Speaker 1: The following is a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. This is the Dallas
Speaker 1: Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, your war room for incenter
Speaker 1: news and drafted analysis. Dallas Smith running back from Florida. Indianapolis, Indiana,
Speaker 1: where the twenty twenty nat BEL Scouting Combine rolls on.
Speaker 1: With a thin wedding cake, white layer of snow outside
Speaker 1: we are indoors Indiana or Indiana Convention Center here in Indianapolis,
Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, Day two of
Speaker 1: the scouting Combine. Dave Hellman back with Dane Brugler. You
Speaker 1: could be a sky Yeomans, you could be a scout
Speaker 1: with that type of serious descriptive words. A wedding cake,
Speaker 1: wedding cake, thin, white. Yeah, Bob Buker, that's what I'm
Speaker 1: calling you from now. Well, actually that's Vin Scully. Vin
Speaker 1: Scully used to say that kind of stuff. So but yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll take Bob Uker. That works. But we are back
Speaker 1: here from Radio Row and Plenty to talk about, of course,
Speaker 1: Mark McCarthy talking yesterday. We talked to a couple of
Speaker 1: the defensive lineman today as a part of the media
Speaker 1: sessions but a lot going on here this second day
Speaker 1: of shows. It's really the third day we've been here
Speaker 1: here at the scouting Combine. But first off, let's let's
Speaker 1: go and start with some of those defensive linemen. And
Speaker 1: we've had a lot of conversation about that because it's
Speaker 1: a position of need for the Dallas Cowboys so far,
Speaker 1: and really getting into it quickly, what were some of
Speaker 1: the things that stood out to you guys today, Dan,
Speaker 1: We'll start with you that Thank god the Raiders informed
Speaker 1: Ross Blacklock that has thirty seven unpaid party tickets, right,
Speaker 1: you know, that was good. I would have liked to
Speaker 1: see his face during that interview when he found that out.
Speaker 1: You know, Chase Young had some interesting things to say. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, we knew he wasn't working out here, but
Speaker 1: we found out at his pro day he's not gonna
Speaker 1: be doing any of the agility stuff forty yard dash
Speaker 1: and and he said it point blank, like, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not I don't need to. I'm not gonna waste
Speaker 1: my time training to be a combine athlete. I Am
Speaker 1: going to train to be a better football player. And
Speaker 1: now it's a little different for Chase Young. He has
Speaker 1: the leverage to say something like that he knows he's
Speaker 1: gonna be a top three pick. But it was just
Speaker 1: it was really interesting perspective to hear that from him,
Speaker 1: because you know, he's, you know, he's not gonna do
Speaker 1: what the norm is and what he's expected it's expected
Speaker 1: of him. He's gonna do what he thinks is best
Speaker 1: for him. And that that was a really kind of
Speaker 1: part partly refreshing take from from Chase Young. Can we
Speaker 1: talk about that, actually, yeah, because and it's actually it's
Speaker 1: some somebody asked us about it on Twitter two. But
Speaker 1: it seems like more of a trend than ever before
Speaker 1: this year, Like it was only two years ago that
Speaker 1: Myles Garrett just put on an absolute show here, even
Speaker 1: though we got here knowing he would be the number
Speaker 1: one pick. And now from the top down, like from
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow to Chase and there's half a dozen other
Speaker 1: guys that are just like, now, I don't need to
Speaker 1: do this and I'm not going to And I feel
Speaker 1: like that is it's a new I don't want to
Speaker 1: call it a trend, but it feels like it's more
Speaker 1: prevalent than ever before. We've seen it with quarterbacks, you know,
Speaker 1: especially that position, who feel a little I mean because
Speaker 1: it's it is tough. And what are you going to
Speaker 1: learn from Joe Burrow that you didn't learn in the
Speaker 1: fifteen games we saw this year? You know, what are
Speaker 1: you gonna see in this setting where he's throwing the
Speaker 1: football to guys He's never thrown too without any pressure
Speaker 1: at pressure meaning from you know, a defense out there.
Speaker 1: So what were we gonna necessarily learn from that that
Speaker 1: we don't already know about him? So I certainly understand
Speaker 1: some of these guys, and it'll be Look, the combine
Speaker 1: continues to evolve, and you know, this year it's primetime
Speaker 1: and things are changing, and you know, I think it's
Speaker 1: going to continue to change, not only with timing and
Speaker 1: the you know, the ability for fans to access the
Speaker 1: all this information, but also the drills. And you know,
Speaker 1: the bench press is it's got an expiration date on
Speaker 1: it in three years. I would bet we're not doing
Speaker 1: the bench press anymore because there's no you know, teams
Speaker 1: don't find any value in it. It tells you who
Speaker 1: works out in the weight room. It doesn't really tell
Speaker 1: you functional football strength. Um, you know, so there's there's
Speaker 1: there's plenty of value to be had with all the
Speaker 1: drills that we're gonna start saying tonight, um with what
Speaker 1: is it the tight ends, receivers, quarterbacks tonight Yes, Um,
Speaker 1: So we're gonna see there's there's still plenty of value
Speaker 1: to get out of this, especially historical purposes. You know,
Speaker 1: you can you know, a guy runs a four or five? Okay,
Speaker 1: what's that mean? You know, how does that compare to
Speaker 1: other guys? Um? You know that's position or with his
Speaker 1: size and um, you know, what do we expect coming
Speaker 1: in from a player like that that jumps the different
Speaker 1: positional specific You know, the gauntlets one of my favorite
Speaker 1: on field drills, and this year they're attaching a time
Speaker 1: to it, which is a little more competitive, right is
Speaker 1: that you think that's more for viewers or for like
Speaker 1: the competitive uses of the DBS. I think it's kind
Speaker 1: of both because we've seen these guys. You know, one
Speaker 1: of the things when you go through the gauntlet, you're
Speaker 1: supposed to be you know, near full speed, and so
Speaker 1: you constantly here coaches saying go, go go because a
Speaker 1: lot of guys will slow play it to you know,
Speaker 1: make sure they catch the football and you know, and
Speaker 1: don't have any drops, But if you're slow playing it,
Speaker 1: that's something you know evaluators are paying attention to, So
Speaker 1: attaching a time to it and having these guys go
Speaker 1: full speed making a little competition out of it, no question,
Speaker 1: I think gets driven by viewership and fans interest, but
Speaker 1: I think it also could help from the evaluation standpoint
Speaker 1: as well well. And it kind of goes back to
Speaker 1: what we had a conversation about last week, was with
Speaker 1: this becoming more of a spectator friendly event, if it
Speaker 1: being almost a moneymaker for the NFL, how long does
Speaker 1: it take until these players start saying, hey, if we're
Speaker 1: not making any money off of this is if this
Speaker 1: is going to continue in this trend, then we're going
Speaker 1: to start backing off a little bit. Because it's supposed
Speaker 1: to be informational, it's supposed to be setting you up
Speaker 1: for success come the NFL Draft, Well, sometimes that might
Speaker 1: not be the case, at least in this day and age.
Speaker 1: Even though you have a chance to prove yourself, that
Speaker 1: may not be the priority for the league itself. Now,
Speaker 1: with that being said, there's guys like Chase Young saying, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to end up doing these workouts. But
Speaker 1: we also talk to a couple of guys today, most
Speaker 1: notably Isaiah Simmons from Clemson, the linebacker who ended up saying,
Speaker 1: I am going to do all the drills, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: run everything, and this is going to be really interesting
Speaker 1: to go through. And you can see both sides of
Speaker 1: it's trull and we're kind of in that transition period.
