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Speaker 1: What's up this way up with Angela Yee, Angela Yee,

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Speaker 1: and we are blessed to have a best selling author.

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Speaker 1: And I actually met you at University of Michigan well

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Speaker 1: before that, but I did something we do there, Marcus Collins,

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Speaker 1: author for the Culture, the power behind what we buy,

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Speaker 1: what we do, and who we want to be? All right, So, Marcus,

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Speaker 1: what exactly would you describe your background in because when

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Speaker 1: you read this book, we hear about all the different

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Speaker 1: places where you worked and you're very strategic.

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Speaker 2: So my background has been very diverse. I was an

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Speaker 2: engineer undergrad because I did well in math and science

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Speaker 2: as a kid. And when you're black and you from Detroit,

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Speaker 2: you go in engineering if you do well in math

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Speaker 2: and science. I decided to go into the music business.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if that's well counseled, and which to

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Speaker 2: the music business wrote music didn't do that well. So

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Speaker 2: I went back to school to get my MBA, went

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Speaker 2: out to go work at Apple, and when I was there,

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Speaker 2: I met a guy named Matthew Knowles, Beyonce's father, and

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Speaker 2: he goes, we're familiar this straight this straight. You're engineer,

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Speaker 2: you start a music company, you have an NBA. You

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Speaker 2: work at Apple and you're black fam. You not exist,

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Speaker 2: You're not real, you're unicorning. But no, I'm real. He says, well,

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Speaker 2: you should run digital strategy for Beyonce, Like, oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: I should totally do that. So I ran digital strategy

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Speaker 2: for Beyonce during the im Sashapar Stays ended up going

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Speaker 2: into the world of advertising. Thanks, so Jemin named Steve South.

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Speaker 1: Oh all right, so let's because we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about Steve Stout in a minute. He just did that

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Speaker 1: interview on Club Shaysha. You're also an inducty into the

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Speaker 1: American Advertising Federations Advertising Hall of Achievement and you're a

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Speaker 1: recipient of the Thinkers fifty Radar Distinguished Achievement Award. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so these are big things, and let's start off with

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Speaker 1: your first foray into the music business thanks to Matthew Knowles.

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Speaker 1: And one thing you talk about in your book, because

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Speaker 1: you detail a lot of the experiences and things that

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Speaker 1: you witness, you talk about the difference between the difference

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Speaker 1: between fans and believers. Right, so Beyonce had the be that,

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Speaker 1: but you guys actually tried to start a different group

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Speaker 1: prior to that. So talk about the Beyonce Rods versus

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Speaker 1: the Beehive.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so a part of the job run digital strategy

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Speaker 2: was about moving her offline fan club online, right, And

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Speaker 2: we thought, this is like the days of Facebook and

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Speaker 2: Twitter is doing really well, so this is gonna be

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Speaker 2: easy thing. This is Beyonce moving from the artists to

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Speaker 2: Queen Bee as we know her. And we launched this

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Speaker 2: thing and it just did not really happen, and we're like,

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Speaker 2: what's going on. Why isn't this taken off? Relative to

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Speaker 2: her celebrity means she's still huge, right, And the team

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Speaker 2: saw this little small group of people in the recesses

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Speaker 2: of the Internet who called themselves the Beehive, and they

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Speaker 2: didn't just like Beyonce songs. They subscribed to the same

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Speaker 2: belief as Beyonce did, women's empowerment. And we've known that

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Speaker 2: since Beyonce told us no, no, no, can you pay

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Speaker 2: my bills? Put a ring on it. You ain't gonna

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Speaker 2: break myself, Like She's been all about women's empowerment. And

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Speaker 2: these folks not only do they believe, but they use

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Speaker 2: the music as a way to express their identity. They

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Speaker 2: had their own link go to have their own cultural

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Speaker 2: behavior as we said, those are the folks we should

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Speaker 2: be working with. So we cut bait on the beyonceurage

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Speaker 2: and made the Beehive her official fan club. And I

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Speaker 2: think that has been sort of a rocket fuel to

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Speaker 2: catapult her from being just an artist to be an

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Speaker 2: iconic status. Not unlike the Taylor Swipts of the world.

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Speaker 2: She has so swifties. Right. So these are people who

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Speaker 2: go beyond just being fans, but they are part of

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Speaker 2: a community. They have a shared way of life, a

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Speaker 2: way of seeing the world, and the artists becomes sort

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Speaker 2: of a signifier that are representative of that, much like

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Speaker 2: a plastic doll that we know to be Barbie to

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Speaker 2: mean more than just a plastic doll. Right.

