1 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties, weekly podcasts featuring conversations with 2 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 3 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,760 Speaker 1: Cynthia Littleton, co editor in chief of Right Today. My 4 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: guests are the two top leaders of Talent Agency A 5 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: p A. Jim Gosnell is CEO and Jim Osborne as President. 6 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: The Gym's as they're known at the agency, are leading 7 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: the company into its sixtieth year in three with big ambition. 8 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: A p A has added fifteen agents and counting to 9 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: its ranks. Amid all the disruption across the ten percentury business, 10 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: most specifically the shakeout from CIA's acquisition of I c 11 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: M Partners. With w E, CIA and U t A 12 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: now firmly entrenched as Hollywood's Big three, A p A 13 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: sees a moment to grow to become the full service 14 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: alternative for working Hollywood. The big swing for the coming 15 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: year is a far cry from where they were in 16 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: the fall, when the business was shut down and the 17 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 1: outlook was gloomy. Agencies at that time were already reeling 18 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: from the battle over packaging with the Writer's Guild of America, 19 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: but investor Ron Burkel of U KAIPA companies came into 20 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: the picture for a PA around that time. He's now 21 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: given them the financial foundation to go for it. Because 22 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 1: Nell and Osborne are candid about where they see opportunity 23 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: for a p A. They also dishebit about their vantage 24 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: point on the Justice Department's probe of the agency business 25 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: as part of the CIA I c M review. That's 26 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: all coming up after the break. Streaming has become the 27 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: new TV today. 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What do you see on 37 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: the horizon? What gave you the encouragement to go after 38 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 1: bringing in people from the consolidation of CIA and I 39 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: see them earlier this year a lot of good people 40 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: were on the market, and a lot of them have 41 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: come to a p A well. I think you know, 42 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,519 Speaker 1: first of all, if we were all sitting around to 43 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: three years ago and I said that is going to 44 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: buy I c M, everybody would have said, you're out 45 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: of your mind. That's not going to have been all 46 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: of that. What we saw this tremendous opportunity and we 47 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: weren't going to let opportunity go by without striking. And 48 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: what basically happened is we knew a lot of the 49 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: agents that we brought in, we weren't sure that they 50 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: were going to be making the journey to see a 51 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 1: whether they wanted to or didn't want to, or weren't 52 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: going to be invited. However they did that. But no 53 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: matter what, we decided to really take advantage of that 54 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: situation in a way that I don't think anybody else has. 55 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: And um, we realized that we could use some of 56 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: the main power from there to help move the needle 57 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: forward with where we're going with the company. And it 58 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: was a shared vision between the agents we brought in 59 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: and where we're going. And I think that these opportunities 60 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: as well in the happened every fifteen maybe twenty years, 61 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: and we weren't going to let this go by. It 62 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: was a moment in time. Thank you, Jim Goes Now, 63 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: Jim Osborne, I would say, out of all of this 64 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: chaos in the market, creating an opportunity where Jim and 65 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: I were able to partner with Yakaipa and Ron Burgle. 66 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: So out of necessity, right because it was obviously a 67 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: very difficult time, we sought out the proper partner who 68 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: actually really supported the entertainment business, the agency business, the 69 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: history of Hollywood, and I think having that support gave 70 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: us a certain amount of financial stability. And then when 71 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,239 Speaker 1: this happens with the w G A, Jim was actually 72 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: the president of the A t A at the time, 73 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 1: and we ultimately signed the code um and were the 74 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: recipient of thirty to forty excellent writer show runners who 75 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: were able to sign at that window. They've all stayed 76 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: with us, so they came in and we've retained them, 77 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 1: and I think through a period of of stabilization when 78 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,919 Speaker 1: this happened with I, C M and c A, Jim 79 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: was fully prepared to go after these agents, to acquire them, 80 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 1: bring them in and reshape this destiny yeah, yeah, I 81 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: think that. You know, Jimmy and I were able to 82 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 1: sit down and we both share the same vision and 83 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: we believe that moving forward and looking down the road, 84 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: if we're looking twenty miles down the road, it's really 85 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: about representation that hasn't changed and anything that we do, 86 