Speaker 1: That's why I think, Dave you said, you don't necessarily
Speaker 1: want to call it a trend, Yeah, but it's something
Speaker 1: to kind of keep your eye on over the next
Speaker 1: couple of years. It just seems like guys, and you know,
Speaker 1: there's three hundred and thirty seven guys here, and as
Speaker 1: Dane will tell you, a shocking number of them aren't
Speaker 1: even going to be drafted. Yeah, probably probably about one
Speaker 1: hundred and ten. Good, that's crazy. But the guys at
Speaker 1: the top of this thing, I feel like have more
Speaker 1: leverage than ever before and a better understanding of what
Speaker 1: is important, you know, like, yeah, you know, it's not
Speaker 1: that long ago that like the bench was seen as important,
Speaker 1: at least from an outsider's perspective, and these days it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, I need a good three cone and I
Speaker 1: need to do well at the shuttle and the rest
Speaker 1: of this is stupid. So I'm going to focus on
Speaker 1: my pro day and I don't need y'all well. And
Speaker 1: it's almost like the NFL's their their eyes are getting
Speaker 1: bigger than their stomachs with this because the more that they,
Speaker 1: you know, put an emphasis on viewership and fan involvement,
Speaker 1: and which is great for the fans, Like I don't
Speaker 1: want to, you know, kind of disrespect that part of it.
Speaker 1: It's it's great that you know, people that work during
Speaker 1: the day who are never able to watch the combine
Speaker 1: before they'll be able to watch it in prime time
Speaker 1: with everybody else. And so I don't want to just
Speaker 1: disregard that part of it. It's great for fans, But
Speaker 1: from an evaluation standpoint, the more things change, that's going
Speaker 1: to evolve and have some other effects. Like, for example,
Speaker 1: it's all about viewership. So if I'm Joe Burrow, okay,
Speaker 1: you pay me, give me a twenty thousand dollar bonus
Speaker 1: and I'll work out here, you know, I mean, it's
Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna get to that point because what the
Speaker 1: viewership is going to be different, the ratings will be different.
Speaker 1: If Joe Burrow is throwing compared to Joe Burrow is
Speaker 1: not throwing, and so it's safety would Chase Young, some
Speaker 1: of these guys will have the leverage and we're going
Speaker 1: to get to that point where're you know, not everybody,
Speaker 1: but there will be certain players that might get a
Speaker 1: little bit of a bonus for working out here. You know,
Speaker 1: you look at the top three names in the draft,
Speaker 1: arguably two U Joe Burrow, Chase Young. None of them
Speaker 1: were throwing or working out as a part of the
Speaker 1: combine process. But along with the combine gets an opportunity
Speaker 1: here in the off season to kind of have those
Speaker 1: conversations not only with players, but also with staff members
Speaker 1: and coaching staffs. And yesterday Mike McCarthy got a chance
Speaker 1: to catch up with the media for the first time
Speaker 1: in a couple of weeks. And Dave you you tweeted
Speaker 1: this quote out yesterday. Oh yeah, I did. Oh, And
Speaker 1: this is going to be fun to talk about. I
Speaker 1: know where you're going because over the years, of course
Speaker 1: draft nuts and Cowboys fans alike have had the frustrations
Speaker 1: about scheme fits and certain players not being scheme fits. Well,
Speaker 1: yesterday Mike McCarthy came out and said, I've always felt that,
Speaker 1: and really part of it developed because in Green Bay,
Speaker 1: when you're picking twenty six, twenty seven, twenty eight, when
Speaker 1: you're down there in the twenties every year, when you're
Speaker 1: throwing away good players because they don't fit your system,
Speaker 1: you've got to take a hard look at your system.
Speaker 1: If a guy is a good football player, that guy
Speaker 1: can play for me. What does that mean? Just a
Speaker 1: little bit of music to your ears? Which beautiful, a
Speaker 1: genuine that see there, And I'm glad that you're the
Speaker 1: buzz killing instead of because I mean you you you
Speaker 1: gotta take it at face value. But actions speak louder
Speaker 1: than words like I gotta see it. But it is
Speaker 1: such an encouraging quote when you think about the things
Speaker 1: that have frustrated us about the draft process in recent years,
Speaker 1: like scheme fit is the phrase that gets thrown around
Speaker 1: when the Cowboys weren't interested in Tyron Matthew, not when
Speaker 1: he was seeking big money when he landed with the Chiefs,
Speaker 1: but when all he wanted was a one year, proved deal.
Speaker 1: He wasn't a scheme fit, which will never make sense
Speaker 1: for the rest of my life. It's why you're not
Speaker 1: you're looking at taco Charlton instead of TJ wacause can
Speaker 1: you put his hand on the ground, which we don't
Speaker 1: have to get into it, saying, you know, Tristan Hill
Speaker 1: is like, well, this this scheme calls for pressure from
Speaker 1: the defensive tackle position, and even though he's not as
Speaker 1: good of a player as want Thornhill, that's what we need.
Speaker 1: And you know, not to throw too much shade, but
Speaker 1: the way we understand it, and and everybody gets blamed
Speaker 1: when a pick goes bad, Don't get me wrong. Will
Speaker 1: McClay has said that time and time again. You know
Speaker 1: that comes with the dinner. But the previous coaching staff
Speaker 1: had such a heavy hand in that process every year,
Speaker 1: right like every year around late March early April, you
Speaker 1: start to hear a narrative change when the coaches really
Speaker 1: sit down and start visiting with these guys. Who's like, yep, okay,
Speaker 1: the coaches are involved and we're going off the rails
Speaker 1: from what we've been saying. And so does that mean
Speaker 1: Mike McCarthy's just going to be this wild man like
Speaker 1: BPA no matter what best player available. I doubt it.
Speaker 1: But it's an encouraging quote because I think everybody thinks
Speaker 1: and I agree that it was a flaw of this
Speaker 1: previous coaching staff and Mike he should have a voice.
Speaker 1: He deserves to have a voice. But if he's willing
Speaker 1: to really apply that logic when draft time comes, then
Speaker 1: the Cowboys will make better decisions because of it. I think. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you even look at too much of a good
Speaker 1: thing is not a or it could be a bad thing.
Speaker 1: You got to take everything in moderation. And actually that
Speaker 1: I cut part of the quote off because it was
Speaker 1: a I mean, he talked for five minutes a little
Speaker 1: bit about him. He's like, let's you know, let's not
Speaker 1: get carried away like measurables still matter. We're still you know,
Speaker 1: we have profiles on players we like, like we're not
Speaker 1: getting crazy, like you know, we're not going willy nilly.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, if the guy's good, then
Speaker 1: find a use for him, Like don't come to me
Speaker 1: about like, well, he doesn't do exactly what we have
Speaker 1: to do, so I can't draft him. Get the hell
Speaker 1: out of here. And it's also something you can look
Speaker 1: at in free agency doesn't normally have to be specifically
Speaker 1: defined to the draft, but this is where Dana I'd
Speaker 1: like to get your opinion on this, because it's not
Speaker 1: just the Cowboys that have had that scheme issue fit
Speaker 1: issue kind of problem in the past. What are some
Speaker 1: guys this year that could potentially fit into schemes elsewhere
Speaker 1: that the Cowboys may not be specifically honed in on.
Speaker 1: You know, it's tough because when we have a new
Speaker 1: coaching staff, we're still trying to feel them out and
Speaker 1: understand what they're gonna be looking for for this specific scheme.
Speaker 1: But you know, yeah, every year, I think, you know,
Speaker 1: we need to focus on not what they can't do,
Speaker 1: but what can they do? Yeah, and really focus on
Speaker 1: that part of it, because, Okay, you know a guy
Speaker 1: that might be limited in some areas, how does he
Speaker 1: help us? How can he you know, what are his strengths?
Speaker 1: How can we use that on our football team? Does
Speaker 1: it make us a better football team that's going to
Speaker 1: help lead to more wins? And you know, a guy
Speaker 1: like a g Epanessa, who you know we mentioned before,
Speaker 1: he's not that quick twitch, just blow by tackles, but
Speaker 1: he's just different. And so you know, if you really
Speaker 1: want that that that quick twitch, that von Miller style,
Speaker 1: not von Miller talent, but von Miller style with how
Speaker 1: they rushed a passer. Then okay, take Calaivion Chase on
Speaker 1: and but understand that he has his limitations too in
Speaker 1: other ways, but just take the best football player and
Speaker 1: you know it's I think some teams that are looking for, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, length at cornerback. Um. You know, it's where
Speaker 1: not every team places the same premium. I think the
Speaker 1: previous coaching staff, you know, was a it was a
Speaker 1: length at corner and defensive back really mattered more than
Speaker 1: a lot of other things. With this coaching staff, I'm
Speaker 1: sure it's still what they prefer, but is it going
Speaker 1: to be the same. You know, George Lewis, we're going
Speaker 1: to see from him this year with the new coaching staff.