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Speaker 1: They're having their sixty fifth anniversary. I was just posting

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Speaker 1: about Viola Davis. They just did a Barbie of her.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I need to have that. I don't

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Speaker 1: even collect because.

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Speaker 2: It has meaning. It's meaning, and that's what culture really

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Speaker 2: is about. Culture is a meaning making system. It's a

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Speaker 2: way by which we see the world. Because of the

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Speaker 2: way we see the world, we navigate the world accordingly.

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Speaker 2: We buy what we buy, go where we go, marry

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Speaker 2: who we marry, work where we work, vacation wary, vacation,

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Speaker 2: eat where we eat, Bury the dead if we bury

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Speaker 2: the dead. These things are all byproducts of our cultural subscription,

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Speaker 2: and the more we understand that, the more likely we

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Speaker 2: are to tap into it.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting because you guys had to create a fan

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Speaker 1: base for somebody when one did already organically exist, and

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Speaker 1: so the better idea was not to try to push

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Speaker 1: and force this beyondourage on us.

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Speaker 2: It's right to your point, like, you don't make communities,

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Speaker 2: You don't build communities, you facilitate them.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes corporations don't understand that. That's right, right, you

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Speaker 1: know too, So I want to talk Well, let's let's

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Speaker 1: get into so then Steve Stout. Now, Steve Stout just

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Speaker 1: had an interview on Club Shasha with many different viral

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Speaker 1: things happening.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: He talked about Damon Dash. Damon Dash has already responded

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Speaker 1: to what he had to say about him. He talked

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Speaker 1: about fifty cent versus John Rule. He talked about Lebron

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Speaker 1: and Lebron's originally getting an offer for ten million dollars

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Speaker 1: for a sneaker deal and turning it down when he

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Speaker 1: was eighteen years old. I mean a lot of different

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Speaker 1: things that he discussed. Do you feel like now culturally

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Speaker 1: people are wanting to tell these stories and feeling because

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Speaker 1: it used to be I feel like that we kind

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Speaker 1: of held those things to ourselves and it's like a

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Speaker 1: secret society. Things happen in business, you're not supposed to

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Speaker 1: talk about it. But now it's like I feel like,

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Speaker 1: on different podcasts and shows, everybody's telling everything.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's far more transparency this the technology does.

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Speaker 2: It allows us to not only get access to information,

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Speaker 2: but to contribute to the acquisition of information. And you're right, like,

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Speaker 2: back in the day, things were very walled off. You

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Speaker 2: didn't know what happened behind closed doors if you weren't

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Speaker 2: behind those doors, and as a result, people didn't get

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Speaker 2: a lot of access. But transparency is actually quite empowering.

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Speaker 2: It provides a lot of agency people to say, oh,

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Speaker 2: that's how they did it. Now I'm going to navigate

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Speaker 2: it this way. When we hear the stories about Nipsey Hustle,

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Speaker 2: how he made his way to the industry, that empowers

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Speaker 2: so many people who were like I have that idea

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Speaker 2: and I've got rhymes, and I'm really talented and it

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Speaker 2: creates a doorway for them to get in. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean Stout has been along round for a long time,

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Speaker 2: and he is you know, he has lived many lives

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Speaker 2: in many different industries, and he has so much knowledge,

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Speaker 2: institutional knowledge that he shepherd in. I've been the benefit

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Speaker 2: of that, working at Translation for four years and being

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Speaker 2: really close to him. But him providing that information for

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Speaker 2: other people creates, I think, opportunities for people to realize

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Speaker 2: their dreams. I think that's a really powerful thing.

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Speaker 1: And Translationiste Staft's marketing agency. Now, you guys are also

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Speaker 1: responsible for the Brooklyn Nets coming to Brooklyn and the

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Speaker 1: whole campaign that happened there. So talk about those challenges

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Speaker 1: because it was me being from Brooklyn. Y'all definitely targeted

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Speaker 1: people like myself. I was definitely part of that campaign too,

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Speaker 1: by the way. But also we have the New York

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Speaker 1: Knicks in New York, which is an institution, So there

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Speaker 1: were also the battles of the Barclays even existing in

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Speaker 1: Brooklyn and what people from the neighborhood and community thought

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Speaker 1: about that. So discuss what the thinking was behind bringing

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Speaker 1: the Nets from New Jersey to Brooklyn and then creating

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Speaker 1: a fan base or creating a community around that.

