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Speaker 2: Apple shares surging today by more than three percent, the
Speaker 2: stock's best day since May. This after an upgrade from
Speaker 2: Bank of America, that bank noting that the upside from
Speaker 2: augmented reality and virtual reality ieed vision pro is there,
Speaker 2: they said. Other analys on Wall Street are anticipating modest
Speaker 2: sales the device, we should note, which does cost Carol
Speaker 2: thirty five hundred dollars, and Apple sets a start taking
Speaker 2: orders for that headset tomorrow.
Speaker 3: Good to note. Oh and one app that will not
Speaker 3: be on the new headset is Netflix, the high profile
Speaker 3: snub of the new tech. And then, of course, there's
Speaker 3: the news that cross yesterday that Apple will sell versions
Speaker 3: of its watches without a blood oxygen feature in the
Speaker 3: US following a legal setback in its patents with massa
Speaker 3: ol A lot of yeah.
Speaker 2: A lot of Apple headlines For this and more, We
Speaker 2: go to Mark German, He's chief technology correspondent for Bloomberg News.
Speaker 2: He joins us on zoom from Los Angeles. Mark, I
Speaker 2: want to just start with the news here, just of
Speaker 2: the stock move today. This is notable for a couple
Speaker 2: of reasons. One, at the beginning of the year, we
Speaker 2: talk to you a lot about a series of downgrades
Speaker 2: that the company got. Now Bank America coming out and saying, hey,
Speaker 2: we're actually changing our view on the stock as a
Speaker 2: result of this augmented reality or virtual reality headset. What
Speaker 2: did you make of this?
Speaker 4: Well, I can tell you, like you said, it has
Speaker 4: been an overwhelmingly busy week of Apple news, and that'll
Speaker 4: continue over the next you know, three weeks or so.
Speaker 4: In terms of the prior downgrades about the iPhone, you know,
Speaker 4: we talked about that. Now the upgrades about the division
Speaker 4: pro It's really interesting because I don't anticipate the vision
Speaker 4: pro to ship in any quantity of significance or generate
Speaker 4: any revenue of significance for probably the next five years.
Speaker 4: So maybe they're seeing something I'm not seeing. I certainly
Speaker 4: think it's a promising category, but we are quite ways
Speaker 4: away from it being a needle mover for Apple. It's
Speaker 4: going to take quite a while before that happens, it's
Speaker 4: going to take them releasing AR only glasses before that happens. Personally,
Speaker 4: I'm extremely optimistic about the category, but there are just
Speaker 4: realities for how much money it could bring in and
Speaker 4: how many units they could sell. So that was quite
Speaker 4: an interesting upgrade. There are reasons to be optimistic about Apple.
Speaker 4: You know, Apple's really I think a dark horse contender
Speaker 4: for artificial intelligence. I think that Apple is two years
Speaker 4: behind the competition on this, But for some reason, I
Speaker 4: just believe they're going to do a killer job on
Speaker 4: weaving in AI into the iPhone sixteen in the fall.
Speaker 4: So I think that has a lot of folks pretty
Speaker 4: optimistic internally and has me pretty excited too for the
Speaker 4: future of the product.
Speaker 3: So AI a bigger mover in your view versus this headset, Oh.
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh yeah, Oh my god. I think this headset
Speaker 4: in terms of revenue moving for the company is going
Speaker 4: to be a while. I think AI is where it's
Speaker 4: at for Apple. They've been silent, they've been under a
Speaker 4: rock on this, and they're going to appear in June
Speaker 4: and they're going to make a pretty fantastic announcement related
Speaker 4: to AI and integration into the iPhone and the iPad.
Speaker 4: It's going to take you know, nine months for it
Speaker 4: to hit the market. The new phones won't go and
Speaker 4: sail to September. The new iOS eighteen won't be available
Speaker 4: till September. But I think it's going to be a
Speaker 4: really big deal for the company in terms of how
Speaker 4: that's going to bring Apple revenue in directly, I think
Speaker 4: people are going to buy more iPhones because of that.
Speaker 4: It's going to be really excited.
Speaker 3: Either soon or I will now wait for this upgrade.
Speaker 2: This is really interesting, Mark, because Apple, you know, when
Speaker 2: when we think about AI and Apple like the iPhone
Speaker 2: and iOS do certain things right now that anticipate what
Speaker 2: its users want, which I which I've noticed and I
Speaker 2: find really interesting. For example, when I got off the
Speaker 2: subway and I, you know, go to look for an app,
Speaker 2: it immediately pulls up the Lift app because it knows
Speaker 2: that I want a city bike because I do that
Speaker 2: every day at that time. Mark, what other what are
Speaker 2: the examples of AI being integrated into the phone now?
Speaker 2: And well it's division please yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 4: That's that's really basic, right them being able to predict
Speaker 4: that you need the Lift app. What if your list
Speaker 4: is already They're waiting for you when you land because
Speaker 4: it already did it for you.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 4: What if your web browser, instead of you needing to
Speaker 4: read articles, it's like your new Samsung phone and can
Speaker 4: translate articles for you. What if you're on the phone
Speaker 4: with someone who speaks another language. Let's say you speak
Speaker 4: English and they seek speak Spanish. You're talking into the
Speaker 4: phone in English and they're hearing you in Spanish. They're
Speaker 4: talking into the phone in Spanish and you hear them
Speaker 4: in English.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 4: These are the types of things that Samsung introduced earlier
Speaker 4: this week, and these are the types of things I
Speaker 4: expect the Apple to eventually get into as well, playlist creation
Speaker 4: and Apple Music. Using AI, you need to make a
Speaker 4: presentation and you plug in some of your data points,
Speaker 4: you plug in what you want the presentation to be about,
Speaker 4: and it can make the presentation for you. I think
Speaker 4: those are the powerful AI tools that I'm talking about.
Speaker 4: Take a look at what Samsung did this week. If
Speaker 4: you're watching this and I think you have a little
Speaker 4: bit of a blueprint of what Apple's looking.
Speaker 3: At, that is, well, you know it's interesting too. It's
Speaker 3: funny because we had the CEO the online languaging language
Speaker 3: learning service yesterday and we talked to her about like
Speaker 3: AIS it's gonna basically make it possible that people don't
Speaker 3: necessarily have to learn a new language. They can just
Speaker 3: use AI right in advanced technology to kind of just
Speaker 3: communicate with people of a different who speak a different language.
Speaker 3: And it's already happening.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it could be a new era for for learning
Speaker 4: and education. You know, I got to tell you, On
Speaker 4: one hand, that sounds very exciting. On the other hand,
Speaker 4: you know, that sounds very scary.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: Imagine your kids growing up in an era where instead
Speaker 4: of taking a second language, they don't have to because
Speaker 4: they're not actually doing the learning themselves. I'm not sure
Speaker 4: how good that's going to be for the brain and
Speaker 4: the you know, the the educational development for kids in
Speaker 4: the future. So you know, I'm gonna when I have kids,
Speaker 4: will keep AI away from them maybe for a little bit.
Speaker 3: That reminds me of all the tech CEOs for a
Speaker 3: long time. We're like, yeah, my kid doesn't have a computer,
Speaker 3: My kid doesn't have this interesting coming.
Speaker 4: This is a whole new level, right, Like I would
Speaker 4: be so disappointed, maybe I would No, I would be
Speaker 4: disap point. Let's say my kid has to do a
Speaker 4: presentation or write an essay, uh, and they're not going
Speaker 4: to do it themselves. They're gonna use AI or chut
Speaker 4: GBT to write it for them. I think that's, you know,
Speaker 4: disturbing in some sense. What is it going to mean
Speaker 4: for teachers and grading papers and how things are taught?
