1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Inventing Anna the Official Podcast is a production of Shonda 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: Land Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. Welcome to 3 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: Inventing Anna the Official Podcast, your exclusive look inside the 4 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: making of the Shonda Land series on Netflix. I'm your 5 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,479 Speaker 1: host Stacy Wilson Hunt, and today I'm chatting with actor 6 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,760 Speaker 1: Katie Lows, who plays Rachel Williams in the series. Katie 7 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: is not only a Shonda Land regular, having played Quinn 8 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: Perkins for seven seasons on Scandal, she also has her 9 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: own Shonda Land podcast, Katie's Crib. Katie has endless juicy 10 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: stories about making Inventing Anna, including shooting the show while 11 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: she was pregnant, coping with the pandemic, and traveling to 12 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: Morocco to film the now infamous credit card fiasco episode. 13 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: Welcome Katie, How are you today? Hi? I'm really good. 14 00:00:56,080 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, Stacy and Top. My question I 15 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: had for you was to me, this is the sort 16 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,839 Speaker 1: of consummate New York story. You're a native New Yorker. 17 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: How much of the show spoke to you as being 18 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: that sort of only in New York kind of saga. Absolutely, 19 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: it's such a New York story. I was actually thrilled 20 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,320 Speaker 1: when I found out New York is one of those 21 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 1: places where you fake it till you make it. And 22 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: I went to college in New York and I can 23 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: remember the first parties I ever slipped through the back 24 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: door to get into, you know, through like, oh, there's 25 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: this girl on our in our dorm who's a model 26 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 1: and dating this like five year old rich guy. Of 27 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: course you can go with her, But like really seeing 28 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: New York money, old money that like East Coast you 29 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: are a trust fund baby, or you've inherited lots and 30 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: you're not welcome at the club unless you have all 31 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: of that at your disposal, and just feeling like such 32 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: an outsider and feeling those vibes that are so part 33 00:01:58,080 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: of the Antadelvie world and so part of the ant 34 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: LB story. Um, it's definitely not the New York that 35 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: I know when my mother t walks like this and 36 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: I'm from Staten Island. That's the other key to this 37 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: is like shooting in New York, all of the transpo 38 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: guys and grips were from Ozone Park, Queens, which is 39 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: where I grew up, and they would talk to me 40 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: and like drop me off on set and I'm like 41 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 1: I cannot be talking like this, I said, not how 42 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: Rachel Deloch Williams talks. That is true. You were straddling 43 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: two worlds, is what you're saying exactly. And speaking, of 44 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: course of New York and journalism, the show would not 45 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: exist without Jessica Prestler's incredible reporting on Anna Delvi, which 46 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 1: was first published in May of How familiar were you 47 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: with that article when it came out in New York 48 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: Magazine and the cut? I was not aware of the 49 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: article I was in. I was aware of the story 50 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 1: after the fact. Again, I think as a native New Yorker, 51 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: there was this sort of folklore legend story that kind 52 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: of reached all of us about this chick who told 53 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: everyone that she, you know, was a German heiress and 54 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: conned people out of hundreds of thousands of dollars, like 55 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: huge real estate people in New York and private planes 56 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: and she's going to jail. And I remember all the 57 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: mumblings of that from friends of mine that still live 58 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: in New York. And then it wasn't until I was 59 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 1: at a scandal table read and it became public knowledge, 60 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: either on Deadline or something, that Shawna was making the 61 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: move from ABC to Netflix, and then it came out 62 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: shortly after that. The first story was this article, and 63 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: I remember racing home looking it up and being like, 64 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: please God, is there a part for me in this world? 65 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: Because if I could be a waitress or a babysitter 66 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: or like whatever, if she'll give me a part, I 67 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: would like to play in it. And I remember getting 68 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: home and reading the article and be like, oh my god, 69 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: there will be women in this world that I could 70 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: maybe play. So that was really my first intro to 71 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: the Jeff Pressler article, completely selfish. Well come on, you're 72 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: an actor. Basically, I first inter was is there a 73 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: part for me? Hey? You know what, that's just the 74 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: Anna Delvie hustle that you have going on there. Come on, 75 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: that's it. So of course fans know you from all 76 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: your incredible work Private Practice, Gray's Anatomy, and of course Scandal, 77 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: which you just mentioned. You're part of the Shawn A 78 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: Lane family, but you still have to kind of go 79 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: through a process to get cast. Shawn does not just 80 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: texting you saying, hey, are you free on this day 81 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 1: to start shooting? So tell me a little bit about 82 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: getting in the door to play Rachel for inventing Anna. 83 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: So I got private practice and that was my first 84 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: introduction into the Shonda land world. And Linda Lowe, who 85 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: cast at the time all of Shanda's shows, was married 86 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 1: to Jeff Perry. Jeff Perry was my acting teacher at 87 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 1: steppen Wolf. So Linda had been watching me, and so 88 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: wonderfully had constantly been calling me into Shanda, and I 89 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 1: knew that at some point maybe something would line up 90 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: that would be a good fit. And the year before Scandal, 91 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 1: Shawanda had a show called Off the Map. I remember, 92 00:04:55,839 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: essentially a Gray's Anatomy Doctors without Borders sort of show, 93 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: and I went in for every single female doctor. There 94 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: are a lot of female doctors on that show. It 95 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: was a week where I came in for Shaunda and 96 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: I nailed it, and they said, yeah, but can you 97 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: come in tomorrow and read this doctor? And I ran 98 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 1: home and I rememorized all those lines and I came in, 99 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: didn't get that one, and then the next day they 100 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 1: asked me to for the next one, and I was like, wow, 101 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: I feel connected to her, like she's trying to find 102 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: what might be a fit. Turns out it was none 103 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: of those I got fired from that babysitting job because 104 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 1: I kept just not showing up to run back to 105 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: these callbacks. I was broke. And the next year's Scandal 106 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 1: was my first audition back and I remember reading the 107 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: sides and it was Quinn Perkins and my middle name 108 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,479 Speaker 1: is Quinn, and I was like, it's a side that 109 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 1: is meant to be. And I went an audition for 110 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: Shonda again. The next week. They called me back in 111 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 1: and I thought it was a call back, and she said, 112 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: I've already shown your first audition tape to the studio 113 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: network and they've approved you and I'm giving you the job. 114 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,720 Speaker 1: And I sobbed and thanked her and asked everyone if 115 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: I could hug them, and it changed my life and 116 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: for inventing Anna. When Scandal was ending and I had 117 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: ran home to read the j pressl article and I 118 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: thought there might be something for me, I just had 119 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: a really honest conversation because other people were sort of 120 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: sniffing around that I was available. That's a good feeling, though, 121 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: that people were sniffing around. People sniffing. I mean, it 122 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: doesn't mean anything until there's anything signed on the dotted line. 123 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: But some people were sniffing around, and I remember I 124 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: don't know if I called Shawonda or I texted her, 125 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: and I just said, hey, like, people are sniffing around, 126 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: but I want to be with you till the end 127 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 1: of time, shamelessly like is there anything for me in 128 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: the show? And she was like, I really think there is. 129 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: And I was like, oh my gosh, call off the hounds. 130 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 1: The sniffing ends here. I'm just gonna sit around and 131 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: see because I've had the pleasure of working in Shawna 132 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: Land for eight years and I am not curious about 133 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 1: anywhere else. So it's a magical place where dreams come true. Right, 134 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: Why would you go anywhere else? That's right? And so 135 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: she called me months later and said, you're going to 136 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: play Rachel. Literally, I did not audition. She said you're 137 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: gonna play Rachel. And you know what's weird, I kind 138 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: of knew. I just felt like, of all the characters 139 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: in the world, that Rachel could be a fit. And 140 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: so when she called and told me, it was sort 141 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: of like the puzzle piece fitting together. And of course 142 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: I was like very emotional again, just feeling very honored 143 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: and grateful and shocked that she continuously employs me, Well, 144 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: you are very talented, Katie. This isn't just a fluke. Yes, 145 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: thank you. But you know, I have a lot of 146 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: talented friends. You know. I run a theater company in 147 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: l A called I Am a theater company that Shanda 148 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: comes to all of our shows, and I have a 149 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: lot of, you know, wonderful actors. And I do think 150 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: also that Shanda and I just sort of line up. 151 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's the way her dialogue is, 152 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: in the way that I speak. There is this sort 153 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: of Shanda speak and Shanda dialogue that for whatever reason 154 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: just makes a lot of sense in my brain and 155 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: in my heart and comes out like I can memorize 156 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: her words in like one second. Well there's a real 157 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: rhythm to it. It's like such a fit for me. 158 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: You know what's cool about Shanda and her being such 159 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: a theater fan. I think that she likes to collect 160 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: like the ensemble vibe. So it's not coincidence to me 161 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: that Jeff Perry she keeps around, or Kate Burton, Paul Adelstein, 162 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: like there are actors who are very theatery actors. She 163 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: carries us around two shows because I think, not only 164 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: I think, do we deliver and we bring good vibes. 165 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: But like we bring good vibes to the table reads, 166 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: we bring the Shonda land sauce to the set, to 167 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 1: the crew. You know, in England they let actors play 168 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: different parts all the time. That's what they like to see. 169 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: But for some reason here other than her and like 170 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 1: Ryan Murphy, a lot of people don't like to carry 171 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 1: around actors. And I'm so relieved that when she globs 172 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:08,679 Speaker 1: onto someone or thinks that they're good and wants to 173 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: keep him around, she does. She's a good friend to have. Yeah, 174 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: So I want to talk about your creation of Rachel, who, 175 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: of course is based on a real person, and yet 176 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: you still have the task of creating something new for 177 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: the screen. So tell me, when you you find out 178 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: day one you're playing this person, what was the first 179 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: thing you did? What did you read? Did you have 180 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: access to the role Rachel Williams. Yes, So I have 181 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: never played a real person before, and I definitely have 182 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: not played a real living person before. It's an added pressure, 183 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: isn't it. Yeah, it definitely feels like an added pressure. 184 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: That's perfect way to phrase it. But at the same 185 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: time I felt like I wasn't playing Jackie. Oh well, 186 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: she's not a public figure in the same sense, she's 187 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: not a person that anyone knows. And I purposefully chose 188 00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: not to read her book. I didn't have the opportunit 189 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: you need to meet her, and frankly really didn't want 190 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: to because again, and yes, I did a little bit 191 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: of digging, don't get me wrong, Like it's very easy 192 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: in today's day and age to go on Rachel's Instagram feed, 193 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 1: and at the time, she was doing a lot of 194 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: publicity for her books, and she does have a public 195 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 1: profile that she's creaty. She has a public profile, which 196 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 1: again I looked at those things of maybe something that 197 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 1: could inspire a jumping off point, but then I really 198 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: started to just let it go and I really based 199 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: her on a friend of mine that will remain nameless. Yes, 200 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: when I read a Shonda script, it became far more 201 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: my responsibility to help tell the story Shonda was writing. 