WEBVTT - Peter Asher's Long and Winding Road 0:00:02.000 --> 0:00:05.600 This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:11.520 As a singer, guitarist, producer and manager, Peter Asher has 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:14.480 been at the center of some of the most important 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:19.720 music and moments of the rock era. In nineteen sixty four, 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:23.680 he was just nineteen when his London based duo Peter 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:28.000 and Gordon released its first single, A World Without Love. 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:31.400 It reached number one on the charts on both sides 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.640 of the Atlantic. That's quite a feat, but not that 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:37.040 surprising when you learned that it was written by his 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:40.720 sister's then boyfriend, a young man by the name of 0:00:41.120 --> 0:01:04.040 Paul McCartney and Ray I don't care that coincidence. Didn't 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:07.959 just score him a hit song. It was Asher's entree 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:12.600 into beatles land. After Peter and Gordon fizzled, he joined 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:16.880 forces with the Beatles to launch Apple Records. Paul and 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:20.000 I had conversations about Apple long before it started. I 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:24.120 would spend evenings over at his house, Cavinish Avenue. By 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:27.000 this time we moved out both of us family home, 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:30.640 and you know, talking about what Apple was supposed to 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:32.280 be and all that stuff. And then when it became real, 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:34.399 he asked me to be a head of Anna. As 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:39.080 a music exact at Apple, Asher discovered and signed folk 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:43.720 icon James Taylor I've Seen Far and I've Seen Rain. 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:49.800 He moved on from his role at Apple to become 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:53.440 a full time producer, working with legends like Diana Ross 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:58.040 Share and Neil Diamond and producing multi platinum albums with 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:09.280 Diamond and Linda Ronstad. More recently, Asher put all of 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:12.440 these stories into his book The Beatles A to Z 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:17.360 an Alphabetical Musical Tour, and he hosts a weekly show 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:21.200 about the band, called From Me to You on Sirius 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:23.959 x M. Indeed, when they called me and said would 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:26.000 you be interested in my first goal was to Apple 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:28.320 and and to Ringo to make sure that it was, 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:33.519 you know, Beatle approved. As associated as Peter Asher now 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:37.320 is with rock and roll, his early musical formation was 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:41.320 something else entirely. I grew up in a very classical background. 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:44.440 My mother was a classical musician. She bade Yebo. She 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:47.440 played in various major orchestras and ended up being ober 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:50.560 professor at the Royal Academy of Music in London. So 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:52.760 that's what I grew up with. This was a lot 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:56.000 of classical musical and My father was an eminent physician 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:59.640 but also an amateur pianist, big Gilbern Sullivan fan. So 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:01.160 I grew up with all of that. How many kids 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:05.520 in your family? Three two sisters, your sister Jane. Yes, 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:08.560 when you grew you grew up where in London, in 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:10.240 the middle of London. You in the middle of London 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:13.840 and Wimpole Street, you know that medical area, that's Winpole Street, 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:17.200 Harley Street where where you we began in a flat, 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:20.680 not not there, but but as you advanced in the 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:23.560 medical profession, eventually you're entitled to move to What kind 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:25.240 of music did you listen to as a child or 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:30.480 even as a teenager. As a teenager, um, I discovered jazz. 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:33.560 I was a big bebop fan, and eventually discovered rock 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:36.760 and roll, Elvis, Elvis, Um. But first of it was 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:39.480 that we had our rock and roll as we lived Richard, 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:43.720 Tommy Steele. The first record I ever bought was Tommy 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:47.800 Steele record called Rock with the Caveman and and the 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:51.120 song was written by lionel Bart went on to write 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:54.360 of the musical So yeah, and of course we all 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:58.720 bought Rock around the Clock, and we later discovered Elvis. Now, 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:01.520 when you decide you're going to form You you played 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:04.720 an instrument, you taught yourself to play. Yes, got a guitar. 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:07.000 We all had skifful groups, learned a few chords and 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:08.960 so on. Yes, how did you get representation and get 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:11.160 a recording deal? I started up with a skifful group 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:14.960 with a couple of friends. Uh the a one skillful group, 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:20.159 not very reason um, deeply unoriginal. And then at school 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:23.360 I met Gordon Waller and who also played the guitar 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:26.400 and sang, and we started seeing together and decided to 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:29.800 become a Westminster school And for what it's a very 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:32.240 potsh English public school. What do you want to study? 