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Speaker 2: It was a terribly difficult brief because to your point,

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Speaker 2: Brooklyn Knights, you know, New Yorkers in general, there tends

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Speaker 2: to be an inherent tension between New Jersey and Brooklyn. Right,

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Speaker 2: Any export from brook from New Jersey, New York is like, no,

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Speaker 2: thank you from New Jersey. Oh, you moved to Jersey

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Speaker 2: when you made it exactly exactly, exactly right. So there's

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Speaker 2: an inherent tension there. So Brooklyn Knights weren't really excited

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Speaker 2: about bringing over the Nets. Not only that the Nets

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Speaker 2: was not a winning team, so that's not great.

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Speaker 1: I used to go to the Nets games.

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Speaker 2: It's like they weren't a winning team. And you're building

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Speaker 2: this new edifice in Atlantic Terminal which is upseting a

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Speaker 2: lot of local businesses, a lot of local residents. There

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Speaker 2: were protests, there were documentary.

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Speaker 1: Like there's one house left standing and this person will

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Speaker 1: not move it.

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Speaker 2: It was pretty bad. And the idea was like, well,

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Speaker 2: how do we get people excited about it team that

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Speaker 2: they don't want. So we say, well, let's not focus

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Speaker 2: on the team, let's focus on the people, the community,

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Speaker 2: the culture of Brooklyn. So we focus on Brooklyn Nights

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Speaker 2: and what do we know about Brooklyn Knights. They are

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Speaker 2: the most proud borrow ever. You can't tell a Brooklyn

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Speaker 2: Knight nothing exactly right, right, right? Is Brooklyn in a house.

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Speaker 2: That's a real thing. So we said, well, let's stoke

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Speaker 2: Brooklyn pride. And what we'll do is we'll borrow from

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Speaker 2: the literature, borrow from what we know of the behavioral science.

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Speaker 2: Is a gentleman by the name of Edward Bernez, who's

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Speaker 2: a nephew of Sigmund Freud, the psychologist. He has this

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Speaker 2: idea in propaganda theory that you can unite a people

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Speaker 2: by declaring an enemy of the state, that you can

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Speaker 2: bring people together by saying that those people are against us,

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Speaker 2: let's come together. We see that in local politics today

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Speaker 2: as well. Right, we do admit that that is the

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Speaker 2: entire culture wars. Those people are not us bringing together.

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Speaker 2: So that was the thinking. So we'll pull a page

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Speaker 2: out of out of that book. The idea is that

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Speaker 2: we're going to spark rivalry that already exists between Manhattan

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Speaker 2: Nights and Brooklyn Knights. So everywhere around Brooklyn. You know,

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Speaker 2: we made these declarations that like, look, if you're not

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Speaker 2: with us, the bridge is that way right right, Like

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Speaker 2: there's so these things that people Brooklyn's like, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: totally Boklyn exactly. So he Brooklyn became sort of our

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Speaker 2: declaration so that people will get People who are Brooklyn

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Speaker 2: Knights will use the brand, use the team as a

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Speaker 2: way to communicate their identity as a way of saying

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Speaker 2: I'm for Brooklyn, not for Manhattan, and that way, the

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Speaker 2: Brooklyn Nets becomes an institution for Brooklyn Knights.

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Speaker 1: And I think it was also the merch too that

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Speaker 1: helped a lot, because people were definitely very into the

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Speaker 1: Brooklyn Nets merch. It was definitely, I feel like, some

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Speaker 1: of the best merch in the league.

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Speaker 2: Yet you know what, well, before they played their very

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Speaker 2: first game, this is like months before they played the

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Speaker 2: very first game, we broke Brooklyn Nets merch that went

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Speaker 2: from number twenty six in the league to number four

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Speaker 2: in the league before the team even played. People are like,

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Speaker 2: I want the merch as a way to signal my identity,

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Speaker 2: and the best brands do this. The best brands become

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Speaker 2: receipts of identity, a way of which we can peacock

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Speaker 2: to the world who we are, and as a result,

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Speaker 2: people like us go I want some of that. And

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Speaker 2: that's the idea of activating communities as opposed to activating fans,

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Speaker 2: activating people who see the world similarly, as opposed to

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Speaker 2: activating consumers, because what's a consumer People who consume, but

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Speaker 2: people are not you know, machines, weet messages in craft cash.

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Speaker 2: They're real life human beings, and that's what we need

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Speaker 2: to activate.

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Speaker 1: You know, you brought up politics right before this, and

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you because it feels like when

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Speaker 1: it's time for elections, right and when it's time for

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Speaker 1: people to get out and vote, and even before that,

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Speaker 1: as we're talking about what's been happening during this presidency,

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Speaker 1: one main theme I always hear is that Joe Biden's

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Speaker 1: presidency doesn't do a great job of marketing things that

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Speaker 1: he has accomplished. I would love to get your thoughts

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Speaker 1: on that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I would say that the Democratic Party

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Speaker 2: in general are just terrible storytellers. It's been that way

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Speaker 2: when and Barack Obama was in office. We're seeing it

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Speaker 2: right now with Joe Biden doing these amazing things that

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Speaker 2: empirically are substantial, yet the general public either don't know

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Speaker 2: about it or they don't believe it.