202 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: Of course, it's what's on the page that's guiding exactly, 203 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: and so for me it was more important that Rachel 204 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: be the vehicle in which that episode six and seven, 205 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: where the stakes are like no other, where the whole 206 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 1: table shifts and you've now conned a relatable, regular person. 207 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: So for me, it was far more all about the 208 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: stakes of the situation that this girl found herself in, 209 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: rather than me trying to mimic or do impressions of 210 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:21,079 Speaker 1: the real Rachel Deloche Williams. And what helped with that 211 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: so much was actually shooting in Morocco. It wasn't until 212 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: I really got to go there and I saw the 213 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: hotel and the amount of money and I started to 214 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: feel more real to you. Yeah, and the actors were 215 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: saying to me, we're going to call the cops, where 216 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: I was like, holy shit, that's she's afraid, man. Like 217 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: it says that she's crying in every scene, but she's 218 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: absolutely terrified. I mean, you hear those stories as a 219 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: girl of being locked up abroad. I mean, isn't that 220 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: like a reality show or whatever? Like that ship is 221 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 1: scary as hell, like you know. And then for a 222 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: girl who makes thirty one tho dollars a year at 223 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: her dream job at Vanity Fair to be in debt 224 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: up to sixty dollars for months and months and months 225 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: at a time where your apartment is going to be threatened, 226 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: your job, and also the embarrassment, Okay, keep a firm, 227 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 1: grip on your credit cards will be right back. Welcome 228 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: back everyone to Inventing Anna the official podcast. What do 229 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 1: you think initially attracted Rachel to Anna outside of the 230 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: access that she could provide, Like you talked about your 231 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: own experiences getting through the back door of clubs and 232 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: getting the nice table at the restaurant. Was there more 233 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: to it than that, because it seems like she's a 234 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: good friend and they actually cared about each other. I 235 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: think it was a lot of things. I have this 236 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: line where Rachel's on the stand and she says she 237 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 1: was interesting. Her feed was interesting to me. Yes, what 238 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: was interesting about her or her social media feeds? Photos 239 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: of art, travel, the editor in chief? I guess at 240 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 1: Purple magazine, so similar careers attracted you, both working in 241 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 1: fashion magazines, and I maybe had a leg up. Yes, 242 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: the a DF was going to be like an artful 243 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: Soho house with like amazing stuff on the walls and things. 244 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: And Rachel loves art. She loves photography. It's why she 245 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: worked at Vanity Fair. Julia Garner and I always talked 246 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 1: about this. If she had gotten the loan for a DF, 247 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: her right hand would have been Rachel. Oh really, that's interesting. 248 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: Rachel would have been running. I have goose bumps right now. 249 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 1: That's how I know it's it's true in an alternate 250 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: reality because Anna was the dreamer and this sort of 251 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:03,079 Speaker 1: like law the big ideas and making these big asks happen. 252 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: But I think Rachel's a work worse. It was like 253 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: Steve Jobs to Bosnia. Yeah, she's like your go to gal. 254 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: Like I think she would have been the person with 255 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,199 Speaker 1: the clipboard at a d F, and I think that 256 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,199 Speaker 1: that might have excited her, Like, I think that they 257 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: could have come up together in a way. It's interesting 258 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: and it made me think of something. When you moved 259 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: to New York. Whatever industry you're trying to break into, 260 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: there's so much of a veneer of pain dues. Right, 261 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: And you think I'm a young woman, I don't deserve 262 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: these jobs. I have to work for ten years before 263 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: I can't even be considered for that elevated position. Right. 264 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: And what Anna does is she comes in and says, 265 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: that's all fake. I can be considered right now, exactly. 266 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: I'm talented. Now, I have great ideas. Now I don't 267 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: want to wait. And so I think what you're speaking 268 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: to is Rachel has those same ambitions, but she's kind 269 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: of tucked into the confines of that, you know, the 270 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: Conde Nast structure. She's a rule follower, like she would 271 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: have slowly built up anything just through like hard work 272 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: and being like as nice person, you know, and like 273 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: playing the game correctly right, and and really I've known 274 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: people in those photo editor jobs that's do you have 275 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: to stay in a gig like that for five years 276 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: before you get promoted minimum one hundred percent. So it's 277 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: interesting to think it's more than this just this party 278 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: girl sort of accessory that she offered her. They really 279 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: were empowering each other. I think it was both. Yeah, 280 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: I really do. I think that they would have could 281 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: have come up together and sort of taken over New 282 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: York a little bit. Like I think they could have 283 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: been a powerful little team, especially with Nef good God, absolutely, 284 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 1: I mean, Nef and Rachel could just get along. But 285 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: and I do want to talk about but let's go 286 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: back to Morocco for a moment, because it really is 287 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: where for me the series shifts, as you said, into 288 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: something very scary for Rachel. We see Anna kind of 289 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: bilking these higher ups, these rich people along the way 290 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: and Nora and her caftans, and yeah, it feels very 291 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: Robin Hoodie at that point. We don't feel bad for 292 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: those very wealthy people, but Rachel's characters when we start 293 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: to personalize it. So tell me a little bit more 294 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: about shooting in Morocco. How long were you there, because 295 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: it is so stunning that I can't even believe you 296 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: had access to these places. It's just gorgeous. It was 297 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: the absolute coolest thing ever because I got to take 298 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: Adam and my son, Yes Adam is my husband, and 299 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: my son Albi, and it was the last time we 300 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: traveled abroad before the pandemic. You know. We landed back 301 