1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: The Butcher of Mons is released weekly absolutely free, but 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: you can binge the entire season now with iHeart True 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: Crime Plus exclusively on Apple Podcasts. You'll also get ad 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: free listening and exclusive bonus episodes. So head to Apple 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: Podcasts search iHeart True Crime Plus and subscribe today. 6 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 2: The views and opinions expressing this podcast are solely those 7 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,520 Speaker 2: of the podcast's author or individuals participating in the podcast, 8 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 2: and do not represent those of iHeartMedia, Tenderfoot TV, or 9 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 2: their employees. This podcast also contains subject matter which may 10 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 2: not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. 11 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 3: Madame Monsieur moncis who I'm Ladies and gentlemen. Good evening 12 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 3: in Mont's The investigation of the serial killer could be 13 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 3: about to reach a conclusion. After a warrant was served 14 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 3: today in the region of Mons, a suspect was arrested 15 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 3: and is being interrogated at the Justice Palace by the 16 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 3: investigating judge in charge of the investigation. For the moment, 17 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 3: authorities are refusing to confirm the arrest. Information is slowly 18 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 3: filtering through and we know that following the identification of 19 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 3: one of the victims of The Butcher of Mons, things 20 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 3: seem to be moving fast. The prosecutor remains very discreet. 21 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 3: This morning, he refused to divulge the name of the 22 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 3: victim in question. 23 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 4: A carefully mysteriously covetu de. 24 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 5: Disappearance of a woman from mont. 25 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 6: The condition of the victims was sickening. 26 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 7: And the question remains, where is the killer? 27 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: From Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts, I'm Your Host Matt 28 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: Graves and This is le manstre Season two. The Butcher 29 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: of Moss April twenty fourth, nineteen ninety seven, The public 30 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: breathed a collective sigh of relief when a man named 31 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: Leopold Bogart was arrested in charge with the murder of 32 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: his girlfriend Natalie Godard, the latest victim of the Butcher 33 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: of Moss, who disappeared roughly a month earlier. You'll recall 34 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 1: from episode two that on the day Natali disappeared, she 35 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 1: and a group of friends attended a peaceful protest in 36 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: Moss called the White March for victims of the du 37 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: True Affair. After the march, she and her boyfriend Leopold 38 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 1: went partying with friends, and Natalie was last seen in 39 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: front of a fast food restaurant a week after her disappearance. 40 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: Her torso was found on the side of a road 41 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: named the Path of Worry. Her head and other body 42 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: parts were found off of Dump Road and Saint Semforian Street. 43 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: Natalie was never reported missing, not even by Leopold, which 44 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: certainly raised suspicions. When she turned up murdered. After her disappearance, 45 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,959 Speaker 1: police were unable to locate Leopold, further raising their suspicions 46 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: about his involvement. But there was a reason that Leopold 47 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: was hard to locate. Nicknamed Legiton or the Gypsy, Leopold 48 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 1: came from a family of traveling people, often referred to 49 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: as gypsies. It was a rough life full of internessing, quarrels, 50 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: and violence. In the same year as his arrest, it 51 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: was reported that his brother was murdered by his cousin 52 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: with a shotgun in a deadly dispute. Leopold was known 53 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: as a tough guy who lived off the grid, so 54 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: it's not surprising that police had a hard time tracking 55 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: him down. They suspected him of being on the run 56 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: since Natalie's disappearance, and when finally they caught up to him, 57 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: police found several incriminating elements, including blood sparrow on some 58 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: of his clothes. Here's the Attorney General from the time, 59 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: Claude Michaud. 60 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 4: Just after the disappearance of Natalie Goddart. We thought that 61 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 4: he had fled. We understood that he had shaved his mustache, 62 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 4: and we believed that he'd burned the clothes of Natalie. 63 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 4: There were a series of elements that led the police 64 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 4: and the investigating judge with good reason to suspect his involvement. 65 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: I spoke with a lawyer who represented Leopold Bogart at 66 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: the time. Her name is Celine Paris and she's still 67 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: practicing in Mars. 68 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 6: In the spring of nineteen ninety seven, the city of 69 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 6: Mons was shocked and haunted about a series of absolutely 70 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 6: macabre discoveries. They discovered trash bags full of dismembered female body. 71 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 5: Parts of Montchevsim White. 