WEBVTT - Apple Benefits from Upgrade on Potential From AI, Headset 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:06.240 This is Bloomberg BusinessWeek Inside from the reporters and editors 0:00:06.240 --> 0:00:09.799 who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus gloom 0:00:09.880 --> 0:00:13.680 O Business Finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:19.000 Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:23.200 Apple shares surging today by more than three percent, the 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:26.720 stock's best day since May. This after an upgrade from 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:29.120 Bank of America, that bank noting that the upside from 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:34.080 augmented reality and virtual reality ieed vision pro is there, 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:37.200 they said. Other analys on Wall Street are anticipating modest 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:40.000 sales the device, we should note, which does cost Carol 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:43.640 thirty five hundred dollars, and Apple sets a start taking 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:45.440 orders for that headset tomorrow. 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:47.479 Good to note. Oh and one app that will not 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:49.840 be on the new headset is Netflix, the high profile 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:51.960 snub of the new tech. And then, of course, there's 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:54.360 the news that cross yesterday that Apple will sell versions 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:57.040 of its watches without a blood oxygen feature in the 0:00:57.120 --> 0:01:00.960 US following a legal setback in its patents with massa 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:02.480 ol A lot of yeah. 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:03.960 A lot of Apple headlines For this and more, We 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:07.200 go to Mark German, He's chief technology correspondent for Bloomberg News. 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:10.160 He joins us on zoom from Los Angeles. Mark, I 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:12.120 want to just start with the news here, just of 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:14.200 the stock move today. This is notable for a couple 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:16.320 of reasons. One, at the beginning of the year, we 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:18.319 talk to you a lot about a series of downgrades 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:21.840 that the company got. Now Bank America coming out and saying, hey, 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:23.960 we're actually changing our view on the stock as a 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:28.000 result of this augmented reality or virtual reality headset. What 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:28.679 did you make of this? 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:32.280 Well, I can tell you, like you said, it has 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:35.759 been an overwhelmingly busy week of Apple news, and that'll 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:38.480 continue over the next you know, three weeks or so. 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:42.160 In terms of the prior downgrades about the iPhone, you know, 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:44.479 we talked about that. Now the upgrades about the division 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:48.040 pro It's really interesting because I don't anticipate the vision 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:51.480 pro to ship in any quantity of significance or generate 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:54.160 any revenue of significance for probably the next five years. 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:57.639 So maybe they're seeing something I'm not seeing. I certainly 0:01:57.680 --> 0:02:00.320 think it's a promising category, but we are quite ways 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:03.320 away from it being a needle mover for Apple. It's 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:07.040 going to take quite a while before that happens, it's 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:10.760 going to take them releasing AR only glasses before that happens. Personally, 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:13.600 I'm extremely optimistic about the category, but there are just 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:16.160 realities for how much money it could bring in and 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:19.079 how many units they could sell. So that was quite 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:22.920 an interesting upgrade. There are reasons to be optimistic about Apple. 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:26.239 You know, Apple's really I think a dark horse contender 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:29.800 for artificial intelligence. I think that Apple is two years 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:32.680 behind the competition on this, But for some reason, I 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:35.480 just believe they're going to do a killer job on 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:38.160 weaving in AI into the iPhone sixteen in the fall. 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:41.000 So I think that has a lot of folks pretty 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:43.920 optimistic internally and has me pretty excited too for the 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:44.680 future of the product. 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:49.480 So AI a bigger mover in your view versus this headset, Oh. 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:52.040 Yeah, oh yeah, Oh my god. I think this headset 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:54.000 in terms of revenue moving for the company is going 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:55.880 to be a while. I think AI is where it's 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:58.000 at for Apple. They've been silent, they've been under a 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:00.120 rock on this, and they're going to appear in June 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:03.079 and they're going to make a pretty fantastic announcement related 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:05.600 to AI and integration into the iPhone and the iPad. 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:08.080 It's going to take you know, nine months for it 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:09.760 to hit the market. The new phones won't go and 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:12.920 sail to September. The new iOS eighteen won't be available 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:14.639 till September. But I think it's going to be a 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:16.800 really big deal for the company in terms of how 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:18.760 that's going to bring Apple revenue in directly, I think 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:20.639 people are going to buy more iPhones because of that. 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:22.119 It's going to be really excited. 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:25.320 Either soon or I will now wait for this upgrade. 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:29.040 This is really interesting, Mark, because Apple, you know, when 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:31.160 when we think about AI and Apple like the iPhone 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:34.720 and iOS do certain things right now that anticipate what 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:36.600 its users want, which I which I've noticed and I 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:38.760 find really interesting. For example, when I got off the 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:41.840 subway and I, you know, go to look for an app, 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:44.280 it immediately pulls up the Lift app because it knows 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:46.120 that I want a city bike because I do that 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:49.160 every day at that time. Mark, what other what are 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:52.480 the examples of AI being integrated into the phone now? 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:55.600 And well it's division please yeah, go ahead. 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:59.240 That's that's really basic, right them being able to predict 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:02.240 that you need the Lift app. What if your list 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:05.000 is already They're waiting for you when you land because 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:06.160 it already did it for you. 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:06.760 Right. 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:09.840 What if your web browser, instead of you needing to 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:12.240 read articles, it's like your new Samsung phone and can 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:15.240 translate articles for you. What if you're on the phone 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:18.159 with someone who speaks another language. Let's say you speak 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:21.320 English and they seek speak Spanish. You're talking into the 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:24.080 phone in English and they're hearing you in Spanish. They're 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:26.240 talking into the phone in Spanish and you hear them 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:26.800 in English. 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:27.200 Right. 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:29.760 These are the types of things that Samsung introduced earlier 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:31.160 this week, and these are the types of things I 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:35.119 expect the Apple to eventually get into as well, playlist creation 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:38.120 and Apple Music. Using AI, you need to make a 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:41.120 presentation and you plug in some of your data points, 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:42.960 you plug in what you want the presentation to be about, 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:45.680 and it can make the presentation for you. I think 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:48.200 those are the powerful AI tools that I'm talking about. 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:50.360 Take a look at what Samsung did this week. If 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:52.640 you're watching this and I think you have a little 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:54.679 bit of a blueprint of what Apple's looking. 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:58.760 At, that is, well, you know it's interesting too. It's 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:02.320 funny because we had the CEO the online languaging language 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:04.800 learning service yesterday and we talked to her about like 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:09.200 AIS it's gonna basically make it possible that people don't 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:11.599 necessarily have to learn a new language. They can just 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:15.120 use AI right in advanced technology to kind of just 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:18.400 communicate with people of a different who speak a different language. 