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Speaker 1: Well, hey there everyone, Hey everybody, how's it going out there? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I hope everybody's good. Welcome back to the show. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for listening. Absolutely very excited about this story. I

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Speaker 1: didn't know any of this stuff about Frederick Douglas. Oh no,

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Speaker 1: this is totally eye opening to me. Ye, mind opening,

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Speaker 1: all of the everything is opened up now everything well, alright,

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Speaker 1: like it's a Frederick Douglas story. Let's take our minds

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Speaker 1: out of the gutter. Please, We've got we've got stories

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Speaker 1: for that. Don't worry this one. Um no, but it's

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Speaker 1: so excited to have you back. Everybody had a great weekend.

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Speaker 1: We had a nice time. You know, our friends Cherry

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Speaker 1: and Jason of course recently on the show. We got

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Speaker 1: to hang out with them. Really nice time. We get

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Speaker 1: to go see some my old friends from like high

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Speaker 1: school days and onwards and uh, and then we got

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Speaker 1: to see The Batman, which is so good, guys, it's

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Speaker 1: so good, really so good. I was expecting to I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know what I was expecting. I

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Speaker 1: think I was really like, don't get excited, don't get scared,

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Speaker 1: just go to the Batman, like it's our six Batman.

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Speaker 1: This year and uh, but I don't know. I liked it,

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Speaker 1: but then we saw The Lost City was so fun. Look,

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Speaker 1: they just don't make movies like that anymore, and they

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Speaker 1: need to. It was so much fun. It was just

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Speaker 1: a good time. It's like, yeah, a good time. I'm

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Speaker 1: just having fun watching this for real. Daniel Radcliffe was

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Speaker 1: having a bell last making it so much fun. Channing

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Speaker 1: Tatums hilarious. Sandy b is phenomenal as always as she

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Speaker 1: has been from day one. Sandy Be just on the

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Speaker 1: ridiculous romance front. I did love that STI what was it?

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Speaker 1: A couple of different talk shows where Keanu Reeves confessed

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Speaker 1: that he had a big crush on her when they're

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Speaker 1: making speed, and she confessed that she had a big

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Speaker 1: crush on him and they were making speed and they

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Speaker 1: never said anything. Kind a Sandy Be Keanu Reeves thing.

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Speaker 1: Instead of whoever she ended up marrying. She well, actually,

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Speaker 1: we probably should do Sandy Be on this show because

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Speaker 1: she married that former white supremacist or whatever and she

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Speaker 1: never knew about it. Something like that. You know what,

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Speaker 1: there should be a podcast about it somewhere. Someone should

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Speaker 1: really dig into that story. It's like this kind of

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Speaker 1: like relationship. That's just um, it's just ridiculous, and somebody

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Speaker 1: ought to do a podcast about it. If y'all think

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Speaker 1: of anyone who should do that show, let us know,

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Speaker 1: maybe tell them. But you're not here for celebs. You're

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Speaker 1: not here for movie reviews. Much as we could go

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Speaker 1: into it, but no, today we are not talking about

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Speaker 1: Sandy b. We're not talking about any one of them.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about Frederick Douglas. Baby, one and only. You

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Speaker 1: might know Frederick Douglas as a famous escaped slave and

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Speaker 1: an abolitionist and an amazing orator and a statesman and

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Speaker 1: an author and all these amazing achievements. But did you

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Speaker 1: know that ladies loved him? Oh, Freddie friends, he was

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Speaker 1: the LLL cool J of his time. L L Freddie D.

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Speaker 1: Ladies love the D D love Freddy D. But seriously,

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Speaker 1: this is so interesting to read more about him and

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Speaker 1: and and look into his relationships, because a lot more

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Speaker 1: of his legacy should be credited to the women around him,

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Speaker 1: more than I ever knew, and I think more than

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Speaker 1: many people ever knew. So I'm very excited to share

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Speaker 1: this story with all of you. And let's hear more

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Speaker 1: about his wife, Anna Murray and all the other women

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Speaker 1: who helped Frederick Douglas become the man that he was

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Speaker 1: and preserve his legacy for future generation. Let's go pay

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Speaker 1: their friends come listen well, Eli and Diana got some

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Speaker 1: stories to tell. No matchmaking, a romantic tips, It's just

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Speaker 1: about pridiculous relation, shift a lover. It might be any

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Speaker 1: type of person at all, and abstract cons an't a

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Speaker 1: concrete wall. But if there's a story with the second glance,

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Speaker 1: ridiculous roles. A production of I Heart Radio. Frederick Douglas

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Speaker 1: was born Frederick Augustus Washington Bailey in Maryland in February

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Speaker 1: eighteen seventeen or eighteen eighteen. The records are not great. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they were great at records back then. Well, not of

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Speaker 1: especially of enslaved people. Of enslaved people. They're like, who

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Speaker 1: needs to write this down? And yes, he was enslaved.

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Speaker 1: His mother was enslaved, so he was as well. And

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Speaker 1: it's widely accepted that his father was white. He wrote

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Speaker 1: himself that it was whispered around that his master was

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Speaker 1: his father, but he never got confirmation of that, so

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Speaker 1: it's not known but an all too common story. His

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Speaker 1: exact birthdate is unknown, but Frederick chose to celebrate his

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Speaker 1: birthday on February fourte because his mother would call him

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Speaker 1: her little Vali time cute is very cute. And even

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Speaker 1: though he was separated from his mother during infancy what

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Speaker 1: Frederick called quote a common custom in Maryland, she lived

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Speaker 1: twelve miles away, so she was able to visit him

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Speaker 1: a few times before her death when Frederick was only seven.

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Speaker 1: So in his childhood, Frederick was sent to serve Hugh

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Speaker 1: Auld and his wife Sophia in Baltimore, Maryland. When he

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Speaker 1: was about twelve, Sophia all started to teach him the alphabet.

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Speaker 1: Sophia had always been kind to Frederick. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: as kind as you know an enslaver can be to

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Speaker 1: their enslaved person. I suppose, um, but you know, on

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Speaker 1: that relative scale, she was relatively kind. She made sure

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Speaker 1: that he got enough food and warm, clean clothes, and

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Speaker 1: Frederick wrote about her that she treated him quote as

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Speaker 1: she supposed one human being ought to treat another, just

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Speaker 1: a little backhanded way to be like idea, well what

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Speaker 1: a concept? What have we treated people as if we

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Speaker 1: felt like we're supposed to treat them? But Sophia's husband

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Speaker 1: Hugh told her stop teaching Frederick how to read and write.

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Speaker 1: He thought literacy was going to encourage enslave people to

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Speaker 1: desire freedom, which what a concept. Teaching him his letters

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Speaker 1: any day now he'll decide he's worth something. Right. So,

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Speaker 1: after Hugh said, you know, if enslave people learned to

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Speaker 1: read and write, then they'll want their freedom, Frederick wrote,

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Speaker 1: quote very well, thought I knowledge unfits a child to

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Speaker 1: be a slave. I instinctively assented to the proposition, and

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Speaker 1: from that moment I understood the direct pathway from slavery

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Speaker 1: to freedom. So he's like, thanks for the idea, boss,

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Speaker 1: You're right. If I learn more, I can get the

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Speaker 1: hell out of this hell hole. Is that what it takes? Well,

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Speaker 1: let me do that, so I will well. Unfortunately, Sophia

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Speaker 1: also assented to this proposition. Under her husband's influence, she

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Speaker 1: came to agree that slaves should not know how to

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Speaker 1: read and write. So she decided to stop teaching Frederick

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Speaker 1: to read, and she would like snatch newspapers out of

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Speaker 1: his hands. She even hid her Bible from him so

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Speaker 1: he couldn't read it, which is just so funny. Again,

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Speaker 1: just hiding the knowledge of the Lord seems like, kind

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Speaker 1: of runner intuitive what you're trying to do, but whatever,

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Speaker 1: that's right. I also want to jump in and say

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Speaker 1: one thing that I do kind of love about this

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Speaker 1: is that this man who was an enslaver is the

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Speaker 1: very guy who gave Frederick Douglas the impulse to go

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Speaker 1: out and make something of himself. So congratulations, he played yourself,

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Speaker 1: I know, right. And he was like, oh, if you

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Speaker 1: learned how to read, you won't be a slave anymore.

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Speaker 1: He's like, bet, I will learn how to read. I

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Speaker 1: would love to go back and in a time machine

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Speaker 1: and find that guy and be like, hey, guess what

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Speaker 1: you did. You contributed to one of the prominent figures

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Speaker 1: who ended slavery. Asshole, Well, isn't that the main thing? Like,

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Speaker 1: isn't that the thing you create? You when you oppressed people,

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Speaker 1: you always create your own destruction destructors or whatever. That

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Speaker 1: there's a whole phrase for saying it wrong, but anyway,

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Speaker 1: exactly that's what he did. So yeah, she was like,

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Speaker 1: oh my bad, let me stop teaching this guy how

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Speaker 1: to read. But it was too late. Frederick had learned

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Speaker 1: enough from Sophia that he was able to continue in

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Speaker 1: secret and teach himself and he observed like white shoulder

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Speaker 1: and he kind of like watched what they read, or

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Speaker 1: he would look over their shoulder and listen to them,

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Speaker 1: like sounding things out and stuff, and just continue to

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Speaker 1: teach himself in secret how to read and write, and

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Speaker 1: at some point learned that his mother had also been

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Speaker 1: literate and had taught herself how to read and write,

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Speaker 1: and he was like, he would point to that fact

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Speaker 1: a lot with a lot of pride because he was

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Speaker 1: just like, she snatched that knowledge and away from them

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Speaker 1: basically because they didn't want to give it to her,

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Speaker 1: and made, you know, she made that happen for herself.

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Speaker 1: And he was really proud of that. This is incredible

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Speaker 1: to me. And the idea of just like staring at

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Speaker 1: words until you learn how to be like that takes

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Speaker 1: a real level of intelligence and dedication to teach yourself

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Speaker 1: something without someone coming in and telling you, you know, well,

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Speaker 1: let's start here, this is how it is totally well

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Speaker 1: and then I mean, when I was in China, one

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Speaker 1: of our tour guides talked about learning English by listening

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Speaker 1: to the radio in English and just listened until she

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Speaker 1: could understand what they was saying. And I was just

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Speaker 1: like insane, just especially, I mean, at least written. You've

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Speaker 1: got the same thing over and over again. Radio you

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Speaker 1: just listen to people talk and you have to make

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Speaker 1: sense of so much and without someone saying, okay, well,

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Speaker 1: let me give you a five code words, like I'll

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Speaker 1: translate these five words into your native language and you

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Speaker 1: can at least use that as context to figure out

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Speaker 1: the rest. But to go from nothing. But the Batman

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Speaker 1: himself could not decipher English from the radio, and him

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Speaker 1: he didn't know it. Frederick Douglas, you heard it here first.

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Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas better than the Batman. So yeah, Frederick Douglas

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Speaker 1: learned how to read, learned how to write. He was

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Speaker 1: hired out to the Freeland family and he started whole

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Speaker 1: holding Sunday school sessions there and he would teach other

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Speaker 1: slaves how to read and write as well, and something

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Speaker 1: like forty people would come to this Sunday school. And

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Speaker 1: I guess the Freeland family was sort of like cool

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Speaker 1: with us. They're pretty complacent. They sound kind of like

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Speaker 1: the Benedict Cumberbatch character from Slaver was sort of like,

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Speaker 1: quote unquote one of the good ones. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'll still buy you and consider your property, but I

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Speaker 1: won't treat you like ship while I do it um

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Speaker 1: So anyway, I think it was kind of their vibe.

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Speaker 1: But because slaves from other plantations were coming to this

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Speaker 1: Sunday school to learn how to read and write, those owners,

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Speaker 1: those masters and enslavers were very angry about this whole scenario,

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Speaker 1: and at one point they busted into the Bible study

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Speaker 1: with clubs and stones to break it up permanently, and

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Speaker 1: that was the end of that. So, as a result

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Speaker 1: of all this, Frederick's own enslaver, Thomas Auld, sent him

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Speaker 1: to work for ed Word Covey, who was this poor

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Speaker 1: farmer who was known as a slave breaker. Now Frederick

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Speaker 1: is only sixteen at this point, and he was whipped

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Speaker 1: and beaten so frequently that his wounds didn't even have

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Speaker 1: time to heal. He wrote that the beatings broke his mind, body,

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Speaker 1: and spirit. But one day he turned on Edward and

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Speaker 1: fought back, and after that he was never beaten again. So,

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Speaker 1: when he was around twenty years old, Frederick was working

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Speaker 1: as a caulker down at the docks in Baltimore, and

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Speaker 1: one day he met a woman there named Anna Murray.

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Speaker 1: Anna had seven older brothers and sisters who had been

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Speaker 1: born into slavery, But only a month before Anna was born,

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Speaker 1: her mother and father were manumitted, and manumission is when

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Speaker 1: a slave owner voluntarily freeze their slaves, whereas emancipation is

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Speaker 1: when the government makes you do it. So Anna and

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Speaker 1: her four younger siblings were born free man a month.

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Speaker 1: You know. Was that some luck right there? And it

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Speaker 1: doesn't say if her older siblings had been manumented as well.