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:34.280 Would you think? What do you think you wanted to be? Well? 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:38.200 I wasn't sure then an engineer was something like stable No, no. 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:40.320 Oddly enough, the day we were doing this interview, it 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:42.400 would have been a significant profession because I wanted to 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:46.000 be an MP. See if I'd take him that career path, 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:49.440 I would by now have been prim I'd be Prime 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:52.479 Minister and the whole mess would have been I would 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:56.159 have solved everything. But if only, but sadly no, that 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:58.240 was my other ambition was to be an MP. And 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:00.560 of course every MP's ambition is to be prime minister. 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:04.200 But anyway, we met at Westminster, we started singing together. 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:07.600 Um we got you know, we started seeing at school 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:11.440 events and parties and so on, and you start to 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:13.640 find yourself getting invited to a lot of parties by 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:16.800 people you don't know, and they say, oh, by the way, 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:19.240 bring your guitars, and it dawns on you. Eventually you 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:21.839 just got booked for a free gig, which is what happens, 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:24.080 and of course you do it because the more you play, 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:27.839 the better you get. Finally we started getting pubs and 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:30.240 clubs and coffee bars that we could do a couple 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:32.640 of sets and just acoustically, just the two of us. 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:35.240 We ended up in a place called the Pick Quick Club, 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:39.120 which was a more upmarket late night eating and drinking club, 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:41.800 a lot of actors, a lot of musicians. First time 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:45.200 I ever met Michael Caine was in there. Um Joan 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:47.760 Collins I became friends with back then and still am 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:50.960 so is that kind of a slightly glamorous place and 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:52.839 we would do two or three sets a night, sitting 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:56.600 on bar stools, singing folks songs, everly brothers songs, everything 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:59.719 we can think of and One night, a man in 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:01.560 a very shiny suit came up to us after the 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:03.960 show and asked if he could buy us a drink. 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:06.719 We said yes, and he explained that he was Norman 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:09.240 Newell and and our guy from E M I Records, 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:11.719 and he wanted to to come an audition for E 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:14.960 M I. So we went up to the em I Studios, 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:17.080 which is what became Abbey Road. They just changed the 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:21.400 name about a week later, recorded a bunch of songs 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:24.520 and they phoned us up and told us we we 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:27.440 they'd like to sign us so and they said, you 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:31.440 know that we'd um they picked normally picked some songs 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:33.159 out are the ones we've been doing the night he'd 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:35.400 seen us that he wanted us to record. At the time, 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:38.360 I think he was imagining us being kind of folky, 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.720 kind of Britain's answer to the folk boom in America 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:44.839 as it were, well, yeah, a little bit, a little 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:47.640 a little slicker than that, probably the Kingston duo as 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.760 it were, or Peter and Paul without Mary. But we 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:53.320 went we were going to be a folk duo and uh, 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:56.320 and we'd love to have been Dylan, but that's you know, 0:06:56.600 --> 0:07:01.440 that's an overweening ambition. So so that was that, and 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:03.960 then he said, look, if you know any any other 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:05.960 songs that you might like to bring to the table 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:07.560 other than the ones that I've already heard, you do, 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:10.640 feel free to bring them to this first session. And 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:13.000 that's where the song that we were going to talk 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:18.080 about comes in World Without Love. Now, in my understanding 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:23.560 through different interviews with different people, um that the United 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:25.920 States was the goal. It seemed for everybody like that 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:28.200 was the market like they were. You know, the Londoners 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:30.640 and Brits are very proud of being Brits, but boy, 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:32.320 they wanted to go sell records over there. Was that 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:34.280 true for you as well. Were not just selling records. 