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:19.599 And it's already happening. 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:22.320 Yeah, it could be a new era for for learning 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:24.719 and education. You know, I got to tell you, On 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:26.640 one hand, that sounds very exciting. On the other hand, 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:29.159 you know, that sounds very scary. 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:29.480 Right. 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:32.040 Imagine your kids growing up in an era where instead 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:35.320 of taking a second language, they don't have to because 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:37.800 they're not actually doing the learning themselves. I'm not sure 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:39.520 how good that's going to be for the brain and 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:42.120 the you know, the the educational development for kids in 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:44.840 the future. So you know, I'm gonna when I have kids, 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:47.320 will keep AI away from them maybe for a little bit. 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:49.360 That reminds me of all the tech CEOs for a 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:51.599 long time. We're like, yeah, my kid doesn't have a computer, 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:54.640 My kid doesn't have this interesting coming. 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:56.880 This is a whole new level, right, Like I would 0:05:56.920 --> 0:05:59.680 be so disappointed, maybe I would No, I would be 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:01.960 disap point. Let's say my kid has to do a 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:05.159 presentation or write an essay, uh, and they're not going 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:07.640 to do it themselves. They're gonna use AI or chut 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:10.440 GBT to write it for them. I think that's, you know, 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:14.360 disturbing in some sense. What is it going to mean 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:18.240 for teachers and grading papers and how things are taught? 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:21.720 Are no education institution's going to have to revamp homework? 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:22.520 Right? 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:26.000 I mean, I was just going to say that it's 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:30.640 striking to hear this from Mark not scary. I don't disagree, 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:31.800 and I think there were a lot There are a 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:34.400 lot of people who would agree with you. In your 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:37.680 career covering tech, which, even though you're a young man, 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:39.960 your career covering this has been quite long because you 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:43.440 were doing this as a teenager, we should doubt is 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:46.320 Uh is this sort of the most pivotal moment that 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:46.840 you've seen. 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:50.320 It's the second most pivotal moment I've seen. The most 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:55.080 pivotal was the iPhone, Right, the shift from pre iPhone 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:58.600 to post iPhone has been significant, And let me just 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:02.480 say this, the i phone created the whole idea of 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:07.239 mobile software platforms with sensors and advanced processors and such. 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:10.600 So this AI revolution that we're walking into right now 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:13.480 would not exist if it were not for the iPhone's 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:16.000 creation sixteen years ago. So I would have to put 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:17.920 the iPhone at number one in AI at number two, 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:21.880 just because AI doesn't exist without the iPhone, right, I mean, 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:24.400 you can't put the iPad in that category or VR. 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:26.000 It's really the iPhone then AI. 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:28.160 I understand that. But at the same time, you know, 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:30.920 we've always sort of adopted and accepted technology, I guess 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:33.400 save for something like Google Glass. But they're trying again 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:36.800 with all the head mounted stuff. But it does seem 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:40.080 like you have a sort of reticence around around the 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:41.880 way that AI could shape our lives. 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:42.960 Yeah. 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:45.760 I think there are really interesting and exciting use cases. 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:50.200 I think being able to get summaries of web articles. 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:52.520 I think being able to use generative AI to fill 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:54.920 in photos and help you with photo editing. I think 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:57.880 being able to take information that you provide and turn 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:00.840 that maybe into a keynote or a power point presentation 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:04.480 for you. Using AI to create music playlists. Those are 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:07.240 all really exciting use cases for AI. But when you 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:10.880 start using AI to talk on your behalf, I didn't 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:13.320 love the Samsung Future that was introduced earlier this week, 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:17.600 where you could have it change your tone based on 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:19.400 who you're talking to. Let' say I'm sending an email 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:22.520 to coworkers, right, or sending an email to my brother, 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:25.840 or doing a tweet and it knowing to portray a 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:28.160 different tone in any of those use cases. That's a 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:30.760 little scary. I don't want to be in a world 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.920 where people aren't being able to think for themselves. Right. 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:36.880 There's using AI to enhance the tools you're using today, 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:39.440 and then there's using AI to replace your brain and 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:42.520 your thinking. And I think that's when AI crosses the line. 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:46.720 And unfortunately, there's so much money to be earned and 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:49.720 so much to be won in the technology landscape by 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:54.040 these multi trillion dollar behemoths that I think they're unfortunately 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:57.320 going to have a very hard time towing that line. So, 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:00.800 you know, it's a little scary what's about to happen 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:01.600 over the next few years. 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:03.720 Yeah, And I do wonder, you know, I know regulators 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:06.240 are all looking at it, thinking about it and how 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:10.079 it kind of affects their specific you know, world and overview. 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:12.880 I think it was I just I think Gary Gary 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:15.160 Ginsler of the SEC made some some comments about AI 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:19.120 specifically this week in terms of financial instruments. I'm kind 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:21.559 of shocked. I think both Tim and I are about 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:23.440 kind of the warnings you're putting out there, but I 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:26.720 think obviously so relevant as we are kind of very 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.840 fast moving into this space. Mark, thank you, really appreciate it. 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:33.640 Have a good weekend. I'm feeling I'm feeling a little stressed. 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:35.240 I'm feeling a little stressed. Stressed. 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:39.920 Mark will save us? Okay, Yes, Mark German, Chief Technology 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:41.360 correspondent for Bloomberg News. 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:45.160 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:48.560 live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:52.640 Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app, 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:54.240 or watch us live on. 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:58.200 YouTube elon Musk SpaceX. It is set to launch the 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:01.480 first all of European commercial true to the International Space Station. 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:04.560 It's the landmark mission for a region yearning for a 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:07.840 better year of space exploration following a series of setbacks. 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:09.640 By the way, it would be the third commercial flight 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:11.880 to the space station, and if all goes as planned, 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:14.640 we'll kick off a two week research mission and it's 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:16.240 an interesting in terms of its crew. 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:18.160 Well, we're actually looking at a picture right now of 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:20.640 the Falcon nine rocket that is set to lift off 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:23.240 any minute at four forty nine pm from Kennedy Space 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:26.000 Center in Florida. We've got a great roundtable of space 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:28.960 experts who also both happen to have new books out 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:31.680 with us this afternoon. Lauren Grush's space reporter here at 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:33.960 Bloomberg News. She's also the author of The Six, The 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:37.120 Untold Story of America's first women Astronauts. She joins us 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:40.360 from our Austin, Texas bureau, and Kelly Wiener Smith is 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:43.000 back with us. She's adjunct professor in the Rice University 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:46.240 Biosciences Department, also the author of A City on Mars? 