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Speaker 1: We just kind of hope. So do you think these

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Speaker 1: these manumission slaveholders just like woke up and looked in

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Speaker 1: the mirror one day and we're like, what the fuck

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Speaker 1: am I doing? Yeah? I kind of. I mean, well,

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Speaker 1: that's the thing is that it's so interesting to read

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Speaker 1: more about um the lead up to the Civil War,

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Speaker 1: and that's part of this story because it just kind

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Speaker 1: of proves how like slavery was not super popular it

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Speaker 1: after we declared our independence and said there should be equality,

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Speaker 1: A lot of people read that and we're like, I

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Speaker 1: take that for real seriously, and this does not it

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Speaker 1: doesn't make sense together. I can't look at this slavery

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Speaker 1: institution and also feel proud of my freaking free country

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Speaker 1: that everybody's free in because everybody in late seventeen hundred

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Speaker 1: stood up and said, that's right, we will no longer

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Speaker 1: be slaves to King Joe. Oh wait a second, what

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Speaker 1: did I say? Did you say slave? Yeah, that's not

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Speaker 1: so good. Are we doing that? Wait a minute. But

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Speaker 1: they all, you know a lot of them to Like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, Thomas Jefferson manumated some of his slaves. George

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Speaker 1: Washington manumated all of his but in his will after

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Speaker 1: he was dead, you know what I mean. So they're

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Speaker 1: all like just later, like I don't want to do it,

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Speaker 1: but like y'all should do it. I think we talked

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Speaker 1: about a little in governor more just taking the can

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Speaker 1: down the road a little bit. I also just want

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Speaker 1: to just want to throw a shout out to Anna's mom,

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Speaker 1: who popped out twelve babies, oh my god, most of

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Speaker 1: them while she was enslaved herself. Right, good for you.

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying, well, yeah, we're over here, like a baby.

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Speaker 1: That would really cramp my style. She's rocking twelve in

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Speaker 1: and out of enslavement, my god. Um anyway, so Anna

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Speaker 1: was born free and she was a very resourceful woman,

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Speaker 1: obviously with a big emily um so by the time

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Speaker 1: she was seventeen, She's taken in laundry. She's working as

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Speaker 1: a housekeeper, paying bills, you know, getting shipped done. And

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Speaker 1: some sources say that this work took her to the

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Speaker 1: docks and that's how she met Frederick, who was you know,

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Speaker 1: culking culking something, I guess. But another source South Coast

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Speaker 1: Today says that they met in a group called East

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Speaker 1: Baltimore Mental Improvement Society, and that was a group that was,

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Speaker 1: you know, formed for free black men and women. But

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Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas, who was still enslaved at this time, was

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Speaker 1: allowed in because he knew how to read and write,

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Speaker 1: and he was also just a very eloquent speaker, and

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Speaker 1: that was a plus because one of the main activities

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Speaker 1: of the group was giving lectures and you know, speeches

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Speaker 1: about I guess mental improvement. But I think that we

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Speaker 1: should just because no one really knows. It's not recorded anywhere,

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Speaker 1: but I thought we could maybe pull into Speculation Station

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Speaker 1: and tell people how they met, how Frederick and Anna met.

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Speaker 1: I just picture like a real smooth talking Frederick Douglas.

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Speaker 1: I don't feel like he had a line. He had

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Speaker 1: had He was pretty handsome, so I feel like he know,

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Speaker 1: he was probably a hey, girl, what's in that basket?

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't have any game? Well, no, yeah,

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Speaker 1: she she walks up and she's he's you know, he's

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Speaker 1: working on a ship or something. She's like impressive cock,

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Speaker 1: and he's like, excuse me, thank you? So Anna had games? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was an Anna came at like that. I mean

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Speaker 1: he left the door wide open working as a cocker.

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Speaker 1: I think he would have. What would you say, though,

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Speaker 1: if you saw a pretty laundress walking down the street

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Speaker 1: with her laundry basket and you were like, I got

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Speaker 1: to talk to her, what would I say? I don't know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: first of all, I'm gonna have game either. I've never

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Speaker 1: the only way I've ever dated women is by already

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Speaker 1: being friends with them for many years. Okay, that's true.

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Speaker 1: So that's what I would do. I would invite her

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Speaker 1: to join my theater company, and in a few years

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Speaker 1: down the line, I'd wait for her to make a

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Speaker 1: move on me. That's hey, It's worked every time. I think. Ultimately,

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Speaker 1: the real challenge here is me trying to imagine anything

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Speaker 1: about what Frederick Douglas would feel like in any given situation. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I think I'm just gonna leave that one in

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Speaker 1: speculation station. All right, Well, I liked the cult jokes

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Speaker 1: we came up with anyway, Yeah, exactly so. Anna herself

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Speaker 1: was about five years older than Frederick, and her freedom

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Speaker 1: made Frederick believe that he could be free too. He

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Speaker 1: had tried once before to escape slavery about four or

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Speaker 1: five years earlier when he was working for the freelance

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Speaker 1: but that had been unsuccessful. But after meeting Anna for

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Speaker 1: the first time since then, he started plotting his escape.

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Speaker 1: But this time he had an ace up his sleeve.

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Speaker 1: Anna herself. She sold one of her feather beds and

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Speaker 1: gave him part of her life savings to fund his

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Speaker 1: escape out of Maryland. When she took in laundry, she

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Speaker 1: would set aside pieces of sailor's clothing to give him

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Speaker 1: to wear as disguise. Frederick got his identification papers from

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Speaker 1: a free black sailor that he could travel under, and

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Speaker 1: then finally, in eighteen thirty eight, everything was ready. Frederick

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Speaker 1: escaped and made his way to the home of abolitionist

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Speaker 1: David Ruggles in New York City, and for this short

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Speaker 1: journey he was enjoying his freedom. Only twenty four hours

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Speaker 1: after leaving Maryland. He wrote of his first free day quote,

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Speaker 1: a new world had opened upon me. I lived more

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Speaker 1: in one day than in a year of my slave life.

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Speaker 1: Thinking about Ellen and William Kraft, of course, oh yes,

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Speaker 1: that is such a good episode. I must say, if

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Speaker 1: you haven't heard that one, go back and listen to

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Speaker 1: it because their escape is incredible. Just edgier seat ship

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Speaker 1: the whole time. But they had to go a thousand

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Speaker 1: miles freedom that was the name of their book. So

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Speaker 1: this was just blowing my mind that, like they had

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Speaker 1: to go a thousand miles and once they got there,

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Speaker 1: it must have felt like, well, I freaking really escaped

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Speaker 1: from something. I had to really go far away to

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Speaker 1: get away from that. Whereas he almost was like next door,

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Speaker 1: you know, and he's like looking at a free place,

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Speaker 1: and it's like I just can't get there, and I

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Speaker 1: need to get there, and I don't get money. That's

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Speaker 1: sort of my whole problem to get money for my labor,

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Speaker 1: so I have no freedom to move about. I just

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Speaker 1: think it must be so weird to just be like, man,

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Speaker 1: yesterday I was not safe and now I am absolutely Yeah,

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Speaker 1: just a totally different mindset. Just showing two different versions

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Speaker 1: of this is just yeah, and then just again. Just

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Speaker 1: to be so close and not be free yourself must

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Speaker 1: be so maddening. So yeah, he's in New York, He's

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Speaker 1: breathing free air. He feels great, and he sends for

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Speaker 1: Anna to join him. And they were married eleven days

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Speaker 1: after he escaped slavery on September thirty eight, and they

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Speaker 1: took the name Johnson, and then they moved to New Bedford,

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Speaker 1: Massachusetts to start their married life together. So their daughter,

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Speaker 1: Rosetta Douglas Sprague wrote a paper called Anna Murray Douglas,

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Speaker 1: my mother, as I recall her, and it's basically one

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Speaker 1: of the only pieces of writing that tells us anything

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Speaker 1: about Anna and her contributions to Frederick's life. And Rosetta

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Speaker 1: wrote of their duly wed life together, quote, the little

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Speaker 1: that they possessed was the outcome of the industrial and

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Speaker 1: economic habits that were characteristic of my mother. She had

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Speaker 1: brought with her sufficient goods and chattel to fit up

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Speaker 1: comfortably two rooms in her new Bedford home, a feather

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Speaker 1: bed with pillows, bed linen, dishes, knives, forks, and spoons,

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Speaker 1: besides a well filled trunk of wearing apparel, for herself.

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Speaker 1: The early days in New Bedford were spent in daily toil,

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Speaker 1: the wife at the washboard, the husband with saw buck

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Speaker 1: and ax. So you see your there's a really close team. Um.

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Speaker 1: She thought of everything, and she was just very good

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Speaker 1: at making a home out of wherever she is. It

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Speaker 1: seems like um and they both had to work incredibly

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Speaker 1: hard to keep it together those early days, and only

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Speaker 1: a couple of years later they moved to Lynn, Massachusetts,

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Speaker 1: and they stayed with a couple named Nathan and Mary Johnson.

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Speaker 1: So they get in there like George Johnson, we are Johnson.

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Speaker 1: I thought we were the Johnson's Excuse me, Mr Johnson? Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: fifty guys. So they decided that Johnson was just too

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Speaker 1: common of a name, so Frederick asked Nathan what they

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Speaker 1: should change theirs too, and Nathan had recently read the

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Speaker 1: poem Lady of the Lake and he suggested Douglas, after

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Speaker 1: one of the main characters, so they took the name

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Speaker 1: Frederick and Anna Douglas. Frederick wanted to join a white

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Speaker 1: Methodist church, but this church was segregated, so he instead

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Speaker 1: joined a black congregation that included sojourn or Truth and

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Speaker 1: Harriet Tubman as members. I feel like if I was

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Speaker 1: in that white Methodist church, I'd be like, let me

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Speaker 1: um can I also so Frederick became a preacher the

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Speaker 1: next year, which helped him hone his public speaking skills,

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Speaker 1: and he continued to join and organize with abolitionist groups.

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Speaker 1: That is when he met the famous abolitionist William Lloyd Garrison,

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Speaker 1: who ran the most radical, prominent anti slavery newspaper, The Liberator.

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Speaker 1: Each man was totally impressed with the other. Frederick said

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Speaker 1: Garrison's paper was second only to the Bible in his heart,

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Speaker 1: and they soon became close collaborators in the fight to

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Speaker 1: end slavery. And as some of the meetings that Frederick attended,

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Speaker 1: he would be invited to speak, and like every time

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Speaker 1: he talked, people were like, holy shit, this guy's amazing. Um,

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Speaker 1: he really impressed the crowd. He had so eloquent, his

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Speaker 1: delivery was amazing. He had great presence, but also his

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Speaker 1: personal story was just incredibly stirring. He could talk about

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Speaker 1: life in slavery, life escaping slavery, living basically illegally as

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Speaker 1: a freeman. And they also thought that his eloquence and

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Speaker 1: education made him kind of a great living example of

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Speaker 1: how dumb it was to think that black people are

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Speaker 1: inherently inferior to white people. You know. They were just like,

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Speaker 1: if you withhold education, obviously people are going to be uneducated,

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Speaker 1: but not because they're just unable to learn. At this

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Speaker 1: guy he taught himself what you teach yourself, William Lloyd Garrison.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, so they were basically like, oh, this is

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Speaker 1: a really good you know again example capital e of

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Speaker 1: a good black man. I guess that we can use

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Speaker 1: as a good mascot people. They always need to hear

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Speaker 1: that ship right, and we you know, respectability politics aside.

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00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 1: That was really important at the time. So Frederick was

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00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 1: encouraged to become an anti slavery lecturer, and so he

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00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 1: took his first six month lecture tour in eighteen forty

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Speaker 1: three throughout the Eastern and Midwestern states, talking about slavery.

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Speaker 1: In Indiana, he was badly beaten by slavery supporters after

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Speaker 1: one of his speeches, and his hand was broken in

400
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Speaker 1: the attack. He actually had to be rescued by a

401
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 1: Quaker couple and it healed improperly and bothered him for

402
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 1: the rest of his life. And in five he published

403
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Speaker 1: the first edition of his autobiography. Now, Anna was part

404
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,119
Speaker 1: of abolition organization efforts too. She was active in a

405
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 1: group called the Boston Female Anti Slavery Society or be

406
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Speaker 1: Fast acronym myself Shake the Fast, Watch Yourself bf S

407
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: the Boston Female as no sending that by the time

408
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Speaker 1: Frederick was publishing his autobiography, they already had four children

409
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Speaker 1: to get there. There was Rosetta who was born in

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Speaker 1: eighteen thirty nine, Lewis Henry in eighteen forty, Frederick Jr.

411
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 1: In eighteen forty two, and Charles Rimond into But Anna

412
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 1: did even more than that. Frederick's work lecturing and writing

413
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 1: about slavery didn't pay that well, so Anna supported the

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00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: family financially. She took in laundry, she learned how to

415
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 1: make shoes. The family leaned on her even more after

416
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 1: Frederick's life story was published, because people thought his growing

417
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 1: fame as a speaker would attract the attention of Thomas

418
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Speaker 1: and Hugh Auld, Frederick's enslavers, who legally legally in quotes

419
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 1: like still technically had ownership of him, like he had escaped,

420
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 1: so they could go to the courts and say this

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00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 1: guy belongs to me and taken back outrageous. So he

422
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 1: had to get the hell out of there to avoid

423
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Speaker 1: being tracked down and sent back into slavery. So he

424
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,479
Speaker 1: hopped a boat and took off for Ireland and Great Britain.

425
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 1: Again like the Crafts who also had to escape to

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00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: England in a while because they were being searched for

427
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: and they had to be housed and people had to

428
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 1: hide them away from fugitive slave fugitive catchers or whatever

429
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: they were called. Yeah, you had to put an ocean

430
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 1: between you and those guys to get away. And again

431
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 1: it wasn't that long ago that you know, we're right

432
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 1: in the Constitution and saying what a great country this is,

433
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: and it I think William Kraft wrote about it where

434
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 1: he was like, it was very strange to have to

435
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: leave my great country in order to experience freedom and

436
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 1: and safety of movements and protection under the law, protection

437
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: and safety in the very country that you that the

438
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,959
Speaker 1: United States escaped from exactly all of their oppressive laws.