Speaker 1: So I think a lot of things we're still feeling out,
Speaker 1: both with the current guys on the roster, both with
Speaker 1: you know, because a lot of the guys on the
Speaker 1: current roster, these coaches didn't draft them, you know, they
Speaker 1: they're inherited these guys and so figuring them out how
Speaker 1: they fit best within the scheme that they're going to implement.
Speaker 1: And then in this draft, how in what direction are
Speaker 1: they going to go with these prospects which you know,
Speaker 1: like I said, it was a long quote, and when
Speaker 1: you're having a free flowing conversation, it can get a
Speaker 1: little bit convoluted. It doesn't lend itself well to a SoundBite. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but McCarthy, I mean, he brought pass rusher into the equation.
Speaker 1: And again it's a really encouraging quote because he said,
Speaker 1: everybody want to talk about it, like, like you can
Speaker 1: you have to pigeonhole guys into these roles. He said,
Speaker 1: you know, is he an open side end? Is he
Speaker 1: a traditional defensive end? Is he an outside linebackers? He
Speaker 1: a DPR, a designated pass rusher. He's basically like, I
Speaker 1: don't care, Like at the end of the day, I
Speaker 1: want six outside rushers and four inside defensive lineman and
Speaker 1: I want like the best guys possible. And if you're
Speaker 1: you know, if you're a draft nick and you want
Speaker 1: the Cowboys to draft the best guy possible, that sounds
Speaker 1: like music to your ears, because that quote leads me
Speaker 1: to believe that it's at least possible that the Cowboys
Speaker 1: would have drafted t J. Watt under this regime. You know,
Speaker 1: not again not to pick it old wounds about to
Speaker 1: turn that night. If you're going if you're going off
Speaker 1: of ability over you know, can you fit into what
Speaker 1: we have in mind? I think you're gonna wind up
Speaker 1: with better players more often than not. Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: so interesting in the way that you can kind of
Speaker 1: look at maybe just the mindsets shift. It's it's honestly
Speaker 1: odd covering the Cowboys thinking that way now and time
Speaker 1: in a decade. It opens things up, It really does,
Speaker 1: because you can't look at a guy like AJP and
Speaker 1: s and say, oh, he's not exactly a fit, so
Speaker 1: we should probably go ahead and cross them off our board.
Speaker 1: It's what I've been joking. I've been joking about it
Speaker 1: at about the tight end spot since the draft process started,
Speaker 1: where I'm like, if Jason Garrett was still the coach
Speaker 1: of the Cowboys, I could run down the whole list
Speaker 1: of tight end prospects and cross out about eighteen of them.
Speaker 1: Eighteen of the best ones, by the way, Yeah, because
Speaker 1: they're not boxy, you know, big framed guys with blocking
Speaker 1: history like that was what the Cowboys wanted under the
Speaker 1: old regime, and Mike McCarthy might want that too. But
Speaker 1: you can't just write it in stone the way that
Speaker 1: we used to be able to, which is exciting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it opens up so many possibilities, and with those possibilities
Speaker 1: comes some scenarios. And Dane, I'm gonna put you on
Speaker 1: the spot here, Okay, give me a prospect at seventeen
Speaker 1: that would be a surprise bold seventeen, like surprise that
Speaker 1: somebody would be there, or surprised that the Cowboys would
Speaker 1: take him, surprise that the Cowboys would take Ye give
Speaker 1: me that, because I'm gonna say, I think we've covered
Speaker 1: most of the like overly realistic option what could end
Speaker 1: up being there at seventeen? But who would surprise you
Speaker 1: that the Cowboys could take any chance they'd go out,
Speaker 1: Like saying Andrew Thomas Tackle from Georgia, I said that,
Speaker 1: See I said that two weeks ago, and like which
Speaker 1: I'm I'm just glad we're on the same page. I'm
Speaker 1: always happy when Day agrees with me. Well, I mean
Speaker 1: that's something I name I havn't heard connected with the Cowboys.
Speaker 1: And obviously it's not need areat number one on this roster.
Speaker 1: But you look at tyro and how many even more
Speaker 1: years does he have you look at you know Collins
Speaker 1: on the right side. Um, you know there's some uncertainty there,
Speaker 1: you know, could you kick him inside? Is he you know,
Speaker 1: contract situation, all that thing, everything that's involved with that.
Speaker 1: At what point do you maybe look at it and say,
Speaker 1: you know, the depth that we could really have on
Speaker 1: the offensive line by adding a talent like that, that's
Speaker 1: just too good to pass up. That that would be
Speaker 1: one of those shockers that I think would be um
Speaker 1: not it would be very unexpected, But when you really
Speaker 1: think about it, you could say, Okay, you know, I
Speaker 1: can buy that six five, three twenty out of Georgia
Speaker 1: offensive tackle plus arms. It would be It would be
Speaker 1: the ultimate test of BPA because of the tackle class
Speaker 1: is top heavy. The Cowboys have two really good tackles, Yeah,
Speaker 1: one of whom has had you know, actually both of
Speaker 1: whom have had pretty lengthy injury issues over the last
Speaker 1: few years. Yeah, swing tackles not one hundred percent settled,
Speaker 1: So you don't necessarily need the guy to start, But
Speaker 1: can you really justify spinning a top twenty pick on that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it would be the ultimate test of BPA, and I
Speaker 1: haven't heard it called BPA, So I'm glad you said
Speaker 1: that because it's better than saying best player available. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you're listening to the draft show, I trust that
Speaker 1: you can say you can pick up on it. But okay,
Speaker 1: so you're you're taking a surprise offensive tackles. Use the demand,
Speaker 1: we use the demand for an offensive tackle to turn
Speaker 1: that into about three more picks and trade back six spots,
Speaker 1: which that strikes me fancy. Yeah, probably the more realistic
Speaker 1: scenario if we're gonna be honest and you know it's
Speaker 1: they're gonna be in an interesting spot because I don't
Speaker 1: you know whether that's a defensive lineman, end or tackle,
Speaker 1: whether it's in the secondary, corner or safety. Um, there's
Speaker 1: just so many different directions they could go. And again
Speaker 1: we we we've harped on this a lot, but with
Speaker 1: the new coaching staff, we just don't know what those
Speaker 1: coaches are gonna be because we know this for an office,
Speaker 1: you know, history tells us they will listen to the
Speaker 1: coaches and draft who they want, who who they think
Speaker 1: is gonna make them a better football player. Um, I mean,
Speaker 1: you really think they have to go Not only would
Speaker 1: an offensive lineman be a surprise, but also I think
Speaker 1: just going to offense seems like a little bit of
Speaker 1: a surprise. Because this team has so many holes on defense,
Speaker 1: uh more, so they're gonna have more holes this offseason
Speaker 1: than they even did last year with losing some guys.
Speaker 1: So you know what, are they gonna be pushed to
Speaker 1: go corner? Are they gonna You just don't want to
Speaker 1: be forced to go in a specific direction. You want
Speaker 1: to keep it open and see who falls, do you
Speaker 1: especially in this class where we're gonna see we could
Speaker 1: have five tack was going to top sixteen picks. We're
Speaker 1: going to see some of these receivers off the board
Speaker 1: with Rugs and Judy and Lamb, So you know they
Speaker 1: could push this. Does a kin Law get to us seventeen?
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe I don't think talent wise he's
Speaker 1: a seventeenth best player. I think he's a top fifteen player.
Speaker 1: But you just never know. With all the positions, I
Speaker 1: could go in front of them. I'll tell you this,
Speaker 1: which you know, I was super interesting talking to Mike McCarthy.
Speaker 1: I keep saying this, it's a it's a little note.
