1
00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,320
Speaker 1: Yes, have no fear of the Iron rap Reports Stereo

2
00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:16,599
Speaker 1: podcast is here. Iron Rapports Stereo Podcast this year. This

3
00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:22,759
Speaker 1: may be the best. This podcast may be the best

4
00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:28,680
Speaker 1: interview podcast I have ever done. Alan Hughes, who directed

5
00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,440
Speaker 1: with his brother Menace to Society, who directed with his

6
00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,920
Speaker 1: brother Dead Presidents, who directed on his own The Defiant

7
00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:40,479
Speaker 1: Ones about Doctor Dre and Jimmy Iveen, and who just

8
00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:46,800
Speaker 1: directed another masterpiece, a five part over five hour documentary

9
00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:53,200
Speaker 1: called Dear Mama about two pac This is a masterclass

10
00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:58,320
Speaker 1: in podcasting, a masterclass in filmmaking. You're only as good

11
00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,480
Speaker 1: as your guests, and Alan Hughes is one of the

12
00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:03,279
Speaker 1: best that I've ever had on.

13
00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:06,360
Speaker 2: I Am rap Port Stereo Podcast.

14
00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,520
Speaker 1: Coming up now with the great Alan, who's talking about

15
00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,280
Speaker 1: every single thing and more.

16
00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,320
Speaker 2: I'm so proud, so excited about this episode.

17
00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:20,800
Speaker 1: Miles Jordan aka the Bleach Brothers aka the Dust brother Start.

18
00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:21,840
Speaker 2: This puppy off for something real nice.

19
00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,280
Speaker 1: Start this puppy off with something real out, but most importantly,

20
00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:30,800
Speaker 1: start this I Am Rappaport Stereo Podcast museum quality episode

21
00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,360
Speaker 1: off with something real funky.

22
00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:56,240
Speaker 2: See I Am Rapaport Stereo Podcast. Let's go the Great

23
00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:57,520
Speaker 2: Alan Hughes.

24
00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,080
Speaker 1: To have you on the podcast Psyche to Talk to You,

25
00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,480
Speaker 1: Psyche to Pick your Brain. Got so many questions, Alan,

26
00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:13,919
Speaker 1: Who's Dear Mama five part five hours documentary about a

27
00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,400
Speaker 1: Fenny Chakor and Tupac Shakur. It's really an a Fenny

28
00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:23,160
Speaker 1: and Tupac Shakur documentary. You directed the Defiant Ones, which

29
00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:24,920
Speaker 1: was also ridiculous.

30
00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:27,639
Speaker 2: Redict was that four parts?

31
00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:28,480
Speaker 3: That was four parts?

32
00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:29,240
Speaker 2: Four hours?

33
00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,560
Speaker 3: Four hours? Yeah, a little over four hours.

34
00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,760
Speaker 1: Defiant Ones, which we could do a whole podcast about

35
00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,400
Speaker 1: that because when I saw that, I mean I was

36
00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:43,840
Speaker 1: bugged out just by the undertaking, just everything that you

37
00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,560
Speaker 1: were able to capture and Defiant Ones menace to society,

38
00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,560
Speaker 1: the Book of Eli And like I said, the Dear

39
00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:52,919
Speaker 1: Mama five part.

40
00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,920
Speaker 2: Documentary, how many hours? Like? What is it? Is it

41
00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:56,880
Speaker 2: five hours total?

42
00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,000
Speaker 3: That's right, Dear Mama's five hours roughly?

43
00:02:59,080 --> 00:02:59,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, in credit.

44
00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,519
Speaker 1: I've talked about it on my podcasts. I've told friends

45
00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:07,680
Speaker 1: to watch it. It's just such a feat to have

46
00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,920
Speaker 1: done what you did when somebody has been is documented

47
00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:14,520
Speaker 1: and talked about as much as Tupac.

48
00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:16,240
Speaker 2: To do that the way you did it, I just

49
00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,400
Speaker 2: have to just I was very impressed.

50
00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:21,960
Speaker 4: I got your bat signal on social media before I

51
00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:23,079
Speaker 4: went off social media.

52
00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:24,200
Speaker 2: Are you off?

53
00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:26,880
Speaker 4: I'm off it completely now, especially after what Musk has

54
00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:28,399
Speaker 4: done to Twitter.

55
00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,240
Speaker 2: Because you're a Twitter that's just I was more on.

56
00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:30,880
Speaker 3: My Twitter guy.

57
00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:31,000
Speaker 5: Now.

58
00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:32,960
Speaker 4: I would fire up the Instagram every now and then,

59
00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,200
Speaker 4: and then it would just afflict and the fuck my life,

60
00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,200
Speaker 4: you know. And that's when I saw you going on

61
00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,240
Speaker 4: about dear Mama. I said, I got to reach out

62
00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,280
Speaker 4: to him because I'm in such awe of the way

63
00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,000
Speaker 4: you reinvented yourself. And I don't know if I would

64
00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,200
Speaker 4: if we call Michael an actor per se anymore, because

65
00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,200
Speaker 4: you act, but you know anyone, and I just got

66
00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,560
Speaker 4: to start with this. Anyone like you that can, especially

67
00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,240
Speaker 4: as an actor, speak their truth and be loud and

68
00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:03,680
Speaker 4: fucking out there about your opinions is refreshing, especially now,

69
00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:06,800
Speaker 4: you know, and I'm like, who is this guy? And

70
00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,000
Speaker 4: how does this guy connect to that first twenty five

71
00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:12,200
Speaker 4: thirty years And it's inspiring to see you doing what

72
00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:14,560
Speaker 4: you're doing. So when I heard you were saying this stuff,

73
00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:16,120
Speaker 4: I go, well, I know you a little bit. I'm like,

74
00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,080
Speaker 4: I got to go see my man. Because however, you've

75
00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,480
Speaker 4: been moving whenever you've been moving and speaking your truth.

76
00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,240
Speaker 4: I know it started with me with the Tribe called

77
00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:28,000
Speaker 4: Quest documentary, which I was shocked by. I was like, wow,

78
00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,840
Speaker 4: this is one of the first hip hop documentaries that

79
00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,800
Speaker 4: was really great and wasn't raggedy they always do it raggedy, right,

80
00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,240
Speaker 4: And the inner workings of that partnership and the way

81
00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,279
Speaker 4: you documented it was innovative for me at the time

82
00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,320
Speaker 4: and inspiring. That was several years before the Defiant Ones.

83
00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,080
Speaker 4: So I just had to give you your propts. Man, just

84
00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:49,040
Speaker 4: as as a personality out there speaking your truth in

85
00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:51,240
Speaker 4: life and as a filmmaker.

86
00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:53,240
Speaker 2: I appreciate it. And I mean that from the bottom mine. No,

87
00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,120
Speaker 2: I appreciate it because I have so much respect for

88
00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:59,039
Speaker 2: you and your crack staff. Yes, my crack staff, and

89
00:04:59,080 --> 00:04:59,839
Speaker 2: I know you were a howard.

90
00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:03,920
Speaker 3: S aren't show fit every episode, all of it, every episode.

91
00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:05,719
Speaker 1: I mean, they need to get back. We've had a

92
00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,920
Speaker 1: long enough break. How long does he take a break

93
00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:09,600
Speaker 1: for that? It's up scene now he only works three

94
00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:11,480
Speaker 1: days a week when he's on right, three days a week.

95
00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,160
Speaker 1: And I mean, like, when you get to this part

96
00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:14,160
Speaker 1: in the summer, you're like come.

97
00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:15,240
Speaker 2: On, man, that's torture.

98
00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,560
Speaker 1: Come on, man, you've never been on his show. No,

99
00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,200
Speaker 1: you should see the defiant ones he did. We had

100
00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,440
Speaker 1: Jimmy in the show. Okay, he did, and he loved it.

101
00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:28,680
Speaker 1: But I'm not what do you call it?

102
00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:31,200
Speaker 4: I must not be colorful enough for a whack pack.

103
00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:33,120
Speaker 3: Enough for Howard Stern. You either got to be a

104
00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:33,760
Speaker 3: real rock star.

105
00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:35,880
Speaker 1: That's a compliment or not a complic because it's like

106
00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:37,640
Speaker 1: you kind of like because people are like, are you

107
00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:38,120
Speaker 1: whack pack?

108
00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:39,839
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I'm not, but I kind of wish

109
00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:40,479
Speaker 2: I was.

110
00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:44,200
Speaker 4: You're low bred hybrid, you know, you know you like

111
00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:49,400
Speaker 4: you like cusp. You know, a rockstar whack pack out

112
00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,080
Speaker 4: into Gary's teeth right the way you go up for Gary.

113
00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:54,480
Speaker 2: God's so brutal.

114
00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,040
Speaker 4: I know that's the only time listening to Howard Stern

115
00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,880
Speaker 4: I go when Michael goes up and Gary, I could tell,

116
00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:01,520
Speaker 4: is the only time it really hurts.

117
00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:08,520
Speaker 2: I made it listen.

118
00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:10,360
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to talk to and like I said,

119
00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:12,520
Speaker 1: you know, I could literally sit here and talk to

120
00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:14,599
Speaker 1: you for an hour and a half just about the

121
00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,200
Speaker 1: fine ones. You know, I could talk about the menace

122
00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:19,200
Speaker 1: to society and where you and your brother are at

123
00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,320
Speaker 1: dead presidents and all that stuff. So I want to

124
00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:24,039
Speaker 1: stay focused because I know I can only ask you

125
00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,640
Speaker 1: so many things. The first question I want to ask

126
00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,440
Speaker 1: you is where is this business going?

127
00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:31,400
Speaker 2: Currently? We're on strike? You guys.

128
00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,080
Speaker 1: Directors are not on strike, but the actors on Shrike

129
00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,200
Speaker 1: WGA is on strike. You know, you've been in this

130
00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:41,200
Speaker 1: business a long time, even before you made Menace as

131
00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,760
Speaker 1: a grown man. Now who came up, you know, very young?

132
00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,640
Speaker 1: Where is this business going for filmmakers and filmmaking? And

133
00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,360
Speaker 1: you know, filmmaking is almost like a niche thing because

134
00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:53,880
Speaker 1: TV is so strong. So what is your just take

135
00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:54,240
Speaker 1: on that?

136
00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,880
Speaker 4: You know, it's interesting when I got into this happy

137
00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:02,800
Speaker 4: action and career of like docmentarian, when I did Define Ones.

138
00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:05,640
Speaker 4: After the Define Ones, I was making a lot of

139
00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,479
Speaker 4: really big deals in the documentary space. I also produced

140
00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,920
Speaker 4: and wrote the Arnold Schwaschningger documentary just came out of it.

141
00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,880
Speaker 4: Didn't know that, Yep, that's my baby, wow, and.

142
00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:17,480
Speaker 2: Shit, I didn't know that.

143
00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,520
Speaker 4: We thought the streaming we call it the Streaming Wars.

144
00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,440
Speaker 4: We thought the second act of the Streaming Wars was

145
00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,360
Speaker 4: gonna last five to ten years which is big money,

146
00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,360
Speaker 4: especially in documentaries, which there never was before, let alone

147
00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:36,240
Speaker 4: scripted and whatever. It lasted three years and it went busted.

148
00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,040
Speaker 4: And I have friends in this business that go some

149
00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:43,560
Speaker 4: that are moguls and hip hop stars that say, you

150
00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,280
Speaker 4: need to, you know, figure out what your next career

151
00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,680
Speaker 4: is going to be, you know, you know, scared for me.

152
00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,240
Speaker 4: I'm like, no, as long as you're a storyteller, there'll

153
00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,800
Speaker 4: always be storytelling. This is a form of storytelling. I'm

154
00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,480
Speaker 4: not worried about that. But what is happening is like

155
00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,360
Speaker 4: the documentary medium was really blown up. And Netflix, you

156
00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,440
Speaker 4: got to give them credit for like the international reach

157
00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,880
Speaker 4: and whether it's The Tiger King or or what was

158
00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,400
Speaker 4: the other series they had, The Tender Swindler, whatever the

159
00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,880
Speaker 4: fuck it is. They're blowing documentaries up to a level

160
00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:16,040
Speaker 4: that feature films only had the reach like that globally,

161
00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:21,680
Speaker 4: and scripted obviously was doing big limited series, you know,

162
00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,480
Speaker 4: things like White Lotus. These are like new phenomenons. Back

163
00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:27,560
Speaker 4: they used to be called mini series and they were

164
00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,800
Speaker 4: more like tawdry back then. I don't think this shit's

165
00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,120
Speaker 4: going anywhere. I think that it's gonna There was so

166
00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,720
Speaker 4: much that all that Fat's gonna fall by the wayside,

167
00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,520
Speaker 4: and there's gonna be the big three streamers. That's what's

168
00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,400
Speaker 4: gonna happen. And if you're a dope storyteller, you gotta

169
00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,000
Speaker 4: be telling stories into you croak.

170
00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:45,760
Speaker 2: I mean, why not.

171
00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,360
Speaker 1: Did you ever think, I know you didn't think this.

172
00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:52,000
Speaker 1: Did you ever think that, like film wouldn't be the

173
00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,400
Speaker 1: place to go making movies.

174
00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:55,560
Speaker 2: It's crazy to me.