439
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 1: So it's a disconnect. Yeah, yeah, you know. So he's

440
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 1: in Ireland and Great Britain and his lectures there would

441
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 1: be backed to bursting with interested listeners, and you know,

442
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: things weren't great in Ireland at the time. A fungus

443
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: had just killed off half the potato crop for that year,

444
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: which is big in Ireland. But even amongst all that,

445
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 1: Frederick was astounded at what it was like to live

446
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: in a place without racial discrimination. He wrote, quote, I

447
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 1: gaze around in vain for one who will question my

448
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: equal humanity, or claim me as his slave, or offer

449
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 1: me an insult. I employ a cab, I am seated

450
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: by white people. I reached the hotel, I enter the

451
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 1: same door, I am shown the same parlor, I dine

452
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 1: at the same table, and no one is offended. I

453
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: find myself regarded and treated at every turn with the

454
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 1: kindness and deference paid to white people. It must have

455
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:51,919
Speaker 1: been so hard for them to do that, you know

456
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 1: what I mean? All that, No, it wasn't hard. It

457
00:26:55,560 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 1: was like, it's incredible to me that. I mean, I

458
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 1: know there's a whole lot of racism going on in England.

459
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: And we've spoken before about for how many years before

460
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: the Declaration of Independence was signed, England was definitely profiting

461
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: off slavery in the US, but they got rid of

462
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: it before we did. And according to people like the

463
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: Crafts and Frederick Douglas. It was a whole. It was

464
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 1: a paradise comparatively, you know, in terms of racial discrimination.

465
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: Obviously it's frustrating just looking back through history, but then

466
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: thinking about being in that time and having two such

467
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: obvious start contrasts to look at it, look at and say,

468
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: but but it's fine. It's the modern world in both places.

469
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 1: How come one of you is so backwards. It's really

470
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: interesting because, as you say, there's certainly racism in other countries. Yeah,

471
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: that terrible, bad racism. But um, I also know that

472
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,360
Speaker 1: there is a very speci ific racism directed towards African

473
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:06,199
Speaker 1: Americans particularly. And there was this guy who he was

474
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: from Africa and he came to America and he was

475
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: talking on one podcast and I wish I could remember

476
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 1: it was it was like a food he's like a

477
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: chef guy. I think it was point of origin. Um.

478
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 1: But he was talking about coming to America and working

479
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 1: as a chef or as a cook and in the

480
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: kitchens and stuff. And he was like, and people would

481
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,959
Speaker 1: be so horrible to me, and then they would hear

482
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: my accent and it was like I was a better

483
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 1: black person because I wasn't from America. I was really

484
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: from Africa, and I was like, that's so interesting to

485
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 1: see that change happened right in front of you, that

486
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: they think you're American and then suddenly you're oh you're

487
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: Oh you're not. You're not a black American. So you're different,

488
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 1: like better in some way or you deserve more respect

489
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: or something. I don't know. It was just like we

490
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: because we're trying to ascribe logic. Who are racists brain?

491
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: You know, and there's no logic and racism, you know,

492
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: it doesn't make any sense. There's no way you can

493
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: put it where you go, oh well okay, well that

494
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: logically that makes it. There is none of that, you

495
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:12,239
Speaker 1: know what there is though, commercial crap. Sorry we've been

496
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: going on. It is time for a commercial break and

497
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: we will be right back with more after this and

498
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. So Frederick Douglass spent two

499
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: years overseas lucky, right, Like, I'm rarely going to say

500
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas was lucky. I'll just say it this month.

501
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: But it sucks that he had to be there for

502
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: that long. Seriously, he had to be away from Anna.

503
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: This wasn't a vacation. Yeah, he couldn't go home, so

504
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: he spent two years away from everyone. He was lecturing

505
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: and befriending British abolitionists. And while he was there, his supporters,

506
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: led by two women, Anna Richardson and her sister in

507
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: law Ellen of Newcastle upon Time, which I just love.

508
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: I love those British um they raised the money to

509
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: purchase his freedom from the all but so that he

510
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: would be able to go back to America legally amazing.

511
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: And of course everyone wanted him to stay in England

512
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: because they were like, you're amazing, Frederick Douglas. I guess

513
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: they were like, you're amazing, Frederick Douglas. Yeah, you know, so, yeah,

514
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: everyone wants him to stay in England. But Frederick has

515
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: his family back home. He's like, I want to go home.

516
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: And plus, not to mention, there was three nearly four

517
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: million black people living in slavery still and he felt like,

518
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: I have work to do at home, so he chose

519
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 1: to go back in and he and Anna were really

520
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 1: attracted by the very active abolitionists and women's rights movements

521
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: that were going on in Rochester, New York. Shout out

522
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: to Rochester, so they moved their family from Massachusetts to

523
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: Rochester and Frederick had five hundred pounds from his British supporters, which,

524
00:30:55,680 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: if I can pull out the calculators, that's nearly forty

525
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: seven thousand dollars today. So he got he took a

526
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: two year trip to the UK and came back with

527
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: dollars more than he left with. That is the opposite

528
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: of what would happen does We definitely left our money there,

529
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: But I think that's cool. They raised not only enough

530
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: money to purchase himself, which is a weird thing to say,

531
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: but whatever, enough money for that, and also this extra money, Um,

532
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: that's pretty rad. So it just goes to show how

533
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: popular he was over there. And he used this money

534
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 1: to start his own abolitionist newspaper, North Star, in the

535
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: basement of the Memorial A. M. E. Zion Church, and

536
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: he and Anna also used their house as a stop

537
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 1: on the Underground railroad and they provided safeboard, clean clothes

538
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: and food to fugitives on their way to Canada. Anna

539
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: of course main coordinator of that work because it's all

540
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 1: about domestic stuff, but their kids also pitched in. Their

541
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: son Charles wrote later on in his life quote, we

542
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: have often had to get up at midnight to admit

543
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: a sleigh load and start fires to thaw the fugitives out.

544
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: Every member of the family had to lend a hand

545
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: to this work, and it was always cheerfully performed. Now,

546
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: the North Star got glowing reviews, but they did struggle financially.

547
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: Not everyone in Rochester was happy to have yet another

548
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: anti slavery newspaper published in their town, particularly when it

549
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: was edited by a former slave. The New York Herald

550
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: even encouraged its readers to dump Frederick's printing press into Lake, Ontario.

551
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: Frederick returned to the lecturing circuit to pay for the

552
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: costs of producing the newspaper, and even ended up putting

553
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: a mortgage on his house, but subscriptions grew slowly. But

554
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: then a British friend, a white woman named Julia Griffiths,

555
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,479
Speaker 1: came in and helped him out, and that brings us

556
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: to this episode's first side piece, May I help? Julia

557
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: Griffiths was a British abolitionist. She met Frederick Douglas while

558
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: he was in Ireland and Great Britain, and she'd been

559
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: one of the many women who helped fundraise to send

560
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: Frederick home with enough money to start North Star. So

561
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: when she heard it was struggling. She's like, oh no,

562
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 1: we can't have that. And she moved to Rochester, New York,

563
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: just moved her whole life there to become the editor

564
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: and publisher of the paper and to handle the finances

565
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: and get the money in order. And eventually, thanks to her,

566
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 1: he was able to regain the mortgage on his home

567
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 1: and the paper was on even financial footing within a

568
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 1: few years. So thanks to Julia, um and Frederick also

569
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: asked her to come live at his house in Rochester

570
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: and tutor Anna and their children. But with Anna she

571
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: did fail. Rosetta Douglas Sprague wrote about her mother quote,

572
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: Unfortunately an opportunity for knowledge of books was denied her,

573
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: the lack of which she greatly deplored. Her increasing family

574
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: and household duties prevented any great advancement. Although she was

575
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,399
Speaker 1: able to read a little, so she was a little

576
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 1: too busy to be learning everything else because she was

577
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: making it all work. She's making their homework exactly. And

578
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: also another historian, Rose O'Keefe pointed out that she was

579
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: keeping their work, you know as being part of the

580
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 1: underground railroad a secret. Also like you know, that's a

581
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 1: secret you can't tell people about that. So she was

582
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: handling a lot, a very sensitive work and sensitive information

583
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 1: and just balancing a lot in the background, makes sense,

584
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: And Anna's illiteracy and her sort of lack of polish

585
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,240
Speaker 1: kind of led to a bit of a distance between

586
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 1: her and her husband. Frederick was on the road a lot.

587
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: He's this famous abolitionist lecturer. He's hob nobbing it with

588
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,959
Speaker 1: all the notable names of the day, while Anna's back

589
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: home doing domestic work. Rosetta even wrote that because of

590
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: his frequent absences, quote, father was mother's honored guest. So

591
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: it was like, you know, vibe in the house. Yeah,

592
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 1: Like when he came home, it's like, oh, oh you're here,

593
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: let me set up a bed for you or whatever.

594
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: She's dead. It was like a flutter of activity every

595
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: time his comings and goings and important events because he

596
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 1: was such a I mean, he was coming and going

597
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 1: a lot. Many of Frederick's white contemporaries in particular, kind

598
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: of looked down on Anna. They saw no value in

599
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,879
Speaker 1: her contributions to the household. Taylor as old as time.

600
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 1: Women not getting enough credit for the very important work

601
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 1: they're doing at home, and they didn't really see much

602
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,280
Speaker 1: more of her contributions to the underground Railroad. Either maybe,

603
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: like you said, because it's a secret, it's not you're

604
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 1: not supposed to go out there and flaunt all the

605
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: work you're doing for the underground Railroad. Um. But they're

606
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 1: thinking was that she should be involved in the abolition

607
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: movement in the same way Frederick was like, that would

608
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: be more valuable, like he should be married to a

609
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: woman as smart and well spoken as he is, or

610
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: something like, No, she had smart in different ways. They

611
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 1: had different things, right, different skill sets. They also got

612
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: real racist about it. They would comment negatively about Anna's

613
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 1: dark skin, her facial features, her nose, her lips. They

614
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: always mentioned that she was quote very black, which is

615
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: just a coded way of saying that she wasn't pretty like.

616
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: That was their way of pointing out, well, she's not

617
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: pretty like I think pretty is just some more racist bullshit.

618
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: And unfortunately historians pretty much took this view as well,

619
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 1: and they kind of wrote off Anna until very recently

620
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: because now in history we're like coming to real terms

621
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: with the idea that having a home support like Anna

622
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: is what gave people like Frederick the freedom of time

623
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: and movement. To do all the world changing that they did.

624
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, we've talked about this before with even

625
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 1: some of the women who managed to do amazing things.

626
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: And you have to notice that it's partly because they

627
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 1: were pretty rich and they were comfortable, and they had

628
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: time to sit and think about the human conditions, like

629
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: when you're busy working and trying to feed yourself, you

630
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: just don't have that kind of freedom. And I think

631
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 1: people are realizing it more now because so many more

632
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: people do both and have to do both, and so

633
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, ship, what happened all the innovations, what

634
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 1: happened to all the No one has time because they

635
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,280
Speaker 1: they're doing the work that Anna was doing to write.

636
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 1: This historian leave Out, who wrote The Women in the

637
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: World of Frederick Douglas, told USA Today, quote, this is

638
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: real woman behind the man stuff. I think it's important

639
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 1: for people to remember how much he respected her and

640
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 1: relied on her. Women's history has forced people to look

641
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: at the role that women played in making great men

642
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: great now. Julia also became Frederick's office and business manager

643
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: and his almost constant companion. She arranged his lectures, she

644
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: would accompany him to meetings. She was still managing the papers,

645
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: finances and people in Rochester apparently just we're pearl clutching

646
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: for a little while and just had to get used

647
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: to seeing this black leader and his white assistant walking

648
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 1: arm in arm down the street. She was also a

649
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 1: founding member of the Rochester Ladies Anti Slavery Society, the

650
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 1: Rochester Ladies. Stop, you gotta stop about the Last, Our Last,

651
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 1: the Rochester Last. That's better than the Rochester Ladies, and

652
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 1: I think it's more respectful. She published an anthology of

653
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 1: anti slavery literature called Autographs for Freedom that was so

654
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: popular it had to have a second edition, and she

655
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 1: used the money that she raised with Our Last to

656
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: support North Star, the newspaper, as well as establishing a

657
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 1: school for freedmen in Kansas, distributing anti slavery literature in Kentucky,

658
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: and providing small cash gifts to fugitives along the underground

659
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,720
Speaker 1: Railroad to finance their journeys to freedom, because it takes

660
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 1: money to take a journey, as you know. And at

661
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: least a hundred and thirty six enslaved people were helped

662
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: by the society directly in this way. Okay, Julia, um,

663
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: So that's really dope. And I was enjoying learning about

664
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 1: these little Rochester and Boston, these these chapters of these

665
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,919
Speaker 1: anti slavery societies, because you have to remember that, like

666
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:30,800
Speaker 1: it took a lot of little community organizing to create

667
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 1: a nationwide change. And it seems just because we're so

668
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,399
Speaker 1: much taught from one war to the next, you never

669
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 1: really get the lead up. You don't hear about all

670
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 1: the really boring grassroots, annoying, tiny, small you know, one

671
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 1: step forward, two steps back, work that was happening for

672
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 1: decades before the thing actually came to fruition. So these

673
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 1: ladies were doing that hard stuff. You often feel like

674
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:59,720
Speaker 1: it takes some giant to help, you know, many millions

675
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: of p people at a time to make a big

676
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 1: difference in the world, and it has often not that.

677
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:08,800
Speaker 1: It's often this organization helped a hundred and thirty six people,

678
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: That one helped seventy Holy crap, this one helped three hundred, Like,

679
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: you know, that's I think that's how it's got to be. Yeah, Also,

680
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 1: if I can get us to pass the Bechdel test

681
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,240
Speaker 1: here real quick, do you think Julia was working with Anna?

