1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,160 Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Me and M, 2 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: the British modern luxury clothing label designed for busy women. 3 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:09,319 Speaker 1: Founded and designed in London. Me and M is about 4 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 1: intelligence style. Much thought and care are put into the 5 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: design process, so every piece is flattering, functional and made 6 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: to last forever. Me and M is well known for 7 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 1: its trousers and how I got to know the brand. 8 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: It's my go to for styles that are comfortable enough 9 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: to wear in the kitchen or the restaurant, also polished 10 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: enough for meetings. Me and M is available online and 11 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: its stores across London, Edinburgh, New York. If you're in London, 12 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: I'd really recommend heading to their beautiful, brand new flagship 13 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: store in Marlevin, which opens on the twenty ninth of October. 14 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: I'm often asked who was the inspiration for Ruthie's Table 15 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: four and the answer is easy. It all began with 16 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: Ian McKellen. For some years, Richard and I invited a 17 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:57,279 Speaker 1: collection of actors to give performances in our home. On 18 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: his night, Ian gave a soliloquy from King Lear, sang 19 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: a beautiful song by Sondheim, shared an anecdote about Christmas pantomimes, 20 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: and read a poem by Orden. For the surprise finale, 21 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 1: he sat on a stool with the River Cafe cookbook 22 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: and read the recipe for Rebelita, a traditional Tuscan soup 23 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: compelling as any story, poem, sonnet or song. We were 24 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: all spellbound. Fifteen years later and an idea for a 25 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 1: podcast was born. In is known to everyone as different 26 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 1: characters Macbeth, king Lear, Hamlet, Gandolf. I know him as 27 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: my inspiration and also as my friend. I have so 28 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: many happy memories of Ian Sunday lunches at the River Cafe, 29 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: going to Paris together, and on my birthday one year, 30 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: he even sang my favorite Coporter song, You're the Top. 31 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 2: I a bride proper confined those rondapots, but it bas 32 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 2: a hard bottom. Oh that's the sweetest thing I ever heard. 33 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: It's true, it's true. Do you remember those nights? And 34 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: I have a photograph of you with the cookbook reading 35 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 1: it on the steps. I think, right, yes. 36 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 2: What I've been inspired by those experience is to do 37 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 2: something similar here what is that? And above the room 38 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 2: above where we are now, I can get in seventy 39 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 2: chairs and I put them on tears so that everyone 40 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 2: gets a good view, and I got a very nice piano. 41 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 2: The professionals like to come and play undress. Schiff has 42 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 2: played in my room upstairs. Joshua Bell comes and plays 43 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 2: the violin. Just the fundraisers for various things. But I 44 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 2: don't think I would have done it if I hadn't 45 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 2: seen that you could turn your home into a concert 46 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 2: all And it's. 47 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: The intimacy of performance is something special. 48 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 2: When you can hear the pennis breathing and hear their 49 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 2: fingers or their nails on the on the keyboard, it's wonderful. 50 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: So what we do is that we ask our guests 51 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,239 Speaker 1: to read a recipe from one of our books. But 52 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 1: you've chosen, oh, that's fine. I can take it and 53 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: I might learn something because the recipe you're reading is 54 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: very British, isn't it. 55 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 2: I'm not a cook, but here we are. This is 56 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 2: Queen of Puddings and it was what my mother used 57 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 2: to make. The ingredients for this are two ounces, and 58 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 2: I like aunces rather than drums. I don't understand graunds. 59 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 2: So two ounces of soft white breadcrumbs, two eggs, two 60 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 2: ounces of caster sugar, jam, trances of stultanas. I don't 61 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 2: put sultans in. Ten fluid ounces of milk, an ounce 62 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 2: of butter, bit of grated rind of a lemon, and 63 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 2: that's it. It says here. You boil the milk with 64 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 2: the butter, and you pour on the bread crumbs, and 65 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 2: you add the sugar and the rind, and you stir thoroughly. 66 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 2: You beat the egg yolks and you beat each into 67 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 2: buttered pie dish, and you refrigerate for forty minutes. I 68 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 2: don't suppose I'd do that. Then you bake it at 69 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 2: a level four and gas middle shelf until delicately springy. 70 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 2: I do like that in recipes when there's something really 71 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 2: homely means what it says, you whip the egg whites 72 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 2: very stiffly. That's to make a meringue. You put the 73 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 2: jam on top of the bread crumbs, you pipe or 74 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 2: fork the egg whites over the top, and you bake 75 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 2: in the oven for ten minutes. Couldn't be easier, and 76 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 2: it's absolutely delicious. But it was something you could manage 77 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 2: during the war. 78 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about that. Because you were born in 79 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty nine, I was just before the war in 80 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: Lancas in Lancashire, do you have a first food memory. 