Speaker 1: Warning, Today's episode contains spoilers for Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey
Speaker 1: in Imax See It Now. Hello, my name is Jason kccepcion. Hell,
Speaker 1: I'm rosy Nate and welcome back to the Extra division
Speaker 1: of the podcast, where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies.
Speaker 2: Comics, and pop culture. Company from I Heart, we'll bring
Speaker 2: you three episodes a week.
Speaker 3: Lass.
Speaker 4: In today's episode, we are joined by super producers Aboo
Speaker 4: and Joel to talk about seeing the Odyssey the way
Speaker 4: Nolan intended.
Speaker 5: On a big, big screen. We will also be talking about.
Speaker 4: Box office review, audience theories, and what's that really athena
Speaker 4: question Mark and production notes. Guys, we will be at
Speaker 4: San Diego Comic Con on Sunday, July twenty sixth. We
Speaker 4: will have a special news episode where we react to
Speaker 4: all those trailers, announcements and reveals from Comic Con Week.
Speaker 2: And Okay, the honysty round to table.
Speaker 1: First, let's welcome super producers Aboo, Aboo, how are you?
Speaker 3: I'm great, very excited to go on our own personal
Speaker 3: odyssey on this episode.
Speaker 2: And Joel to the podcast Joel, how are you hotty?
Speaker 6: Team, I'm elited. We saw a masterfiece and now we
Speaker 6: get to talk about it. It's like the best kind
Speaker 6: of podcasting.
Speaker 1: Let's let's quickly set the table with some numbers. So
Speaker 1: The Honesty opened last weekend. We were recording this Monday.
Speaker 1: It is a hit currently over just under four thousand
Speaker 1: theaters in the US one hundred and twenty four point
Speaker 1: five million, Nolan's biggest domestic debut since The Dark Night
Speaker 1: Rizzz one hundred and.
Speaker 2: Sixty million back in the day.
Speaker 1: International markets, that's one hundred and thirty nine point six
Speaker 1: million in seventy two different markets, so two hundred and
Speaker 1: sixty four point one million global. No one's biggest global
Speaker 1: opening ever, ahead of The Dark Knight Rises, which was
Speaker 1: two hundred and forty nine million adjusted Oppenheimer just one
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty million, so the third largest opening of
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six. Per available data, the weekly chart shows
Speaker 1: Odyssey at number one, one hundred and twenty four point
Speaker 1: five million, followed by The The.
Speaker 2: Bedraggled and Bemoaned Mowana.
Speaker 5: Live Actually yea Yeah Rock looking as bad as.
Speaker 1: The bomb is horrendous, The Rock, the Juiceless Rock failed.
Speaker 4: He changed the power power dynamics of the box office negatively.
Speaker 2: So huge, huge movie.
Speaker 1: And let's discuss our top line thoughts the Odyssey a Boo.
Speaker 2: Let's start with you.
Speaker 3: My top lane thoughts are that it's amazing, it's a
Speaker 3: near masterpiece. I hesitate to call it a masterpiece like
Speaker 3: many other folks out there are calling it. I think
Speaker 3: it is a great film. I think it is one
Speaker 3: of Nolan's best films. I would also argue not his best,
Speaker 3: but one of And I had a great time. I
Speaker 3: visually incredible story, incredible music, absolutely floored, like actually literally
Speaker 3: shook my seat because the theater was so loud. But
Speaker 3: the music just my heart was pounding at moments, and
Speaker 3: I like, I could feel my heart pounding along with
Speaker 3: the music. Really incredible. I think, just a true achievement.
Speaker 3: And I'm so glad that the box office is doing well.
Speaker 3: I think, obviously Nolan is a superstar director and he
Speaker 3: was going to get a good box office regardless. But
Speaker 3: to see it get a great box office makes me
Speaker 3: very happy because I want more movies like this in
Speaker 3: the future.
Speaker 6: Joelle, I stand by masterpiece in that a masterpiece for me, anyway,
Speaker 6: is sort of defined by an artist canon of work
Speaker 6: and where it stands amongst that can. This is everything
Speaker 6: Nolan has ever tried to do on film realized right,
Speaker 6: and women get to be a part of it. I
Speaker 6: have notes, I have notes. I have notes on how
Speaker 6: the women are a part of it and how much
Speaker 6: they get to be a part of it. But they're there.
Speaker 6: It's amazing and I think too, just from a growth perspective,
Speaker 6: like no one's doing real monster work. He went talked
Speaker 6: to Del Toro a lot. He's always been great with stunts,
Speaker 6: but whenever you add water, ask any production, that's like
Speaker 6: it's just risk incarnate. He's shooting on location, y'all, climbing
Speaker 6: mountains to make movies. Like if you're a lover of cinema,
Speaker 6: there's so much like Nolan gifts back like it's the
Speaker 6: best of the best in every category, like right down
Speaker 6: to your gaffers all the way up to like your
Speaker 6: producers and your actors. And like the close up of
Speaker 6: Anne Hathaway the rack Focus Puller Award. I don't know
Speaker 6: who did to do that, and not a ninety foot film.
Speaker 6: She's rocking back and forth and close up and that
Speaker 6: is never out of like focus. That's incredible. That is real,
Speaker 6: like a master at work, and I think to be
Speaker 6: able to see that in every single frame is incredibly rare,
Speaker 6: as this film feels like such a gift. I mean
Speaker 6: to the point that, like if you saw the Dune preview,
Speaker 6: like Denny writes a note to the audience, He's like,
Speaker 6: with so much respect to Christopher Nolan, I'm STI glad
Speaker 6: I get to present to you June three, and you're like,
Speaker 6: wait a minute.
Speaker 5: They're just such.
Speaker 6: Gravitas sprinkled over this film, and I think it's earned
Speaker 6: and then justified again and again throughout the film. I
Speaker 6: don't think it's perfect by any means. I have lots
Speaker 6: of notes, but I fucking loved this movie.
Speaker 2: What format? Discuss format? What format? Did we see it in?
Speaker 2: Rosie and I saw it in the Imax seventy mins.
Speaker 4: We saw it in the full Imax, which is like
Speaker 4: as big as you can get it? And that was Joel,
Speaker 4: you saw in the screening that was technically seven emilimis Imax, right.
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, so I saw I seen it twice at
Speaker 6: two separate theaters. I saw it at the City Walk
Speaker 6: that's the tall one, and then I saw it in
Speaker 6: the TCL. I do hate it I don't think the
Speaker 6: room is the right size, but then I saw at
Speaker 6: the TCL, which is the right size. I room in
Speaker 6: old nine hundred people and it's got a wider screen
Speaker 6: than tall, but if you sit in the middle, you
Speaker 6: feel fully enveloped. And I loved it. I loved it.
Speaker 6: I've talked to several people who saw it in thirty five,
Speaker 6: and our experiences were really different coming out of the screen.
Speaker 6: I'm a believer that format matters. I do think it matters.
Speaker 6: How did you see it?
Speaker 3: I always saw it at the press screening, so I've
Speaker 3: only seen it once so far, and I believe the
Speaker 3: press screening here in New York was i'max, not seventy millimeters.
Speaker 3: I couldn't get into the seventy millimeter one. And I'm
Speaker 3: waiting to see it again because I want to see
Speaker 3: it in true seventy millimeters i'm ax, like at Lincoln
Speaker 3: Center here in New York, and that is like it's
Speaker 3: like sold out for weeks, so who knows when I
Speaker 3: will actually be able to snag a ticket and go
Speaker 3: see it. But I really want to see it again
Speaker 3: the second time, but I want to see it properly.
Speaker 1: Who is our MVP of this movie, non Odysseus version. Oh,
Speaker 1: I have I have thoughts, I have many thoughts. But
Speaker 1: I'm but I'm I'm here to hear as the round
Speaker 1: table stocks Rosie your MVP nan Odysseus.
Speaker 5: MVP of the movie.
