped to normalize and validate the experience, 339 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:25,640 Speaker 1: which somehow helped you feel less alone, more connected, and 340 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: a greater sense of therapeutic presence all around you. You 341 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: were also able to give that therapeutic presence to others, 342 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 1: and that's that group effect. It is a true scientific 343 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: and measurable effect. And you've all done something different as 344 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 1: a result of this event. That's also important to say. 345 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:46,360 Speaker 1: You found meeting and purpose and created a whole career 346 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 1: as someone who offers their therapeutic presence to others. Thank you. 347 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: And all I wanted to do was to make sure 348 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 1: that people knew that they were not the only one 349 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: and to validate the fact that life is hard for 350 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 1: everybody in different ways. And that is all we want 351 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: as people is you feel seen and heard, and if 352 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: you don't, try to make somebody else feel that way, 353 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: and it will, and it will, it will hopefully at 354 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: some point, like reflect back to you, will come back 355 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: to you. When you talk about leaving and a living 356 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: an active legacy, Eve, It's like what you do is 357 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: you reflect back to people the things that you didn't 358 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,959 Speaker 1: have right in the moment, and you are also showing 359 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:39,439 Speaker 1: people what is possible. I was reading something yesterday about, 360 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: you know, the privilege of vulnerability, right, this idea that 361 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: a lot of times it's hard to be vulnerable if 362 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 1: you aren't in a place of privilege where you may 363 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: not feel like you have that supportive community or even 364 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 1: a supportive job. So there is a privilege in vulnerability. 365 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: But you know, when you use those redemptive experiences of vulnerability, 366 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: I wonder by doing something with it if we're if 367 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 1: that's part of an act of legacy. Other people don't 368 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: may not have that ability to use their voice for 369 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,959 Speaker 1: that type of vulnerability. And how can I create that 370 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 1: community or a world where everybody is entitled to that 371 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: type of imagination, surprise, compassion. You know, we we this 372 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: This first season has been about understanding that time is 373 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:34,160 Speaker 1: not infinite, that time is diamonds, that we get one life. 374 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: It may be interrupted abruptly, or as you said, if 375 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,439 Speaker 1: we're lucky, we get more time on this earth. But 376 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: it's just one life, and this episode we wanted to 377 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: end the season on it because we believe this idea 378 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: of an act of legacy is living on this earth 379 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: with intention, which is the exact opposite of what you 380 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: said when we started, which was this idea of living 381 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:07,199 Speaker 1: life without really thinking about the decisions were necessarily making, 382 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,880 Speaker 1: living on a treadmill, auto pilot, not paying attention. So 383 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:17,160 Speaker 1: for us to understand time, we thought you could help 384 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: us wrap up the season by this recognition that maybe 385 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: all of us won't have a wake up moment, a 386 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: light bulb moment. So what can you say to those 387 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 1: people out there who didn't have, you know, an experience 388 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: like you had obviously, but do you want to learn 389 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: from what you did? What can they do and put 390 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 1: into practice? To live a life where time has really 391 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: looked at the way it should be is our most 392 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: valuable currency. I do think sometimes that that realization or 393 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 1: that acknowledgement to live constantly with the sense of a 394 00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 1: ticking clock is also not healthy. Right If every a 395 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,199 Speaker 1: you wake up and think this could be it like 396 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: that is that is no way to live. There is 397 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: no way to live. But there's this Mason Jennings song 398 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 1: that I listened to you over and over when Aaron 399 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: was first diagnosed, called be here Now, And those are 400 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 1: basically the lyrics, right like be here now, no other 401 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: place will do. And I got the word now tattooed 402 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,959 Speaker 1: on the inside of my wrist to remind me of 403 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,919 Speaker 1: the value of the present moments. And that does not 404 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 1: mean that we have to love every moment. It does 405 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: not mean that you have to go yolo. Our time 406 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: does not need to be spent in big, splashy ways constantly. 407 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: The biggest moments are typically going to be the smallest moments. 408 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: When I am eighty five years old, I want to 409 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: remember the feeling of my youngest child sitting in the 410 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: mom chair, which is what he calls, my body on 411 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: the couch, and he holds my arm and he puts 412 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: my hand across his heart and it covers almost his 413 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: whole chest. Like that is that is everything, And that 414 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,439 Speaker 1: is such a small, small thing. We have so little 415 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: control over our legacy, active or not. We do not 416 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 1: know how our interactions ow our investments in time or 417 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: money will pay off. We don't know those those those 418 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,239 Speaker 1: seeds will be sown long after we are gone. In 419 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:32,879 Speaker 1: so many ways. And what I remember about Aaron is 420 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: I don't want to remember just that he died, or 421 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: the fact that he died. Like what I remember is 422 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: that he spent an entire year memorizing all of his 423 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: friends middle names and birthdays, because he said, to be 424 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,400 Speaker 1: a good friend, you had to know somebody's middle name 425 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: and their birthday. That is living in active legacy is 426 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:55,679 