81 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:07,679 Speaker 1: Do you remember? 82 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 2: Well, we were living in Wigan, which is in Lancashire, 83 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 2: a coal mining town. The big towns nearby like Manchester 84 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 2: and Liverpool were bombed regularly and the only bombs we 85 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 2: ever saw were there was very few that were discarded 86 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 2: before the Germans flew back east, so there were only 87 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 2: two bombs in the whole of the war in Wigan. 88 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 2: So safe it was it that we had evacuee. We 89 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:37,119 Speaker 2: had a family. 90 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: It was considered a safe place to take children. 91 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 2: Yes, and how my mother managed I don't know, suddenly 92 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 2: having to share the tiny kitchen with another woman who 93 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 2: had two children. How we all fitted into our house. 94 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: I don't know what was the house like to describe 95 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: your house, It had. 96 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 2: Four bedrooms, but it was a semi detached house in 97 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 2: the street and near the center of Wigan, with a 98 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 2: lovely aspect in both front over the park and at 99 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 2: the back over the cricket club. Bit squeezed inside. I suppose, well, 100 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 2: we all shared beds. I can't really remember. 101 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,159 Speaker 1: But food, do you remember the kitchen? 102 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 2: We asked the kitchen was that we had a fire 103 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 2: which heated the oven, no fridge of course, there was 104 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 2: a little little room which we called the pantry, which 105 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 2: was relatively cool. 106 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 1: But this would be if you were born in thirty nine, 107 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: so you're aware your memories of food in your house 108 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 1: and the kitchen. You would have been about four or five, 109 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: which was about nineteen forty four forty five. 110 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 2: I was very aware of the rationing. 111 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: What was it like? 112 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 2: My mother liked to bake. In order to bake, you 113 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 2: needed sugar, you needed fat, and the rationing was two 114 00:06:55,839 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 2: ounces of butter a week per person and four ounces 115 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 2: of margarine and one egg. Now there was dried egg 116 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 2: which was the equivalent of three eggs. You had that 117 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 2: for a week, so she could bake with that sugar. Again, 118 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 2: severely irrations and the way we got round things that's 119 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 2: probably illegal. We used to swap our rations for tea 120 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 2: and coffee which we didn't drink, and took from those 121 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 2: people who desperately needed that fix sugar or fat. And 122 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 2: it was always my job. On a Saturday, when the 123 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 2: groceries arrived, I would take half a pound of butter, 124 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 2: which was for four of us double that amount of margarine, 125 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 2: put it in a big bowl, take the top off 126 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 2: the milk that was always cream on top of them 127 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 2: and put those three bits of fat together and in 128 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,239 Speaker 2: front of the fire, warmed it and beat it until 129 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 2: it was a paste butter. 130 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: The butter in mind, that was the. 131 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 2: Butter for the week, and it always ran out on 132 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 2: a Thursday. 133 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: If your mother would make would she bake, would say, okay, children, 134 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: we're not having butter on toast. We're going to save 135 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: the butter. We're not going to fry something in butter. 136 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: We're going to save it for the cake. 137 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 2: Butter. 138 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: Yes, And that went to what year was that. 139 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 2: Right through the wall. But I don't ever remember being hungry. 140 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: You weren't hungry, or a sense of denial. 141 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 2: And there was always a pudding. 142 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,839 Speaker 1: There was. So you were living in a house with 143 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: your mother, your father, and your sister and yourself. So 144 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: there were four of you. 145 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 2: There are four of us, and then three arrived mother 146 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 2: and two children. They were just with us for a year. 147 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 2: I don't remember any arguments. I remember the lad teaching 148 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 2: me how to tie my shoelaces. There was a pattern 149 00:08:55,760 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 2: of life like washing was always done on a Monday. 150 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 2: Tuesday was ironing. 151 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: Mother was cooking all yeah, your mother was cooking. 