Speaker 4: I think for me, I mean, this is not going
Speaker 4: to be a surprise one because I think this is
Speaker 4: a generally accepted answer, and too because I was already
Speaker 4: a fan of this person. But I do think it's
Speaker 4: the antinous performance. I think that.
Speaker 5: Is so funny. He's so weird.
Speaker 4: He encompasses what's great about the movie, which is this
Speaker 4: balance between that high camp of the fifties, golden era
Speaker 4: of kind of Hollywood, which is, you know, the moments
Speaker 4: where he's hiding behind the pillar, kind.
Speaker 5: Of screaming sword sword.
Speaker 4: You get him, but like not going himself, and but
Speaker 4: he also manages to be genuinely scary. The stuff with
Speaker 4: Telemachus doesn't or or how do they they be saying
Speaker 4: it funny?
Speaker 5: Yeah, hell Marcus, but they.
Speaker 4: All of us start vocal stemming that stuff doesn't work
Speaker 4: if you don't have rob as like a really good villain.
Speaker 4: And also, I think the other thing I love about
Speaker 4: him is he brings out greatness in other performances like
Speaker 4: his his co suitor, those were such petty haters, like
Speaker 4: they have that own following Toggins.
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, so good.
Speaker 4: And then you know with Anne Hathaway as Penelope like this,
Speaker 4: she's so different when they're together, and obviously with Tom
Speaker 4: Holland so I think for me he's he really stood out.
Speaker 4: But there's I think you could really pick any of
Speaker 4: the cost from people who have two minutes to people
Speaker 4: who are on screen the whole time, and you could
Speaker 4: make an argument for a lot of them.
Speaker 2: Aboo, who is your MVP?
Speaker 3: Yeah, noan Odissey is. I mean, as a dog lover,
Speaker 3: my MVP is always going to be the dog shouts
Speaker 3: to my guy waiting twenty years to see his dad.
Speaker 3: That's gonna just I don't care how sappy that is.
Speaker 3: That's gonna get me every time. My real answer, though,
Speaker 3: is definitely who plays her. Samantha Morton as Circe. I
Speaker 3: love sequence just start to finish. She's so I couldn't
Speaker 3: look away, and it was also exactly what I wanted
Speaker 3: and at the same time totally surprising, and I everything
Speaker 3: she was bringing to the screen. I think I thought
Speaker 3: she brought the exact right kind of Circe to the screen.
Speaker 3: You know, I think you could have leaned to like
Speaker 3: hot babe Circe by casting someone like younger and hotter,
Speaker 3: and I think that would have been a weird take
Speaker 3: on it. But you also could have leaned too far
Speaker 3: into like old Crone, like ugly, gross old lady Circe,
Speaker 3: and that would have been the wrong take on it too.
Speaker 3: And this I think struck a really good balance. And
Speaker 3: the reason this was an MVP moment character for me
Speaker 3: is because I left the theater being like, I need
Speaker 3: a Surce movie. And if a few minutes Samantha Bordon
Speaker 3: had on screen convinced me that I need a whole
Speaker 3: two hour movie with her, she did it. Then she
Speaker 3: did a great jo.
Speaker 6: Yes, Chloe pick Malan Mill's book, Let's Go, Jason May.
Speaker 4: I just want to insulute with the nrty fact that
Speaker 4: I learned from watching a video that is relevant to
Speaker 4: that scene.
Speaker 5: Himesh Patel was talking with Waterstones.
Speaker 4: Or something I believe about the food eat ink scene
Speaker 4: right often how he was like, was it hard to eat?
Speaker 5: Was it not hard to eat?
Speaker 4: But what he revealed is that every most well, he
Speaker 4: said everything, but I'm sure that it's predominant. He said
Speaker 4: he saw all of the stuff of her transforming them.
Speaker 4: That was all practical. So when she was pulling the faces,
Speaker 4: when she was molding them, that was all done in
Speaker 4: front of him and he really saw it, which makes
Speaker 4: that sequence even more unbelievable.
Speaker 3: Of the Madeline Miller Sercey book too, And I feel
Speaker 3: like I got a little bit of that in this movie.
Speaker 6: Yeah, d percent, Okay, this is like the hardest question
Speaker 6: to be honest, because there's so many people who.
Speaker 2: There's so many everybody is crushing it in this movie.
Speaker 6: So I speaking a genuine I think Himysh Mattel is
Speaker 6: a personal MVP. He is such a good counter to Odysseus,
Speaker 6: and then he's also so fine. I was just like
Speaker 6: the whole like, sorry to objectify that man, but what
Speaker 6: is that?
Speaker 3: For ten years? What's going on here?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 6: The oil caid never ran out. He was fully prepared.
Speaker 6: But I think I think the movies MVP is John
Speaker 6: like Wizama. I think like Yumas is tricky right because
Speaker 6: he's gotta be a fierce warrior, but he's also somebody
Speaker 6: who's adjusting to a disability. He's also somebody who's like
Speaker 6: trying to train up this kid, but who doesn't have
Speaker 6: like a high status amongst the like royalty. Like it's
Speaker 6: it's a lot of layers to try to portray. And
Speaker 6: I think he's also the only person truly in the
Speaker 6: cast who exemplifies Zeus's law, Like if you look at
Speaker 6: everybody's like actions, he's really the only one who's consistently
Speaker 6: holding it up. Don't even get it out of Telemachus,
Speaker 6: you know, he's sort of there, but then he's fighting
Speaker 6: with his mom and like running off and not really
Speaker 6: thinking about the kingdom. Like mom's kind of their penelope.
Speaker 6: She's whole holding it down. But he's got her own
Speaker 6: like situation to figure out with all of these damn
Speaker 6: suitors and her son is an asshole. Uh, Like there's
Speaker 6: just a lot going on. He's the only one who's
Speaker 6: kind of anchoring this idea of like what does it
Speaker 6: mean to follow Zes's law? And then John plays him
Speaker 6: with such heart and such gravitas, and I really feel
Speaker 6: like he understood what movie he was in. Like to
Speaker 6: your point, what Robert Pattinson does so well is like
Speaker 6: the old Hollywood style of acting. I think John taps
Speaker 6: into that as well, and it's so, so, so excellent.
Speaker 6: What about you, Jason, Do you have an MVP?
Speaker 1: My MVP when I have a real MVP? That is
Speaker 1: like the version of my question that I asked, who
Speaker 1: I guess my MVP. I was also gonna play Samantha Morton.
Speaker 1: I think she's incredible.
Speaker 6: It's incredible just.
Speaker 2: Even the way she pitches her voice is so crone like,
Speaker 2: but also there's a warmth beneath the crone like manner.
Speaker 1: But I'm gonna I was gonna go with I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go with Elliott Page as the Greek soldier who is
Speaker 1: tasked with telling the Trojans what the horse is and
Speaker 1: essentially being like the propaganda deliverer of this Greek psyop
Speaker 1: to deliver the secret like ambush weapon into the heart
Speaker 1: of the city, and obviously sinn on his lie to
Speaker 1: is not told the truth of what it is. Is
Speaker 1: also like kind of like not supposed to be there,
Speaker 1: like took the place of uh Antonius because Antonius is
Speaker 1: rich and paid another person to go his family's or
Speaker 1: but he wanted to go to be fair to him,
Speaker 1: he wanted he did want to go but zooming out.
Speaker 2: It's really.