175
00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:57,000
Speaker 3: I don't think anyone saw that coming.

176
00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:01,959
Speaker 4: Where the cinema Well, now it's like Barbie, you know,

177
00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,559
Speaker 4: is well look at Oppenheimer for whatever you one may

178
00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,360
Speaker 4: think of that film. That's a talking head films that

179
00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:10,240
Speaker 4: just did seven hundred and fifteen million dollars.

180
00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:12,199
Speaker 2: But it's Barbie opping.

181
00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:14,520
Speaker 1: I mean, like there used to be like you could

182
00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,000
Speaker 1: go to the movies every week in these joints, big joints,

183
00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:18,760
Speaker 1: little joint.

184
00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:20,760
Speaker 3: Is, comedies, romnic comedies.

185
00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:21,839
Speaker 2: You know, it's like.

186
00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,319
Speaker 1: Barbie, they're great and it's great that people wanting to

187
00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,319
Speaker 1: see them, but it's like it's just different.

188
00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:29,959
Speaker 2: It's very different. Well it's you know, I mean everything

189
00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:30,640
Speaker 2: has this day.

190
00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,200
Speaker 4: You know, it's like you look at the NBA now

191
00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:35,480
Speaker 4: versus the NBA in the eighties, is different.

192
00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:37,680
Speaker 2: Yes, right, so, but I.

193
00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:39,480
Speaker 4: Do think like again back to like, I don't know

194
00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:41,640
Speaker 4: why I keep bringing up White Lotus. You go, that

195
00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,720
Speaker 4: used to be the mid level film. Now it's ten

196
00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:47,640
Speaker 4: parts or eight parts, yes, and probably more quality in

197
00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,840
Speaker 4: a lot of levels. You know, ridiculous quality. The quality.

198
00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,960
Speaker 4: You can't argue with the quality. No, no, although the

199
00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,559
Speaker 4: hbos and the whatever are not what they used to

200
00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:57,800
Speaker 4: be because of who's buying them.

201
00:09:57,840 --> 00:09:59,040
Speaker 3: Now that's what's changing.

202
00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,240
Speaker 4: Like who's you know at and t own Time Warner

203
00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:04,640
Speaker 4: and that was a train wreck, and now we see

204
00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,319
Speaker 4: what's happening when the Discovery people come over and own

205
00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:09,680
Speaker 4: Time Warner. And I hate to say this, it's like,

206
00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,680
Speaker 4: you know, an owner or a manager of McDonald's taking

207
00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,719
Speaker 4: over the French laundry and let's get rid of the

208
00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:17,200
Speaker 4: HBO name and call it Max.

209
00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:20,160
Speaker 3: You're like, what are you guys doing? That's all changing.

210
00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:24,679
Speaker 4: Now, what's really changing is you have these legacy studios,

211
00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,160
Speaker 4: let's say Paramount. We know the history of Paramount, we

212
00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,160
Speaker 4: know the history of Warner Brothers. Just talk about those two.

213
00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,440
Speaker 4: And then you have these people that literally don't care

214
00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:38,120
Speaker 4: about the history buying these studios. They don't care about

215
00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:40,840
Speaker 4: the films. You see the Discovery Channel, people are trying

216
00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:44,240
Speaker 4: to do the Turner classic movies. And so the danger

217
00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:48,200
Speaker 4: now and our business is people buying these companies that

218
00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,000
Speaker 4: have no respect for the history of the legacy of

219
00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,920
Speaker 4: the brand, and that's what's turning upside down, turning the

220
00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:54,840
Speaker 4: business into garbage.

221
00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:55,920
Speaker 2: You now, that's a good point. Yeah.

222
00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,679
Speaker 1: Like I said, I got to hit through because I

223
00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:00,920
Speaker 1: have so many questions, but I made a pact on

224
00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,160
Speaker 1: myself to stay focused because there's certain things I really

225
00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,960
Speaker 1: want to ask you. You and your brother did the

226
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,960
Speaker 1: Book of Eli. You worked with Denzel Washington? Yeah, what

227
00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,440
Speaker 1: was that experience like being I know you're such a

228
00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,520
Speaker 1: fan of cinema. I know you're you grew up a fan.

229
00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,800
Speaker 1: You know, when you're working with Denzel? That was years ago?

230
00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:21,040
Speaker 1: Now how many years ago?

231
00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:21,280
Speaker 2: Is that?

232
00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:21,480
Speaker 1: Ten?

233
00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:22,320
Speaker 3: Thirteen years ago?

234
00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,440
Speaker 1: Okay, thirteen years ago? What was it like to work

235
00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:29,040
Speaker 1: with Denzel Washington? What is it like working with him

236
00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,319
Speaker 1: as an actor? What is it like transferring your brain

237
00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,560
Speaker 1: from I'm working with Denzel to now I'm directing Denzel?

238
00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,000
Speaker 1: And how do you direct Denzel Washington? Just give me

239
00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:39,600
Speaker 1: your whole Denzel experience?

240
00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:41,280
Speaker 4: How do you know to ask that question, because that

241
00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,040
Speaker 4: is the question, the last one you just said, how

242
00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,160
Speaker 4: do you direct Denzel Washington. I'm not gonna even call

243
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,000
Speaker 4: it a Jedi mind trick because you're not playing any

244
00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,280
Speaker 4: mind tricks in The Ultimate Pimp. He's just got that

245
00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:57,479
Speaker 4: kind of social IQ. He's got that otherworldly emotional intelligence.

246
00:11:58,160 --> 00:11:58,280
Speaker 1: Uh.

247
00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,320
Speaker 4: While we were uh up in the script for Book

248
00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,000
Speaker 4: of You Lie, it was a script and then Denzel

249
00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:08,280
Speaker 4: came on. He was magical, like in the we would

250
00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:10,520
Speaker 4: go to his poolhouse and just break the script down.

251
00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:11,120
Speaker 3: Magical.

252
00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:15,440
Speaker 4: But when it came time to role film, he, as

253
00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,439
Speaker 4: he says, goes between his ears and I'm you know,

254
00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:19,960
Speaker 4: the first day, I'm like, what's up. He's not the

255
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:24,160
Speaker 4: same guy. He just goes in and he does his thing.

256
00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:28,200
Speaker 4: But to his credit, to me, pound for pound, when

257
00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,560
Speaker 4: you look at the stat sheet, I think he's the

258
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,120
Speaker 4: greatest movie star of his generation.

259
00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,680
Speaker 2: I totally agree. I totally And I'll.

260
00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,160
Speaker 3: Draw a parallel Tupac in a second, but go ahead, No.

261
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:44,040
Speaker 1: I agree because when you look at the charisma, the looks,

262
00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:49,720
Speaker 1: the talent, the longevity of the talent.

263
00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:54,680
Speaker 4: That's right, the gravitas, theatrical Broadway actor, right, twenty million

264
00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,240
Speaker 4: dollar payday actor, and he's black, so you can only

265
00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,559
Speaker 4: compare him to like mel Gibson and his rhyme because

266
00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:04,000
Speaker 4: Tom Cruise is more of a movie star.

267
00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:04,160
Speaker 2: You know.

268
00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:05,680
Speaker 3: And Tom can act too, don't get me wrong.

269
00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,600
Speaker 1: Act, but he's not at the consistent level of Denzel.

270
00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:10,760
Speaker 1: Why he doesn't try to do that? No, and I

271
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:11,800
Speaker 1: don't think he can do that.

272
00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:15,240
Speaker 4: No, No, but mel Gibson was the close, you know,

273
00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:19,160
Speaker 4: like mel Gibson's a real act before all the I.

274
00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,520
Speaker 1: Don't want to digress because I'm like, oh, you're bringing

275
00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:23,880
Speaker 1: up mel Gibson and shit.

276
00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:24,760
Speaker 3: Who else can you go?

277
00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:26,880
Speaker 4: Because I don't want to get in trouble because I'm

278
00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,160
Speaker 4: a film director. Like when you look at the eighties

279
00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:34,520
Speaker 4: and nineties, Daniel day Lewis, okay, Daniel da Lewis. My

280
00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:39,280
Speaker 4: only challenge with Daniel is it's always antiquated roles, you know,

281
00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,439
Speaker 4: like turn the century rolls. Look at Johnny Depp's career,

282
00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:47,000
Speaker 4: an incredible, dynamic, interesting career. I don't know if Daniel

283
00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:48,720
Speaker 4: day Lewis can do that. I don't know if Daniel

284
00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:52,360
Speaker 4: day Lewis can do what mel Gibson did or Denzel Washington,

285
00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:53,880
Speaker 4: but I don't know if they can do what he did.

286
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,800
Speaker 4: So it's apples and oranges. To answer your question about

287
00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:02,600
Speaker 4: directing Denzel, it's so so I to Tupac, you know,

288
00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:07,120
Speaker 4: like no batteries required, no direction required, you know, like

289
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:09,680
Speaker 4: you don't need to do much with those guys.

290
00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,240
Speaker 2: Come with When what is his process as on the set?

291
00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:15,680
Speaker 1: You mean you're fucking me up here because you said,

292
00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,880
Speaker 1: like in the Poolhouse, we're breaking down the script before

293
00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:20,720
Speaker 1: we go to the process on the set when he's

294
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,520
Speaker 1: breaking down the script, talk to.

295
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:25,240
Speaker 2: Me about that, like, what do you remember?

296
00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:26,840
Speaker 1: I know it's a while ago, and I know you're

297
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,520
Speaker 1: not taking notes at the time on you know, for

298
00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,920
Speaker 1: this podcast, But like his understanding of a scripting character,

299
00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:35,840
Speaker 1: how is he articulating that he told?

300
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:37,480
Speaker 4: You know, he's going to be mad at me for

301
00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,200
Speaker 4: outing him on this one because this is hilarious. But

302
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,680
Speaker 4: he taught me a lot about a leading man's role

303
00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:47,040
Speaker 4: in developing the script once he comes on, you know,

304
00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:49,360
Speaker 4: like me and my brother made some critical errors and

305
00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:53,840
Speaker 4: debt presidents. I feel with Lorenz Tate's character, you never

306
00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:58,760
Speaker 4: put your protagonist in a position of getting dissed and

307
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,680
Speaker 4: not going back and and hit you know, his payback,

308
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:03,520
Speaker 4: you know when Cuddy did that thing to him, like

309
00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,520
Speaker 4: Denzel would never have that. And Denzel used to sit

310
00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,440
Speaker 4: and we were this is hilarious. He would at one

311
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:14,800
Speaker 4: point he was stopped and he would count pages one, two, three, four, five, six, seven.

312
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:20,520
Speaker 4: That's seven pages. The money's not on the screen. What

313
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:22,640
Speaker 4: are you talking about? The seven pages? The money's not

314
00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,600
Speaker 4: in the screen. That's seven pages. He's his character's not

315
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,560
Speaker 4: on screen. That's a no no. And like classic Clint Eastwood,

316
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:35,280
Speaker 4: you know, like this is the anti hero spaghetti western,

317
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:39,320
Speaker 4: our post apocalyptic or even training day. You know, that's

318
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,440
Speaker 4: seven pages. He's not on the screen. And it never

319
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,320
Speaker 4: came across like self centered or narcissistic. It came across

320
00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,960
Speaker 4: like a real like science to the way you do

321
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,840
Speaker 4: these things. And he was really wonderful with like understanding

322
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,480
Speaker 4: what made a scene work or not work? This needs

323
00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,000
Speaker 4: a button right here. He did a lot of writing

324
00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,520
Speaker 4: on the Gary Ohman role. He would play it out

325
00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:03,680
Speaker 4: in front of him Carnegie and book at Eli. Denzel

326
00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,120
Speaker 4: would because Gary Ollmen wasn't hired yet. In fact, it

327
00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,400
Speaker 4: was Denzel's idea. He goes you know it would be

328
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,520
Speaker 4: great for this Gary Olemen, and he would play it

329
00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,600
Speaker 4: out like he was Gary Olemen, and he would improvise.

330
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:15,880
Speaker 4: And a lot of Gary's lines in the movie was

331
00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,920
Speaker 4: Denzel punching the script up in his poolhouse while we

332
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,200
Speaker 4: were wood shedding it. So he's a wonderful writer. The

333
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:26,040
Speaker 4: scene where he understands he inhabits the other role, he

334
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,600
Speaker 4: and knows what to do with his role, and he

335
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:31,560
Speaker 4: knows when the scene's working or not, and he knows

336
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,720
Speaker 4: how to I don't know, he didn't force it. He

337
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:39,000
Speaker 4: was incredible. He was incredible, and he was incredibly collaborative.

338
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,000
Speaker 4: That's why he was so shocking the first day of

339
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,640
Speaker 4: shooting when he became a different version of himself.

340
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:46,240
Speaker 3: And now I understand why.

341
00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:47,000
Speaker 2: I love this.

342
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:51,320
Speaker 1: I love this when you're working with him on set

343
00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:56,080
Speaker 1: is he I worked with Samuel Jackson, and he is

344
00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:00,360
Speaker 1: when I worked with him, he knows it he wants

345
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,480
Speaker 1: to do and he just does it over and over

346
00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:06,919
Speaker 1: and he smacks it, smacks it, smacks it. And that

347
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,280
Speaker 1: was just a little film that I did with him.

348
00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,360
Speaker 1: Gary Olman seems like he might be like where he's

349
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,160
Speaker 1: trying different things and you could talk about Gary Oleman

350
00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,880
Speaker 1: two within this is Denzel, and then you could also

351
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,840
Speaker 1: talk about Gary Oleman is Denzel like this is how

352
00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:27,720
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do the scene. I'm locked in and I'm

353
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:29,560
Speaker 1: just gonna kill it, kill it, kill it. Or is

354
00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,080
Speaker 1: he one of these where you hear about actors choices

355
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,120
Speaker 1: finding it, which was said maybe Daniel day Lewis might

356
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,160
Speaker 1: be like, I don't know. I know when I worked

357
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:41,600
Speaker 1: with de Niro, he's ramping up during it. What is

358
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,160
Speaker 1: Denzel's sort of process with it within a scene that

359
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,000
Speaker 1: you know, it's written, it's rehearsed, he's shooting.

360
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:48,800
Speaker 2: What is his process like within the scene.

361
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,200
Speaker 4: It's pretty dialed in at that point, you know, I'm

362
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,960
Speaker 4: want to say more. He's especially on Bookie Eli, he

363
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:57,080
Speaker 4: was in his Eastwood mode where it's like to take

364
00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,320
Speaker 4: Jake okay, and now I pushed the third one because

365
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,359
Speaker 4: that is a role of like subtlety and not a

366
00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,680
Speaker 4: lot of what he's known for talking. It's not a

367
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,640
Speaker 4: lot of talking. There were scenes where he would get playful.

368
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,639
Speaker 4: But I found it amusing because the first day that

369
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,760
Speaker 4: we had to rehearse with Gary Olmens was Gary omens

370
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:21,320
Speaker 4: big first big scene where he apprehends Denzel and brings

371
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,800
Speaker 4: him his hinchman, bring him into the office. So we're

372
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,520
Speaker 4: at the end of a shooting day and Gary Olmen,

373
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,800
Speaker 4: who I adore, he's sick and he is such a

374
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:30,560
Speaker 4: sweetheart too.

375
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,359
Speaker 2: He's sick. Does he is he underrated?

376
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,879
Speaker 4: He's definitely not overrated, you know, you know in the

377
00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,040
Speaker 4: early nineties we knew I don't know.

378
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,000
Speaker 3: Well, I think he's gotten his due now, thank.

379
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:44,040
Speaker 2: God, he's got I think we forget about him.

380
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,359
Speaker 1: He's almost like talk about basketball like you talk about

381
00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:46,760
Speaker 1: point guards.

382
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:47,480
Speaker 2: He's almost like Rod.

383
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,399
Speaker 1: Strictly'd be like, oh yeah, Rod is crazy, but you

384
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:55,640
Speaker 1: might talk about magic Isaiah Stephes.

385
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,280
Speaker 2: And then you'll go, oh, you know Rod. Oh right.

386
00:18:57,720 --> 00:18:58,640
Speaker 2: Gary Omens like.

387
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:02,240
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, he's that's right, that's right. There's a table

388
00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:04,400
Speaker 4: that's his desk. We're at the end of the day,

389
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:06,960
Speaker 4: but we have to rehearse the big scene that's up

390
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,840
Speaker 4: the next day. And Denzel, you know, he's stealing this,

391
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:15,600
Speaker 4: you know in the book, Eli closed and Gary starts going,

392
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:16,960
Speaker 4: all right, so what if I did this?

393
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:19,879
Speaker 2: And he starts walking that way, and he close the

394
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:20,760
Speaker 2: chair and goes, what if.

395
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,960
Speaker 4: I did Denzel's got a scripts in his hands, and

396
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,480
Speaker 4: then Gary goes. You see you see Gary like work

397
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:31,159
Speaker 4: in the space, trying to figure out the physicality of

398
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,360
Speaker 4: being the man that's in power of this town and

399
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:40,560
Speaker 4: having this guy captured Eli and Denzel's holding the scripts,

400
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,000
Speaker 4: and after five minutes you just see his shoulder slump

401
00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:44,760
Speaker 4: and he puts them down and goes, shit, I got

402
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:47,280
Speaker 4: We're gonna do some work right now.

403
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,919
Speaker 3: Because Gary was really meticulously working.

404
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,200
Speaker 4: And to Denzel's credit, you know, it was Denzel's idea,

405
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:55,760
Speaker 4: which I love to ask Gary to do the role,

406
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,480
Speaker 4: but I didn't think he bargained on such a detail.

407
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,479
Speaker 3: Freak and Gary Wood.

408
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,760
Speaker 4: Once we started shooting, Gary would want to try different

409
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,639
Speaker 4: things and do different things, and I love that about actors.

410
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,000
Speaker 4: I love that Gary. Gary had this thing he used

411
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 4: to do. I used to adore. We do two takes,

412
00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,400
Speaker 4: we do three takes, you know, maybe around the fourth,

413
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,520
Speaker 4: I go ahead, play with it, Gary, And he played

414
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 4: with it and I yelled cut an he go.

415
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:24,159
Speaker 3: Like he he would he.

416
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,640
Speaker 2: Would always want one more. And I love that.

417
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:28,600
Speaker 4: I loved it. And the other thing I love about

418
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,199
Speaker 4: Gary is I hate doing ad R. What does that

419
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:37,399
Speaker 4: stand for? Audio dialogue? That's when in the movies where

420
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,520
Speaker 4: say Michael has a line and there's a helicopter, we

421
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,479
Speaker 4: have to go have him coming in recording studio and

422
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:44,440
Speaker 4: re record his line.

423
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,200
Speaker 3: It always sucks to life out of the performance.

424
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,560
Speaker 4: To me, Gary Omen was the first actor I've ever

425
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:51,320
Speaker 4: seen make the performance better in Ado.

426
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:52,879
Speaker 2: I heard that. I heard that about him, and I

427
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:54,800
Speaker 2: also heard that about al Pacino Loves.

428
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,600
Speaker 4: It didn't one hundred percent of Scarface was looped. One

429
00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 4: hundred percent of the dialogue and scar Face was a

430
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,400
Speaker 4: d R because he couldn't nail the accent, and some

431
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,480
Speaker 4: say never did, but we love it on the set.

432
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,919
Speaker 3: Wow, I love how much you love your craft.

433
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 2: I mean I love it.

434
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 4: You become such a personality. You know, your personality is

435
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,120
Speaker 4: aclipsing you as an actor. And that's saying a lot,

436
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 4: because you're a fucking vet.

437
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 2: It's a lot, you know.

438
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,879
Speaker 1: I was watching yesterday, and again I don't want to

439
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:24,959
Speaker 1: get sidetracked. I was watching because I just signed up

440
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 1: for the Criterion Collection app.

441
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 3: The digital one.

442
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, because remember when it was laser disc.

443
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:32,359
Speaker 1: I know, because I remember when I had the Minuce.

444
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 1: Let you know, it was like everything, you know.

445
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 3: It was loved that. I love smelling them.

446
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 1: And we go to Virgin on Sunset. I mean, I'd

447
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 1: be in there, You'd see everybody in there.

448
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,960
Speaker 4: Virgin was the one on Sunset, was the one that

449
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 4: was it, That was the one.

450
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:51,159
Speaker 1: But I was watching Yesterday Dog Day Afternoon, and I

451
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 1: was just kind of sometimes I put on movies almost

452
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,479
Speaker 1: as background music, like I watch a scene, but I

453
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,119
Speaker 1: was bugging off of that whole movie, and I was

454
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,840
Speaker 1: bugging off of app and I was bugging off of

455
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 1: like I was watching and his performance is so kinetic

456
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,639
Speaker 1: and so frenetic, and I was like, I need to

457
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 1: ask him, and I wonder if he was able to

458
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 1: remember because it's so long ago for us, we're still

459
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 1: you know, and obviously he knows the but I was like,

460
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,680
Speaker 1: because it was so alive, and at that time, acting

461
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 1: was just coming out of the rigid, you know, and

462
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:25,359
Speaker 1: and Marlin and James Dean, they were, you know, in

463
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 1: Denier Row and James con they were sort of changing acting,

464
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 1: and I was like, what was going on in al

465
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,360
Speaker 1: Pacino and Sydney Lamett that they were like, we want

466
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,840
Speaker 1: to go for this because that's like a documentary performance.

467
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 2: His performance is a dog day ol in Dog Day. Yeah,

468
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:43,679
Speaker 2: that's amazing. It's crazy.

469
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 3: It's such an unusual movie to the premise of it.

470
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 1: The whole thing and the transsexual and like, but the

471
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 1: whole thing. I was fucking off it again, and I've

472
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 1: bugged off it for years.

473
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 4: How about the same guy that's playing that mousey character

474
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 4: or Cirproco. I think al did something I've never seen before,

475
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 4: and he doesn't get credit for it because of the

476
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 4: huah and the chewing the gum now and all that, right,

477
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 4: is how's that mousey guy and dog Day, Tony Montana?

478
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 4: The way Scarface moves, the way he talks when he

479
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 4: gets out of that car and puts the gun in

480
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:22,440
Speaker 4: the back of us when he's going into the.

481
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 3: Motel, like, just everything about me, Like, how is that?

482
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 1: Michael Corleone and Michael Colinone is super still, you know,

483
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 1: he's very I.

484
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 4: Don't think I gotta be real again. Let's jump to

485
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 4: Daniel day Lewis, who is one of the greatest actors

486
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 4: of the past century. Right, I'm talking about one hundred years,

487
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 4: not just this century. Right, I've never seen Daniel make

488
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 4: you know, From Michael Coleone to Tony Montana, that guy's

489
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 4: some next that's just next level shit with alb was

490
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,919
Speaker 4: the movement you know a lot of these actors, I

491
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:55,360
Speaker 4: feel like.

492
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 2: And where was the inspiration coming from? Where was that

493
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,119
Speaker 2: coming from? Just to like this is what I'm going

494
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 2: to do with acting? Do you know what I'm saying?

495
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 2: It was like this wasn't theater.

496
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 1: This is accomplishable on screen coming out of the wooden

497
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: you know, like this is like yo, they're bringing like

498
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 1: a whole new language to.

499
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 4: I don't think Betty Davis gets enough credit either, you know,

500
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 4: I don't think Betty Davis gets enough credit. We're talking

501
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 4: about the we give brand to a lot of credit,

502
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 4: but when you watch Betty Davis's career arc as an

503
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 4: actress and her subtlety in the way she she changed

504
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:28,879
Speaker 4: the game, she doesn't get enough credit.

505
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 3: I don't feel.

506
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 2: I agree.

507
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: When you're working with actors and they get stuck or

508
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 1: it's not the sound that you want, or they're not

509
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,120
Speaker 1: hitting it, how do you move them?

510
00:24:58,280 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 2: Direct them?

511
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,199
Speaker 1: U You talk about Jedi mind tricks, you know, you know,

512
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 1: for me, it could be simple as go faster.

513
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,199
Speaker 2: All right, I'll go faster or go slower.

514
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: Okay, I'll go because you know, like a lot of

515
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 1: people that have never acted, we think directors are almost

516
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: like like I've never had some sort of grandiose directing

517
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: where it's like this introspective therapy thing.

518
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 2: You know. I was listening to William freaking.

519
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 1: He was talking about working with Tommy Lee Jones versus

520
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 1: Benicio adultro Wo. Benicio in real life is out to

521
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: lunch in the best way, and you know, as an actor,

522
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 1: he was saying, he's doing this and he's gotten these,

523
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: he's written biographies about the thing, and Tommie Jones is

524
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 1: is coming on the set and he's just boom bobo.

525
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 1: And it's similar to what you're saying about Gary Oldman

526
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: versus Denzel. But when you're working with an actor that's

527
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: stuck and it's not getting what do you try to

528
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: do and how do you try to do it?

529
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 3: That's a great question, isn't it.

530
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 4: What do you Allen says like that too, go faster,

531
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 4: go slower, or that's anything but.

532
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 2: What she just did.

533
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm by nature super empathic, so I can feel

534
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 4: usually what's going on. And you know, it's interesting, you

535
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,679
Speaker 4: know this, Michael, Sometimes it's just the word you're like,

536
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 4: take that word out or take that sentence out. You're

537
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 4: getting hung up on that. Or I'll just come and

538
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 4: touch them, you know, or you know, I go, hey,

539
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 4: let's go over here, we'll go have some One time,

540
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 4: I took an actress who shall rename nameless for a

541
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 4: walk around a big New York City block, like, and

542
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 4: halfway through she got nervous, like, why aren't we walking

543
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 4: off set?

544
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 2: What are we doing?

545
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 3: I can just tell her nerves where, you know, like

546
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 3: she just needed a hot walk.

547
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 2: You know.

548
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 4: Other times I've taken actors into the trailer and in

549
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 4: the case of Debt Presidence, that just playing Isaac Hayes

550
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 4: track or something just to catch this vibe right here.

551
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 4: So you know, it's like anything. Everyone is so different.

552
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 4: And I want to be clear, this is not a comparison,

553
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 4: but it's gonna seem like a comparison. When we did

554
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 4: American Pimp, there was the documentary about pimps, which I

555
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 4: didn't mention. There was this discussion because there was this

556
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,239
Speaker 4: whole thing that TIMPs can turn out any girl, and

557
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 4: your pimp pant is like this on each girl. And

558
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 4: when you talk to these pimps, and they were honest.

559
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 4: The quote is you got a pimp on each bitch accordingly.

560
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 4: I mean, one may like to go to fucking Coney

561
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 4: Island and ice cream cones, and the other bitch you

562
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 4: gotta take the movie theater, and you know, the other

563
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 4: one you just take. She likes to go and walks

564
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 4: in the park and you know, get them a little

565
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,639
Speaker 4: daffy duck thing with the pedals on it, you know.

566
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 4: And I'm like, who would ever thought that they are

567
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 4: this nuanced? Because each girl is a different animal. But

568
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 4: movies and culture would have us believe that those guys

569
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 4: are just doing this and it's like writing, acting, producing, directing.

570
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 4: Everyone's a different animal. Every athlete has a different cocktail.

571
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 4: When Tiger Wood's wife ran them down with the golf

572
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 4: club and car hit the tree, and she insisted he

573
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 4: get into sex rehab and he had to stop taking

574
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 4: his Viking in and stop drinking his vodka, what happened

575
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 4: to his game?

576
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 3: Everyone has a cocktail list.

577
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 2: When he when he stopped fucking, when he stopped sucking the.

578
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 1: Wait staff with apple BEEAs things went awrye he.

579
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 4: Needed those white women viking in in vodka.

580
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 1: Let's let's open up the red lobsters and let Tiger

581
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 1: get back to where I mean, cut the bullshit.

582
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 4: How about how about when Tiger became like not the

583
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 4: black trick, but the Asian trick.

584
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 3: When when you know, we all have tricks.

585
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 4: There's the white trick, the Black trick, the Asian trick,

586
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 4: the Latin trick, like all different types of tricking. When

587
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 4: the girl released the voicemail, he's like, Hello, this is Tiger.

588
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 4: My wife's got my phone. Can you not call anymore?

589
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 4: I'm like, dude, dude, when you breathe, she knows who

590
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 4: it is. Okay, just say don't say anything, Just get

591
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 4: rid of the phone.

592
00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 2: That's it.

593
00:28:58,640 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 3: I'm gonna get in trouble with Tiger.

594
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 2: Now.

595
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: Do you keep in touch with any of the pimps

596
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: that you had in the documentary?

597
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 2: Was her name again, American Pimp? Do you keep in.

598
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: Contact with any of the pimps that you guys portrayed

599
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: in American Pimp.

600
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 4: Because most of them moved to Vegas and it used

601
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 4: to be called carpet pimping, the Vegas pimping.

602
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 2: I don't even know.

603
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 4: The Internet did the same thing the pimping that it

604
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 4: did to the record business completely At the same time,

605
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 4: it happened to record business, and my dear friend Kenny

606
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 4: Red just passed away. The one with my mouth was

607
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 4: loaded like a gun. I can't even do it. Kenny

608
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 4: Red just passed away less than a year ago, and

609
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 4: he was really my lifeline to all that. I talked

610
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 4: to Gangster Brown all the time, the Vine Brown's pimp.

611
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 4: He really wasn't in the documentary, he was around the documentary.

612
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 4: So yeah, I keep in touch with those guys. You know,

613
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 4: you do documentaries. You know this too. They it becomes

614
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 4: your family. You've adopted into a family now, you know.

615
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 2: All right?

616
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:06,719
Speaker 1: Dear Mama five parts, ridiculously, so sick, so good. You

617
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: mentioned in the defiant ones when we're just talking you

618
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: mentioned the Arnold documentary. I noticed on the credits of

619
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: Dear Mama, and you said it in regards to producing

620
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 1: and writing the Arnold Schwarzenegger documentary.

621
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 2: What does that mean? Writing a documentary? What does that mean?

622
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm glad you asked them.

623
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 4: You go right to the heart of what it really

624
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 4: is like, because for so long there wasn't a credit

625
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 4: in documentary for writing. Right, what it means is like,

626
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 4: what is the theme and what are the sub themes sometimes,

627
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 4: as I say, are more important than the theme. And

628
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 4: when I'm interviewed with Michael Rapport, I talk to you

629
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 4: before I get on set, and I start telling you

630
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 4: kind of what I'm after, and I go, I'm after

631
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 4: this thing are you familiar with? For instance, in Defiant

632
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 4: ones before Snoops interview, I'm in a kitchen with Snoop

633
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 4: at the Chateau Marmant and the suite we're in, I

634
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 4: said you, this is when the beach deal is still fresh,

635
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 4: the cripwalk thing, and what happened?

636
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 2: I go, you know what happened? Though?

637
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 4: New Bridy goes what I go? When he did that,

638
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 4: they shaved three hundred thousand dollars off the three hundred

639
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 4: million dollars I'm sorry, three hundred million dollars off the deal.

640
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 4: It was a three point three million dollar deal.

641
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 2: Really wow? Wow? Okay.

642
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 4: Then when we get to the set, you know, he

643
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 4: has that famous moment He's like, hello, this is Apple, Yeah, nigga, Yeah,

644
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 4: save a few million off the deal.

645
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

646
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 4: And so you work with talent to see if they're

647
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 4: gonna if they're gonna adopt some of the That was

648
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 4: a pretty shallow example of like writing where you're like,

649
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 4: we need this moment, we need this thing. Let's talk

650
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 4: about this way. If I'm interviewing you too, you know,

651
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 4: I'll do a clinical interview and then I'll see I

652
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 4: go oh, there's something in there. I'll go back, I'll

653
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 4: pull that out and go all right, say that again.

654
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 4: But I need you to I need to hear this

655
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 4: word and this word you're not say. You got to

656
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 4: be more specific, right, So you start directing and writing

657
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 4: about like the beats of the story because my head's

658
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 4: like an avid or pro tools, whatever the fuck you

659
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 4: want to say. And more importantly though, it's when you

660
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 4: watch Dear Mama, you see a structure that's complexed. You

661
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,479
Speaker 4: see multi layers and timelines, and you're like, all right,

662
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 4: what narratives are we and what needs to go away?

663
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 4: So it's a you're putting so many index cards with

664
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 4: each story, with you know, outlines to you know, a

665
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 4: B C are way beforehand and in the archive of

666
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 4: the dialogue editing. My my partner, the lead editor and

667
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 4: my co writer, lass aarve a finished Gentleman the dialogue editing,

668
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 4: Doug praised to do this too, and the fine ones

669
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 4: like if you say a whole paragraph, how they finess

670
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 4: words out of your mouth and finesse ums and butts

671
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 4: into your mouth. Rearrange sentences so they're smoother, rearrange paragraphs

672
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 4: so they sing and have a melody, and the narrative

673
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 4: has no speed bumps. So it's all writing because you're

674
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 4: at the end of the day. To me, the thing

675
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 4: about writing is like, what am I saying? What is

676
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 4: my point of view? What is my thesis here? And

677
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 4: there's a moment in the middle of part four towards

678
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 4: the end of Dear Mama, where you see Tupac's drama

679
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 4: teacher Donald Hickins talking about him performing that Starry Night

680
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 4: by Dom McClain. But it's just a movement piece Tupac's

681
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 4: doing in class. And then you see the life of

682
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 4: the whole documentary forward and then you see Tupac and

683
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 4: slow motion you're still hearing and shock G's talking about

684
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 4: this is what you want out of the man. You

685
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 4: guys want to see a real nigga watch this, and

686
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 4: then it goes to hit him up. He had to

687
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 4: let brothers know I'm with you now I understand.

688
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 2: Is this what I have to do to get you

689
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 2: all attention? What you try to say to me, now

690
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 2: when you listen to him, how.

691
00:33:55,840 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 1: You suffered for your sanity, how you tried to set

692
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: them free.

693
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 2: They would not listen, and they did not know.

694
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 5: Perhaps they'll listening now, y'all like real niggas, that's what

695
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 5: a man is, all right, Watch.

696
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 4: This So you see the central thesis and dear Mama

697
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 4: in a nine minute real and it's heavily written.

698
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 2: Beforehand, yes, and through the process and.

699
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, when you yeah, and then you get a great

700
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 4: editor like like Lass and then who's an artist? And

701
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 4: then we've talked about this for years. We had the

702
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 4: Don McClain and to hit him up kind of and

703
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 4: it was just a good showtime documentary version of it,

704
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 4: as I call it. I always say, is this the

705
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 4: showtime documentary version of it? Is this the HBO documentary

706
00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 4: version of it? Or is it transcended into like the cinematic.

707
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 4: So we had a showtime version of it for many

708
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 4: months and then you know, he cut a wild hair

709
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 4: up his ass and went in one day and the

710
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 4: one that's in the movie right now, which is my

711
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 4: favorite nine minutes in the movie. But again, it's a

712
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 4: lot of writing, it's a lot of discussing the way

713
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:15,959
Speaker 4: we talk, the way we're talking right now. You're doing

714
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 4: that constantly, so you're honing it, honing it in the

715
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 4: case of Arnold, and I shut the fuck up.

716
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 2: No, no, you could please go ahead.

717
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 4: I love all that, and I love this with like

718
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 4: legendary subjects too. Towards the end of the documentary, I go, Arnold, listen,

719
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 4: you have such a rich life. I actually told him.

720
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 4: I say, I know this thing with the housekeeper and

721
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,720
Speaker 4: your son, it's tough, but it actually makes your story

722
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 4: richer because if without it, it's just German white man.

723
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 3: When when when.

724
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 2: We know Arnold, we would all come out yeah.

725
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 4: And but you know, like it's like one of Muhammad

726
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 4: Ali got knocked out by Joe Frasier knocked down, knockdown.

727
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, come on, that is down. That was sacrilegious

728
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,720
Speaker 4: of me. Knockdown, knockdown and got up.

729
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 2: And got up.

730
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 4: But that's when America started connecting to Muhammad Ali. People

731
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 4: think that we always loved him. We didn't always love

732
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 4: him as Americans.

733
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:09,839
Speaker 3: Right.

734
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 4: My point is, I said, Arnold the last act of

735
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 4: this documentary, you're uniquely positioned to speak to preserving democracy

736
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,320
Speaker 4: here and abroad because.

737
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 2: Of what you were born into.

738
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 4: Right, And he never really talked about this before the

739
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 4: losing side of World War Two, these broken men coming back, abusers, alcoholics.

740
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 2: They were with the Nazis, right, Yeah.

741
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 4: And his speeches he makes to the Charlottesvield like he

742
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 4: was doing this, He goes on camera, talks directly to

743
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,399
Speaker 4: him about being on the losing side of that ideology.

744
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 4: His January sixth speech to those rioters, when he goes

745
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 4: and vicious Auschwitz and does all these things with the

746
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 4: what's the museum in La Los Angeles?

747
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:54,720
Speaker 2: Sorry, the Holocaust Museum.

748
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, But my point is is that I said, let's

749
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 4: focus the last act about fighting for preserving democracy. We

750
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 4: don't need to mention Trump. He's a symptom of something. Right,

751
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 4: Let's talk about your climate activism. And then, you know,

752
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 4: because he's seventy five, he's losing friends and the preciousness

753
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 4: of life and what love means. Right, So instead of like,

754
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,479
Speaker 4: there's so many things we could focus on, we start

755
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 4: focusing on this guy and we start dialogue again. So

756
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 4: now again you're you're writing the truth. You're writing now

757
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 4: because you're like the last ten minutes of this documentary

758
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 4: needs to be about preserving democracy here and abroad, period.

759
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 2: And now that I'm asking that question, the reason why

760
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 2: I'm because because so on sophisticated the way I talk

761
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:35,720
Speaker 2: about it.

762
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 1: No, no, you're you're doing it very very basic way, and

763
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: unsophisticated is good because like most people are not film bakers.

764
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: So I want to make it under like plain, like water,

765
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,839
Speaker 1: like water, because if you're doing a documentary in more

766
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: real time, verite, like when I was doing the Tribalilm,

767
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: I was like, because when I see right I'm writing,

768
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, fuck it.

769
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:56,879
Speaker 2: Maybe if I wrote it wouldn't.

770
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 1: Have been as hard, but I felt like because in

771
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 1: real if you're doing something in real time, you can't

772
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: write it.

773
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 2: It sort of takes you.

774
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 4: But you were writing it because you were editing what

775
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 4: you had and you were listening to your gut and

776
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 4: you had a point of view and your point of

777
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:13,879
Speaker 4: view to me.

778
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 2: But my point of view went left once I got.

779
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 4: Yeah with that, and again it always changes it only

780
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 4: but you jumped on the horse of that dynamic of

781
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 4: those two guys, Yes, and you could have gone a

782
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 4: different direction. Yeah, And you got really in the inner

783
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 4: workings of that relationship, and you rode that horse to

784
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:34,879
Speaker 4: end and then you made decisions.

785
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 3: I'm cutting this out. I'm leaving this in.

786
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 4: I'm highlighting this thing when Q Tip talks about that,

787
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 4: and when my man's talking about his diabetes, I'm not

788
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 4: get rid of that part. Put this part that's writing.

789
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 2: I got you.

790
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: How did the film come about? How did Dear Mama

791
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 1: come about? Did they approach you? Who approached you? How

792
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 1: long had it been an idea before you started making

793
00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: the film?

794
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 4: There was another Pristine just filmmaker doing a feature version

795
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 4: doc on Tupac and had started down the road with

796
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 4: the estate and the family, and for some reason or another,

797
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 4: after a year, that didn't work out. And then I

798
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:12,800
Speaker 4: got called because I know a lot of the record

799
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 4: label there. Steve Berman from the label, who I go

800
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 4: way back with, obviously Jimmy, but Jimmy wasn't there.

801
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:17,919
Speaker 2: At the time.

802
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,879
Speaker 4: Peter Paternal, who's the Tupaca state attorney as well as

803
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,280
Speaker 4: doctor Dre's attorney and Metallica's attorney.

804
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 3: So I know these people.

805
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 4: Peter Paternal signed the first check from my first music

806
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 4: video that I met Tupac on for Raw Fusion. When

807
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 4: he used to run Hollywood Records in Hollywood basic Ed Disney,

808
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 4: he was the president, Peter Paternal So I got called

809
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,919
Speaker 4: from Peter. He's like, can you meet the Tupaca state.

810
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 4: Who's the Tom Wally?

811
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:40,399
Speaker 2: Oh?

812
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:41,240
Speaker 3: I know Tom Wally.

813
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 4: He's the one that called me when Tupac wanted us

814
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 4: to do his music videos because Tom Wally was the

815
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 4: president of Interscope. So I went and met with him

816
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 4: and they it was like on a Wednesday. And I

817
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 4: didn't want to do it because I was on this

818
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 4: whole Marvin Gaye feature film path and I didn't see

819
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 4: doing a documentary. I don't think I want to do

820
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 4: it for a bunch of reasons, like the Fine Ones

821
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 4: almost killed me. I don't know if I want to

822
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 4: get into like me and Tupac at it all. And

823
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:10,839
Speaker 4: I said, but give me three days to think about it.

824
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 4: And I called him back Friday and I said, I'll

825
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 4: do it under one condition, if we can do it

826
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 4: multiple parts, and it'd be as much about a Fannie

827
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 4: Shakur as it is about Tupac.

828
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 2: And they said done.

829
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 1: And how much did you know about a Fanny's story?

830
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 1: Because you know, I was thinking again when I was

831
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: going to interview you we heard Tupac talk about his mom.

832
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 2: You know, I don't remember how much we learned after

833
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 2: he passed. We heard. You know, I remember growing up

834
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 2: in New York.

835
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 1: You know, this guy's cousin is in the Black Panthers,

836
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:43,839
Speaker 1: and it was just sort of vague. You couldn't look

837
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 1: things up the way we could look things up now

838
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 1: as a kid, especially a white kid. But you know,

839
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: I go to school with this and you're like, oh,

840
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 1: his father was in the Black Panthers, and then you know,

841
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: and then you hear Tupaca's mom was like what did

842
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: that mean?

843
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 2: Because her story on it so on.

844
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, like I said from the beginning, it's

845
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: as much as inn a Fenni documentary, because you really explained,

846
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: like how smart, strong, resilient, flawed and brilliant of Fannie is.

847
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: How much did you really know about her life before

848
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 1: you started making the film. The details of taking on

849
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 1: the court. You know, Tupac will talk about, you know,

850
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: my mom went to court and you know, got the

851
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 1: Black Pants represented herself right while I was in her belly,

852
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 1: and you'd.

853
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 2: Be like, is this really true? Is this? And then

854
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 2: you're like, yo, in this documentary you really see it.

855
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 2: That's right detailed. I mean it sounds so fantastical. It

856
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 2: sounds like yo, really you know, like okay.

857
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 3: I was cultivated in prison?

858
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, Like was it like was it

859
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 2: a traffic ticket? And like no, this wasn't no traffic ticket. Yeah.

860
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 4: She was facing three hundred and sixty years in prison

861
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 4: in a famous case called the Panther twenty one trial

862
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,800
Speaker 4: with twenty some other of her comrades. They were accused

863
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 4: of plotting to blow up sites and department stores and

864
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 4: the what's the zoo or were there the botanical guards

865
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, the Bronx potanical guards. Yeah, and they were

866
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 4: accused of plotting to blow up like I don't know

867
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 4: how many different eight locations something like that. And she

868
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 4: represented herself. Now, what I knew before I did this

869
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 4: documentary was what we all knew. I knew the song

870
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 4: Dear Mama. I knew she struggled with addiction and overcame it.

871
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 4: And I knew she was a former panther.

872
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 3: That was it.

873
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 1: That's vague, right, that's it when you talk about like

874
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 1: former panther.

875
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:33,359
Speaker 2: That's it.

876
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 4: I mean when you watch the film, you see how

877
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 4: ahead of her time, she was crazily wow, and she

878
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 4: should be on the mount rushmore of civil rights leaders,

879
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 4: just the loan by virtue of just how she represented

880
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 4: herself and got them off here in Manhattan in the

881
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 4: same courthouse that Tupac was tried in for the assault case.

882
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:55,280
Speaker 2: Which is insane.

883
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: And that cut, you know that part of the film,

884
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: You're just like, there's so many goosebumps moms in the film.

885
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 2: As a viewer, how about that one.

886
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:04,399
Speaker 3: I never talked about it much.

887
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:09,320
Speaker 4: The way the FBI turned the East Coast faction of

888
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 4: the Panthers against the West Coast and the West Coast

889
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 4: and had them in fighting, and it was like hip

890
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 4: hop crazy. It was the same exact thing going on

891
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 4: with the Panthers, which, if you think about it, Michael,

892
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 4: the Panthers really were hip hop, and you look at

893
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 4: their attitude or swagger, the way they dressed, the way

894
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 4: they moved, all of it was a precursor to hip hop.

895
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 4: And you look at the way the FEDS worked them

896
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 4: like that. Now, people might say it's conspiracy theory. People

897
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 4: might have their own feelings about what happened with rap

898
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 4: in the East Coast West Coast thing. I think the

899
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,360
Speaker 4: media had more to do with that than any FEDS,

900
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 4: But who knows, who knows?

901
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, it's true.

902
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: I just think that was such a just a couple

903
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 1: of egos that got way out of hand.

904
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 2: When I look at it, I think that's what I think.

905
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 4: You know what, The people got to remember this, and

906
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:02,439
Speaker 4: you remember this because you were living in real time.

907
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 4: We were living in real time when Cube left. God

908
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 4: blessed Cube. That just saw him in a car with

909
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 4: Tucker Carlson. Another we could go on, the world is

910
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,399
Speaker 4: just upside down right now? Did you see that video

911
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 4: of him in Tucker Carlson? I like it though it worlded.

912
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 4: We got to get to that because I want to

913
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 4: know why you like it. But Cube left in wa

914
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 4: no Vassiline, one hundred miles of running. Everyone kind of

915
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 4: felt at the time. No one talked about it. It

916
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 4: was WWF. It felt real. But you also know no

917
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 4: one had been killed. There were some scuffles with you

918
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 4: know Entourage's cut to when hit him up came out.

919
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:46,319
Speaker 2: He knew it.

920
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 4: There's something about this because the power of that kid,

921
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 4: the power of Tupac. It was I remember Jimmy I

922
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 4: being playing me the track before it came out, I

923
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 4: go him and Tupac and or SUGD.

924
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 2: Would be dead in less than six months. And he

925
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 2: was like, why you say that?

926
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 4: And it wasn't the words, it was the energy, the

927
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 4: power of how he did it, particularly the outfro I said.

928
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 4: And see, people forget we hadn't lost any stars to

929
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 4: gang violence or shooting, so it wasn't a reality to

930
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 4: us until it happened.

931
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 1: And we're talking about star. I mean, this was a

932
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: everybody knows that.

933
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 4: These guys, these guys and I don't want to because

934
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna name names. I'll get in trouble with

935
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 4: other iconic, legendary gazillionaire rappers right now. But when you

936
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 4: shoot the two A plus students in the class, the

937
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 4: C minus student starts to rise to the time right

938
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 4: and the C minus student is a working motherfucker and

939
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 4: really got great.

940
00:45:53,120 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 1: Podcast, the archival footage, the music, the b roll, the

941
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 1: aside from all the interviews you shot. Did they give

942
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 1: you access to everything because that stuff costs money? Yeah?

943
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 2: Yeah? Did you?

944
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: Was that one of your precursors to do the film,

945
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 1: because when you did The Defiant Ones, there again there's

946
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,280
Speaker 1: goosebump moments in that like, I'm.

947
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:28,879
Speaker 2: Like, what the fuck is going on?

948
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,800
Speaker 1: Even like I'm not even a Bruce Bringsteen fan or

949
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 1: Tom Petty fan, but when there's footage of them in

950
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 1: the studio, I'm like, this is crazy. Yeah, you know,

951
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 1: And the the NWA footage in the studio, I was like,

952
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 1: this is what is happening here?

953
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 2: So was that?

954
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: Is that one of your precursors to doing a documentary

955
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 1: of this size, Like I need access to everything clear beforehand.

956
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 4: Absolutely with Tupac too, the most important thing was getting

957
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 4: access to the writings, you know, whether it's the poetry,

958
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 4: the lyrics, whatever, getting access to the a cappella, which

959
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 4: the estate was very sensitive about and they they would

960
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 4: fight every yard of that anytime I wanted to pull

961
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 4: the acapellas. To their credit, they were like, what are

962
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 4: you doing if this gets out? You know some DJ

963
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 4: you know they're very precious about and they didn't quite

964
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 4: understand what I was doing at first. I'm like, we

965
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 4: gotta take him raw and take Atticus and Claudia and Leo,

966
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 4: my composer's compositions, and bring him to Grandma. I always say,

967
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 4: we need to make sure Grandma understands Tupac and we

968
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 4: got these beats behind it. No one's gonna understand it,

969
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 4: and it's not going to be as intimate and emotional move.

970
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 6: It's a copulated as that. It's pretty closer to and

971
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 6: break an early death.

972
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:41,359
Speaker 2: Now it's yester life.

973
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 6: There was no mercy on the streets. I couldn't rest.

974
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 6: I'm barely standing about to go to pieces streaming piece,

975
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 6: and so my soul was deleted.

976
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 2: I couldn't see it.

977
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 3: I had a mind full of Denon's trying to break street.

978
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:54,240
Speaker 6: They played it scenes and they had fuck in the flame.

979
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,799
Speaker 6: It's something I bring like a match, such a dirty game,

980
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,760
Speaker 6: no memory. It's just to miss a ready in the picture,

981
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 6: and it means killing me and my sake. Well, I's

982
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 6: a vibe to the moon and to see the sun.

983
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 6: Please don't forgive me for my sins, because hear I come.

984
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 4: So we had to excavate all those and in that journey, Michael,

985
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:16,879
Speaker 4: we found you see in the opening ten minutes him

986
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 4: mumbling between dear Mama versus, because this is he's mumbling

987
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 4: a whole other verse that's actually not in the song.

988
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 5: Dear Mama, Free you from your cage full of rage,

989
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 5: because this is what the good days. And even though

990
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 5: your loane man, you're more than the mother, you're my

991
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:38,919
Speaker 5: home man, it's no way I could play your back.

992
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 5: My plan is to show you what you don't understand.

993
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:43,800
Speaker 2: Dear Mama.

994
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,320
Speaker 4: I left it in there and the opening credit sequence,

995
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 4: yes of it right, So you find other moments that's

996
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 4: him because he's shot so sort of in the dark

997
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 4: like him. Yeah, I was like, that's literally him. I

998
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 4: cheated the moment. He's not singing dear Mama there, but

999
00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 4: I cheated it, and he goes and you left you

1000
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 4: in your case full of rage, and then then you

1001
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,399
Speaker 4: molding my mama, you're my home and he's singing, he's

1002
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 4: doing a whole other verse that is was muted on

1003
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 4: the track. So we discovered things like that. There was

1004
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 4: another thing you mentioned, archival as you've seen in the

1005
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 4: last five to eight years, archival as scene work. Archival

1006
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 4: as scene work had never really been done.

1007
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:26,720
Speaker 2: Explain what you mean by that, n WA.

1008
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 4: In the studio making Fuck the Police, we discovered that

1009
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 4: footage a gentleman by the name of Steve Janno who

1010
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 4: used to do the swap met Asian gentleman who died

1011
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 4: while I was making the Fine Ones. His wife Dre

1012
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 4: was just getting ready to talk to him. We found

1013
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 4: this treasure trove of footage like halfway through the process.

1014
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,919
Speaker 4: So you see in Defiant Ones they're trying to get easy.

1015
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 4: You've seen it famously in the movie Straight at Comptent,

1016
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 4: but we actually have the scene of him trying to

1017
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 4: get easy to rap by that time. It's a fuck

1018
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 4: the police, I believe. And you see ice Cube, you

1019
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 4: see DC and you see them there doing the skit opening,

1020
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 4: fuck the police. Judge j residing in the case of

1021
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 4: n W A versus the police department, they got the

1022
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:16,479
Speaker 4: footage of it.

1023
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 6: Free resigning in the case of NWA versus the police department,

1024
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:26,439
Speaker 6: prosecuting attorney's all mc fan, ice Cube and easy.

1025
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 2: Motherfucking e wait a minute, hold it, hold it holder.

1026
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 6: In the court, ice Cube, take the motherfucking stand this

1027
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 6: sweat to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing

1028
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 6: but the truth.

1029
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 2: So health your black ass, the god damn right. We

1030
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 2: want you tell everybody what the fuck you gotta say.

1031
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 4: So you you got to learn the massage, like into it,

1032
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 4: drop the audience off into it, and cut it as

1033
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 4: an actual three minute scene. And when you have like

1034
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 4: we're talking about Tom Petty, there was not only that

1035
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,399
Speaker 4: Tom Petty. There was that take where Jimmy was working

1036
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 4: with Stevie Nicks on her album and she was clearly

1037
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 4: a little out of it and they were having some

1038
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,760
Speaker 4: difficulties in her and Jimmy getting a spat and Jimmy's

1039
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 4: doing his little s fing galley thing with her. That's

1040
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 4: a scene, yeah, you know, So you start to isolate

1041
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 4: these archival bits and you go, all right, this is

1042
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,399
Speaker 4: a two minute scene. And what we learned is it's

1043
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 4: way more powerful sometimes than an actual film because it's real, yo.

1044
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 2: I mean, and also we know the songs.

1045
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:26,279
Speaker 1: We know this, and when you're hearing them, like you know,

1046
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:30,760
Speaker 1: working me, it's just you're just like I call them

1047
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:33,319
Speaker 1: for me as a director, but also as if you

1048
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 1: were goosebump moments.

1049
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:36,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, goosebump moments. Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

1050
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:40,800
Speaker 1: So when you have I mean, we've there's been great

1051
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 1: documentaries about Tupac. There's been some really really strong documentaries

1052
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:50,879
Speaker 1: about Tupac. When you're watching the archival footage and this

1053
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 1: making of footage and you're getting the a cappellas and

1054
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 1: the outtakes. What do you remember as one of your

1055
00:51:56,600 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 1: first goosebump moments as a director, We're like, oh shit,

1056
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 1: I didn't see this.

1057
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 2: I didn't know this existed.

1058
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: Like I'm hearing like a bad take of dear mom

1059
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 1: or I'm hearing a bad take of a trapped you know,

1060
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 1: like him screwing up when he's doing Brendan's Got a Baby.

1061
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 2: Do you remember when you were like, what the fuck?

1062
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 4: Like the one that stood out the most, and this

1063
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 4: is a trip of Tupac and a Fannie Shakur. There's

1064
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 4: probably five photos that exist of the two of them together,

1065
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 4: and most of them are owned by a woman that's

1066
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 4: upset with the family in the state and has history

1067
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:34,839
Speaker 4: with Tupaca and Afani, so we couldn't get most of them. Damn,

1068
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 4: that's go easy, so that there's like five photos of

1069
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:38,399
Speaker 4: the two of them together, and.

1070
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 1: Explain as a filmmaker how frustrating that is, because it

1071
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 1: becomes the worst.

1072
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:45,279
Speaker 4: It's the worst when you left with two barely of

1073
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:47,240
Speaker 4: the two of them. Because I don't like to repeat,

1074
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:49,720
Speaker 4: keep coming back to the same photos like a cheap

1075
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 4: of VH one documentary, right, sorry VH one.

1076
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 2: No, but I know I got you, So check this out.

1077
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 4: The thing I do that I discovered them defining ones

1078
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 4: is and it's the way I discovered what I sense

1079
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 4: of coin the empathy cut, which is everyone's ripping off now,

1080
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 4: which is the subject sitting there listening to the other subject,

1081
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 4: and you're seeing the uncomfortable moments in between the moments. Right,

1082
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 4: every docum I've seen, fucking Holocaust documentaries and PBS using

1083
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 4: this technique. Now it's just gotten out a hand, right.

1084
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 4: But The Fine Ones was the first documentary to decant.

1085
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 4: As I say, because I discovered this, bear with me,

1086
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 4: because I'm going through the archival. I discovered this when

1087
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:30,959
Speaker 4: I went to up to Bruce Springsteen's house. I said,

1088
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 4: how am I going to these legends they don't give

1089
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:36,239
Speaker 4: a fuck about me? How am I going to find

1090
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 4: a human being? So I would roll cameras before they

1091
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:41,359
Speaker 4: were miked up. This chair would be empty, and then

1092
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 4: you would see him come in. I didn't know, I

1093
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 4: didn't know the times I used some of that stuff,

1094
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:46,840
Speaker 4: but I would use the moments in between. You know,

1095
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 4: when Bruce was doing this and he seems like he's

1096
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 4: listening to Landau or Jimmy and whatever. We start developing

1097
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:57,720
Speaker 4: this thing called an empathy cut. I also would whatever

1098
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:01,760
Speaker 4: iconic music video, I would go into the raw footage

1099
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:03,840
Speaker 4: and go to the left of the iconic moment or

1100
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 4: to the right of the iconic moment where the artists

1101
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 4: in that rock star suit, you know, that thing that

1102
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 4: we love, and you go, what is that the moment

1103
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:14,399
Speaker 4: before the You know, like it's surreal because you've never

1104
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 4: seen these moments before. The goosebump moment for me was

1105
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:20,320
Speaker 4: when I discovered footage from the I Get Around video

1106
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:24,879
Speaker 4: and they were at lunch having a barbecue. Tupac had

1107
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 4: his shirt off, he's eating barbecue, and there's a fanny

1108
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:31,760
Speaker 4: laid right next to him and they're just chilling together.

1109
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:36,400
Speaker 4: And sixteen millimeter it was all of eight seconds, but

1110
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:38,799
Speaker 4: in the film it feels like a lifetime the way

1111
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,680
Speaker 4: we use it, because there's no moving footage of the

1112
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 4: two of them together. There was no none that existed,

1113
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 4: So you go and do these Unfortunately, like I was

1114
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 4: trying to always find the outtakes of California Love so

1115
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 4: I can do raw. I liked in these documentaries, you go,

1116
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 4: all right, that one shot at Tupac we love. I

1117
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 4: didn't like the way Tupac was lit in California Love

1118
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 4: because it came from under and he looked a little weird. Sorry, Hype,

1119
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 4: you're the dopest at music videos. But the dopest no one,

1120
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 4: not even Hype Williams. No one had the outtakes of

1121
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:13,279
Speaker 4: California Love. I had the outtakes of Brenda's Got a

1122
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:18,400
Speaker 4: Baby clearly, which I've been directed, which I directed, We've brother,

1123
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 4: me and my brother, my brother and I And then

1124
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 4: I had the outtakes of Trapped. So you saw that

1125
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 4: in there, and I think that's really talking about goosebump moments.

1126
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 3: Again.

1127
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 4: When you have like iconic people doing iconic imagine doing

1128
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:35,080
Speaker 4: a documentary about Scarface and finding the outtakes of the

1129
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:37,799
Speaker 4: Chainsaw murdercy, that fucks you up.

1130
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 2: When you see shit like that, you know, fucks you up.

1131
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:43,360
Speaker 1: I know you're not glorifying it because I've watched the

1132
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,360
Speaker 1: interviews while you were doing press the first round for

1133
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 1: Dear Mama. Remind people of your relationship with Tupac from

1134
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:56,840
Speaker 1: the inception. Just give context of your relationship with Tupac.

1135
00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 1: Going back to the Dear Mama, the trap, the Brenda's

1136
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:02,959
Speaker 1: Got a Baby video, just to give context of it.

1137
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 4: We met Tupac. We were in San Francisco on our

1138
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:09,440
Speaker 4: first music video. It was a group called Raw Fusion,

1139
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:12,760
Speaker 4: which is a spin off group of Digital Underground Money

1140
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 4: Bee the rapper and DJ Fuse right, the white Yeah

1141
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 4: who played the cop on all the music videos. We

1142
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 4: were just ass a cop And when we went to

1143
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:25,200
Speaker 4: it wasn't a waffle house, was like an ihop. It

1144
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:28,279
Speaker 4: was all of Digital Underground shock g. Everyone was there

1145
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 4: and there was this kid at the end of the

1146
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 4: table that was snapping on everybody and one of the funniest,

1147
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:34,680
Speaker 4: most charismatic.

1148
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 2: People I'd seen in a long time.

1149
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 4: And it was a young Tupac pre Tupocalypse Now is

1150
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:42,399
Speaker 4: debut album, which was in the can. I just didn't

1151
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 4: know that that film Juice was in the can. I

1152
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 4: just didn't know that. So he's an unknown person at

1153
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 4: that table. The guys know he's got an album coming out.

1154
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:53,759
Speaker 4: The guys know, but they don't know what Juice is

1155
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:57,760
Speaker 4: or isn't. And I remember just being taken with him,

1156
00:56:58,000 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 4: and I remember going to the restroom and him coming

1157
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 4: and shortly after and saying that he saw our short films,

1158
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:05,840
Speaker 4: these little super a films we did. That's how we

1159
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:07,800
Speaker 4: got our first music video. Goes, I'm gonna have you

1160
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 4: guys direct all my first music videos. I'm like, I

1161
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:13,320
Speaker 4: was already enamor with him, but I didn't believe them.

1162
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 4: And the next day was the shoot. Me and my

1163
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:19,439
Speaker 4: brother were so excited we didn't sleep that night and

1164
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 4: we you know, back then, you would do little scenes

1165
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 4: before the music video, right, so you could show that

1166
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 4: you're a real director, right, And I kept going, where's

1167
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 4: Tupac worre's Tupac? I waited for Tupac was like thirty

1168
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 4: minutes late, and I put him in the middle of

1169
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 4: the scene and then we rolled camras. So I knew

1170
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 4: there was something going on with this guy for me

1171
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 4: to wait on our first music video for him to

1172
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 4: come and put him in the scene when he was

1173
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 4: not a celebrity at the time. And sure enough, Tom

1174
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 4: Wally of Inner Scope Records two weeks later calls us

1175
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 4: and says, can I tety We weren't known as the

1176
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 4: Hughes brothers, like the Hughes twins. Guys, Yeah, Tupac, can

1177
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 4: you come in? Like you could tell? They were like,

1178
00:57:55,800 --> 00:58:01,640
Speaker 4: we're nineteen, go now Tupac's nineteen You guys are children exactly,

1179
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:06,440
Speaker 4: We're kids. And then when you cut to them, Mike go,

1180
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 4: what happened with us in Tupac? When you cut to

1181
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 4: I don't want to jump too far ahead. I got

1182
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 4: to remind people a generation before, you're lucky. If you're

1183
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 4: a young Black male and you're going to college, let

1184
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 4: alone record deal, movie deal, getting famous and the egos

1185
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 4: that come with that. In what transpired was because because

1186
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 4: we were all so young, but we became quick friends

1187
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 4: we did. I would pick them up, me and my

1188
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 4: brother pick them up from the Burdbank Airport. It felt

1189
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:40,920
Speaker 4: like the better part of a year. It probably was less,

1190
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 4: if you know, when you're young, it felt like three years.

1191
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 4: We were really close, and we did his first music video, Trapped.

1192
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 4: We did his second music video, Brenda's Got a Baby,

1193
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 4: which is like the crown jewel for all of us.

1194
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:57,480
Speaker 4: And then by the time we got to My Homies Call,

1195
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 4: we were having problems in a relationship. It was his idea,

1196
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:02,440
Speaker 4: he kind of directed it, but our name was on

1197
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 4: it and he had agreed because New Line Cinema for

1198
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 4: our first feature film, Menace, Society says, will green light

1199
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 4: your film if you get a platinum recording artist. He

1200
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 4: wasn't platinum at the time, but he was big because

1201
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 4: Juice had come out now, and he agreed to come

1202
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 4: on for a small role to help the film get made.

1203
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 1: There's so much a lot in it. A lot, it's

1204
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 1: a lot. It's a lot. You say something in the film.

1205
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 1: You say something because you wound up sort of interviewing

1206
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:35,479
Speaker 1: yourself or being interviewed by I can't remember the guy who.

1207
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:37,480
Speaker 3: Sorted atertering Gregory, his manager.

1208
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 1: But you talked about when you were shooting Brenda's got

1209
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:45,640
Speaker 1: a baby in the long lens, and the talk about

1210
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 1: what you saw that made him special.

1211
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 3: You know, it's your money man.

1212
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 4: It's like having worked with him for a few months

1213
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:57,400
Speaker 4: already at that point Juice had come out, I believe,

1214
00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:00,439
Speaker 4: yet at that point now by Tom at the Prince

1215
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:04,880
Speaker 4: of Baby, and there was a moment where he's sitting

1216
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 4: down with a little baby girl and the camera was

1217
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 4: up here and looking down at him, and I remember

1218
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:13,080
Speaker 4: I went into the eyepiece and mind you, I've known

1219
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 4: him for a few months now, and I went, oh shit,

1220
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:20,320
Speaker 4: I just jumped back off the eyepiece because I finally

1221
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:25,760
Speaker 4: saw like this thing, this unquantifiable thing that's called being

1222
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 4: a rock star or a movie star. It's an aura,

1223
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:32,400
Speaker 4: it's structure, it's your eye. Who knows what the fuck

1224
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 4: that thing is?

1225
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 3: Right?

1226
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:36,960
Speaker 4: But I felt it then and that's when later on

1227
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 4: the street we started doing this. The camera was just

1228
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:42,959
Speaker 4: swimming over his features and doing weird op twose things,

1229
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 4: and I remember in the edit, Tupac was like, what

1230
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:46,400
Speaker 4: is that? Cut that out?

1231
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 3: Guys, like why are you doing that?

1232
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 4: And we turned it at our shitty version of that's

1233
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:54,080
Speaker 4: art Tupac, you know, and somehow he let us keep

1234
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 4: it in because he was so powerful that you could

1235
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 4: just linger on his eye or on his lip, or

1236
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 4: on his neck or whatever it was. But I didn't

1237
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 4: know it until we shot that black and white music video,

1238
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 4: how powerful and like Denzel. I don't believe I ever

1239
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 4: had to tell Tupac anything except for like, just favor

1240
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 4: over here a little bit more. And I doubt I

1241
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:20,440
Speaker 4: had to say that, because he's if you see him

1242
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 4: in that video, you see him in any video. And

1243
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:26,640
Speaker 4: I think he came with this, there's three cameras here.

1244
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 4: He's acutely aware of even then, even then, like advanced

1245
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 4: in that way because I remember when we work with

1246
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:38,320
Speaker 4: hip hop artists, most of them didn't understand what actors understand.

1247
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:40,479
Speaker 1: To be honest with you, I didn't really start paying

1248
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:43,040
Speaker 1: attention or understand the camera for a while. And that's

1249
01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 1: kind because I was like, I don't care about the camera.

1250
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 1: You know, you could have you know, it's just good.

1251
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:49,000
Speaker 2: It's a good.

1252
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:52,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, my shit, that's a great. It's the sea word,

1253
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:56,040
Speaker 1: it's charisma. It's an intangible thing.

1254
01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 4: It's why someone asked me yesterday, go, why are we

1255
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:02,200
Speaker 4: still talking about this guy? I said, Mike Tyson says it.

1256
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:05,880
Speaker 4: He says, I've been around all around the world. He

1257
01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 4: goes DNA, the children's soldiers in Africa, what was tupac

1258
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:13,959
Speaker 4: l like ten year old with machine guns? They came

1259
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:18,320
Speaker 4: and speak English. They feel him, They feel him.

1260
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:20,880
Speaker 2: That's what made him the best. That's what Gat and

1261
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 2: you were talking about. Can you feel me? You know

1262
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:22,800
Speaker 2: what you like?

1263
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:26,120
Speaker 1: You know you could feel him. That was that was

1264
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 1: his thing. You know, he inspired me so much as

1265
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:34,360
Speaker 1: an actor because even his music and his acting. But

1266
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:37,320
Speaker 1: you know, because it was like that, you know, he

1267
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:39,600
Speaker 1: wasn't you know, who know what he would have grown into.

1268
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 1: But he wasn't the most technical actor during his till

1269
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:45,840
Speaker 1: twenty five, but you could feel him like he didn't

1270
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 1: have like a proper New York accent as Bishop and Juice.

1271
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:51,720
Speaker 1: But it didn't matter.

1272
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:56,080
Speaker 4: It didn't matter, and we got robbed of probably the

1273
01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 4: career that would have really defined him, which was as

1274
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 4: a great actor hundred percent.

1275
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:03,200
Speaker 1: When we talk about we talk about Pacino. When I

1276
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 1: saw him in Juice, I was bucking off of him

1277
01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:07,200
Speaker 1: because I was like.

1278
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:09,120
Speaker 2: Yo, this is to me. It reminded me of Johnny

1279
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:11,200
Speaker 2: Boy and Mean Streets. Oh wow, de Niro.

1280
01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 1: You know, it's like he was just this unhinged, raw, emotional, unpredictable.

1281
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:22,000
Speaker 1: And when you see de Niro in that first scene

1282
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 1: talking to Harvey Kaititel in Mean Streets and he's talking, oh,

1283
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:28,440
Speaker 1: the bankers and broke, there's almost I don't know if

1284
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:30,840
Speaker 1: this is true, but you almost see Harvey Kattell going

1285
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:33,120
Speaker 1: like what the fuck, like like.

1286
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:36,600
Speaker 4: That's right, He's you know, you're tuning into something that's

1287
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:39,560
Speaker 4: almost hard to harness that level of.

1288
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 1: And in that scene, you know, Omar, he's looking who knows,

1289
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 1: but you almost see cutaways of old more Apps going

1290
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:50,120
Speaker 1: like yo, like this dude's playing at different speech.

1291
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:55,960
Speaker 4: Straight up, you know, almost like I'm an actor, you know,

1292
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:57,240
Speaker 4: like he's doing his job.

1293
01:03:58,080 --> 01:04:00,760
Speaker 2: But this is small shit, you know.

1294
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 4: You know, Tupuc even broke a rule and it's still

1295
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 4: worked in the scene at the locker room, I mean

1296
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 4: at the locker I'm sorry, not the locker room. He

1297
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:11,920
Speaker 4: broke a rule. And I hate when bad guys do this.

1298
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:15,240
Speaker 4: I hate when bad guys are aware that they're crazy,

1299
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:17,560
Speaker 4: because real bad guys are not aware that they're crazy.

1300
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 4: And he actually says the line, what's the line I'm crazy? No,

1301
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:25,040
Speaker 4: because you told me I was crazy, and you know

1302
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 4: what I am, and I don't give a fuck, right

1303
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:34,400
Speaker 4: like he writing wise a cardinal sin was broken, right then?

1304
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:38,160
Speaker 4: You don't write a guy to say that. But he

1305
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:43,440
Speaker 4: pulled it off one hundred percent. He tried one hundred percent. Wow,

1306
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:45,680
Speaker 4: one hundred And I was a young actor at the time,

1307
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:48,080
Speaker 4: and you know, I was just like, yo, this dude.

1308
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 1: And I was a fan of his music and I was,

1309
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:52,440
Speaker 1: you know, when I come around, get around. But when

1310
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:54,600
Speaker 1: he did Juice, I was like, Yo, this is this

1311
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:57,240
Speaker 1: is nuts. This performance is nuts. And this is when

1312
01:04:57,280 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 1: I'm a young actor, you know, I'm salvating off of

1313
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:01,600
Speaker 1: other because I was like, this is crazy.

1314
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:04,600
Speaker 4: By the way, let's talk about this. And there's some

1315
01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 4: friends I can bring up right now and name names.

1316
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:09,440
Speaker 4: But of young black actors at the.

1317
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 2: Time, Lorenz killed it, Yeah, no doubt.

1318
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 4: But if Tupac were in minutes like he was supposed

1319
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:18,680
Speaker 4: to be, it would have thrown the access off one.

1320
01:05:18,680 --> 01:05:21,240
Speaker 1: Hundred, especially for the character that he was going to be,

1321
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:24,280
Speaker 1: which is the Muslim character. Right, But Lorenz had that,

1322
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:26,800
Speaker 1: you know, in Menace, You're like, what's happening here?

1323
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:31,160
Speaker 2: No doubt in my opinion. Thirty years later, is it

1324
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:33,160
Speaker 2: Lorenzo is still type cast?

1325
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:36,120
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, he never you know, it's Lorenz's.

1326
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:39,480
Speaker 1: We want to see him be like, he's got the looks,

1327
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:44,400
Speaker 1: but we're like, we want O Dog, we want killers, psychopaths, nuts.

1328
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:46,400
Speaker 3: He's laying in wait and he's been laying in wait

1329
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:47,040
Speaker 3: for thirty years.

1330
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:48,560
Speaker 2: I called him. He's laying in wait. He's this.

1331
01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 4: It's interesting too because Lorenz, unlike Tupac, was actually a

1332
01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:59,000
Speaker 4: child actor, right, and when he came into the role

1333
01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:04,360
Speaker 4: of O Dog, we had already exhausted all the because

1334
01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:07,800
Speaker 4: Odall was written for easy e we were really close

1335
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:11,520
Speaker 4: at the time that I developed the script, so we

1336
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:17,400
Speaker 4: were looking for a stocky, darker complexed, obviously muscly guy

1337
01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:20,120
Speaker 4: to play O Dog. And so when the casting director

1338
01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:22,960
Speaker 4: had exhausted two hundred people, he goes, all right, guys,

1339
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:24,400
Speaker 4: come in next week. I'm going to show you the

1340
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:27,200
Speaker 4: list of the guys I didn't want to show you.

1341
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:30,960
Speaker 4: And then comes this what I always describe as a

1342
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:35,280
Speaker 4: Disney kid. And from the word action, what you saw

1343
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 4: in the movie is what we saw in the audition.

1344
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:39,760
Speaker 4: I go, oh, I know who this kid is. This

1345
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:42,240
Speaker 4: is hip hop. You know when you're in the mirror

1346
01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 4: doing your favorite gangster rapper, you're inhibiting it in the car,

1347
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:47,040
Speaker 4: like you know that thing you.

1348
01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:48,400
Speaker 3: Do and you're an actor.

1349
01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:51,440
Speaker 4: He hit that shit and it didn't feel like acting,

1350
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 4: and he was doing the improv and it was more

1351
01:06:55,160 --> 01:06:58,240
Speaker 4: dangerous because he had the boyish looks and it felt

1352
01:06:58,280 --> 01:06:58,920
Speaker 4: more dangerous.

1353
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:01,200
Speaker 1: And then the crazy thing about Lorenz and I love Lorenz,

1354
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:04,760
Speaker 1: I love his brother. Lorenz hasn't aged at all. He

1355
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:06,600
Speaker 1: still looks like he's twenty five years old.

1356
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:07,840
Speaker 3: Caroline right here now.

1357
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:09,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, hairline went down?

1358
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:12,520
Speaker 1: No, nor I mean, this is black done crack He's like,

1359
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 1: give me a little wrinkle something, because you're like fifty

1360
01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:15,919
Speaker 1: years old now.

1361
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:18,920
Speaker 3: I remember Lorenz Lorenzo Menace.

1362
01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:20,800
Speaker 4: Lorenz still used to have to go to school with

1363
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:24,000
Speaker 4: the little kid, you know, little kid in Menace. You know,

1364
01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:26,040
Speaker 4: we would be into park like talking to some girls

1365
01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:28,360
Speaker 4: and shit, and I remember the I don't know what

1366
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:30,640
Speaker 4: those onset people are that coming in. You have to

1367
01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:33,480
Speaker 4: go to school kids, Lorenz the hours. Yeah, Lorenz, it's

1368
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:36,040
Speaker 4: time to go to school. And Lorenz pulls that Birst

1369
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:38,080
Speaker 4: size and I'm trying to hommer at home.

1370
01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:38,480
Speaker 3: Growl over.

1371
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 4: He keep that school shit because all of us were

1372
01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:44,360
Speaker 4: of age. He was the only one that was under eighteen.

1373
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:45,240
Speaker 4: He was seventeen.

1374
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:50,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, my god, that is crazy.

1375
01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:53,800
Speaker 2: Podcast.

1376
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:08,280
Speaker 1: All right, this could be my last question. You talked

1377
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:10,720
Speaker 1: about the A cappellas you know, and we talk about

1378
01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:15,120
Speaker 1: Goosebump moments as a filmmaker. Talk about Goosebump moments as

1379
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 1: an audience member. With the music sequences in this film,

1380
01:08:19,439 --> 01:08:24,200
Speaker 1: and like I said, you fired on all cylinders storytelling, visual,

1381
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:28,280
Speaker 1: you know, archival footage, but the thing that you did

1382
01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:31,679
Speaker 1: with the music sequences in this film, you know where

1383
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:36,240
Speaker 1: you're taking the A cappellas of actual Tupac. You're putting

1384
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:41,479
Speaker 1: your score, You're playing around with sound addition, like in

1385
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:45,240
Speaker 1: the America's Most Wanted with the bottle clinks and the toasting.

1386
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:49,639
Speaker 1: What is your inspiration for that? Because I've never seen

1387
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:54,719
Speaker 1: that before. And the rock Kim scene where he's rhyming

1388
01:08:54,800 --> 01:08:56,800
Speaker 1: this is I don't know if he's Tupac at this point.

1389
01:08:56,800 --> 01:08:58,559
Speaker 1: He's in high school at this point, what is your

1390
01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:02,920
Speaker 1: inspiration for removing? Like, where did you get that idea from?

1391
01:09:03,040 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 4: I just again, I'm an impath, so I just feel

1392
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:08,439
Speaker 4: things and they're not intellectual, and I go, we should

1393
01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:11,320
Speaker 4: try this in a case of a young Tupac way

1394
01:09:11,320 --> 01:09:14,200
Speaker 4: before he signed, He's seventeen years old doing Panther Power, right.

1395
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:19,240
Speaker 4: What's the remix of peyton Ful, the coal cut, yes,

1396
01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:22,559
Speaker 4: whatever mix, the famous one that has a gazillion samples

1397
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:26,200
Speaker 4: in it, by the way, And it was in an

1398
01:09:26,280 --> 01:09:30,720
Speaker 4: attempt to elevate Tupac because he was kind of elementary

1399
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:33,840
Speaker 4: at the time and not even a career. So you're like,

1400
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:36,559
Speaker 4: we got to make him feel doper than he really is.

1401
01:09:36,840 --> 01:09:40,400
Speaker 4: So let's put him to the Rock Kim remix of peyton.

1402
01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:43,800
Speaker 1: Ful and I'm telling you, I'm like, oh fucking shit, and.

