1 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg p m L Podcast. I'm pim Fox. 2 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Abramowitz. Each day we 3 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for 4 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: you and your money, whether you're at the grocery store 5 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg p m L 6 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and Bloomberg dot Com. Joining 7 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: us now is Admiral James Stavridis. He is the retired 8 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: former military commander of NATO Diana, the Fletcher's School of 9 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: Diplomacy at Tufts University. Also a Bloomberg opinion columnist, Admiral 10 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 1: Stefridas a pleasure always to speak with you. What is 11 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: your reaction to the war of words on Twitter between 12 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: the United States and Iran? I think it's worrisome, pim um. 13 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: But let's take it from Pres Trump's perspective. First, he 14 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: sees um kind of an angry but actually fairly stereotypical 15 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: set of rhetoric coming out from Tehran. We've we've seen 16 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:16,199 Speaker 1: that kind of language from them repeatedly. And then he 17 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 1: launches this real screed, all in caps um. I can 18 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:25,479 Speaker 1: understand the emotion of the response, but I'll tell you, 19 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 1: you know, to put it in a movie context, we 20 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,320 Speaker 1: probably need less fast and furious and a little more 21 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: cool hand Luke, which is to say, slow down, analyze 22 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: and understand. We want to avoid getting in a war, 23 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: but we do want to change Iranian behavior. Um. Finding 24 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: that balance, I think it's going to be the challenge 25 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: going forward. Well, what do you recommend? What would be 26 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: the next thing to do? Given that the president seems 27 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: to well, I mean, if you want to, you don't 28 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: carry the cool hand Luke. Analogy further, Um, it's a 29 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: failure to communicate between the Iron and the United States. 30 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: What a nice point. Um. So I'd do five things, 31 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 1: I think, and I'll knock them off very quickly. One, 32 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: I would focus the intelligence community more dramatically, particularly in 33 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: the maritime zone. Secondly, I would increase our defensive posture 34 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: in the Middle East, because if this thing is gonna 35 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: go hot, we're gonna need to be ready. So that's 36 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: for example, missile defenses. Thirdly, I'd go out to our allies, 37 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: partners and friends in the region are Sunni partners and 38 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: our Israeli partners. Fourth, I'd go to NATO. I'd go 39 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: to the Europeans and try and work through our current 40 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: set of tensions there to get them on board. And 41 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,239 Speaker 1: fifth and finally, PIM, i'd get the inter agency more connected. 42 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: We need c I, a Department of Justice, Department of 43 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: Treasury working more closely together. UM. We need That's a 44 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 1: long way of saying we need a strategy g not 45 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: an angry Twitter burst. Do we have any evidence that 46 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: these strategies work? I think we do. UM. If we 47 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: look around the world. UM, our strategy worked very successfully 48 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: in Colombia in defeating an insurgency. It has worked very 49 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: well in the Balkans, bringing peace to a very troubled 50 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: region there. I think, uh. More contemporaneously, our strategy has 51 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: worked fairly well in Asia, keeping our allies working together 52 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: as we put pressure on North Korea. I commend the 53 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: administration for what's happening in North Korea, and I think 54 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: they took a strategic approach there. I hope they do 55 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: the same in Iran. You mentioned the Sunni allies Saudi Arabia. 56 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: What do you believe they want to have happened? They 57 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: have a very belligerent stance towards Iran. Broadly speaking, what 58 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: they want is Iran to withdraw from a variety of 59 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: Arab countries where they are pushing hard at Sunni populations. Iran, 60 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: of course leads the Shia bloc in the region, so 61 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: that is they would like to see Iran back out 62 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: of Syria, back out of Lebanon, back out of Yemen, 63 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: back out of trying to interfere with the kingdom itself. 64 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia reduce its ties with Guitar. 65 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: So they see Iran as an inspansionist imperial power. They 66 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: want to contain it, and under Crown Prince Muhammad bin Salomon, 67 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:32,919 Speaker 1: they will be very strong in doing so. You mentioned 68 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: the maritime zone, and I of course want to mention 69 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 1: your latest book entitled Seapower, The History and Geopolitics of 70 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: the World's Oceans. When you mentioned maritime power, don't you 71 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: have to think of what China wants to do. You 72 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: absolutely do. And let's reflect on the fact, Pim that 73 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: this region is parked almost dead center in the One Belt, 74 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 1: one Road UH strategy that is employing in the movement 75 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,359 Speaker 1: of raw materials from Africa and the Middle East to 76 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 1: them and the return flow of finished goods. So this 77 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 1: in my view would be an area in which attempting 78 