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: it's about representing artists and what are you going to 87 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: do with those artists? And when this opportunity presented ourselves, 88 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: we made a list of people that we would like 89 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 1: to work with, and out of that list also became 90 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: people that we didn't even think were possible or that, 91 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,119 Speaker 1: you know, we'ren't going to make that journey, or maybe 92 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: didn't want to come to another agency, maybe didn't enjoy 93 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 1: the agency experience anymore. So we're very fortunate in that 94 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 1: that we were able to get most of the people 95 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: we went after. What story, I don't know if I'm 96 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: allowed to say this part of work. So I had 97 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,359 Speaker 1: been courting an agent for a very long time. We 98 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 1: had worked at Paradigm together Rodgers, and he has a 99 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: very complementary list with Regina Hall and Michael Rainy, and 100 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,239 Speaker 1: we worked with fifty and Mary J. Blige and and 101 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 1: I've been courting Andrew for a long time, and so 102 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: much so that he invited me to go on a 103 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: fishing trip. So I went on the fishing trip. I 104 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: did not know it was a spiritual retreat which I 105 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: went on. I didn't catch any fish, but ultimately, through destiny, 106 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: all of a sudden this happened. And Andrew and I 107 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 1: had become so close that he was so excited to 108 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: come to a p A. And this is years long 109 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: of courtship. So I got no fish, but we didn't 110 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 1: get Andrew. And Andrew brought Michael Sarah and Michael Rainy 111 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: and Regina Hall and Ken Jong and just an incredible 112 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: influx of talent um and talent that is focused on 113 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: building out production companies and brains. So it was perfect time. 114 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: That was my next question for you was in terms 115 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 1: of the people that he went after, did you go forward? 116 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: Did you go strategically by sector, you know, literary music, 117 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, or was it more personalities that 118 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: you thought when fare both well, that's a good point 119 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: I think in any of the interview process. Shoot, I 120 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: mean the way we both kind of look at this, 121 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 1: we look at it the same way, and these are 122 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: people we want to work with but what we're trying 123 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: to accomplish. If we had a whole of music, we 124 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: accomplished that. We went into the music agents that we 125 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: thought would really work for us and that we could 126 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: work with on the reality side, alternative television. We found 127 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: in several people in those areas, these are holes that 128 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: we wanted to fill. Talent and you Rodgers, you know, 129 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: um Phoebeu came over and other people that we just 130 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: felt they they'll help us make a difference here and 131 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: that's what we're in and and sit there. It was 132 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: very curated. I mean it was strategic because this was 133 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: an elongate process right for the merger to go through, 134 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: So we had a lot of time to be positioning 135 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: ourselves to be trying to see who would be a 136 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: good match and and leg said, figure out where we 137 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: needed extra power within the company and manpower and so 138 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: it was strategic and a loan process. But we couldn't 139 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: be happier with the results. The process really started when 140 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: the an answerment came out. We didn't wait till the 141 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: less and we were que I think it was last October. 142 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: We were on that that week. We were setting lunches 143 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: and meetings not to interfere with anybody's agreement, but to 144 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: basically sit down with people and say, listen, if you 145 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: don't go or you don't want to go, come to us. 146 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: We'd love to have you. And we kind of planted 147 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: those season and stayed on that through the whole process, 148 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: which I think we all thought took way longer than 149 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,839 Speaker 1: it should have for many reasons. I think with the 150 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: d O J and all that other stuff at the 151 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 1: high level, especially at the Wall Street level, there is 152 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: a sense that the entertainment business is a little bit 153 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: of crisis. How are you at the level of, you know, 154 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: with packaging, with television packaging going away and putting more 155 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 1: emphasis on the ten percent business Like this might sound 156 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: like a naive question, but is that still a good business? 