Speaker 4: Are no education institution's going to have to revamp homework?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: I mean, I was just going to say that it's
Speaker 2: striking to hear this from Mark not scary. I don't disagree,
Speaker 2: and I think there were a lot There are a
Speaker 2: lot of people who would agree with you. In your
Speaker 2: career covering tech, which, even though you're a young man,
Speaker 2: your career covering this has been quite long because you
Speaker 2: were doing this as a teenager, we should doubt is
Speaker 2: Uh is this sort of the most pivotal moment that
Speaker 2: you've seen.
Speaker 4: It's the second most pivotal moment I've seen. The most
Speaker 4: pivotal was the iPhone, Right, the shift from pre iPhone
Speaker 4: to post iPhone has been significant, And let me just
Speaker 4: say this, the i phone created the whole idea of
Speaker 4: mobile software platforms with sensors and advanced processors and such.
Speaker 4: So this AI revolution that we're walking into right now
Speaker 4: would not exist if it were not for the iPhone's
Speaker 4: creation sixteen years ago. So I would have to put
Speaker 4: the iPhone at number one in AI at number two,
Speaker 4: just because AI doesn't exist without the iPhone, right, I mean,
Speaker 4: you can't put the iPad in that category or VR.
Speaker 4: It's really the iPhone then AI.
Speaker 2: I understand that. But at the same time, you know,
Speaker 2: we've always sort of adopted and accepted technology, I guess
Speaker 2: save for something like Google Glass. But they're trying again
Speaker 2: with all the head mounted stuff. But it does seem
Speaker 2: like you have a sort of reticence around around the
Speaker 2: way that AI could shape our lives.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I think there are really interesting and exciting use cases.
Speaker 4: I think being able to get summaries of web articles.
Speaker 4: I think being able to use generative AI to fill
Speaker 4: in photos and help you with photo editing. I think
Speaker 4: being able to take information that you provide and turn
Speaker 4: that maybe into a keynote or a power point presentation
Speaker 4: for you. Using AI to create music playlists. Those are
Speaker 4: all really exciting use cases for AI. But when you
Speaker 4: start using AI to talk on your behalf, I didn't
Speaker 4: love the Samsung Future that was introduced earlier this week,
Speaker 4: where you could have it change your tone based on
Speaker 4: who you're talking to. Let' say I'm sending an email
Speaker 4: to coworkers, right, or sending an email to my brother,
Speaker 4: or doing a tweet and it knowing to portray a
Speaker 4: different tone in any of those use cases. That's a
Speaker 4: little scary. I don't want to be in a world
Speaker 4: where people aren't being able to think for themselves. Right.
Speaker 4: There's using AI to enhance the tools you're using today,
Speaker 4: and then there's using AI to replace your brain and
Speaker 4: your thinking. And I think that's when AI crosses the line.
Speaker 4: And unfortunately, there's so much money to be earned and
Speaker 4: so much to be won in the technology landscape by
Speaker 4: these multi trillion dollar behemoths that I think they're unfortunately
Speaker 4: going to have a very hard time towing that line. So,
Speaker 4: you know, it's a little scary what's about to happen
Speaker 4: over the next few years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I do wonder, you know, I know regulators
Speaker 3: are all looking at it, thinking about it and how
Speaker 3: it kind of affects their specific you know, world and overview.
Speaker 3: I think it was I just I think Gary Gary
Speaker 3: Ginsler of the SEC made some some comments about AI
Speaker 3: specifically this week in terms of financial instruments. I'm kind
Speaker 3: of shocked. I think both Tim and I are about
Speaker 3: kind of the warnings you're putting out there, but I
Speaker 3: think obviously so relevant as we are kind of very
Speaker 3: fast moving into this space. Mark, thank you, really appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Have a good weekend. I'm feeling I'm feeling a little stressed.
Speaker 3: I'm feeling a little stressed. Stressed.
Speaker 2: Mark will save us? Okay, Yes, Mark German, Chief Technology
Speaker 2: correspondent for Bloomberg News.
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Speaker 3: YouTube elon Musk SpaceX. It is set to launch the
Speaker 3: first all of European commercial true to the International Space Station.
Speaker 3: It's the landmark mission for a region yearning for a
Speaker 3: better year of space exploration following a series of setbacks.
Speaker 3: By the way, it would be the third commercial flight
Speaker 3: to the space station, and if all goes as planned,
Speaker 3: we'll kick off a two week research mission and it's
Speaker 3: an interesting in terms of its crew.
Speaker 2: Well, we're actually looking at a picture right now of
Speaker 2: the Falcon nine rocket that is set to lift off
Speaker 2: any minute at four forty nine pm from Kennedy Space
Speaker 2: Center in Florida. We've got a great roundtable of space
Speaker 2: experts who also both happen to have new books out
Speaker 2: with us this afternoon. Lauren Grush's space reporter here at
Speaker 2: Bloomberg News. She's also the author of The Six, The
Speaker 2: Untold Story of America's first women Astronauts. She joins us
Speaker 2: from our Austin, Texas bureau, and Kelly Wiener Smith is
Speaker 2: back with us. She's adjunct professor in the Rice University
Speaker 2: Biosciences Department, also the author of A City on Mars?
Speaker 2: Can we Settle Space? Should we settle Space? And have
Speaker 2: we really thought this through? She joins us on zoom
Speaker 2: from Charlottesville, Virginia.
Speaker 3: All right, so Lauren, let's start. Let's thank you to
Speaker 3: both of you. Welcome, Welcome, Lauren. Let's start with you, though,
Speaker 3: because you're watching this closely and are reporting it out
Speaker 3: for Bloomberg. Top of mind is you wait this liftoff?
Speaker 7: Well, you know it's I think what's top of mind?
Speaker 7: For me is just how routine these kinds of launches
Speaker 7: are becoming. This is the third mission for Axiom Space
Speaker 7: as part of their partnership with SpaceX, and Axiom Space
Speaker 7: has been conducting these missions to prepare for their own
Speaker 7: commercial space station, which they are hoping to launch this decade.
Speaker 7: So yeah, it's just you know, the fact that these
Speaker 7: are becoming routine when just a few years ago, you
Speaker 7: know the fact that SpaceX was launching people at all
Speaker 7: was a novel thing.
Speaker 2: Lauren, can you explain what it means that the mission
Speaker 2: is actually operated by Axiom versus operated by a government
Speaker 2: agency or operated by SpaceX for example, Right.
Speaker 7: So, you know, SpaceX is operating the mission in terms
Speaker 7: of you know, they're in charge of the Crew Dragon.
Speaker 7: They're in charge of the Falcon nine that launches the
Speaker 7: Crew Dragon of space. But it's really kind of that
Speaker 7: Axiom is brokering this mission. You know, they're the ones
Speaker 7: that go out and find the astronauts to launch to
Speaker 7: the International Space Station. They make sure that they have
Speaker 7: the agreements with NASA in place to be able to
Speaker 7: use the International Space Station's resources, and they're also in
Speaker 7: charge of coming up with the experiments that the astronauts
Speaker 7: will do when they're on the International Space Station. So
Speaker 7: they're kind of in charge of putting it all together,
Speaker 7: but obviously SpaceX is in charge of, you know, making
Speaker 7: sure that they get to space safely.
Speaker 3: It's very different from like the sixties, right, and the
Speaker 3: race to put a man on the Moon, when it
Speaker 3: was all over the government, all the government.
Speaker 2: It was a whole of government approach, right, it was
Speaker 2: just NASA.
Speaker 3: All in all in all in this mission, research mission,
Speaker 3: what do we know about it?