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:37.400 It was an overall huge ambition to go to America 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:41.239 and and we idolized America. I mean musically, of course 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:43.840 we did, when you think about it. The Beatles until 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:46.360 they started writing their own songs, which they turned out 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:50.080 to do rather well, but until that time they never 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:53.240 sang a British song. Everything was based It was a 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:56.040 tribute to American music, you know. And the same with us. 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:59.040 We were doing Everly Brothers American folks songs. We didn't 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:01.920 do any English songs at all. And and that was 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:05.640 also tied in with our huge admiration for America as 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:08.160 a whole. You know, we'd grown up after the war 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:11.880 in the fifties exactly, it was post war gloom and doom, 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:14.760 black and white, you know, everywhere, bomb sights all over 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:17.720 the place. We had rationaling till the nineteen fifty six, 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:20.480 and we could look across the Atlantic and it looked 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:22.760 to us like everything in America was shiny and new 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:25.680 and colorful, and they all had perfect teeth and big, 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:28.600 amazing cars, and you know, it was like, whoa, that's 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:32.640 the place and this incredible music. So one thing I 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:35.760 remember distinctly is that when um well with that lot 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:38.320 went to number one and we got the phone call, 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:41.840 one of the biggest aspects of that call was that 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:44.360 now we get to go. It was not only that 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:47.600 sheer number oneness of it. It was they cannot stop us. 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:50.280 Now we're going to America. You know, I had copies 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:52.400 of Downbeat with the jazz clubs I wanted to go 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:55.360 to already circled, had a poster of New York on 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:58.440 my wall, you know. So it was it was I 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:00.880 knew I was going, I just know how and when 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:05.040 now before we get to the song itself, How did 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:08.720 you meet McCartney? Well, you're you're the beneficial McCartney handing. 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:13.200 You are reject from the Lennon McCartney catalog. Lenna didn't 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:15.000 want to record. You'll tell us that story. But where 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:17.480 did you meet him? I met him because he had 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:21.440 met my sister and I was there out, um meet 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:24.960 your sister. U. They met because Jane at that time 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:28.520 was and still is a very successful actress in London 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:31.760 and well known. And we both actually started as child 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:35.640 actors um when I was eight and she was six. 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:39.199 We both got our first movie pots. You did your 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:43.640 first film, The Planter's Wife, playing the son of Clinic Colbert. Yes, 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:46.000 the shot that in the UK. Yes, it was period 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:47.840 when she moved to the UK and was working there. 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.400 My father was played by Jack Hawkins of you might 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:55.240 remember beautiful actor Stern military man Bridge on that required movies. 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:58.680 He was my father and called him much more exciting 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:02.320 played my mother and I got to kiss Coute with 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:07.400 great enthusiasm. Um, it was Pinewood. Yes, did several films. Yeah. 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:12.840 Was there ever a kind of a conflict for you 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:14.599 or anything where you thought, do I want to be 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:16.320 an actor. Do I want to be a musician? Why 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:19.600 did you then do one? Well? It's interesting, yes, I 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:23.720 mean I think what happened is that the acting, my acting, 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:26.240 the offers diminished and my ability to do them finished. 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:28.600 And I started to take school seriously. As I mentioned, 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:30.360 I was at Westminster, which was a school. It did 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:32.040 not give you time off to go and be in 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:35.160 a film. Jane, on the other hand, I was super 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:37.680 enthusiastic about it and extremely good at it and became 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:41.679 immediately successful. Quit school at fifteen. My tolerant parents he 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:44.800 had again going okay, and and became a full time actor, 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:47.520 which she still is and and does very well. And 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:51.880 and it was in that context as a celebrity actor 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:56.280 Movi saw beautiful person that she was invited to go 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:58.040 and see the Beatles when they first came down to 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:01.160 London by magazine who wanted her to write peace about 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:03.160 you know what was all the fuss about? What did 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:07.000 she write? Um? Was she favorable? She was extremely favorable. 