Speaker 1: But if there was like one thing that really jumped
Speaker 1: off the page to me yesterday, Mike McCarthy took a
Speaker 1: shotgun and just put a big hole in my dream
Speaker 1: of drafting a wide receiver because he listened to him yesterday.
Speaker 1: He loves Randall Cobb. Not that I'm surprised, and worked
Speaker 1: with him in Green Bay. Cobb's obviously a hell of
Speaker 1: a player, but he brought him up by name two
Speaker 1: or three times yesterday, and I'm just sitting there, like,
Speaker 1: this guy really wants to bring Randall Cobb back. And
Speaker 1: if they do that, not that you can't, but it
Speaker 1: becomes a little harder to justify spending a big pick
Speaker 1: on a receiver. Well, there's plenty of room over on
Speaker 1: this side the disappointment bandwagon of not having a wide
Speaker 1: receiver because it's fun. I'm up if they signed Cobb,
Speaker 1: it'd only be to like a one year deal. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I'm giving up on a first or second day wide receiver.
Speaker 1: I don't think D three is out of the question.
Speaker 1: I'm giving up on seventeen. I'm clinging to fifty one,
Speaker 1: hoping that fifty one and maybe the third round show
Speaker 1: is that dependent on the Mark Cooper situation. I mean
Speaker 1: I were I mean, if we want to dive into
Speaker 1: the nitty gritty of this, I mean I would do
Speaker 1: it regardless unless Cooper signs a long term extension. I
Speaker 1: would do it regardless, because that would give you the
Speaker 1: flexibility to let him go if you tag him. I
Speaker 1: just I could write a dissertation on this if you
Speaker 1: want them to. You probably could. It wouldn't take you
Speaker 1: very long to do so. But one thing out of
Speaker 1: this entire segment that I know Cowboys fans are happy
Speaker 1: about is that Dane did say maybe Javon Kinlaw could
Speaker 1: fall to them at seventeen as well, So we may
Speaker 1: talk about a little bit more of the defensive lineman
Speaker 1: as well as we go throughout the show. We're just
Speaker 1: getting started here from Indianapolis. When we come back Twitter
Speaker 1: on the twenty here from Radio Row at the twenty
Speaker 1: twenty NFL Scouting Combine, we'll be back at a moment
Speaker 1: here on Dallas Cowboys dot Com. I'm Jay Novachik, former
Speaker 1: tight end for the Dallas Cowboys. Back in the day,
Speaker 1: I was the guy who always got the tough yards,
Speaker 1: and that's why I run with John Deer today. In fact,
Speaker 1: I have a John Deer three zero twenty five E
Speaker 1: tractor that can handle any yardwork I need to do,
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Speaker 1: dollars down based on GWS one score. September twenty nineteen.
Speaker 1: This is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, and
Speaker 1: no your hosts, David Hellman and Kyle Yeoman's. Like I
Speaker 1: tell people all the time, I'm a young dude. I'm
Speaker 1: twenty one years old, but I'm not your average twenty
Speaker 1: one year old. UM. I carried myself um differently than
Speaker 1: other guys. I don't put myself out there like that.
Speaker 1: I'm strictly business um because at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: all this is a business. Um. Either NFL you ain't
Speaker 1: and if you ain't any you're gonna get put out.
Speaker 1: Defensive tackle out of TCU Ross Blacklock, bringing us back
Speaker 1: into segment two here from Radio Row in the twenty
Speaker 1: twenty NFL Scouting combine, David Hellman, Dame Brugally, Kyle Yeoman's
Speaker 1: with you, glad you're with us here on Dallas Cowboys
Speaker 1: dot Com. And well it's time now for some Twitter
Speaker 1: on the twenty Twitter on the twenty. I'm taking it
Speaker 1: over today, taking my job back. Kyle, I like it.
Speaker 1: That's fine, shouts out ed k Hill, shouts out. Brian
Speaker 1: brought us get right into it, which actually, this is
Speaker 1: a really good question from said, you know something, if
Speaker 1: you will recall we've talked about a few times over
Speaker 1: the years, the Cowboys have not drafted a defensive tackle
Speaker 1: in the first round since Russell Maryland, so said, wants
Speaker 1: to know why do we think they would do that
Speaker 1: with javon Kinlaw? Well, and where is that philosophy? Where
Speaker 1: was that philosophy born? Was it born with the coaching staff?
Speaker 1: Was it born more with you know, the front office?
Speaker 1: Is that I mean, we've heard Stephen Jones talk about
Speaker 1: it before, but was he reiterating what the coaching staff,
Speaker 1: you know, what they wanted, or is he truly believe
Speaker 1: that you don't draft a defensive tackle that early. And
Speaker 1: we're talking about it's important to point out that not
Speaker 1: all defensive tackles are the same. You know, a one
Speaker 1: technique at three technique knows tackle. These things are all different.
Speaker 1: Javan Kinlaw is going to be an upfield penetrator. You know,
Speaker 1: he's a guy that you know is not going to
Speaker 1: be just a block eater and play forty percent of
Speaker 1: the snaps and one hundred percent agree you don't take
Speaker 1: a nose tackle in the first round. I'm on the board.
Speaker 1: I'm on board with that. But a guy that can
Speaker 1: be a disruptor. I mean, you tell me you're not
Speaker 1: gonna not that javon Kin Laws, Aaron Donald, But to
Speaker 1: get that interior disruption, you tell me you don't want
Speaker 1: to at least try to get that on your team.
Speaker 1: I think that they maybe it's just me thinking what
Speaker 1: they should do, but they should at least be open
Speaker 1: to a type of defensive tackle that can create pressure.
Speaker 1: But I think and I think that is an important
Speaker 1: designation because it was it was two or three years
Speaker 1: ago when Stephen Jones said at the comment, he was like, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're not going to draft a nose tackle in the
Speaker 1: first round. Yeah, a lot of people took that to
Speaker 1: mean defensive tackle. I don't necessarily think that's true. And yeah,
Speaker 1: Javon Kin laws six six three twenty pounds of pass
Speaker 1: rushing force. Like, if he's available, I think the Cowboys
Speaker 1: would be willing to do that, even if history suggests otherwise. Well,
Speaker 1: you're even looking at the guy at the Senior Bowl.
Speaker 1: I mean, one of the biggest things about him was
Speaker 1: just the pure raw power that he has, such media
Speaker 1: hands and the way that he can get inside. And
Speaker 1: I've said this a couple of times, but the way
Speaker 1: that Nate Newton described it, I mean, that's a six
Speaker 1: time Pro Bowler and a three time Super Bowl champion.
Speaker 1: He's saying, man, if he gets his hands inside on
Speaker 1: an offensive lineman, nobody's blocking the guy. He's going to
Speaker 1: be a pass rush or a run stopping option. You said,
Speaker 1: when was the last time they took a defensive tackle.
Speaker 1: It was whatever year, Russell Maryland. That's a long time now.
Speaker 1: Two years prior to that, they did take a defensive
Speaker 1: tackle out of Old Miss in eighty nine and excuse me,
Speaker 1: actually they took two defensive tackles in the same draft
Speaker 1: ninety one, they took two defensive tackles, one at pick
Speaker 1: number one and the other one at picked twenty. So
Speaker 1: that's kind of interesting. That's a while back, I mean,
Speaker 1: way before this regime was Yeah, I think part of
Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys. So it is kind of interesting to
Speaker 1: say when that kind of shift happened, just because it
Speaker 1: hasn't happened underneath this tutelage. But it's fun to think
Speaker 1: about overall. All Right, Dan, I'm gonna throw this one
Speaker 1: out there for our guy, Jeff Kavanaugh back in Dallas.
Speaker 1: I know exactly that. I'm just kidding Jeff. Speaking of Jeff,
Speaker 1: which is the question is about Jeff Gladney Kavanaugh absolutely
Speaker 1: loves and I feel like I get it. Nobody can
Speaker 1: really give me a consensus on where this guy's supposed
Speaker 1: to go, so BA wants Is he an option at seventeen?
Speaker 1: Do you view him that way? I definitely feel like
Speaker 1: he's the forgotten man among the better cornerbacks in this draft.