152 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 2: She was a cook. I don't remember my father ever 153 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 2: cooking anything apart from and you. 154 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,599 Speaker 1: Did you go in the kitchen? Would you say the 155 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:16,079 Speaker 1: whole time? 156 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 2: Can I have the bowl? Can I have the bowl? 157 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 2: And there was a pattern with the food there because 158 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 2: we went to church on Sunday and she didn't want 159 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 2: to cook on a Sunday. We always had a roast, 160 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 2: but we had it on a Saturday, so that was 161 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 2: our big meal of the of the week. On Sunday 162 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 2: we would have the cold meat. And on Monday always 163 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 2: we had the minced meat and turned into shepherd's pie. 164 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 2: And then we got to get through Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, 165 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 2: and that's when it would be baked beans on toast 166 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 2: as the main meal, which we called the tea. We 167 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 2: might manage a salad with a bit of ham, maybe 168 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 2: two ounces a week. And there was probably a Friday 169 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 2: or two where we didn't have quite enough to eat, 170 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:08,719 Speaker 2: but I didn't really notice that. 171 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,079 Speaker 1: Was it a solitary life? Did you feel that you 172 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: had friend Your mother had friends and you had friends 173 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,559 Speaker 1: and people. Oh, yes, she was a very social You 174 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: said that you enjoyed being with people, and so they 175 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: were all those friends. Was your father a preacher. 176 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 2: He was a lay preacher. So we were very We 177 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 2: were very Christian. 178 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: You grew up in a house that loved culture as well. 179 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: That there was piano music, there was, you know, we 180 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 1: did think of it as culture. 181 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 2: We thought of it as a lovely pastime. Dad played 182 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 2: the piano and my sister learned the piano. I learned 183 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 2: the piano for a bit. Visitors, always dropping by, close friends, 184 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 2: everything within walking distance, you know, no car bikes we 185 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 2: had and once a year or twice a year, close 186 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:01,559 Speaker 2: together in the autumn, we'd go BlackBerry. That was a 187 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 2: great thrill. You could get food for free off the bushes. 188 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,079 Speaker 1: Stra did your mother ever make summer pudding with the 189 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: black currants? 190 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 2: Summer pudding? I love soup because all you needed in 191 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 2: that was a bit of sugar and you could probably 192 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 2: use saccharin and some bread crumbs. 193 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: Make it in the river cafe. You have to come. 194 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:27,079 Speaker 1: We make it with currants raspberries. Now this is not 195 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 1: a rationing summer pudding, but in Valpolicella, and we cook 196 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: it the berries and the currants down, and then we 197 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: line a beautiful bowl with bread slices of bread, and 198 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: then you put the fruit in and then you close 199 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:42,559 Speaker 1: it with the bread and you press it down and 200 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:46,199 Speaker 1: then we leave it and then you demold it, and 201 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:50,719 Speaker 1: it is one of my favorite. The British do a 202 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: lot of puddings with bread, don't they The one the 203 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: recipe you they like using up the bread. 204 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 2: But you know, there was every thing was rationed. I 205 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 2: can remember the first banana. 206 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: When was that. 207 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 2: That'd been about nineteen forty four. 208 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: Where were you? 209 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,679 Speaker 2: I was at home and missus Baron next door came 210 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 2: in and she said, I've got something to show you, 211 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 2: a banana. When i'd heard about bananas, I knew they 212 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 2: weren't straight. And she came in with this four inch 213 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,839 Speaker 2: banana and we were all allowed to hold it and 214 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,439 Speaker 2: imagine what it might be like inside, and then it 215 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 2: was explained that you peeled up. There was the banana. 216 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 2: Missus Baron mashed it up, and the five kids, Jeane 217 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:43,559 Speaker 2: and I and the three next door shared a banana sandwich. 218 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 2: It was probably quite a healthy diet. 219 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,959 Speaker 1: Well, they say that you didn't have sugar, you didn't 220 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 1: your teeth, you didn't have sweets, and you had them. 221 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: People weren't overweight. 222 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 2: You would see sometimes rolling out of a pub. We 223 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 2: never went public entrink, some woman with a huge ass, 224 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 2: and I was riveted by it. I would follow them 225 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 2: down the street. I've never seen anything like. No, you're right. 226 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 2: We were all things, but I suppose it's healthy. Sometimes 227 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,199 Speaker 2: it was very exciting school. We went to school and 228 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 2: food parcels arrived from North America think I think Canada, 229 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 2: And I remember bringing back I couldn't believe it, a 230 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 2: huge two pound bag of cocoa powder, and presented it 231 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 2: to my mother. I loved her so much. 232 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: What was she like here? 233 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:51,559 Speaker 2: Ah, she was beauty, she was pretty, nature, was very gentle. 