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:09.720 I don't know if we've got a copy of the 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:12.559 actual piece, but I remember talking about it and saying 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:15.320 how great they were. And of course as the visiting 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:20.880 celeb she was taken backstage to meet them all afterwards, like, yes, 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:22.679 she was famous and she was a bit more well 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:25.479 done than they were. They were about to become immensely 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:27.640 more well known than anyone in the universe. But at 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:30.640 the time Jane was she was on television quite a 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:35.200 lot and that stuff. So she met them and liked them. 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:37.000 They liked her. One of them liked her in particular 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:39.960 and asked her out. So that's how it began. And 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:44.360 I how long were they together? Uh? Several years? Well, 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:46.440 because he ended up moving into our house. You know, 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:48.560 I don't know that part of the story. He lived 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:50.200 He lived in your house for about two years. You 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:53.400 shared a room with him? No, she had a floor 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:57.200 tune and the next door rooms. We had do separate bessos. Then, yes, 0:11:57.240 --> 0:11:59.280 we had about yes, although we've been thrilling if you 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:01.960 were the same, could be laying there at nights smoking 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:08.160 steaming training lyrics. This, Yeah, maybe I could have got 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:09.959 it right. Maybe should play this. He could have given 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:11.760 you a little pointers, a couple of words and one 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:15.760 McCarty and asher, I'd be rich exactly and then and 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:19.880 then so then he gives you the song what happened? 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:22.920 I'd heard the song you guys were recording. No, you 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:25.960 were you had made No. Here's what happened. Cut back 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:27.480 to what I was telling you, the story about Norman 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:31.320 Neil spots us in the club signs Us chooses some 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:36.960 songs from our existing repertoire sixty three and says Joan, 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:39.120 if there are any other good songs you want to do, 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:41.679 let me know. And the reason I kind of went, 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:45.400 maybe there is is because a few months earlier I 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:48.040 had heard this song well without Love. Paul was just 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:50.240 sing it in his room and I said, that's really good, 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:53.960 and and he'd explained to me that it was unfinished 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:56.840 because because John didn't like it, they weren't going to 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.360 record it. But what also is that he would actually 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:01.840 kind of laugh. The opening line he thought, please locked 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:04.400 me away was a ridiculous open to a song. So 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:07.480 apparently when Paul would try to sell John on the song, 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:10.280 he would get no further than that line, and John 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:12.280 would stop him and go, okay, I will lock your way. 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.080 The song is over. That's amazing. Then then nothing happened 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:17.520 until we got our record deal, and I went back 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.160 to Paul and said, look, this amazing thing has happened. 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:21.880 We are going to make a record. We've got a 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:24.600 studio date booked in a month or whatever it was, 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:27.480 and he's booked and musicians. We picked a few songs, 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:30.360 but I wondered, could we possibly have a go at 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:33.000 that world with our love song that that we I 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:36.120 liked so much? And he said yes, and he wrote 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:38.920 out the chords and the words for me on a 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:41.760 piece of paper which is safely locked and a fire 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:45.600 proof safe back. And that's when I did. As the 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:48.640 session date grew near, I did have to prevail upon 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:51.560 him to finish it. So finally I said, you know, 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:53.800 we really need a bridge. This is too short, you know, 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:56.840 even by pop standards, it's about a minute, and uh 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:01.960 so and so so he he finally took his guitar 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:05.200 and went into his bedroom for you know, of course, 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:08.920 an infuriatingly short like eight minutes or so, and came 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:12.160 out exactly, came out with the so I wait and 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:14.640 in a while I will see my true love smile, 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:17.160 which is the beautiful bridge of the song. And we 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:20.800 were done, and so we we recorded it a week later, 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:23.680 along with about four or five other songs. This was 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:25.480 not an album deal. This was a deal to see 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:28.480 if we could make a single, and and by the 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.400 end of the session all that folky plan was out 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:34.440 the window because well, with our Love sounded like a hit. 