682
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 1: Because Anna did so much fund a round railroad. I

683
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 1: imagine they must have been having some some collaborative conversations

684
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 1: as well. Right, that is a great question. I would

685
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: love to speculate about that. I think I would love

686
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 1: to just say that Julia was not a piece of

687
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 1: ship to Anna. I would like to assume that. Um,

688
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: so hopefully that'd be cool. If she's like, hey, you know,

689
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 1: like what would really help in your ground railroad And

690
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 1: she's like, well, honestly they need money to get to

691
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: Canada where Rochester were pretty close but a lot close.

692
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: They still need money. Julie is like, oh, if it's

693
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: something I know how to do, it's raised a pound

694
00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 1: or two. Yes. So by this time him Frederick was

695
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 1: also advocating for the right for women to vote. He

696
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 1: was the only black person to attend the first Women's

697
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: Rights Convention at Seneca Falls in eighty and he had

698
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,240
Speaker 1: also had a falling out with his abolitionist friend William

699
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:20,359
Speaker 1: Lloyd Garrison in eighteen seven. See Garrison felt that the

700
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: Constitution itself was inherently pro slavery because of the three

701
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 1: five clause, and he would actually go out and publicly

702
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: burn copies of the Constitution to make his point. It's

703
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 1: like this, He's like an older white guy. So I

704
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 1: just love imagining him. It's like this punk performance ars

705
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 1: like what is this document? This is garbage? Set it

706
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 1: on fire, so like radical, I love it. And at

707
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: first Frederick totally agreed with him. But later Frederick heard

708
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:59,879
Speaker 1: more persuasive arguments from Lysander Spooner examining the Constitution as

709
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 1: an anti slavery document, and this kind of changed Frederick's position,

710
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 1: and this caused one of the abolition movements most notable divisions,

711
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: because these two famous men kind of went head to

712
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: head arguing their points in their respective newspapers. Yeah and yeah,

713
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: it was just I think for Frederick Douglas. Here, you know,

714
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:22,919
Speaker 1: on one side, you've got a guy being like, funk

715
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 1: this whole document that this country is based on. And

716
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 1: on the other side, you've got a guy going, actually,

717
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 1: we could read this as this document protects freedoms of

718
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 1: all men. It says so right here, quality everywhere, Um

719
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 1: so why not use it? And I think Frederick was like,

720
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 1: which one's gonna work? And it seems a lot harder

721
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 1: to be like, let's completely rewrite the entire constitution that

722
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 1: we just wrote, or actually, we can just amend this

723
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 1: one existing one, So I think it was just more

724
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 1: about what's going to win, that's the main thing. But

725
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: shortly after they're falling out, Garrison with no real evidence,

726
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: by the way, accused Frederick and Julia of having an affair,

727
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: and so this rumor was going around for several years

728
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 1: that they were actually sleeping together and not just working together. Um,

729
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 1: and so Anna had to hear all these whisperings about

730
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 1: that ship while she was pregnant with her and Frederick's

731
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 1: fifth child, Annie, who was born at the end of

732
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 1: eighteen forty nine. There's no evidence to support this claim now,

733
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 1: and it does feel like classic bullshit behavior from someone

734
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 1: who's Mattie and also super sexist to be like, oh, well,

735
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 1: there's a woman working with you. Well, people will believe

736
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 1: it if I say that you're sleeping with her, then

737
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: you know, and uh they you know. He was accused

738
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 1: a number of times of having affairs and partly you know,

739
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: to discredit his work as an abolitionist, and it worked,

740
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 1: I guess, because it played into the stereotype of African

741
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: American men being like this over sext impossible, it can't

742
00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 1: be faithful, just totally out of control type of people.

743
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: Even back then, this that stereotype was present very much.

744
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 1: So yes, so yeah, they That's frustrating to me that

745
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:12,839
Speaker 1: Garrison did it because he supposedly cares about ending slavery,

746
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 1: but but he wants to tear down one of the

747
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: major names in the movement. Says to me, he doesn't

748
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 1: care so much about the end goal. He just cared

749
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 1: about being right. He's like, I want my argument to win,

750
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 1: so I don't really care what happens to you. Like,

751
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:27,919
Speaker 1: that's maddening to me. I don't know. Obviously I didn't

752
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: look at whim Lloyd Garrison's life story for this, but

753
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: I was mad at him in this moment. So in

754
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 1: eighteen fifty two, Julia moved out of the Douglas house,

755
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,439
Speaker 1: and she was hoping that this would kind of lay

756
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: this rumor to rest that they were having an affairs,

757
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,399
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna just kind of distance myself a little

758
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:49,720
Speaker 1: bit physically from you, Um. But they still worked together.

759
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 1: She was still a colleague of his and a confidante

760
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 1: Um as he continued his very important work in eighteen

761
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 1: fifty two. On July five, he gave his famous speech

762
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: What to the Slave Is the fourth of July, which

763
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: one biographer called quote perhaps the greatest anti slavery oration

764
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: ever given. So what do you say. We go over

765
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 1: to the podium and here's some of it. Yeah, I

766
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: feel fine reading Frederick Douglas's words. Well, we have to

767
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:25,839
Speaker 1: do that a lot on this show. But no, because

768
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: I think this is a really cool speech and it's

769
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 1: important to hear it. It is well, and we just

770
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: had a recent, you know, kind of national conversation about

771
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,240
Speaker 1: Juneteenth and why you know there might be a different

772
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 1: celebration of the freedom of this country for the black

773
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: community because they have a different from day of freedom

774
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 1: than we do then white people do. So. Yeah, So,

775
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: not playing Frederick Douglas, but rather sharing with you his words,

776
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 1: we'll read some of this speech, he says. Quote. I

777
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: say it with a sad sense of the disparity between us.

778
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 1: I am not included within the pale of this glorious anniversary.

779
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 1: Your high independence only reveals the immeasurable distance between us.

780
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 1: The blessings in which you this day rejoice are not

781
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:19,360
Speaker 1: enjoyed in common. The rich inheritance of justice, liberty, prosperity,

782
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 1: and independence bequeathed by your fathers is shared by you,

783
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 1: not by me. The sunlight that brought life and healing

784
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: to you has brought stripes and death to me. This

785
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:37,800
Speaker 1: Fourth of July is yours, not mine. You may rejoice,

786
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: I must mourn. What to the American slave is your

787
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 1: fourth of July? I answer a day that reveals to him,

788
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: more than all other days in the year, the gross

789
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 1: injustice and cruelty to which he is the constant victim.

790
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:58,280
Speaker 1: To him, your celebration is a sham, your boasted liberty

791
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 1: and unholy license, your national greatness swelling vanity. Your sounds

792
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 1: of rejoicing are empty and heartless. Your denunciation of tyrants

793
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 1: brass fronted impudence, Your shouts of liberty and equality hollow mockery.

794
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 1: Your prayers and hymns, your sermons and thanksgivings, with all

795
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 1: your religious parade and solemnity, are to him mere bombast, fraud, deception, impiety,

796
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 1: and hypocrisy, a thin veil to cover up crimes which

797
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 1: would disgrace a nation of savages. There is not a

798
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 1: nation on the earth guilty of practices more shocking and

799
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 1: bloody than are the people of these United States at

800
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 1: this very hour. Damn, I mean lays it all out

801
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 1: for you. I mean he really it's a it's a

802
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 1: long speech and he basically lays out the entire history

803
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 1: of the country so far in it. And it's very

804
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 1: interesting to see his perspective on it, and that I

805
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 1: love that he was so fiery. He did not pull punches.

806
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: He said exactly what he meant right, what was true,

807
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 1: But he didn't try to, you know, Sugarcoata for anybody.

808
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:20,280
Speaker 1: It's fascinating to me. But there were rumors about Julia

809
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 1: that were still swirling Julian and Frederick's Tarrett affair, allegedly

810
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,879
Speaker 1: thanks a lot Garss, he probably just kept bringing it up,

811
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:30,439
Speaker 1: you know, every time he did something cool, they'd be like, well,

812
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: but he is fucking a secretary or whatever, you know.

813
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 1: So Julius sees all this and she recognizes that this

814
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 1: is detrimental to the anti slavery work that needed to

815
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,799
Speaker 1: be done. So in eighteen fifty five she decided the

816
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 1: best thing to do was to go back to England,

817
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 1: and while there she did continue to write columns for

818
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: Frederick Tunklus's paper, and she continued to raise funds for

819
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: the Rochester Ladies Anti Slavery Society, and she continued to

820
00:48:56,239 --> 00:49:00,439
Speaker 1: organize other anti slavery societies as well. Eighteen de nine

821
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 1: she married a minister. Big up to Julia. You know,

822
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: she kept moving. I love too that hearing how many

823
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 1: people were working towards the cause of ending slavery in America,

824
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 1: that we weren't even in America, like that should even

825
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 1: that they don't even live here, you know what I mean?

826
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: And they're like, what is happening over there? Well, and

827
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 1: I really respect to that. She looked around and she said, well,

828
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 1: what I want is to stay here and hang out

829
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 1: with my friend Frederick and do the work that I

830
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 1: can do here. But this is bigger than me. I

831
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 1: can't just it's not about what I want. So I

832
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 1: guess the best thing for the thing that I care about,

833
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:43,319
Speaker 1: Mr Garrison is to leave Mr Garrison exactly she saw

834
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:45,839
Speaker 1: she put the goal ahead of herself, and I don't

835
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: think he did. Again, I don't have any speculation. Station

836
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 1: William Lord Garrison was like, OK, Mr Douglas in this instance,

837
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 1: it really does look like that. So that's pretty dope

838
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 1: of Julia. We like Julia here. Yeah, so far, hopefully

839
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 1: they weren't having an a fair. It would be really

840
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 1: weird for her to live in Anna's house. I would

841
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 1: not like that. We would have a real problem with

842
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 1: that an issue. But given the fact that there's no

843
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: evidence towards that affair, Frederick and Anna continued to have

844
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 1: their marriage the whole time they were there, seemingly happily,

845
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 1: you know, all things considered, I don't I don't think

846
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 1: we can assume that there was one. So we like Julia, Yeah,

847
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 1: well say, on this show, Julia is cool. Yeah, But

848
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:35,839
Speaker 1: less than a year after Julia left, another white woman

849
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: arrived in Frederick's life and caused a bit more of

850
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 1: an upset. So let's find out more about her right

851
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 1: after this commercial break and welcome back to the show.

852
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 1: So in eighteen fifty six, a lady showed up literally

853
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 1: knocking on Frederick and Anna's door, and she's like, hey,

854
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 1: I want to translate your latest work into German. And

855
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 1: that brings us to Audily austing this episode second side

856
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 1: Knock Knock, and most of our information about Audily comes

857
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 1: from a book called Love Across Color Lines by Maria Diedrich.

858
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: Audally Austin was born to middle class Jewish parents in Germany.

859
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 1: Seems like she was kind of a rebel from society,

860
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:31,240
Speaker 1: you know, she grew up with like pretty revolutionary ideal.

861
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 1: She had a very good education, and she liked to

862
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: flaunt society's moray's for women she worked. For example, she

863
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 1: worked as a tutor for a famous actor's kids, and

864
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 1: she was probably his lover. And she really took a

865
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:50,360
Speaker 1: lot of satisfaction from the scandal that arose because of

866
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 1: their affair. And it was is kind of because she

867
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 1: felt like, I you know, that shows you how unconventional

868
00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 1: I am. I'm not like other girls, you know what

869
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:00,359
Speaker 1: I mean. She was one of the I was like

870
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 1: type of ladies. She's very proud of how different she

871
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 1: is and how oh I don't even care about your

872
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 1: weird little tight wad rules. I'm very special, you know.

873
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 1: And she became a journalist. She wrote columns for a

874
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 1: German newspaper, but thanks to growing anti semitism and restrictions

875
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:23,400
Speaker 1: to the press, she fled to America in eighteen fifty

876
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 1: two and made her home in Hoboken, New Jersey. That's

877
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:32,400
Speaker 1: the culture shock for real. But of course, if you

878
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 1: hadn't heard, uh, there is also anti semitism here, so

879
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 1: that she faced that problem right off the bat. Plus

880
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 1: America already had a little disdain for immigrants, and her

881
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 1: experience as a Jewish German woman made oddly very interested

882
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 1: in America's racial dynamics. And this is this is something

883
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:56,280
Speaker 1: that's in that's fascinating because it's other countries are hearing

884
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 1: the promise of the constitution too, you know what I mean.

885
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:01,719
Speaker 1: It wasn't just people within the country. So it's gonna

886
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:04,359
Speaker 1: wait a minute, this don't make sense. They get here

887
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:06,879
Speaker 1: and they're like, but it says it's the document right here,

888
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 1: that's yeah, and they're like, get out of here, you

889
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 1: German German. So her interests in these whacka do American

890
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 1: racial politics is what led her to Frederick Douglas's literal Door.