234 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 2: She had a rather flamboyant younger sister who she was 235 00:13:57,800 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 2: the one who made the jokes. But it was my 236 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 2: mother who was all was laughing. But she loved going 237 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 2: to the theater and so did that. And she did 238 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 2: a little bit of acting when she was a kid 239 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 2: in church socials and so on. And I suppose she 240 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 2: was crazy about me, her little boy. Long after the war, 241 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 2: when we'd moved from Wigan to Bolton, she was only 242 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 2: forty four and got breast cats. I wasn't told I was. 243 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 2: I was eleven or twelve, and I went off on 244 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 2: a school camp for a couple of weeks and she 245 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 2: was by that time sleeping downstairs. She couldn't manage to 246 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 2: walk upstead. And while I was away she died. And 247 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 2: I've not got over it yet. So when she died, 248 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 2: I was berefed, really, and I didn't know I was berefed. 249 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 2: And my father very generous, not just for his own sake. 250 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 2: He remarried and I think party to give me a mother. 251 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 2: And my stepmother, Gladys, was very good at that job 252 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 2: and the reasonable cook herself. What was she like? She 253 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 2: was short, she was from Liverpool, she'd been a secretary 254 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 2: I think all her life, and in her early forties 255 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 2: finally married handsome Dennis McCallum. 256 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 1: Every year, The River Cafe curates holiday gift boxes filled 257 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: with Italian ingredients. Are extra virgin olive oil bottled exclusively 258 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: for the River Cafe, Paula Petrelli, tomatoes from Pulia, Tuscan 259 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: chocolates and candied sweets from Genoa. One of our best 260 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 1: boxes in the international box, which also has River Cafe 261 00:15:55,240 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: Limited Edition, jam Chipriani, Ultra Fine Taglerini, Pasta Cafe Cantucci 262 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: and a Bella Freud candle water. On our website, shop 263 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: the River Cafe, dout co UK or call me an seven. Sorry, Okay, thanks. 264 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: Do you think that the rationing and the discipline and 265 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: the lack of food has stayed with you all your life? 266 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: Do you still think about wastage or about excess? 267 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 2: Oh? I saw. Well. One way in which is certainly 268 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 2: effected my life is my parents were teetotal. They'd taken 269 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 2: the pledge, which is what people did in the twenties, 270 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 2: swore off drink and we didn't drink tea or coffee, 271 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 2: so the only thing we drank was water out of 272 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 2: the tap, but in life water and I never developed 273 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 2: a taste for alcohol. And three years ago all was 274 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 2: at four and now I stopped drinking alcohol altogether, So 275 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 2: that really stayed with me, I do. I was deeply 276 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 2: shocked when I first went to America and saw the 277 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 2: size of portions of people at the food will be 278 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,880 Speaker 2: put on your plate as a kid, and you will 279 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 2: eat it whether you enjoy it or not. It's not 280 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 2: the point. You must finish everything. Think of the starving 281 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 2: children in China, we were told. And the day I 282 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 2: knew I was an adult was when I went to 283 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 2: Cambridge and on the first day in my little gown, 284 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 2: sat with other boys in the dining hall and was 285 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 2: waited on by people, and we had venice venison goodness. Say, now, 286 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 2: this is way after the war, and cabbage. I think 287 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 2: it was on the side, and I had my way 288 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 2: through the venice and I didn't much like it, and 289 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 2: I decided I wouldn't finish the cabbage, and I left 290 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 2: it on the table on the plate. I'd never until 291 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 2: I was the age eighteen left anything on my plate, 292 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 2: and I knew away from home i'd done that, and 293 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 2: that I was now an adult. I apparently spoke in 294 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 2: a funny way. I mean, I was mocked for my accent. 295 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: What's the accent? 296 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 2: Like? What was it? Something like this? Really it would 297 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 2: be a little bit broader than I allow myself to be. 298 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 2: But I could never say the word one. I always 299 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 2: said one one. Well, horrible little boys from public school 300 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 2: would point at me and mock me, and so I 301 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 2: tried to speak like they did, rather posh and didn't succeed. 302 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 2: Of late, I've let my own accent come back and 303 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:38,919 Speaker 2: feel much happier. 