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:36.600 So that was no there's no question anyone's mind that 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:38.840 was going to be our first single, and it was 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:41.040 and it went to number one, first in England and 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:44.760 then all over Europe and finally America. Now, how long 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:48.160 do you ride the Peter and Gordon thing before you 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.280 transition into becoming a full time you know? That then 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:54.680 ends you stopped doing that when we we never broke 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:56.680 up as such. It's interesting we never had a big 0:14:56.680 --> 0:15:00.960 Everly Brothers level row or anything like that. We agilely drifted, 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.480 I guess in about sixty eight into doing other things. 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.360 I knew I wanted to produce records. Why the first 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:09.640 time I was ever in the recording studio, I went, 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:12.720 this is so cool. And when I saw what it produced. 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:15.680 It does that you could try out ideas, imagine arrangements 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:18.560 and sounds. To fact, you can have musicians much better 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:20.880 than yourself and tell them what to do. That that 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:23.560 was really something I share that passion with you. I 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:25.600 went to a recording studio a couple of times in 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:28.320 my left not often. I went to watch people record 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:30.720 and it was one of the most thrilling experiences of mine. Yeah, 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:32.160 but all of a sudden, now you're in the world 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:34.360 where you're helping other people get where they want to go. 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:37.120 You're a service to them. Yes, you're you're working for them. 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:39.240 What was that like for you? Well, there are two 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:42.080 completely different aspects of it. The production thing, as I say, 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:45.480 was a deliberate, unconscious ambition. I said, I wanted to 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:47.520 do this, and of course the thing was that in 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:50.000 order to prove whether or not you could produce the record, 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:52.560 you had to find somebody who wanted you to produce 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:55.160 them and me and a budget. You know, now it's 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:56.840 a lot different. Now if you want to be a 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:59.160 record producer, you can sit at your laptop and come 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:01.000 up with a groove and to beat and some music 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:03.520 and you know, go, look, this is what I can do, 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:05.960 and every will go great. You can do this record 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:08.960 for us. But that, of course didn't exist without a 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:11.160 studio with real people in it. There was no way. 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:13.720 How did you get in there? Um? I persuaded a 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:17.440 friend of mine UM called Paul Jones, and if you 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:19.760 remember him, he was the lead singer of Manfred Many, 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:23.080 great voice, you know that she was just to walk 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:26.040 into that brilliant singing and one of the best harmonica 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.920 players in the world. And he did me a huge favor. 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:32.360 He was going to make a solo album of He 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:34.280 watched me in the studio on a couple of Peter 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:36.680 and Gordon records and and said, you know, do you 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:38.960 want to produce some tracks with me? And I said yes. 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:42.480 So the first record I ever produced was one song, 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:44.760 a B G song called and the Sun Will Shine, 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:48.080 sung by Paul Jones. And what I did it's only 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:51.560 notable now and in many respects because I wanted today 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:55.320 no chances on getting a great rhythm section. Um, so 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:57.800 I have some friends to play on it, so that 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:00.240 that record has Nicky Hopkins on piano and if you 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:03.800 know Nicks and piano, Paul Samwell Smith on bass, who 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:06.200 was the bass player in the Yardbirds and went on 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:08.680 by the way to produce Carlie Simon's record and Cat 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:13.400 Stevens records, um, Jeff Beck on guitar, and Paul McCartney 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:18.399 on drums, so legend drums, crazy great drummer. And so 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:20.439 that was the rhythm section the song is only a 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:23.320 minor hit, but I got into the production business and 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:26.800 then so that was the first example of advising other people. 