Speaker 1: It's Nolan's like longtime casting director John pap Sidera and
Speaker 1: Nolan in general, because I think, and we talked about
Speaker 1: this in our original just Reaction to the Odyssey, I
Speaker 1: think Nolan is doing something really creative and fascinating in
Speaker 1: the way that he plays off of the audience's understanding
Speaker 1: of these people who are playing the characters. And I
Speaker 1: think we're doing it in a fascinating way and in
Speaker 1: a way that I don't think I've ever seen another
Speaker 1: director do it like this. And I understand that it
Speaker 1: seems like I'm reading a level of intentionality into it,
Speaker 1: but I don't think I am. And we talked about this,
Speaker 1: but like, just to go from the top, Matt Damon
Speaker 1: breaks out as a young whipper snapper boy genius in
Speaker 1: Goodwill Hunting, and this all culminates thirty plus years later
Speaker 1: in him playing the Elder Genius, an older, middle aged
Speaker 1: man genius within the Greek Army. Everybody says he was,
Speaker 1: you know, the cleverest of the generals, the most wily
Speaker 1: of the generals, and here he is playing on that
Speaker 1: earlier kind of explosion into the public mind and playing
Speaker 1: a more tortured genius, someone who is very clever but
Speaker 1: is now like bearing the weight of his own cleverness
Speaker 1: and what it is unleashed into the world. You have
Speaker 1: Charlie Stern, who's spoken a lot in many interviews recently
Speaker 1: about being single and being single by choice and not
Speaker 1: wanting to date and you know, certainly not being able
Speaker 1: to date within Hollywood and entertainment circles. And here she
Speaker 1: is playing a drop dead gorgeous single woman who ends
Speaker 1: up single at the end of it after having a
Speaker 1: Hollywood relationship, you know, with Matt.
Speaker 4: You know, like you know what I mean, like happily
Speaker 4: ever aft, like yes, you know stifashion.
Speaker 1: We have Tom Holland, who is most known in the
Speaker 1: public mind for playing a perpetual teenager in Peter Parker, who.
Speaker 2: In this movie struggles with being seen as a man.
Speaker 1: That's like his whole character's arc is like why people
Speaker 1: don't take me seriously like as an adult. You have
Speaker 1: John Berthall, who's I think it's undeniable in my opinion,
Speaker 1: his podcast persona and his real life persona really is
Speaker 1: he wants to tell the stories of veterans. He wants
Speaker 1: to platform veterans, on his podcast, he's always talking to
Speaker 1: like X Special Forces guys, former seals, former fucking Delta guys,
Speaker 1: and really like talking about what vets went through.
Speaker 2: And here he is in this.
Speaker 1: Movie as the most fervent king King of Vets, the
Speaker 1: most fervent promoter of veterans. He wants to meet veterans,
Speaker 1: he wants to meet the sons of veterans. He wants
Speaker 1: to talk about what the veterans went through. And he
Speaker 1: is the main proponent of.
Speaker 2: The fucking war was good because he actually.
Speaker 1: Can't look at he can't process being having gone through
Speaker 1: that experience and having it be a negative and just
Speaker 1: like it an absolutely incredible thing. This leg was Amo
Speaker 1: leg was Amo once again is like once again in
Speaker 1: a Shakespearean type role. Yeah, and in a I mean
Speaker 1: Nolan is a jokester too. Here he is once again
Speaker 1: in a movie that hinges on the death of a dog.
Speaker 1: I could play play the same kind of role in
Speaker 1: that as the person who explains.
Speaker 2: How bad ass the hero is John Wick, where the
Speaker 2: dog died.
Speaker 1: And set the whole thing off. And here he is
Speaker 1: in this movie You're Not My Master. When he gets back,
Speaker 1: he's gonna fucking whoop your ass, same character and then
Speaker 1: like here is the one that I think is actually
Speaker 1: Nolan at his funniest Okay, Colwan Marshall Green has been
Speaker 1: spoken of, has been spoken of for years as a
Speaker 1: as a.
Speaker 2: T Woo Tom Hardy.
Speaker 1: Yes, he took the Now the original person who is
Speaker 1: supposed to be in this movie I think was Cosmo Jarvis,
Speaker 1: who is another fake who has the new tim O
Speaker 1: Tom Hardy, who has actually taken the the he has
Speaker 1: moved Logan down a.
Speaker 2: Peg on the t Woo Tom Hardy hierarchy, and the
Speaker 2: and the fact that in.
Speaker 1: A Christopher Nolan movie he couldn't get Tom Hardy, so
Speaker 1: he gets t Tom Hardy and the second version Tim
Speaker 1: Tom Hardy. I'm sorry, but this man is operating on
Speaker 1: levels that we have never fucking sang before in a
Speaker 1: cat Yeah, casting perspective.
Speaker 2: And what's incredible.
Speaker 4: Jason, I'm glad you've been thinking about this more because
Speaker 4: just quickly before I thrit to Joel, I think this
Speaker 4: is also why it feels like an old school Hollywood movie,
Speaker 4: because when they cast Cleopatra and you have your Elizabeth
Speaker 4: Taylor or.
Speaker 5: Whatever, and her romance and her lover is she's a
Speaker 5: great lover.
Speaker 4: That makes it feel like she's the right casting choice,
Speaker 4: and that's what you're talking about now, Jason.
Speaker 1: And then you know, obviously there is the more direct
Speaker 1: and obvious versions. There's Travis Scott as the bard, you know,
Speaker 1: very in your face, like with the you know, the
Speaker 1: referencing rap as storytelling. And then there's like the one
Speaker 1: that for me, I think is the most affecting, which
Speaker 1: is Elliott Page who he puts Elliott right at the
Speaker 1: start of the mo like this movie starts with a
Speaker 1: black man in an ancient Greek story. First voice you
Speaker 1: hear is Travis Scott, and then it proceeds from that
Speaker 1: to Elliot Page being sacrificed on the beach as the
Speaker 1: soldier who the Greeks threw away. And I just think
Speaker 1: as a as a representative of the trans community.
Speaker 2: Like Christopher Nolan is doing deep work with this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, with that casting, to say nothing of the fact
Speaker 1: that like Synon's sacrifice is the emotional through line of them. Yes,
Speaker 1: Oassees wants to get home. He desperately wants to see
Speaker 1: his wife. He keeps the little token shout out to
Speaker 1: shout out to Christopher Nolan, loving little metal tooken.
Speaker 5: He loves that token. There's multiples in this movie, but
Speaker 5: that is.
Speaker 1: Like interwoven with delivering Synon's token back to Antinous and
Speaker 1: righting that wrong, which is like a I mean, it's
Speaker 1: it's very deep. None of this in the story, by
Speaker 1: the way, none of this in the Odyssey. So I
Speaker 1: think I just think for me, it's the casting and
Speaker 1: agree and what Nolan did with the casting and what
Speaker 1: he's saying with the roles m is.
Speaker 2: Is pretty remarkable.
Speaker 6: Can I cherry on top that?
Speaker 2: Yes? Too?
Speaker 6: Okay, So I've been watching a lot of the behind
Speaker 6: the scenes stuff. I tried to save it until after
Speaker 6: I saw the movie. And what's been really interesting to
Speaker 6: me is, you know, no one says famously no chairs,
Speaker 6: you must stand. No one will stand the whole time
Speaker 6: as well, everybody on your feet, you're ready to move.
Speaker 6: We're doing a lot, we don't have a lot of money,
Speaker 6: and now we're shooting with these giant, impossible cameras, so
Speaker 6: everybody always has to be ready. The other rule on
Speaker 6: this set was no phones. You have any phones on set.
Speaker 6: So they did an interesting thing in casting where they
Speaker 6: cast all of uh Odysseus's men there the whole time.
Speaker 6: So I think from from the beginning to the very end,
Speaker 6: it's the same group of men who's in that cast. Well,
Speaker 6: joe Banna depo will you it's there like this is
Speaker 6: a veteran like thirty five plus actors, actors who've been
Speaker 6: through the shit, who know how to play in the
Speaker 6: background but can give you that rich depth of texture
Speaker 6: in between the things that Joey, you care about these men,
Speaker 6: and I spent hardly anyone on one time with them.
Speaker 4: It's incredible, Joelle, You're so on point because also another
Speaker 4: thing I found out is the men.
Speaker 5: You don't know who you see in the boats. Those
Speaker 5: are the men who fucking built the boats, because.
Speaker 4: The boats came with their own rowers who were then
Speaker 4: dressed as part of the crew and became part of
Speaker 4: that veteran cost So when I heard that, I couldn't
Speaker 4: believe it. But you're right, Joelle, like every single part
Speaker 4: is so intentional.