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,919 Speaker 1: cooperation with China might prove fruitful. China does not have 79 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:21,919 Speaker 1: preconceived notions about its relationships with Iran, and it is 80 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 1: in China's interests and in the United States interest to 81 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: keep uh that maritime flow of goods going back and forth, 82 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: especially out of the Arabian Gulf. Who or what entity 83 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: inside of NATO do you believe will respond positively if 84 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: we want to improve that relationship to help in these 85 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 1: issues regarding the Middle East. You know, at the moment 86 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,160 Speaker 1: relations between the United States and the rest of our 87 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: NATO allies are quite low. Let's be honest, we had 88 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: a bad summit. Um, there was finger pointing both ways. UM. 89 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 1: I think the President is right to press on the 90 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: European allies to increase their defense spending. But I do 91 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 1: think that they have a point that Um, if they 92 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: are going to go forth and operate with the United 93 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: States around the world, they want to do that in 94 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: a spirit of cooperation, which didn't feel like it was 95 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: forthcoming at the summit in Brussels. So I think there's 96 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 1: some fence mending to do on both sides in terms 97 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: of who we're closest to, who can help us the most, 98 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 1: it would be the United Kingdom within the Alliance UM, 99 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: and we have to hope that we improve our relations, 100 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: particularly with Germany, which is a significant actor both within 101 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,720 Speaker 1: the EU and within NATO, and that relationship is in 102 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: bad shape right now. Well in that vain. The summit 103 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: in Brussels was followed by the summit in Helsinki. What 104 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: is your reaction, what is your analysis? Um, the summit 105 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: in Helsinki was a major misstep by the President of 106 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: the United States, and I think that's pretty well validated 107 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: across the political spectrum. The problem was UM less about 108 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: the fundamental idea of talking to Russia. I believe we should. 109 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: I think we should confront Russia where we must, but 110 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: cooperate wherever we can. We don't want to stumble back 111 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: into a Cold war. But the problem was the atmospherics, 112 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: the sense that our president was taking the side of 113 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin over the intelligence community, and I think above 114 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: all a kind of refusal to fully admit Russia's intrusion 115 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: into our election, which is a fundamental UM violation of 116 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: international law by Russia. So atmospherically didn't work, particularly coming 117 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: on the heels of the twelve indictments of Russian intelligence operatives. 118 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: The overall idea of working with Russia does make sense. 119 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: We've got to leave it there, Thank you very much. 120 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: Admiral James Stavridis, Dina the Fletcher School of Law and 121 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: Diplomacy and the author of Power, The History and Geopolitics 122 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: of the World's Oceans. Currency manipulation, the dollar, China, the 123 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: Federal Reserve all come into focus of Vincent Signerella, are 124 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: global macro strategist for Bloomberg News, joins us here in 125 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: studio to figure this all out. All right, Vincent, what 126 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: is going on with US officials talking down the dollar, 127 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: talking up the dollar? Who are we to believe? I 128 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: think you're gonna stick with Minuchin on this one. I 129 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: think Trump's just firing a couple off the off the 130 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: bow basically, just to get everyone a little nervous. He's 131 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: very upset with Germany. So when he says the Europeans, 132 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: he's really speaking about Germany. Uh, in terms of trade 133 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: with Germany, we have a big deficit. So he when 134 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: he's that all automobiles a big part of it as automobiles. 135 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: But at the same time, I mean, it's uh, it's 136 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 1: very specific machinery. Germany specializes in very high tech machinery, 137 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: especially in the surgical space, so we we do have 138 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,559 Speaker 1: this broad deficit with Germany. He throws the Europeans all 139 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: under the bus with it with the same stroke um, 140 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: but at the same time, the Euros eighteen it's not 141 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: doing anything. So I would look past any criticism of 142 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: Europe and realize that this is specifically aimed at China. 143 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: But is this is wait a second, but before we 144 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: get to China, is this bus going to get more expensive? 145 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: Which what do you mean the bus that if you 146 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: want to import an automobile from Germany, is that going 147 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: to get more expensive? My guess is at the end 148 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: of the day, we'll reach an accord, especially on autos 149 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: with the Europeans. It's a big business and he's getting 150 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: a lot of pressure from the United States manufacturers as well, 151 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: so I think they're gonna come together on that one. 152 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,079 Speaker 1: It's the same kind of squawking we hear about NAFTA. 