Speaker 1: How do you feel? Yeah, and I think he is.
Speaker 1: You know I mentioned this before, but the top tier
Speaker 1: is Jeff Okuda. He is the prototype of what you
Speaker 1: want at the cornerback vision. Why is he gonna go
Speaker 1: top five? That second tier of the cornerbacks, I don't
Speaker 1: know where it starts and I don't know where it ends.
Speaker 1: That's what we need to figure out between now and
Speaker 1: the draft, and then that second tier. I think CJ.
Speaker 1: Henderson Florida leads it off. I think Gladden he's next. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think he's the next guy in that next tier.
Speaker 1: And so I is seventeen too early, maybe based on
Speaker 1: how we've been talking, But the caliber player that you're getting,
Speaker 1: I don't think that's too early for him. He he
Speaker 1: is a junkyard dog. And I don't know if that
Speaker 1: I've ever said that about a corner I don't I
Speaker 1: don't know if I've ever said it about him, But
Speaker 1: that's how he plays. He's so competitive. Um. The Denzel
Speaker 1: Mims uh Jeff Gladdeney tape Baylor TCU from this past
Speaker 1: year is on a shortlist of my favorite tapes that
Speaker 1: I studied. UM this past year, the Gladdeney shadowed Mims
Speaker 1: up and down all over the formation. Um, Mims got
Speaker 1: him a few times, but uh Glad, He's more than
Speaker 1: held his own and showed why he has a chance
Speaker 1: to be a first round pick. He's not the biggest guy.
Speaker 1: He's he came in today about five ten. But I
Speaker 1: think he's gonna I think he's gonna blow up here
Speaker 1: in the workouts. Should run in the four threes, if
Speaker 1: not pretty close to it. So when you combine the play, personality,
Speaker 1: the speed, the mentality that he has, um, I would
Speaker 1: be okay drafting him top twenties. So first of all,
Speaker 1: you just sold me love it nice. It's like, for
Speaker 1: some reason, I wonder why I trust you a little
Speaker 1: bit more than I trust Kavanaugh. Well, kind of going
Speaker 1: off of that before we move on. Oh yeah, well
Speaker 1: talk go ahead. Sorry, Oh talking about Okuda, you said
Speaker 1: Okuda was top tier, and then you said in the
Speaker 1: middle of that second tier, you said C. J. Henderson
Speaker 1: out of Florida, Jeff Gladney out of TCU. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: now I'm gonna challenge you. We're just Christian Fulton was.
Speaker 1: We were gonna ask the same thing. I would love it.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna guess Fulton comes after Gladdeney for you. Uh,
Speaker 1: and how much of a disconnect I have digs and Glama, Right, Um,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna bet on digs Um all the traits that
Speaker 1: he offers Stefan's little brother from Alabama A bit tall,
Speaker 1: long corner. Uh, you can to see what he runs. Um.
Speaker 1: I think if he as long as it gets in
Speaker 1: the four fours, which I think he will, I think
Speaker 1: he's gonna be in that top twenty five mix. Um.
Speaker 1: But this is kind of what I was talking about
Speaker 1: with this corner. The second tier of corners, there's not
Speaker 1: gonna be any consensus. See that's I mean literally, I
Speaker 1: haven't seen anywhere near as much as you. But like
Speaker 1: I've watched, I've watched these top tier corners. I think
Speaker 1: if you lined them all up, you would blindly with
Speaker 1: no knowledge of their tape. I think you would probably
Speaker 1: take Digs like over everybody, just in terms of how
Speaker 1: impressive he is. Yeah, I think I like everybody else's
Speaker 1: tape better than his. Yeah, Like I mean he I
Speaker 1: it just he doesn't seem consistent from me from a
Speaker 1: consistency standpoint. Agree one hundred percent. I think if you
Speaker 1: take his highlights, you might take him first, you know,
Speaker 1: out of the group, because his highlights are so good.
Speaker 1: But when you include the low lights and some of
Speaker 1: his muh missteps in coverage and he's just is it
Speaker 1: kind of like Alabama just said, you're an athlete, go
Speaker 1: play like yeah, that the technique is not consistent, and
Speaker 1: that's that's good enough for like eighty percent of the
Speaker 1: guys that you play in college, right, But when you
Speaker 1: go up against the March Chase or Brian Edwards out
Speaker 1: of South Carolina or some of these guys that are
Speaker 1: gonna be playing in the NFL, it's kind of troublesome. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree, And so it's been It goes back to
Speaker 1: the traits conversation. You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna bet
Speaker 1: on certain traits at a certain position compared to uh,
Speaker 1: you know a guy that is just a good football player.
Speaker 1: And that's where you know, Christian Fulton maybe comes into
Speaker 1: the discussion. He's I think just a good foot ball player.
Speaker 1: But you know, we saw in the National title game.
Speaker 1: We've seen different points over his career how he'll give
Speaker 1: up some spacing at the top of routes. And I
Speaker 1: still think he's a good player. I think he's an
Speaker 1: NFL starter, but he is number five on the list
Speaker 1: for me. But I don't think it ends there. I
Speaker 1: think you include Cam Danceler from Missippi State. Jalen Johnson
Speaker 1: from Utah has a lot of fun in the scouting
Speaker 1: community at A lot of scouts think Jalen Johnson could
Speaker 1: be a first round pick. So Damon Arnett's a guy
Speaker 1: who I like a lot. Just kind of figure him
Speaker 1: out off the field. So I think that's what I
Speaker 1: was saying. In that second tier corners, I'm not sure
Speaker 1: where it starts and I'm not sure where it ends,
Speaker 1: but there's a lot of good corners in that mix
Speaker 1: that from picks fifteen to forty five, they were probably
Speaker 1: all going to go in that range. Let's just let's
Speaker 1: get into the weeds a little bit here on cornerback
Speaker 1: because yeah, you mentioned our net you're the Ohio state
Speaker 1: whisperer something like that. How And I've watched him too, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I was in love with him until I heard
Speaker 1: that there might be reasons outside the lines why I
Speaker 1: shouldn't be. How troubling is that? And do teams have
Speaker 1: a read on that yet? That's why this combine is
Speaker 1: gonna be so important for a player like that um
Speaker 1: for the interview process, because he was he was invited
Speaker 1: to the Senior Bowl, then he pulled out and so
Speaker 1: team's gonna a chance to talk to him with the
Speaker 1: Senior Bowl, and so it's gonna be really important here
Speaker 1: at the combine when he meets with general managers and coaches.
Speaker 1: When they asked him point point blank about certain things
Speaker 1: that happened behind the scenes, and I've heard from a
Speaker 1: lot of Buckeys fans they were saying like he wasn't
Speaker 1: a criminal and he wasn't arrested, and that's true, but remember,
Speaker 1: you know, did try polite last year? I heard the
Speaker 1: same thing. Yep, you know it wasn't. It wasn't arrested.
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that it's it's as bad as polite.
Speaker 1: Who you know, there's a third round pick and then
Speaker 1: couldn't make the roster. And with the Jets, Arnett has
Speaker 1: the ability. He's one of the best tackling corners I've
Speaker 1: scouted the last three four years. He has the athleticism
Speaker 1: where he can play mono imano on an island and
Speaker 1: hold his own. He came back for a senior year
Speaker 1: and played really, really well. And this is on a
Speaker 1: team where akutas on one side. Teams didn't want to
Speaker 1: throw to his side, so he saw his shaff targets
Speaker 1: and more than held his own. It's just can you
Speaker 1: trust him? Can you trust him to get the most
Speaker 1: out of his ability to be a professional. And as
Speaker 1: long as teams are semi convinced that that's the case,
Speaker 1: he's going to go as high as his talent suggests.