Speaker 2: It really is. Joelle. Now that we've just go this film, yeah,
Speaker 2: you have notes, let's hear them.
Speaker 6: I have some thoughts, some thoughts. Okay, we can start
Speaker 6: with the women of to continue this line of how
Speaker 6: progressive this movie is and it really is. It is
Speaker 6: doing what I think every adaptation of the Odyssey tries
Speaker 6: to do, which is find a way to make it
Speaker 6: relevant to audiences today. That's beautiful. It's an anti war film.
Speaker 6: You guys spoke really eloquently on you know, comparing this
Speaker 6: to Oppenheimer and what the differences are there. Really appreciate
Speaker 6: Chris being like, I'm gonna write some women they're gonna live. Really,
Speaker 6: I just want to say, this is not a critique
Speaker 6: on that. That choice was a strong one, and we
Speaker 6: love it. I think perhaps a few more women might
Speaker 6: have helped you detail some things out a little bit
Speaker 6: in a meaningful way.
Speaker 2: Sirs.
Speaker 6: I have no notes, really, I don't know if that
Speaker 6: was just an actor to director thing or what was
Speaker 6: going on there or said the symbolism is so rich
Speaker 6: already in that text. But like, you do some interesting
Speaker 6: things with uh miss Helen of Troy, and you have Lapita.
Speaker 6: She's right there ready to act in this movie, and
Speaker 6: she's so pushed back and pushed under and pushed to
Speaker 6: the side. It's like to the point that it's almost
Speaker 6: maddening where you're like, because she I think because they
Speaker 6: wrote the character so that she seems not broken and
Speaker 6: and like ready to use her voice, and then they
Speaker 6: never give her the space to use it. She's clearly
Speaker 6: with the man. You know in the original text, we
Speaker 6: don't see sorry, her husband winds up a like disfiguring
Speaker 6: her lover. Right he gets her back, he's like, your
Speaker 6: lover's figured to dada, come back with me. It seems
Speaker 6: like in this text in the film, they're like, he
Speaker 6: did this to her face, which would have been a
Speaker 6: really great story point that I think a lot of
Speaker 6: people miss. I think it's subtly there. I think it's
Speaker 6: hinted at. I think it's kind of in the background,
Speaker 6: and it's I also think the film doesn't take enough
Speaker 6: time to be like, hey, that guy's kind of a dick.
Speaker 6: He seems like every other end to be fair, this
Speaker 6: thing is kind of saying men in war not great people.
Speaker 6: But I just like, maybe it's a little bit more
Speaker 6: light here. I also think that I love No One's heroes.
Speaker 6: Big fan of Batman. Really liked Inception and Interstellar is
Speaker 6: a beautiful film. All of his heroes have a very
Speaker 6: strong through line of being the most morally upstanding person
Speaker 6: who's just really struggling to figure out how do I
Speaker 6: do the job and make sure my family's good. How
Speaker 6: do I do both of those things at the same time.
Speaker 6: That's really hard, and that is a fine story a
Speaker 6: lot of people are going through. It is so divorced
Speaker 6: from the original text version of Odysseus that for me,
Speaker 6: I wanted and I think it then like kind of
Speaker 6: removes some of the responsibility for the actions he's supposed
Speaker 6: to be taking on so much at the end, if
Speaker 6: Odysseus is going through this journey, we need to see
Speaker 6: him make more decisions than just shoot the Cyclops monster. Again.
Speaker 6: I don't think that I need to see him get
Speaker 6: too into the battle. I need the innocence hurt. I
Speaker 6: need I purposely lead my men into a bad decision
Speaker 6: because of my arrogance. He makes some choice calls, but
Speaker 6: all the time, I think from an audience perspective, you're like,
Speaker 6: I get why he would have to be that, and
Speaker 6: you're always on his side, and it doesn't kind of
Speaker 6: put that distance between be like is this guy really
Speaker 6: the one you know? And I think that makes for
Speaker 6: a Richard text. I think technically this is perfect, and
Speaker 6: emotionally there's some deficits throughout the film, can.
Speaker 1: I lightly and this might I would file this under
Speaker 1: your mileage may vary.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's why I so this is not a pushback.
Speaker 1: I think what Nolan was trying to do, or did
Speaker 1: with Lupita as Helen of Troy was do exactly what
Speaker 1: you said and show that she has deep thoughts and
Speaker 1: many objections to everything that's been happening in her name,
Speaker 1: and in fact, every time she tries to say something,
Speaker 1: James Burnt Doll's character is just like yay, and it
Speaker 1: leaves you being like, well, wait, what does she think?
Speaker 2: Wait? What does she think?
Speaker 1: Like there's even that moment where like she tries to
Speaker 1: say something about it and he just like comes over
Speaker 1: the top of her, And I think that's what he's
Speaker 1: trying to show, is this hell, Troy has deep objections
Speaker 1: and we will never know what they are because the.
Speaker 3: Fucking talking to Tom Holland and being like to you know,
Speaker 3: to tell your mom, I'm sorry.
Speaker 6: Like that part. I wish that had been a whole
Speaker 6: scene because I understand and I think that that works textually,
Speaker 6: But I think in the same way that I really
Speaker 6: really wanted Tom Holland's character to figure out how to
Speaker 6: be a different type of king. I wish his final like, oh,
Speaker 6: this is him stepping into his manhood. Wasn't a fight
Speaker 6: a physical fight, you know what I mean? The whole
Speaker 6: idea of him getting back. Don't get in the fight.
Speaker 6: You're gonna defend the gods. We don't need this kind
Speaker 6: of king. We need a different kind I feel like
Speaker 6: him at any point in time, being like I actually
Speaker 6: need to hear from her for a second, or differentialing
Speaker 6: or separating something more to allow for that, because yeah,
Speaker 6: I hear what you're saying, and it does work, it
Speaker 6: is effective. But I found myself really frustrated by it
Speaker 6: insane way. I found like, yeah, Tom's art a little lacking.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna give I'm gonna give my tiny haircut because
Speaker 4: this is again the shocking before I throw to a book,
Speaker 4: because I really want to know your notes is are academic, Joelle.
Speaker 4: I have counted this already to you personally.
Speaker 5: I actually this.
Speaker 4: Is the perfect amount of women in a Christopher Nolan
Speaker 4: movie for me, because every other time he fucks it up,
Speaker 4: Like to me, I'm like, this is perfect. I'm like
Speaker 4: he didn't care. There's not any like horrible sexual assaults
Speaker 4: happening like on screen, you know my and that's like
Speaker 4: I was very I was like, you know what, if
Speaker 4: he can do like five minutes of each woman and
Speaker 4: it's like some of the best five minutes of women
Speaker 4: that we get like in his movies, I'll take it.
Speaker 4: My biggest issue again, Joell, I agree with basically everything
Speaker 4: you said, but also not gay enough, like just Cininically,
Speaker 4: these motherfuckers would have been fucking and it's R rated.
Speaker 5: But you know what, no strange sexy though, so that's okay. Aboo.
Speaker 4: What are your notes to Christopher Nolan and the Universal
Speaker 4: exec boards.
Speaker 5: On the Odyssey.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I will say my notes are not academic. They're
Speaker 3: purely vibe space, so I'm not bringing any sort of
Speaker 3: here's my thing. I appreciate all of you laying out
Speaker 3: why you love the casting so much, but I disagree.
Speaker 3: I do think we are reading into intentionality that is
Speaker 3: maybe not all the way there. Some of it feels
Speaker 3: like a bit of a stretch, Like I think we
Speaker 3: have to acknowledge that a lot of this cast are
Speaker 3: just like Nolan friends. They've been working with them for
Speaker 3: a long time. They're in his circle, and he likes
Speaker 3: to cast the same people over and over again in
Speaker 3: his films, and so like some of these people I'm
Speaker 3: sure have just sort of like ended up in a
Speaker 3: role because he wrote the screenplay thinking of them in
Speaker 3: mind and was.