72 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 6: Yes, it was some time in March or April. I 73 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 6: had been a lawyer for only six months, and one 74 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 6: evening a client I had previously defended for a trivial 75 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 6: offense called me from the prison and said Maco and 76 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 6: they showed me a picture of my girlfriend and asked 77 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 6: me where I hid her head. And at that point 78 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,280 Speaker 6: I understood right away why he'd been arrested, and then 79 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 6: I went to see him in prison. 80 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: I asked her if she knows why Leopold suddenly left 81 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: Moss right after Natalie's disappearance and what led police to 82 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: suspect him. He got into some. 83 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:27,719 Speaker 6: Sort of fight that night or the day after. It 84 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 6: was after that that he decided to return to his family. 85 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 6: They found this suspicious, and also the fact that before 86 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 6: going back to his family, he had freshened up a bit, 87 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 6: He had a shave and got a haircut, and these 88 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 6: elements were apparently what prompted the investigating judge to order 89 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 6: the arrest of my client. But you have to take 90 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 6: into consideration that they didn't have any other leads and 91 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 6: were desperate, which precipitated the arrest. 92 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 1: Leopold maintained his innocence, stating that he had nothing to 93 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: do as Natalis's disappearance or murder. He cleimed the blood 94 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:00,799 Speaker 1: found on his clothing was from a fight, and later 95 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: testing proved that it wasn't a match with any of 96 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: the identified victims. Additional investigations failed to link Leopold to 97 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: the crimes, with a negative blood test and no further evidence. 98 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: Police became convinced that he wasn't their man. Leopold was 99 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: released two weeks after his arrest. I'm innocent. 100 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 3: How does it fuse to be free? 101 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 8: Good because they put an innocent guy in prison? 102 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:26,239 Speaker 3: Are you disgusted with Of course? 103 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: Yes? 104 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 3: Why did they. 105 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 8: Come out to see anything else? 106 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 1: I want to go back to my family. 107 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 3: They didn't have any proof again for you, excuse. 108 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: Me, I'm going home. I'm leaving. The public's brief sigh 109 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: of relief was over and the terror came flooding back. 110 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: Some of the body parts of the three identified victims 111 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: hadn't been found, and there was a sense of uneasiness 112 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: knowing that there were likely more remains discarded around mass 113 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: The pace of almost daily developments slowed, the tension remained high. 114 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: These continued searching on the ground and from the air. 115 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: Then news of a new connection broke. 116 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 9: Dinu Vodona feldudipas. 117 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 3: New information regarding the affair of the butcher of Monts, 118 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 3: who likely murdered a fourth victim. A torso that was 119 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 3: found in the region of Valenciennes in France in January 120 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety six was identified by French investigators. 121 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: It was January twenty first, nineteen ninety six, six months 122 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: before any of the victims of the Butcher of Mass 123 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: were reported missing, a hiker made a gruesome discovery along 124 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: the banks of the Escot River in France, thirty miles 125 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: downriver from Moss. French police attended the scene to find 126 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: a dismembered pelvis. It had been cut at the belly 127 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: and just above the knees. It was the pelvis and 128 00:07:56,360 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 1: midsection of a female body, including the upper parts of 129 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: Authorities had no idea who the victim was, and without 130 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: a pattern of additional murders to link this crime to, 131 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: it would take more than one and a half years 132 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 1: to identify the victim. After trash bags full of body 133 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: parts started appearing in Moss in nineteen ninety seven, police 134 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: aggressively followed up on all unresolved missing persons cases, as 135 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: well as any other discoveries of unidentified remains in southern 136 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: Belgium and northern France. By comparing DNA extracted from the 137 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: pelvis found in France with genetic material from family members 138 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: of missing persons, it was established that the victim was 139 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: Carmelina Rousseau, a forty two year old mother of three 140 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: from mass She had been reported missing shortly after her 141 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 1: disappearance the previous year, but her case had remained unsolved. 