153 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: Eventually NAFTA will come back around. To believe that will happen. 154 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: I believe it will happen. It's just going to take 155 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: a little bit of time and a little bit and 156 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 1: we're gonna see these gyrations in the market. Okay, because 157 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: we've got John Claude Junker. I believe he's tending the 158 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:21,559 Speaker 1: White House. This is going to be really he's kind 159 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:23,439 Speaker 1: of lost some credibility on the street, to be honest, 160 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: So it would be very interesting to see what he says. 161 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 1: We'll explain that. Well, he's gone off over the years 162 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: and in really odd, almost Trump like statements, so that 163 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: the markets have like sort of pulled back and and 164 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: and not reacted so much to what he's had to say. 165 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: We're not you know, if you if you look at 166 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:41,359 Speaker 1: it in the sense it's like who is he really representing? 167 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: He's going to the White House on Wednesday, all right. 168 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: The move to China, China on what I would like 169 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: to really really stress is this is not a currency war. 170 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: This is not China trying to devalue the currency and 171 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 1: take it back a few steps. When when Bernanke did 172 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: q E and we were accused and he was accused 173 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: of starting a currency war, what he was doing was 174 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: keeping interest rates low, flattening the curve because of worries 175 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: about the economy. China has some substantial worries about the economy, 176 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: They've seen increased corporate defalse. They had a massive liquidity 177 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: issue that they've just again once again did a big 178 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: medium term lending facility to add to this liquidity. Whenever 179 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: a central bank does a big add you see a 180 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: currency weaken, so that the China's you and by default, 181 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 1: is weakening. But it's not their aim to weaken the 182 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: currency to be a pain to Trump, although he will 183 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: point to that they're really pointing towards trying to to 184 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: STI is a domestic issue for them, purely a domestic issue, 185 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: purely liquidity issue, and it's a worry. I mean, if 186 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: if you're an emerging market investor, this is a big, 187 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 1: big worry. China's growth has been slowing and for them 188 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: to to put this much money into the system is 189 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: a is a real wake up call for emerging markets. 190 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: It should be UM. We've seen some appreciation and emerging 191 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: market currencies, but to my look, we have a lot 192 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: more to go if this becomes a major economic issue 193 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 1: for China. What is the Vincent Signarella chart tell you 194 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: about the future of EM currencies such as Brazil, Russia, India. 195 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: I think EM is gonna stay under the gun. I 196 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: think we're going to see Trump continue this pressure through 197 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: the midterm elections in November. This plays well to his 198 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: political base. Even if there's short term pain for US manufacturers, 199 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:32,839 Speaker 1: which is in this rust belt, in the place he's 200 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: trying to aim at. From a political standpoint, there's a 201 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: there's a great deal of long term support and a 202 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 1: great deal of play that he gets out of that. Um, 203 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: it doesn't have a lot else to hang his hat on, 204 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: you know, other than I mean he's got tax cuts 205 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 1: as well, So we may see another round of tax 206 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: cuts hit the US before November. But in and in 207 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 1: the end, that should keep the dollar a little bit alive. 208 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: It should see pressure in the UM. Do you look 209 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 1: at the price of copper? I do. What does the 210 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: price of copper which has been yeah, falling, un volatile 211 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: and following yes, what does that tell you about let's 212 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: say the economy of a place like Australia. Well, I 213 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: think what it says again, um, what's going on with 214 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: the China situation and how that impacts Australia and then 215 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: eventually obviously copper. If these are the the the base 216 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: metals that feed into production, and when you have the 217 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: the main buyer of those products stumbling a bit, then 218 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: the input to that main product stumbles, and that's what 219 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:34,959 Speaker 1: we've been seeing in copper, and we're also seeing any 220 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: Australian dollar. What's the biggest mistake that you see currency 221 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: traders make in an environment like this? Reacting to the 222 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 1: immediate news, we saw something hit the markets this morning 223 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:51,079 Speaker 1: about how Mexico's economy minister says we're going to aim 224 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: to get an after done by the end of August. 225 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: Paso strengthened immediately off of that, a couple of big 226 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: figures told news he actually said that yesterday. Um. And 227 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: then the piece of immediately weakens when everybody wakes up, 228 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: or actually I squawked it and said, by the way, 229 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: this is yesterday's news. Uh, and then it immediately turned around. 