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: in the States in the middle of February. There were 302 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: just starting to be commercials in Morocco of this thing 303 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: called coronavirus. So that just seems insane, but it was 304 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: so helpful for building the character. I mean, so Lawmmmonia, 305 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: which is the hotel that real Anastorkin and real Rachel 306 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: Delochi Williams stayed, where she was conned, where they stayed 307 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: in like a ten dollar a night Riod. We shot 308 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: in the Riod where this all went down, and you 309 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: step into Lama Munia and even the scent. They have 310 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 1: a pumped through the walls candles incense that is just 311 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: smells like amazing. You are somewhere other than America. Rich 312 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 1: Ammonia was gifted to Prince Almmon by his father in 313 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: the eighteenth century as a wedding present. Framed by the 314 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: address Montings to the north end the mosquit the east 315 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 1: our gardens state back to the twelfth century. It's one 316 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 1: of those places where you get served upon entrance the 317 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: most delicious almond milk moroccan tea thing, and everyone's in 318 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: these incredible outfits. I was literally staying in a room 319 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: where the guest book previous to my stay was Paul McCartney, 320 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:54,959 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton, Bradley Cooper. On the toilet I was using. 321 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: I kept saying that Adam like we are going to 322 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: the bathroom him with Bradley Cooper or like with Hilary 323 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: and Bill. I mean, it was insane and it just 324 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: really helped the like, Wow, this is where Anna called. 325 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 1: Rachel was like, you want to get away for the weekend. 326 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: It's on me. I would imagine as an actor too, 327 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 1: even though you're obviously incredibly prepared and do all your 328 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: due diligence the sensory experience of being smelling the air, 329 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 1: feeling the heat, feeling the drapey clothing, and they did 330 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: a great job. What's so cool about the episode and 331 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: what's so special about it. It's such a bottle episode 332 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: in a way, and it's its own world and its 333 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 1: own rules. But what's the coolest thing is that was 334 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,199 Speaker 1: directed by this incredible director who had worked with on Scandal. 335 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: Her name is in Zinga Stewart. She's incredible. Her husband 336 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: is Moroccan, she got married in Morocco. Her husband was 337 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 1: with us when we shot, and so her eye to 338 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: me how she shot the episode where you see the 339 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: carriages next to your car ours and all the carts 340 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: and the medina and all of that stuff, I think 341 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: she captured it. So I mean, when I watched it, 342 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: I was emotional because again I haven't been out of 343 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: the country since then, and just to see another culture 344 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: so clearly and vividly. I just think the episode and 345 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: Netflix didn't spare any expense to make the viewers understand 346 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: what Marrakech is like, because it does help with the story. 347 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,199 Speaker 1: It's because they're in Morocco and because of all that, 348 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: this all plays out the way it does. It was amazing. 349 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:39,360 Speaker 1: We were there for three to four weeks. Wow, that's 350 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: a long time. What did you guys do in your 351 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: free time? If you did happening, did you go to 352 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 1: the gardens that we hear about the gardens? Well, no, 353 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: I didn't go because I was like, that ship costs 354 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: like two thousand dollars a ticket or whatever, which is true. 355 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: We all learned our lesson about going to those gardens. 356 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: Lessons about that um on my days off. Lynn Paulo, 357 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 1: who was our wardrobe and was the costume designer on 358 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: Scandal the whole time, did all the clothes for this 359 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: and so she was in Morocco with us and just 360 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,919 Speaker 1: like running around with her. Which rugs should we get? Which? 361 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 1: Amazing hom says, Oh, I took a cooking class, cuscus 362 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: into jeans, and my husband was living his best effing life. 363 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: All the boys were. It was so unfair. This is 364 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: behind the scenes, goss. But like I'm working all day, 365 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: Julia Garner is working all day, and in Zinga, the 366 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: director is working all day. But in Zinga's husband who's Moroccan, 367 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,919 Speaker 1: is there as sort of like a fun chaperone. Mark Foster, 368 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: who's Julia Garner's husband is there, and then my husband 369 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 1: Adam shapiros there, so they're like a trio and they 370 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,400 Speaker 1: did a t V rides in the desert. They were 371 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,400 Speaker 1: like cooking meat underneath like caravans and under the sun 372 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: like every day we were getting The girls were like 373 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: hard at work and the men are just like out 374 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 1: living their best lives. So we really, I think, seized 375 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: the opportunity. But it does come through. I think we're 376 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: so used to seeing locations fudge for other places, but 377 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: I have to say, it really does feel like you 378 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: were there, because of course now we know that you were, 379 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: so I want to go back to the Morocco trip 380 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 1: and the fallout. Of course the credit card call out 381 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 1: in a moment, but I do want to talk. You 382 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: mentioned Nef. It was obviously so crucial to this puzzle 383 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 1: and to the story at large, and in rewatching the series. 384 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: In episode five, when Nef is talking to Vivian about Rachel, 385 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: Rachel took into I can it took. I haven't paid 386 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: Anna back. Everything she wore was Anna's. I think she 387 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 1: was trying to be Anna. Anna put up with that. 388 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: I don't even know that she noticed. She liked it. 389 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:47,120 Speaker 1: I mean, it's interesting, and in that moment, I wondered, 390 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: is Rachel a user herself or was she just allowing 391 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 1: herself to be kind of swept up into this Anna orbit? 