142 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: Her family and friends couldn't think of any reason at 143 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: all why someone would want to hurt her. Carmelina Rousseau 144 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: was originally from France. After meeting her husband, the couple 145 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:13,119 Speaker 1: moved to Moss in Belgium and started a family. Carmelina 146 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 1: was devoted to her loved ones, and when she moved 147 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: to Belgium, her parents followed her to be closer to 148 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: their three grandchildren. Sadly, after her husband passed away, she 149 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 1: found herself a widow, raising three children and taking care 150 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: of aging parents. Life was difficult, and she did what 151 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: she could to get by living in social housing and 152 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: working in various small jobs to make ends meet. By 153 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: January nineteen ninety six, her son found himself serving time 154 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: at a prison in Moss. On January fourth, Carmelina went 155 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 1: to visit him. Afterward, she made her way to a supermarket, 156 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: following an eastward route that took her through the city 157 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: and passed the Central train station Round zero for the 158 00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 1: US other disappearances, The last sighting of Carmelina Rousseau was 159 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: that evening January fourth, at around six pm at a 160 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: supermarket less than three miles from the train station. She 161 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: was never seen alive again. I spoke with the only 162 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: remaining lawyer representing a civil party in this affair. His 163 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: name is Frank di Cippoli, and he represents the Rousseau family. 164 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 1: Frank started off by reminding me, or maybe I should 165 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: say warning me, that I'm investigating a case that's still active. 166 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 8: So you are making a podcast about an affair that 167 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 8: isn't even yet finished. It's not a cold case because 168 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 8: the investigation is still open, so it's particular you're actually 169 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 8: within that investigation. 170 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 1: Belgium and most countries in Central Europe, for that matter, haven't, 171 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: for the most part, experienced the phenomenon of active investigation 172 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: pod casts. It would be an understatement to say that 173 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: authorities don't welcome such initiatives. But Frank is a nice guy, 174 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: and as a lawyer, I think he takes a position 175 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: that more scrutiny is a good thing. He explained how 176 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: he became involved in the case Javet Cleonqui. 177 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 8: I had a client who was in the prison of Monts, 178 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 8: who was actually the son of Carmelina Russo. And it 179 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 8: was after investigators had identified Carmelina Russo after finding part 180 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 8: of her body. They had suspicions in the beginning about 181 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 8: her son, who was in prison, and he was in 182 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 8: prison for crimes involving violence, and so investigators thought maybe 183 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 8: he had something to do with her murder. And at 184 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 8: the time, they thought her death had happened at a 185 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 8: time when her son wasn't in prison. So they came 186 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 8: to the prison and while the problem is that they 187 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 8: didn't pull any punches, they were very direct and they 188 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 8: showed the sun pictures of his mother, pictures of his 189 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,839 Speaker 8: mother's couldaver and he learned about the death of his 190 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 8: mother while he was in prison. It was actually then 191 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 8: that he learned that his mother was dead and that 192 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 8: she'd actually been dismembered. 193 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 7: On prison. 194 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 8: And on top of that, he felt right away that 195 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,719 Speaker 8: he was being treated as a suspect, and so then 196 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 8: he just went crazy. He ransacked his entire cell. I mean, 197 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 8: the guards had to come in and suppress him, and 198 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 8: then they realized quite quickly that he didn't have anything 199 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 8: to do with the murder. And then he called me. 200 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 8: He called me to explain all of this, and because 201 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 8: he was now facing disciplinary measures because he'd rebelled so 202 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 8: aggressively when they gave him the news, and that could 203 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 8: have consequences on his sentence. And he explained all of 204 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 8: this to me, and that's how I got involved with 205 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 8: this whole affair. It wasn't like the usual case where 206 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 8: a family comes to see you because there's an investigation 207 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 8: about the death of someone close. No, we were directly 208 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 8: in the heat of the action via someone who was 209 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 8: immediately considered as a suspect and then it was quickly 210 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 8: realized that he was actually a victim. 211 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,199 Speaker 1: Frank Gisippole went on to represent the children of Carmelina 212 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 1: Rousseau in the butcher of Man's case, ensuring their mother's 213 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 1: murder gets the attention it deserves. Frank is supportive of 214 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 1: our work, but very conscious of something sacrisanct in Belgian 215 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 1: law called les secret instruction, meaning that he's not allowed 216 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: to share the case file or any confidential information related 217 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: to the case. As the last remaining lawyer representing a 218 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: civil party, he plays an important role in this affair. 