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:30.680 The second one was James Taylor, where I became his 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.760 manager only because I believe so strongly in him and 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:35.520 we didn't know who else we trusted to do it. 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:41.639 I found James, discovered him and show biz Vernacular where 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:46.280 the King Bees, featuring Danny Kuchma on lead guitar, accompanied 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:48.679 Peter and Gordon on a couple of tours. We were 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:51.800 assigned the backup band. Usually they were very good. Danny 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:54.640 and I became firm friends. I loved his playing. He's 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:56.800 a big Steve Cropper fan as I am, and on 0:17:57.280 --> 0:18:03.640 and and so uh. He and I became friends, remained 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:06.679 friends after the Peter and Gordon era was over. Danny 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.760 was then in a band called the Flying Machine with 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:13.120 his childhood friend James Taylor. They'd known each other since 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:15.879 they were ten or eleven years old and and remained 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:18.840 great over here to this day. Over here then I 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:23.320 think in North Carolina and Martha's vineyond, and so Danny 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:25.560 was in this Flying Machine band. Flying Machine was a 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:28.440 New York band, suffering all of assisted UDEs in New 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:32.080 York can possibly offer um. They were broke. Then their 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:35.000 record company made half a record and disappeared, and uh, 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:36.879 there were several of them. Was strung out on drugs, 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:40.240 including James, and it was all miserable. So band broke up. 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:43.040 James decided to go to London, mostly because I think 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:44.760 he had a girlfriend over there he thought he could 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:47.560 stay with. And Danny said, oh, if you're going to London, 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:49.920 I have an old friend who lives in London who 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:52.359 I used to play with. He's okay, here's his number, 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:54.840 So he gave me gave James my name and number. 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:59.199 So James, having come over to London, called me up 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:01.560 out of the blue, without any idea of what I 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:04.679 was up to at that time, and introduced himself as 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:07.679 Danny's friend. I invited him over to dinner. He played 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:09.879 me a little demo tape he'd made a few days before, 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:13.280 and I was completely stunned and blown away and amazed. 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:16.680 That would have been late sixties seven, I think, or 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:20.240 at least sixty eight, and and you know everything about him. 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:22.639 I couldn't believe I was hearing this him for the 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:25.320 first time, his guitar playing at the precision of a 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:29.040 classical musician, but the chords of a jazz musician, you know, 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:33.399 and this finger picking, beautiful style. His singing, you know, 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:36.760 he had. His voice was this sort of rich, folky 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:39.920 kind of American voice, but the phrasing was all Sam 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:42.600 Cook and Ray Charles. You know. It was a brilliant mixture. 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.639 And of course these incredible songs. This tape he played 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:47.960 me had something in the way she moves and something's 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:50.760 wrong and knocking around the zoo on that tape, picked 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:52.560 up my guitar, played me a couple of more songs, 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:55.720 and I we had this odd conversation, right and said, look, 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:58.600 it so happens. I've just got this job as head 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:00.879 of A and R for a new record Labe. You know, 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:03.400 I can sign people. Would you like a record deal? 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:05.200 And he kind of went, yes, I love one, and 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:07.120 that was it. And of course I had to explain 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:09.760 him whose label it was and and so on. So 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:13.440 within days of how often did they interact well within 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:16.760 with the band? Gotcha when in days of this conversation, 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:19.240 I brought him into the office to meet everybody. He 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:21.680 sat and he played a couple of songs for George 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.760 and Paul. As I recall and they shared my enthusiasm. 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:29.000 We signed him up and they intimidated to play for them. Yes, yes, 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:33.680 we Two interesting things actually in in the In the 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:37.160 lyrics to Fire and Rain, Um, there are a couple 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:42.119 of things that are often misinterpreted. Um. One is is 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:45.400 um flying machines in pieces on the ground. People think 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:48.399 it's about a plane crash. That's the band breaking up. 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:51.320 And the other is holy host of others standing around me. 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:55.040 That's the Beatles. Wow, that's so cool. So they were 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:57.359