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Speaker 1: Because they always be like the four crime Bill. That's right,

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Speaker 1: that's the one thing that gets brought out because.

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Speaker 2: That's a good story, right, that's a great story that

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Speaker 2: the Republican side of the House does a great job

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Speaker 2: of good stories, but not a lot of substance. My

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Speaker 2: ann used to say it this way, that people tell

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Speaker 2: the lie like it's a truth, and tell the truth

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Speaker 2: like it's a lie.

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Speaker 1: Right and down on Trump is say, if you say

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Speaker 1: something enough times, people would think it's.

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Speaker 2: True exactly one thousand percent. But the Democratic Party sort

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Speaker 2: of waits it to these moments in time like the

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Speaker 2: State of the Union address this evening, to run down

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Speaker 2: all the facts like no, fam you got to be

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Speaker 2: preaching that the entire time. So you give people the

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Speaker 2: talking points when they're in their discussions over dinner or

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Speaker 2: with their friends over drinks and they're like, Joe Biden's

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Speaker 2: is doing a good job. Someone can be like no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: actually he is. Let me run the fact for you.

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Speaker 2: But the storytelling mechanism of the Democratic Party is flawed.

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Speaker 2: They need to get better at that, and if they did,

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Speaker 2: they'd see a demonstrative difference, and not only how people

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Speaker 2: come out and support Biden, But how people use the

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Speaker 2: Democratic Party as a way to communicate their identity.

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Speaker 1: If you were a consultant for them, Yeah, what would

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Speaker 1: you say?

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Speaker 2: Where?

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Speaker 1: Where do we start?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I would start with, like, first of all, what

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Speaker 2: do you believe? You know? I think that a lot

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Speaker 2: of the push in twenty twenty election was we have

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Speaker 2: to stop Trump, and that's what brought people together, right,

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Speaker 2: declared enemy of the state, he's our enemy coming to

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Speaker 2: I don't like him, but I really don't like him exactly.

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Speaker 2: He's like, look, I'll rock with you because I hate

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Speaker 2: this guy. Yeah, and that unified people just like we

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Speaker 2: did with brookly Nets. That's what happens. But now you

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Speaker 2: know his basis coming together because Trump is preaching the

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Speaker 2: gospel if they believe right, he's preaching a gospel that

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Speaker 2: people weren't saying beforehand out in the open. Whether or

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Speaker 2: not that is true, that's right. And he's not speaking

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Speaker 2: to them, he's speaking for them, like on their behal half.

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Speaker 2: So what it means for Democratic parties? First start with,

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Speaker 2: I'm Biden, what do I believe? Like, how do I

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Speaker 2: see the world? Now? Who sees the world the way

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Speaker 2: I do? And let me go preach the gospel to them.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this is exactly what Barack Obama did on

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Speaker 2: on exactly like his on the resume, it wasn't very compelling.

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Speaker 2: Here's this young guy from Chicago, never held you know,

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Speaker 2: office in a long you know, for a long period

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Speaker 2: of time, and he's black and he wants to be president.

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Speaker 2: Are you kidd of never going to happen? At first,

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Speaker 2: No way this is going to happen. However, he ran

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Speaker 2: on the idea that people believe the government is broken,

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Speaker 2: that that that that politics is broken, not that we

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Speaker 2: have bad legislation, not that we have bad ideas, but

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Speaker 2: people are just skeptical. So he ran on hope and

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Speaker 2: people are like, I believe that. Yeah, you're right, Like

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Speaker 2: you're saying thing that I feel, and they came together

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Speaker 2: around it. Biden needs to identify how do I see

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Speaker 2: the world? You your receipts are long fam Like, you

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Speaker 2: did the thing, you're doing the thing. But now you

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Speaker 2: got to find a way to communicate the gospel that's

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Speaker 2: reflective of who we are, how you see the world

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Speaker 2: and who people see the world like you.

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Speaker 1: And as the world is always changing, campaigns have to

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Speaker 1: change too, and you talk about that a lot in

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Speaker 1: this book as well, some campaigns that may have gotten

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Speaker 1: stale and needed a refresh, And now I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about a couple of them.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we talked about the.

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Speaker 1: Budweiser, uh, you know, as a brand and how what's up?