891
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:28,720
Speaker 1: She thought that translating his writing would help German readers

892
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 1: really understand what it was like in the US. Diedrich

893
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:37,279
Speaker 1: writes that autoly was quote completely taken by Douglas's powerful

894
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 1: male presence. Oh yeah, she she got this pretty much

895
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 1: right away. As soon as he opened the door. She's like,

896
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 1: oh my, so this might have been love at first

897
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 1: sight for her. They started writing to each other frequently,

898
00:53:56,120 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 1: as she arranged to translate his second autobiography, My Undage,

899
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:04,280
Speaker 1: My Freedom and starting in eighteen fifty seven, she spent

900
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 1: every summer in the Douglas family home, working with him

901
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 1: and tutoring his kids for twenty two years. Thanks to

902
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 1: all the gossip that was spread about Julia Griffith's and

903
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:22,879
Speaker 1: they're alleged affair, Addily thought quote the Douglas marriage had

904
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 1: been over long before she entered the scene, according to Diedrich,

905
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 1: and she was quote unable or perhaps unwilling to see

906
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 1: Anna as a fellow human being and a woman. And

907
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 1: she wrote disdainfully of Anna's blackness and her illiteracy. And

908
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 1: generally historians do agree that there was some kind of

909
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 1: physical relationship going on between Frederick and uh and Addily um,

910
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 1: that there was kind of an affair here. Yeah. Diedrich's

911
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,880
Speaker 1: book is based solely on letters that Addoly wrote to

912
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 1: her sister. So she admits that it's it's most it's

913
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 1: very unsided story, right, Um, But she was like, it's

914
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 1: more than likely. And then one of Frederick Douglas's biographers

915
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 1: also said, yeah, it's more than likely they were having

916
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 1: a physical relation. She's so so okay. So even though

917
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:17,840
Speaker 1: she's in this woman's home right tutoring her children and

918
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:21,240
Speaker 1: and sleeping with her husband. She's got to add insult

919
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:23,359
Speaker 1: to injury. She's gotta kicker while she's down and start

920
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:27,320
Speaker 1: talking about her too. Yeah, it's being totally disdainful of Anna.

921
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:34,920
Speaker 1: She's ruining her life in this hospitality being extended to

922
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 1: you that day. Like I picture Anna making her breakfast.

923
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 1: That's what's making me mad, Like she's sucking giving her

924
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:44,719
Speaker 1: eggs and shit. I don't know. It just would make

925
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 1: me furious. And I mean not to not to absolve

926
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:50,759
Speaker 1: Frederick of any guilt here either, because look, dude, like

927
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:53,959
Speaker 1: you just escaped in a fair scandal. What are you doing.

928
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 1: You knew how damaging it was when someone made it up?

929
00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 1: What are you doing now doing it? Doing exactly and

930
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 1: of course historically makes it more suspicious with Julia, right,

931
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 1: Oh well he did do with Audily, So why not Julie.

932
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, there's only people like Frederick.

933
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 1: I was defending you. I was defending you. I know

934
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 1: you've got a lot going on, but respect your wife, please, geez.

935
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:22,879
Speaker 1: But that seemed to track for Addily. She sort of

936
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 1: had a lot of contempt for most people. She really

937
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 1: just a lot better than most people, especially apparently the

938
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:33,360
Speaker 1: wives of the men that she to sleep with exactly

939
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:38,399
Speaker 1: so addily not my favorite person in this story, I'll

940
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:41,839
Speaker 1: say that. Well. Meanwhile, Frederick is dealing with some even

941
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:45,720
Speaker 1: bigger drama than what's going on in his house, because

942
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 1: in March of eighteen fifty nine, he took a meeting

943
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 1: with the radical abolitionist John Brown to discuss emancipation. A

944
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:58,160
Speaker 1: while later, John Brown stayed at Frederick's house shortly before

945
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 1: he led his famous raid on Harper's Ferry, and he

946
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 1: even formed some of his plans at while he was

947
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 1: staying with Frederick Douglas, and at some point he Frederick

948
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:11,799
Speaker 1: Douglas admitted to this meeting years later. Years later, but

949
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:14,680
Speaker 1: it turned out that he had met with John Brown

950
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 1: in like an abandoned stone quarry at night or something.

951
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 1: John Brown was like laying out all his plans to

952
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 1: be like, we're gonna me in my secret six over here,

953
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 1: going to raid Harper's Ferry Arsenal, We're going to arm

954
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 1: all the slaves and we're gonna incite a rebellion you

955
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 1: in bro you know. And Frederick Douglas was like, no,

956
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 1: I am not in that sounds He said the plan

957
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:44,919
Speaker 1: was suicidal. Yeah, like no, I'm gonna nope right out

958
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:48,920
Speaker 1: of that proposition, and John Brown went on to do

959
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 1: what John Brown did. But after the raid went down

960
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 1: in October of eighteen fifty nine, Frederick was accused of

961
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 1: both supporting John Brown and of not supporting John Brown.

962
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 1: Own enough classics, So if you think all the wishy

963
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:05,960
Speaker 1: washiness of today is anything new, it's not. We've been

964
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 1: obnoxious forever. Um. He was almost arrested in Virginia for

965
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 1: playing a part in the raid, even though again he

966
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 1: was not there um, which could have led to his execution. Um.

967
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 1: So he had to flee to Canada for a little while.

968
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 1: He actually stayed with Audily in Hoboken for a minute,

969
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 1: like while he was hiding from the law, and then

970
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 1: he moved. He went on up to Canada before then

971
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 1: going on to a previously planned lecture tour in Scotland,

972
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 1: so he was safe while he was over there. But tragically,

973
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty, only a few days before her eleventh birthday,

974
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:42,280
Speaker 1: Annie Douglas died and Frederick canceled the rest of his

975
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:45,440
Speaker 1: tour and he went home. He traveled through Canada to

976
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 1: avoid arrest, and after Annie's death, Anna Murray was also

977
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 1: often in ill health. Yeah, and I mean, I'll say,

978
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 1: I guess it's speculation station a little bit, but I'm

979
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 1: thinking about Anna. She's at home all the time, right,

980
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:02,120
Speaker 1: like she's she's taking care of the house stuff, She's

981
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 1: got her her kids there. I mean, this girl is

982
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:07,840
Speaker 1: ten years old. She's barely seeing anyone else. People come

983
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 1: through in the underground railroad, they come and go just

984
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 1: as quickly. You know. She's she's got her groups that

985
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 1: she's organizing with, but she spends so much time at home.

986
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 1: Frederick's Common and going. He's barely over there. And then

987
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 1: these these people out there talking shit about her and

988
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 1: her family. She's got a woman who sometimes staying at

989
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,960
Speaker 1: her house talking shit about her. Like I'm saying, her

990
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 1: kids were probably also like her best friends in a

991
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:31,919
Speaker 1: little bit, in a little way, Yeah, I can see

992
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:36,440
Speaker 1: that at very least the center of her child. Definitely,

993
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:39,760
Speaker 1: it would be just really sad. Now. Also in the

994
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 1: year eighteen sixty, a Republican candidate named are you Abraham Lincoln? Oh? Abe?

995
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:50,960
Speaker 1: Is that you? He won the presidential election and he

996
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 1: was running on the platform that was anti slavery expansion.

997
00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 1: So the party at the time wasn't really trying to

998
00:59:58,560 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 1: end slavery outright everywhere. They were just going to keep

999
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 1: it from being legal in new territories like Missouri. Partly

1000
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:09,240
Speaker 1: because slavery, like we said, just wasn't really popular at

1001
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 1: this time outside of some loud, heavy pockets, you know,

1002
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 1: predominantly in the South, but surely throughout the whole country.

1003
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 1: A lot of people were coming around the idea. They're like,

1004
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 1: maybe this isn't so good. But also partly because this

1005
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:26,800
Speaker 1: was going to give the North larger representation than the

1006
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 1: Southern states in Congress and the electoral College. The Southern

1007
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 1: states didn't like that because that was going to impede

1008
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 1: them from passing all the pro slavery legislation that they wanted.

1009
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 1: And in fact, of course, they threatened to succeed if

1010
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 1: Republicans won the election. So that's what they did, forming

1011
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 1: the Confederate States and kicking off our very own Civil

1012
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:54,960
Speaker 1: War in eighteen sixty one. Frederick spent the early part

1013
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 1: of the war advocating for allowing black soldiers into the army.

1014
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:01,560
Speaker 1: Um he was kind of, listen, this war is about slavery,

1015
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 1: so you should allow black people to fight for their freedom.

1016
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 1: It only makes sense. He acted as an adviser to

1017
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 1: Lincoln throughout the war, advocating for suffrage and civil rights,

1018
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:15,520
Speaker 1: and by eighteen sixty three, Congress passed a bill allowing

1019
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:18,920
Speaker 1: black men into the army, and Frederick's own son, Charles,

1020
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 1: was the first black man to enlist in New York

1021
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 1: and his oldest son, Lewis, fought at the Battle of

1022
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 1: Fort Wagner, and Frederick Jr. Served as a recruiter. So

1023
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:29,800
Speaker 1: he was willing to put his kids up for this,

1024
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:31,160
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like he was like, I'm

1025
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:35,040
Speaker 1: not just talking, I mean it. And on January one,

1026
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:39,720
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty three, Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation, which stated

1027
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:42,880
Speaker 1: that slaves in the South were free and that ending

1028
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 1: slavery was the ultimate goal of winning the Civil War.

1029
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:49,840
Speaker 1: And it was apparently a very good idea of Frederick's

1030
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 1: to allow black soldiers into the army because it gave

1031
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:56,200
Speaker 1: the Union army a huge edge. They had a ton

1032
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 1: more people than the South did, and the South, the

1033
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 1: Confederate States, were aid to do it because they would

1034
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:06,640
Speaker 1: then admit that, oh, you're like people capable and so on,

1035
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:08,520
Speaker 1: so they were afraid to do it. So it really

1036
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:10,600
Speaker 1: gave the North like quite an edge. Plus you like

1037
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:13,960
Speaker 1: bond with your fellow soldiers a lot too, So probably

1038
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:15,320
Speaker 1: a lot of people would come back from the war

1039
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 1: going like, wait this, my buddy has to go back

1040
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 1: into slavery now exactly, were like, you can't mingle that way.

1041
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:23,240
Speaker 1: It changes everything. They knew that because it's such a

1042
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:26,000
Speaker 1: tenuous bullshit that it was all bolts on. So it's like,

1043
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 1: we're afraid, and it literally helped them lose, right, And

1044
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:33,439
Speaker 1: you also probably get the edge too of the fact

1045
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:35,600
Speaker 1: that you've got not only all these additional bodies on

1046
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 1: your side, but who have a serious steak. You know.

1047
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:43,240
Speaker 1: I wonder about this sometimes because I think we've talked

1048
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:48,440
Speaker 1: before about how despite the pro slavery movement in the South,

1049
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:53,920
Speaker 1: how many Southerners actually had the wealth to own slaves themselves.

1050
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:56,440
Speaker 1: You know. So I imagine there's a lot of like

1051
01:02:56,480 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 1: poor kids drafted into the army who don't don't even

1052
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:04,160
Speaker 1: really understand what they're fighting for, uh, you know, and

1053
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:08,440
Speaker 1: so they probably don't care as much as you've got

1054
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:12,680
Speaker 1: people literally fighting for their freedom. Yeah. Absolutely, yeah. So

1055
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:16,080
Speaker 1: even so during the presidential elections in eighteen sixty four,

1056
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:20,320
Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas supported a different candidate because he was disappointed

1057
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:24,440
Speaker 1: that Lincoln didn't support black men's right to vote. But

1058
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:27,600
Speaker 1: after Lincoln was assassinated in April of eighteen sixty five,

1059
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:31,280
Speaker 1: Frederick was chosen to deliver the keynote speech at the

1060
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:36,800
Speaker 1: unveiling of the Emancipation Memorial, and without pulling any punches,

1061
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 1: because you know, Frederick don't pull punches, he both criticized

1062
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:45,240
Speaker 1: and praised Lincoln, calling him quote the white Man's President

1063
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:48,480
Speaker 1: and saying that he should have gotten into the cause

1064
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 1: of emancipation earlier in his life, but that no one

1065
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:54,480
Speaker 1: black or white could deny that he had put his

1066
01:03:54,520 --> 01:03:58,400
Speaker 1: money where his mouth was to eliminate the institution of slavery.

1067
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:02,000
Speaker 1: He said, quote the old Mr. Lincoln shared the prejudices

1068
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:05,120
Speaker 1: of his white fellow countrymen against the negro It is

1069
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:08,360
Speaker 1: hardly necessary to say that, in his heart of hearts,

1070
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:12,280
Speaker 1: he loathed and hated slavery. Douglas got a standing ovation

1071
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:15,880
Speaker 1: for his speech, and Lincoln's widow, Mary Todd, even gave

1072
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:20,760
Speaker 1: Frederick Lincoln's favorite walking stick. It's pretty cool that he

1073
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 1: got that, even when he was being so real about

1074
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:26,160
Speaker 1: the man himself. You know, I think that's cool. That

1075
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:28,720
Speaker 1: shows you what a great speechmaker he must have been,

1076
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:31,640
Speaker 1: because he was able to really draw lines, you know,

1077
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:35,120
Speaker 1: very carefully. Now, during the war, Oddily and Frederick had

1078
01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:38,600
Speaker 1: still been collaborating or publishing articles in her German paper

1079
01:04:38,720 --> 01:04:42,320
Speaker 1: and his American one urging the country to end slavery

1080
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:45,720
Speaker 1: and integrate the army and all those all those things

1081
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:48,720
Speaker 1: that he was advocating for. But Addily, in letters to

1082
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:54,160
Speaker 1: her sister, seemed hundred percent certain that as soon as

1083
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:57,640
Speaker 1: emancipation was achieved, it would mean that Frederick Douglas was

1084
01:04:57,680 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 1: no longer in the public eye, and that would mean

1085
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:04,880
Speaker 1: that he could leave his wife Anna and finally marry her. Wow,

1086
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:08,200
Speaker 1: she had like a whole map drawn in her head

1087
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:11,400
Speaker 1: that I don't think he knew about um. But she

1088
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:14,280
Speaker 1: was wrong about that, because the fight was not over

1089
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:20,080
Speaker 1: with the Emancipation Proclamation. Surprised the Emancipation Proclamation didn't end

1090
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:24,960
Speaker 1: the problems for black people in America. Now, in eighteen

1091
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:29,640
Speaker 1: sixty five, the Thirteenth Amendment outlawed slavery quote except as

1092
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:35,240
Speaker 1: punishment for a crime. That left that little line of problems.