Speaker 1: being so present, as present as possible with the people 427 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 1: you love, with the things that are important to you. 428 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 1: And I know that we don't always have control over that, 429 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 1: but if you do, even for a minute, that's worthwhile too. 430 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 1: In mindfulness circles, we talk a lot about that idea 431 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,120 Speaker 1: of the timelessness of the present moment, and a mindfulness 432 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,239 Speaker 1: teacher once said to me, and look around all of 433 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: these intense stories that people are sharing. Recognize that every 434 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,879 Speaker 1: single person that you meet on the street lives with 435 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: that same intensity in their lives that you do. Very 436 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 1: simple statement. It rocked me, shocked me had never thought 437 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: about that. We all go through life thinking we're leading 438 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: this intense experience, which we are, but so is everyone else. 439 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: And your story of this traumatic event which ultimately lead 440 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:55,159 Speaker 1: to a beautiful unfolding of you as you're really recognizing 441 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,679 Speaker 1: your true self seems to me. But you had to 442 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 1: go through that really intense experience, and because you went 443 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: through that intensity, you are able to connect with others 444 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 1: who have been through that same intensity, and so you 445 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: exude empathy to me. And I can't thank you enough 446 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: for your vulnerability and your sharing and your perspective. Thank you, guys, Hi, 447 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: it's me Eve. I wrote find your Unicorn Space as 448 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: a permission slip for you to reconnect and discover that 449 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: thing that makes you come alive without the guilt, without 450 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: the excuses. Especially in our all too busy world, making 451 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 1: time for ourselves is essential work. It improves our health, 452 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: our relationships, and it just might be the antidote to burnout. 453 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: Join me on a journey to find your Unicorn Space. 454 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: Visit unicorn space dot com. Did I can't believe that 455 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: we're at our last episode of the season. Unbelievable. I know, 456 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: I'm pretty reflective just given how much knowledge I feel 457 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: like we got to glean from our really amazing variety 458 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: of guests. It's definitely been a journey. So part of 459 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: that journey, I think, is really this idea of how 460 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: do we want to commit to continuing this journey, this 461 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: active legacy. What sets you apart makes you apart. So 462 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: as we think about what sets you apart and what 463 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: makes you apart, it's great to have a map and 464 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: and we like to call that the creativity commitment. It's 465 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 1: a way forward. It's definitely focuses on what sets you apart, 466 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: but it also ends on what makes you apart. And 467 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 1: so A d D I thought, if you would please 468 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: model this creativity commitment, we can check in on you 469 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: in season two, but also our listeners can follow along 470 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: with us at page two O nine and find your 471 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: unicorn space. So here it is. My name is at 472 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: Dating a root car. My motivating values include joy, helpfulness, 473 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: and inspiration. I love it today and moving forward. I 474 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: give myself permission to live by my values. I allow 475 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: my values to inform my day to day curiosities, some 476 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: of which are public health, mental health, stress, resilience, bettering 477 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: the world through my knowledge, wanting to connect with other people. 478 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: I am committed to explore deeper and pursue activities and 479 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: interests that are in alignment with my values. What you 480 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 1: just said, I planned to take my open pursuit as 481 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: far as this one is, think a big, hairy, audacious, 482 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: authentic goal. You know, at the start of the pandemic, 483 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: I was a doctor seeing patients talking about stress management. 484 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: It was a stressful time because modern life is stressful. 485 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: The pandemic happened and it turned everything on its head. 486 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: Prior to seeing patients and being a doctor, I worked 487 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: in global public health in Geneva with the w h 488 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:47,239 Speaker 1: O Collaborating Center on refugee health, HIV and AIDS. I 489 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: never thought that infectious disease and that whole world would 490 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: ever align or combine with my work and stress management. 491 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: And here we are the pandemic. So in thinking about 492 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 1: how I want to serve the world and be bigger 493 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: and have a bigger impact, but also more aligned with 494 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: my values, it would be when you ask me that question, 495 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: I would say, I want to go all the way, 496 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 1: whatever that may be in terms of helping with health, communication, 497 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 1: for public health, COVID, mental health, refugee health, stress, resilience, 498 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:29,479 Speaker 1: all of it, because we are living in a unprecedented time. 499 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: And like you have always said, I love when you 500 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: say that you met the moment with fair play, and 501 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: I am ready to meet the moment with my expertise. Now, wow, 502 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: I love that so much because when anybody thinks about stress, resilience, 503 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: burnout and it's implication on the physical body or the brain, 504 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: I want them to thank dr Adity neuro car. So 505 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 1: that's our big, hairy, audacious, authentic goal for you. My 506 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: first actionable, small step forward toward leveling up and reaching 507 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: my goal is committing to fostering my communication practice every 508 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: single day, whether that means writing a few pages in 509 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: my upcoming book or doing a TV interview, something every 510 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: day that moves the needle for me. I love that 511 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 1: so much. A communication practice. I mean, you're a woman 512 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: after my own heart. As you know my date for 513 