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Speaker 1: That was a pretty popular thing that they had, but

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Speaker 1: then it ran its course. So then what happens when

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Speaker 1: you have to go in and something has run its course?

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Speaker 1: Talk about how you guys have to reset?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, culture is always changing. Since culture is always moving,

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Speaker 2: the same way you communicate a thing isn't going to

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Speaker 2: work when things have come out of style, right, you know,

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Speaker 2: I talk about this in the book. You know, we

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Speaker 2: did a campaign for Sprite, Yeah exactly. So we took

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Speaker 2: obya thirsts for the nineties and brought it back, you know, saying,

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Speaker 2: you know, only for the thirsty, But the meaning of

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Speaker 2: thirst was no longer like it was in nineties.

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Speaker 1: Care about that's a terrible thing.

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Speaker 2: No one wants to be thirsty. The meaning of thirst

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Speaker 2: had changed, and therefore the communications didn't work. So with Budweiser,

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Speaker 2: after was up kind of lost his favor, and you know,

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Speaker 2: they tried a lot of things didn't work at translation.

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Speaker 2: We asked ourselves, Okay, so what is the cultural zeitgeist

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Speaker 2: right now? Budweiser sort of the Americana brand. It stood

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Speaker 2: for Americanism, patriots, I'm proud to be an American, bring

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Speaker 2: home the troops. But patriotism in the early twenty tens

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Speaker 2: wasn't about flag waving. It was about the dream. I

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Speaker 2: believe in the American dream that if I have an idea,

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Speaker 2: that I'm talented, if I'm creative, I can make it happen.

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Speaker 2: It's like, that's where we're going to celebrate the new Americana,

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Speaker 2: this idea of makers. And we thought, who is the

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Speaker 2: most the most demonstra representation of that. Jay Z, Right,

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Speaker 2: here's a guy from Marci's project who's unbelievably talented and

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Speaker 2: had enough wherewithal to sort of go after what he

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Speaker 2: believed and he made it happen. So we partner with

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Speaker 2: jay Z, with Budweiser, with Live Nation to create the

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Speaker 2: Main in America festival that celebrated the makers of tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: See I didn't realize that's how Made in America came about.

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Speaker 1: It just felt like a whole separate thing, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: he's doing a festival now, but you don't know behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes all the things that are and you know,

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Speaker 1: with DEI under attack right now, right, I think that

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Speaker 1: the way that translation has been said up with Steve

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Speaker 1: South's agency when you were working there, the importance of

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Speaker 1: having diverse voices in the room really does matter a lot.

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Speaker 1: We've seen some campaigns, I mean totally miss the mark

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Speaker 1: and sometimes destroy a brand because the right people aren't

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Speaker 1: in the room.

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Speaker 2: It's right, and it's not because of ill intent, not

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Speaker 2: because these people are bad people. They just don't know.

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Speaker 2: They don't have proximity, they're not close to it. And

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Speaker 2: we talk about diversity, we'll think about diversity as like

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Speaker 2: representation only, and we think we need diverse rooms as

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Speaker 2: a way of being altruistic. But like diversity really is

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Speaker 2: a business advantage. It's about having multiple perspectives in the

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Speaker 2: room to see things that you don't see. More eyes

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Speaker 2: really removes more blind spots, so you can make better

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Speaker 2: decisions and keep yourself out of the cross cares of

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Speaker 2: boycotts or completely playing yourself.

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Speaker 1: And when they run the numbers, companies that are more

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Speaker 1: diverse actually make more money. And so for people to

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Speaker 1: act like well, no, we're giving unqualified people positions. That's

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Speaker 1: not true. That is giving qualified people the voice that

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Speaker 1: they deserve so that your company, your brand, your products

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Speaker 1: aren't going to fall victim to being tone deaf.

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Speaker 2: That's right. My colleague at the University of Michigan and

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Speaker 2: Jailing by the name of Scott Page, he quantified what

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Speaker 2: he calls the diversity bonus, like it's an empirical fact

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Speaker 2: that if you have heterogeneous perspectives, multiple perspectives looking at

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Speaker 2: a problem, you're going to get better outcomes, full stop.

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Speaker 2: So I tell a company who's being soft on DEI

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Speaker 2: who's like, uh, the diversity thing is done, you know,

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Speaker 2: George Floyd, that happened, you know, four years ago. We're

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Speaker 2: done with that. It's like, no, no, no, no. This is

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Speaker 2: a way to turbocharge your business, i e. Taking the

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Speaker 2: cultural perspectives from different people to bring it in so

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Speaker 2: you can put rocket fuel against your business success.