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:49.480 Can we Settle Space? Should we settle Space? And have 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:51.840 we really thought this through? She joins us on zoom 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:53.360 from Charlottesville, Virginia. 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:56.560 All right, so Lauren, let's start. Let's thank you to 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:58.839 both of you. Welcome, Welcome, Lauren. Let's start with you, though, 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:01.600 because you're watching this closely and are reporting it out 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:05.240 for Bloomberg. Top of mind is you wait this liftoff? 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:09.520 Well, you know it's I think what's top of mind? 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:12.120 For me is just how routine these kinds of launches 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:15.360 are becoming. This is the third mission for Axiom Space 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:20.160 as part of their partnership with SpaceX, and Axiom Space 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:23.040 has been conducting these missions to prepare for their own 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:27.079 commercial space station, which they are hoping to launch this decade. 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:29.600 So yeah, it's just you know, the fact that these 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:32.480 are becoming routine when just a few years ago, you 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:35.480 know the fact that SpaceX was launching people at all 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:37.080 was a novel thing. 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:40.760 Lauren, can you explain what it means that the mission 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:45.200 is actually operated by Axiom versus operated by a government 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:48.920 agency or operated by SpaceX for example, Right. 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:51.880 So, you know, SpaceX is operating the mission in terms 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:54.199 of you know, they're in charge of the Crew Dragon. 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:56.440 They're in charge of the Falcon nine that launches the 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:58.720 Crew Dragon of space. But it's really kind of that 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.320 Axiom is brokering this mission. You know, they're the ones 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:04.360 that go out and find the astronauts to launch to 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:06.880 the International Space Station. They make sure that they have 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:09.320 the agreements with NASA in place to be able to 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:13.320 use the International Space Station's resources, and they're also in 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:16.880 charge of coming up with the experiments that the astronauts 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:19.440 will do when they're on the International Space Station. So 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:22.040 they're kind of in charge of putting it all together, 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:26.000 but obviously SpaceX is in charge of, you know, making 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:27.559 sure that they get to space safely. 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:30.120 It's very different from like the sixties, right, and the 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:31.920 race to put a man on the Moon, when it 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:33.520 was all over the government, all the government. 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:35.440 It was a whole of government approach, right, it was 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:36.680 just NASA. 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:40.680 All in all in all in this mission, research mission, 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:41.560 what do we know about it? 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:46.800 So they'll be conducting over thirty research missions on board 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.880 in roughly two weeks. It's a pretty quick trip compared 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:52.200 to what you know, the NASA astronauts do when they 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:54.559 go to the space station. They usually stay for about 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:57.320 six months at a time. But it will give them 0:12:57.400 --> 0:13:01.079 a lot of opportunities to perform in the space environment 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:03.240 that they wouldn't be able to do otherwise. And then 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:05.600 they'll come home and splash down in the crew Dragon 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:06.160 when they're done. 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:08.280 Hey, Lauren Grush, we got to let you go because 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:10.720 your space reporter and you are supposed to be covering 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:12.920 this launch and it's t minus what less than four 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:13.559 minutes right now? 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:15.439 I think we have about four minutes ago. So I'm 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:17.760 going to run, but I'm glad to have joined you guys, 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:19.320 and I'll go cover this mission. 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:21.520 We always love it when you joined us. Lauren. She's 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:23.520 space reporter here at Bloomberg News, also the author of 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:26.200 The Sixth The Untold Story of America's first women Astronauts. 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:28.560 She joins us from our Austin, Texas bureau. Let's get 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:31.000 over to Kelly Wiener Smith, the author of A City 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:33.480 on Mars? Can we Settle Space? Should we settle Space? 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.000 And have we really thought this through? She joins us 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:37.960 on a zoom from charlotte Ville, Virginia. Good to have 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:40.160 you back with us, Kelly. So I want you to 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:42.680 build on what Lauren was talking about just now, and 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:46.640 the idea that this stuff has become so routine. So 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:49.280 that's kind of what sticks out to me too, is like, 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:51.600 you know, the first time this happened, it was a 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:55.400 really big deal. The first time SpaceX landed one of 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:58.560 its reusable boosters. In the second and third and fourth 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:01.439 and fifth times, those were pretty cool. That was news. 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:03.600 But now this stuff is us so routine, it's like 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:06.360 just another day in the life of a space explorer. 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:10.120 Yeah, it has become routine, and I'm super excited to 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:12.800 see us launching astronauts from the US again. So, you know, 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:15.800 we retired the Space Shuttle in twenty eleven, and then 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:18.000 for almost a decade there when we wanted to send 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:20.880 our astronauts to space, we have to pay for tickets 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:25.000 aboard the Russian Soya's craft. And so now it's exciting 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:27.920 to have SpaceX working on just about their tenth crew 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:31.240 launch to the International Space Station. And as you said, 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:33.680 it's become routine and it's exciting to be there again. 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:35.960 Well, you know, that's what's interesting to me. I was 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:38.400 thinking as we were talking with our reporter, when we're 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:40.640 talking with Lauren you know where, she said, it's become routine, 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:42.560 and I think, okay, that's kind of I think boring, 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.840 But I also think how cool that, you know, it's 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:48.560 you know, go back to July twenty first, nineteen sixty nine. 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:51.360 People got up, people were glued to their TV sets 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:53.560 to think, oh my god, there's a man on the 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:56.560 moon and my team knows it. My dad was involved 0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:58.400 with a lot of space work early on, so it 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:01.680 was just like a very big d the whole world watched. 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:04.000 But how cool that we are a part in our 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:09.360 civilization if you will, that they have become somewhat routine, 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:11.440 and I don't know, I think about where that could 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:13.760 possibly take us. And that's your book gets into it 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:16.320 about kind of living on another planet. I mean, how 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:19.240 do you think about the big you know, bigger picture 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:22.840 when it comes to space exploration here in twenty twenty four. 