Speaker 7: So they'll be conducting over thirty research missions on board
Speaker 7: in roughly two weeks. It's a pretty quick trip compared
Speaker 7: to what you know, the NASA astronauts do when they
Speaker 7: go to the space station. They usually stay for about
Speaker 7: six months at a time. But it will give them
Speaker 7: a lot of opportunities to perform in the space environment
Speaker 7: that they wouldn't be able to do otherwise. And then
Speaker 7: they'll come home and splash down in the crew Dragon
Speaker 7: when they're done.
Speaker 2: Hey, Lauren Grush, we got to let you go because
Speaker 2: your space reporter and you are supposed to be covering
Speaker 2: this launch and it's t minus what less than four
Speaker 2: minutes right now?
Speaker 7: I think we have about four minutes ago. So I'm
Speaker 7: going to run, but I'm glad to have joined you guys,
Speaker 7: and I'll go cover this mission.
Speaker 2: We always love it when you joined us. Lauren. She's
Speaker 2: space reporter here at Bloomberg News, also the author of
Speaker 2: The Sixth The Untold Story of America's first women Astronauts.
Speaker 2: She joins us from our Austin, Texas bureau. Let's get
Speaker 2: over to Kelly Wiener Smith, the author of A City
Speaker 2: on Mars? Can we Settle Space? Should we settle Space?
Speaker 2: And have we really thought this through? She joins us
Speaker 2: on a zoom from charlotte Ville, Virginia. Good to have
Speaker 2: you back with us, Kelly. So I want you to
Speaker 2: build on what Lauren was talking about just now, and
Speaker 2: the idea that this stuff has become so routine. So
Speaker 2: that's kind of what sticks out to me too, is like,
Speaker 2: you know, the first time this happened, it was a
Speaker 2: really big deal. The first time SpaceX landed one of
Speaker 2: its reusable boosters. In the second and third and fourth
Speaker 2: and fifth times, those were pretty cool. That was news.
Speaker 2: But now this stuff is us so routine, it's like
Speaker 2: just another day in the life of a space explorer.
Speaker 8: Yeah, it has become routine, and I'm super excited to
Speaker 8: see us launching astronauts from the US again. So, you know,
Speaker 8: we retired the Space Shuttle in twenty eleven, and then
Speaker 8: for almost a decade there when we wanted to send
Speaker 8: our astronauts to space, we have to pay for tickets
Speaker 8: aboard the Russian Soya's craft. And so now it's exciting
Speaker 8: to have SpaceX working on just about their tenth crew
Speaker 8: launch to the International Space Station. And as you said,
Speaker 8: it's become routine and it's exciting to be there again.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, that's what's interesting to me. I was
Speaker 3: thinking as we were talking with our reporter, when we're
Speaker 3: talking with Lauren you know where, she said, it's become routine,
Speaker 3: and I think, okay, that's kind of I think boring,
Speaker 3: But I also think how cool that, you know, it's
Speaker 3: you know, go back to July twenty first, nineteen sixty nine.
Speaker 3: People got up, people were glued to their TV sets
Speaker 3: to think, oh my god, there's a man on the
Speaker 3: moon and my team knows it. My dad was involved
Speaker 3: with a lot of space work early on, so it
Speaker 3: was just like a very big d the whole world watched.
Speaker 3: But how cool that we are a part in our
Speaker 3: civilization if you will, that they have become somewhat routine,
Speaker 3: and I don't know, I think about where that could
Speaker 3: possibly take us. And that's your book gets into it
Speaker 3: about kind of living on another planet. I mean, how
Speaker 3: do you think about the big you know, bigger picture
Speaker 3: when it comes to space exploration here in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 8: Yeah, well, so tying that question into this this point
Speaker 8: that it's becoming routine, you know, so today the first
Speaker 8: astronaut from Turkey is flying. And so as it becomes
Speaker 8: more routine, we're getting a more diverse group of people
Speaker 8: up into space and we learn more about how different cultures,
Speaker 8: different bodies respond to the space environment. And we're going
Speaker 8: to need that kind of information. And so Axiom does
Speaker 8: commercial launches, so you can pay to send astronauts up
Speaker 8: to the International Space Station and that's sort of changing
Speaker 8: the criteria a little bit for going to space. So,
Speaker 8: you know, NASA astronauts are like the finest specimens that
Speaker 8: are human species has to offer. And as you start
Speaker 8: having more tourism, you get, you know, people who are
Speaker 8: older than maybe the ideal we would imagine for sending
Speaker 8: someone to space and you get a broader sense of
Speaker 8: how bodies in different ages and different states start to respond.
Speaker 8: And that kind of information is going to be important
Speaker 8: if we're going to start setting up settlements or something
Speaker 8: at some point. So as this stuff comes becomes routine,
Speaker 8: we learn more. And also, you know, as the equipment
Speaker 8: goes up there, more often we learn what you know,
Speaker 8: how often it fails.
Speaker 3: Hey, just to remind everybody, we are awaiting Elon Musk.
Speaker 3: SpaceX set to launch the first all European commercial crew
Speaker 3: to the International Space Station. We are looking at what
Speaker 3: about forty three seconds to go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're looking at pictures right now of that launch
Speaker 2: that is set to happen just about forty seconds. It's
Speaker 2: a landmark mission for a region yearning for a better
Speaker 2: year of space exploration following a series of setbacks. This
Speaker 2: Falcon nine rocket is set to lift often about thirty
Speaker 2: seconds from NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida. This launch
Speaker 2: originally planned for Wednesday, but was delayed to day to
Speaker 2: have SpaceX more time to do analysis and checkouts of
Speaker 2: the rocket encapsule. That is according to the company, and
Speaker 2: we did.
Speaker 3: Mention an international flight. We've got eleven ten seconds to
Speaker 3: go here, So we're watching whether or not we see it.
Speaker 3: Looks like everything is kicking in, and let's listen in
Speaker 3: one big mission hits and full powers, and let's go as.
Speaker 5: Falco NI takes that LAS.
Speaker 2: Further beyond, opening the door for more to follow.
Speaker 3: All Right, everybody, you're listening as that Falcon nine rocket
Speaker 3: SpaceX Falcon nine rocket did take off on time four
Speaker 3: forty nine. Talk about being on time from Kennedy Space
Speaker 3: Center in Florida. It is the first you all European
Speaker 3: commercial crew to the International Space Station. And you're talking
Speaker 3: about a NASA astronaut, an Italian co pilot. You've got
Speaker 3: a couple of mission specialists, one from Turkey, one from Sweden.
Speaker 3: So we're talking about two week research mission as well.
Speaker 3: So big deal. Yes, it's become routine, but I got
Speaker 3: to tell you, every time I see it and they
Speaker 3: take off and they go into space, I kind of
Speaker 3: get chills.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is pretty spectacular. We're seeing images of the
Speaker 2: rocket taking off about exactly one minute at this point
Speaker 2: into the launch sequence. Commanding Thursday's flight is Michael Lopez Allegria,
Speaker 2: who led the AX one mission back in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2: That was Axiom's first mission to the ISS pilot Walters
Speaker 2: via Day from the Italian Air Force and mission specialist
Speaker 2: Marcus want of Sweden, as well as Alper Gazvaci of Turkey,
Speaker 2: and they're going to participate in that two week mission.
Speaker 3: Remember this was supposed to happen yesterday, so a little
Speaker 3: bit of a delay here, but nonetheless on time four
Speaker 3: to forty nine, that Falcon nine rocket setting off from
Speaker 3: Kennedy Space Center in Florida, home to so many space missions.