Speaker 1: And that's somewhere in the top forty picks. And while
Speaker 1: we're getting into the weeds a little bit here of
Speaker 1: the cornerback class, I mean you you talked about the
Speaker 1: second tier. Now there's a little bit of a gray
Speaker 1: area with those guys, maybe underneath Danceller, maybe with a
Speaker 1: Benongaty out of Auburn who's been solid. I mean, but
Speaker 1: what about some of those lower third tier guys. Let's
Speaker 1: talk about third tier. Is this a deep cornered class
Speaker 1: in terms of guys you could pull up maybe in
Speaker 1: the back end of day two to to be able
Speaker 1: to get as a starter. Yeah. Well, and that's as
Speaker 1: a starter I challenged to be because once you get
Speaker 1: in that third tier, that that's when you're talking about
Speaker 1: guys who are drastically missing. Something like a Meek Robertson
Speaker 1: from Louisiana Tech. Yeah, have you seen him at that?
Speaker 1: Haven't seen him, but Katie's in love with him. Also,
Speaker 1: he's got a he's got a hip issue. Yeah. Well
Speaker 1: he's also you know, like my size. Yes, yes, it's
Speaker 1: one way to put it. Yeah, he's he's about five
Speaker 1: eight and so um. You know, he's he's vertically challenged
Speaker 1: and that's something that at cornerback is a problem. But
Speaker 1: you watch him, man, he's fun. He will break on
Speaker 1: the ball, make plays. His ball production is tremendous. I
Speaker 1: think here's a stat for you. The last two years,
Speaker 1: only two players and at college football level had fifteen
Speaker 1: plush passes defense both years. Wow. Robertson's one of them.
Speaker 1: The other one a guy we just talks about Gladney. Wow.
Speaker 1: Another reason like Gladney's, it's even more impressive at the
Speaker 1: college level because like in college, if you're really good,
Speaker 1: teams just don't throw at right. And so for for
Speaker 1: him to have that many opportunities and cash in on him,
Speaker 1: that's that's really Yeah, big time ball producer. But again
Speaker 1: he's he's the big guys either. When you talk about
Speaker 1: Gladney and Robertson, right, right, But how is that going
Speaker 1: to translate to the next level when you're facing more
Speaker 1: size at the position, and um, so yeah, a guy
Speaker 1: like him. We're a guy like Stanford Samuel's from or
Speaker 1: To State. Who has the size, does he have the speed?
Speaker 1: And that's the question with him, something hopefully he can
Speaker 1: answer here. Josiah Scott from Michigan State. Another guy that
Speaker 1: has lockdown ability, athleticism traits, but he's vastly undersized. He's
Speaker 1: five nine buck eighty five on his best day. So
Speaker 1: you know, once we get to that third tier we got,
Speaker 1: we have guys that are really talented, but there might
Speaker 1: be one thing that's missing that really clouds their evaluation.
Speaker 1: All Right, I'm gonna throw you this is this is
Speaker 1: the one I prepped you for from our buddy Landon
Speaker 1: which this is a Dane Brugler special because he wants
Speaker 1: to know if there are any really quality fullbacks worth discussing,
Speaker 1: which the Cowboys. The Cowboys have a fullback Jamaezela Wally.
Speaker 1: He also he has an option on his deal, which
Speaker 1: typically I would ignore that, but this is an all
Speaker 1: new coaching staff, so they could have a completely different idea.
Speaker 1: I do really think Mike McCarthy will want a fullback
Speaker 1: that was a hallmark of his Green Bay teams. Right,
Speaker 1: So what you got for me? Guy from Cincinnati tight
Speaker 1: end convert jo Josiah Deguara. Uh. He is a try
Speaker 1: hard you know, he fits a lot of the narratives
Speaker 1: what you're looking for in a fullback. Checks a lot
Speaker 1: of those boxes. Uh. He is a guy here who's
Speaker 1: listed as a tight end, but scouts actually asked him
Speaker 1: to work out also with the running back group to
Speaker 1: see how he can do uh in certain situations, both
Speaker 1: as a pass blocker and uh handling the football. So
Speaker 1: he is a guy that I would keep on the
Speaker 1: radar as a Day three pick um as a possibility
Speaker 1: of fullback who can play special teams. Um can make plays.
Speaker 1: He's going to give full effort NonStop. That was one
Speaker 1: thing when you watch his tape, it doesn't mean matter
Speaker 1: like who the ball is going to. He is busting
Speaker 1: his butt up and down the field and so uh
Speaker 1: that definitely gets your attention when when you're scouting his film.
Speaker 1: So Deguara from Cincinnati is a name I'd keep in mind.
Speaker 1: He caught some attention a little bit at the Senior
Speaker 1: Bowl as well, working out as a tight end. Made
Speaker 1: a couple plays in practices that were pretty impressive, but
Speaker 1: kind of going along that theme, and we'll stick with
Speaker 1: the fullback here, But what about a guy like Hunter
Speaker 1: Bryant who's out of Washington, a little bit of a
Speaker 1: small h back, a little bit in in Washington. What
Speaker 1: could he see as a potential of being a fullback.
Speaker 1: I don't if you're drafting Hunter Bryan it's not to
Speaker 1: be a blocker. He can't block, um to just to
Speaker 1: really sum it up, and I mean, you know two seconds, Um,
Speaker 1: he's not a guy you're gonna want to trust. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know in the backfield, the pass protecting or trying
Speaker 1: to run block, he just doesn't have. That's not his game.
Speaker 1: The reason he's gonna go I mean, as long as
Speaker 1: the medicals are okay, he's got long medical list. As
Speaker 1: long as the medicals are okay, he's gonna go somewhere
Speaker 1: in the top three rounds probably probably throw around. And
Speaker 1: as long as the medicals are okay, he's gonna go
Speaker 1: that high because of his abilities as a pass catcher. Um.
Speaker 1: And he's kind of in that Noah fant mold where um,
Speaker 1: he's more of a big slot than he is a
Speaker 1: true traditional tight end. And that's okay, it's just understanding
Speaker 1: what his strengths are before you invest in a player
Speaker 1: like that. I really like him, and I agree with you,
Speaker 1: but I when I watched him, and I think I
Speaker 1: watched two games, so take it with a grain of salt.
Speaker 1: But like I thought, he he's definitely not a blocker,
Speaker 1: but I thought he showed a willingness to do it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if they asked him too, he'll be a roadblock. You know,
Speaker 1: he'll get away. That's all I want, right, just get
Speaker 1: run over by the end and open it up for
Speaker 1: my running back or whoever has the ball. Like, if
Speaker 1: you're willing to do it, that's all I'm asking. Well,
Speaker 1: but it depends on what you're gonna ask him to do.
Speaker 1: Like if a if a defense sees him on the
Speaker 1: field and understands, like you know what, they understand what
Speaker 1: his strengths are. They can identify what the offense is
Speaker 1: trying to do because they know if it's a true
Speaker 1: drop back situation, maybe he's not out there blocking um,
Speaker 1: and so they can identify from the personnel. I just
Speaker 1: think he's a little too one dimensional for me, but
Speaker 1: who knows. He did. The coaching staff here might feel differently.
Speaker 1: That's and again, I mean that's That was my point
Speaker 1: at the top of the show is I would have
Speaker 1: I would have put up with strike through Hunter Bryant's
Speaker 1: name last year, and this year I'm not as willing
Speaker 1: to do it. Uh, do we have time for one?
Speaker 1: One more? Let's get it out. This is from Dustin
Speaker 1: And you know, I don't want to beat receiver and
Speaker 1: in the ground too much, but I feel like there's
Speaker 1: a very small but very vocal segment of cowboy fans
Speaker 1: who are smitten with kJ Hamdler. So what do you
Speaker 1: what do you think about it? And you know, when
Speaker 1: we talk about this loaded receiver class, I do kind
Speaker 1: of feel like he slips between the cracks like he's
Speaker 1: a I mean, he's a he's a top one hundred guy,
Speaker 1: Yeah he is. And and but like he doesn't get
Speaker 1: mentioned nearly as often as a lot of the guys
Speaker 1: that are in that range. He talked about, like, you know,
Speaker 1: toys for your offense. He qualified me. He's just he's
Speaker 1: fun to watch because he's a blur with his speed. Um.