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:27.480 Yeah, well, so tying that question into this this point 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:29.960 that it's becoming routine, you know, so today the first 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:33.240 astronaut from Turkey is flying. And so as it becomes 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:35.560 more routine, we're getting a more diverse group of people 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:39.000 up into space and we learn more about how different cultures, 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:41.760 different bodies respond to the space environment. And we're going 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:44.440 to need that kind of information. And so Axiom does 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:48.440 commercial launches, so you can pay to send astronauts up 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:51.240 to the International Space Station and that's sort of changing 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:53.680 the criteria a little bit for going to space. So, 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.800 you know, NASA astronauts are like the finest specimens that 0:15:56.840 --> 0:16:00.000 are human species has to offer. And as you start 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.960 having more tourism, you get, you know, people who are 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:06.680 older than maybe the ideal we would imagine for sending 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:08.920 someone to space and you get a broader sense of 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:12.320 how bodies in different ages and different states start to respond. 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:14.720 And that kind of information is going to be important 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:18.320 if we're going to start setting up settlements or something 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:21.960 at some point. So as this stuff comes becomes routine, 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:23.960 we learn more. And also, you know, as the equipment 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:26.240 goes up there, more often we learn what you know, 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:27.120 how often it fails. 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:30.240 Hey, just to remind everybody, we are awaiting Elon Musk. 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:32.840 SpaceX set to launch the first all European commercial crew 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:35.480 to the International Space Station. We are looking at what 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:37.240 about forty three seconds to go. 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.160 Yeah, we're looking at pictures right now of that launch 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:43.760 that is set to happen just about forty seconds. It's 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:46.400 a landmark mission for a region yearning for a better 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:49.560 year of space exploration following a series of setbacks. This 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:53.360 Falcon nine rocket is set to lift often about thirty 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:57.440 seconds from NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida. This launch 0:16:57.440 --> 0:16:59.920 originally planned for Wednesday, but was delayed to day to 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.960 have SpaceX more time to do analysis and checkouts of 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:06.119 the rocket encapsule. That is according to the company, and 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:06.600 we did. 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:09.800 Mention an international flight. We've got eleven ten seconds to 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:13.439 go here, So we're watching whether or not we see it. 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:16.800 Looks like everything is kicking in, and let's listen in 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:22.160 one big mission hits and full powers, and let's go as. 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:34.160 Falco NI takes that LAS. 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:35.520 Further beyond, opening the door for more to follow. 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:40.240 All Right, everybody, you're listening as that Falcon nine rocket 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:43.160 SpaceX Falcon nine rocket did take off on time four 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:45.480 forty nine. Talk about being on time from Kennedy Space 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:48.800 Center in Florida. It is the first you all European 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:53.719 commercial crew to the International Space Station. And you're talking 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:57.520 about a NASA astronaut, an Italian co pilot. You've got 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:01.000 a couple of mission specialists, one from Turkey, one from Sweden. 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:05.320 So we're talking about two week research mission as well. 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:07.840 So big deal. Yes, it's become routine, but I got 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:09.280 to tell you, every time I see it and they 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:11.000 take off and they go into space, I kind of 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:11.560 get chills. 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:14.639 Yeah, it is pretty spectacular. We're seeing images of the 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:17.679 rocket taking off about exactly one minute at this point 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:22.720 into the launch sequence. Commanding Thursday's flight is Michael Lopez Allegria, 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:25.560 who led the AX one mission back in twenty twenty two. 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:29.680 That was Axiom's first mission to the ISS pilot Walters 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:32.800 via Day from the Italian Air Force and mission specialist 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:36.880 Marcus want of Sweden, as well as Alper Gazvaci of Turkey, 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:39.320 and they're going to participate in that two week mission. 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:42.200 Remember this was supposed to happen yesterday, so a little 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:44.320 bit of a delay here, but nonetheless on time four 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:47.320 to forty nine, that Falcon nine rocket setting off from 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.520 Kennedy Space Center in Florida, home to so many space missions. 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.880 Really the history if you think about US space work, 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:57.840 that is where is really kind of such a key point, 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:01.040 and so whenever you see it, it just really takes 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:03.560 you back throughout the history of what over fifty years 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:08.040 or so that the US has been involved. I should 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:10.200 say the pilot, I believe it, or the NASA astronaut 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:14.560 he is sixty five, holds dual US Spanish citizenship, a 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:17.960 veteran of five previous space flights and ten spacewalks. 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:21.119 We should note some other context here that Thursday's launch 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:23.679 comes as europe space industry has struggled to get off 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:26.639 the ground due to delays. We should know too that 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.400 the rocket which is four years behind schedule, is expected 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:32.840 to blast off this summer. That's the Arian six from Europe. 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:34.600 Will the Vegas Sea Rocket is set to lift off 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:36.639 during the fourth quarter after a mission failure at the 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:37.680 end of twenty twenty two. 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:39.720 All right, so let's go back to Kelly Wienersmith, who's 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:42.679 been watching with us as well or listening along, adjunct 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:46.240 professor in the Rice University Biosciences Department Department. We've talked 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:49.119 with her about her book that was out recently, A 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:51.720 City on Mars? Can we Settle Space? Should we settle Space? 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:53.840 And have we really thought this through? How do you 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:58.320 what do you teach your students today who are probably 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:00.560 kind of, oh, yeah, there's another thing that's flying up 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:03.280 in space, like they too have kind of got used 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:05.359 to it. It's a very different era. But what is 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:07.760 it that you want to kind of relay to them 0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:10.240 or teach them about space exploration. 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:14.480 Well, I'd like them to be excited about how international 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:18.120 this activity is. You know, you have four different countries 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:20.920 from Europe represented on this one flight, and there's even 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:24.440 more countries represented up at the International Space Station. And additionally, 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:26.399 you know, the more times we go up and the 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:29.000 more experience we get, the better we get at space, 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:31.760 and the better that helps us with various exploration stuff. 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:33.840 And you know, we're we're working our way back to 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:35.320 the Moon, which is exciting as well. 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:37.600 We should know to continue to follow the launch here. 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:41.119 The Falcon nine first and second stages are separating, and 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:43.680 we just saw an image of the crew actually clapping 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:48.040 as that did occur. Hey, Kelly, it's always like a yeah, yeah, 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:49.920 it is. Well, talk to us, talk to us a 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:52.520 little bit about the process here, Kelly, And it's really 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:54.119 what we should be listening for and what should we 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:56.280 should be watching for as this crew makes its way 0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:57.040 to the ISS. 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:02.040 Well, I'm not really a launch experts and so I'm 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:03.840 not really sure what we should be looking for at 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:06.200 this point. I'm more about space settlements. 