157 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: It sure's onund like it is with you bringing on 158 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: these people at the certain world level of we're going 159 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: to get over three hundred clients and we're looking at, 160 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,199 Speaker 1: you know, eight figures. We're going to have the best 161 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: year next year we've ever had because of the the 162 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: certain of the moves that we make currently and the 163 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,319 Speaker 1: way the businesses run now from where it was and 164 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: business Yeah, I think you know, during the pandemic. Everybody 165 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: got conscient in the stomach pretty hard, every agency out there, 166 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: because everything came to a screech at all. Prior to that, 167 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: we were just coming out of We just signed the 168 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: agreements with the Guild, with the Writer's Guild and then 169 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: that was the end of January and in March, you know, 170 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: the world blew up in So I think necessity forces 171 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: you to look at your business in a way that 172 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: we've never looked at it before. Certainly having a ukaipa's 173 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: help and structuring things was was tremendous in the way 174 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: that we look at our business and we were able 175 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 1: to then make the move that we made in you know, 176 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: I fifteen agents to join us. So um, I don't 177 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: know that we wouldn't been able to accomplish that in 178 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: the past, but we were able to. We're looking at 179 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 1: growth and we're looking into future, and yes, Timber Center 180 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 1: alive and well, however, there's other businesses out there that 181 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: you know, we wouldn't be open to. Adding on to 182 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: what Jim was saying is, you know, with the Big three, 183 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: so to speak, there's very little real estate left of scale. 184 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: So what is great about an agency, It is the epicenter, 185 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: right and that is leads to many other businesses, the 186 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 1: talent of the town in which leads to so many 187 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: other openings, you know, in terms of other businesses from 188 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: you look at Endeavor obviously going into the Ultimate Fighting 189 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: Championship and the bull rioting, and then see a getting 190 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,959 Speaker 1: into sports. So it's it's it's a gateway, it's a 191 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: pass through into all these other kind of add ons 192 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: which can create a real entertainment company. But at the 193 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: court half to be talent representation and of course you know, 194 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: I mean in the world that you are most active 195 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: in is right now, you know, or great talent of vision. 196 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: It just seems like this guy's the limit right now. Well, 197 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: there's never been a better time to be an actor 198 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: in terms of the amount of opportunities. There are so 199 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: many new buyers of of of real importance that are 200 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: spending a great deal of money. Apple, Amazon is on 201 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:31,319 Speaker 1: a real growth and there's so many more potential shows 202 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: being produced and acting jobs. So it's it's never been 203 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 1: better in terms of getting a job and focusing on 204 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: career growth and the fees that are being associated now 205 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: with major talent as these distributors compete with each other 206 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: are scaling up to really extremely high levels. Um so 207 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: there's a great deal of competition for high end acting talent, 208 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 1: and I think also the ability for these artists to 209 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: build out production and teas and shift from simply a 210 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:07,319 Speaker 1: fee based situation to really being part of the ownership 211 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: of the content and have a real voice in the 212 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: creative creation of it. So less active for higher more 213 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: building your own content. That are you worried at all 214 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: as representatives, as talent advocates that there while at the 215 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: same time talent on the one hand, they have a 216 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,199 Speaker 1: bigger megaphone with social and they have there's so many 217 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: that so many people want talent that brings people to 218 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: the screen. At the same time, you've got you know, 219 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: six D eight companies that really dominate business, and they're 220 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: in the business of upfront you know, big upfront fees, 221 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: but upfront not necessarily one time payments. But it's not 222 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: the long tail profit participation that that world is shifting 223 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 1: in the new world order of streaming, in the way 224 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: content licensing is being done. Are you concerned as talent 225 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: advocates that long term that your clients won't make as 226 00:12:57,920 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: much as they did under the old system where they 227 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,839 Speaker 1: have a you know, a couple of points that for sure, 228 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 1: and I think the artist should share on the tail 229 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: of the revenue. And I think that ultimately something will 230 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: definitely there'll be a recording, you know of that, but 231 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: artists deserved to have a continued revenue street um, you know, 232 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: content that can live for you know, third or fifty years. 