219 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:58,079 Speaker 1: For example, if new evidence is discovered, he can request 220 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: additional duties of the investigating Jim, who can then order 221 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 1: police to carry out further investigations. In short, this means 222 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: that Frank could act as a direct line between our 223 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: work and Belgian authorities. It's believed that Carmeline Russeau was 224 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: the first victim of the butcher of Monts. It wasn't 225 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: until after three other victims were discovered and identified that 226 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: police were able to link her murder to this case. 227 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: Just like the other victims, Carmelin Ne Russeau was known 228 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: to frequent establishments around the central train station, including the 229 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: hotel and bar Le Metropol. The investigative journalist Frederic Laure explains. 230 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 7: Carmelin Russeau is probably the first victim of the passeo 231 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 7: of montm She had a quite normal life, you know, 232 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 7: and she even worked in an insurance company before disappearing. 233 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 7: She didn't have mental and social problems like the others. 234 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 7: She had a main job, she had her family, a 235 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 7: place to live, and apart from that, she had a 236 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 7: side job. She was selling lagerie in different places around 237 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 7: the mont station, especially in the bars of the night 238 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 7: close to the station of Monts. You know those places 239 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 7: where people, especially men of course go there to meet 240 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 7: girls and especially prostituted. And we also know that she 241 00:15:54,600 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 7: used to go to the Hotel Metropol and then there 242 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 7: she met different people, but also some girls to sell 243 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 7: them a laxurie. So now we have four victim and 244 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 7: we are sure that they have one thing in common. 245 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 7: They all spend time in the area of the station 246 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:25,239 Speaker 7: and they wear old customers of the Ottel Metropoli. 247 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: Carmelina's case is similar to the other victims in many ways, 248 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: but there's a distinct difference. Her remains were found nearly 249 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: thirty miles away from Mons, in neighboring France. You recall 250 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: from the last episode that I visited various sites in 251 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: Mons where victims body parts were discovered. So we just 252 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: drove up to this bridge. We're on a street that's 253 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: called Worry Way, Shmann, Did I get you to Worry Street? 254 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: And it's right over a river that's called the River 255 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: of Hate. So what you have here is we're behind 256 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: the train station, not very far. And if I'm on 257 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: this bridge, and if I look down about two hundred 258 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: meters in front of me, I see where the trunk 259 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: of a body was found. In July of nineteen ninety six, 260 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 1: turned out to be Bone. And then if I turn 261 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: around and look a little bit to my left, I 262 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 1: can see where the trunk of another body was discovered. 263 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: This was on the twenty fourth of March, and this 264 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:31,120 Speaker 1: was Natari Goda. And Morgan has an interesting theory that 265 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: he thinks that all of the big body parts were 266 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: dropped here into this river that I'm looking at right now, 267 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: And I can see that the river is slightly flowing 268 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: in the direction that I'm looking, which is away from 269 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,640 Speaker 1: Mons and towards France, where the trunk of the body 270 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: of Carmelina Russo was found. So I'm standing in the 271 00:17:54,280 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 1: place where the killer certainly always came to dispose of 272 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 1: the larger body parts of the victims. Given where Carmelina 273 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: Rousseau's torso is found down river, it's highly likely that 274 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 1: it was dumped into the water here in Moss and 275 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: that it flowed down river towards France. Water levels are 276 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: higher in January compared to July when Martin Bone's torso 277 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: got stuck in an eddy nearby, so it would make 278 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: sense that the disposal of Carmelina's torso in January made 279 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: its way further down the river like most of the 280 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: other victims. Her head has still never been found to 281 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 1: this day. It's horrifying to think that there are likely 282 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: several body parts, including the heads, of victims, hidden somewhere 283 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: here near to where I'm standing right now, or even worse, 284 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:47,640 Speaker 1: being kept as trophies by a twisted serial killer. There's 285 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,439 Speaker 1: something particular about Carmelina's remains that makes her case different 286 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 1: from other victims. This is graphic material, so listener discretion 287 00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:00,400 Speaker 1: is advised. The torsos and body parts of the three 288 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: later victims were cut with relative precision. Cuts were made 289 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: along key articulations, which would have minimized blood loss and contamination. 290 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 1: In fact, police initially focused their suspect profile on someone 291 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: with experience in domains like surgery or butchery. However, Carmelina 292 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: Rousseau's torso was severed at the level of her navel. 293 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: This would have created a gruesome mess for whoever carried 294 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: it out. Amputating a torso at the navel would cause 295 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: significant loss of bodily fluid and probable discharge of organs. 