230 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: The odds of getting NAFTA done by August are really 231 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: really tight. And then the bigger picture is, even if 232 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: we get an agreement of sorts, needs to be ratified 233 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: by Congress, which at this point unlikely to get done 234 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: in two thousand and eighteen. So even if we had 235 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: a agreement at arms length, we still need to go 236 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: through the congressional process. Not happening this year, So reacting 237 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: to news like that is always going to come back 238 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: to buy two ten seconds. Tell people how they can 239 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: follow you on Squawk. If you have a Bloomberg terminal 240 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: and you're just type esquq, you you'll see a launch 241 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: bad come up for a Squawk go and what we'll 242 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: do is we will speak live breaking news. Uh down 243 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: your terminal. Thanks very much, Thank you, Vincent Signarella, Global 244 00:14:53,280 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: macro strategist for Bloomberg News. Well, one of Colorado's largest 245 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: recreational pot companies is planning to bring Willie Nelson's marijuana 246 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 1: brand to Canada and then go public in Toronto. Here 247 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: to tell us about raising capital in the cannabis industry 248 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: is Kevin Murphy. He's the chief executive of Acredge Holdings. 249 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: Kevin Murphy, thanks very much for being with us. Tell 250 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: us about Acreage Holdings and your capital raise and what 251 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: that tells you about the appetite that investors have for 252 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: the industry. Bamn and Lisa, thanks so much for having 253 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: me on the show. And uh. Acreage Holdings today is 254 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: the largest US cannabis provider UM now with thirteen states 255 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: and to be fifteen states. UM I'll our footprint covers 256 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty million people in this country, and 257 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: our goal is to raise enough capital to be an 258 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: aggregator into space. And this would be the last round 259 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: of financing that we will do before accessing the public 260 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: markets here in the fall. All right, before we get 261 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: to the public markets, Acreage owns cultivation, processing, and dispensary operations. Correct, 262 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: that is correct. We are vertically integrated in every state, 263 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: um or striving to be vertically integrated in in every state. 264 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: But you are absolutely correct. We control the entire um 265 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: the life cycle of the plant from seed to dispensary. 266 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: And on your advisory board you have former Massachusetts Governor 267 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: William Weld as well as former House Speaker John Bayner. 268 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: That is correct. We couldn't be more proud to have 269 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: those two gentlemen standing shoulder to shoulder with us at Acreage. 270 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: Why if you could raise a quarter billion dollars, two 271 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty million, why did you then just raise 272 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 1: a hundred nine million. Well, we had initially sit out 273 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: to raise fifty million dollars, but we had so much 274 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: enthusiasm for the raise that we ended up raising as 275 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: much as a hundred and nineteen million dollars, which is 276 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: the largest rays ever done in the United States for cannabis. 277 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: We also anticipate raising additional capital in the fall, and 278 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,679 Speaker 1: so we wanted to leave a little bit room in 279 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 1: order to do another financing this year. Now you intend 280 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: to launch on the Canadian Securities Exchange. Why in Canada, Well, 281 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: that is correct, and we go where every we are welcome, 282 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 1: and today the Canadians are with open arms welcoming us 283 00:17:53,520 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: um to the Canadian Exchange. In Canada, it is federally legal. Unfortunately, 284 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: in the United States, cannabis is still a Schedule one drug, 285 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: which is defined by having no medicinal value. Now that 286 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: would preclude us from being on the New York Stock 287 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: Exchange or the NASDAC, but we do hope soon to 288 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: be able to list on one or the other here 289 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: in the US. What kind of financial gain are let's say, 290 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: taxpayers missing out on by having the federal government still 291 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: regard cannabis as a Schedule one drug. This business, in 292 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 1: this industry is estimated to be by two thousand and 293 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:49,159 Speaker 1: twenty five one hundred billion dollars in size. Compared to 294 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: other consumables. It is a very very large marketplace. We 295 00:18:56,040 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 1: at acreage, advocate for a banking, we advocate to pay taxes, 296 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: and at the end of the day, I believe that 297 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: it could have a major impact on um this country's 298 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 1: opay crisis. We'd love to be taxed and have a 299 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 1: lot of those tax dollars go to reducing opiate use 300 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: in this country. That tax revenue is currently unavailable to 301 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: the federal government. What is holding this up the fact 302 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: that it's a Schedule one drug today again being defined 303 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: as having no additional value. And at the end, we 304 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: believe that this drug needs to be de scheduled. The 305 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,959 Speaker 1: majority of this country believes that cannabis should be legal, 306 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: and we're hopeful that Congress will essentially vote with their 307 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 1: constituents to make that a reality, and we believe it's 308 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: going to happen sooner than later. Just give you a 309 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: thirty seconds. Does it strike you as ironic that cigarettes 310 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: and alcohol are legally sold in the United States and 311 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 1: tax but cannabis isn't. Every industry goes through a change, 312 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 1: and we believe that the change is now for cannabis. 