Speaker 1: The thing with him is he's so small and that
Speaker 1: really I don't know, if you know, for a guy
Speaker 1: like Dak I don't know if that's like the best
Speaker 1: uh situation, because the smaller the target, the more accurate
Speaker 1: you have to be. And you know, Dak's not saying
Speaker 1: he's an any accurate quarterback, but I think he thrives
Speaker 1: more when the receivers have a chance to adjust to
Speaker 1: the throw. And that's something where Hamdler he's it's not
Speaker 1: his strength and he even talked about it here. He said,
Speaker 1: I he flat out said, I run before I catch
Speaker 1: the ball. And that's why he had double digit drops
Speaker 1: last year. He tied for the most drops in college
Speaker 1: football last year with twelve. And that's part that kind
Speaker 1: of turns it off. Part A part of it is
Speaker 1: his size. You know, he's a five eight guy who
Speaker 1: it does not have the frame that you're looking for,
Speaker 1: but at the same time, get the ball in his
Speaker 1: hands and he can make something happen because he's so speed,
Speaker 1: he eliminates those pursued angles. He can weave through the
Speaker 1: defense and create uh. You know, he's the guy that
Speaker 1: not to use a baseball reference, but it looks like
Speaker 1: a single and all of a sudden he's on third base.
Speaker 1: You know how that just happened? Well, d Gordon actually
Speaker 1: exactly that's that's what he does, and so there's certainly
Speaker 1: value in that. It's just figuring out how your best
Speaker 1: going to utilize him, and then what's the value in
Speaker 1: the draft. Is that a guy that you would consider
Speaker 1: taking late first round, early second round, or is that
Speaker 1: more a guy you're hoping to get mcole Hardman late
Speaker 1: second round range, Which I didn't like McCole Hardman that
Speaker 1: there's some similarities there. Well, well, maybe I should shut
Speaker 1: up then, because m Paul Harman was a big part
Speaker 1: of that Super Bowl winning Chiefs team, so well, it
Speaker 1: was a good situation for him because he wasn't asked
Speaker 1: to be the guy. It wasn't asked to be even
Speaker 1: a number three on that team. He he was like
Speaker 1: the freaking seat warmer in the Ferrari Like they're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: like nobody needs this, but it's fun. But when we
Speaker 1: break it out, it's gonna be a lot of fun
Speaker 1: to watch. Well, and about kJ Hamliner, he's one of
Speaker 1: the top three smallest guys Penn State. Yes, trying to
Speaker 1: mention schools, one of the one of the top three
Speaker 1: smallest wide receivers in the entire class both sides in
Speaker 1: terms of hype and waife as well. And then you
Speaker 1: also look at the fact that he's only twenty years old.
Speaker 1: He'll be oh yeah, like just twenty whenever he's got
Speaker 1: the draft or whenever the draft does come around. So
Speaker 1: he's one of the younger guys too. You have a
Speaker 1: lot of time to develop them, and he's a guy
Speaker 1: we would be talking about more tonight. Um U for
Speaker 1: the the wide receivers work right now, because I think
Speaker 1: he would have run like I was. The way he
Speaker 1: ran a four two seven during training. Wow, who knows,
Speaker 1: you know, but he I strained something out of a
Speaker 1: hammy or something. So he's not running here at the combine,
Speaker 1: but when he does run, it's gonna be he's got
Speaker 1: that audio speed. Wow. So plenty of wide receivers to
Speaker 1: look out for, but that's going to do it here
Speaker 1: for Twitter on the twenty. When we come back, we'll
Speaker 1: wrap things up here in day two of the Dallas
Speaker 1: Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. We'll be back at just
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Speaker 1: wrapped you up and now your hosts, David Hellman and
Speaker 1: Kyle Yeoman's I feel about the Cowboys like growing up,
Speaker 1: I had a lot of animosity towards them. I gonna lie, h,
Speaker 1: but I mean I love every team. Shoot, I have
Speaker 1: not remembered the Cowboys, but you know I actually played
Speaker 1: in the stadium my Bowl game and toward the Vesodi.
Speaker 1: I mean it's an incredible it's incredible place. So I
Speaker 1: think it's called Jerry's World. Yeah, that place blew in
Speaker 1: my mind. I mean it was just on a different level.
Speaker 1: And then I even expect this so little have fun
Speaker 1: there from uture gross Matos out of Penn State and
Speaker 1: talking about Jerry World as he got to play in
Speaker 1: the Cotton Bowl as Penn State and the Ninny Lions
Speaker 1: played against Memphis, but also talking about you had a
Speaker 1: little bit of animosity toward the Cowboys as a Giants
Speaker 1: fan growing up, which is understandable. You either love him
Speaker 1: or you hate him. Man hate him or you love them.
Speaker 1: I get why they don't. I understand why players don't
Speaker 1: want to talk about like who they liked or they didn't.
Speaker 1: But like, I don't know, it's just fun And like
Speaker 1: if a team likes you enough to draft to you,
Speaker 1: nobody's going to even remember that you grew up a
Speaker 1: Giants fan. Like, let's just have a little fun with it. Well,
Speaker 1: and it's also whatever jersey you're gonna put on Sunday.
Speaker 1: How much more fun was the twenty sixteen draft when
Speaker 1: we had that clip of Zeke talking about wanting to
Speaker 1: run behind the Cowboys oline and like, you know, he
Speaker 1: was mad that he said it, but it worked out,
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, exactly ended up working out for the better
Speaker 1: and now we love ourselves some Zeke Elliott. But wrapping
Speaker 1: things up, Dave Hellman, Dame Brugler, Kyle Yeoman's here with
Speaker 1: you on the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft show. And
Speaker 1: of course tonight the start of the drills. Does it
Speaker 1: not feel like it's Dane for you, especially like I
Speaker 1: feel like we've been here a year? Oh yeah, at
Speaker 1: least before some drills are finally going to happen, right,
Speaker 1: And that's uh, it's a marathon, it really is, because
Speaker 1: it's it's you gotta pace yourself. The last few days
Speaker 1: have been really busy, um, but it's it's all this
Speaker 1: stuff is valuable. Um. Yeah, there's there's so much to gain,
Speaker 1: and it's just trying to trying to schedule everything, get
Speaker 1: everything fit in. But tonight it'll be a lot of
Speaker 1: fun when the next four nights will be fun when
Speaker 1: we can see these guys on the field, um, you know,
Speaker 1: get the quantitative data next to these guys, um and
Speaker 1: just eager to see them move in space. Um. And
Speaker 1: especially the love the comparison purposes seeing these guys one
Speaker 1: after the other. Uh, you know, for example tonight with
Speaker 1: Jacob Eason and Jake from Um the Alpha order, so
Speaker 1: F and E they're gonna go run one after the other.
Speaker 1: Um Esan's got that howitzer, fer an arm and then
Speaker 1: meanwhile From's a little more physically average. And so what's
Speaker 1: the difference going to be. Is it going to be huge?
Speaker 1: Is it going to be you know, maybe just a
Speaker 1: little bit. And so seeing these guys run one after
Speaker 1: the other throw or work out really helps for comparison purposes,
Speaker 1: specifically tonight quarterbacks, wide receivers, tight ends. What are some
Speaker 1: of the drills that you're gonna see over the course
Speaker 1: of the afternoon and then into the evening of really
Speaker 1: importance whenever it comes to these three positions, well, make
Speaker 1: sure you're got your eyes glued on the TV. When
Speaker 1: Henny Ruggs run, yea, that's being forgot that it's a
Speaker 1: basic storyline. But I hope he breaks the record. That'd
Speaker 1: be fun. That would be a lot of fun. And
Speaker 1: it's one of those things where we know he's fast,
Speaker 1: so it's not like we should get that excited about it.