392 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: What do you think? I think it's both. I think 393 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,880 Speaker 1: we've all done that. I have girlfriends now that when 394 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: I see them and I love them so much, like 395 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:07,919 Speaker 1: and they wear something and then the next day it 396 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 1: reminds me to wear something that's the same because it 397 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: looks so good on them. I mean, I do ship 398 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: like that all the time. We get imprinted with this 399 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 1: stuff very early on. It's young women. Yeah, I just 400 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: really think it was both. I really think that Rachel 401 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 1: and Nef are both users. I mean, Nef is busy 402 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 1: taking hundred dollar bills to finance her film. I want 403 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,360 Speaker 1: to wear and look like Annah Delvey because I want 404 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: to be taken seriously. And I mean I've had really 405 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: also very very very loaded friends before, and money just 406 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 1: means a different thing to them, especially in Hollywood. Two, 407 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: when people aren't wearying stages of success. Yeah, we're like, 408 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,159 Speaker 1: let me just get them for you, and I'm like no, no, no, no, no, 409 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 1: like please don't and they're like it please. It's like 410 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,919 Speaker 1: nothing for me, and you're like, oh, right, like we forget, 411 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: we forget. So I think it's both. I think Rachel 412 00:22:55,640 --> 00:23:00,919 Speaker 1: was swept up. I think Anna Delvey probably insisted and 413 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: then it just became routine. And then I think, yeah, 414 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: I think Rachel wanted to be here. Also, it was 415 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 1: open to the generosity. I mean, who would say no 416 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: to that? On Rachel says that on the stand her 417 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:16,360 Speaker 1: she says on the stand like and did you ever 418 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: offer to pay? And she says she would never let me? 419 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: I mean I believe that when she says that, like, 420 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: I don't see it, and I tried really and I 421 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,880 Speaker 1: didn't play it as that Rachel just took and took 422 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: and took and took and took. But when Nef says 423 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 1: that to Vivian, it made me think, oh, that's an 424 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: interesting perspective. Of course, you could absolutely see it that 425 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: way too. That's what's so cool about the show, and 426 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 1: what's so classic to the Shonda land sauce is that 427 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: there's no good, bad, right wrong. There's a lot of gray. 428 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: You can think someone's good one episode and bad the next. Right. 429 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 1: So when she gets home from Morocco and she has 430 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 1: that horrible three month wait and the ensuing meltdown takes place. 431 00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: It was very hard to watch those scenes where she's 432 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 1: at work. Are you firing me? If an investigation finds 433 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: that you were in on it, we'll be calling in 434 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 1: the police. Wait, I didn't take any of it. Stay 435 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,640 Speaker 1: at the hotel, didn't You Can't you understand what I've 436 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 1: gone through. You helped your friend defraud this company, your 437 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: neck deep in this, Rachel. Have you ever felt that 438 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: kind of professional panic in real life where something was 439 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: out of your control but you knew that there was 440 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: so much on the line for your own future. Yeah, 441 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: I was audited like two years in Arrow. That's scary. 442 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,439 Speaker 1: Oh my god. It was fucking terrifying. Like I was 443 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: a waiter making no money for a really long time, 444 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: and I booked one series that got canceled after seven episodes. 445 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: But those seven episodes, I made more money than I 446 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: had ever made, And so the government was like, what 447 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 1: the f So you were sort of flagged in a side. 448 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: I was flagged, and I filed incorrectly with a accountant 449 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: who doesn't specialize in the entertainment industry because I didn't 450 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 1: know that that existed. I didn't know what the hell 451 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: was going on, and I got audited two years in 452 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: a row. Every single time I got stacks in my 453 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: mailbox of paperwork thicker than you could ever imagine of 454 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 1: ship that I had to fill out and prove and 455 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: say that it wasn't lying and I was going to 456 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 1: owe forty dollars back, which I didn't have. I was hysterical. 457 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 1: I mean, could I have moved home with my parents? 458 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: I think Rachel could have done that too, but oh 459 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: my god, right, but here you are in the throes 460 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 1: of building your career, wanting to be and how embarrassing. 461 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: So anyway, I just think about that all the time, 462 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: and the feeling of dread I would feel because the 463 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: I R s when after me, Like it was really hard. 464 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 1: Two years in a row. It was super stressful, and 465 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: you'd have an okay week where you would feel fine, 466 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:51,919 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, some ship would come 467 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 1: in the mail that would just rip the bottom out 468 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: from under you and have you in cot sweats, cold sweats, 469 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: panic attack, keeping you up all night long figuring out 470 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 1: what am I going to do when they say I 471 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: have to give them and I don't have it, and 472 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: I don't understand what I did wrong, and how I 473 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,639 Speaker 1: could have prevented this when I'm a good person. It 474 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 1: looked you see this, I'm already like sounding deliberation, but 475 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: like that's where she's at. She's like, I don't understand. 476 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,719 Speaker 1: My friend was in big, fat trouble. I was going 477 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: to get arrested. I gave my card. I did what 478 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: any sensible person would do. And also, have you ever 479 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: met a con artist? Not that I know of? Yeah, 480 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,439 Speaker 1: me either, And she was up against someone who was good. 481 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: I can't. I kept reading in my researching. You know, 482 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:40,719 Speaker 1: when someone cons you, it starts small and before you 483 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: know it, you've been wrapped up. And that's sort of 484 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: I feel like, also what happened with Rachel and Anna. 485 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,360 Speaker 1: But it was like, first, can you just get the tickets? 486 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: I'm too busy today, And she gets the tickets and 487 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 1: then she's like, oh, ship, I don't have it for 488 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: the gardens. Can you do the gardens? And then can 489 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 1: you just do this dinner? And all of a sudden 490 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 1: it's too late for on. Leading up to this, all 491 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,199 Speaker 1: she has seen is being taken care of financially by 492 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: this person. Hundred dollar bill over hundred dollar bill, undo. 493 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 1: At the hotel, living in a hotel anyway, It's interesting. 