313 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: We've seen prohibition in this country with alcohol, and from 314 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: our vantage point, we are on the cusp of sea change. 315 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:32,360 Speaker 1: And with Speaker Banker being a naysayer historically and now 316 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: having the courage to change his mind, we believe others 317 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: will as well. And that's why we believe we're well 318 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 1: positioned to be a dominant force in the cannabis space 319 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: when it is federally illegal to us. It's not an if, 320 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 1: it's a matter of when. Kevin Murphy, Chief Executive Acreage Holdings. 321 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: They've raised nearly a hundred and twenty million dollars in 322 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: their latest financing round, with plans to go public at 323 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 1: the of the year in Canada. This is Bloomberg Markets. 324 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: I'm pim Fox. My next guest knows all about the 325 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: modern economy in a world where everything can be copied. 326 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: In other words, control C control V. We all know 327 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: about it, but how do you deal with it? He 328 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: is Howard You. He is the legal Professor of Management 329 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: and Innovation at the I M d School of Business 330 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: in Switzerland, and his new book is called Leap How 331 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: to Thrive in a World where Everything can be Copied? 332 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,199 Speaker 1: How are you? Thank you very much for being with us. 333 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: Maybe you could just start off by telling us a 334 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: little bit about why you decided to write this book. 335 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 1: In many ways. The book concept really came from my 336 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: conversation of executive and manager home I had run conferences 337 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 1: and workshop and one of the key topic, or one 338 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 1: of the biggest complaint they always have. They would say, 339 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: my product is getting commoditized, meaning they find it very, 340 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: very hard to differentiate in marketplace. They subject to all 341 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: kinds of pricing pressure, and whenever they launch or introduce 342 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: a new type of innovation, those product features get copy overnight, 343 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 1: and so that becomes the crux or the thrust for 344 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: me to dive into this inquiry. Now, as you decided 345 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: that this was a focus of attention, did you notice 346 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: that this is an issue that had been going on 347 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: for a very long time. I mean, we may think 348 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,919 Speaker 1: that this is just something to do with technology, but 349 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: you know, you go back even to let's say the 350 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: founding of the United States and and the industrialization of 351 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,440 Speaker 1: the United States. UH, factories in the U S were 352 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: copying European goods even then. Absolutely, I thought that's pretty 353 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 1: much a contemper phenomena. But as I died dig into 354 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 1: the historical past, it turns out things getting copy was 355 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 1: a repeated complaint across era, across industry, across continent as well. 356 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 1: In fact, once a point in time in Switzerland there 357 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 1: is no pattern law for chemistry or chemical product. So 358 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: in the land of counterfeat the Swiss were basically copying 359 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: the German to produce drugs, and that had historically two 360 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 1: years ago the biggest complained by the German drug manufacturer. Well, 361 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,640 Speaker 1: let's talk about leap and what did you discover? How 362 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 1: can companies deal with copying in an age where it 363 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 1: is as simple as a control C movement on the keyboard. Yeah, 364 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 1: in many ways, executive always dream about building up a 365 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:54,719 Speaker 1: competitive possessioning that they could stay away from global competition. 366 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: That turned out to be pretty much a mirage. In 367 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 1: many ways, competition is almost like mountaineering. So the pioneering 368 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,639 Speaker 1: company would try to reach the mountain peak and the 369 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: lake comer would also try to reach the same altitude. Now, 370 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: when the knowledge underpinning the industry stays tgnate, the lake 371 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 1: comers sooner or later would reach the same height. No 372 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: value proposition can stay unique forever. No blue ocean can 373 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 1: stay blue forever. Eventually blue ocean turn red. What I 374 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: discover is pioneering company can play a different game. They 375 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: can leap from one knowledge discipline to the next and 376 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,239 Speaker 1: then the next. And when the underlying knowledge of an 377 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: industry continued continue to leap forward. Then climbing the mountain 378 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 1: is as if there's constant mudslide pushing everyone down. In 379 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: that scenario, it turns out it's the most experience, the 380 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 1: most pioneering company stand a better chance to stay on 381 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: top of competition. Can you give us some examples of 382 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: companies that are able to do this? Sure? Um. One 383 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,479 Speaker 1: of the prime examples I use in the book is 384 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,919 Speaker 1: the pharmaceutical industry I briefly mentioned earlier. So it turns 385 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: out in the beginning of the pharmaceutical industry two years ago, 386 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 1: everyone come up with new drugs based on organic chemistry. 