233 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 1: And I think the pendulum could swing the other way. 234 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 1: I think when somebody wants something bad enough, it'll swing 235 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: the other way. And right now it is where it is. 236 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: You know, we've figured it out and you know we 237 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 1: haven't allowed that to impede what we want to do. 238 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: So I think that you know, obviously having the clients 239 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: that can generate that, but I also know that if 240 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: somebody wants something bad enough, they may make a different 241 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: type of deal or something hydebread of that. So who 242 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: knows where it's going to be in the future. We've 243 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: seen a lot of very high level emin a Brother's 244 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: Discovery backs. Do you feel that you know, it's it's 245 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: sort of like, as you say, like there's more outlets 246 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: and opportunity before, but when you look behind the scenes 247 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: that it's pretty consolidated ownership. How do you do you 248 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:14,839 Speaker 1: feel do you feel consolidation, you feel the pinsion consolidation 249 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: or does it still feel like it's a very buoyant 250 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: I think market you want no go ahead. I was 251 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: just gonna say, you're seeing a lot of vertical integration 252 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: where you have one entity at the top that then 253 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: has multiple different distribution platforms well, so you'll have Viatocomparamount 254 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: Plus and then you have all of the labels underneath it. 255 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: So it is starting to head in that direction of 256 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: almost siloed um and entity, but there's still so many 257 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: buyers that it's they're also competing with themselves on a 258 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: lot of them. Have you felt much impact from the 259 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: change that was that did come with the w J 260 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: agreements with the Now that the packaging actually it's been 261 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: a year later and the packaging actually has sunset, it 262 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: has that. Is that something that you have felt in 263 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: the bottom line at all? The sunsetting of them? No, 264 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: it hasn't. Because in that time where the w g 265 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: A had everybody fired their agents, we were able to 266 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: sign a lot more television show runners and all of that, 267 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: and we doubled down on our lip business. Our limp 268 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: business is actually up, not down. In the core business 269 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: of you know, setting up film and TV shows. How 270 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: are you dealing with the volume increase? I asked this 271 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: to everybody in the business at every level, and only 272 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: I'm just curious because literally, like it's as if somebody 273 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: just flipped the switch and the factor. It's like we 274 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: see an with the chocolates, like we were not up. 275 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: And you know, one of our incredible clients who has 276 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: been so good to this agency is fifty He has 277 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: twenty two television shows. Achiever. Yes, he is the most 278 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: natural marketer I've ever seen and has his finger on 279 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: the pulse right for for the audience and for his 280 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: his um work ethic is just incredible. So twenty two 281 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: shows sold six or seven on air, and it is 282 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: a constant cycle of development and building. So it is. 283 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: It takes a lot of time, but it is. It 284 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: is the opportunities. And Mary J. Blige, you know, she 285 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: has to first look production company deals with show shooting 286 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: right now for lifetime, while she's doing a music tour, 287 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: while the company is selling other TV shows. So many 288 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: times to adjust, artists have to live in multiple areas 289 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: at once because they want to take advantage of all 290 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: the opportunity. But yeah, we don't get a lot of sleep. 291 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: Don't even think about changing agencies. We'll be right back 292 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: with more from a p A s Jim Gosnell and 293 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: Jim Osborne. Streaming has become the new TV today, Free 294 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: ad supported streaming TV otherwise known as FAST has opened 295 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: up new revenue streams her platform as advertisers and content 296 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: owners partner with Amagi, a global leader in Fast to 297 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 1: reach two hundred million plus CTV households, more than one 298 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:16,120 Speaker 1: hundred platforms, over seven hundred content brands, and access fifty 299 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: billion plus AD opportunities. So make a fast move, visit 300 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: a Magi dot com today and we're back with more 301 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,400 Speaker 1: from a p A leaders Jim Gosnell and Jim Osborne. 302 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: Let's talk about the touring business because I know a 303 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 1: p A has belonged had a real stronghold in the 304 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 1: in the touring business, the ships, as they used to say, 305 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 1: in the touring business. How I mean, obviously it took 306 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: a big hit in the pandemic, but I mean the 307 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 1: senses that that it's back, and boy is it back? 308 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:53,400 Speaker 1: Is it? Yeah? I mean when you look at Humanitiki 309 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: said something like Mary Jay Laws is selling right now 310 00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 1: arena level uh and and just doing trim endlessly. But 311 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: but in all aspects of the touring end of it 312 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,680 Speaker 1: is alive and well. It's finally I think it's a 313 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,199 Speaker 1: little first quarter was a little bit slower than anybody 314 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 1: thought it was going to be. That was still dealing 315 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,199 Speaker 1: with pandemic things. But since then it's really picked up steam. 