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 1: completing Well, you just said the date is every day, 514 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna let you get off on that one. 515 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,959 Speaker 1: My type of share that most resonates with me is 516 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: and what I mean by that is why when you 517 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: think about why you share yourself with the world, what 518 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: are some of the motivations for why you want to 519 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: share yourself with the world. I've never been motivated by 520 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: money or fame. What I have always been motivated by 521 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 1: is connection. I went into medicine for the power of 522 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,719 Speaker 1: the human story. I love that moment in clinic when 523 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,880 Speaker 1: you explain something complex to a patient and they have 524 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 1: that lightbulb aha moment. I love that same thing when 525 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:21,280 Speaker 1: people respond, whether through email or d M s, saying 526 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,720 Speaker 1: you explain something or you had some insight on mental 527 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: health or public health. It's those ah ha moments that 528 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: I live for. I love them because it tells me 529 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:38,759 Speaker 1: that people are thinking differently, and that is so meaningful. Connection. 530 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,399 Speaker 1: You're sharing to connect and to pass on what you 531 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 1: know in very complicated ways and the community I intend 532 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: to connect with. Speaking of connection along my journey is 533 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 1: and what I mean by that is who who are 534 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: your spiritual friends? Who keeps you going towards this big 535 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 1: vision of a doctor a DD neural car Media World 536 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: Domination LLC becomes I think women like you Eve and 537 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: other women like so many of the guests that we've 538 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 1: had this season, people who are standing in their power, 539 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 1: living their truth and owning their authentic selves. What's been 540 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:27,239 Speaker 1: fascinating about this conversation with Nora Eve is that she 541 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 1: has committed to this creative pursuit, a life of impact. 542 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 1: She didn't go to some mountaintop or some fancy spa 543 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 1: and a retreat and then have these aha moments. Life 544 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 1: handed her a deck of cards and she played them 545 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: the best that she could. And I think for all 546 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 1: of us, whether we've had a traumatic experience like Nora 547 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:55,960 Speaker 1: or otherwise, we have the hand that life dealt us 548 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 1: and we have to play it to the best of 549 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: our ability. To me, is a true commitment that we 550 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: all should actively pursue as our active legacy. I love 551 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,240 Speaker 1: that so much, Adity, because at the end of the day, 552 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 1: this commitment to live creatively does not mean that you're 553 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 1: going to be living in a studio with no rain 554 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: on you and perfect birds chirping outside and the most 555 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 1: beautiful canvas in front of you. That's just not the 556 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:32,359 Speaker 1: way life works. But creativity is taking those values, it's 557 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,360 Speaker 1: taking your experiences, and what you say to yourself is 558 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 1: that I'm going to live that active legacy by living 559 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,840 Speaker 1: those values, by moving forward in those values and really 560 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 1: big ways possibly, but also by taking really really small steps. 561 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: And everybody out there, you know this is not an 562 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,400 Speaker 1: easy exercise. We build to it over two hundred pages 563 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,040 Speaker 1: and find your unicorn space, but it's an important on 564 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 1: because this is a vision board, this is a commitment. 565 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 1: This is a way forward in a journey. This is 566 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 1: how we can think about what sets us apart but 567 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,840 Speaker 1: also what makes us apart, and being intentional in this 568 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,439 Speaker 1: part of our lives is an investment that we can't 569 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:23,760 Speaker 1: afford not to make at this stage, after the biggest 570 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: disruption of our global lives. We have to commit to 571 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 1: making these changes and being apart to become apart. So 572 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 1: in our last time out of the season, what we 573 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:44,279 Speaker 1: want you to do is make a creativity commitment. You 574 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,239 Speaker 1: can find it on page two O nine to find 575 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:50,720 Speaker 1: your Unicorn space or at fair play life dot com. 576 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 1: We'll be back next season to dive into more topics 577 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:58,360 Speaker 1: like this and especially unicorn space, finding it, showcasing it, 578 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 1: celebrating it, dancing in the rain together. Thank you all 579 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,799 Speaker 1: for listening to this first season. Please share the show 580 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,240 Speaker 1: with your friends, tell us what you liked, what you learned, 581 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 1: what you want to hear next, who you'd like for 582 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 1: us to feature as a guest, and we'll be back soon. 583 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Time Out, a production of 584 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:24,440 Speaker 1: I Heeart Podcasts and Hello Sunshine. I'm Eve Rodsky, author 585 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,239 Speaker 1: of the New York Times bestseller fair Play and find 586 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 1: your Unicorn Space. Follow me on social media at ev 587 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 1: rodsky and learn more about our work at fair Play Life. 588 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,239 Speaker 1: And I'm dr Addi Nearucar, a Harvard physician with a 589 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 1: specialty and stress resilience, burnout, and mental health. Follow me 590 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 1: on social media at dr add ne Rucar and find 591 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,880 Speaker 1: out more about my work at dr dd dot com. 592 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,839 Speaker 1: That's d r A d I t I dot com. 593 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:56,239 Speaker 1: Our Hello Sunshine team is Amanda Farrend, Aaron Stover, and 594 00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:00,879 Speaker 1: Jennifer Yonker. Our I Heart Media team is Allie Perry, 595 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: Jennifer Bassett, and Jessica Crnschi. We hope you all love 596 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,480 Speaker 1: taking a much needed time out with us today. Listen 597 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,360 Speaker 1: and subscribe to Time Out on the I Heart Radio app, 598 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,720 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.