494 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: We're used to hearing this type of story as it 495 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: relates to a romantic relationship, you know, you've heard of 496 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 1: men and women, you know, So, oh, I was conned 497 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: by this person. I thought I was marrying. And I 498 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: have heard that a bunch before, and I think we 499 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:25,879 Speaker 1: just aren't used to seeing it in the context of 500 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: a friendship. And I think that's what's harder to parse, 501 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 1: because there isn't sex involved, there isn't romance. You would think, well, 502 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 1: why couldn't you just see the light, and and you 503 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 1: see how intrenched she was, and it's you just feel 504 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: so badly for her, and she's still in trench. You know. 505 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: Julia and I talked a lot about there's the scene 506 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: in Morocco where I'm packing my stuff and leaving and 507 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: she's really drunk. We played that as our breakup scene. 508 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: Oh interesting, and that came across actually, and I really 509 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 1: want to celebrate with you, but I'm not feeling, well, hey, 510 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 1: I might have caught like what we're Casey had because 511 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: they had such poisoning. If you had what she had, 512 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 1: you would have felt it. Yeah, Um, I don't know. 513 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: Maybe it actually was a stomach book. Rachel, don't go. 514 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I have to again. I do think the 515 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 1: lines are blurred. When you're a best friend with someone 516 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: who's like a new best friend, you're obsessed with them 517 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: like you are someone who you're romantically involved with. Your 518 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 1: thinking about what should I wear in front of them, 519 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: and like, oh my god, do I text them that? 520 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: Like does that sound stupid? Is that funny? Um? Can 521 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: I wear what they're wearing? We were really lucky the 522 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: minute we met Julia and I really like girl eed 523 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 1: out from the second we met at table reads like 524 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: I want to be just like obsessed with her as 525 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: my friend because I feel like that'll be really good 526 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: for Rachel and Anna. We were just like really touchy, 527 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: always holding hands, always like getting really into those Instagram 528 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: photo shoots which were used in the show, and you know, 529 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: kissy kissy faces and like all that stuff, but having 530 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: the best time. Amidst all the drama. You do seem 531 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 1: to be having fun, which is kind of the whole 532 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: point of all this. Right, Yes, okay, if your one, 533 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: it's about that time. Just a quick message from our sponsors, Hey, there, 534 00:29:52,880 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: thanks for sticking around. So I want to talk about 535 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: episodes seven, the infamous intervention moment. Casey is so careful 536 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: not wanting to step in this. She's finally seeing like, 537 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: you don't really want to be involved in this, but 538 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: she feels for Rachel, and she tells Rachel step into 539 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: your power to take control. Stop being afraid. And it's 540 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: so hurtful in that scene where Anna essentially diminishes Rachel 541 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: so intensely, saying, you just crave this drama. I'm a boss, 542 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: I'm trying to build a foundation, and I'm surrounded by 543 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: a bunch of alas you know, I am begging. I'm 544 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 1: joining everything I can do. You You think I have time 545 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: to waste with this? Your money is coming Just listen 546 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: for me. That was one of the most hurtful scenes 547 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: in the show because in a split second she diminishes 548 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: everything that they ever had as friends. How did that 549 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: scene play to you and how much hurt did you 550 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: infuse into that moment? That was one of the first 551 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: scenes we ever shot. Oh really to start there too 552 00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: at this arc that has just come before that one. 553 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: I know that's TV making. It's so hard. It's really 554 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: hard at times, you know that to me is the 555 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: scene where Rachel catches the whiff that she is a sociopath. 556 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: She's so cold, so so cold. Julia does a beautiful 557 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: job of playing someone who does not feel or understand empathy. 558 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 1: I do think, like my personal opinions, I think it 559 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: could have gone the other way really easily. I think 560 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: she could have gotten Alane. I think she could have 561 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: started a d F, and a d F might and 562 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: may have been extremely successful. So she was held back 563 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: by her own personality flaws. I think she was held 564 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: back by society really and maybe personality flaws. But I 565 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: do think that she's The performance in that scene is 566 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: when you see a friend that's crying and you feel nothing. 567 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 1: It's where everything from Rachel changes into I'm on a mission. 568 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: And from that scene is when she goes to her 569 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: apartment and she starts planning to my face while I 570 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: was crying, she said, I crave drama like our friendship 571 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 1: meant nothing, Like what she's putting me through meant nothing. 572 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: If she wants a drama, she's going to get it, 573 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: So walk me. From that point to when we see 574 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: Rachel officially stepping into her power and helping the police 575 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: and helping to facilitate Anna's capture because while we understand 576 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: Rachel's motivation because any of us would be livid and 577 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: so hurt, it's still surprising because of their history walk 578 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: me through your journey and preparing for that. I think 579 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: she realizes in that intervention scene that she's not dealing 580 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: with a sympathetic human being. I think she learns, like 581 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 1: she says, like, what would Anna do in this situation? 582 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: She would be selfish, She would figure out how to 583 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: get herself out of this mess. And Rachel was in 584 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: a big fat mess and really thought about how do 585 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 1: I get myself out of this? And I think she 586 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: does a lot of growing up in the series. And 587 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: I think she does a lot of growing up from 588 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: that moment all the way through when you realize she 589 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: has sold the story herself to three different buyers, when 590 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 1: she decides to get up on the stand, all of 591 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: that is her making a decision and going for what 592 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: she wants. What's interesting Anna. While Anna hurt her in 593 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: immense ways, Anna could be the largest figure in Rachel's 594 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: life because she taught her this is how the world works. Right. 595 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: You can't stay at a job for thirty two grand 596 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 1: a year and expect people to be thinking about your 597 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: next move, you have to constantly be thinking for yourself. 