304 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so at Cambridge you were exposed to vedicine 305 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: and meals in the college, but you also did you 306 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: have enough money to go to restaurants in Cambridge? Would 307 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: you go out with your friends to a pub and 308 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: eat well? 309 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 2: What the great discovery at Cambridge was the Indian restaurant 310 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 2: And I used to have egg curry was half a 311 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 2: hard boiled egg with a curry delicious, So that that's 312 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,239 Speaker 2: the first time I really went to have as an 313 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:10,719 Speaker 2: adult and independent. 314 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: So you were acting in Cambridge, we were there, Jacoby 315 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 1: and Camber. 316 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 2: I Swift, a lot, a lot of people who went 317 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 2: into the businesses. We spent those of us who are 318 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:27,360 Speaker 2: really keen spent all our time acting rather than studying. 319 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 2: I never learned how to be a good student. 320 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: What were you studying? What was the course? You went into? 321 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 2: English literature? 322 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 1: And so we were able to direct? Did you act? 323 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 2: Did you didn't direct? 324 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: Do you have any education in acting? Did you have none? 325 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 2: I've just done at school. Yes. Before I went to 326 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 2: Cambridge I played him with the fifth Prince hal in 327 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 2: the earlier and in the fourth I played girls part. 328 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 2: We also had at miniature theater. It was called just 329 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 2: down the road from the school, the theater that held 330 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 2: about fifty audience members and we did constant programs of 331 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 2: one act place all the time, and if you did 332 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 2: that you were allowed to miss. 333 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: Pt And what was it like when you left Cambridge 334 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: came you went? Did you have a domestic situation where 335 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:25,640 Speaker 1: you had to cook for yourself? 336 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,360 Speaker 2: Well? Yes, I went straight off and got a job 337 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 2: in a repertory company. Most major cities had a repertory company, 338 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 2: the big group of actors who stayed together for a year. 339 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,880 Speaker 2: It did a different play every two weeks or three weeks. 340 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 2: And Coventry was such a place at the Belgrade Theater 341 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 2: in company and I was in that company. It was 342 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 2: all very post war, an optimistic. Coventry had been appalling 343 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 2: the bomb, of course, but the center of the town 344 00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 2: rebuilt with a theater, a modern theater with little flats attached, 345 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,399 Speaker 2: and I paid half my weekly salary to pay for 346 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,640 Speaker 2: this flat. Just across the car park was the Hole 347 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 2: in the Wall pub, which is about now in twenty 348 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 2: twenty four to close down forever more. But big part 349 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 2: of our lives. We always went there after the show 350 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 2: you did, and we were allowed to stay there after 351 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 2: hours and drink with the policeman. 352 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 1: Is that something you still do now? Do you like 353 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: to go after a performance? 354 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 2: Do you go out with friends, and now I don't 355 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 2: go out to pubs because I don't drink. 356 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: So now, but do you go to restaurants after night theater? 357 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 2: Yes, I do, but not as a matter of course. No, 358 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 2: I'm happy to get back home and make myself a sandwich, 359 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 2: so I'd probably at things on toast all the time. 360 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 2: And we we couldn't afford to go to a restaurant. 361 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 1: You didn't go to any local restaurants, No, no, no, 362 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: yeah no. 363 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,399 Speaker 2: But when I first came to live in London in 364 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 2: ninety six six four, in the King's Road, the unfashionable 365 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 2: end in those days, near World's End, I was living 366 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 2: with some friends, sharing flat with three or four other people, 367 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 2: and we did sometimes go out to a restaurant. Yes, 368 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 2: it was a thrill, felt terribly grown up. 369 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: And of course at that time being gay was still illegal, 370 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: wasn't it. 371 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, oh yes. I went right through Cambridge and 372 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 2: right through my twenties in a country where you could 373 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 2: be imprisoned for making love, but because it was just 374 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 2: what it was, you didn't. I lived with my boyfriend 375 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 2: in our own flat in London, and he was a 376 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 2: good cook, and that's when I began to start cooking properly, 377 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 2: as long as my job to do the roast easy, 378 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 2: isn't it a roast? But we lived very perfectly openly. 379 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 2: Everybody knew we lived together. We always went out together. 