Speaker 5: Like, yeah, and Hathaway definitely.
Speaker 3: And Hathaway is like a prime sort of example, although
Speaker 3: I thought she was actually a really excellent and perfect Penelope.
Speaker 4: And does have fantastic meta context if you think about it, guys,
Speaker 4: misogyny going on.
Speaker 3: So you know, I think I had very minor issues
Speaker 3: with the cast, you know, And when I say that,
Speaker 3: it makes it sound like I agree with like.
Speaker 1: Wait, there's like one other than Anne Hathaway, who is
Speaker 1: the other regular Nolan Pattinson has.
Speaker 6: Worked with.
Speaker 3: Ash wasn't all the way back in the inception.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of these.
Speaker 3: Folks have been in like the Nolans of.
Speaker 1: Any of the You're not exactly like knocking down my theory.
Speaker 1: If you're not any of the people that I named, Jesus.
Speaker 3: I'm not trying to knock down your theory. I just
Speaker 3: think we're reading a little too into meta commentary that's
Speaker 3: like very insider baseball l A, Like I don't know
Speaker 3: anything about Charliet Teron's love life and I have never
Speaker 3: cared to know, so if that is some commentary about
Speaker 3: calypso like that was utterly lost on me and I
Speaker 3: imagine lost on most people. Like a lot of the
Speaker 3: like meta meta meta commentary here, I don't know, Like
Speaker 3: it could be intentional. Maybe Nolan is doing that, but
Speaker 3: does it work for most people who like don't listen
Speaker 3: to John Brenthal's podcast. Probably not, you know, like.
Speaker 2: A huge podcast, massive, massive podcast.
Speaker 3: I still not massive enough. I think for the average
Speaker 3: person to know like.
Speaker 5: I am, we're gonna have to have Christopher Nolan on.
Speaker 3: Yes, And again like this is reading into his intentionality
Speaker 3: without like having talked to him or hearing him talk
Speaker 3: about it in an interview or something. So I don't know.
Speaker 3: You know, again, I'm not coming at this academically. I'm
Speaker 3: coming at this from a purely vibes perspective, and from
Speaker 3: a ViBe's perspective. There were some casting choices that took
Speaker 3: me utterly out of it, namely John Berenthal's Metal House
Speaker 3: like absolutely insane choice to cast him cast him as
Speaker 3: metal hows and to be walking around with Tom Holland
Speaker 3: in a forest like hunting birds or whatever and giving
Speaker 3: him fatherly like kingle advice. I would just not take
Speaker 3: anything in that scene seriously. And I just he didn't
Speaker 3: give king vibes. He didn't give mental aus vibes at all.
Speaker 3: Like I thought that was like a huge miscast And
Speaker 3: I thought he just kind of brought his punisher role
Speaker 3: to it. And I didn't think he did anything different
Speaker 3: than what I've seen him do in the roles he's
Speaker 3: known for him.
Speaker 1: I've heard I've heard people have the same have the
Speaker 1: same criticism of Travis Scott, like being like, well, he
Speaker 1: just did Travis Scott, which again is.
Speaker 3: My which could be the medical could be like my proof.
Speaker 1: That Nolan Nolan is leaning on our public perceptions of
Speaker 1: these characters in a significant degree.
Speaker 2: That was my point. Could yeah it.
Speaker 3: Made so Yeah. I think that was one casting choice
Speaker 3: that did one hundred pcent land with me. The other
Speaker 3: isn't a I'm going to get crucified for this, you are.
Speaker 3: But I also dropped in our signal chapter we all
Speaker 3: saw the movie that I didn't like Zandaa in this movie,
Speaker 3: like I'm sorry, like.
Speaker 5: Things you'll go get bullied like you're on this episode.
Speaker 3: I will say this is different from me saying I
Speaker 3: didn't like Athena's character and the big revealing I loved
Speaker 3: all of that. I loved, but I don't think Zendaia
Speaker 3: brought that to life in a way that I think
Speaker 3: like a more experienced actor, or in my opinion, a
Speaker 3: better actor could have. Uh, he's gonna get bing, like
Speaker 3: I'm sure does Look even even last night.
Speaker 5: How could you say that about Hnny? You love a booth?
Speaker 2: No, well, that's that's why. That's why it's too It's
Speaker 2: like a wrong desert, wrong sand, wrong road, that too,
Speaker 2: that too.
Speaker 3: Wrong road. That's that's absolutely true. Maybe there's a bit
Speaker 3: of dune there. But look like I I even last night,
Speaker 3: I was like, I put on Challengers and I watched
Speaker 3: Challengers because I was like, maybe I need to gut
Speaker 3: check myself about Zindia, like to like, am I just
Speaker 3: wrong about her?
Speaker 1: Watch a clearly clearly inferior movie and let's see if
Speaker 1: this does anything for me.
Speaker 3: The record, I love Challengers and I thought it was
Speaker 3: a spectacular movie, but.
Speaker 5: More gay for sure.
Speaker 3: But like I I was like, Okay, Zendeia is doing
Speaker 3: Athena in this movie as well, and like Athena and
Speaker 3: I just think like she kind of like delivers everything
Speaker 3: in the same way and says everything in the same way.
Speaker 3: And that's why.
Speaker 4: Your you like you just you just don't like his
Speaker 4: endaa before.
Speaker 3: I just don't like a Zendea performance. It all, it
Speaker 3: all kind of sounds the same to me.
Speaker 5: Apart from Achani.
Speaker 2: And so you're not you don't wait, you're just like
Speaker 2: a You're just let's.
Speaker 1: Baseline this because anyway we need to we need this context.
Speaker 1: You don't you're not a fan of Zendaia generally. Acting wise, I.
Speaker 4: Would say, so went uncovering, Okay, And it's not even
Speaker 4: that I think she's a salad actor.
Speaker 3: I think in roles where she where she like, it's
Speaker 3: a fit, she's good. But I thought this was a
Speaker 3: misfit and it and thus she stood out like sort of.
Speaker 6: Like at I'm gonna.
Speaker 4: Be, how will be outside the Oscars with my cat
Speaker 4: like David Lynch trying to get her renomination.
Speaker 5: Before I know, I think I think it.
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna no no notice. I did have some
Speaker 4: moments throughout there were a couple of moments where it
Speaker 4: was a bit perfume advert Zendaya for me, and I
Speaker 4: did think, But I felt like by the end, with
Speaker 4: the reveal and with that kind of moment, her final
Speaker 4: look at him, that to me sold it altogether and
Speaker 4: wrapped it up.
Speaker 5: But I understand that we've uncovered something here.
Speaker 2: About which is the the enemy's list grows. We've got
Speaker 2: you already, everyone and then all.
Speaker 5: Disagree.
Speaker 1: I think the difficult thing about Zendaya's role athena slash
Speaker 1: war Victim is that it needed to be a role
Speaker 1: that delivered a lot wordlessly, where you just look at
Speaker 1: this person and are and have a feeling, some sort
Speaker 1: of feeling about about just the image, the aesthetic, the
Speaker 1: strikingness of the guilt, the sadness, you know, just like
Speaker 1: she this needed to be a beautiful, striking person. And
Speaker 1: I think even within that, I don't know it worked
Speaker 1: for me, I guess, is all I'm trying to say.
Speaker 1: And I'm I'm interested why in a wordless role like
Speaker 1: it really is like she doesn't say anything, like hardly ever.
Speaker 2: She says a couple of things.
Speaker 1: When he's on the island, but really not much and
Speaker 1: not much throughout. She just kind of appears and is
Speaker 1: and looks forlorn and sad and then disappears.
Speaker 2: What was it that didn't hit? Like, what didn't she do?
Speaker 3: It was exactly, it was exactly those few It was
Speaker 3: those like two minutes of screen time, those few words
Speaker 3: she said. I was just hearing MJ. I was just hearing,
Speaker 3: you know, like I was just hearing her other characters.