598 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: So it's that balance of looking out for yourself but 599 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 1: also not being a sociopath along the way, right, I 600 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:59,479 Speaker 1: think Rachel was completely completely formed by this experience, without 601 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: a doubt, and for better or worse, I imagine both. 602 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 1: So going to the trial, which is obviously such an 603 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:09,400 Speaker 1: incredible piece of the saga for the jurors, what do 604 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 1: you think was the hardest part of their jobs in 605 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 1: parsing out what was guilty and what was non guilty 606 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: not guilty? I know, because they let the Rachel the 607 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 1: Rachel case, she was found not guilty, correct, which you 608 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,400 Speaker 1: know we could we talked about sort of karma, friendship karma. 609 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: The Anna character probably felt a little bit vindicated in that, 610 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 1: and I think the jury swung the other way the 611 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,760 Speaker 1: minute they found out that Rachel had six hundred thousand 612 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 1: dollars and was going to be okay. I think if 613 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 1: that had never come up, they would have found her guilty. 614 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,279 Speaker 1: I don't want my testimony to be misconstrued or seen 615 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: as a ploy for my own benefit, because it's not. 616 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 1: It's not about entertainment, it's about law and order. And 617 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: a cry for you. It is about entertainment though, right, 618 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: this is about a trauma. This is about the judicial 619 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: system in America warning others. So this is not about entertainment. 620 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 1: This is the most trauma the thing that I have 621 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,240 Speaker 1: ever been through. I understand all that, but this traumatic 622 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,720 Speaker 1: experience that you went through, you sold the three separate people. 623 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:11,840 Speaker 1: What would you have thought if you were on that jury. 624 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 1: What would have been the hardest part of your of 625 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: your job, as I would have been terrified of an 626 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 1: Adelbe despite her trial style and how she would have 627 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: been terrified. Um, I think it would have been really 628 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,759 Speaker 1: I can't even imagine the conversations in that room, just 629 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:36,280 Speaker 1: so complicated, and also the split among gender age. Yes, 630 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just that's why the story is so 631 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 1: good and people are so excited to see it. It's 632 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 1: so complicated. I can remember getting up on the stand 633 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:49,719 Speaker 1: and sort of crying, and Matt Byrne, the writer who 634 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: wrote that episode nine and and he came up to 635 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 1: me because he was actually there when it happened, right, 636 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 1: he'd been in the courtroom. He had been in the courtroom, 637 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:03,240 Speaker 1: and he said to me, no, Katie, she's like ugly 638 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: crying in front of everybody. Rachel was Yeah, he was like, 639 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,279 Speaker 1: like the kind of crying that you would never show anyone. 640 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:15,319 Speaker 1: They had to stop the proceedings because she was so emotional, 641 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: and I was like, oh no, you're like, oh, we're 642 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 1: going there now. Those days were just spent the most 643 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,239 Speaker 1: breakdowns in the history of the planet. My eyes just 644 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 1: swollen shut, Like, how did it feel to hear that 645 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,319 Speaker 1: from Matt Because for so long you'd probably tried to 646 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 1: separate yourself from the real person, from the real events, 647 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: and here you were sitting almost in the exact sort 648 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 1: of scenario, having the same emotional output. That must have 649 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,439 Speaker 1: been another one of those Moroccan moments where you thought 650 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,880 Speaker 1: this really happened to somebody. Yeah, it just changed the 651 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: I mean, it definitely changed the performance, But it also 652 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:58,760 Speaker 1: changed for me how she was so desperate and scared 653 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 1: all along, and there room is like all of the 654 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,239 Speaker 1: PTSD and the months and months of not sleeping, and 655 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: the months and months of questioning your own sanity and 656 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,440 Speaker 1: your own worth and everyone finding this out about you 657 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:14,799 Speaker 1: that you had been conned and having to now put 658 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: it on display. I mean, it was horrible, horrible, as 659 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: much as it was. She wanted it to be her 660 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 1: powerful moment. I really think it ended up being a mess. 661 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: It wasn't the way she probably would have wanted to 662 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,799 Speaker 1: end this whole ordeal. She could not put a bow 663 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:32,840 Speaker 1: on it to move on. Even though she had written 664 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,319 Speaker 1: her piece, she had a book deal, the mess was 665 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,360 Speaker 1: still there. And I think at the center of that 666 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 1: is the embarrassment of having been taken by this person. 667 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 1: And Norah speaks to that earlier in the series when 668 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,439 Speaker 1: Vivian asked her, why didn't you report this? Why didn't 669 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,799 Speaker 1: you report that Anna stall these you know, ran up 670 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 1: the credit card. It was humiliating. She took advantage of 671 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:59,399 Speaker 1: me and I had no idea. So this idea that 672 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 1: someone could be so egregiously manipulated, you really see that 673 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,480 Speaker 1: as like a through line of trauma among these characters. 674 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:09,480 Speaker 1: It's it's so embarrassing. Yeah, So before we wrap, I 675 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 1: did want to give you a shout out for not 676 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 1: only making the show during COVID post production, all the 677 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 1: incredible work that went into the series, but you also 678 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,319 Speaker 1: had a second child. Can you be so tell me 679 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 1: a little bit about how you were able to do this. 680 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: This is so funny, This is why I was thinking 681 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:29,440 Speaker 1: about the courtroom scenes in episode nine because maybe this 682 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 1: is t m I, but I don't care, Katie. Your 683 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,680 Speaker 1: whole brand is TAMA good good, good good. Well you're right. 