316 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 1: And now coming into the fall, it's Gangbusters really doing well. So, uh, 317 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: we're seeing a lot of shows doing very well, and 318 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: twenty three looks like it's going to be equally as good, 319 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,880 Speaker 1: if not better. Yeah. Mary just is on our way 320 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: to l A. She just did did a five day 321 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 1: tour all arenas across the United States for kind of 322 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 1: a new promoter that came up during the pandemic, the 323 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 1: BPC Black Promoters Collective, And I was just got back 324 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: from Atlanta. It was packed. I mean, so touring business 325 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: is for sure alive and well and something that we 326 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: want to focus on greatly in the future. Even more 327 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 1: is that like an effort to kind of create some 328 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: some help. That's good because boy, if there's a consolidated business, 329 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: well yeah, but it's you know, it's a business that 330 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 1: people what I experienced, and I think that other people 331 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 1: have been the shows. People want to get out of 332 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 1: the house. They want to get out of the house, 333 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: they want to get back to what they love doing, 334 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: and they don't particularly care what the ticket prices or 335 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: if it's an honest they want to see. They're buying 336 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: a ticket and they're going. And I think it's an 337 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: exciting time right now. I believe that that business will 338 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: be alive and well, of course it took a huge 339 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: hit before. It was the first time since depressions and 340 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 1: wars and everything else that nobody was going to see 341 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: a live shop and now it's come back gangbusters. You 342 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: both have made mention of the investment, the partnership that 343 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 1: you established in twenty I think Fall with Ron Herkell 344 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 1: of been a big investor in southern California. Has it 345 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 1: invested and dabbled here and there in media, not a ton, 346 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: But tell me about how that relationship came about. Well, 347 00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: Jimmy actually sourced it. You could you could talk about 348 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: I um again, it was at a moment where everyone 349 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 1: was kind of looking around as COVID it's a hard time. 350 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: We were like, where's the end of this tunnel? To 351 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: be honest. I had a friend who knew Ron and 352 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,439 Speaker 1: in essence I cold called him. Was very gracious. I 353 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: went up and met with him and kind of took 354 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 1: him through who we are, what our philosophy is more 355 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 1: of kind of like the old Lou Wasserman model, you know, 356 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 1: more artists and representation, and he is a big fan 357 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: of old Hollywood and saw potential. And then Jim and 358 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,679 Speaker 1: I went up and met with him for a while. 359 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: Uh and ultimately he went off his gut and got 360 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 1: behind us and you know, gave us the courage to 361 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:55,920 Speaker 1: keep going and ultimately has been an incredible guide. And 362 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: his executives at the KYPE have been remarkable in terms 363 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 1: of a set funding board and giving us good you know, 364 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:07,640 Speaker 1: financial discipline and um and through the yr Kaiper Companies, 365 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 1: we've gotten to get relationships with a number of other 366 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 1: portfolio companies, So like Duncan Heath. I knew Duncan from 367 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: ed La Motto, but now you know he also works 368 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: with Yakaipa and so we're able to connect and really 369 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: find a synergy trying to find a cross polity between 370 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: the different companies, and it's just been extremely helpful. And 371 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 1: you know, I think Jim. Yeah, I went. And the 372 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: one thing about meeting Ron for the first time is 373 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: this is somebody who's passionate about the business. You're not 374 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 1: just meeting a hedge fund that let's at you like, well, 375 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: you're a business and I think you could do this 376 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: a little bit better than you're doing it. Um Ron 377 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: came from a place he really loves to entertainment, and 378 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: that came through to me more than anything else in 379 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,679 Speaker 1: the meeting. And it's very passionate about it in a 380 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: way that I didn't expect that. And I think that 381 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: when you meet with somebody, and certainly what he's accomplished 382 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,479 Speaker 1: in his life is amazing in itself. To a supermarket, yea, 383 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: I started out. I started out as a stockboy in 384 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 1: the super Mario is amazing. But I just you know, 385 