296 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: None of the killer's subsequent victims were dismembered this way. 297 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: Based on the date of her disappearance, we believe that 298 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: Carmelina was the butcher of Moss's first known victim. It's 299 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,119 Speaker 1: probable that he learned from her abduction and murder and 300 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 1: adjusted his method of dismemberment and disposal of future victims. 301 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 1: I was able to speak with a renowned Belgian profiler, 302 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: doctor Danielle Zuguer, who actually trained Roy Hazelwood, one of 303 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: the FBI's pioneers in behavioral analysis. I asked you about 304 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: the significance of a serial killer's first murder. 305 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,719 Speaker 9: So we can learn a lot with the first crime, 306 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:18,400 Speaker 9: because the first crime occurs often near a comfort zone, 307 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 9: so you can define already an area where you could 308 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 9: find a perpetrator. Of course, his modest operandi, which will 309 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 9: change with the time, because he will make some progress 310 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 9: each time he's committing a crime. He will learn from 311 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 9: his errors, so he will make some progress too, so 312 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 9: it gets more complicated to find him. This is why 313 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 9: the first crime is so interesting and important for investigation. 314 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 9: With the experience, you know, criminals are like us. With experience, 315 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 9: we get better at what we do, so it's the 316 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 9: same for them. This is why you know the coach 317 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 9: can be perhaps a bit difficult for the first crime 318 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 9: or the control of the victim or the acting out 319 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 9: of the fantasy is not quite the way he would 320 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 9: like it to be, and also the disposal of the body. 321 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 9: He will get better with the other crimes. And the 322 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 9: first crime also shows if you have a very organized 323 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 9: offender or disorganized one. And it's important because it gives 324 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 9: you clues about who he is, how he's functioning, where 325 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 9: perhaps you can find him. And the more organized he is, 326 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 9: the more distance is willing to go to find victim. 327 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,679 Speaker 9: There can be a trigger or not. When there is 328 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 9: no trigger, it means that you know fantasy has become 329 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 9: so loaded that it needs to come out. But there 330 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 9: can be a trigger, and it can be a disappointment, frustration, anger, revert, 331 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 9: all kinds of motives. Really, it's the first time where 332 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:10,680 Speaker 9: he's acting out his fantasy, so you can understand what 333 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 9: is his fantasy. Of course you can understand it with 334 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 9: the later crimes too, but sometimes make some mistakes. But yeah, 335 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:25,239 Speaker 9: first crimes are always very important because they give you 336 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 9: the maximum of clues. 337 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: Doctor Zuker's point about early mistakes is interesting. Indeed, we 338 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 1: believe that Carmelina Rousso was his first victim, but was 339 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: she his first attempt. It's relatively common for serial killers 340 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: early efforts to be unsuccessful. A number of infamous monsters 341 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: like Ted Bundy or David Berkowitz aka the Son of Sam, 342 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: or Gary Ridgeway aka the Green River Killer, who failed 343 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: at their first attempts. We believe that there are likely 344 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: other women who may have had close calls with the 345 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 1: Butcher of Moss, perhaps without even knowing how close they 346 00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:03,400 Speaker 1: came to meeting similar fates as the other victims. As 347 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: we attempt to narrow down a profile of the perpetrator, 348 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: I spoke with the investigative journalist Frederick Law about what 349 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 1: he thinks we can assume about the killer at this point. 350 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 7: Based on what we know now, I think we can 351 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 7: drew several assumptions about the killer. First of all, we 352 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 7: think that he was living and operating in Monts. If 353 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 7: you think about it, it made no sense kill someone 354 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 7: outside the city and then dismember them, and then to 355 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:41,640 Speaker 7: drive into Monts and dumb them. A second assumption is 356 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 7: that we firmly believe that he had a car, because 357 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:54,199 Speaker 7: if you visit the different sites where the bodies were found, 358 00:23:54,720 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 7: you immediately understand that he needed a car. And then 359 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 7: a third assumption is we believe finally that he must 360 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 7: frequent the area around the railway station, and he probably 361 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 7: knew all the victims. They had to know him a 362 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 7: little bit at least. Remember the pack of cigarettes at 363 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 7: Jacqueline's house. Her sister Georgette was firmly convinced that it 364 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 7: belongs to the perpetrator. Also, Natalie was finally seen just 365 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 7: in front of the train station, and if someone had 366 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 7: taken her by force, it would have been noticed. If 367 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,479 Speaker 7: we look at all of these assumptions, it narrows the 368 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 7: profile of the perpetrator. 