1093
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:39,520
Speaker 1: Some evil crawled through that loop. In eighteen sixty eight,

1094
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:43,960
Speaker 1: the Fourteenth Amendment guaranteed citizenship to former enslaved people, and

1095
01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:48,480
Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy the Fifteenth Amendment ensured voting rights, so

1096
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:51,760
Speaker 1: civil rights for black men at least were codified into

1097
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:54,640
Speaker 1: law because women still couldn't vote, you know. Um, But

1098
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:58,440
Speaker 1: all that progress meant that white supremacists acted very quickly

1099
01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:01,520
Speaker 1: to curb all these right as much as they could

1100
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:06,280
Speaker 1: with restrictions. Other bullshits groups such as the Ku Klux,

1101
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:10,200
Speaker 1: Klan and other violent insurgent groups formed very quickly at

1102
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:14,840
Speaker 1: this time as well. The reconstruction period was leading swiftly

1103
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:20,440
Speaker 1: in the direction of reasserting white supremacy and disenfranchising black citizens. So,

1104
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:24,080
Speaker 1: of course what happened about ten years after the war ended,

1105
01:06:24,640 --> 01:06:28,800
Speaker 1: we were voting for nothing but assholes. So Frederick was like,

1106
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:30,120
Speaker 1: I still got a lot of work to do here.

1107
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:32,880
Speaker 1: The fight's not over with just ending slavery. There's clearly

1108
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:36,400
Speaker 1: a lot more going on. So he conferred with President

1109
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:40,080
Speaker 1: Ulysses S. Grant about race issues, um, supporting his candidacy

1110
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:42,560
Speaker 1: and encouraging him to sign the Civil Rights Act of

1111
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:45,000
Speaker 1: eighteen seventy one, which is also called the Klan Act,

1112
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:48,760
Speaker 1: and other enforcement acts that basically allowed the president to

1113
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 1: suspend Habeas Corpus and send in the troops to suppress

1114
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:56,800
Speaker 1: all this white violence against black people and to ensure

1115
01:06:57,480 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 1: their rights to vote and to hold office. And all

1116
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:03,520
Speaker 1: this protecting of civil rights for black people made Grant

1117
01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:06,040
Speaker 1: pretty unpopular with a lot of shitty white people at

1118
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:09,200
Speaker 1: the time, but Frederick and his his friends and family

1119
01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:12,760
Speaker 1: were and his associates were big fans. They wrote about

1120
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:16,720
Speaker 1: Grants that African Americans quote, will ever cherish a grateful

1121
01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:20,560
Speaker 1: remembrance of his name, fame, and great services. Well there

1122
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:24,800
Speaker 1: you go. Now. In eighteen seventy two, Frederick became the

1123
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:27,840
Speaker 1: first black person to be nominated for vice president of

1124
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:32,040
Speaker 1: the United States when Victoria Woodhull in the Equal Rights

1125
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:36,160
Speaker 1: Party ran for president and selected him as her running

1126
01:07:36,160 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 1: mate without his prior knowledge or consent. So he wakes

1127
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:42,280
Speaker 1: up one day it is like, I'm I'm what, I'm

1128
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:45,360
Speaker 1: running for vice president? Do you think? Like like stretching on?

1129
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:49,320
Speaker 1: And then he opened the newspaper and oh, Frederick Douglas

1130
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:55,360
Speaker 1: is the running with Frederick Ducklas. I'm Frederick Tucklas, speas

1131
01:07:55,440 --> 01:08:01,800
Speaker 1: me exactly. Well, that same year, Frederick and Anna's home

1132
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:06,640
Speaker 1: in Rochester burned down, and this was likely due to arson,

1133
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:09,680
Speaker 1: of course, all that white violence we were just talking about.

1134
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:13,880
Speaker 1: Most of their belongings were burned, including the only complete

1135
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:17,960
Speaker 1: archive of his north Star paper. They moved after that

1136
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:21,479
Speaker 1: to Washington, d C. And Anna continued to manage their

1137
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:25,880
Speaker 1: home while Frederick continued to lecture and advocate. Audily started

1138
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:28,919
Speaker 1: to argue with him about the future and about his children,

1139
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:32,000
Speaker 1: who she thought were feckless and they had I mean,

1140
01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:35,400
Speaker 1: we will say they did rely on his financial support,

1141
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:38,720
Speaker 1: you know, for years, for a long time, well into

1142
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:43,919
Speaker 1: their adult lives. But attention and estrangement sprang up between

1143
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:48,200
Speaker 1: Frederick and addly after this, in eight seventy six, Audily

1144
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:52,200
Speaker 1: went on a European trip, hoping Frederick would just follow along,

1145
01:08:53,120 --> 01:08:55,320
Speaker 1: but he was immersed in his life and his work

1146
01:08:55,320 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 1: in the US, and he made no move to join her. Also,

1147
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:03,160
Speaker 1: he was married to Anna. You know, She's like, I've

1148
01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:06,960
Speaker 1: just leave Anne. He was like, okay, bye, I'm going.

1149
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:11,720
Speaker 1: Are you sure doors open? You can follow, There's an

1150
01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:14,960
Speaker 1: extra seat. I'll leave. I'll really do it. I bet

1151
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:16,840
Speaker 1: she would write him a lot and be like, today

1152
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:22,320
Speaker 1: I'm in Perry. You want to join music? Okay. In

1153
01:09:22,360 --> 01:09:25,840
Speaker 1: eighteen seventy seven, Frederick and Anna moved into Cedar Hill,

1154
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:28,920
Speaker 1: which is the estate that was the family's final home

1155
01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:33,360
Speaker 1: and where the Frederick Douglas National Historic Site is now located.

1156
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:37,200
Speaker 1: And Frederick was appointed the Recorder of Deeds in Washington,

1157
01:09:37,280 --> 01:09:39,879
Speaker 1: d c. Which he accepted because it's secured his family's

1158
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:42,840
Speaker 1: financial feature. And then in August of eighteen eighty two,

1159
01:09:42,920 --> 01:09:46,840
Speaker 1: after a series of strokes, Anna Murray Douglas passed away

1160
01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:52,040
Speaker 1: and Frederick was by all accounts devastated by this loss.

1161
01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:54,840
Speaker 1: So if anyone's trying to act like he didn't love

1162
01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:59,880
Speaker 1: his wife, yeah, he definitely did. Um. He made no

1163
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:04,120
Speaker 1: attempt to contact Addie overseas, but he did be friend

1164
01:10:04,240 --> 01:10:07,679
Speaker 1: his new next door neighbor, a woman named Helen Pitts.

1165
01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:11,040
Speaker 1: Helen was the daughter of Gideon and Jane Pitts. They

1166
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:16,040
Speaker 1: were abolitionists and suffragists, and after the Civil War, Helen

1167
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:18,639
Speaker 1: taught at a school in Virginia that educated black men

1168
01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:22,200
Speaker 1: and women, and she caused some local controversy when she

1169
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:26,160
Speaker 1: accused residents there of abusing her students, and she got

1170
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:31,320
Speaker 1: them arrested for it. So Virginians were like grumble grumble,

1171
01:10:32,040 --> 01:10:35,519
Speaker 1: how dare a white lady do that, you know? And

1172
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:39,160
Speaker 1: that's when she moved home with her parents next door

1173
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:42,000
Speaker 1: to Frederick Douglas, and she started co editing a women's

1174
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:46,439
Speaker 1: rights magazine called The Alpha. So Frederick hired Helen to

1175
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:49,320
Speaker 1: work in the deeds office as his secretary not long

1176
01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:53,400
Speaker 1: after they met, and in four he resigned that office

1177
01:10:53,640 --> 01:10:56,000
Speaker 1: and he married Helen a year and a half after

1178
01:10:56,080 --> 01:11:00,439
Speaker 1: Anna's death. Helen was twenty years younger than him, but

1179
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:04,800
Speaker 1: nobody cared about that. They cared about the fact that

1180
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:08,320
Speaker 1: he was black and she was white, and that really

1181
01:11:09,160 --> 01:11:12,559
Speaker 1: messed with their brains. They couldn't handle it. Even though

1182
01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:17,280
Speaker 1: her parents were abolitionists and admired Frederick Douglas, they still

1183
01:11:17,320 --> 01:11:20,439
Speaker 1: did not like her marrying a black man, and they

1184
01:11:20,479 --> 01:11:24,080
Speaker 1: stopped speaking to her for the rest of her life.

1185
01:11:24,840 --> 01:11:31,760
Speaker 1: And yes, support Frederick Douglas not like that. Even Frederick's

1186
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:34,200
Speaker 1: own children didn't like this marriage. They thought that it

1187
01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:37,920
Speaker 1: was a repudiation of their mother Anna, which is not uncommon.

1188
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:41,840
Speaker 1: I think sometimes when a parent remarries, Sure, I have

1189
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:45,040
Speaker 1: to wonder if they knew anything about oddly right and

1190
01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:47,599
Speaker 1: how they felt about her as a repudiation because Anna

1191
01:11:47,680 --> 01:11:50,120
Speaker 1: was still alive when he was seeing there. So it's like,

1192
01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:53,519
Speaker 1: which is worse. I'm sure they didn't liked surely, or

1193
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:55,400
Speaker 1: they just didn't know, you know what I mean. But

1194
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:57,800
Speaker 1: they were being tutored by her for years, and I'm

1195
01:11:57,840 --> 01:11:59,640
Speaker 1: like they had they knew her a little. I mean,

1196
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:02,280
Speaker 1: I wanted if they heard any of these rumors anyway,

1197
01:12:02,479 --> 01:12:05,879
Speaker 1: But regardless of what anybody else thought, Helen and Frederick

1198
01:12:05,960 --> 01:12:09,479
Speaker 1: went ahead with it anyway. Helen said, quote, love came

1199
01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:11,800
Speaker 1: to me, and I was not afraid to marry the

1200
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:15,880
Speaker 1: man I loved because of his color. And Frederick Douglas commented, quote,

1201
01:12:16,240 --> 01:12:19,200
Speaker 1: this proves I am impartial. My first wife was the

1202
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:21,960
Speaker 1: color of my mother and the second the color of

1203
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:26,880
Speaker 1: my father. But what about Addally, Well, she is in

1204
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:30,960
Speaker 1: Europe fighting for a claim to her sister's estate when

1205
01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:34,360
Speaker 1: she heard the news about this little union, and it

1206
01:12:34,439 --> 01:12:36,559
Speaker 1: must be said, this is a bad time for Addily.

1207
01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:40,600
Speaker 1: She had just been diagnosed with breast cancer, so she

1208
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:43,240
Speaker 1: is already in ill health when she heard that her

1209
01:12:43,320 --> 01:12:47,080
Speaker 1: lover of twenty six years was not ever going to

1210
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:50,920
Speaker 1: marry her, and had in fact married another white woman

1211
01:12:51,240 --> 01:12:56,040
Speaker 1: twenty years younger than her. And so she responded dramatically.

1212
01:12:56,880 --> 01:13:00,559
Speaker 1: The following August, she went to a Paris park and

1213
01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:06,040
Speaker 1: drink a vial of cyanide and died by suicide. All

1214
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:09,679
Speaker 1: her letters from Frederick had been burned, and she left

1215
01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:14,200
Speaker 1: him the income of hert dollar state, which let's see,

1216
01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:16,360
Speaker 1: if I could pull the calculator at again, that would

1217
01:13:16,400 --> 01:13:22,679
Speaker 1: be hard three hundred and sixty one thousand, five hundred

1218
01:13:22,720 --> 01:13:27,719
Speaker 1: and nine dollars today, so not an inconsiderable amount of money. Money.

1219
01:13:28,400 --> 01:13:30,600
Speaker 1: So she left him this income in her will and

1220
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 1: stipulated that it should be delivered in semi annual installments

1221
01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:37,920
Speaker 1: to him for the rest of his life. Now, some

1222
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:40,280
Speaker 1: sources paint this as like a sign of her undying

1223
01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:45,000
Speaker 1: love and devotion to Frederick Douglas, perhaps his cause is

1224
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:49,280
Speaker 1: or whatever. Um Maria Diedrich writes that it was quote

1225
01:13:49,320 --> 01:13:54,599
Speaker 1: a more substantial way of haunting him. Oh yeah, I guess.

1226
01:13:54,600 --> 01:13:57,840
Speaker 1: Just again, it's all based on her book. So the

1227
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:01,880
Speaker 1: character that she has definitely put together of this woman

1228
01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:04,360
Speaker 1: is not flattering, right, And I kind of buy that

1229
01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:06,000
Speaker 1: that She was like, I'm just going to make him

1230
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:08,880
Speaker 1: have to look at my name every few months for

1231
01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:10,360
Speaker 1: the rest of his life. He's going to have to

1232
01:14:10,360 --> 01:14:13,639
Speaker 1: remember me. I wonder if she was not well. I mean,

1233
01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:17,640
Speaker 1: you know, she was definitely, like we said before, like

1234
01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:20,680
Speaker 1: was kind of living in a different reality. She had

1235
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:24,479
Speaker 1: a very different perspective on their relationship than he clearly had.