380 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,160 Speaker 2: We wouldn't hold hands, of course in public, that would 381 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 2: be to draw attention. I didn't talk to the family 382 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,399 Speaker 2: about being gay, but I didn't feel that I was 383 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 2: living a repressed life. I had to rather be taught that. 384 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 2: It was only when the government wanted to pass a 385 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 2: law to restrict how much schools could discuss homosexuality that 386 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 2: I realized that I was being treated by the law 387 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 2: as a second class citizen, and this particularly law was 388 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 2: going to make it worse. That I got annoyed and 389 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 2: angry and joined in the fight to stop Section twenty eight, 390 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 2: and then and then the other laws that already existed. 391 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: And then stonewall Yes. 392 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 2: Which we did through the lobby group Stonewall that. 393 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: Brought you into an engaged with your success as an 394 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: actor and being traveling. Did you travel to other countries? 395 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: Did you arrive in France or Italy or Germany? And 396 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 1: think this is also completely as. 397 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 2: Far as food is concerned, food, food. 398 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: Or culture or just being in a foreign country. What 399 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: did that make you? 400 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 2: Yes, think again, in my childhood, a visit abroad was 401 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:23,959 Speaker 2: a very unusual thing. 402 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: Did you go abroad with your parents? 403 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 2: My mother never left the country. My father, who liked 404 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 2: walking and climbing mountains, was a bit more adventurous, and 405 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 2: he did go abroad during my childhood to Germany, where 406 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 2: we had connections with German Christians who'd corresponded with during 407 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 2: the war. And in nineteen fifty four I went to 408 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 2: Germany with my dad and I had my first glass 409 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 2: of wine on sailing up the Rhine. 410 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: Disgusting. 411 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 2: It was white wine. It was just like sour. It 412 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 2: was so sour. Perhaps it was sour, Perhaps it was 413 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 2: a bit of old cheap wine. 414 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,919 Speaker 1: But now, when you travel for work or when you travel, 415 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 1: do you enjoy thinking about a different culture of food? 416 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 1: You know, if you go to Italy, where do you go? 417 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 2: You go to France and it's all meat, isn't it? 418 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 2: And I don't eat meat except occasional pork pie, occasional sausage. 419 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 1: That's what Richard Air said. I asked Richard Air about you, 420 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: and he said he's a vegetarian, but a few lapses everyone. 421 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 2: But I'm not a strict vegetarian. It's just I don't 422 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 2: have a taste for meat, so I don't feel guilty 423 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 2: when I have a little sausage. Christmas is all the 424 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 2: trimmings I like, I don't like. I don't want the take. 425 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: All those feasts in Shakespeare tell me the Clays with 426 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 1: a great feasts you Well, it's a joke. 427 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 2: That the actors in the old days, working these regional companies, 428 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:13,880 Speaker 2: not being paid enough money or getting enough to eat, 429 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 2: would say, we're doing check off. There's a practical pork 430 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 2: high in the third act, so stage management will provide 431 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 2: them that you could actually eat free, free food. So 432 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 2: that's the eating that I remember as check off, rather 433 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 2: than Macbeth, where there's a feast going on. But I 434 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 2: don't think macbeths in a fit state looking at the 435 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 2: ghost of a man who's killed to be bothered about 436 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 2: what's on the table. 437 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: If you like listening to Ruthie's Table for would you 438 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 1: please make sure to rate and review the podcast on 439 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:03,399 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 440 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: Thank you tell me about your movie the critic. 441 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 2: It's written by Patrick Marber, who's a wonderful playwriter and 442 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 2: screenplay writer. And he rather alluringly he said to me 443 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,360 Speaker 2: when he sent the script, this is the best part 444 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 2: I've ever written, but you thought, oh, I better play 445 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:29,360 Speaker 2: it before somebody else gets hold of it. And it's 446 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 2: about a critic in the nineteen thirties. It's all set 447 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 2: in that dreadful decade. Really, when fascism is around the corner, 448 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 2: I won't know, it's on the streets. And my character 449 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:46,239 Speaker 2: is a critic, major drama critic, who's gay, living at 450 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 2: a time and it was absolutely illegal to be gay. 451 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:54,160 Speaker 2: It's when he is in danger of losing his job 452 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,920 Speaker 2: that his true nature emerges and he turns into a 453 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 2: rather a raw school would be too milder term monstrous behavior. 