Speaker 3: Really the history if you think about US space work,
Speaker 3: that is where is really kind of such a key point,
Speaker 3: and so whenever you see it, it just really takes
Speaker 3: you back throughout the history of what over fifty years
Speaker 3: or so that the US has been involved. I should
Speaker 3: say the pilot, I believe it, or the NASA astronaut
Speaker 3: he is sixty five, holds dual US Spanish citizenship, a
Speaker 3: veteran of five previous space flights and ten spacewalks.
Speaker 2: We should note some other context here that Thursday's launch
Speaker 2: comes as europe space industry has struggled to get off
Speaker 2: the ground due to delays. We should know too that
Speaker 2: the rocket which is four years behind schedule, is expected
Speaker 2: to blast off this summer. That's the Arian six from Europe.
Speaker 2: Will the Vegas Sea Rocket is set to lift off
Speaker 2: during the fourth quarter after a mission failure at the
Speaker 2: end of twenty twenty two.
Speaker 3: All right, so let's go back to Kelly Wienersmith, who's
Speaker 3: been watching with us as well or listening along, adjunct
Speaker 3: professor in the Rice University Biosciences Department Department. We've talked
Speaker 3: with her about her book that was out recently, A
Speaker 3: City on Mars? Can we Settle Space? Should we settle Space?
Speaker 3: And have we really thought this through? How do you
Speaker 3: what do you teach your students today who are probably
Speaker 3: kind of, oh, yeah, there's another thing that's flying up
Speaker 3: in space, like they too have kind of got used
Speaker 3: to it. It's a very different era. But what is
Speaker 3: it that you want to kind of relay to them
Speaker 3: or teach them about space exploration.
Speaker 8: Well, I'd like them to be excited about how international
Speaker 8: this activity is. You know, you have four different countries
Speaker 8: from Europe represented on this one flight, and there's even
Speaker 8: more countries represented up at the International Space Station. And additionally,
Speaker 8: you know, the more times we go up and the
Speaker 8: more experience we get, the better we get at space,
Speaker 8: and the better that helps us with various exploration stuff.
Speaker 8: And you know, we're we're working our way back to
Speaker 8: the Moon, which is exciting as well.
Speaker 2: We should know to continue to follow the launch here.
Speaker 2: The Falcon nine first and second stages are separating, and
Speaker 2: we just saw an image of the crew actually clapping
Speaker 2: as that did occur. Hey, Kelly, it's always like a yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it is. Well, talk to us, talk to us a
Speaker 2: little bit about the process here, Kelly, And it's really
Speaker 2: what we should be listening for and what should we
Speaker 2: should be watching for as this crew makes its way
Speaker 2: to the ISS.
Speaker 8: Well, I'm not really a launch experts and so I'm
Speaker 8: not really sure what we should be looking for at
Speaker 8: this point. I'm more about space settlements.
Speaker 3: Well, and one thing I will want to say, what's
Speaker 3: interesting and I you know, I was telling these guys
Speaker 3: my dad was involved in early on. You know, the
Speaker 3: idea that these rockets go back down to Earth, right,
Speaker 3: that the return to Earth is just kind of fascinating
Speaker 3: because that's not how it used to be. You lost
Speaker 3: a rocket that would send something into space, So it's
Speaker 3: such a different you know, if you think about how
Speaker 3: it has evolved is just kind of mind blow I
Speaker 3: think about I don't think it was in my dad's
Speaker 3: error because he's passed away, but it's just kind of
Speaker 3: wild that we have progressed to that point that we
Speaker 3: can reuse these rockets.
Speaker 2: Well, it's something you know, we should. We'll go ahead, Kelly.
Speaker 8: The Shuttle was supposed to be reusable but ended up
Speaker 8: being so expensive to reuse it that it just didn't
Speaker 8: become a viable way to get stuff to space. And
Speaker 8: the fact that SpaceX has not only made things reusable,
Speaker 8: but you know, made reusing these things so cheap, has
Speaker 8: really lowered the cost of going to space.
Speaker 2: Okay, so I'm glad he brought that up, because that's
Speaker 2: exactly where I was go How much I was going
Speaker 2: to go. How much credit is due to Elon Muskin
Speaker 2: SpaceX for revolutionizing the way that these things can be reused.
Speaker 8: You know, I think a lot I've heard a lot
Speaker 8: of people complain that, you know, must gets government money,
Speaker 8: and so I don't know why it's so exciting, like
Speaker 8: we did this with the Space Shuttle, but you know,
Speaker 8: lots of companies get government money, but no one has
Speaker 8: been able to drop the cost the way SpaceX has
Speaker 8: been able to drop the cost, and so I remain
Speaker 8: very impressed.
Speaker 3: So Kelly, when you think about kind of where we
Speaker 3: should go with this, I mean, all of the NASA
Speaker 3: work and lead up to getting and putting a man
Speaker 3: on the moon back in the nineteen sixties, you know,
Speaker 3: led to some innovation, some development. You know, a lot
Speaker 3: of investment went in that. We talk about it often
Speaker 3: today that there isn't enough investment maybe in this world
Speaker 3: or we're shortsighted minus maybe an elon Musk and some others.
Speaker 3: So when you think about it, I think about your
Speaker 3: book seat down Mars, like, why is it so important
Speaker 3: or why is it not? Like what's your view on
Speaker 3: that in terms of investing in this and what it
Speaker 3: brings to a nation or to a world, to citizens
Speaker 3: of the world.
Speaker 8: Well, investing in space has lots of benefits back here
Speaker 8: on Earth, as you know. So for example, if you
Speaker 8: study Venus, you can learn about what climate change can
Speaker 8: do to a planet, and that gives us some lessons
Speaker 8: that are helpful back here on Earth. So exploration can
Speaker 8: teach us not just about space, but you know about
Speaker 8: Earth as well. We get experience working together on the
Speaker 8: International Space Station. I don't think that's going to solve
Speaker 8: a lot of our geopolitical problems, but it's nice to
Speaker 8: have some areas where we're connecting with other people. And
Speaker 8: you know, I just think humans, we love to learn
Speaker 8: about our environment in space just sort of helps us
Speaker 8: learn about the world around us.
Speaker 2: You're also, though, I've taken sort of a in the
Speaker 2: in the book, and we spoke about this back in
Speaker 2: October November when we had you on the program, a
Speaker 2: critical look at the way that we're thinking about planets
Speaker 2: and settling planets outside of Earth. Of course, talk to
Speaker 2: us a little bit about you know why you think,
Speaker 2: and it's in the book's title, we haven't necessarily thought
Speaker 2: the idea through that we should be settling other planets.
Speaker 8: Well, you know, there's only so much that you can
Speaker 8: learn on the International Space Station about how human bodies
Speaker 8: respond to space or protected from a lot of space
Speaker 8: radiation by the magnetosphere if you're on the International Space Station,
Speaker 8: for example, So we don't really know how space radiation
Speaker 8: impacts human bodies. And so you know, i'd say we've
Speaker 8: done a lot of cool things in space, and we
Speaker 8: have a really exciting low Earth orbit economy. But in
Speaker 8: terms of whether or not we know enough to be
Speaker 8: having babies and growing families on a place like the
Speaker 8: Moon or Mars, we're just we're really not there yet.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of interesting, right. Hey, Just to re
Speaker 3: remind everybody if you're just tuning in here, SpaceX rocket
Speaker 3: blasting off today, carrying the first all European commercial crew
Speaker 3: to the International Space Station Landmark mission. As we've been
Speaker 3: talking about for a region, looking to mount a comeback
Speaker 3: following a series of setbacks, it's been a little bit
Speaker 3: of a rough ride over the last year or so.
Speaker 3: SpaceX's Falcon nine rocket, topped with its crew dragon capsule,
Speaker 3: lifted off at four forty nine pm Local time on
Speaker 3: time from NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida. This is
Speaker 3: according also to a webcast of the mission, but we
Speaker 3: watched it listen in a little bit sick.
Speaker 9: We did stick that landing. Falcon nine has landed once again.
Speaker 4: But turning our.
Speaker 9: Attention back to the crew, as you see there, our
Speaker 9: next event is second engine cutoff or SICCO as it's
Speaker 9: referred to there at the bottom of your screen. Second
Speaker 9: stage we'll coast for a few minutes until Dragon is
Speaker 9: commanded to separate a lot of just the energy. Here
Speaker 9: as BaseX mission control is buzzing, you can hear commentary
Speaker 9: behind us. Right now, the crew is experiencing about three g's,
Speaker 9: so pretty much a roller coaster for those thrill seekers
Speaker 9: out there.
Speaker 3: All right, everybody, so you are listening to NASA's Kennedy
Speaker 3: Space Center obviously telling us exactly what is happening to
Speaker 3: the crew aboard the rocket there the.
Speaker 2: Falcon nine Dragon, Yeah, should say Falcon nine.
Speaker 3: Excuse me, And just keep in mind that this crew
Speaker 3: expected to dock at the Orbiting Research Lab some two
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty miles above Earth and roughly around five
Speaker 3: fifteen am New York time on January twentieth, so we've
Speaker 3: got to give it a little bit of time to
Speaker 3: ultimately get there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this crew is expected to dock at the Orbiting
Speaker 2: Research Laboratory. They are in the Crew Dragon capsule from
Speaker 2: SpaceX right now, some two hundred and fifty miles above Earth.
Speaker 2: That's set to be happened at roughly five point fifteen
Speaker 2: am on January twentieth, So there is some time they're
Speaker 2: going to be spending getting to the ISS.
Speaker 3: A couple of movies, some peanuts that kind. No, that
Speaker 3: doesn't happen. Kelly Wiener Smith is here with us, of course,
Speaker 3: the adject professor in the Rice University of bio Sciences Department,
Speaker 3: her book that we've talked about City on Mars. Just
Speaker 3: got about forty five seconds or so. Final thoughts here
Speaker 3: as another mission goes up. YEP, routine, but it's still
Speaker 3: pretty amazing.
Speaker 8: Yeah, still totally amazing and exciting to see astronauts coming
Speaker 8: from US soil Way to go, SpaceX and Axiom in NASA.
Speaker 3: Hey, one last question, your students. Are they interested in
Speaker 3: being involved in space development and working either with the
Speaker 3: government or private companies like a SpaceX Again just about
Speaker 3: twenty seconds or so.
Speaker 8: Yeah, they are, and I think they're interested in seeing
Speaker 8: it done in a way that also protects the Earth
Speaker 8: and you know, takes into account diverse perspectives. It's very
Speaker 8: exciting working with students.
Speaker 2: They've got a good perspective, very very cool stuff. Hey,
Speaker 2: really appreciate you joining us this afternoon. Kelly Wiener Smith,
Speaker 2: adject professor in the Rice University Biosciences Department, also the
Speaker 2: author of A City on Mars can we settle space?
Speaker 2: Should we settle space? And have we really thought this through?
Speaker 2: Joining us on zoom from Charlottesville, Virginia.
Speaker 3: All right, off and running that SpaceX rocket blasted off,
Speaker 3: and we've got an international are all actually all European
Speaker 3: commercial crew to the International Space Station. So we'll continue
Speaker 3: to monitor it. Everybody, This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
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Speaker 1: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station.
Speaker 1: Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty Yummy, yummy.
Speaker 3: Yummy, Fine, all right, yummy, yummy yummy. We're talking gummy
Speaker 3: gummy gummies from This is a great story, man. We
Speaker 3: have talked about this a lot. On this Thursday, I
Speaker 3: realized I can't get.
Speaker 2: Enough of this story. Nobody can get enough of this story.
Speaker 2: It turns out everybody loves gummy bears.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, it's a real left candy factory out
Speaker 3: of Charlie the Chocolate Factory. It's not this is real.
Speaker 2: This is like this is like a you know, sanitized
Speaker 2: like simple. There's no Willy Wonka there. You're not going
Speaker 2: to fall into a river. Everything is, you know, very
Speaker 2: very everywhere. This we're talking about the Harry Boat Plant
Speaker 2: and Pleasant Prairie, Wisconsin. It's the company's first one in
Speaker 2: North America. It's a cavernous facility that's mostly colorless and
Speaker 2: meticulously clean, staffed largely by robots. How do we know
Speaker 2: all of this? Well? In her latest for Bloomberg Business Week,
Speaker 2: Tina Shanker got to spend some time inside the new
Speaker 2: Harry Boat Plant in Wisconsin. A pretty sweet assignment, I
Speaker 2: would say. Dina Shanker is consumer reporter for Bloomberg. Nars
Speaker 2: is with us on Zoom from New York City. Also
Speaker 2: here is Laura Bliss, who edited this story. Laura is
Speaker 2: City Lab editor. She joins us from San Francisco. Dina,
Speaker 2: First off, how many gummy bears did you eat in
Speaker 2: the production of this story?
Speaker 10: Do we count the ones I was eating right before
Speaker 10: I came on camera?
Speaker 5: Yes, all flavors, all the flavors. I mean, I am
Speaker 5: on the gummy bears, I am on the twin snakes,
Speaker 5: which I didn't even.
Speaker 10: Know about twin snakes until before the story.
Speaker 5: They're so good, the Harribo peaches, I mean everything, They're.
Speaker 10: All just they're really good.
Speaker 5: And they don't all taste the same, which you might
Speaker 5: expect that the just the shapes are different, but the
Speaker 5: flavors are the same.
Speaker 10: They're not. They are all different and they are all delicious.
Speaker 2: So, Dina, a lot of our viewers and listeners know
Speaker 2: you from the I don't want to call it fake
Speaker 2: meat beat, but the not quite meat plant based meat beat,
Speaker 2: Like that is what you do. The factories that you
Speaker 2: cover are the ones that produce the impossible and beyond,
Speaker 2: and you've been doing that for years. How did you
Speaker 2: end up finding yourself in the gummy bear fact?
Speaker 3: What was the pitch to the editors and the editorial
Speaker 3: Dude Like, hey guys, I kind of like gummies. No,
Speaker 3: what was the pitch?
Speaker 10: I have to say this actually this story.
Speaker 5: I'm so lucky this story came to me that they
Speaker 5: asked me to write it because they had a photographer
Speaker 5: who was obsessed with hairbo and really wanted to do
Speaker 5: this story.
Speaker 10: And they were like, Dina, would you do it? And
Speaker 10: I was like, obviously, I will do this. Thank you
Speaker 10: so much.
Speaker 5: I will be there tomorrow, thank you, And I'm going
Speaker 5: to bring some home, all.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah exactly. Lord, come on in. You edited the
Speaker 3: story your City City Lab editor here at Bloomberg size
Speaker 3: and scope. This story has it all.
Speaker 6: Yeah, this was so much fun to work on with
Speaker 6: Dina and the photographer who just produced these incredible photos
Speaker 6: and videos and likes. As you guys were talking about,
Speaker 6: you know, the photos kind of give you a sense
Speaker 6: of its place. It's just like full of rainbow colored fun.
Speaker 6: But that's actually not what Dina found it to be
Speaker 6: at all. It was actually this like pretty, you know, serious,
Speaker 6: like totem to like Germanic manufacturing. And I don't know,
Speaker 6: I would love to hear Diana talk more about that.
Speaker 6: You know, did that surprise you?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 6: Learning more about how this company actually works and makes
Speaker 6: these beloved candies?
Speaker 3: It?
Speaker 10: You know, it did. I've been to so many food
Speaker 10: manufacturing plants.
Speaker 5: I mean, I've been to the fake meat plants Shore,
Speaker 5: but I've been to real meat plants.
Speaker 10: I've been to you know, fish and pet food and so.
Speaker 5: Many kinds of food plants. This was by far the
Speaker 5: cleanest one I have ever been in. It was so orderly,
Speaker 5: everything was running like exactly as it was intended to.
Speaker 10: There was just and they were so happy. Everybody was
Speaker 10: very happy, but.
Speaker 3: They were very serious about the work at hand.
Speaker 5: They were there to make the best gummies, and they
Speaker 5: know how to make the best gummies because they've been
Speaker 5: doing it for so long and they really weren't interested
Speaker 5: in trying to do anything other than make the world's
Speaker 5: best gumpies.
Speaker 3: Well, Dina, what's interesting too write from something that looks
Speaker 3: so playful and fun and colorful, like you think that
Speaker 3: there would be some whimsy behind the scenes. But like
Speaker 3: right at the top of your story you talk about
Speaker 3: I think it's with the chief operations officer at Harrabo,
Speaker 3: you know, embodying a German approach. Their words, don't like
Speaker 3: to change things, right. It's just kind of interesting their
Speaker 3: approach to it. But I guess if it works, why
Speaker 3: would you change it?
Speaker 5: Yeah, And you know, I just have to say that
Speaker 5: everything Hakan the COO, everything he said he said with
Speaker 5: like such a smile.
Speaker 10: You everyone was so delighted to be there.
Speaker 5: Everyone was so happy, but they were also so serious
Speaker 5: about how committed they were to quality and to doing
Speaker 5: everything just so.
Speaker 10: And I really I respect it very much.
Speaker 6: Was.
Speaker 5: It was just fantastic. It was really I was so
Speaker 5: delighted to be there.
Speaker 2: Let's talk a little bit about scale Dina and this
Speaker 2: new factory in Wisconsin, the first for Harry Bow in
Speaker 2: North America. How much is produced there, what are their
Speaker 2: plans for increasing output, and just contextualize this with how
Speaker 2: much candy they're actually selling when you look at the
Speaker 2: whole global the whole global industry.
Speaker 5: So they make sixty million gold bears every day at
Speaker 5: this plant. Their plan is to double that by twenty
Speaker 5: twenty five. They're also going to add in manufacturing lines
Speaker 5: for the Twin Snakes, which are a big hit in
Speaker 5: the United States, which I just have to add. The
Speaker 5: twin Snakes are this like it's like one is sweet
Speaker 5: and one is sour. And they said that they're a
Speaker 5: really big hit with adolescents who are like in the
Speaker 5: rebellious stage, which I just thought was so funny.
Speaker 2: I thought you were going to say they're like a
Speaker 2: big hit for adults with young kids, because I texted
Speaker 2: this to a friend group this story. Really you did.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: By the way, you can get a Bloomberg gift link.
Speaker 2: Okay for people who don't have subscriptions to Bloomberg if
Speaker 2: you are a subscriber to Bloomberg. Yeah, and I sent
Speaker 2: it to the whole group. They loved it, and they
Speaker 2: mentioned the Twin Snakes part of this, Dina, because I
Speaker 2: guess this is a huge sleeper hit that I had
Speaker 2: no idea about.
Speaker 5: I know, same, it was the same for me. And
Speaker 5: they're they're really good. They're they're really good. And yeah,
Speaker 5: the gold Bears are the most popular in major markets
Speaker 5: all over the world, but the different regions have their
Speaker 5: own favorites, and here in the US, we just love
Speaker 5: those Twin Snakes. I feel like we're just not as
Speaker 5: sophisticated as like the people in the Nordic countries who
Speaker 5: love like the black licorice, But the Twin Snakes are
Speaker 5: good for us.
Speaker 3: Come on in. I don't know if you have another
Speaker 3: question for Dina, because it's always curious about kind of
Speaker 3: the editing process on this story and like kind of
Speaker 3: the things you guys wanted to know or how you
Speaker 3: kind of worked it through.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Well, I was so interested in the fact that you know,
Speaker 6: there are these sort of like regional, you know, favorites
Speaker 6: that Dina talks about, you know, all over the world.
Speaker 6: Gold there's obviously being the number one everywhere, which she
Speaker 6: pointed out. But I thought it was so fascinating that
Speaker 6: every factory is identical, right, I guess except for like
Speaker 6: the molds of the gummy because they're producing. But like that,
Speaker 6: this factory, which I think is they're the first in
Speaker 6: the US that they've opened, kind of to to the
Speaker 6: point of, you know, how they're trying to expand their
Speaker 6: market share, is like a replica, right of factories in
Speaker 6: Germany and all over the world. Is that right, Dina?
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is their sixteenth factory, and they said that
Speaker 5: it's basically like it's inspired by all the other factories.
Speaker 5: Everything runs just the same as it always has. One
Speaker 5: of the few changes they make is like they when
Speaker 5: technology evolves, they'll they'll evolve with it. So they now
Speaker 5: have automatically guided vehicles doing forklift work instead of manual forklifts.
Speaker 5: But even those robot forklifts are made by you know,
Speaker 5: the same German company that they've.
Speaker 10: Been working with for decades.
Speaker 5: So they really like they've got their faves and they
Speaker 5: just stick with them.
Speaker 3: So can I ask you, Dina, why North America? Finally?
Speaker 10: I mean, this is the this is the place to be.
Speaker 5: I think the US is a huge market and they
Speaker 5: have a lot of room to grow here. They are
Speaker 5: the Harribo brand is the number one sugar confectionery brand
Speaker 5: in the world, but here in the US it actually
Speaker 5: trails behind Skittles and Twizzlers. And so they could, you know,
Speaker 5: use a bump in production and get themselves up at
Speaker 5: the top here.
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm just surprised, you know, that it took them
Speaker 2: so long to open up plant here in the US,
Speaker 2: so that in the north, in North America. So that
Speaker 2: means that all the harry Bows that I've been eating
Speaker 2: for many years of my life have come from some
Speaker 2: other facility. Was it Germany? Like you know where were they?
Speaker 2: Do we know where they were importing them from? I
Speaker 2: will say just a side note. When I was growing up,
Speaker 2: like and we would have visitors come stay with us
Speaker 2: from outside of the US, like they would always bring Haribo.
Speaker 2: Really yeah, like that maybe they've got him a duty
Speaker 2: free or maybe it was like cheaper in Europe or something,
Speaker 2: but like cool, I was, like I always thought it
Speaker 2: was like a foreign thing as I was growing up,
Speaker 2: But yeah, it turns out, you know, maybe that's why
Speaker 2: I like the gummy bears.
Speaker 6: So much now, honey, I always thought it was a
Speaker 6: Japanese brand for some reason, like only recently learned that.
Speaker 6: And the actually the story of the Horribon name is
Speaker 6: kind of interesting. It's like a a portmanteau, right Dina
Speaker 6: of the founder's name.
Speaker 10: That rightiation of that word, but yes.
Speaker 6: An acronym sort of. It's the first two letters of
Speaker 6: the of Hans Regal and Bond, Germany, right where he
Speaker 6: founded the company, Harry bo so creative.
Speaker 3: Hey, you know what, I'm always curious and it makes
Speaker 3: me think of the Island of Misfit Toys, you know,
Speaker 3: the Christmas Special but those irregular bears. There's only small percentage.
Speaker 3: But what happens to them, Like I don't mind if
Speaker 3: it doesn't have an ear or something like what happens and.
Speaker 10: What they never they never leave the plant? I know
Speaker 10: it was, Actually it was.
Speaker 5: It did feel like the Island of Misfit Toy seeing
Speaker 5: the band where they land. But it's actually pretty amazing
Speaker 5: that it's only that it's less than one percent of production.
Speaker 10: But yeah, I mean, I know I should have just
Speaker 10: been like, you know what, I'll take me.
Speaker 6: I did try to get Dina to like, you know,
Speaker 6: get an employee to admit that they've been snacking off.
Speaker 9: The reject their pile, but.
Speaker 6: They were too professional. I guess, okay, Dina.
Speaker 2: What goes into a got me bear?
Speaker 10: It is not very surprising.
Speaker 5: It's mostly like sugar and gelatine and they get sprayed
Speaker 5: with their you know, waxes and oils, et cetera, to
Speaker 5: make sure that they don't stick together.
Speaker 10: But it was pretty amazing that they said.
Speaker 5: The recipe hasn't changed in more than twenty five years,
Speaker 5: and that so as a as a food reporter who's
Speaker 5: been on this beat for some time now, that's just
Speaker 5: incredible that that's how long they've been sticking with the
Speaker 5: same thing, especially after the supply chain challenges during COVID
Speaker 5: because a lot of companies were changing recipes at that
Speaker 5: time because they just couldn't get what they were used to.
Speaker 10: But they've been doing the same thing for more than
Speaker 10: twenty five years.
Speaker 3: It is just wild. Like I'm obsessed with watching these pictures. Sorry,
Speaker 3: I'm getting a little distracted here. What was it? I
Speaker 3: wanted to ask you, Laura, like, as you read the
Speaker 3: story and you guys went through it, like, what was
Speaker 3: the biggest thing that jumped out for you, and it
Speaker 3: just kind of blew your mind.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I think it just goes back to
Speaker 6: that kind of hilarious tension that Dina found in the story.
Speaker 6: You know, as journalists were always looking for what's gonna
Speaker 6: draw a reader in. You know, it's not just the pictures,
Speaker 6: but it is kind of this like just contrast between
Speaker 6: the rainbow colored candies that we all love and this
Speaker 6: kind of highly regimented production process. I also thought it
Speaker 6: was really interesting you did ask Horrbo if they had
Speaker 6: considered getting in, you know, speaking of what adults like
Speaker 6: for children, into the cannabis of gummy market, the weed
Speaker 6: gummy market, and they had actually contemplated that. It sounded like,
Speaker 6: do you know, what did they tell you about that?
Speaker 5: So I would say, I don't know if they contemplated
Speaker 5: it internally in any real way. My guess is probably not.
Speaker 5: But they had the answer ready, so certainly my guess
Speaker 5: is they've been asked before and it was no, no,
Speaker 5: This is not like they're not looking to make anything
Speaker 5: functional or anything along those lines. This would also narrow
Speaker 5: the consumer base. This is just supposed to be like
Speaker 5: a treat you know, just like something to enjoy, and
Speaker 5: they actually also differentiated between like they would say like.
Speaker 10: It's a treat, not a snack.
Speaker 5: I mean, I would say for me in the past
Speaker 5: couple of weeks working on this story, it's it's been
Speaker 5: a little bit of both.
Speaker 10: But they're really focused on just making like gummies that
Speaker 10: make people happy.
Speaker 5: They're not trying to you know, displace anything or be
Speaker 5: medicine or you know, I.
Speaker 4: Will say too.
Speaker 6: I mean they were really you know as as they
Speaker 6: have every right to be, like very protective right of
Speaker 6: certain parts of the process, and certainly like the you know,
Speaker 6: full recipe behind the gummy bears and sort of some
Speaker 6: of the precision, you know, technologies that they're using. That
Speaker 6: was really interesting to me too. Just get thinking, getting
Speaker 6: inside the mind of you know, the gummy CEOs and
Speaker 6: the sort of you know, competitive aspect of this, the
Speaker 6: big the big you know candy makers they're up against.
Speaker 2: Do you know, we only have about twenty seconds left.
Speaker 2: But were there any fans or like groupies outside the factory,
Speaker 2: Like do they have like a company store where you
Speaker 2: can buy them there?
Speaker 5: No, but they did have this like V double like
Speaker 5: like fake v W Harribo van kind of thing that you.
Speaker 10: Could take pictures in front of, which I.
Speaker 5: Enjoyed and took some pictures in front of them, so they
Speaker 5: had It was really out in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 5: I mean, sorry to a pleasant prairie, but it was
Speaker 5: like a two hour drive from Chicago, and it was
Speaker 5: not an easily accessible plant.
Speaker 3: And you're still eating them and snacking on them, so
Speaker 3: you didn't get turned off by seeing so many, which
Speaker 3: is really had a while.
Speaker 10: Not even a little bit. Oh my god, I'm eating
Speaker 10: them more than.
Speaker 3: I'm all right, guys, thank you so much. Danish Anka
Speaker 3: Luwer plus, thank you so much took out this story.
Speaker 3: It's a good one.
Speaker 10: I'm brothering my.
Speaker 6: Journal.
Speaker 4: Now about you?
Speaker 7: Let me drive?
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, please go drive, honey, please, how do
Speaker 2: the riding gravels?
Speaker 3: Let's wait, I want to drive.
Speaker 4: It's a good question.
Speaker 1: This is the drive to the Globes dot.
Speaker 6: Com for me.
Speaker 10: I think we'll buy around.
Speaker 1: Yoga don on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 3: All right, everybody, I do you want to mention a
Speaker 3: headline crossing the Bloomberg terminal. US regulators are preparing to
Speaker 3: introduce a plan to require that banks tap the Federal
Speaker 3: Reserves discount window at least once a year to reduce
Speaker 3: this stigma and ensure lenders are ready for troubled times.
Speaker 3: We talk about that when they're stressed within the financial
Speaker 3: system or tightening, if you will, and that is looked
Speaker 3: often if someone does it, that maybe there's concerns. So
Speaker 3: this looks like that the FIT is looking to do this.
Speaker 3: Our regulators are looking to get banks to do this
Speaker 3: so that there is again no stigma when you do well.
Speaker 2: In the meantime, I want to talk a little bit
Speaker 2: about the equity markets and specifically a handful of stocks
Speaker 2: because our next guest fund beating just about everyone in
Speaker 2: its category in the past one year, Carol. The Rational
Speaker 2: Dynamic Brands Fund invests in a basket of company stocks
Speaker 2: with attractive and leading brands names such as Amazon, Live, Nation, Costco,
Speaker 2: and Microsoft.
Speaker 3: All right, so let's get to it. Back with us
Speaker 3: as Eric Clark, He's portfolio manager at Rational Dynamic Brands Fund.
Speaker 3: He joins us on Zoom from San Diego as we
Speaker 3: drive to the clothes on this Thursday. Eric, good to
Speaker 3: have you back with us. Happy New Year. We've been
Speaker 3: looking at your portfolio. We always love because you talk brands,
Speaker 3: but based on Bloomberg data, yet I think around thirty
Speaker 3: four stocks at the end of last year, Microsoft, Meta, Apple,
Speaker 3: Alphabet in the fun Top Holding Amazon. You did some
Speaker 3: selling at the end of last year, Disney, Ali Baba
Speaker 3: sd Lauder Regeneron talk to us about first of all,
Speaker 3: the strategy at the end of the year. Was it
Speaker 3: just selling some big decliners, pocketing some gains, some tax
Speaker 3: reasons why the selling first?
Speaker 11: Yeah, exactly, and happy New Year to everybody too. You know,
Speaker 11: if you have some good gains and you want to
Speaker 11: be as tax efficient as possible, then you harvest some
Speaker 11: losses along the way.