Speaker 3: And I was like, Oh, I wish you had brought
Speaker 3: something more ethereal to this, something more godlike, because from
Speaker 3: the very start, I was like, Oh, are they doing
Speaker 3: it like an Athena thing?
Speaker 6: Okay?
Speaker 3: And I and all I was hearing was her other
Speaker 3: characters that I've seen her in and I was just like, Oh,
Speaker 3: I wanted you to push your range a little more here,
Speaker 3: And I personally didn't know, you know, And obviously I'm
Speaker 3: an outlier there.
Speaker 6: Oh, Because it's kind of like with the Agamemnon thing,
Speaker 6: like when he spoke, people have been talking about like
Speaker 6: how they felt that was confusing given the really intense
Speaker 6: armor situation, Like why God, he's like a regular guy,
Speaker 6: which is kind of the point is that he's just
Speaker 6: a man. He's as killable as any And I think
Speaker 6: that was sort of the thing with a lot of
Speaker 6: the rules. This makes me to a really interesting question
Speaker 6: I've had about the movie, which is are the gods real?
Speaker 6: And were they there? The film opens with this quote
Speaker 6: of in a time of apparent magic. The apparent is
Speaker 6: really strong to me in that like opening quote, and
Speaker 6: to me, I think he's sort of making this statement
Speaker 6: on like your belief systems and as in, these things
Speaker 6: are not real, but your belief in them makes them real.
Speaker 6: And then we sort of it here and hold ourselves
Speaker 6: to these things because aside from the hades of it all,
Speaker 6: and I guess you could say, like the cyclops and
Speaker 6: the monsters and stuff, it just seems like the magic
Speaker 6: feels not as Yeah.
Speaker 4: She's definitely magic. I think the question is where does
Speaker 4: the magic come from? Right? Like his just the weirdness
Speaker 4: of ancient times.
Speaker 5: I have to say, Joel, I did have the opposite reading.
Speaker 4: I feel like the reason I love this and I
Speaker 4: do think that apparent magic is an interesting choice, but
Speaker 4: I also think it's a very good get out so
Speaker 4: you can have these conversations.
Speaker 5: I love this because I.
Speaker 4: Feel like Troy and a lot of those other movies,
Speaker 4: they will never commit to the powers. They never commit
Speaker 4: to the magical heel or the crazy hair or the
Speaker 4: Cyclops or Medusa, and I think for me the fact
Speaker 4: that he went there.
Speaker 5: But I will say I have been thinking.
Speaker 4: About it more, and I do think that the argument
Speaker 4: you're making, because I'd been thinking a lot about how
Speaker 4: Odysseus is basically his own ruin, right, which we love
Speaker 4: a story like that.
Speaker 5: That's the version of this.
Speaker 4: So in that way, he feels like he's being punished
Speaker 4: by the gods, but really again it's just his own actions, right,
Speaker 4: And that kind of stuff I think is really fun.
Speaker 4: But I do think my reading is there are definitely
Speaker 4: true magical things in that space that are real, like
Speaker 4: the Cyclops, the giants, like those to.
Speaker 5: Me readers textually real. Yeah, Sacy, what do you think?
Speaker 3: Oh, you know, I've seen criticism that, oh, Nolan took
Speaker 3: all the magic out of the Odyssey, took the gods
Speaker 3: out of the Odyssey, and like it's not the Odyssey anymore.
Speaker 3: And I you know, I think for what Nolan was
Speaker 3: trying to achieve with changing Odysseus, changing the guilt that
Speaker 3: he carries, externalizing that as a thing that like, oh
Speaker 3: the gods did it to me kind of undercuts his Odysseus,
Speaker 3: his whole journey in this you know by the end
Speaker 3: he needs to be a changed man with the guilt
Speaker 3: of what he's done. And I think it's for example,
Speaker 3: like the cea people reveal is like less impactful if
Speaker 3: it's like, oh, well, Poseidon, it's because of Poseidon, or like, oh,
Speaker 3: Zeus did this thing and it happened to me. If
Speaker 3: you externalize the things that happened to you, then you
Speaker 3: can't be held accountable for them to some extent. And
Speaker 3: I think having the gods in this film would have
Speaker 3: undercut Nolan's like core message. I think he kept it internally.
Speaker 3: These are people, These are humans, and they made choices
Speaker 3: and now they have to live with those choices. You
Speaker 3: can't blame blame it on Zeus.
Speaker 1: I think everything My reading of it was that everything
Speaker 1: in the movie happened as we saw it. The gods
Speaker 1: exist within the reality of.
Speaker 2: This film, and that.
Speaker 1: If we're confused about the Zendaia part of it, whether
Speaker 1: she's Athena or not, recall that, like a big.
Speaker 2: Point of conversation throughout, particularly.
Speaker 1: At Odysseus's palace with the suitors, is be careful that
Speaker 1: gods can show up in forms that can at least
Speaker 1: be likely to expect. And I think Odysseus in a
Speaker 1: certain way is he feels that, you know, Athena had
Speaker 1: his you know, favored him.
Speaker 2: And I think he, I think, what.
Speaker 1: You know, other than an expression of his guilt, which
Speaker 1: is true and the impact of like, you know, his
Speaker 1: trickery on human lives in the city of Troy, I
Speaker 1: think there's also an aspect of you, you know, you
Speaker 1: like you fucked the game up by cheating like this
Speaker 1: was this was underhanded, you know, like the fairness that
Speaker 1: he shows the animals that he hunts, where he gives
Speaker 1: them a warning to let them know he's coming of strangers,
Speaker 1: and he holds himself to that, but he got impatient
Speaker 1: ten years on the beach and he unleashed this underhanded
Speaker 1: trick that didn't just kill everybody in Troy, but like
Speaker 1: cost the lives of one of his soldiers that volunteered
Speaker 1: for the honorable mission to tell the Trojans, like what
Speaker 1: this that this is a piece offering.
Speaker 2: And I think in his in I think Odysseus feels.
Speaker 1: That that woman that I saw might have been Athena
Speaker 1: and that I've insulted her by fucking the game up,
Speaker 1: you know, like doing this, like go doing this underhanded trick,
Speaker 1: which is against even the way that I hunt.
Speaker 2: Animals mm hmm. And so I think everything.
Speaker 1: I think everything that we saw happened as we saw it,
Speaker 1: you know, like all this stuff exists.
Speaker 6: I like that because she says that line where you know,
Speaker 6: he's like, why don't God speak in languages we understand?
Speaker 6: And she lists a bunch of very like simple, basic
Speaker 6: as shit, and it's like it's the statue falling behind
Speaker 6: me while this girl is sacrificed, not good Sarah, like
Speaker 6: I was trying to make it as simple.
Speaker 2: What we.
Speaker 6: This movie offered so much. I wonder, uh, just for
Speaker 6: you guys, is there a single best moment of the movie.
Speaker 4: Ooh, I do think I gotta go with a boo
Speaker 4: Like I picked Arpats because I do think he is
Speaker 4: like a standout throughout. But I think if there's I
Speaker 4: do think if there's one sequence that I like, if
Speaker 4: I had the DVD right now, I would watch that
Speaker 4: curse sequence like five times today Like that to me
Speaker 4: is and the cyclops. I think the fact they did
Speaker 4: prectical effects, it's it's like I grew up on Harry Housen.
Speaker 4: That for me, I saw that on the big screen
Speaker 4: and I was lost, like I am a Nolan Hayter.
Speaker 4: And my friend looked at me halfway through the movie
Speaker 4: and was like, oh shit, she had Nolan pilled because
Speaker 4: I was washed away.
Speaker 1: It felt like the Dark Crystal. It felt like however,
Speaker 1: it's like.
Speaker 2: Dark Ship, one of those movies that you would just
Speaker 2: would be on and you'd end up watching. I completely agree.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think thee get those Beckers out of here
Speaker 6: is a top like just straight like snarling, like it's
Speaker 6: my vocal stem. I'm just really about that moment.