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:08.119 Well, and one thing I will want to say, what's 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:10.320 interesting and I you know, I was telling these guys 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:12.320 my dad was involved in early on. You know, the 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:15.040 idea that these rockets go back down to Earth, right, 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:18.080 that the return to Earth is just kind of fascinating 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:20.240 because that's not how it used to be. You lost 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:22.640 a rocket that would send something into space, So it's 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:25.960 such a different you know, if you think about how 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:29.399 it has evolved is just kind of mind blow I 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:31.119 think about I don't think it was in my dad's 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:33.440 error because he's passed away, but it's just kind of 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:35.159 wild that we have progressed to that point that we 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:36.480 can reuse these rockets. 0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:39.240 Well, it's something you know, we should. We'll go ahead, Kelly. 0:21:40.119 --> 0:21:42.600 The Shuttle was supposed to be reusable but ended up 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:45.080 being so expensive to reuse it that it just didn't 0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:47.280 become a viable way to get stuff to space. And 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:50.040 the fact that SpaceX has not only made things reusable, 0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:53.440 but you know, made reusing these things so cheap, has 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:55.040 really lowered the cost of going to space. 0:21:55.080 --> 0:21:56.479 Okay, so I'm glad he brought that up, because that's 0:21:56.480 --> 0:21:58.280 exactly where I was go How much I was going 0:21:58.280 --> 0:21:59.960 to go. How much credit is due to Elon Muskin 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:03.720 SpaceX for revolutionizing the way that these things can be reused. 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:06.399 You know, I think a lot I've heard a lot 0:22:06.440 --> 0:22:08.720 of people complain that, you know, must gets government money, 0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:10.320 and so I don't know why it's so exciting, like 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:12.399 we did this with the Space Shuttle, but you know, 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:14.959 lots of companies get government money, but no one has 0:22:15.000 --> 0:22:17.320 been able to drop the cost the way SpaceX has 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:20.000 been able to drop the cost, and so I remain 0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:20.800 very impressed. 0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:22.960 So Kelly, when you think about kind of where we 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:25.240 should go with this, I mean, all of the NASA 0:22:25.320 --> 0:22:27.359 work and lead up to getting and putting a man 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:29.639 on the moon back in the nineteen sixties, you know, 0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:33.320 led to some innovation, some development. You know, a lot 0:22:33.359 --> 0:22:35.840 of investment went in that. We talk about it often 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:38.640 today that there isn't enough investment maybe in this world 0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:42.480 or we're shortsighted minus maybe an elon Musk and some others. 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:44.040 So when you think about it, I think about your 0:22:44.040 --> 0:22:47.320 book seat down Mars, like, why is it so important 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:49.280 or why is it not? Like what's your view on 0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:52.399 that in terms of investing in this and what it 0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:55.240 brings to a nation or to a world, to citizens 0:22:55.240 --> 0:22:56.160 of the world. 0:22:57.280 --> 0:22:59.760 Well, investing in space has lots of benefits back here 0:22:59.760 --> 0:23:02.040 on Earth, as you know. So for example, if you 0:23:02.119 --> 0:23:05.280 study Venus, you can learn about what climate change can 0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:06.879 do to a planet, and that gives us some lessons 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:10.200 that are helpful back here on Earth. So exploration can 0:23:10.240 --> 0:23:12.480 teach us not just about space, but you know about 0:23:12.520 --> 0:23:15.560 Earth as well. We get experience working together on the 0:23:15.600 --> 0:23:18.040 International Space Station. I don't think that's going to solve 0:23:18.080 --> 0:23:20.399 a lot of our geopolitical problems, but it's nice to 0:23:20.480 --> 0:23:24.400 have some areas where we're connecting with other people. And 0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:27.320 you know, I just think humans, we love to learn 0:23:27.320 --> 0:23:29.359 about our environment in space just sort of helps us 0:23:29.440 --> 0:23:31.000 learn about the world around us. 0:23:31.359 --> 0:23:33.760 You're also, though, I've taken sort of a in the 0:23:33.880 --> 0:23:35.879 in the book, and we spoke about this back in 0:23:35.960 --> 0:23:39.159 October November when we had you on the program, a 0:23:39.200 --> 0:23:42.520 critical look at the way that we're thinking about planets 0:23:42.840 --> 0:23:46.520 and settling planets outside of Earth. Of course, talk to 0:23:46.640 --> 0:23:48.720 us a little bit about you know why you think, 0:23:48.720 --> 0:23:51.200 and it's in the book's title, we haven't necessarily thought 0:23:51.240 --> 0:23:53.680 the idea through that we should be settling other planets. 0:23:55.000 --> 0:23:56.520 Well, you know, there's only so much that you can 0:23:56.600 --> 0:23:59.359 learn on the International Space Station about how human bodies 0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:01.920 respond to space or protected from a lot of space 0:24:02.000 --> 0:24:05.040 radiation by the magnetosphere if you're on the International Space Station, 0:24:05.119 --> 0:24:07.679 for example, So we don't really know how space radiation 0:24:07.800 --> 0:24:11.000 impacts human bodies. And so you know, i'd say we've 0:24:11.000 --> 0:24:12.600 done a lot of cool things in space, and we 0:24:12.680 --> 0:24:17.080 have a really exciting low Earth orbit economy. But in 0:24:17.119 --> 0:24:18.760 terms of whether or not we know enough to be 0:24:18.800 --> 0:24:21.840 having babies and growing families on a place like the 0:24:21.840 --> 0:24:24.080 Moon or Mars, we're just we're really not there yet. 0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:27.000 Yeah, it's kind of interesting, right. Hey, Just to re 0:24:27.000 --> 0:24:30.760 remind everybody if you're just tuning in here, SpaceX rocket 0:24:30.800 --> 0:24:33.520 blasting off today, carrying the first all European commercial crew 0:24:33.520 --> 0:24:36.280 to the International Space Station Landmark mission. As we've been 0:24:36.320 --> 0:24:39.000 talking about for a region, looking to mount a comeback 0:24:39.040 --> 0:24:41.439 following a series of setbacks, it's been a little bit 0:24:41.440 --> 0:24:43.440 of a rough ride over the last year or so. 0:24:43.720 --> 0:24:47.480 SpaceX's Falcon nine rocket, topped with its crew dragon capsule, 0:24:47.680 --> 0:24:50.600 lifted off at four forty nine pm Local time on 0:24:50.720 --> 0:24:54.240 time from NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida. This is 0:24:54.280 --> 0:24:56.879 according also to a webcast of the mission, but we 0:24:56.960 --> 0:24:59.440 watched it listen in a little bit sick. 0:25:00.920 --> 0:25:04.879 We did stick that landing. Falcon nine has landed once again. 0:25:04.960 --> 0:25:05.920 But turning our. 0:25:05.880 --> 0:25:08.480 Attention back to the crew, as you see there, our 0:25:08.520 --> 0:25:13.400 next event is second engine cutoff or SICCO as it's 0:25:13.440 --> 0:25:16.400 referred to there at the bottom of your screen. Second 0:25:16.440 --> 0:25:19.359 stage we'll coast for a few minutes until Dragon is 0:25:19.480 --> 0:25:22.400 commanded to separate a lot of just the energy. Here 0:25:22.440 --> 0:25:25.879 as BaseX mission control is buzzing, you can hear commentary 0:25:25.920 --> 0:25:30.000 behind us. Right now, the crew is experiencing about three g's, 0:25:30.680 --> 0:25:34.720 so pretty much a roller coaster for those thrill seekers 0:25:34.760 --> 0:25:35.240 out there. 0:25:36.920 --> 0:25:40.320 All right, everybody, so you are listening to NASA's Kennedy 0:25:40.400 --> 0:25:44.159 Space Center obviously telling us exactly what is happening to 0:25:44.280 --> 0:25:50.159 the crew aboard the rocket there the. 0:25:49.400 --> 0:25:51.760 Falcon nine Dragon, Yeah, should say Falcon nine. 0:25:51.760 --> 0:25:54.240 Excuse me, And just keep in mind that this crew 0:25:54.320 --> 0:25:56.520 expected to dock at the Orbiting Research Lab some two 0:25:56.560 --> 0:25:59.719 hundred and fifty miles above Earth and roughly around five 0:25:59.720 --> 0:26:03.600 fifteen am New York time on January twentieth, so we've 0:26:03.600 --> 0:26:05.199 got to give it a little bit of time to 0:26:05.280 --> 0:26:06.160 ultimately get there. 0:26:06.240 --> 0:26:08.480 Yeah, this crew is expected to dock at the Orbiting 0:26:08.520 --> 0:26:11.720 Research Laboratory. They are in the Crew Dragon capsule from 0:26:11.720 --> 0:26:14.960 SpaceX right now, some two hundred and fifty miles above Earth. 0:26:15.280 --> 0:26:17.720 That's set to be happened at roughly five point fifteen 0:26:17.880 --> 0:26:21.760 am on January twentieth, So there is some time they're 0:26:21.800 --> 0:26:25.440 going to be spending getting to the ISS. 0:26:24.760 --> 0:26:26.800 A couple of movies, some peanuts that kind. No, that 0:26:26.840 --> 0:26:30.120 doesn't happen. Kelly Wiener Smith is here with us, of course, 0:26:30.160 --> 0:26:33.959 the adject professor in the Rice University of bio Sciences Department, 0:26:34.200 --> 0:26:36.200 her book that we've talked about City on Mars. Just 0:26:36.200 --> 0:26:40.040 got about forty five seconds or so. Final thoughts here 0:26:40.080 --> 0:26:42.840 as another mission goes up. YEP, routine, but it's still 0:26:43.080 --> 0:26:43.840 pretty amazing. 0:26:45.040 --> 0:26:48.120 Yeah, still totally amazing and exciting to see astronauts coming 0:26:48.119 --> 0:26:51.240 from US soil Way to go, SpaceX and Axiom in NASA. 0:26:51.320 --> 0:26:54.240 Hey, one last question, your students. Are they interested in 0:26:54.320 --> 0:26:58.679 being involved in space development and working either with the 0:26:58.680 --> 0:27:01.840 government or private companies like a SpaceX Again just about 0:27:01.840 --> 0:27:02.679 twenty seconds or so. 0:27:03.720 --> 0:27:06.000 Yeah, they are, and I think they're interested in seeing 0:27:06.000 --> 0:27:07.879 it done in a way that also protects the Earth 0:27:07.960 --> 0:27:11.160 and you know, takes into account diverse perspectives. It's very 0:27:11.160 --> 0:27:12.160 exciting working with students. 0:27:12.200 --> 0:27:14.640 They've got a good perspective, very very cool stuff. Hey, 0:27:14.680 --> 0:27:17.080 really appreciate you joining us this afternoon. Kelly Wiener Smith, 0:27:17.080 --> 0:27:20.840 adject professor in the Rice University Biosciences Department, also the 0:27:20.880 --> 0:27:23.359 author of A City on Mars can we settle space? 0:27:23.520 --> 0:27:26.520 Should we settle space? And have we really thought this through? 0:27:26.600 --> 0:27:28.840 Joining us on zoom from Charlottesville, Virginia. 