1236
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:29,479
Speaker 1: And I don't obviously we don't know. We can only

1237
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:35,080
Speaker 1: speculations station about it. But it doesn't seem that he

1238
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:37,960
Speaker 1: maybe let her on. He probably didn't even have time

1239
01:14:38,080 --> 01:14:40,160
Speaker 1: to make her think that their relationship was something other

1240
01:14:40,200 --> 01:14:42,920
Speaker 1: than it was. It seems like he was very clear, like, yeah,

1241
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:45,360
Speaker 1: I'm not going to Europe with you or anything. But no,

1242
01:14:45,560 --> 01:14:49,720
Speaker 1: she did struggle with depression. She had had suicidal ideation

1243
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:53,880
Speaker 1: in her past before, so that's definitely true. She was

1244
01:14:53,920 --> 01:14:58,160
Speaker 1: not like stable in that way. I guess um, But yeah,

1245
01:14:58,160 --> 01:15:00,479
Speaker 1: I do question it. I'm like, I guess a lover

1246
01:15:00,560 --> 01:15:02,479
Speaker 1: of twenty six years. It makes it seem like they

1247
01:15:02,479 --> 01:15:05,080
Speaker 1: were together every day maybe or something. But again, she's

1248
01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:08,280
Speaker 1: only spent summers at his house. I wonder if they

1249
01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:10,680
Speaker 1: even did a lot at his house, because I was

1250
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:12,519
Speaker 1: right there as kids are there. I wonder if that

1251
01:15:12,600 --> 01:15:14,880
Speaker 1: made a difference or not um or if it was

1252
01:15:14,920 --> 01:15:17,200
Speaker 1: really sporadic and it was just like when you can.

1253
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:20,280
Speaker 1: We did, but it wasn't like a priority to Frederick Defris.

1254
01:15:20,520 --> 01:15:21,920
Speaker 1: You know, I don't think it was. She was like

1255
01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:24,240
Speaker 1: a major, like he's like, oh, I gotta make time

1256
01:15:24,240 --> 01:15:29,120
Speaker 1: for Oddily today. Drew Gilpin Faustum, in his review of

1257
01:15:29,200 --> 01:15:32,759
Speaker 1: Diedrich's book for The New York Times, wrote quote, Oddly

1258
01:15:32,800 --> 01:15:37,519
Speaker 1: austing is in Diedrich's portrait, an interesting but hardly likable figure.

1259
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:41,120
Speaker 1: An intellectual elitist, she had little time for those she

1260
01:15:41,200 --> 01:15:45,080
Speaker 1: regarded as her inferiors. This rendered her contemptuous of many

1261
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:48,800
Speaker 1: men and almost all other women. Yet for all her

1262
01:15:48,840 --> 01:15:53,200
Speaker 1: professed commitments to romantic individualism and female freedom, she ended

1263
01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:55,599
Speaker 1: up the victim of her own dependence on a man,

1264
01:15:55,960 --> 01:15:58,839
Speaker 1: and of her longing for the very conventions of marriage

1265
01:15:58,880 --> 01:16:03,519
Speaker 1: that her words and act had so long scorned. Which

1266
01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:07,120
Speaker 1: is like a sad note, but she had. Maria Diedrich

1267
01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:09,519
Speaker 1: had also noted that when she was having the affair

1268
01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:13,200
Speaker 1: back in Germany with the famous actor very similar, she

1269
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:16,080
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I'm his equal partner, but actually she

1270
01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:18,920
Speaker 1: was giving him most of her money, and everything was

1271
01:16:18,920 --> 01:16:21,200
Speaker 1: about him and what he wanted, so she was still

1272
01:16:21,240 --> 01:16:24,320
Speaker 1: kind of subsuming her whole life in the man and

1273
01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:26,680
Speaker 1: so it's sort of like she really wanted to be

1274
01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:31,280
Speaker 1: this like rebellious figure and she lived her life like

1275
01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:34,439
Speaker 1: she was like above everyone. But she really wanted some

1276
01:16:34,439 --> 01:16:37,000
Speaker 1: really traditional stuff. And it's too bad that she didn't

1277
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:40,840
Speaker 1: feel like she could do both. I guess I'm sad

1278
01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:42,599
Speaker 1: for her that she felt like she had to act

1279
01:16:42,600 --> 01:16:45,439
Speaker 1: like a bitch in order to be a different type

1280
01:16:45,439 --> 01:16:48,639
Speaker 1: of woman or better quote unquote better type of woman. Right.

1281
01:16:48,760 --> 01:16:50,519
Speaker 1: It seems like she's one of those people, like a

1282
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:52,519
Speaker 1: woman who had to put other women down so that

1283
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:55,880
Speaker 1: she could feel superior to the idea of what women are,

1284
01:16:56,680 --> 01:17:02,840
Speaker 1: you know, which is no, no, no help. Yes great. Yeah. Meanwhile,

1285
01:17:03,400 --> 01:17:07,000
Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas and Helen had a very happy marriage. They

1286
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:10,439
Speaker 1: had similar intellectual interests and they shared a commitment to

1287
01:17:10,439 --> 01:17:14,479
Speaker 1: women's suffrage. She played piano, he played violin, and they

1288
01:17:14,520 --> 01:17:18,160
Speaker 1: both played croquet at their home in Cedar Hill. They

1289
01:17:18,160 --> 01:17:21,120
Speaker 1: took a trip to Europe together, which must have piste

1290
01:17:21,160 --> 01:17:23,600
Speaker 1: off Autoly from beyond the Grave, right, I mean I

1291
01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:25,960
Speaker 1: just saw like a dabbing like, oh, now you want

1292
01:17:25,960 --> 01:17:29,880
Speaker 1: to go. Since Frederick had been appointed a U S

1293
01:17:29,960 --> 01:17:33,360
Speaker 1: Marshal for d C. In eighteen seventy seven, he attended

1294
01:17:33,439 --> 01:17:38,040
Speaker 1: presidential Galler receptions and she accompanied him. Frederick wrote to

1295
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:41,519
Speaker 1: a friend that the marriage quote brought strong criticism, but

1296
01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:47,080
Speaker 1: there is peace and happiness within. On February Frederick Douglas

1297
01:17:47,120 --> 01:17:50,080
Speaker 1: attended a meeting of the National Council of Women, and

1298
01:17:50,080 --> 01:17:51,920
Speaker 1: they brought him up to a platform and gave him

1299
01:17:51,920 --> 01:17:54,679
Speaker 1: a standing ovation. And like, everybody knows how great Frederick

1300
01:17:54,720 --> 01:17:58,800
Speaker 1: Douglas is the cause of women's suffrage. But that night

1301
01:17:59,080 --> 01:18:01,760
Speaker 1: he had a mass of heart attack and died at

1302
01:18:01,800 --> 01:18:04,640
Speaker 1: the age of seventy seven. I just love that on

1303
01:18:05,000 --> 01:18:08,000
Speaker 1: his last night he got a standing ovation from everybody

1304
01:18:08,120 --> 01:18:11,080
Speaker 1: for his amazing life and all he did. Like I

1305
01:18:11,160 --> 01:18:14,400
Speaker 1: just the timing of that's nice to me. Yeah, I

1306
01:18:14,439 --> 01:18:16,920
Speaker 1: would love it. Hope it all work it out so

1307
01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:19,040
Speaker 1: I would get a standing ovation on my last hour.

1308
01:18:19,800 --> 01:18:21,639
Speaker 1: Now we'll be worried every time I get a standing ovation.

1309
01:18:22,160 --> 01:18:27,120
Speaker 1: Oh my god, is this Fortunately, don't get any standing ovations.

1310
01:18:28,600 --> 01:18:31,519
Speaker 1: I'll give you a standing ovation every day when I

1311
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:33,080
Speaker 1: stand up out of bed and I clap and I

1312
01:18:33,120 --> 01:18:37,559
Speaker 1: say get up. That doesn't count, that does not count.

1313
01:18:38,040 --> 01:18:40,760
Speaker 1: But then you stand up and I cheer sarcastically for you.

1314
01:18:41,240 --> 01:18:45,720
Speaker 1: That still doesn't feel like it's definitely not the same.

1315
01:18:47,560 --> 01:18:52,000
Speaker 1: That's what Frederick Douglas Scott, you getting out of bed.

1316
01:18:52,200 --> 01:18:56,040
Speaker 1: I guess I got a Douglas to get Frederick Douglas

1317
01:18:56,040 --> 01:19:00,240
Speaker 1: claps yes, so yes. Frederick Douglas was hell the in

1318
01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:03,800
Speaker 1: state in d C. Thousands of people, of course attended

1319
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:07,080
Speaker 1: his funeral. He came to see his body laying in

1320
01:19:07,160 --> 01:19:10,360
Speaker 1: state and everything and pay their respects, but they laid

1321
01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:12,840
Speaker 1: him to rest in Rochester, where he had made his

1322
01:19:12,880 --> 01:19:16,040
Speaker 1: home for most of his life at the Mount Hope Cemetery,

1323
01:19:16,240 --> 01:19:20,120
Speaker 1: right next to Anna Murray. And he had left Cedar

1324
01:19:20,200 --> 01:19:23,000
Speaker 1: Hill to Helen, his wife of the past eleven years,

1325
01:19:23,800 --> 01:19:27,639
Speaker 1: but there weren't enough witnesses to validate that bequest, so

1326
01:19:27,680 --> 01:19:30,280
Speaker 1: they said it did not count and she did not

1327
01:19:30,360 --> 01:19:33,720
Speaker 1: get the home out right, And so Helen suggested to

1328
01:19:33,760 --> 01:19:37,000
Speaker 1: the Douglas children that they should set Cedar Hill aside

1329
01:19:37,040 --> 01:19:39,080
Speaker 1: as a memorial to their father and like have it

1330
01:19:39,160 --> 01:19:41,479
Speaker 1: managed by a board of trustees and stuff. So it

1331
01:19:41,520 --> 01:19:44,360
Speaker 1: wasn't like about her personally gaining from It's like, I

1332
01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:47,800
Speaker 1: won't touch it, you know, it's just for him. But

1333
01:19:47,920 --> 01:19:50,760
Speaker 1: the kids who again. You know had been relying on

1334
01:19:51,439 --> 01:19:54,840
Speaker 1: dou on Frederick Douglas income, I guess a lot, and

1335
01:19:54,960 --> 01:19:59,120
Speaker 1: his name probably too for support. They just wanted to

1336
01:19:59,120 --> 01:20:02,439
Speaker 1: sell the estate and divide the money equally amongst them.

1337
01:20:02,680 --> 01:20:06,640
Speaker 1: So get this, Helen borrowed a bunch of money and

1338
01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:09,479
Speaker 1: bought the place herself to pay off the Airs and

1339
01:20:09,479 --> 01:20:12,280
Speaker 1: the other family members. So she had to raise the

1340
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:16,560
Speaker 1: money to buy what had already been bequeathed to her. Outrageous,

1341
01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:19,439
Speaker 1: but she devoted the rest of her life to planning

1342
01:20:19,479 --> 01:20:24,880
Speaker 1: and establishing the Frederick Douglas Memorial and Historical Association. She

1343
01:20:24,960 --> 01:20:28,840
Speaker 1: got Congress to pass a law incorporating the association and

1344
01:20:28,880 --> 01:20:32,519
Speaker 1: worked to raise money to maintain the estate, lecturing throughout

1345
01:20:32,560 --> 01:20:35,719
Speaker 1: the Northeast for years. But near the end of her life,

1346
01:20:36,120 --> 01:20:39,559
Speaker 1: contributions were falling off. Helen was in poor health and

1347
01:20:39,560 --> 01:20:43,080
Speaker 1: it looked like her life's work preserving Frederick's life's work

1348
01:20:43,439 --> 01:20:46,960
Speaker 1: wasn't going to pan out. But a prominent black reverend

1349
01:20:47,120 --> 01:20:50,960
Speaker 1: named Francis Grimkey, the reverend who had married Helen and Frederick,

1350
01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:55,520
Speaker 1: suggested that she sell the property and create college scholarships

1351
01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:59,240
Speaker 1: in her and Frederick's names, and initially she agreed, but

1352
01:20:59,439 --> 01:21:02,480
Speaker 1: she said only at the scholarships were only in Frederick's

1353
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:05,760
Speaker 1: name and not in hers, which I get, which is,

1354
01:21:05,800 --> 01:21:07,799
Speaker 1: you know, as a sign of respect. It's like about

1355
01:21:07,880 --> 01:21:11,679
Speaker 1: preserving this great man's legacy. I also hate that instinct

1356
01:21:11,720 --> 01:21:15,160
Speaker 1: to write yourself out. She was like, well, don't put

1357
01:21:15,160 --> 01:21:17,240
Speaker 1: me in there. And I'm like, well, but you did

1358
01:21:17,360 --> 01:21:21,760
Speaker 1: stuff no worries if not. It was called the no

1359
01:21:21,880 --> 01:21:28,080
Speaker 1: Worries if not Scholarship. But in nineteen o three Helen

1360
01:21:28,200 --> 01:21:31,280
Speaker 1: changed her mind. She's pretty much nearing the end of

1361
01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:33,640
Speaker 1: her life at this point, she knew it, and she

1362
01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:36,360
Speaker 1: wrote to Reverend grimm Key begging for his help if

1363
01:21:36,360 --> 01:21:40,160
Speaker 1: the mortgage was not paid off before she died. She wrote, quote,

1364
01:21:40,920 --> 01:21:43,959
Speaker 1: if the colored people think so little of Mr Douglas

1365
01:21:43,960 --> 01:21:47,400
Speaker 1: and his great services that they cannot raise this small sum,

1366
01:21:47,439 --> 01:21:50,600
Speaker 1: it will stand as an everlasting disgrace and reproach to

1367
01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:53,280
Speaker 1: the race. See to it that you do not allow

1368
01:21:53,360 --> 01:22:00,559
Speaker 1: my plan for Cedar Hill to fail? Are you strong

1369
01:22:00,600 --> 01:22:04,439
Speaker 1: word there? But you know she's desperate, she's about to die.