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 1: the last thing he said is, you know, show me 386 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: somebody who's not taking risk, and I'll show you somebody 387 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: is not getting anywhere. And he also said, don't forget 388 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 1: it's good to have a billionaire in your corner. And 389 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: during that time I left that meeting going I think 390 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 1: I'm gonna sleep a little bit better tonight. And and 391 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: and it's really shut and we never had that kind 392 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 1: of financial packing. A p A management owned. Yeah, it 393 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: was management owned, and um, you know, we were always 394 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: looking down the road more long term. But um, you 395 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: know we need to have a stick in the spokes 396 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: once where everything comes to a screeching hole. Well, don't 397 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: forget w M ME and silver Lake and and chep 398 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: J and christ View what I c M. We you know, 399 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 1: we weren't involved with anybody, and not saying that we 400 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,920 Speaker 1: didn't want to be, but it just wasn't There wasn't 401 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: something we were focusing on, and when this event came 402 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: focused us to focus on it. But more importantly, it's 403 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: not just getting anybody's getting the right quart or somebody 404 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,439 Speaker 1: who understands where your business is at. And also somebody 405 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: is passionate about what you do, and we accomplished both 406 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: those things were being wrong. Tell me a little bit 407 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,119 Speaker 1: more about this agency's origins as you hit As you 408 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 1: hit sixty this year, UM, I have to admit I 409 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: don't know a ton about a p A. I'm guessing 410 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: it was like most agencies, it was probably the result 411 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 1: of the combination of other agents. Yeah, it's it's fascinating 412 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: that a PA came about when Lou Wasserman divested himself 413 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: of the agency business so much that was like year 414 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: one of the modern Age. Rank Kennedy's you know, Robert 415 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,199 Speaker 1: Kennedy came in and said, you cannot be. You cannot 416 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: represent production being a studio business and being the agency 417 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: business where you're buying and selling your client. How is 418 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: this not a limited series? Well, versus Lou Wasserman, we 419 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 1: could cast it here, here, here, here, it is. You're ready. 420 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: They got a waiver from the Screen Actors Skill, but 421 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 1: their client ran the scheme screen actors, so they went. 422 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 1: Wasserman decided to divest themselves of the agency business. There 423 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: was several different rumors going around, but I think this 424 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 1: one is probably the one that wins out. He didn't 425 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: want another agency to come back and kill him, so 426 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: he split it into many pieces and he was fine 427 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: with that. APA was one of those cases. David von 428 00:24:55,880 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 1: Garden formed a p A with the help of Harry Belafonte, 429 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 1: who was his biggest client at the time. Harry Bellefonte 430 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: len Us his offices on fifty seventh Street and UM 431 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 1: and I had the good fortune of having Harry in 432 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 1: my office maybe three or four years ago. And I said, 433 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,640 Speaker 1: I think we owe it all to you, and he said, well, yeah, 434 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:18,400 Speaker 1: I had a lot to do with it. And I said, 435 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: you know, this company was started with ten thousand dollars. 436 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: He goes, I think it was my ten thousand dollars. 437 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,679 Speaker 1: So that wasn't sort of a nice I don't know, 438 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: because that's the early sixties when he was having his 439 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 1: big hits. He played a month at the Greek Theater. 440 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: That's how big he was. He was. He was the 441 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:41,160 Speaker 1: most important touring act in Nagar. And also, I mean, 442 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 1: what a what a person would humanitarian? Like? Like, what 443 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: an awesome? What an awesome? And so the company got 444 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: started from that. But a little antedote on Ronald Reagan. 445 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:57,679 Speaker 1: You know, the story goes where you know it, the 446 00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 1: universe was sitting around going, you know some of the 447 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: laws in California. I mean, what are we gonna do? 448 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 1: And so we should get our own governor, and he 449 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: got Ronald Reagan to run, and of course he won 450 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: and then ultimately became president. And the story goes that 451 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,439 Speaker 1: he invited his agents inaugural night to the White House 452 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 1: and they're all lined up, all the people that used 453 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: to represent them, and as they came up one by one, 454 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:22,640 Speaker 1: and Reagan leaned in and said, you know, you guys 455 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,439 Speaker 1: have done a better job of my career. I wouldn't 456 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: have to take this gig. So so anyway, UM A 457 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 1: p a U started in New York, and then we 458 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: had an office in Chicago. Before we had an office 459 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, which I don't understand. But then then 460 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: we acquired a talent agency by a gentleman by name 461 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: of Al Gatski owned a talent agency. UM was partners 462 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 1: with a gentleman named Bruce Adanna in New York, and 463 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 1: that brought in our talent, got our talent department going. 