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Speaker 1: You know what, Since we were talking about bud Wiser

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Speaker 1: bud Light, they had some mishaps. Yeah, and you know

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Speaker 1: they had a trans woman Dylan Molvaney that's right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: as their representative and that actually really hurt them. Where

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Speaker 1: did they go wrong?

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Speaker 2: So here's the wild part. So I launched Main American

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Speaker 2: Music Festival at Translation, and I worked on bud Light

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Speaker 2: as well at Translation. And so when the Dila molv

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Speaker 2: anything happened, and I saw it happening in real time

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Speaker 2: before the boycottsd even started, I go, yeah, of course

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Speaker 2: bud Light would partner with the transgender person because for

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Speaker 2: years bud Light has been support of the LGBTQ plus community.

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Speaker 2: Right even at Translation back in twenty twelve, I was

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Speaker 2: doing marriage equality work for bud Light because the client said,

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Speaker 2: this community matters to us, because they've supported us, we're

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Speaker 2: going to support them. So when I saw the campaign

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Speaker 2: and go, yeah, of course they would do that. But

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Speaker 2: then the backlash happened, and as a result, they flinched

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Speaker 2: instead of saying no, we've been doing.

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Speaker 1: Down exactly and give the backup like no, this is

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Speaker 1: something that we've always strongly believed in and back Dylan

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Speaker 1: to a ten thousand degree, instead it was like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, we have to do damage controul.

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Speaker 2: That's right, And you hardly ever see a company have

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Speaker 2: such long receipts of being a part of a social

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Speaker 2: cause when it wasn't hot, like when people weren't jumping

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Speaker 2: on Pride month, they had already been there. They could

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Speaker 2: have just said yo, like what are you talking about?

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Speaker 1: Or that was totally missing.

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Speaker 2: It's like your kid rock, You're shooting up bud light cans.

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Speaker 2: We have a picture with you with a drag cream

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Speaker 2: drinking bud like, what are we doing here? Like? I mean,

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Speaker 2: it would have so many rebuttals or responses to that

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Speaker 2: could have been so easily done. But instead they said, Hey,

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Speaker 2: we don't want no smoke, we don't want no problem

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Speaker 2: with nobody. We're for everyone. Now the LGBT plus community

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Speaker 2: is like, excuse me, yeah we are How you playing us?

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Speaker 2: Yeah right? I thought you were down with us. So

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Speaker 2: they alienated the people who were boycotting them, They alienated

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Speaker 2: the LGBT plus community, and now all you have the

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Speaker 2: people in the middle who said, I don't want none

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Speaker 2: of this, I'll just treat Modello and as a result,

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Speaker 2: boom sales drop.

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Speaker 1: All right, that was great. I haven't heard it ever

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Speaker 1: explain in that manner before.

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Speaker 2: That's why I'm here.

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Speaker 1: Another campaign that was amazing that she worked in was

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Speaker 1: Travis Scott and McDonald's. All right, so tell me how

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Speaker 1: that came into fruition and what was behind that.

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Speaker 2: So McDonald's in Wyden Kennedy the agency I was most

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Speaker 2: recently at.

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Speaker 1: Hey riding Kennedy shout out to my girl that's over

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Speaker 1: there and now that used to actually work for the

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Speaker 1: Brooklyn Nets.

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Speaker 2: Stay JJ and JJ both worked for Brooklyn Nets and

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Speaker 2: great people love them. Those are my girls. So Wyinan

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Speaker 2: Kennedy is working with with McDonald's and McDonald's been battling

431
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,760
Speaker 2: a lot of hate for a very long time, right,

432
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,040
Speaker 2: like there was a punching bag for everything wrong with

433
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,440
Speaker 2: the American diet. We're overweight, we're starting the hypertension because

434
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,760
Speaker 2: our diets are terrible, and it's all McDonald's fault, villainized essentially.

435
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,280
Speaker 2: So McDonald says, hey, why Kenny, help us navigate the

436
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:02,160
Speaker 2: hate and Wyden says, people definitely hate you, but sixty

437
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,680
Speaker 2: eight million people show up at your door every single day.

438
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 2: That's a lot of love. Want you focus on those folks.

439
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,040
Speaker 2: And they're like, we never thought about it that way.

440
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,120
Speaker 2: So we asked, so who are these people? Who are

441
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:14,920
Speaker 2: these fans who love you so much? They didn't know

442
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 2: them very well, so let's get to know them. So

443
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,359
Speaker 2: we do an ethnography, a road trip going from Chicago

444
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,959
Speaker 2: all the way through their heart heartland the country, talking

445
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,160
Speaker 2: to real life human beings who self identify as McDonald's fans.

446
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 2: And what the team found is what we call fan truths.