369 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: You recall from the last episode that we tracked down 370 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: a woman who were calling Giselle. We confirm that she 371 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: was contacted by police because her DNA was a possible 372 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,679 Speaker 1: match with an unknown DNA profile that was found at 373 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: one of the dumb sites. The unknown profile was from 374 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: a strand of hair found in one of the fifteen 375 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: trash bags. Giselle told us that in nineteen ninety six 376 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 1: she was living with a community of traveling people on 377 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,120 Speaker 1: the outskirts of Moss. Police took a DNA sample from 378 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: her in twenty twenty three in an attempt to validate 379 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 1: the match, but she never heard back from them. Our 380 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: investigative team has been trying to find out if the 381 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,679 Speaker 1: testing was ever carried out and if so, what the 382 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 1: result was. Unfortunately, the only information that we received is 383 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: that the related case details are all confidential. Like Giselle, 384 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: the suspect who was arrested and subsequently released, Leopold Bogart 385 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: also hails from a family of traveling people. It's an 386 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: interesting possible connection. But is it simply a coincidence or 387 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 1: something more. I asked Giselle if she knew or had 388 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: any connection to Leopold Bogart, but she said she knew 389 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,199 Speaker 1: nothing about him. We investigated further and learned that Leopold's 390 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 1: traveling community was from a different part of the country 391 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: than the community that Giselle was with in nineteen ninety six. 392 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: They appeared to have nothing in common, but through another 393 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: improbable coincidence, I learned that Giselle had once been represented 394 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: by the same lawyer as Leopold Bogart for an entirely 395 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: unrelated matter. As you heard at the top of the episode, 396 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: I tracked down this attorney, named Celene Paris. Towards the 397 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,360 Speaker 1: end of that interview, I asked her about Giselle and Leopold. 398 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: She was also surprised by this coincidence, but didn't remember 399 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: representing Giselle as it was several years ago. She did 400 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,959 Speaker 1: say that she could look into it, but only at 401 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: the request of Gisel, so I put the two of 402 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: them in contact Madame de dit Mord. Selene and Giselle 403 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: were able to connect the dots of their past relationship, 404 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: and after Giselle explained the possible DNA match and lack 405 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: of response by authorities, Selene expressed her willingness to check 406 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: with the district attorney on her behalf. This may be 407 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: the only way for us to break through the confidential 408 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 1: wall regarding this aspect of the case. 409 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 3: This affair is sowing panic in the region of Mons 410 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 3: since the end of March until now fifteen trash bags 411 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 3: containing body parts have been found in places that were 412 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 3: maybe not chosen by chance based on their names. 413 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,679 Speaker 1: Five months into the investigation, authorities now knew that the 414 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 1: Butcher of Moss had been an active serial killer for 415 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: over a year, claiming four known victims. The citizens and 416 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 1: the press only had their imaginations and a set of 417 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: gruesome facts to guide them, and those facts were exceedingly grim, 418 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 1: and news of the dumb site names only serve to 419 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: reinforce the panic. The investigative journalist Frederic Lau recalls covering 420 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: this aspect of the case. 421 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 7: So because of those hevocative names of the places where 422 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 7: the bodies the pieces were discovered, the investigators began to 423 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 7: think that the killer was playing a kind of game. 424 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 7: It almost felt like a treasure hunt. Names like the 425 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 7: River of eight, the path of Rory Damp Road, the 426 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 7: River of Fear. I'm in French, Rudy Bassa, I'm not 427 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 7: sure of the translation, and public discovered this and it 428 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 7: created more fear in the public. 429 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: The translation of Rude Bassa is Pelvis Road. Indeed, the 430 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: names of the dumb sites really felt like more than 431 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: a coincidence, and journalists and psychologists scrambled to establish a 432 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 1: profile of the butcher of mass. 433 00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 3: The serial killer of Mons is a dangerous psychopath, completely 434 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 3: exceptional case in the annals of criminality. Until now, there 435 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 3: have been no examples of serial killers in Western Europe 436 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 3: who dismember their victims. The reference comes from the United States. 437 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 3: Analysts are reduced to theoretical assumptions to determine the psychological 438 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 3: profile of the killer. 