387 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: The first blockbuster in the world is in fact called 388 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: ant hip hiring is a fever reducing drugs, and it 389 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 1: is this chemist making chemical die for the textile industry 390 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 1: discovered this municipal medicinal benefit to to solve human issues. 391 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: Now you might remember after people talk about Alexander Flaming 392 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: who discover peninsillin the first an hipolytics roughly around the 393 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: Second World War. So after the Second World War, all 394 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 1: the pharmaceutical industry moved from the study of chemistry to microbiology. 395 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,919 Speaker 1: They want to find out the more potent fungus, to 396 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: find out the next pay dirt, to find out the 397 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,119 Speaker 1: more potent ant hibiotics. So the knowledge discipline really moved 398 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,880 Speaker 1: from organic cam street to the study of microbiology. Today 399 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: it's all about genomics and DNA and genetics. So looking 400 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: back to the long history of pharmaceutical industry, the salient 401 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: features of this particular sector is the leaping of knowledge 402 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: from one to the next, from organic chemistry to microbiology 403 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: to genomics. But that doesn't that beg the question that 404 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: you need to have confidence in order to do that, 405 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: because if you don't have the confidence, you're gonna try 406 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: to build a bigger moat around your mountains so that 407 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: no one even gets the climb on top of it. 408 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 1: How do you help build that confidence? Yeah, this is 409 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: a tricky question because on the verge of leaping from 410 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: the old knowledge to the next, oftentimes those require investment. 411 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: Is very very hard to pinpoint through the traditional financial 412 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: and analysis. I give you a concrete example on the 413 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: virtue of launching the targeted cancer drugs called Clevick by novartists. 414 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:02,439 Speaker 1: At the time, this CEO was facing a paradox in 415 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: many ways. This new targeted drugs solving a rare form 416 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: of leukemia cancer called CML. The target market is relatively small, 417 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 1: so all the executives around him basically said we should 418 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:18,679 Speaker 1: allocate the corporate resources to more larger diseased class like 419 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 1: prostic cancer, breast cancer and so on. But the CEO 420 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: at the time, Daniel Vanzella, when he reviewed back the 421 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 1: early clinical trial, he thought, it's not so much about 422 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: increase of revenue, but it really pioneering of a new 423 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: way for drug discovery using genomics. No how and he 424 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,919 Speaker 1: basically told the team money doesn't matter. We have to 425 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 1: move ahead. So every time when I look back to 426 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: historical analysis that companies successfully leap from one knowledge to 427 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: the next, there is certain top down intervention has to happen, 428 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: going beyond the traditional financial analysis that we all know 429 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: very well. That was Howard you. He is Lego Professor 430 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: of Management and Innovation at the I M d School 431 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 1: of Business in Switzerland. His new book is entitled Leap 432 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: How to Thrive in a world where everything can be copied. 433 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 1: And to just give some more uh well pertinent information 434 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 1: related to this, you know, the food and us Food 435 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,879 Speaker 1: and Drug Administration. Just last week it announced what it 436 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 1: called something called the bio Similars Action Plan, and the 437 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,159 Speaker 1: idea is to improve the efficiency of the biosimilar and 438 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: interchangeable product development and approval process, basically making it the 439 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 1: easier and uh faster for companies to create biosimilar drugs. 440 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: And already we know that about a dozen approvals for 441 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: bio similars have made it through the f d A, 442 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: and they have started this effort to accelerate the development 443 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: and adoption of these particular drugs. Thanks for listening to 444 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg P and L podcast. You can subscribe and 445 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whatever podcast 446 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: platform you prefer. I'm pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at 447 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at Lisa Abramo. It's one 448 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: before the podcast. You can always catch us worldwide on 449 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio.