WEBVTT - FDA Set to Clear Third Covid Shot for Immunocompromised 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Charle Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovk. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.799 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.680 plus technology, politics, economics, all partnising the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.159 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:20.000 analysts in more than one twenty countries. You can download 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.239 Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.200 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:27.760 pm Eastern Time on the Bloomberg Radio or watch us 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:31.159 on YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. So a lot of 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:34.680 headlines when it comes to COVID and the vaccine, as 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:37.040 there always are, Charlie of course talking about them. So 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:41.280 to Nancy Lions. We've got US educators backing vaccines. Australia 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:44.880 struggling to control outbreaks after months of lockdowns in its 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:48.960 main cities. Japan serious cases continuing to rise. We are 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:52.400 awaiting news from US regulators on getting a third job 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:55.280 for people with compromised immune systems. The f d A 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:59.760 expected to update authorizations on the inoculations from BioNTech and 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:01.800 it's partner fightser as well as madierna that could happen 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:05.199 as soon as today. Meantime, the top infectious disease doctor 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:08.279 in the US, top COVID voice really out of the government, 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:11.920 Dr Anthony Fauci, provided some clarity this morning on CBS 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:16.560 about who exactly should get that COVID booster. We don't 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:20.920 feel at this particular point that, apart from the immune compromise, 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:23.959 we don't feel we need to give boosters right now. 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:28.280 But importantly, we are following this in real time, literally 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:33.280 on a weekly and monthly basis. We're following cohorts of individuals, elderly, 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:37.640 younger individuals, people in nursing homes to determine if in 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:41.399 fact the level of protection is starting to attenuate, and 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:43.920 when it does get to a certain level, we will 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:47.800 be prepared to give boosters to those people I want 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:50.080 to bring in our gusta a great voice for us 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:53.760 throughout the pandemic. Dr Chris Byro is Professor of Epidemiology 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:56.360 and Public Health and Human Rights at Johns Hopkins University, 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:59.840 Bloomberg School of Public Health, supported by Michael R. Bloomberg 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.320 to Bloomberg, Gulp and Bloomberg Philanthropies. Dr Biro, also Senior 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:07.360 scientifical Liaison at the COVID Vaccine Prevention Network. He's with 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:10.040 us on this Thursday on the phone in New York City. 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:12.480 Dr Byron, Nice to have you back with us. How 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:15.880 are you, how's everything going well? Thank you, Carol. Good 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:18.880 to be with you. Um, well, I don't know that 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:21.440 many of us expected to be back here with over 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:25.480 a hundred thousand new infections today in the US, so 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:28.760 it's it's a challenging moment um. But you know, the 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:32.919 good news is that the emergency use authorizations really are 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:36.520 holding up against DELTA. They are providing robust protection against 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:40.160 hospitalization and death. But on the downside, we're just a 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:44.120 little over half of all Americans who are eligible fully immunized, 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:50.280 and that's too low. So her immunity not even close, No, 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:53.280 not even close. And uh, you know, we're we're in 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:57.600 a situation now where we actually have vaccine surplus. We're 0:02:57.639 --> 0:02:59.440 kind of the envy of the rest of the world. 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:03.720 You know, where where worldwide we're at something like you know, 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:06.440 about sixteen percent of the rest of the world has 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:10.160 been immunized. Many many places no access to vaccines or 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:13.720 no access to high efficacy vaccines. Uh, and we have 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:17.040 three really great vaccines, the J and J single dose 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.040 and a visor and MODERNA. So how do you feel, 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:24.000 you know, as we wait maybe some updates in terms 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:27.880 of a third shot for some people when it comes 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:30.760 to COVID, a booster shot, if you will. We're expecting 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:33.480 to hear, you know, maybe from the FDA today. What's 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:38.760 your thinking on that guidance in terms of that versus 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:42.960 prioritizing the world just getting a first shot into at 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:47.440 least everyone are as close to as many as possible. Yeah, yeah, 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:51.240 it's very important question. I think. The first thing to say, uh, 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:54.200 and of course Dr Faccy spoke to this today earlier 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:58.760 clip is that four people with immuno compromise the immune suppressed. 