464 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,360 Speaker 1: And then of course we're always very big in comedy 465 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: by the Rowan and Martin and Steve Martin and all 466 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: those other people and so yeah, and Johnny Cash for 467 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,679 Speaker 1: thirty five years and all of that. So I was 468 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: fortunately I got to join the company in So it's 469 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: been you know, it's been a hell of a ride. Um. 470 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 1: There were three partners, three main stockholders, Roger Voris, Marty Clin, 471 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: John Gaines. John Gaines and Marty Clin died thirty days apart, 472 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,679 Speaker 1: fifty and fifty one years old. I mean, can you 473 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: imagine if God forbid Mike Ovids and Ron Meyer, I mean, 474 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: that would have been the end of that company. Um, 475 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 1: but we we we felt it, you know, we could 476 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 1: carry on. Roger VORs came out from New York and 477 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: took over the West, took over the whole company. And 478 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 1: I always felt, we're going to get smaller before we 479 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: get bigger. And of course we lost a lot of 480 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: clients during that period that John and Marty were the 481 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 1: responsible Agent four. But you know, we felt we could 482 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: build it back, and that sort of the story did. Yeah, 483 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: here we are today. I mean, Jim, you've a lot 484 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: a lot come and go. What what you know? If 485 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: you if you had to like make a prediction or 486 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: talk about sort of where's the agency business going in? 487 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,159 Speaker 1: I love your perspective on that. Well, I think the 488 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 1: agency business is alive and well. I think that people 489 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: will always want to be represented. And I think the 490 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,199 Speaker 1: job of any good agents that figure out can you 491 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,640 Speaker 1: move your client across multiple verticals because clients are now 492 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: working in different areas and everything before actors for instance, 493 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: or brand endorsements and all that other stuff, So you 494 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:34,919 Speaker 1: have to be in those areas of the business. But 495 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: it is alive and well, and I think that Wall 496 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: Street and has woken up to the fact that maybe 497 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: there is something in the agency business. You're seeing these 498 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: companies which looks like they're going to go public. Um, 499 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: certainly see A and probably U T A, and UM 500 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: I'm looking at A P A. And I think Jimmy 501 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: feels the same way. We have beach front property here 502 00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: and we're attracting people that feel there's no ceiling on 503 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: where they can be and that's why we've become a 504 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: destination place for other agency to join us. And I 505 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: do think on that we're in a unique opportunity right now, 506 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: as some of these other agencies have in many ways 507 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: morphed out of being an agency where they've gotten so 508 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,239 Speaker 1: big that they don't even call themselves agencies. They call 509 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: them those media companies, right, So I think that that's 510 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 1: created a huge opportunity for us in the landscape to 511 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: really take a position as a true alternative to the 512 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: Big three and really solidify our place because others don't 513 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: do music, don't do this. We have a full service 514 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: entity with the reach of a major, but really the 515 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: philosophy still of a boutique, although we do work the 516 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: agency architecture extremely well in terms of moving clients across divisions. Um. 517 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: But it creates an opportunity where we can take in 518 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: certain artists and really monetize them to a tremendous amount. 519 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: So some of the best clients we have came from 520 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: other places where they weren't getting the right level of attention. 521 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: And you know, clearly we're in the very strong, solid 522 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: fourth position and I think, um, you know, perhaps one 523 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: day will rival number three, but right now it's all 524 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: about artists first and solidifying our core base. But we've 525 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: we were very much the recipient of market openings with 526 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: the disappearance of I c M, where I started in 527 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: the mail room and worked for at Lamoto. And so 528 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: now that is gone and we have in essence taken 529 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: over a role which destiny timing and having row Berger 530 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: behind us and Jim guiding us and being able to 531 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 1: acquire fifteen agents is quite remarkable. And I think we've 532 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: all seen the agency business fluctuate, right. And the thing 533 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: that always got me is I got several