1370
01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:07,800
Speaker 1: She's like, please pay for this, come on now. So

1371
01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:10,240
Speaker 1: I wonder if he was reading it, like why do

1372
01:22:10,360 --> 01:22:12,680
Speaker 1: you get to this last it was just race. You

1373
01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:15,120
Speaker 1: can still be racist when you're trying to fight for

1374
01:22:15,120 --> 01:22:18,879
Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas's legacy. You know, she had a lot to unpack,

1375
01:22:18,960 --> 01:22:23,240
Speaker 1: all right, we were just learning about now. But after

1376
01:22:23,320 --> 01:22:26,320
Speaker 1: Helen died in nineteen o three, she was buried next

1377
01:22:26,360 --> 01:22:29,479
Speaker 1: to Frederick in Mount Hope Cemetery as well, and the

1378
01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:33,080
Speaker 1: mortgage for Cedar Hill was reduced from five thousand, five

1379
01:22:33,160 --> 01:22:37,040
Speaker 1: hundred dollars to four thousand dollars, and the National Association

1380
01:22:37,080 --> 01:22:40,160
Speaker 1: of Colored Women, led by Mary b. Tealbert of Buffalo,

1381
01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:44,600
Speaker 1: raised the money to buy Cedar Hill. It's now administered

1382
01:22:44,640 --> 01:22:47,280
Speaker 1: by the National Park Service and they give tours of

1383
01:22:47,360 --> 01:22:51,559
Speaker 1: his home. It houses memorabilia like Lincoln's favorite walking stick,

1384
01:22:52,280 --> 01:22:56,200
Speaker 1: and informs guests of his contributions to freedom. Just as

1385
01:22:56,240 --> 01:23:01,080
Speaker 1: Helen was hoping, that's awesome, which I love. So the boy,

1386
01:23:01,120 --> 01:23:05,320
Speaker 1: the whole group just came together raise the money, which

1387
01:23:05,320 --> 01:23:08,040
Speaker 1: is they and they and they're probably like not because

1388
01:23:08,080 --> 01:23:11,000
Speaker 1: of what Helen said, which we found a little condescendant,

1389
01:23:11,640 --> 01:23:17,360
Speaker 1: but because we wanted to, which I mean, that's that's

1390
01:23:17,479 --> 01:23:22,840
Speaker 1: what really struck me reading this story or learning his story. Um,

1391
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:26,240
Speaker 1: you know, his daughter, Rosetta's brig other historians like leaf

1392
01:23:26,320 --> 01:23:29,679
Speaker 1: Out and Rose O'Keefe and more. You know, we're saying

1393
01:23:29,720 --> 01:23:34,240
Speaker 1: there really is no Frederick Douglas without Anna Murray, that

1394
01:23:34,320 --> 01:23:36,360
Speaker 1: she does not get enough credit for the part she

1395
01:23:36,400 --> 01:23:38,600
Speaker 1: played in his legacy. And we talked about that a

1396
01:23:38,640 --> 01:23:41,120
Speaker 1: little bit through the episode, that she was, you know,

1397
01:23:41,439 --> 01:23:43,920
Speaker 1: making the space for him to build his career. He

1398
01:23:43,960 --> 01:23:46,080
Speaker 1: couldn't have done it without her. Plus she got him

1399
01:23:46,080 --> 01:23:50,759
Speaker 1: out of slavery, also pretty important part of the story.

1400
01:23:51,280 --> 01:23:54,040
Speaker 1: Um I would add that women in general didn't get

1401
01:23:54,160 --> 01:23:56,559
Speaker 1: enough credit for the part they played in Frederick's story

1402
01:23:56,600 --> 01:24:00,120
Speaker 1: because it wasn't just Anna, right. His mother, for st

1403
01:24:00,160 --> 01:24:02,599
Speaker 1: of all, gave him a great sense of pride, a

1404
01:24:02,640 --> 01:24:05,200
Speaker 1: sense of himself as to being able to teach himself

1405
01:24:05,280 --> 01:24:07,880
Speaker 1: and learn and have the capacity to learn. I think

1406
01:24:07,920 --> 01:24:10,680
Speaker 1: his mom was a really strong shape in his in

1407
01:24:10,800 --> 01:24:12,639
Speaker 1: his mind, see you know what I mean. I think

1408
01:24:12,680 --> 01:24:16,880
Speaker 1: she really was important in his development as a kid.

1409
01:24:17,640 --> 01:24:19,680
Speaker 1: And then of course Anna Murray helped him escape. She

1410
01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:23,519
Speaker 1: supported financially, women in England raised the money for him

1411
01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:25,720
Speaker 1: to buy his freedom and for him to start his

1412
01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:29,599
Speaker 1: paper they've you know started. They basically financed his startup.

1413
01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:34,640
Speaker 1: Julia Griffiths kept that paper afloat by handling the financials

1414
01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:38,480
Speaker 1: and raising money audibly, even though she's a bit problematic,

1415
01:24:38,760 --> 01:24:41,840
Speaker 1: shared his words with an entire new audience. She was

1416
01:24:41,920 --> 01:24:45,200
Speaker 1: opening them up in a whole other countries and translating

1417
01:24:45,240 --> 01:24:47,679
Speaker 1: his work into many different languages and to a whole

1418
01:24:47,680 --> 01:24:50,519
Speaker 1: other language. She also housed him when he was on

1419
01:24:50,520 --> 01:24:53,080
Speaker 1: the run from the law, and then Helen worked to

1420
01:24:53,120 --> 01:24:56,360
Speaker 1: preserve his legacy for the rest of generations so we

1421
01:24:56,360 --> 01:24:58,519
Speaker 1: would know anything about him and all the work that

1422
01:24:58,600 --> 01:25:02,080
Speaker 1: he did. And women raised the money to pay for

1423
01:25:02,120 --> 01:25:05,880
Speaker 1: that preservation. So it's just women throughout his life. Yeah,

1424
01:25:06,280 --> 01:25:09,160
Speaker 1: that were like, this guy is getting ship done, let's

1425
01:25:09,160 --> 01:25:12,880
Speaker 1: help him out. And I think if without those women,

1426
01:25:13,520 --> 01:25:16,000
Speaker 1: I'm not sure he would have gotten as far as

1427
01:25:16,040 --> 01:25:20,120
Speaker 1: he right now. They really were the wind beneath his wings. Well,

1428
01:25:20,160 --> 01:25:22,400
Speaker 1: and you can even look at it as not so

1429
01:25:22,479 --> 01:25:26,640
Speaker 1: much as like women supporting Frederick Douglas, but women who

1430
01:25:26,720 --> 01:25:29,320
Speaker 1: wanted to get something done had to find a guy

1431
01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:32,920
Speaker 1: to be their face for those things to get done.

1432
01:25:32,960 --> 01:25:34,920
Speaker 1: So it was a way for women to do things

1433
01:25:34,960 --> 01:25:37,679
Speaker 1: that they were trying to accomplish, sort of just like

1434
01:25:37,840 --> 01:25:42,000
Speaker 1: a you know, borrowing Frederick Douglas's persona, UM to be

1435
01:25:42,040 --> 01:25:43,519
Speaker 1: able to get things done that they were trying to

1436
01:25:43,520 --> 01:25:47,120
Speaker 1: get done. Yeah, pretty phenomenal. Well, and even a shitty

1437
01:25:47,160 --> 01:25:49,320
Speaker 1: slave owning white woman is the reason you learned how

1438
01:25:49,320 --> 01:25:53,479
Speaker 1: to read in the first place, So I guess that's

1439
01:25:53,479 --> 01:25:56,120
Speaker 1: true too. I'm just like, it was just hundreds of

1440
01:25:56,160 --> 01:26:00,519
Speaker 1: women that that really ensured his legacy. And I'm not

1441
01:26:00,520 --> 01:26:02,680
Speaker 1: trying to take away from Frederick Douglas. Oh yeah, no,

1442
01:26:02,720 --> 01:26:05,280
Speaker 1: not at all. Obviously we're talking about it. Very intelligent

1443
01:26:05,360 --> 01:26:07,720
Speaker 1: and brave and cool dude, right, who did a lot

1444
01:26:07,760 --> 01:26:11,760
Speaker 1: of great things. But the obscured part is all these

1445
01:26:11,800 --> 01:26:14,320
Speaker 1: ladies that were standing behind him. It wasn't It wasn't

1446
01:26:14,360 --> 01:26:16,840
Speaker 1: just well, you know, behind every great man is one

1447
01:26:16,840 --> 01:26:20,719
Speaker 1: great woman. Behind him were hundreds of women, all working

1448
01:26:20,800 --> 01:26:24,200
Speaker 1: really hard and doing their little piece, and that's what

1449
01:26:24,280 --> 01:26:27,439
Speaker 1: they got, you know, to contribute. I mean, you see

1450
01:26:27,479 --> 01:26:32,080
Speaker 1: so often in history in general, that one great person

1451
01:26:32,400 --> 01:26:36,679
Speaker 1: is often many great people. UM. And then how often

1452
01:26:36,680 --> 01:26:41,360
Speaker 1: in history the women in that circle are not studied,

1453
01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:45,559
Speaker 1: cast aside or or even like in um. In a

1454
01:26:45,600 --> 01:26:48,720
Speaker 1: Clementine Churchill's case, like didn't feel like she should make

1455
01:26:48,760 --> 01:26:50,679
Speaker 1: a big fuss about what she was doing to help.

1456
01:26:50,920 --> 01:26:53,040
Speaker 1: You know, so for years nobody knew about it because

1457
01:26:53,040 --> 01:26:57,559
Speaker 1: even she wasn't being vocal about it. Um. Yeah, it's

1458
01:26:57,600 --> 01:27:01,280
Speaker 1: it's it's really amazing kind of what we're seeing. And

1459
01:27:01,479 --> 01:27:03,680
Speaker 1: I think it's cool. I mean again, because people now

1460
01:27:03,760 --> 01:27:06,679
Speaker 1: have to come home and cook the meal and wash

1461
01:27:06,760 --> 01:27:09,240
Speaker 1: the dishes and make sure the laundry is done. And

1462
01:27:09,240 --> 01:27:11,080
Speaker 1: I'm get tired, and they're like, man, I used to

1463
01:27:11,080 --> 01:27:14,080
Speaker 1: write screenplays. What happened to that? I'll tell you what happened.

1464
01:27:15,320 --> 01:27:19,599
Speaker 1: You don't have an ANNIMALI that allowed you that that space.

1465
01:27:19,680 --> 01:27:23,920
Speaker 1: So anyway, UM, I just loved learning more about all

1466
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:28,040
Speaker 1: these ladies and his this crazy oddly it's really great,

1467
01:27:28,120 --> 01:27:32,240
Speaker 1: Like just now that sexism is over, so we can

1468
01:27:32,240 --> 01:27:34,679
Speaker 1: look at these things in a different way. Yes, sexism

1469
01:27:34,720 --> 01:27:36,080
Speaker 1: is done. Actually, I don't know if you guys, if

1470
01:27:36,080 --> 01:27:41,639
Speaker 1: you heard they made the announcement yesterday sexism over. Very exciting.

1471
01:27:41,720 --> 01:27:44,960
Speaker 1: Algorithm should have fed me that one, but I missed it. No,

1472
01:27:45,120 --> 01:27:47,120
Speaker 1: they didn't want to get you all emotional about it.

1473
01:27:47,160 --> 01:27:49,479
Speaker 1: You know. They were like, she'll get all riled up.

1474
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:52,120
Speaker 1: We can't tell your sexism is over. Should we get

1475
01:27:52,160 --> 01:27:58,040
Speaker 1: all emotional about it. Jeez. Oh, you never know, it

1476
01:27:58,120 --> 01:28:01,439
Speaker 1: might be that time of the month. I got and

1477
01:28:01,520 --> 01:28:08,519
Speaker 1: I throw my phone across the room. Well dessert, oh man.

1478
01:28:09,280 --> 01:28:11,280
Speaker 1: So yeah, I hope you enjoyed this story as much

1479
01:28:11,320 --> 01:28:14,960
Speaker 1: as I did. I'm learning about Frederick Douglas amazing, man.

1480
01:28:15,120 --> 01:28:18,439
Speaker 1: I love learning about all these women standing beside him

1481
01:28:18,479 --> 01:28:22,160
Speaker 1: and around him and everywhere around him. Get making that

1482
01:28:22,160 --> 01:28:24,840
Speaker 1: ship happen, And I hope you did too. Definitely, please

1483
01:28:24,840 --> 01:28:26,479
Speaker 1: reach out to us and tell us what you thought.

1484
01:28:27,000 --> 01:28:29,960
Speaker 1: Our email is ridic Romance at gmail dot com right,

1485
01:28:30,080 --> 01:28:32,679
Speaker 1: or you can find us on social media on Twitter

1486
01:28:32,720 --> 01:28:35,960
Speaker 1: and Instagram. I'm at oh great, It's Eli, I'm at

1487
01:28:36,040 --> 01:28:39,799
Speaker 1: Danamite Boom. And of course the show is at ridic Romance,

1488
01:28:39,880 --> 01:28:42,800
Speaker 1: so follow along. Hey, have you dropped us review on

1489
01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:46,080
Speaker 1: Apple podcast yet? Should totally do that. It's a really

1490
01:28:46,120 --> 01:28:48,080
Speaker 1: good way to give yourself a little emotional boost for

1491
01:28:48,120 --> 01:28:50,400
Speaker 1: the day. You'll feel great about it, and we'll be

1492
01:28:50,439 --> 01:28:52,840
Speaker 1: back theater this week with more exciting episodes and we'll

1493
01:28:52,880 --> 01:28:56,519
Speaker 1: catch it in can't Wait. Love you by so long. Friends,

1494
01:28:56,600 --> 01:29:00,280
Speaker 1: It's time to go. Thanks so listening to our show.

1495
01:29:00,800 --> 01:29:03,920
Speaker 1: Tell your friends neighbor's uncles in dance to listen to

1496
01:29:04,000 --> 01:29:07,840
Speaker 1: a show ridiculous roll dance m