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:01.640 And these include folks, for example, who have had a 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:05.080 solid organ transplant like a kidney or liver transplant, and 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:07.560 who have to be on immune suppression so they don't 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:12.200 reject the organ, or people on steroids, people on cancer chemotherapy, 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:16.360 folks who really, as it turns out, did not have 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:20.560 as vigorous enough responses to the two dose regiments. So 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:23.599 for them, this is not really a booster it's really 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:27.880 more like completing full immunization, and it does seem that 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:31.440 those people really do need a third dose. Uh. There's 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:34.280 about between two and three million Americans who would fit 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:37.479 into that category. Uh. And of course we have plenty 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:40.640 of vaccine and we do expect the FDA today to 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:45.520 announce that their doses will be UM will be suggested 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:49.160 for the immune suppressed. That's different from the rest of us. 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:52.520 The questions for people with healthy immune systems and who 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:55.720 are eligible. So this is the twelve and older's um 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:59.520 really is, you know, is the immunity that we have 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:03.800 from the vaccines persisting And that's a question that's still ongoing. 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:07.240 Remember that everybody who is in these vaccine trials is 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:09.640 being followed for a full two years, so we're still 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:13.320 assessing the immunogenicity there. And what it looks like right 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:17.160 now is our problem is not among the immunized, and 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:21.080 it's not because vaccines are waning over time that that's 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:23.640 not what we're seeing. What we're seeing is, of course, 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:26.520 that too many people are not immunized at all, and 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:30.720 that's where the hospitalizations and deaths are happening. And the 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:33.840 challenge that you know, children under age twelve are still 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:37.400 not eligible the trial of both Fiser and Maderna and 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:40.080 children are under way and not going to have those 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:44.520 data probably for several months. So in the meantime they 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:49.280 remain vulnerable, and we are seeing, of course an increase 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:54.840 in hospitalizations in younger people because Americans over age sixty 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:58.440 five have done way better. Of Americans over age sixty 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:02.920 five are immunized. Know, a lot of seniors remember polio 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:06.039 and small talks. They're from earlier periods where we didn't 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:09.000 have this kind of vaccine hesitancy to the degree that 0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:12.000 we do now. Yeah, it's a really really good point, 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:13.800 and you're right when we break it down to demographics, 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:17.320 you see definitely some very different um patterns when it 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.560 comes to who's taking the vaccine who who isn't. Still 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:23.120 with us as Dr Chris barb were, Professor of Epidemiology 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:26.320 and Public Health and Human Rights at Johns Hopkins University, 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:28.320 Bloomberg School of Public Health, still with us on the 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:30.400 phone in New York City, Dr Barrow, I just want 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:32.640 to go back to what you said when we talk 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:37.480 about the UH those with weak immune systems, UH, the 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:42.000 immuno compromised UH. If you will, it is a relatively 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:47.400 small number, correct, that's right. It's it's uh between about 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:51.360 two and three of folks in the United States, so 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:54.440 that that's still a fairly large number of people, but 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:58.039 only about the most three of America. Okay, because I 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:00.719 just do wonder if you've had people coming up to you, 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:05.080 patients or colleagues or family members or friends saying, well, 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:09.360 wait a minute, I have diabetes, or I have asthma, 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:15.800 or I'm just getting over fighting cancer. Don't I qualify Well, 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:18.520 I think for for folks who have a provider, that's 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:21.880 really a question. Uh, that's on a case by case basis. 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:26.560 At this point, many of the underlying conditions like for example, 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:31.520 diabetes UM is a good example UM do also cause 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:35.320 immuno compromise. What we're also very concerned about is the 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:38.320 folks who are, for one reason or another on steroids 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:41.960 often or what we call autoimmune diseases, and that's diseases 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:48.040 like lupus, rheumatoid arthritis. Uh, those folks also will have compromised. 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:52.080 People living with HIV infection who are virally suppressed and 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:55.880 doing well on medication are often not immuno compromise. But 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:58.560 people who are living with HIV and who are incompletely 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:03.400 treated certainly would qualified UM and UH, And as I said, 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:07.200 these are less really being thought of as boosters and 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:10.320 are being thought of as a third dose that's necessary 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:13.440 for people who just really don't respond well enough to 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:15.920 one or two doses. And there's an easy test right 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:18.600 to figure out your immunity here and that can help 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:21.680 determine whether or not you need an additional vaccine. Is 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:25.960 that fair? That's absolutely right. So when you look at 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:28.600 out the headlines, I mean, I think it's safe to 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:31.080 say we'd all we're hoping that by this time we'd 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:36.400 be well behind or in front of COVID, not behind. 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:39.400 It just feels like now we are again behind. UM. 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:41.720 I don't know what's the trajectory, what's the timeline that 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:43.560 you look at that we can maybe get to a 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:46.959 place where we don't think so much about this this 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:50.880 virus and it's not so troubling. Yeah. Yeah, Well, we 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:54.040 have been in a kind of a race between the 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:57.880 virus and its new variants and the vaccines and our 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:02.480 immunization programs. For some I think two things have have 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:06.320 not gone in our favor. One is, first of all, UH, 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:12.440 that the vaccine rollout began to slow because of hesitancy UH, 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:16.160 and has you know, not been sufficient at Only about 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:20.920 of all Americans eligible fully immunized, so that has to increase, 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:25.640 and I think the the certainly the private sector mandates 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:29.320 from companies and employers, is likely to change that. The 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:32.840 second problem is, of course, that the virus continues to 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:37.560 mutate and generate these new variants and delta. While birologists 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:40.880 were not surprised by it, we all have been really 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:45.800 uh I think uh impressed by the infectiousness of this virus. 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:50.600 So the original Wuhan strain had a infectivity of about 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:53.840 two to three, meaning that for every person who was infected, 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:56.400 they were likely to infect two or three more people. 0:09:57.000 --> 0:09:59.800 This delta variant is in the five to nine range, 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:04.400 is much more infectious uh. And that is that is 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:08.360 really driving these surges. And of course you put together 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:13.040 low immunization coverage, the change in behavior with people ceasing 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:16.720 to social distance and not not wear masks, and the 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:19.640 infectiousness of this virus, and that is why we are 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:23.280 in the situation we're in. Looking ahead, we've got to 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:27.120 do better with immunization. There is an expectation, I think 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:30.120 that the f PA is going to fully approve the 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:34.600 MODERNA vaccine, sorry, the Visor vaccine first and then Moderna 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:37.560 And that's probably gonna happen sort of in the in 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:41.160 the three to six week range with Visor. That will 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:43.400 be important. There are a number of people who say 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:45.319 that they don't want to take a vaccine until it's 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:49.360 fully approved, and that's understandable. But once that is fully approved, 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:52.160 I think that will change. And that will also change 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:55.400 how many employers are willing to mandate one thing, to 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:59.439 mandate immunization with an emergency use authorization another if you 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:02.079 have a fully vaccine. Yeah, that certainly sounds like it 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:05.880 would do a lot to getting a lot more people vaccinated. 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:07.600 We're gonna talk about that a little bit later on. 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:10.160 Dr Buyer is so great to check in with you. 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:13.360 Dr Chris Buyer over at Johns Hopkins University, Bloomberg School 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:15.959 of Public Health. On the phone in New York City, 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:19.960 you're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:24.480 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Hey, this 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:27.240 popped up on our radar. As companies and CEOs are 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:30.280 grappling with getting workers and customers back to their businesses, 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:33.760 we're seeing leaders try more stick and less carrot, especially 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:35.760 as we see another uptick in cases caused by the 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:38.480 delta variants. So let's get the particulars on this. We've 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:41.000 got the reporter on the story, Bloomberg News Projects and 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:44.360 Investigations reporter Drake Bennett on the phone in New York City, 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:46.680 along with Bloomberg Business Week editor Joe Weber on the 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:49.680 remote access in Massachusetts. It does feel like Joel the 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:52.200 days of well, we'll give you a little bonus, we'll 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:54.640 do this, we'll do that, just if you take the vaccine. 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:57.920 Now it's like, just take the vaccine. Yeah, big, big shift. 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:01.319 And and that's what Drake ward for the story. Um, 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:04.040 biggest thing of all is just that it went from 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:07.560 sort of like employers trying to incent and even more 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:11.720 than that, even you know, society trying to encourage with 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:15.520 lot of tickets and you know, bonuses and baseball tickets 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:17.200 and whatever else you can throw at them, to like 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:21.640 no more, no more, Mr nice guys. Um, we're seeing 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:25.880 the carrot go away in favor of something more resembling 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:29.200 a stick. So so Drake walk us through what happened 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:33.079 and sort of the historical precedent for some of this well, 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:37.080 I think the uh the turning point really UH Well, 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:40.280 besides you guys point out the brother the delta variant 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:43.840 UM and the fact that uh, you are seeing vaccination 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:47.840 rates you have, you're seeing them kind of level off. UM. 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:50.560 But then you have this court decision, a federal court 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:55.560 decision in UH lawsuit brought by some students at Indian University, 0:12:55.760 --> 0:13:01.040 and I you had instituted a vaccine man which you 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:04.319 know some institutions were doing. You know, some hospital systems 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:06.199 were doing it, some universities were doing it, but a 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:10.200 lot of them weren't UM. But the federal judge upheld 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:14.839 UH India Universities UM mandate. And I think that really 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:18.960 that was sort of July nine, teams ish and since then, 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:21.760 along with the spread of delta, I think that's driven 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:25.280 the steady drumbeat of of a lot of big employers, 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:31.120 you know tech companies, Google, um, Facebook, you know Tyson's, 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:35.760 you know the big meat processor uh Amazon. In different ways, 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:39.120 they're all they're all saying, you know, if you if 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:40.400 you want to come back to the office, need to 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:43.400 get vaccinated UM. And if you're not gonna get vaccinated, 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:46.240 you know, you have to do all this testing, and 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:49.440 like you guys said, there's really been this move away 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:52.560 from we we want people to do this thing. You know. 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:56.120 There's a sign that some of the protesters outside one 0:13:56.160 --> 0:14:00.640 of the hospital headquarters were holding and that said, you know, vaccination, yeah, mandates. 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:04.079 No the ideas like we like vaccinations, we think they're good, 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:06.640 but who are we to like tell people what to do? 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:08.840 And now it's just sort of like all right, isn't it. 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:11.640 It's it's interesting though, And I just I just got 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:14.200 off with a doctor, just talking with the doctor, Dr 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:17.160 Chris byro Overt Johns Hopkins and just saying it'll call 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:19.240 maybe a long way once the FDA says it's not 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:22.480 just emergency use but full use, uh in terms of 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:25.680 getting more people to get vaccines. But he credited to 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:30.240 some extent companies kind of pushing it on workers to 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:32.760 upping up some of the vaccine numbers. That it's going 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.160 to be important for that to happen in order for 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:38.000 us to get you know, close to something like her immunity. 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:42.160 It's interesting, though, Drake, that vaccine mandates. It's not new, right, 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:46.320 We got vaccines as kids. We just did it right, right, Yeah, 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:48.680 I know, for you know, every state in the Union 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:53.360 has some kind of vaccination requirement for schools um and 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:55.640 you know, back during the small pox you know, the 0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:59.480 days of the small boxe uh, a lot of states did. 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:01.840 Mean it was interesting then as now. It was kind 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:07.200 of like this social engineering experiment where some states had mandates, 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:10.320 some states were vehemently anti mandate, and a lot of 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.000 other states were somewhere in between. And you know, one 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:14.800 of the legacies of that is you can sort of 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:17.400 see how effective these things are. The states that did 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:20.280 have vaccine mandates of one form another had a lot 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:25.600 lot less smallpox than the ones that that we're anti mandate. Well, 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:28.440 we'll stick with that smallpox thing because I think when 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:33.520 we when it was such a a problem on such 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:35.600 a large scale, and yet you know, we weren't as 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:39.400 interconnected as we are now. Obviously, what what did we 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:43.080 learn coming out of smallpox that has informed public health 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:47.080 policy since Well, one thing that came out of that 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:50.600 is is the Supreme Court case that is now being 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:53.320 used to uphold vaccine mandates when they go to court 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:58.080 um that there was a a Swedish born pastor and Cambridge, 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:02.040 Massachusetts who he actually had been vaccinated against smallpox back 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:05.360 in Sweden. Um and said he had a bad reaction 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:07.680 to the shot, so he didn't want to get a 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:10.040 new shot in Massachusetts. He didn't want his kids have 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:12.240 to get it, and so this case went all the 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:14.840 way to the Supreme Court and the Sprew Court. He said, 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:18.280 you know, yes, there are sort of issues around privacy 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:20.600 and self control here, but they're there are bigger issues 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:23.680 around the sort of health of the community, and this 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:26.640 idea that it's it's you know, people aren't doing this, 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:28.760 then there's kind of it defeats the purpose of the 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:32.600 whole endeavor. So that that's really been the kind of 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:36.040 legal context where that we're the current um sort of 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:38.920 battles have played out. Would it help if President Biden 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:41.200 came out and just said, all right, everyone, you gotta 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:42.960 get your vaccine, if there was some kind of federal 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:45.600 mandate that came down, and is that even possible? I 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:51.000 know other countries are certainly uh taking steps towards that. Well, 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:53.720 I mean legally, yes, that's the federal you know, the 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:56.240 Supreme Court has said that the federal government, you know, 0:16:57.320 --> 0:16:59.480 you could do that. You know, I don't think we're 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:02.280 gonna see it. I think there's not really the political 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:05.360 will for that sort of a sweeping measure. And but yeah, 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:09.840 as you pointed out, in France and Italy to varying degrees, 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:14.520 have basically what are national vaccine mandates, UM. And I 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:17.680 think what you've seen so far is vaccination rates haven't 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:21.879 gone up. But you have also seen, especially in France, UM, 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:28.240 these these big national protests. So I think, you know, UM, 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:30.760 in a way, you know it would I think you 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:34.800 would probably get more vaccinations here if if there was 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:37.440 kind of a bigger stick. I mean, I think there's 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:41.480 a polling seems to suggest that there are some people 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:44.800 who are real vaccine you know, holdouts, and then there's 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:47.480 a lot of people who are kind of squishier about 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:50.760 it UM. And so you would probably get some portion 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:53.919 of those people to to vaccinate if it became harder 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:57.440 to you know, live in society without it. I think, 0:17:57.520 --> 0:17:59.080 you know, the other the other thing to keep in 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:01.320 mind their Carol is and we're starting to see some 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:04.520 indications of this from from Biden is that you know, 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:08.760 he's going to put some pressure on the FDA, especially 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:11.520 in the coming weeks, to to get that full authorization 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:14.439 of the federal government, which you could think of that. 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:18.160 It's sort of like an interim step before anything resembling 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:22.000 like a federal level mandate, because UM, at least that way, 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:25.080 you've got something that is at the full blessing of 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:30.600 the government. Isn't just um an emergency youth authorization. Obviously 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:33.679 he's pushing hard on that, and we'll we'll see what 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:36.160 the FDA decides to do in the coming weeks. Yeah, exactly, 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:38.920 that's something to the doctor Dart two. With that, Johns 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:41.280 Hopkins said that that would be a big, big step forward, 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:43.440 no doubt about it. But I think about another story 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:45.280 that's out on Business Week where you've got you know, 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:48.679 restaurant owners having to police who's gotten the vaccine, and 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:52.639 it's really putting a lot of individuals in tough positions 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:55.760 at this point. Hey, great story, Drake, Thank you so much. 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:58.920 Drake Bennett. He is Projects and Investigations reporter at Bloomberg 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:01.399 Business Week with us on the phone in New York City, 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:03.159 and of course our thinks to Dell Webber, editor of 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:05.800 Bloomberg Business We check out the double issue that is 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:09.400 on newsstands right now on the Bloomberg terminal on always 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:14.160 at Bloomberg dot com This is Bloomberg Business Week with 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:18.639 Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:21.720 Radio and as our Bloomberg opinion columnist, Tara la Chappelle, 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:26.840 who covers the business of entertainment, telecandom, telecommunications and deals rights. 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:30.320 Even Disney profits are not safe from the delta variant, 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:33.520 she joins us on the phone in New Jersey. Um 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:36.560 Disney always an important one to watch. Uh. It's a 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:39.880 well known company. Investors like to see what this uh 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:42.560 one has to say about all of their moving parts. Tara, 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:44.320 what are you watching out for? Tell us a little 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:47.040 bit about your column today. Well, you know, I think 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:49.399 in the middle of this pandemic, Disney is almost a 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:52.840 travel bill weather in some ways. So you know, there 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:55.320 was this data point that we've all been kind of 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:58.160 waiting to see whether something would come out as far 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:01.960 as people canceling flight because that seems meaningful. That would 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:04.240 mark a change from just sort of a vague general 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:07.640 fear about the delta variants being worse than what we 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:11.160 were facing a few months ago, versus people actually acting 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:14.000 on it. And yesterday we had Southwest Airlines come out 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:17.240 and say in their profit warning to investors that people 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:20.520 are starting to cancel flights this month and that it's 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:23.280 because of the delta variant. And I think that's really 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:27.679 important because if people are hesitant about travel, Disney's biggest 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:31.200 theme park, Disney World in Orlando, Florida, most of their 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:34.679 guests travel from other states to get there, and so 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:37.200 if people are starting to become hesitant, that doesn't bode 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:40.080 well for what was looking like a pretty good recovery 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:43.000 in that business for Disney. And you're already starting to 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:46.680 see ANA assessments starting to come down, becoming a little 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:49.840 bit more pessimistic. We don't know how long it's gonna last. 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:52.199 Maybe this is a temporary thing, and I hope it is, 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:56.199 but right now we feel that there's something changed just 0:20:56.320 --> 0:20:59.120 the last few days. Yeah, it is. It is kind 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:02.520 of a fast movieing um as. I feel like so 0:21:02.600 --> 0:21:05.320 much of the virus has been right, Tara, where we 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:06.919 think we're on one course and all of a sudden 0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:09.160 something happens. And you write in your story that as 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:12.440 recently as May, after Disney is finally able to reopen 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:15.840 the two California theme parks, the average analyst estimate called 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:18.520 from more than twenty million of operating profit from parks, 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:22.840 experiences and consumer products for the latest quarter, but Alice 0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:26.160 now expect just forty one million from that unit. That's 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:29.800 a big move, that is, and that's that's for the 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:32.000 quarter that already closed, So that was a little bit 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:34.919 before Delta really became a threat. But I think what 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:38.120 it shows is that there's just a general uh less 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:42.000 optimism around this business. I think analysts are listening to 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:44.800 other earnings calls and hearing all these CEOs in different 0:21:44.840 --> 0:21:49.560 industries talk about infletion, talk about wage pressure, difficulty getting 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:53.200 their staff sacksinated, and you have all of that happening 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:55.840 in the backdrop of needing to spend more on COVID 0:21:55.880 --> 0:21:59.119 mitigation measures and now suddenly Delta. So I think, you know, 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:02.119 the last orders numbers, which we're going to hear about 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:06.719 tonight from Disney. Also Disney's commentary tonight about this current 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:09.160 quarter is going to be even more important, and you're 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:12.320 seeing those estimates come down as well. Um. I think 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:14.960 that it just shows that the business that was kind 0:22:15.000 --> 0:22:17.600 of at the bright spot and the last NAGE report, 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:19.920 the part you know, we finally felt like was starting 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:23.119 to get back to almost normal now that's going to 0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:24.919 be a big concern. I bet you're gonna have a 0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:27.920 lot of questions from analysts to CEO Bob Chapick tonight 0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:30.680 about that, right. And you just reminded us too, because 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:32.680 the cruise right there have a cruise business of course 0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:34.399