mini culser 534 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: the d O J about this C A, I c M. 535 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 1: This is going to harden the business. And I have 536 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: to admit I always thought it was a little writer's 537 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: centric the conversation. But I said, you don't know the 538 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: history of the agency business. If you think that William R. 539 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: S bought Endeavor, did the companies not grow around them? No, 540 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 1: everybody grow up. You know. The good thing about representation, Um, 541 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: they had the choice to go wherever they want to go. Now, 542 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: sometimes that's good, sometimes that's bad. However, UM, we're all 543 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: in business to continue and hopefully take their careers to 544 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 1: another level. The agencies, you know, merging like this didn't 545 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: create a problem for the business or clients. The doors 546 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 1: wide open, and I think that will always happen. I 547 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: think new agencies may have verage out of this, maybe 548 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 1: a couple of small agencies to get together. Who knows 549 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 1: where we're going to be in five years and what 550 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: we're gonna do. But I don't see this as constricting 551 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: the business. So I really don't. And did you, may 552 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: I ask you, is that kind of the tenor of 553 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: what you told the d J seven times? No, I 554 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: mean I've never had I gotta be honest. The conversations 555 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: were borderline ridiculous, and how they thought about the business 556 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: works that c A and I see them are gonna 557 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: have such a hold in the business. They're gonna be 558 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: able to go to Netflix and tell them what they're 559 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: gonna buy and when they're gonna buy it, and who's 560 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: gonna star in it and all that. And I said, 561 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: you were so wrong. That's not how I can only 562 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 1: tell you. It was one call is five lawyers on 563 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 1: the phone, and they're going You were quoted as saying 564 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 1: that this is good for them and it's gonna be 565 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: great for you. Do you stand by that. I don't 566 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: know that was an understatement. It's gonna be fantastic for us. 567 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: I said, you don't get it. Clients will become available, 568 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: agents will become available. You know, who knows how that's 569 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 1: all going to shake out, but it creates an opportunity 570 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 1: for everybody. It's who decides to take advantage of it 571 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: or not. And I said, you didn't care about Disney 572 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: and you know of Fox getting together, and I think, 573 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,479 Speaker 1: bother you, why is this such a big deal. I 574 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: couldn't get it, only that you know somebody who's complaining 575 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,959 Speaker 1: and got to the d O J and finally, you know, 576 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: they improved. But I was very supportive of of that merger, 577 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 1: not for reasons of what are we gonna what is 578 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 1: ap A gonna get it? Just that I don't think 579 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: that the d o J should have anything to say 580 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: about the agency business and entertainment. I mean, it's just 581 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 1: so out of their realm. There's so many other things 582 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 1: that should be doing and this is not one of them. 583 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:33,960 Speaker 1: That's my opinion. I just want to say, I like 584 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: the d o J. I don't want to be audited. 585 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: I don't want to tax. But no. But but the 586 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 1: thing you're still right where the conceptual misses if you 587 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: just go back historically, like I see m was an 588 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: amalgamation of many agency actually famous Endeavor just before you know, 589 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,959 Speaker 1: we were having this meeting. I looked and I remember 590 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 1: when or left. I see him, that's twenty seven years ago. 591 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: There was no Endeavor and look what a power full 592 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 1: agency force it's become. So this is all natural. You 593 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: know that things break apart, come together, and you know 594 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 1: the same thing I had. I was very lucky to 595 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: have lunch with Ron Meyer a couple of weeks ago, 596 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 1: and he talked about when they started him and Mike. 597 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: You know, they never envisioned that there would be such 598 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 1: an appetite for a service business as we're seeing now, 599 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 1: He said he probably never would have left UM, and 600 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,839 Speaker 1: so I think that it's it's like you said, Jim, 601 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: it's it's it isn't in the business that you have 602 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 1: to understand and if you look at it from the outside, 603 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:42,839 Speaker 1: you don't see. Thanks for listening. Be sure to leave 604 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: us a review at Apple Podcasts. We love to hear 605 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,479 Speaker 1: from listeners. Please go to Variety dot com to sign 606 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 1: up for the free Strictly Business newsletter, and don't forget 607 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,320 Speaker 1: to tune in next week for another episode of Strictly Business. 608 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: To take at betle Thing detain