447
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:33,400
Speaker 2: These are like specific, shareable, special little things about being

448
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 2: a McDonald's fans. For instance, your friend will ask for

449
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 2: fries even though they say they didn't want any fries.

450
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 2: That's my wife, Audio, and they gotta be high exactly.

451
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,480
Speaker 2: Audio one works like I don't know Wan nothing back

452
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 2: up right? Or or who doesn't eat the cheese? Stuck

453
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,400
Speaker 2: to the rapper, Don't you're a monster? Cause that she's amazing. Right.

454
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,639
Speaker 2: So we found all these fan truths, but the most

455
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 2: profound fan truth was this, no matter how big, how

456
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 2: famous you are, everyone has an order. And it's like

457
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 2: McDonald's is sort of the democrat tizer of humanity in

458
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 2: that way, which makes a lot of sense. McDonald's is

459
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:09,760
Speaker 2: so ubiquitous, they democratized sort of access to food and

460
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 2: they become ways with which we connect. And the team said, oh,

461
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:16,359
Speaker 2: that's interesting. What if we stoke fandom by celebrating their orders.

462
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 2: So the first thing he did was a was a

463
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 2: super bowl ad that show showcase famous orders from famous

464
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,919
Speaker 2: people like Kim Kardashian eats chicken nuggets with honey, Magic

465
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 2: Johnson eats a fley of fish, Wiopie Goldberg eats a

466
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,679
Speaker 2: big mac, right, and the fans responded really well to that.

467
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 2: Then the team said, well, let's make it real, so

468
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 2: they partnered with Travis Scott, who for long has been

469
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 2: a huge fan of McDonald's. We've known that from videos,

470
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,680
Speaker 2: we've seen him, et cetera. So we took his meal

471
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 2: quarter pounded with shredded lettuce, bacon, barbecue sauce dipped to fries,

472
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 2: and a sprite, and we called the Cactus.

473
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,679
Speaker 1: Jack and then merse that came along with it with

474
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 1: some I remember that chicken make nugget pillows.

475
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. So you put it in the

476
00:22:55,080 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 2: world and the response was crazy in the first In

477
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 2: the first two weeks, we broke McDonald's supply chain of

478
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 2: quarter pounder ingredients. People were stealing posters off the wall. Yeah,

479
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 2: I remember. The restaurant was closed. And we added fifty

480
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 2: million dollars incremental revenue for McDonald's in the first month,

481
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 2: and Wall Street added ten billion dollars from McDonald's market cap. Wow,

482
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 2: that's wild wild to McDonald's like, okay, this is a

483
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,719
Speaker 2: thing here, yeah, exactly off in that's right. J Valvin

484
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 2: and ran carry and sweety like and this thing was

485
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 2: become we call it famous orders, but it's really about

486
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 2: community orders. These weren't new products. They were just reframed

487
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,640
Speaker 2: through a cultural lens and people go, oh, that's my order, right,

488
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 2: and they feel much much closer to each other and

489
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:44,920
Speaker 2: to the brand.

490
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 1: I also think about how influencers have changed how companies

491
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,439
Speaker 1: market and promote as well. Oh, because a lot of

492
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 1: people with social media are now trying to figure out

493
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:58,880
Speaker 1: ways to directly affect and get into people's brains through

494
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,919
Speaker 1: trusted influence. Say so, what are your thoughts on that?

495
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: And how have you used that in any of your

496
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 1: yet certinships?

497
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,439
Speaker 2: So what influencers they are. They're far closer to people

498
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 2: than like massive celebrities like the use of the world

499
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 2: like no. So the idea is that you know, influencers

500
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 2: create content context, and the context is you know, if

501
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,919
Speaker 2: someone is into cooking and they say, hey, this is

502
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 2: the best olive oil, you go, I'm gonna trust that

503
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,639
Speaker 2: because she's really into cooking. But if someone who's into cooking,

504
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 2: who's like, hey, these are you know, the best the

505
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 2: best tires, you go, what do you know about tires? Right?

506
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 2: Like they provide context. But the truth of the matter

507
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 2: is that the most influential people are our people. They're

508
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 2: the regular people we talk to. Like, for instance, if

509
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 2: I saw I don't know, if I saw someone jay

510
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,439
Speaker 2: Z wearing a Brooklyn Nets hat and I go, that

511
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 2: hat is kind of dope. I have an outfit that

512
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 2: matches that, and I wear that hat to lunch with

513
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 2: my friends and they go, you, like an idiot, take

514
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 2: that hat off. I'm taking that hat off, right, They're like, yo,

515
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 2: Marcus had is so dope, Like, well, I know, right,

516
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 2: I'm never taking a headle Right. It's our people who

517
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 2: make things stick. Celebrities and influencers they create the act

518
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 2: as contextual media, they put the product in context and

519
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 2: act as bright watterch media. But it's our people who

520
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 2: decide what actually sticks.