1403
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:45,639
Speaker 4: Then you have to really and that's again my partner

1404
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:49,599
Speaker 4: Loss is really masterful at sliding and sinking and doing

1405
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:53,800
Speaker 4: this thing. Unfortunately, we could not license that track. Now

1406
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:55,799
Speaker 4: watch when I fall in love with something what happens?

1407
01:09:56,080 --> 01:10:00,760
Speaker 4: Because there's two hundred samples and no one agrees about

1408
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:03,439
Speaker 4: signing the record over for film. So I had to

1409
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:07,280
Speaker 4: go take a world class DJ and reproduce the actual

1410
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:09,879
Speaker 4: PAYD in full remixing pattern.

1411
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:10,840
Speaker 3: There you go.

1412
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:13,040
Speaker 4: Thank you for shouting him out, love Hi, because I

1413
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:18,439
Speaker 4: didn't sleep last night. He meticulously reproduced to REDJ that track,

1414
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:23,920
Speaker 4: and the reason why I did it was they were tall. MO.

1415
01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:26,519
Speaker 2: My homeboy Tupac, he's seventeen. It's just like rock him.

1416
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:29,320
Speaker 2: He said. He's better than right, better than Rock King

1417
01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:29,880
Speaker 2: right now.

1418
01:10:30,479 --> 01:10:32,840
Speaker 4: But in order for you to have what you refer to,

1419
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:36,400
Speaker 4: and it's literally is a goosebump moment, you gotta take

1420
01:10:36,479 --> 01:10:39,639
Speaker 4: that and put it under him so the audience can

1421
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:41,320
Speaker 4: feel what his homeboy's feeling.

1422
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:44,640
Speaker 1: Really the same is the American dream Ain't nothing but

1423
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:46,360
Speaker 1: another calculated.

1424
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:47,920
Speaker 2: Schemes again, a block shout off the.

1425
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:48,679
Speaker 4: Back in shade.

1426
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:51,760
Speaker 6: He denies the the future rob Our names you cant

1427
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:54,760
Speaker 6: my history, your mystery. But now I'll see the American

1428
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:56,879
Speaker 6: dream wasn't meant for me because Lady.

1429
01:10:56,760 --> 01:10:57,920
Speaker 2: Liberty is a hipocrisy.

1430
01:10:58,040 --> 01:11:01,280
Speaker 6: Lots of me, probably freedom at the case quality she

1431
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:02,040
Speaker 6: never gave me.

1432
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:04,040
Speaker 3: That's where the inspiration came.

1433
01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:08,720
Speaker 4: You're like, he's actually not quite near at all rock

1434
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:10,840
Speaker 4: him at the time. But in order for you to

1435
01:11:10,920 --> 01:11:15,439
Speaker 4: feel like his ascension is happening and it's this magical moment,

1436
01:11:15,479 --> 01:11:17,439
Speaker 4: you gotta take this classic track, same thing with the

1437
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:20,880
Speaker 4: stripping down and using the whatever it's more like again.

1438
01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:23,360
Speaker 4: I have this rule in the editing room. If Grandma

1439
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:25,920
Speaker 4: doesn't understand it, it's got to go. And there's a

1440
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:28,600
Speaker 4: thing I have in the editing room. I call it

1441
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:32,960
Speaker 4: the Wu Tang effect. Too many niggas. No one's gonna understand.

1442
01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:36,760
Speaker 4: It's a very racial thing. But it comes from you know,

1443
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:38,719
Speaker 4: come from a place of me knowing because I'm biracial.

1444
01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 4: I'm like, you got nine niggas on stage. This is

1445
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:45,240
Speaker 4: going to get confusing for the average audience, let alone grandma.

1446
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:50,400
Speaker 4: And so my rule is, if Grandma doesn't understand who

1447
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:53,599
Speaker 4: everyone in Wu Tang is, we got a problem. So

1448
01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:57,640
Speaker 4: it's always fidelity, Michael. I'm always not just like audio fidelity.

1449
01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:01,840
Speaker 4: I'm talking about like writing fidelity, narrative fidelity, finding a

1450
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:05,679
Speaker 4: melody in the narrative that a white eighty year old

1451
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:07,200
Speaker 4: grandma in Kansas can go.

1452
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:09,840
Speaker 3: I don't fuck with hip hop, but I feel.

1453
01:12:09,560 --> 01:12:11,760
Speaker 2: This right now. I understand, I understand this. This is

1454
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:12,559
Speaker 2: my last question.

1455
01:12:13,080 --> 01:12:14,800
Speaker 3: Who pleased the Wu Tang thing? Don't get me?

1456
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:15,280
Speaker 2: No?

1457
01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:19,719
Speaker 1: Who didn't you get to interview that you wanted to interview?

1458
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:23,000
Speaker 1: Jada doesn't do these documentaries. We all know her relationship

1459
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:27,560
Speaker 1: with Tupac. Kadata has never spoken on Tupac. Ernest Dickerson.

1460
01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:30,280
Speaker 1: I've never really seen him go into like that scene

1461
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:32,679
Speaker 1: of that scene and like what he I've never heard

1462
01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:34,559
Speaker 1: him tell, like what was that like when you had

1463
01:12:34,560 --> 01:12:37,720
Speaker 1: this actor on the set, Suge Knight? Who didn't you

1464
01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:40,080
Speaker 1: get the interview? Did you try to interview Kadata? Who

1465
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:42,040
Speaker 1: did you want an interview that you couldn't.

1466
01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:42,639
Speaker 2: I wanted to interview?

1467
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:45,800
Speaker 4: That was the one big disappointing one. But it was

1468
01:12:45,840 --> 01:12:48,080
Speaker 4: sweet because I met with her and she blessed the

1469
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:52,400
Speaker 4: project and she also like signed off on photos, so

1470
01:12:52,439 --> 01:12:55,439
Speaker 4: she was we had a meeting before I started shooting,

1471
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:58,559
Speaker 4: and she wanted to hear what the take was, but

1472
01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:00,840
Speaker 4: unfortunately she didn't want to and it's very private. So

1473
01:13:00,920 --> 01:13:03,240
Speaker 4: that was the one sug would have been interesting, but

1474
01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:06,519
Speaker 4: COVID hit and we couldn't get into the prison at

1475
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:11,840
Speaker 4: the time, of course, Jada, but I'm actually thankful because

1476
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:13,639
Speaker 4: at the end, I did want the women to tell

1477
01:13:13,640 --> 01:13:14,160
Speaker 4: the story.

1478
01:13:14,439 --> 01:13:16,679
Speaker 3: I wanted it to be a narrative told by the women.

1479
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:21,840
Speaker 4: So my original ambition didn't come to fruition, but it

1480
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:24,960
Speaker 4: enabled Glow to become the breakout.

1481
01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:29,720
Speaker 1: Says sister, who has mannerisms like tupacas. One time, she goes, well,

1482
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:31,519
Speaker 1: he wanted to tell this, and I'm like, that's like

1483
01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:32,120
Speaker 1: two points, you know.

1484
01:13:33,320 --> 01:13:37,679
Speaker 4: And she is a world class storyteller. And I don't

1485
01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:40,240
Speaker 4: know if she was that before. That wasn't her role

1486
01:13:40,280 --> 01:13:44,799
Speaker 4: in the family. You see her personality. She's like Richard

1487
01:13:44,840 --> 01:13:48,120
Speaker 4: Pryor meets an all blues man in Red Fox mixed

1488
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:51,240
Speaker 4: in the one and I love when I meet And

1489
01:13:51,280 --> 01:13:53,040
Speaker 4: I'll keep this shirt because I know we're wrapping up.

1490
01:13:53,040 --> 01:13:56,519
Speaker 4: It's like it gets mystical at a certain point. The

1491
01:13:56,560 --> 01:14:03,240
Speaker 4: way she articulates and talks about out and transcends.

1492
01:14:03,680 --> 01:14:05,640
Speaker 3: I love storytelling.

1493
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:07,360
Speaker 4: I love when you're in a mist of someone You're like,

1494
01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:11,439
Speaker 4: holy shit, Like this is next level right here with

1495
01:14:11,479 --> 01:14:14,519
Speaker 4: all this personality, all this humor. And she's not trying

1496
01:14:14,520 --> 01:14:15,120
Speaker 4: to be funny.

1497
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:19,000
Speaker 1: No, she's just a regular person straight up, all right,

1498
01:14:19,439 --> 01:14:23,320
Speaker 1: Alan Hughes, I can't urge people more hard enough to

1499
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:27,080
Speaker 1: watch that film, to watch The Defiant Ones, and I

1500
01:14:27,160 --> 01:14:30,000
Speaker 1: just wish you nothing but the best. I need more filmmaking,

1501
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:34,599
Speaker 1: more documentaries, more storytelling, more of your stuff as much

1502
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:36,599
Speaker 1: as you can, because I just love it and appreciate

1503
01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:39,840
Speaker 1: and respect it so much. And I appreciate you coming

1504
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:40,519
Speaker 1: on the podcast.

1505
01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:41,320
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.

1506
01:14:41,360 --> 01:14:42,880
Speaker 4: I flew all the way to New York to see you,

1507
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:45,919
Speaker 4: my friend dear Mama on Hulu.

1508
01:14:46,120 --> 01:14:47,200
Speaker 3: There's the plug.

1509
01:14:47,360 --> 01:14:49,800
Speaker 2: Five parts, this guy of Tupac.

1510
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:51,599
Speaker 3: I think you're the best that ever did this. I'mna

1511
01:14:51,640 --> 01:14:53,639
Speaker 3: be real with you for real.

1512
01:14:54,120 --> 01:14:56,639
Speaker 1: Because like I told you, I can't fond enough Iron

1513
01:14:56,680 --> 01:14:59,120
Speaker 1: Rapport Stereo Podcast, Alan Hughes, I'm out.

1514
01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:02,599
Speaker 4: And before out, when are you directing another documentary again?

1515
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:05,200
Speaker 2: Where you said Defining Ones almost killed you? Yeah?

1516
01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:06,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I was talking to my friend Roll I

1517
01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:08,559
Speaker 1: was like the reason why I haven't because the Tribe

1518
01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:09,840
Speaker 1: film almost killed me.

1519
01:15:09,880 --> 01:15:11,200
Speaker 2: I could feel it. They're rough.

1520
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:12,920
Speaker 3: How long did it take, by the way.

1521
01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:13,439
Speaker 2: Three years?

1522
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:14,679
Speaker 3: That's a real doc.

1523
01:15:15,360 --> 01:15:17,920
Speaker 4: There's three years, Michael. We need you back on the

1524
01:15:17,960 --> 01:15:19,440
Speaker 4: microphone with the documentary.

1525
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:22,760
Speaker 1: Talk about documentary filmmaking, almost like there should be a

1526
01:15:22,760 --> 01:15:25,320
Speaker 1: mental institution for all documentary filmmakers.

1527
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:26,720
Speaker 3: I checked in do I got to say one thing,

1528
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:28,000
Speaker 3: I know someone's coming upstairs.

1529
01:15:28,439 --> 01:15:31,559
Speaker 4: I literally checked into a place called Avalon after The

1530
01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:35,639
Speaker 4: Defiant Ones to Define Ones came out to lie twenty seventeen,

1531
01:15:36,120 --> 01:15:39,839
Speaker 4: I checked into a rehab for thirty days in August,

1532
01:15:40,120 --> 01:15:44,000
Speaker 4: a rehab in Malibu for drugs and mental problems. I

1533
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:46,719
Speaker 4: wasn't on drugs, but I had for thirty days.

1534
01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:50,680
Speaker 1: I totally understand. They're not fucking fun to make. That's

1535
01:15:50,680 --> 01:15:52,640
Speaker 1: why I don't understand how you did it. But you

1536
01:15:52,680 --> 01:16:00,120
Speaker 1: gotta watch it. I told you, I told you it

1537
01:16:00,280 --> 01:16:03,720
Speaker 1: was good, and I know it was good. Like I said,

1538
01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:09,240
Speaker 1: you are only as good as your guests. I want

1539
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:13,840
Speaker 1: to thank Alan Hughes for breaking every single thing down

1540
01:16:15,160 --> 01:16:16,640
Speaker 1: absolutely positively.

1541
01:16:16,720 --> 01:16:20,240
Speaker 2: Watch Dear Mama on FX.

1542
01:16:20,360 --> 01:16:25,080
Speaker 1: It's so great. Watch The Defiant Ones rewatch Menace to Society,

1543
01:16:25,200 --> 01:16:29,400
Speaker 1: re Watch the Book of Eli, rewatch Dead Presidents Alan.

1544
01:16:29,439 --> 01:16:31,679
Speaker 1: Who's thank you for being on the Iron Rapport stereo podcast.

1545
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:34,439
Speaker 1: I'm ount Miles, Joann Ak, The Bleach Brothers aka the

1546
01:16:34,520 --> 01:16:36,200
Speaker 1: Dust Brothers. Take me at it, what's something real?

1547
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:36,679
Speaker 2: Nice?

1548
01:16:37,200 --> 01:16:39,519
Speaker 1: Take me out of what's something real now, but most importantly,

1549
01:16:39,760 --> 01:16:44,080
Speaker 1: end this museum quality Iron Rapports stereo podcast off with

1550
01:16:44,240 --> 01:16:46,479
Speaker 1: something real bunky, I'm out.