684 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 1: The whole week we were in the courtroom was the 685 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,399 Speaker 1: week of shutdown, So this is like March nine, and 686 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,840 Speaker 1: I was trying to have a baby that same week. Wow, 687 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 1: I'll never forget it, because times were scary, you know, 688 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,319 Speaker 1: like we were losing extras every day to some sort 689 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,719 Speaker 1: of symptoms and not knowing what COVID was, and all 690 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,200 Speaker 1: of a sudden, people were running around the set like 691 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 1: sanitize all the door knobs, and the food shifted from 692 00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: being sort of like a buffet style to all individually wrapped, 693 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:08,920 Speaker 1: I mean, things that we are now getting used to. 694 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 1: But and we shut down March thirteenth, and I ran 695 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,399 Speaker 1: home to l A March thirteenth at eight am because 696 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,520 Speaker 1: I was getting these weird tech saying New York's going 697 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:21,000 Speaker 1: to shut down. There's not gonna be any way in 698 00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 1: or any way out. And we went back to l A. 699 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 1: And one week later, March eighteenth, I was like, I 700 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:33,959 Speaker 1: think I'm pregnant. Wow, I was pregnant and right after 701 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,200 Speaker 1: telling my husband, I called Shonda because I thought we 702 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 1: were going back to work in like two weeks, and 703 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 1: I said, um, I'm pregnant. I'm terrified, to which she 704 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 1: was the best friend a girl could ask. Horton was like, 705 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,360 Speaker 1: I'm already talking to medical staff. You're gonna be fine. 706 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,359 Speaker 1: After she said congratulations and flipped out. Of course, it's 707 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,840 Speaker 1: certainly excited and supportive, but she was very, very caring 708 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 1: in to make sure that she real thought I was 709 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,439 Speaker 1: gonna be okay, and she was right. I was, thank god. 710 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 1: But also I spent my whole pregnancy basically quarantined up 711 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,439 Speaker 1: with the show not going back, and then the show 712 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:16,040 Speaker 1: went back in the September after shut down, and I 713 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,600 Speaker 1: was do with my baby in November. And this is 714 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,480 Speaker 1: why Shawna Land Shawnda Land and why she's the best. 715 00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:24,799 Speaker 1: But she was like, We're just going to take all 716 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,799 Speaker 1: of your leftover Rachel scenes, which was a lot. I 717 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,080 Speaker 1: thought it wasn't it was. It was all of five 718 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: everything that's the friends and the parties and the I 719 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,160 Speaker 1: had to do all of episode five and then some 720 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,919 Speaker 1: other little things here and there. Five six days of work, 721 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,360 Speaker 1: which is not a little she said, I'm going to 722 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,120 Speaker 1: put them all. At the last five or six days 723 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,920 Speaker 1: of the entire shoots, I had my baby had a 724 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 1: four month maternity leave. I was so freaking taken care of. 725 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: But I also was kind of concerned because I was like, Ship, 726 00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:58,799 Speaker 1: we're going to cut this all together, and I've worked 727 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:00,839 Speaker 1: so hard on this part and I literally am like 728 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,520 Speaker 1: twenty pounds different. And not that I give a shit 729 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,960 Speaker 1: about being twenty pounds different, but more for the consistency, 730 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,320 Speaker 1: more for the character. I just never wanted my work 731 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,360 Speaker 1: that the audience would be more concerned, like, wow, she 732 00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,360 Speaker 1: looks nothing like the scene that we just saw because 733 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:18,239 Speaker 1: they were going to be strung together. And I was like, shit, 734 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,319 Speaker 1: it's not like one episode I shot pre pregnancy and 735 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:23,480 Speaker 1: one postpregnan scenes Like I'm literally doing scenes back to 736 00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,319 Speaker 1: back where I am different. Thank God it was Lynn 737 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,960 Speaker 1: Paulo because she had been through my first pregnancy before 738 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:30,839 Speaker 1: on Scandal. She knows my body better than I do. 739 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,320 Speaker 1: And I have to say this, the power of women 740 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,880 Speaker 1: helping women in those situations bumps about it. Not that 741 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,319 Speaker 1: men aren't helpful, but just the fact that there's a 742 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:43,399 Speaker 1: shorthand there. It was really, really, really magical, and I'm 743 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:47,280 Speaker 1: so relieved honestly watching it back, like I like, fucking great. 744 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,120 Speaker 1: I was thrilled. I mean there was only one scene 745 00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:51,800 Speaker 1: out of all the scenes where I was like, whoa, 746 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,440 Speaker 1: then be some breastfeed and boobs. The rest of it, 747 00:41:55,560 --> 00:42:00,239 Speaker 1: I was like, ship, I can't really tell. It's why 748 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,319 Speaker 1: you're so happy when she calls and you're like, I'll 749 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:04,839 Speaker 1: play anything. I mean, not only because creatively you know 750 00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,520 Speaker 1: it's going to be amazing, but you're just so respected 751 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,520 Speaker 1: as a person. Well, there's a lot to like in 752 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:13,279 Speaker 1: the show, and I want to congratulate you on your 753 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:17,480 Speaker 1: amazing work. Thanks Stacy, and really every person we're speaking 754 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,680 Speaker 1: to for this podcast. It's just a miracle to get 755 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,640 Speaker 1: anything made, especially the last two years, and the show 756 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:28,960 Speaker 1: really is an accomplishment. So be very proud. Thank you, Stacy, 757 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening, everybody, and come back 758 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,080 Speaker 1: next week for the final episode of our series with 759 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:41,440 Speaker 1: Anna's real life attorney, Todd Spodeck. If you are the 760 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:43,840 Speaker 1: type of woman that it's coming to my office in 761 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:45,799 Speaker 1: a Saturday and you want me to believe you're a 762 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,560 Speaker 1: German heiress, I like that you kind of crazy, and 763 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,680 Speaker 1: I like crazy. We'll also discuss how Anna's Trial was 764 00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,560 Speaker 1: adapted for television with writer Matt Burne. My first impressions 765 00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:01,320 Speaker 1: were that Todd was completely like competent to be Frank 766 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,480 Speaker 1: really okay. I just didn't know this character well enough. 767 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:08,800 Speaker 1: It just felt completely insane to me. If you're enjoying 768 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,520 Speaker 1: this show, please subscribe, share with your friends, rate, or 769 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,319 Speaker 1: leave us a review. All of that good stuff. And 770 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,120 Speaker 1: if you haven't finished Shonda Lands Inventing Anna on Netflix, 771 00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,720 Speaker 1: please go do that. We really don't want to spoil 772 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:26,719 Speaker 1: it for you. Inventing Anna the Official Podcast is executive 773 00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:31,480 Speaker 1: produced by Sandy Bailey, Lauren Hohman, Tyler Clang, and Gabrielle Collins. 774 00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,759 Speaker 1: Our producer and editor is Nicholas Harder, and the show 775 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:50,680 Speaker 1: is produced and hosted by me Stacy Wilson Hunt. Inventing 776 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,480 Speaker 1: Anna the Official Podcast is a production of Shonda land 777 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:57,239 Speaker 1: Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts 778 00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:59,959 Speaker 1: from Shonda land Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app, 779 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,120 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.