521
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 1: And then you know, and I know you have a

522
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: flight to catch. Lastly bringing it home for you. Shinola. Yeah,

523
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 1: let's talk about Shinola. And because I always thought that

524
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: brand was actually originated in Detroit and was from Detroit.

525
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: But can you talk about hash And we have a

526
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: Shanola story in Brooklyn too. Oh sweet, I know, yeah

527
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: as well, it's right in the same building. It's in Dumbo,

528
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: in the same building as Dumbo House. Oh nice, nice,

529
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 1: all right, So talk about Shanola because it's like Shanola

530
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 1: Detroit and.

531
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 2: Shanola Detroit is the brand is the Moniker, the brand

532
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 2: markets that were but it's owned by a company called Bedrock,

533
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 2: which actually is h is headquartered in Dallas, Texas. And

534
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 2: the way the story goes, the lore that we know

535
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 2: is that d Rock said, we want to start a

536
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 2: watch company. They already had watches, their own fossil watches,

537
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 2: so they go, we want to do an upscale watch company,

538
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 2: but we define a place a good story for it

539
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 2: to live. So they did a survey. They asked people

540
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 2: if we started a watch store in these a watch

541
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 2: company in these cities, which wanted to be more and

542
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 2: which be more compelling, And people said, ooh, Detroit. Because

543
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 2: this is at a time Detroit was battling bankruptcy. So

544
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 2: the idea was that buying from Detroit, like you were

545
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 2: contributing to the city. So people bought into that they're like.

546
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: I'm want to do something that means something because you

547
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: care about the story behind a brain.

548
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. So it wasn't from Detroit, but

549
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 2: they implant it there. And then they use the name

550
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 2: shin Nola, which actually comes from a shoe polish company

551
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 2: that was defunct. And if you looked at that those campaigns,

552
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 2: all the caricatures were minstrel there were a blackface, they

553
00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 2: were shining like didn't even us see that? The juxtaposition

554
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 2: that seems very very complex that you go to arguably

555
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,479
Speaker 2: the blackest city in the country, Detroit, and you borrow

556
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 2: equity from a company name that that depict black people

557
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,919
Speaker 2: in this very horrendous way. What's going on here? And

558
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 2: though I think the products, the Shanola products are great,

559
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 2: the leadership there is awesome now, but at the time

560
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,719
Speaker 2: it was very problematic. I thought it was worth mentioning

561
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 2: in the book because stories, as we talked about with

562
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party, is are They're so powerful. They are

563
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 2: the currency of community. So telling stories bring us together

564
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 2: but also socialize what's normal for people like us. But

565
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 2: we can use stories to help project things forward. But

566
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 2: stories can also be used in a very damning way

567
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 2: that that can undermine sort of civil good. And I

568
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 2: think that Shinolah's a niche. Initial move forward was problematic,

569
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 2: but the leadership they are in place now are making

570
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 2: some really parenthood.

571
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, because when hear about planned parenthood, they

572
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: always talk about the origins that's a planned parenthood, but

573
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: the good that it does now exactly exactly.

574
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, but those stories have to be told,

575
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 2: like you have to air out on it.

576
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 1: People will talk about the Democratic Party and how it started.

577
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 1: That's right, and where we are now is completely different

578
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:14,959
Speaker 1: than started.

579
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 2: That's right. You have to air the bad laundry on history.

580
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 1: Can exppreciate here that Florida school system, that's right. Okay,

581
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: slavery did exist, it wasn't voluntary, and.

582
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,360
Speaker 2: It's not helpful for us exactly.

583
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 1: All right, Well, doctor Marcus Collins, and by the way,

584
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: he is a professor at the Raw School of Business

585
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 1: at University of Michigan. Those students I know are so

586
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: grateful to have you, honestly as a professor because those

587
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: classes are fun. I had an opportunity to sit with

588
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: you also, you crushed it.

589
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 2: Well.

590
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: I was there. I had a great time and the

591
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: book for the culture, the power behind what we buy,

592
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: what we do, and who we want to be. Y'all

593
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: will love it because you get to see the inside

594
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: stories behind some of the campaigns and some I found

595
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: it to be quite insightful and entertaining.

596
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

597
00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful, so thank you so much for coming

598
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: through Go catch fly, and thank you for my merch

599
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: for the culture. Y'all's way up, Way Up,