454 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 2: It's a thriller, I suppose, but people behaving very badly 455 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 2: to each other, but you understand why they're doing it. 456 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: What about when you went to New Zealand, when you 457 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 1: did Lord of the Rings? What was that? 458 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 2: Oh? Now, Lord of the Rings refilmed nearly twenty five 459 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 2: years ago in New Zealand. And I had no great 460 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 2: anticipation that New Zealand would be a source of exciting food, 461 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 2: but things were beginning to change in New Zealand, and 462 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 2: so there was a new sort of cuisine arriving fish 463 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 2: often and the Jacksons, Peter Jackson and his wife partner 464 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 2: were very alert to providing good food and I looked 465 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 2: forward to the lunches there every day. They were wonderful. 466 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 2: It was a choice of food and the standard of 467 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 2: cooking was amazing, very good puddings. 468 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: A lot of directors say they don't like to stop 469 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: for lunch. What do you feel about it? 470 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 2: Well, they haven't had to get up as early as 471 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 2: the actors to go to make up and get to 472 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 2: the vacation. The best place to film is in Italy, 473 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 2: where everything stops at noon and you take off three hours, 474 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 2: three hours to eat and have a rest, and then 475 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 2: go back and work till the evening. Food's terribly important 476 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 2: on the film, as it is with a fighting army. 477 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 1: And this is my last question. After a really interesting 478 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: and beautiful conversation about your life and your childhood and 479 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: your mother and how food connected you through those experiences. 480 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: I think I'd like to know when you need food, 481 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 1: not because you're hungry or because you're sharing, but you 482 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: want a sense of comfort. Is there something that you 483 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: would go to Yes. 484 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 2: Two things both involved toast, hot buttered toast, a smear 485 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 2: of marmite, oh, fresh sliced tomatoes, salt pepper, mayonnaise, mayonnaise 486 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 2: on top of the tomatoes. Do you think that's the 487 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 2: wrong thing to do. 488 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: As an American? The one thing I have not I've 489 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: learned very much about your country, and I two things 490 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: actually I don't really understand. One is cricket and the 491 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: other is more mite. You don't get marmite, I'm not 492 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: really Richard did. Richard loved marmite, but I not. 493 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 2: You don't. 494 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: But the mayonnaise I've never heard. I know about the 495 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: butter and the marmite and the tomatoes. But I'm sitting 496 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: here with three other British. 497 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 2: I promise we should shoot it just livens up the 498 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 2: taste buds. But and the textures are interesting. And the 499 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 2: other would be hot buttered toast with scrambled eggs. It's 500 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 2: how glad. It's my stepmother made. My mother always used 501 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 2: to do scrambled eggs if we were likely enough to 502 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 2: have them, putting some butter and a drop of milk 503 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 2: in the pan and getting that melted before adding the 504 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 2: already whisked egg and even then the eggs would sometimes 505 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 2: separate at the end and you were left with a 506 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 2: lot of curd and horrible. Dad is his recipe from 507 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 2: her mother was you put everything in the pan straight away. 508 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,479 Speaker 2: So in you go with a couple of eggs, if 509 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 2: it's one person, a nice dollop of salted butter, some pepper, 510 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 2: a drop of milk or cream. Put it on a 511 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 2: low heat and just keep stirring and it'll start making 512 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 2: stop sigidifying, and you can pick the exact moment when 513 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 2: it's ready and put it on the hot buttered toast 514 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 2: which you've got waiting. It feels nutritious. It reminds me 515 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 2: of my childhood when scrambled eggs was a real treat 516 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 2: and it's very easy to do. 517 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: Okay, we'll make it. Well, listeners, let's listen to this 518 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: very easy recipe. We've had in McKellen to ourselves. We've 519 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 1: had stories to listen to, and now we have two recipes. 520 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: So it's been a lucky day. But most of all, 521 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: it's being with you I and hearing your stories. 522 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 2: It's lovely to see you and I should never forget 523 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 2: going with you and Richard to Paris. Oh, you took 524 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 2: me there. He was having an exhibition and his pompey 525 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 2: Do Center. And when he arrived there and walked into 526 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 2: the exhibition space, and there were a lot of Tyro 527 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 2: architects that they couldn't believe the great man was there 528 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 2: in person, and what a star he was, and he 529 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 2: loved you really, and I know that he was so handsome. 530 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 2: And if you hadn't already got. 531 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 1: I was watching it. Thank you, Ian, It's lovely, lovely 532 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: to