Speaker 5: Liquors is so good. Yeah, And I agree.
Speaker 6: With you, like I think I was talking to you.
Speaker 5: I'm talking, yeah, snibbling, absolutely.
Speaker 6: Talking to my friend. And I do think agree with you,
Speaker 6: Rosie that the psyclop sequence, Like I couldn't stop smiling
Speaker 6: the whole time. When they start to run down the hill,
Speaker 6: I'm like, oh my god, what is happening? Like it's
Speaker 6: just it's so big and really good. But for me,
Speaker 6: nothing beats to Anne Hathaway close up. It's just such
Speaker 6: an iconic just from a diva standpoint, like I know
Speaker 6: the gay's love of monologue. This is the new one.
Speaker 6: Immediately I was like, all the games will have his
Speaker 6: memorized by the end of then, like she's on point
Speaker 6: cameras on point a ninety face of Anne Hathaway in
Speaker 6: your face, like it's just delightful. Looks so good, Earl.
Speaker 5: I also like the line, the line where she said, Tim,
Speaker 5: I would have.
Speaker 4: You locked them all in that room abu them, Oh yeah, bitch, feminine.
Speaker 2: Rage, Yeah, Rosie, what about you?
Speaker 4: For you?
Speaker 5: What was the you know, I'm a sassy a boo
Speaker 5: a boo Oh.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think for me. We haven't talked too much
Speaker 3: about this in our conversation yet, but the sack of
Speaker 3: Troy sequence was just like chills, goosebumps, like shivers up
Speaker 3: and down my spine.
Speaker 5: Emotional faw of the movie.
Speaker 3: Ludwig is like cooking with the music in every single
Speaker 3: one of those flashback sequences yet again, yet again. I
Speaker 3: mean that Oscars in the bag undern I mean the
Speaker 3: just the Aura Farm as well, the gates opening for
Speaker 3: the first time, I audibly went, oh, because you just
Speaker 3: see you just see Agamemnon like Darth Vader standing alone
Speaker 3: in the darkness, and then the whole forward charges the gates.
Speaker 3: The sequence that they showed a couple of times in flashbacks,
Speaker 3: like him dropping the torch over the wall, and then
Speaker 3: in appear Darkness you see hundreds of great soldiers hiding
Speaker 3: waiting outside. Just chills every time we cut back to that.
Speaker 3: So I think like Sack of Troy was just next
Speaker 3: level Nolan.
Speaker 1: The sound, the lock mechanism that just goes on fucking ever.
Speaker 4: Trying to see. I also know, Joe you touched on this,
Speaker 4: but I also do. This is the kind of shit
Speaker 4: I love about the movie, right, It's like I read
Speaker 4: such a simple, but good, obviously correct read about that,
Speaker 4: which is like, the reason his voice is normal is
Speaker 4: because he is just a normal fucking guy, But the
Speaker 4: reason he looks like fucking devil batman is because to Odysseus,
Speaker 4: this is the guy who's the reason for his whole
Speaker 4: life being torn apart. He's a fucking monster. He's just
Speaker 4: a guy who didn't get his hands dirty and let
Speaker 4: so many men die like that kind of ship. Not
Speaker 4: only does it look cool, but there's emotional reasoning behind it.
Speaker 4: You know, there's there's fun reads. It's about perception.
Speaker 5: It's about his version of the story we're watching asolute.
Speaker 3: There was also equally like the fact that the guys
Speaker 3: are in there drowning. They're like, you know, all together
Speaker 3: this thing, Like I thought that was like as a
Speaker 3: kid in school, like you read the Odyssey and the
Speaker 3: the horse part is just like very normal. It's like, oh, duh,
Speaker 3: they hid in this little thing and then they popped
Speaker 3: out surprise.
Speaker 5: And the.
Speaker 3: Obviously, like I liked how this was, like, no, it
Speaker 3: was fucked up inside the horse, like all of these
Speaker 3: men are deeply traumatized from being inside this horse.
Speaker 6: I loved that it was not on wheels. They did
Speaker 6: have to stand it up, and they're shifting bodies. The
Speaker 6: geography of the landscape and side is still confusing to me,
Speaker 6: but I thought love the wise.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I also want to say as well about the score,
Speaker 4: because Ian put in like that the pounding the entire time,
Speaker 4: and we shouted out Ludwig. I saw Chris Fan Nolan
Speaker 4: actually talking about this and he said, I can't remember
Speaker 4: the exact name for what he called the musical arrangement,
Speaker 4: but essentially it is that the way the score was
Speaker 4: written is once that it speeds up, it never speeds
Speaker 4: back down.
Speaker 5: So it's just.
Speaker 4: Continually always getting more and more stressful as you go through,
Speaker 4: and there's never a release, and obviously there's no orchestral,
Speaker 4: which is the biggest thing.
Speaker 5: He asked Ludwig, So here's some.
Speaker 6: Fun that's that's wishing about the music. They had to
Speaker 6: like craft deceased intruments that are no longer being made
Speaker 6: and we have no historical record of aside from like
Speaker 6: drawings and some like written things on slabs. They reconstructed
Speaker 6: a read. They didn't know, they're no reed survived, they're
Speaker 6: not meant to. So they had to reconstruct a read
Speaker 6: to play this instrument that hasn't been played in who
Speaker 6: many like we don't know how many thousands of years.
Speaker 6: And then also there was a liar.
Speaker 4: I had phil a Liah.
Speaker 6: That is the level of craft in detail into just
Speaker 6: getting the instruments right for the score mind blowing. And
Speaker 6: I believe I know he's going to get the fourth
Speaker 6: I think.
Speaker 1: The way there's gonna be, there's gonna be, there's gonna
Speaker 1: be many Oscars for this. There is no I mean,
Speaker 1: it's a stretch right now to imagine a picture that's
Speaker 1: not the Odyssey winning Best Picture.
Speaker 2: I know, I'm exciting, like I don't happens right now.
Speaker 6: Well, they tend to hold off on the trilogies.
Speaker 4: Not just I was Dune could do it, but also
Speaker 4: I do think, guys, just a big one is going
Speaker 4: to be the new Korean movie Hope, which is the
Speaker 4: sci fi movie We've been.
Speaker 6: Told every good things about the reason that.
Speaker 4: We can assume that that is going to be in
Speaker 4: the running is it was released in Korea this and
Speaker 4: they decided to delay the release until November in America.
Speaker 4: So they definitely think that there's potential for it to
Speaker 4: be in the running.
Speaker 5: So we might not have seen them, but Jason, I agree.
Speaker 4: I think this is going to be like a fifteen
Speaker 4: nomination sixteen nomination situation.
Speaker 1: My favorite moment from the Odyssey is Yes, Robert Pattinson's
Speaker 1: so all the suitors, you know, like Ohlbi is finally decided, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's it. Tomorrow I'm gonna come up with a test. Okay,
Speaker 1: and everybody who wants to marry me be there and
Speaker 1: let's figure it out. And then she sets it up
Speaker 1: and it's Odyssey's bow. You got to string it and
Speaker 1: you got to do like he did just at a
Speaker 1: casual dinner one a million times. He would just do
Speaker 1: this throughout dinner, string the bow and then shoot an
Speaker 1: arrow straight through like ten axes or whatever it is,
Speaker 1: and hits the target. And you know, the various guys
Speaker 1: are trying to do it, and it's it's, you know,
Speaker 1: very Excalibur coded moment, although obviously preceding it by thousands
Speaker 1: of years, and none of them can do it, and
Speaker 1: they're all getting mad. And then and then it finally
Speaker 1: comes down to uh, I forget what's his name, and
Speaker 1: finally comes down to Antonius, and he knows he can't
Speaker 1: do it, and instead of saying of chickening out or
Speaker 1: trying and failing, he takes this incredible high road where he.
Speaker 2: Gives this speech.
Speaker 1: Odysseus is a hero to us all, you know, the
Speaker 1: hero of Troy and many other battles. We none of
Speaker 1: us could ever take the place of Odysseus, and I
Speaker 1: won't try.
Speaker 2: I simply will not try to.
Speaker 1: I can't even imagine trying to take his place. So
Speaker 1: just select the one who pleases you the most, and
Speaker 1: that will bring And it's this I said it when
Speaker 1: we do, when we at our initial reactions. He is
Speaker 1: so evil and so mushtas twirling, and so just like
Speaker 1: you want to punch him in the fucking face so
Speaker 1: hard a million times throughout this movie. And there's what
Speaker 1: this moment says is this wonderful thing of he understands
Speaker 1: also that he is disgusting and that his own vileness
Speaker 1: must be shrouded from people because his own instincts, that
Speaker 1: his own base psychology is so revolting to people.
Speaker 2: And he does it.
Speaker 1: With such precision and style that, as I said in
Speaker 1: the when I first watched the movie, I'm like, fuck,
Speaker 1: this would work on me.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it would work on it.
Speaker 5: We would have picked him, and it.
Speaker 2: Just like has stuck with me. His ability to go
Speaker 2: from the most like.
Speaker 1: Cowardly evil, like kicking beggars in the fucking even their pants,
Speaker 1: terrible piece of ship person to.
Speaker 2: Like this high mind best of a bad bun. How
Speaker 2: did you know, like how none of us could a
Speaker 2: law to ever replace the hero Odysseus. It just was.
Speaker 2: It's incredible, it's amazing practice, it is so good, and
Speaker 2: he's getting nominated.
Speaker 4: This could be his first No, this could be his
Speaker 4: first norm for sure.
Speaker 6: Do you think it's rare that they do more than
Speaker 6: two from the same movie in the same category at
Speaker 6: the oscars. I think Best Supporting Actor could easily just be.
Speaker 5: They could do it in a little fashioned too.
Speaker 1: So as as we leave this movie, then let's go
Speaker 1: through it.
Speaker 2: Best Picture nomination.
Speaker 1: Yes no, yes, undeniable, yes, okay, Best Director no, undeniable.
Speaker 5: Yes he's a white man, he'll get the best.
Speaker 4: Okay, Best adapted yes, probably probably right to squeeze that one.
Speaker 5: And that's cheeky.
Speaker 1: Best score, Best Original I'll be best. Best Cinematography, I think,
Speaker 1: so competition here I need to think about I need
Speaker 1: to think about it.
Speaker 6: But too excited about these ticket sales to.
Speaker 2: The industry.
Speaker 4: Have a full Imax movie too, so I do think
Speaker 4: that will do. I think we could see best Cinematography
Speaker 4: this year, and maybe already have.
Speaker 5: Probably I will say on big screen amazing.
Speaker 2: Best Actor. Matt Damon. Does he get nominated?
Speaker 5: I don't, honestly like if I'm not that buff. But
Speaker 5: if he doesn't get nobodated, sorry to that.
Speaker 2: I could see him not being nominated, being like the
Speaker 2: one snub from this I could see.
Speaker 6: But if we look at Mammon's like history, he won
Speaker 6: an acting award, so he's just got the writing one
Speaker 6: for goodwill hunting a bunch.
Speaker 4: Of times beloved because of that good hunting stuff. So
Speaker 4: he could get a norm, but he might not win.
Speaker 4: It could be quite like a career, which they like
Speaker 4: to do.
Speaker 6: I will.
Speaker 1: That's why I think he is at this point the
Speaker 1: leader in the clubhouse, because they love they love when
Speaker 1: they love making people.
Speaker 2: Wait their turn.
Speaker 1: Yet this is the He probably won't get another opportunity
Speaker 1: like this unless you know, we bought a Zoo two
Speaker 1: comes out, all right?
Speaker 2: Best actress, I think I like it.
Speaker 5: I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 4: I think they might put her him for best supporting
Speaker 4: depending on what the.
Speaker 2: Because she's a.
Speaker 6: She's in a lot. But I also think they're not
Speaker 6: gonna hurt Samantha's chances of winning.
Speaker 5: Oh why I put them against should definitely win.
Speaker 1: Let's discuss now, best supporting actress, who gets the definitely
Speaker 1: got to go to Samantha.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, no, Charlie's definitely not.
Speaker 6: Charlie's did not choose to this role.
Speaker 2: I don't disagree. I don't disagree. Okay, Best supporting actor.
Speaker 6: I'll die before I.
Speaker 2: Know for sure.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think Pats is going to be in.
Speaker 2: The Pats has got to be in there.
Speaker 6: I think John.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 5: I think both of them could get could be up
Speaker 5: against each.
Speaker 6: Other like it's it's it's impossible not to. But I
Speaker 6: think you have trouble okay because like the work Bill
Speaker 6: Irwin does. I know it's minimal, but it's so impactful
Speaker 6: to the entirety of the movie. It's that you would
Speaker 6: have unsung heroes Bill Irwin put in work Okay day.
Speaker 4: I think this could be a big year for this
Speaker 4: film in like secondary nominations and small like craft stuff too.
Speaker 2: I don't think, I think, I think, you know, like editing.
Speaker 4: Tomlin know he's sorry for him. I thought he had
Speaker 4: the juice, but it's not an oscar.
Speaker 6: But I do think Corey Hawkins death, he gets the
Speaker 6: arrow in the throat at the when Odysseus comes back,
Speaker 6: he's the first one killed. Uh applause breaking both of
Speaker 6: my screenings.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, people loved.
Speaker 6: It to be that evil and deceitful with the minimal
Speaker 6: amount of screen time he had. Like again, because Upper
Speaker 6: Patison is doing so much and because he has to
Speaker 6: be in best supporting category. It's really hard. But in
Speaker 6: in a week year where maybe other films don't quite
Speaker 6: show up.
Speaker 2: I'm.
Speaker 4: Well especially because the two of them are very much
Speaker 4: like part and parcel of the Rolls together.
Speaker 6: Feed off each other a lot.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so it could be a crazy year.
Speaker 1: I could see Holland not getting a nomination, and to
Speaker 1: be fair, I as so agree that it's not quite
Speaker 1: a nomination worthy performance, even though he is wonderful in
Speaker 1: the movie.
Speaker 4: He elevated himself to meet his other people that but
Speaker 4: he's not there yet, Like Anne Hathaway has been doing
Speaker 4: this a whole life.
Speaker 2: Though, I will say I think it will be.
Speaker 1: I think the narrative will be snub Town if he
Speaker 1: doesn't get one end day.
Speaker 5: I do think this movie don't do that to Tom.
Speaker 6: Come on, it will be, though, he because I think
Speaker 6: he elevated above what we're used to seeing, like he
Speaker 6: really pushed himself, delivered a fine performance. It's just even
Speaker 6: your voice.
Speaker 2: Going that high up tells me that you.
Speaker 5: Know what I mean, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It says it all when you're saying it was When
Speaker 1: you say it was fine.
Speaker 5: And your voice goes up an optive and a.
Speaker 2: Half, that tells me it's not a nomination worthy performance.
Speaker 3: I agree, I agree.
Speaker 2: I agree, I think we all agree with that. But
Speaker 2: I think I think he I think you know, watch
Speaker 2: Nolan also say that it was a snub or.
Speaker 5: Oh, definitely he loves what Tom did for this role
Speaker 5: for sure.
Speaker 2: Well, folks, the movies are back.
Speaker 5: Oh Sam back, It's bad.
Speaker 1: On the next episodes of X ray Vision, we're diving
Speaker 1: into impending doomsday and comic Con news.
Speaker 2: That's it for this episode. Bye.
Speaker 1: X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepsion and Rosie
Speaker 1: Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 4: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Korfman.
Speaker 2: Our supervising producer is Abuzafar.
Speaker 4: Our producers are Common Laurent, Dian Jonathan and Bay Wag.
Speaker 1: A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
Speaker 1: songs by Aaron Kauffman.
Speaker 4: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Speaker 4: Heidi Our discorded moderate, though