Speaker 2: That kind of build up.
Speaker 11: So when you do take some gains, they're they're not
Speaker 11: as meaningful from a cap gains perspective. And that's just
Speaker 11: really what that was.
Speaker 2: So do you plan on getting back into any of
Speaker 2: those companies that Carol mentioned Disney, Celsius. I mean, Celsia's
Speaker 2: hard to find a time when in the last few
Speaker 2: years when that's been a declining stock. I mean, the
Speaker 2: performance over the last fe years has been absolutely incredible.
Speaker 2: Are you planning to get into any of those.
Speaker 11: Celsius is always on the radar, it's a wild, wild
Speaker 11: stock times, but I think it's you know, it's got
Speaker 11: some more upside. It's just very volatile and stay Lauder
Speaker 11: is intriguing. But I need to see one data point
Speaker 11: that says they're getting back on the right track. And
Speaker 11: they're so tethered to China and China just just can't
Speaker 11: seem to get off the mat for a variety of reasons.
Speaker 11: So that we're you know, it's on the list along
Speaker 11: with PayPal too, but we haven't jumped into any of
Speaker 11: those names just yet.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a STEI a lot of Asia Pacific five point
Speaker 3: two billion revenues of twenty twenty three, so that's just
Speaker 3: slightly below Europe, the Middle East, in Africa, so yeah,
Speaker 3: the big overseas. Hey, having said that, all right, so
Speaker 3: let's go to where you are all in Amazon, your
Speaker 3: top holding looks like you added a little bit to
Speaker 3: it maybe end of the year, Live Nation two at
Speaker 3: the end of the year, these two continue to be favorite.
Speaker 3: So let's start with Amazon, Eric, why is this your
Speaker 3: top holding? Why do you continue to like it? What's
Speaker 3: your strategy for when you add or pull back a little?
Speaker 1: Sure?
Speaker 11: I mean, we've always loved Amazon, we've owned it the
Speaker 11: entire time. But when they go through these big spending cycles,
Speaker 11: and this last one was the most epic of all time,
Speaker 11: probably in relative and absolute terms, the stock tends to lag.
Speaker 11: And they essentially built a ups over the last three years,
Speaker 11: which is pretty astonishing. They did a lot of hiring
Speaker 11: and now they're starting to monetize that logistics spend, allowing
Speaker 11: us to order more from Amazon more frequently, which gives
Speaker 11: them better profitability. And you know, the retail business kind
Speaker 11: of gets ignored. It's still something like four hundred billion
Speaker 11: or something in revenue, and everybody only focuses on AWS
Speaker 11: and the cloud initiatives so detail.
Speaker 2: So it makes sense that people focused on.
Speaker 11: Absolutely, but if you think about it, the real look,
Speaker 11: I look at the retail business, it's kind of like
Speaker 11: a costco's it's actually worth two costcos. So when you
Speaker 11: know high volume, low margins, great business, high brand relevancy.
Speaker 11: So the thesis is Amazon has lag for three years,
Speaker 11: which is very rare anyway, and there's some mean reversion
Speaker 11: just in a great business as long as it stays
Speaker 11: really relevant and it has the AWS will re accelerate
Speaker 11: with AI et cetera. The retail business is doing just
Speaker 11: fine getting back to profitability, better net incomes, the stock
Speaker 11: will recover that his historically what's happened so plus the
Speaker 11: ad business, etc. I mean, they just have a lot
Speaker 11: of levers to pull.
Speaker 3: Well, it's that whole idea in terms of the retail sale.
Speaker 3: Like you think about what Walmart right build a business
Speaker 3: out of selling a lot of stuff with pretty low margin,
Speaker 3: probably most of it or a lot of it. So
Speaker 3: it's kind of interesting, but you're right, I mean we
Speaker 3: kind of ignore that business. As Tim said, though the
Speaker 3: profitable business aws, but nonetheless they still a lot of
Speaker 3: stuff increasingly, so everybody's go to is Amazon when it
Speaker 3: comes to retail Live Nation. What's the strategy on this
Speaker 3: one and why you believes it's a buy and you
Speaker 3: continue to like it?
Speaker 11: Yeah, I mean along with Expedia too. I mean we
Speaker 11: like the experiences over the goods theme. I think people,
Speaker 11: you know, we over consume goods and we've just been
Speaker 11: continuously getting out, eating, out, going on vacation, et cetera.
Speaker 11: And you know, something happened with a lot of companies
Speaker 11: through the pandemic, particularly in the travel and the entertainment category.
Speaker 11: They were forced to get really lean and really fit
Speaker 11: from an operational perspective, and so those will pay dividends
Speaker 11: that just better profitability, better margins, better free cash flow,
Speaker 11: will pay dividends over the years because they're not going
Speaker 11: to revert to that lower margin profile if they have
Speaker 11: good brand love, if the category, the spending category is
Speaker 11: still really popular, and we have seen no evidence of
Speaker 11: a slowdown in entertainment and events around the world, and
Speaker 11: so Live Nation is just a better business than they
Speaker 11: once were, and the demand is still super strong, and
Speaker 11: the stock doesn't reflect it at all. So we added
Speaker 11: to it today on this little dip. I think it's
Speaker 11: gift down here under ninety bucks.
Speaker 3: I will say nine percent. Afloat is shorted right now,
Speaker 3: so there's some folks betting big time against it. We
Speaker 3: want to ask you about Envidio.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we got a minute left, Eric. We were shocked
Speaker 2: to see no in Vidia in the portfolio in the fund.
Speaker 2: What's going on here?
Speaker 1: Why?
Speaker 2: Why not?
Speaker 6: You know what?
Speaker 2: We love?
Speaker 11: We love Nvidia, the AI story.
Speaker 3: It's up fifteen this year.
Speaker 11: Yeah, and they and they've done it without us, sadly.
Speaker 11: We just you know, it was resting and then it
Speaker 11: kind of broke out. Basically the first week of the year,
Speaker 11: and we just didn't jump on it. But you know,
Speaker 11: in Vidio is going to give us an another shot.
Speaker 11: It's just such a wild child. It's it's I I'm
Speaker 11: not unsure that that this pull forward of AI won't
Speaker 11: be reflected in Earning's disappointment over the next couple of quarters.
Speaker 11: But listen, we've we had great returns last year and
Speaker 11: we and we didn't known in Vidia barely at all.
Speaker 11: So yeah, you know, we have a lot of names
Speaker 11: that we really love that we think have some great upside.
Speaker 3: It's up another one point seven percent?
Speaker 1: Is there?
Speaker 3: Would you buy it a pullback? And what's the level
Speaker 3: right now? Five sixty nine change? Just fifteen seconds here?
Speaker 3: Would you buy it up?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 11: Probably, yeah, Yeah, we'd love to We'd love to buy
Speaker 11: it probably, you know, eight percent or more, which you
Speaker 11: know that thing moves around like crazy. It could be
Speaker 11: in two days.
Speaker 3: All right, Really, really well done. Love love talking names
Speaker 3: with you. I'm so appreciate it. Eric Clark, of course,
Speaker 3: portfolio manage at Rational Dynamic Brands fun on Zoom from
Speaker 3: San Diego has fun by the way down a little
Speaker 3: bit here today at Corinebor Bloomberg Data, but up about
Speaker 3: twenty eight percent in the past one year, so good
Speaker 3: to check in with him.
Speaker 2: Yeah know in video. Yeah eight percent was that eight
Speaker 2: percent of the beginning early in the going.
Speaker 6: In the year, So we'll see.
Speaker 3: This is Bloomberg.
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