439 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 5: We can consider that the profile is someone intelligent, maybe 440 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 5: also someone provocative, who seeks to create sensation because his 441 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 5: techniques are rather extraordinary and exceptional. May be also someone 442 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 5: influenced by all that comes from America and the latest 443 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 5: films that we've seen in movie theaters. 444 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 3: Gipsy psychopaths are generally very sensitive to their image in 445 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 3: the media, which could explain the macabre treasure hunt he's 446 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 3: imposing on investigators by disposing of the sacks in various locations. 447 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 5: He must have a developed sense of narcissism, someone who 448 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 5: likes to watch himself and hear about himself on the 449 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 5: radio and television, knowing that he has him impotence in 450 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 5: the media, he's developing his image and feeding his narcissism. 451 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety one, Jeffrey Dahmer made headlines after being 452 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 1: arrested and accused of killing and dismembering at least seventeen victims. 453 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: Decades before Dahmer, other US serial killers, like the Torso Killer, 454 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: dismembered their victims as well. Right around the same time, 455 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: The Butcher of Moss began as Murdersprey, the American movie 456 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: seven was released in theaters in Europe, starring Brad Pitt 457 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: and Morgan Freeman, who worked together to track down a 458 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: serial killer orchestrating a string of gruesome crimes that left 459 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: behind symbolic clues. Western European media thought that the influence 460 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: of real and fictional American serial killers might be influencing 461 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: the Butcher of Moss. As the spring of nineteen ninety 462 00:30:55,000 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: seven gave way to summer, the gruesome discoveries stopped. Police 463 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: were furiously investigating the case, but since the arrest and 464 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: release of Leopold Bogart, there weren't any strong persons of 465 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: interest on the radar. People began to assume that the 466 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: killer had either decided to stop or was spooked away 467 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: from Moss. Nightlife around the train station came to a 468 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: virtual standstill, and police increased patrols throughout the city to 469 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: strike again, with the city on Hiler would have been Madness. 470 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 3: Janan, a thirty eight year old woman, disappeared two weeks 471 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 3: ago in Mont's. Investigators are exploring a link with the 472 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 3: Butcher of Mon's case in so far as the missing 473 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 3: woman has a similar profile as other victims of the 474 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 3: serial killer. 475 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 10: The scene was completely out of the ordinary and we 476 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 10: had to move quickly and try to determine who was 477 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 10: in the trash bags. 478 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 11: List are now confirming that the body, cut into pieces 479 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 11: and stopped into two plastic garbage bags found in this 480 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 11: slot near the Brooklyn Navy Yard last month is indeed 481 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 11: that of sixty one year old Mary Beale. 482 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 10: Over the years, we continued to work on the case 483 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 10: and interviewed over one thousand people. 484 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: Los America, and then. 485 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 10: At one point we were contacted by the Americans. 486 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 12: The fact that he was in Belgium around the time 487 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 12: of the Monds murders, which remained unsolved but bore many 488 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 12: of the same macabre hallmarks, left many to suspect that 489 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 12: he may have been involved in those as well. 490 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: That's next time on the Monstre. The Monstre is a 491 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: production of tender for TV and iHeart Podcasts, hosted, written, 492 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: and executive produced by me At Graves. Donald Albright and 493 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 1: Payne Lindsay are executive producers on the behalf of Tenderfoot TV, 494 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: with producer Makeup and Vanity Set. Matt Frederick and Trevor 495 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 1: Young are executive producers on the behalf of iHeart Podcasts. 496 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: Original music by Jay Ragsdale, Sound design and master by 497 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: Cooper Skinner. Cover design by Brian McCoy and Trevor Eiler. 498 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: Lea Monstre includes archival audio from Sonnema RTBF Archives. Special 499 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: thanks to Orrin Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, the 500 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 1: Nord Group, and our active investigation team Morgen van Leherberg, 501 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: frederch Loah Xervi de Com and Alan Gardon, as well 502 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 1: as the teams at iHeart Podcasts and Tenderfoot TV. Find 503 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 1: us on social media at Monster Underscore pod. For more 504 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 1: podcasts like le Monstre, search Tenderfoot TV in your podcast app, 505 00:33:49,480 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: or visit tenderfoot dot tv. Ready to keep listening, remember 506 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 1: you can binge the rest of the season right now 507 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,440 Speaker 1: with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription available exclusively on 508 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:13,359 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts Plus. You'll get exclusive bonus episodes and add 509 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,919 Speaker 1: free listening. So head to Apple Podcasts, search iHeart True 510 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,280 Speaker 1: Crime Plus and subscribe today