Speaker 1: But it's just fun to watch. You know, guys that
Speaker 1: are really good at what they do do do do
Speaker 1: that at a high level. And Ruggs is a speed guy,
Speaker 1: and it's it's almost to the point where you know,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be disappointing when he when he doesn't when
Speaker 1: he were at like a four to two nine, which
Speaker 1: is unbelievable. But he's gonna run a four three three
Speaker 1: and everybody's gonna be like, what happened? Second round? Yeah,
Speaker 1: drop them down. But um, a lot of these guys
Speaker 1: Jalen Raager from TC another guy, um, you know DFW
Speaker 1: guy who he won a state title in the long
Speaker 1: jump in high school, so you know, the broad jumps
Speaker 1: a little different so on. But I'm eager to see
Speaker 1: him with some of these jumps. He's really explosive. He's
Speaker 1: gonna run probably in the four threes. But eager to
Speaker 1: see some of these jumps and some of the things
Speaker 1: that he's gonna do. That's gonna be a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: And then the that's the agility stuff, the positional drills.
Speaker 1: We talked about the gauntlet and how much fun that is,
Speaker 1: especially now with the being timed and seeing these guys
Speaker 1: catch the football, secure it and turn the other way
Speaker 1: and then get going. It's that that's gonna be a
Speaker 1: lot of fun seeing these guys track the ball over
Speaker 1: their shoulder, and you know, it's it's one of those
Speaker 1: things where you don't you're trying not to take too
Speaker 1: much from it. Um, you know, it can be a
Speaker 1: little misleading at times. Some guys just have bad days,
Speaker 1: but still value there to be gained. I thought Mike
Speaker 1: McCarthy made a really interesting point yesterday when we were
Speaker 1: talking to him that I honestly hadn't really considered it.
Speaker 1: I'm sure somebody else has, but you know, we're in
Speaker 1: prime time now, and specifically, like when you're talking about
Speaker 1: forties and three cones and all this stuff, like you
Speaker 1: think that'll maybe drop some of these numbers. Like you're
Speaker 1: sitting around waiting all day. Yeah, you know, you've probably
Speaker 1: had all three meals by the time you run your forty.
Speaker 1: Your legs are maybe a little more not as fresh
Speaker 1: as you'd prefer, because, I mean, this convention center is
Speaker 1: absurdly big, by the way, so you've been walking around
Speaker 1: all day. Mean, I know it sounds dumb, but you
Speaker 1: know these guys used to run their forties. Like first
Speaker 1: thing in the morning, nine o'clock in the morning. Now
Speaker 1: you're doing it at nine o'clock at night. Like, I
Speaker 1: feel like that could have a pretty big effect. Oh, no,
Speaker 1: no question, And especially because it's not like these guys
Speaker 1: get a lot of breaks. I mean, they go through
Speaker 1: the ringer all day. They're gonna be in interviews. It's
Speaker 1: a you know, maybe not physically but mentally draining and
Speaker 1: then you got to get yourself up to go do
Speaker 1: these drills. So I think that is now. You know,
Speaker 1: these guys are used to playing night games, so they've
Speaker 1: got a routine there. But at the same time, this
Speaker 1: is different. This is a whole different animal. And you know,
Speaker 1: now that they've made these changes, I just I don't
Speaker 1: think I don't think they're gonna go back, you know,
Speaker 1: until the morning. Yeah, And so it's just, uh, this
Speaker 1: year is gonna be so interesting to see how that works.
Speaker 1: Eager to see the ratings, Like, you know, I know
Speaker 1: how much I love the combine, and I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: you know, tuned in. But you know, the average football fan,
Speaker 1: are they gonna be really intrigued by this? I don't know.
Speaker 1: And that's gonna be really interesting to launch. You talk
Speaker 1: about the ratings from a league wide perspective, In all
Speaker 1: of the events throughout the year, the only one that
Speaker 1: didn't necessarily see a spike over the past decade was
Speaker 1: the Combine. So this being a ditch effort to kind
Speaker 1: of make it a prime time event, make those numbers spike,
Speaker 1: but it might make the numbers physically fall a little bit,
Speaker 1: which is kind of you had to do it at
Speaker 1: some point. If you're gonna move it, there's gonna be
Speaker 1: that one transition year. I hope, I mean, respectfully, I
Speaker 1: hope you're wrong. I think your problem is right. But
Speaker 1: this is an experiment and I hope it fails, and
Speaker 1: I hope it can go back, because I mean, we
Speaker 1: all love the Combine. If you're listening to this, you
Speaker 1: love the Combine. But I almost think like the casual
Speaker 1: football fan almost resents the Combine because they're sitting at home, like, Okay,
Speaker 1: who's the freaking body from Colorado who's gonna, you know,
Speaker 1: set the record for the forty And then I mean,
Speaker 1: the last guy that set the forty record, John Ross,
Speaker 1: has had a bad career, hasn't been there, he hasn't
Speaker 1: has not been good for him in Cincinnati. So I
Speaker 1: understand the casual fans reluctance to buy in that this
Speaker 1: is important. And if you look at like the top ten, uh,
Speaker 1: like the NFL network tweeted something, how like you know,
Speaker 1: the the top forty yard dash times since two thousand
Speaker 1: and four or something like that, like the best player
Speaker 1: on the like the top ten, top twelve, best player
Speaker 1: on there was probably Chris Johnson. Yeah, and then the
Speaker 1: second fastest time at the moment, right, and then after
Speaker 1: that there was you know, like a lot of names
Speaker 1: that people don't know. And so that's why. And I
Speaker 1: get it because a lot of track athletes who don't
Speaker 1: not good football player. But but and I guess that's
Speaker 1: why I would say casual fans resented because they don't
Speaker 1: they're not interested in Sure, this is where all the
Speaker 1: medicals happen, and this is what's going on. These are
Speaker 1: you know, the three cone is actually so much more
Speaker 1: indicative than these other drills and things like that, And
Speaker 1: so I don't blame them for resenting it. And at
Speaker 1: the same time, I'm just like, and I'm I'm I
Speaker 1: think i feel like I'm speaking for a few thousand
Speaker 1: personnel people when I'm like, just let us geeks have
Speaker 1: this right, right, and you know the casual fans will
Speaker 1: be there when the season starts or when the draft starts.
Speaker 1: The money will come no matter what. Yeah, a lot
Speaker 1: of a lot of a lot of fans have seen
Speaker 1: these college players. The thing that I would just say
Speaker 1: is just go into the into the combine with having
Speaker 1: an idea of how you think they're going to test.
Speaker 1: You know, have some type of uh, some type of ideas.
Speaker 1: So when they run, that tells you, Okay, while we
Speaker 1: ran a lot faster, or he ran a lot slower,
Speaker 1: or you know, I was dead on with what I
Speaker 1: thought that that is a fun exercise that you can
Speaker 1: do that helps you. You know, it's not going to
Speaker 1: be the most exciting event, but it's something that could
Speaker 1: get you through, could get you through. And despite it
Speaker 1: being a little bit different, despite it being a little
Speaker 1: bit of an oddity for this year's combine, we're still
Speaker 1: excited to see prospects continue. It'll i mean, tasks it.
Speaker 1: You know, it'll be a bigger deal because it's on
Speaker 1: at night and you know, maybe some guys will trend
Speaker 1: on Twitter because of what they're doing at the combine.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, there's not that much else going
Speaker 1: on in the world of sports right now, is there? No,
Speaker 1: not really NBA stuff, but I mean overall, so you're right, yeah, Wow,
Speaker 1: that was a big said that because Lebron left. No,
Speaker 1: poor guy, it's fine port Ohio. I mean, we'll see,
Speaker 1: but uh, I mean even then, like if we look
Speaker 1: up and Henry Ruggs is running a disappointing four three
Speaker 1: three and he's still one of the faster top wide
Speaker 1: receiver times, then maybe it is a field experiment and
Speaker 1: maybe Dave Helman gets his wish. We'll see if that
Speaker 1: that comes out, But that is gonna do it here
Speaker 1: for the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft show here on
Speaker 1: Thursday afternoon. So glad you've joined us, Dane, thanks so
Speaker 1: much again anytime all the way throughout the week and
Speaker 1: throughout this draft process. Dave Helmont down on the end
Speaker 1: of the table, I'm Kyle Yelman's thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1: We'll see you tomorrow here on Dallas Cowboys dot Com.
Speaker 1: This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. M