0:27:28.880 --> 0:27:31.920 All right, off and running that SpaceX rocket blasted off, 0:27:32.359 --> 0:27:35.719 and we've got an international are all actually all European 0:27:35.720 --> 0:27:38.320 commercial crew to the International Space Station. So we'll continue 0:27:38.359 --> 0:27:40.440 to monitor it. Everybody, This is Bloomberg. 0:27:42.040 --> 0:27:45.600 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:27:45.640 --> 0:27:49.760 live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, 0:27:49.840 --> 0:27:53.159 the Bloomberg Business App, and YouTube. You can also listen 0:27:53.240 --> 0:27:56.359 live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. 0:27:56.800 --> 0:28:02.480 Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty Yummy, yummy. 0:28:02.200 --> 0:28:11.000 Yummy, Fine, all right, yummy, yummy yummy. We're talking gummy 0:28:11.000 --> 0:28:14.199 gummy gummies from This is a great story, man. We 0:28:14.280 --> 0:28:18.000 have talked about this a lot. On this Thursday, I 0:28:18.040 --> 0:28:19.040 realized I can't get. 0:28:19.040 --> 0:28:20.640 Enough of this story. Nobody can get enough of this story. 0:28:20.680 --> 0:28:22.280 It turns out everybody loves gummy bears. 0:28:22.320 --> 0:28:24.640 Oh my god, it's a real left candy factory out 0:28:24.680 --> 0:28:28.040 of Charlie the Chocolate Factory. It's not this is real. 0:28:28.280 --> 0:28:31.880 This is like this is like a you know, sanitized 0:28:32.119 --> 0:28:35.560 like simple. There's no Willy Wonka there. You're not going 0:28:35.640 --> 0:28:39.040 to fall into a river. Everything is, you know, very 0:28:39.120 --> 0:28:41.800 very everywhere. This we're talking about the Harry Boat Plant 0:28:41.800 --> 0:28:44.320 and Pleasant Prairie, Wisconsin. It's the company's first one in 0:28:44.360 --> 0:28:48.400 North America. It's a cavernous facility that's mostly colorless and 0:28:48.480 --> 0:28:53.680 meticulously clean, staffed largely by robots. How do we know 0:28:53.720 --> 0:28:56.880 all of this? Well? In her latest for Bloomberg Business Week, 0:28:56.880 --> 0:28:59.239 Tina Shanker got to spend some time inside the new 0:28:59.280 --> 0:29:03.120 Harry Boat Plant in Wisconsin. A pretty sweet assignment, I 0:29:03.160 --> 0:29:06.800 would say. Dina Shanker is consumer reporter for Bloomberg. Nars 0:29:06.880 --> 0:29:08.960 is with us on Zoom from New York City. Also 0:29:08.960 --> 0:29:11.480 here is Laura Bliss, who edited this story. Laura is 0:29:11.520 --> 0:29:14.760 City Lab editor. She joins us from San Francisco. Dina, 0:29:14.800 --> 0:29:16.800 First off, how many gummy bears did you eat in 0:29:16.840 --> 0:29:17.959 the production of this story? 0:29:19.000 --> 0:29:21.280 Do we count the ones I was eating right before 0:29:21.320 --> 0:29:22.200 I came on camera? 0:29:22.520 --> 0:29:29.960 Yes, all flavors, all the flavors. I mean, I am 0:29:30.120 --> 0:29:34.320 on the gummy bears, I am on the twin snakes, 0:29:34.360 --> 0:29:35.360 which I didn't even. 0:29:35.280 --> 0:29:37.520 Know about twin snakes until before the story. 0:29:37.640 --> 0:29:42.400 They're so good, the Harribo peaches, I mean everything, They're. 0:29:42.240 --> 0:29:43.800 All just they're really good. 0:29:43.840 --> 0:29:45.960 And they don't all taste the same, which you might 0:29:46.040 --> 0:29:48.640 expect that the just the shapes are different, but the 0:29:48.640 --> 0:29:49.520 flavors are the same. 0:29:49.560 --> 0:29:52.120 They're not. They are all different and they are all delicious. 0:29:52.360 --> 0:29:54.920 So, Dina, a lot of our viewers and listeners know 0:29:55.040 --> 0:29:57.640 you from the I don't want to call it fake 0:29:57.720 --> 0:30:02.560 meat beat, but the not quite meat plant based meat beat, 0:30:02.960 --> 0:30:04.520 Like that is what you do. The factories that you 0:30:04.560 --> 0:30:06.920 cover are the ones that produce the impossible and beyond, 0:30:07.480 --> 0:30:08.880 and you've been doing that for years. How did you 0:30:08.920 --> 0:30:11.200 end up finding yourself in the gummy bear fact? 0:30:11.400 --> 0:30:13.920 What was the pitch to the editors and the editorial 0:30:14.080 --> 0:30:16.840 Dude Like, hey guys, I kind of like gummies. No, 0:30:17.000 --> 0:30:17.800 what was the pitch? 0:30:18.480 --> 0:30:20.600 I have to say this actually this story. 0:30:20.840 --> 0:30:23.800 I'm so lucky this story came to me that they 0:30:23.840 --> 0:30:26.840 asked me to write it because they had a photographer 0:30:26.880 --> 0:30:30.400 who was obsessed with hairbo and really wanted to do 0:30:30.480 --> 0:30:31.240 this story. 0:30:31.440 --> 0:30:32.880 And they were like, Dina, would you do it? And 0:30:32.920 --> 0:30:36.239 I was like, obviously, I will do this. Thank you 0:30:36.360 --> 0:30:36.880 so much. 0:30:37.280 --> 0:30:40.640 I will be there tomorrow, thank you, And I'm going 0:30:40.720 --> 0:30:41.880 to bring some home, all. 0:30:41.840 --> 0:30:45.120 Right, Yeah exactly. Lord, come on in. You edited the 0:30:45.200 --> 0:30:50.240 story your City City Lab editor here at Bloomberg size 0:30:50.240 --> 0:30:52.280 and scope. This story has it all. 0:30:54.600 --> 0:30:56.920 Yeah, this was so much fun to work on with 0:30:57.000 --> 0:31:00.480 Dina and the photographer who just produced these incredible photos 0:31:00.480 --> 0:31:02.880 and videos and likes. As you guys were talking about, 0:31:02.920 --> 0:31:05.440 you know, the photos kind of give you a sense 0:31:05.440 --> 0:31:08.040 of its place. It's just like full of rainbow colored fun. 0:31:08.280 --> 0:31:11.440 But that's actually not what Dina found it to be 0:31:11.600 --> 0:31:15.960 at all. It was actually this like pretty, you know, serious, 0:31:16.000 --> 0:31:20.120 like totem to like Germanic manufacturing. And I don't know, 0:31:20.120 --> 0:31:22.080 I would love to hear Diana talk more about that. 0:31:23.400 --> 0:31:24.640 You know, did that surprise you? 0:31:24.680 --> 0:31:24.760 Like? 0:31:25.240 --> 0:31:28.200 Learning more about how this company actually works and makes 0:31:28.240 --> 0:31:29.720 these beloved candies? 0:31:31.280 --> 0:31:31.400 It? 0:31:31.480 --> 0:31:34.280 You know, it did. I've been to so many food 0:31:34.320 --> 0:31:35.400 manufacturing plants. 0:31:35.440 --> 0:31:37.240 I mean, I've been to the fake meat plants Shore, 0:31:37.320 --> 0:31:38.760 but I've been to real meat plants. 0:31:38.800 --> 0:31:43.320 I've been to you know, fish and pet food and so. 0:31:43.360 --> 0:31:45.800 Many kinds of food plants. This was by far the 0:31:45.840 --> 0:31:49.800 cleanest one I have ever been in. It was so orderly, 0:31:50.320 --> 0:31:55.160 everything was running like exactly as it was intended to. 0:31:56.240 --> 0:32:00.000 There was just and they were so happy. Everybody was 0:32:00.120 --> 0:32:00.720 very happy, but. 0:32:00.640 --> 0:32:02.760 They were very serious about the work at hand. 0:32:03.600 --> 0:32:06.360 They were there to make the best gummies, and they 0:32:06.680 --> 0:32:08.600 know how to make the best gummies because they've been 0:32:08.600 --> 0:32:11.280 doing it for so long and they really weren't interested 0:32:11.320 --> 0:32:13.800 in trying to do anything other than make the world's 0:32:13.800 --> 0:32:14.560 best gumpies. 0:32:14.600 --> 0:32:16.880 Well, Dina, what's interesting too write from something that looks 0:32:16.880 --> 0:32:19.200 so playful and fun and colorful, like you think that 0:32:19.240 --> 0:32:21.840 there would be some whimsy behind the scenes. But like 0:32:21.920 --> 0:32:23.760 right at the top of your story you talk about 0:32:24.440 --> 0:32:26.680 I think it's with the chief operations officer at Harrabo, 0:32:27.480 --> 0:32:31.240 you know, embodying a German approach. Their words, don't like 0:32:31.320 --> 0:32:34.680 to change things, right. It's just kind of interesting their 0:32:34.720 --> 0:32:36.640 approach to it. But I guess if it works, why 0:32:36.640 --> 0:32:37.479 would you change it? 0:32:38.960 --> 0:32:40.600 Yeah, And you know, I just have to say that 0:32:40.920 --> 0:32:44.640 everything Hakan the COO, everything he said he said with 0:32:44.800 --> 0:32:46.280 like such a smile. 0:32:46.480 --> 0:32:48.320 You everyone was so delighted to be there. 0:32:48.360 --> 0:32:51.840 Everyone was so happy, but they were also so serious 0:32:52.000 --> 0:32:56.000 about how committed they were to quality and to doing 0:32:56.080 --> 0:32:57.160 everything just so. 0:32:58.000 --> 0:33:00.960 And I really I respect it very much. 0:33:01.200 --> 0:33:01.320 Was. 0:33:01.840 --> 0:33:04.480 It was just fantastic. It was really I was so 0:33:05.040 --> 0:33:05.960 delighted to be there. 0:33:06.120 --> 0:33:08.000 Let's talk a little bit about scale Dina and this 0:33:08.400 --> 0:33:11.680 new factory in Wisconsin, the first for Harry Bow in 0:33:11.720 --> 0:33:14.160 North America. How much is produced there, what are their 0:33:14.200 --> 0:33:18.080 plans for increasing output, and just contextualize this with how 0:33:18.160 --> 0:33:20.760 much candy they're actually selling when you look at the 0:33:20.760 --> 0:33:23.280 whole global the whole global industry. 0:33:24.560 --> 0:33:28.640 So they make sixty million gold bears every day at 0:33:28.640 --> 0:33:32.160 this plant. Their plan is to double that by twenty 0:33:32.200 --> 0:33:36.000 twenty five. They're also going to add in manufacturing lines 0:33:36.000 --> 0:33:38.200 for the Twin Snakes, which are a big hit in 0:33:38.440 --> 0:33:40.480 the United States, which I just have to add. The 0:33:41.120 --> 0:33:43.320 twin Snakes are this like it's like one is sweet 0:33:43.320 --> 0:33:45.040 and one is sour. And they said that they're a 0:33:45.080 --> 0:33:47.680 really big hit with adolescents who are like in the 0:33:47.800 --> 0:33:50.840 rebellious stage, which I just thought was so funny. 0:33:50.960 --> 0:33:52.160 I thought you were going to say they're like a 0:33:52.160 --> 0:33:55.520 big hit for adults with young kids, because I texted 0:33:55.520 --> 0:33:58.239 this to a friend group this story. Really you did. 0:33:58.320 --> 0:33:58.560 Yeah. 0:33:58.560 --> 0:34:01.120 By the way, you can get a Bloomberg gift link. 0:34:01.320 --> 0:34:04.160 Okay for people who don't have subscriptions to Bloomberg if 0:34:04.160 --> 0:34:06.719 you are a subscriber to Bloomberg. Yeah, and I sent 0:34:06.800 --> 0:34:09.080 it to the whole group. They loved it, and they 0:34:09.120 --> 0:34:11.840 mentioned the Twin Snakes part of this, Dina, because I 0:34:11.880 --> 0:34:14.200 guess this is a huge sleeper hit that I had 0:34:14.200 --> 0:34:14.920 no idea about. 0:34:15.800 --> 0:34:17.960 I know, same, it was the same for me. And 0:34:17.960 --> 0:34:22.279 they're they're really good. They're they're really good. And yeah, 0:34:22.440 --> 0:34:26.200 the gold Bears are the most popular in major markets 0:34:26.840 --> 0:34:30.000 all over the world, but the different regions have their 0:34:30.040 --> 0:34:32.399 own favorites, and here in the US, we just love 0:34:32.480 --> 0:34:35.239 those Twin Snakes. I feel like we're just not as 0:34:35.280 --> 0:34:38.080 sophisticated as like the people in the Nordic countries who 0:34:38.120 --> 0:34:41.720 love like the black licorice, But the Twin Snakes are 0:34:41.760 --> 0:34:42.319 good for us. 0:34:43.600 --> 0:34:45.040 Come on in. I don't know if you have another 0:34:45.120 --> 0:34:47.080 question for Dina, because it's always curious about kind of 0:34:47.120 --> 0:34:49.759 the editing process on this story and like kind of 0:34:49.800 --> 0:34:51.880 the things you guys wanted to know or how you 0:34:51.960 --> 0:34:52.840 kind of worked it through. 0:34:54.520 --> 0:34:54.840 Yeah. 0:34:54.920 --> 0:34:56.920 Well, I was so interested in the fact that you know, 0:34:56.960 --> 0:34:59.960 there are these sort of like regional, you know, favorites 0:35:00.040 --> 0:35:02.280 that Dina talks about, you know, all over the world. 0:35:02.520 --> 0:35:05.800 Gold there's obviously being the number one everywhere, which she 0:35:05.880 --> 0:35:07.799 pointed out. But I thought it was so fascinating that 0:35:08.080 --> 0:35:11.560 every factory is identical, right, I guess except for like 0:35:11.600 --> 0:35:13.880 the molds of the gummy because they're producing. But like that, 0:35:14.000 --> 0:35:16.319 this factory, which I think is they're the first in 0:35:16.360 --> 0:35:18.840 the US that they've opened, kind of to to the 0:35:18.880 --> 0:35:20.640 point of, you know, how they're trying to expand their 0:35:20.640 --> 0:35:23.960 market share, is like a replica, right of factories in 0:35:24.000 --> 0:35:26.319 Germany and all over the world. Is that right, Dina? 0:35:27.280 --> 0:35:30.960 Yeah, this is their sixteenth factory, and they said that 0:35:31.320 --> 0:35:34.560 it's basically like it's inspired by all the other factories. 0:35:34.640 --> 0:35:38.080 Everything runs just the same as it always has. One 0:35:38.080 --> 0:35:42.600 of the few changes they make is like they when 0:35:42.640 --> 0:35:46.359 technology evolves, they'll they'll evolve with it. So they now 0:35:46.440 --> 0:35:51.319 have automatically guided vehicles doing forklift work instead of manual forklifts. 0:35:51.320 --> 0:35:55.640 But even those robot forklifts are made by you know, 0:35:55.680 --> 0:35:57.280 the same German company that they've. 0:35:57.080 --> 0:35:58.320 Been working with for decades. 0:35:58.680 --> 0:36:02.000 So they really like they've got their faves and they 0:36:02.080 --> 0:36:02.839 just stick with them. 0:36:03.320 --> 0:36:06.440 So can I ask you, Dina, why North America? Finally? 0:36:08.120 --> 0:36:10.840 I mean, this is the this is the place to be. 0:36:11.000 --> 0:36:14.520 I think the US is a huge market and they 0:36:14.560 --> 0:36:18.000 have a lot of room to grow here. They are 0:36:19.040 --> 0:36:23.080 the Harribo brand is the number one sugar confectionery brand 0:36:23.120 --> 0:36:25.320 in the world, but here in the US it actually 0:36:25.880 --> 0:36:34.960 trails behind Skittles and Twizzlers. And so they could, you know, 0:36:35.160 --> 0:36:38.880 use a bump in production and get themselves up at 0:36:38.880 --> 0:36:39.439 the top here. 0:36:39.480 --> 0:36:41.759 Maybe I'm just surprised, you know, that it took them 0:36:41.760 --> 0:36:44.200 so long to open up plant here in the US, 0:36:44.239 --> 0:36:46.000 so that in the north, in North America. So that 0:36:46.080 --> 0:36:47.920 means that all the harry Bows that I've been eating 0:36:48.480 --> 0:36:51.319 for many years of my life have come from some 0:36:51.480 --> 0:36:54.799 other facility. Was it Germany? Like you know where were they? 0:36:54.840 --> 0:36:56.840 Do we know where they were importing them from? I 0:36:56.880 --> 0:37:00.120 will say just a side note. When I was growing up, 0:37:00.239 --> 0:37:02.960 like and we would have visitors come stay with us 0:37:02.960 --> 0:37:06.440 from outside of the US, like they would always bring Haribo. 0:37:06.760 --> 0:37:08.479 Really yeah, like that maybe they've got him a duty 0:37:08.520 --> 0:37:10.640 free or maybe it was like cheaper in Europe or something, 0:37:10.719 --> 0:37:12.440 but like cool, I was, like I always thought it 0:37:12.480 --> 0:37:14.680 was like a foreign thing as I was growing up, 0:37:14.719 --> 0:37:16.960 But yeah, it turns out, you know, maybe that's why 0:37:16.960 --> 0:37:18.640 I like the gummy bears. 0:37:18.400 --> 0:37:20.120 So much now, honey, I always thought it was a 0:37:20.200 --> 0:37:23.239 Japanese brand for some reason, like only recently learned that. 0:37:24.080 --> 0:37:26.360 And the actually the story of the Horribon name is 0:37:26.400 --> 0:37:32.360 kind of interesting. It's like a a portmanteau, right Dina 0:37:32.520 --> 0:37:34.040 of the founder's name. 0:37:34.160 --> 0:37:36.080 That rightiation of that word, but yes. 0:37:37.120 --> 0:37:39.279 An acronym sort of. It's the first two letters of 0:37:39.320 --> 0:37:43.799 the of Hans Regal and Bond, Germany, right where he 0:37:43.880 --> 0:37:46.240 founded the company, Harry bo so creative. 0:37:46.400 --> 0:37:48.359 Hey, you know what, I'm always curious and it makes 0:37:48.400 --> 0:37:50.200 me think of the Island of Misfit Toys, you know, 0:37:50.280 --> 0:37:54.440 the Christmas Special but those irregular bears. There's only small percentage. 0:37:54.480 --> 0:37:56.560 But what happens to them, Like I don't mind if 0:37:57.000 --> 0:37:59.719 it doesn't have an ear or something like what happens and. 0:37:59.640 --> 0:38:03.440 What they never they never leave the plant? I know 0:38:03.760 --> 0:38:04.839 it was, Actually it was. 0:38:05.120 --> 0:38:07.640 It did feel like the Island of Misfit Toy seeing 0:38:07.680 --> 0:38:12.040 the band where they land. But it's actually pretty amazing 0:38:12.080 --> 0:38:15.200 that it's only that it's less than one percent of production. 0:38:16.280 --> 0:38:18.160 But yeah, I mean, I know I should have just 0:38:18.160 --> 0:38:20.120 been like, you know what, I'll take me. 0:38:21.760 --> 0:38:23.839 I did try to get Dina to like, you know, 0:38:24.000 --> 0:38:26.720 get an employee to admit that they've been snacking off. 0:38:26.560 --> 0:38:28.399 The reject their pile, but. 0:38:30.040 --> 0:38:33.440 They were too professional. I guess, okay, Dina. 0:38:33.600 --> 0:38:35.600 What goes into a got me bear? 0:38:37.719 --> 0:38:39.320 It is not very surprising. 0:38:39.520 --> 0:38:44.200 It's mostly like sugar and gelatine and they get sprayed 0:38:44.280 --> 0:38:47.680 with their you know, waxes and oils, et cetera, to 0:38:47.719 --> 0:38:49.320 make sure that they don't stick together. 0:38:49.560 --> 0:38:51.840 But it was pretty amazing that they said. 0:38:51.680 --> 0:38:55.120 The recipe hasn't changed in more than twenty five years, 0:38:55.280 --> 0:38:58.879 and that so as a as a food reporter who's 0:38:58.920 --> 0:39:01.120 been on this beat for some time now, that's just 0:39:01.320 --> 0:39:05.239 incredible that that's how long they've been sticking with the 0:39:05.280 --> 0:39:09.280 same thing, especially after the supply chain challenges during COVID 0:39:09.400 --> 0:39:12.080 because a lot of companies were changing recipes at that 0:39:12.120 --> 0:39:14.239 time because they just couldn't get what they were used to. 0:39:15.000 --> 0:39:17.040 But they've been doing the same thing for more than 0:39:17.040 --> 0:39:18.160 twenty five years. 0:39:18.560 --> 0:39:21.520 It is just wild. Like I'm obsessed with watching these pictures. Sorry, 0:39:21.520 --> 0:39:25.840 I'm getting a little distracted here. What was it? I 0:39:25.880 --> 0:39:27.640 wanted to ask you, Laura, like, as you read the 0:39:27.680 --> 0:39:29.640 story and you guys went through it, like, what was 0:39:29.680 --> 0:39:31.840 the biggest thing that jumped out for you, and it 0:39:31.920 --> 0:39:32.920 just kind of blew your mind. 0:39:35.000 --> 0:39:37.120 Yeah, I mean I think it just goes back to 0:39:37.160 --> 0:39:40.960 that kind of hilarious tension that Dina found in the story. 0:39:41.040 --> 0:39:44.520 You know, as journalists were always looking for what's gonna 0:39:44.560 --> 0:39:46.720 draw a reader in. You know, it's not just the pictures, 0:39:46.760 --> 0:39:49.640 but it is kind of this like just contrast between 0:39:49.680 --> 0:39:52.480 the rainbow colored candies that we all love and this 0:39:52.560 --> 0:39:56.840 kind of highly regimented production process. I also thought it 0:39:56.880 --> 0:40:00.799 was really interesting you did ask Horrbo if they had 0:40:00.840 --> 0:40:03.840 considered getting in, you know, speaking of what adults like 0:40:03.920 --> 0:40:08.919 for children, into the cannabis of gummy market, the weed 0:40:08.960 --> 0:40:12.719 gummy market, and they had actually contemplated that. It sounded like, 0:40:13.719 --> 0:40:15.319 do you know, what did they tell you about that? 0:40:16.080 --> 0:40:18.080 So I would say, I don't know if they contemplated 0:40:18.080 --> 0:40:20.799 it internally in any real way. My guess is probably not. 0:40:20.840 --> 0:40:23.040 But they had the answer ready, so certainly my guess 0:40:23.080 --> 0:40:26.439 is they've been asked before and it was no, no, 0:40:26.600 --> 0:40:29.360 This is not like they're not looking to make anything 0:40:29.520 --> 0:40:32.680 functional or anything along those lines. This would also narrow 0:40:32.760 --> 0:40:35.480 the consumer base. This is just supposed to be like 0:40:35.560 --> 0:40:40.040 a treat you know, just like something to enjoy, and 0:40:41.400 --> 0:40:44.160 they actually also differentiated between like they would say like. 0:40:44.160 --> 0:40:45.440 It's a treat, not a snack. 0:40:46.440 --> 0:40:48.640 I mean, I would say for me in the past 0:40:48.719 --> 0:40:51.319 couple of weeks working on this story, it's it's been 0:40:51.360 --> 0:40:52.200 a little bit of both. 0:40:53.080 --> 0:40:57.719 But they're really focused on just making like gummies that 0:40:57.800 --> 0:40:59.200 make people happy. 0:40:59.640 --> 0:41:03.960 They're not trying to you know, displace anything or be 0:41:04.120 --> 0:41:06.239 medicine or you know, I. 0:41:06.239 --> 0:41:06.839 Will say too. 0:41:06.880 --> 0:41:09.839 I mean they were really you know as as they 0:41:09.840 --> 0:41:12.400 have every right to be, like very protective right of 0:41:12.440 --> 0:41:15.360 certain parts of the process, and certainly like the you know, 0:41:15.480 --> 0:41:18.680 full recipe behind the gummy bears and sort of some 0:41:18.760 --> 0:41:22.719 of the precision, you know, technologies that they're using. That 0:41:22.800 --> 0:41:25.880 was really interesting to me too. Just get thinking, getting 0:41:25.920 --> 0:41:29.360 inside the mind of you know, the gummy CEOs and 0:41:30.320 --> 0:41:33.480 the sort of you know, competitive aspect of this, the 0:41:33.480 --> 0:41:36.000 big the big you know candy makers they're up against. 0:41:36.200 --> 0:41:37.879 Do you know, we only have about twenty seconds left. 0:41:37.920 --> 0:41:41.840 But were there any fans or like groupies outside the factory, 0:41:41.920 --> 0:41:44.120 Like do they have like a company store where you 0:41:44.160 --> 0:41:45.080 can buy them there? 0:41:46.440 --> 0:41:49.439 No, but they did have this like V double like 0:41:49.440 --> 0:41:52.759 like fake v W Harribo van kind of thing that you. 0:41:52.719 --> 0:41:55.120 Could take pictures in front of, which I. 0:41:55.040 --> 0:41:58.040 Enjoyed and took some pictures in front of them, so they 0:41:58.080 --> 0:41:59.600 had It was really out in the middle of nowhere. 0:41:59.600 --> 0:42:01.799 I mean, sorry to a pleasant prairie, but it was 0:42:01.840 --> 0:42:04.640 like a two hour drive from Chicago, and it was 0:42:04.719 --> 0:42:07.640 not an easily accessible plant. 0:42:07.280 --> 0:42:09.719 And you're still eating them and snacking on them, so 0:42:09.760 --> 0:42:11.520 you didn't get turned off by seeing so many, which 0:42:11.560 --> 0:42:12.680 is really had a while. 0:42:12.640 --> 0:42:14.479 Not even a little bit. Oh my god, I'm eating 0:42:14.480 --> 0:42:15.080 them more than. 0:42:15.000 --> 0:42:17.439 I'm all right, guys, thank you so much. Danish Anka 0:42:17.520 --> 0:42:19.680 Luwer plus, thank you so much took out this story. 0:42:19.760 --> 0:42:20.560 It's a good one. 0:42:22.480 --> 0:42:23.799 I'm brothering my. 0:42:26.400 --> 0:42:26.840 Journal. 0:42:27.840 --> 0:42:28.279 Now about you? 0:42:28.320 --> 0:42:28.839 Let me drive? 0:42:29.360 --> 0:42:33.360 No, no, no, no, please go drive, honey, please, how do 0:42:33.480 --> 0:42:34.600 the riding gravels? 0:42:35.000 --> 0:42:36.359 Let's wait, I want to drive. 0:42:36.400 --> 0:42:39.520 It's a good question. 0:42:43.360 --> 0:42:45.960 This is the drive to the Globes dot. 0:42:45.760 --> 0:42:46.279 Com for me. 0:42:46.320 --> 0:42:47.640 I think we'll buy around. 0:42:47.600 --> 0:42:49.760 Yoga don on Bloomberg Radio. 0:42:50.000 --> 0:42:51.600 All right, everybody, I do you want to mention a 0:42:51.640 --> 0:42:54.920 headline crossing the Bloomberg terminal. US regulators are preparing to 0:42:54.920 --> 0:42:57.240 introduce a plan to require that banks tap the Federal 0:42:57.239 --> 0:43:00.920 Reserves discount window at least once a year to reduce 0:43:01.000 --> 0:43:04.120 this stigma and ensure lenders are ready for troubled times. 0:43:04.120 --> 0:43:06.280 We talk about that when they're stressed within the financial 0:43:06.320 --> 0:43:09.840 system or tightening, if you will, and that is looked 0:43:09.840 --> 0:43:12.960 often if someone does it, that maybe there's concerns. So 0:43:13.120 --> 0:43:15.279 this looks like that the FIT is looking to do this. 0:43:15.320 --> 0:43:18.040 Our regulators are looking to get banks to do this 0:43:18.160 --> 0:43:20.759 so that there is again no stigma when you do well. 0:43:20.800 --> 0:43:22.600 In the meantime, I want to talk a little bit 0:43:22.600 --> 0:43:26.480 about the equity markets and specifically a handful of stocks 0:43:26.480 --> 0:43:29.560 because our next guest fund beating just about everyone in 0:43:29.600 --> 0:43:31.960 its category in the past one year, Carol. The Rational 0:43:32.080 --> 0:43:35.680 Dynamic Brands Fund invests in a basket of company stocks 0:43:36.040 --> 0:43:40.160 with attractive and leading brands names such as Amazon, Live, Nation, Costco, 0:43:40.400 --> 0:43:41.040 and Microsoft. 0:43:41.040 --> 0:43:42.520 All right, so let's get to it. Back with us 0:43:42.520 --> 0:43:46.120 as Eric Clark, He's portfolio manager at Rational Dynamic Brands Fund. 0:43:46.160 --> 0:43:48.160 He joins us on Zoom from San Diego as we 0:43:48.239 --> 0:43:51.120 drive to the clothes on this Thursday. Eric, good to 0:43:51.200 --> 0:43:54.759 have you back with us. Happy New Year. We've been 0:43:54.800 --> 0:43:57.480 looking at your portfolio. We always love because you talk brands, 0:43:57.760 --> 0:44:00.400 but based on Bloomberg data, yet I think around thirty 0:44:00.400 --> 0:44:04.120 four stocks at the end of last year, Microsoft, Meta, Apple, 0:44:04.160 --> 0:44:07.360 Alphabet in the fun Top Holding Amazon. You did some 0:44:07.520 --> 0:44:10.800 selling at the end of last year, Disney, Ali Baba 0:44:10.960 --> 0:44:14.759 sd Lauder Regeneron talk to us about first of all, 0:44:14.760 --> 0:44:16.120 the strategy at the end of the year. Was it 0:44:16.320 --> 0:44:20.440 just selling some big decliners, pocketing some gains, some tax 0:44:20.480 --> 0:44:21.800 reasons why the selling first? 0:44:22.840 --> 0:44:26.160 Yeah, exactly, and happy New Year to everybody too. You know, 0:44:26.320 --> 0:44:28.239 if you have some good gains and you want to 0:44:28.280 --> 0:44:30.960 be as tax efficient as possible, then you harvest some 0:44:31.040 --> 0:44:32.160 losses along the way. 0:44:32.600 --> 0:44:33.640 That kind of build up. 0:44:33.880 --> 0:44:36.160 So when you do take some gains, they're they're not 0:44:36.239 --> 0:44:38.680 as meaningful from a cap gains perspective. And that's just 0:44:38.719 --> 0:44:39.560 really what that was. 0:44:39.840 --> 0:44:41.440 So do you plan on getting back into any of 0:44:41.480 --> 0:44:45.640 those companies that Carol mentioned Disney, Celsius. I mean, Celsia's 0:44:45.640 --> 0:44:47.279 hard to find a time when in the last few 0:44:47.320 --> 0:44:50.560 years when that's been a declining stock. I mean, the 0:44:50.600 --> 0:44:52.800 performance over the last fe years has been absolutely incredible. 0:44:53.520 --> 0:44:55.040 Are you planning to get into any of those. 0:44:56.200 --> 0:44:59.160 Celsius is always on the radar, it's a wild, wild 0:44:59.239 --> 0:45:02.480 stock times, but I think it's you know, it's got 0:45:02.520 --> 0:45:06.120 some more upside. It's just very volatile and stay Lauder 0:45:06.160 --> 0:45:08.680 is intriguing. But I need to see one data point 0:45:08.719 --> 0:45:11.440 that says they're getting back on the right track. And 0:45:11.480 --> 0:45:15.200 they're so tethered to China and China just just can't 0:45:15.239 --> 0:45:18.160 seem to get off the mat for a variety of reasons. 0:45:18.200 --> 0:45:21.000 So that we're you know, it's on the list along 0:45:21.000 --> 0:45:24.040 with PayPal too, but we haven't jumped into any of 0:45:24.080 --> 0:45:25.000 those names just yet. 0:45:25.080 --> 0:45:26.879 Yeah, a STEI a lot of Asia Pacific five point 0:45:26.920 --> 0:45:29.799 two billion revenues of twenty twenty three, so that's just 0:45:29.840 --> 0:45:32.439 slightly below Europe, the Middle East, in Africa, so yeah, 0:45:32.520 --> 0:45:35.040 the big overseas. Hey, having said that, all right, so 0:45:35.120 --> 0:45:37.759 let's go to where you are all in Amazon, your 0:45:37.800 --> 0:45:39.680 top holding looks like you added a little bit to 0:45:39.760 --> 0:45:42.040 it maybe end of the year, Live Nation two at 0:45:42.040 --> 0:45:44.520 the end of the year, these two continue to be favorite. 0:45:44.560 --> 0:45:47.879 So let's start with Amazon, Eric, why is this your 0:45:47.920 --> 0:45:50.479 top holding? Why do you continue to like it? What's 0:45:50.520 --> 0:45:53.400 your strategy for when you add or pull back a little? 0:45:54.360 --> 0:45:54.680 Sure? 0:45:54.760 --> 0:45:57.960 I mean, we've always loved Amazon, we've owned it the 0:45:58.120 --> 0:46:01.800 entire time. But when they go through these big spending cycles, 0:46:01.800 --> 0:46:04.160 and this last one was the most epic of all time, 0:46:04.239 --> 0:46:09.120 probably in relative and absolute terms, the stock tends to lag. 0:46:09.160 --> 0:46:13.000 And they essentially built a ups over the last three years, 0:46:13.040 --> 0:46:15.280 which is pretty astonishing. They did a lot of hiring 0:46:15.880 --> 0:46:20.600 and now they're starting to monetize that logistics spend, allowing 0:46:20.680 --> 0:46:24.800 us to order more from Amazon more frequently, which gives 0:46:24.800 --> 0:46:28.359 them better profitability. And you know, the retail business kind 0:46:28.400 --> 0:46:32.040 of gets ignored. It's still something like four hundred billion 0:46:32.600 --> 0:46:36.200 or something in revenue, and everybody only focuses on AWS 0:46:36.320 --> 0:46:39.080 and the cloud initiatives so detail. 0:46:39.120 --> 0:46:41.120 So it makes sense that people focused on. 0:46:41.160 --> 0:46:43.759 Absolutely, but if you think about it, the real look, 0:46:43.840 --> 0:46:45.680 I look at the retail business, it's kind of like 0:46:45.719 --> 0:46:49.920 a costco's it's actually worth two costcos. So when you 0:46:49.960 --> 0:46:55.120 know high volume, low margins, great business, high brand relevancy. 0:46:55.680 --> 0:46:59.359 So the thesis is Amazon has lag for three years, 0:46:59.400 --> 0:47:02.800 which is very rare anyway, and there's some mean reversion 0:47:02.920 --> 0:47:04.880 just in a great business as long as it stays 0:47:05.000 --> 0:47:09.480 really relevant and it has the AWS will re accelerate 0:47:09.560 --> 0:47:12.759 with AI et cetera. The retail business is doing just 0:47:12.920 --> 0:47:16.960 fine getting back to profitability, better net incomes, the stock 0:47:17.000 --> 0:47:20.840 will recover that his historically what's happened so plus the 0:47:20.880 --> 0:47:22.799 ad business, etc. I mean, they just have a lot 0:47:22.880 --> 0:47:23.640 of levers to pull. 0:47:23.800 --> 0:47:26.040 Well, it's that whole idea in terms of the retail sale. 0:47:26.040 --> 0:47:27.840 Like you think about what Walmart right build a business 0:47:27.880 --> 0:47:31.840 out of selling a lot of stuff with pretty low margin, 0:47:32.000 --> 0:47:34.319 probably most of it or a lot of it. So 0:47:34.360 --> 0:47:36.360 it's kind of interesting, but you're right, I mean we 0:47:36.760 --> 0:47:38.560 kind of ignore that business. As Tim said, though the 0:47:38.560 --> 0:47:41.960 profitable business aws, but nonetheless they still a lot of 0:47:42.000 --> 0:47:45.960 stuff increasingly, so everybody's go to is Amazon when it 0:47:45.960 --> 0:47:49.680 comes to retail Live Nation. What's the strategy on this 0:47:49.719 --> 0:47:51.440 one and why you believes it's a buy and you 0:47:51.480 --> 0:47:52.239 continue to like it? 0:47:53.000 --> 0:47:55.440 Yeah, I mean along with Expedia too. I mean we 0:47:55.600 --> 0:47:58.600 like the experiences over the goods theme. I think people, 0:47:58.920 --> 0:48:02.879 you know, we over consume goods and we've just been 0:48:03.200 --> 0:48:07.280 continuously getting out, eating, out, going on vacation, et cetera. 0:48:07.800 --> 0:48:10.239 And you know, something happened with a lot of companies 0:48:10.600 --> 0:48:14.799 through the pandemic, particularly in the travel and the entertainment category. 0:48:15.120 --> 0:48:18.759 They were forced to get really lean and really fit 0:48:18.840 --> 0:48:24.160 from an operational perspective, and so those will pay dividends 0:48:24.200 --> 0:48:28.240 that just better profitability, better margins, better free cash flow, 0:48:28.680 --> 0:48:31.120 will pay dividends over the years because they're not going 0:48:31.160 --> 0:48:34.759 to revert to that lower margin profile if they have 0:48:34.960 --> 0:48:39.640 good brand love, if the category, the spending category is 0:48:39.680 --> 0:48:43.640 still really popular, and we have seen no evidence of 0:48:43.680 --> 0:48:48.279 a slowdown in entertainment and events around the world, and 0:48:48.320 --> 0:48:51.279 so Live Nation is just a better business than they 0:48:51.320 --> 0:48:55.000 once were, and the demand is still super strong, and 0:48:55.040 --> 0:48:57.520 the stock doesn't reflect it at all. So we added 0:48:57.520 --> 0:48:59.960 to it today on this little dip. I think it's 0:49:00.120 --> 0:49:01.520 gift down here under ninety bucks. 0:49:01.560 --> 0:49:03.480 I will say nine percent. Afloat is shorted right now, 0:49:03.480 --> 0:49:05.400 so there's some folks betting big time against it. We 0:49:05.480 --> 0:49:06.520 want to ask you about Envidio. 0:49:06.600 --> 0:49:08.320 Yeah, we got a minute left, Eric. We were shocked 0:49:08.320 --> 0:49:10.719 to see no in Vidia in the portfolio in the fund. 0:49:10.800 --> 0:49:11.520 What's going on here? 0:49:11.560 --> 0:49:11.799 Why? 0:49:11.880 --> 0:49:12.200 Why not? 0:49:13.360 --> 0:49:13.759 You know what? 0:49:13.960 --> 0:49:14.319 We love? 0:49:14.560 --> 0:49:16.200 We love Nvidia, the AI story. 0:49:16.280 --> 0:49:18.080 It's up fifteen this year. 0:49:19.200 --> 0:49:21.880 Yeah, and they and they've done it without us, sadly. 0:49:22.880 --> 0:49:25.279 We just you know, it was resting and then it 0:49:25.360 --> 0:49:28.399 kind of broke out. Basically the first week of the year, 0:49:28.400 --> 0:49:31.200 and we just didn't jump on it. But you know, 0:49:31.360 --> 0:49:33.760 in Vidio is going to give us an another shot. 0:49:33.920 --> 0:49:37.239 It's just such a wild child. It's it's I I'm 0:49:37.280 --> 0:49:41.200 not unsure that that this pull forward of AI won't 0:49:41.200 --> 0:49:45.720 be reflected in Earning's disappointment over the next couple of quarters. 0:49:46.080 --> 0:49:48.960 But listen, we've we had great returns last year and 0:49:49.000 --> 0:49:51.200 we and we didn't known in Vidia barely at all. 0:49:51.360 --> 0:49:53.160 So yeah, you know, we have a lot of names 0:49:53.160 --> 0:49:55.280 that we really love that we think have some great upside. 0:49:55.320 --> 0:49:57.480 It's up another one point seven percent? 0:49:57.520 --> 0:49:57.759 Is there? 0:49:57.800 --> 0:49:59.600 Would you buy it a pullback? And what's the level 0:49:59.640 --> 0:50:02.640 right now? Five sixty nine change? Just fifteen seconds here? 0:50:02.760 --> 0:50:03.480 Would you buy it up? 0:50:03.600 --> 0:50:03.799 Yeah? 0:50:03.840 --> 0:50:06.399 Probably, yeah, Yeah, we'd love to We'd love to buy 0:50:06.400 --> 0:50:08.600 it probably, you know, eight percent or more, which you 0:50:08.600 --> 0:50:10.400 know that thing moves around like crazy. It could be 0:50:10.400 --> 0:50:11.040 in two days. 0:50:12.120 --> 0:50:14.720 All right, Really, really well done. Love love talking names 0:50:14.719 --> 0:50:17.879 with you. I'm so appreciate it. Eric Clark, of course, 0:50:17.880 --> 0:50:20.400 portfolio manage at Rational Dynamic Brands fun on Zoom from 0:50:20.400 --> 0:50:22.200 San Diego has fun by the way down a little 0:50:22.239 --> 0:50:25.360 bit here today at Corinebor Bloomberg Data, but up about 0:50:25.360 --> 0:50:27.920 twenty eight percent in the past one year, so good 0:50:27.960 --> 0:50:29.000 to check in with him. 0:50:29.239 --> 0:50:32.160 Yeah know in video. Yeah eight percent was that eight 0:50:32.160 --> 0:50:34.080 percent of the beginning early in the going. 0:50:33.920 --> 0:50:34.839 In the year, So we'll see. 0:50:34.880 --> 0:50:35.600 This is Bloomberg. 0:50:37.360 --> 0:50:40.560 This is the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. I've a little 0:50:40.560 --> 0:50:44.160 bit of Apple, Spotify and anywhere else you get your podcast. 0:50:44.640 --> 0:50:48.200 Listen live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern on 0:50:48.320 --> 0:50:51.680 Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app tune In, and the 0:50:51.680 --> 0:50:54.680 Bloomberg Business App. You can also watch us live every 0:50:54.680 --> 0:50:58.320 weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal alone.