1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from house 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 1: Tracy Vie Wilson and I'm Holly Frying. So a couple 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: of weeks ago, we did an episode on Britain's child 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: migrant program in which the British Empire sent children to 6 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: live in Canada and Australia and Rhodesia and other parts 7 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: of the Empire, and the focus on that episode was 8 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: really on Australia. A lot of the children who were 9 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 1: sent to Australia wound up living in just horrifying conditions, 10 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: and the governments of Great Britain and Australia later formally 11 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: apologized for that whole thing. In that episode, we mentioned 12 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: Rhodesia really almost in passing. It was almost like an aside. 13 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: I knew very little about Rhodesia and its history, and 14 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: most of my research on that previous episode was really 15 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,319 Speaker 1: on Canada and Australia, so we really did not give 16 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: Rhodesia a lot of attention aside from that very brief 17 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: passing mention. The day after we recorded, though, a gunman 18 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: killed nine people at Emmanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church, in Charleston, 19 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: South Carolina. A suspect was later named as Dylan Roth 20 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: and he confessed to the shooting, and pictures of him 21 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 1: wearing a jacket with a Rhodesian flag on it eventually 22 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 1: went viral. So suddenly our passing mention of Rhodesia seemed 23 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: really woefully inadequate. But at that point we could not 24 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: really redo that episode. So today we are going to 25 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: remedy that with some context on Rhodesia and why the 26 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: Rhodesian flag is associated with white supremacy today. Today, the 27 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: territory that was once known as Rhodesia is two different nations, 28 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: Zambia to the north and Zimbabwe to the south. Our 29 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: primary focus in this episode is really the southern part 30 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: of the territory, but to set the stage, we're going 31 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: to talk a bit about how both of them came 32 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: to be so. For centuries, this part of Africa has 33 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: been home to a number of Bantu speaking peoples. One 34 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: of these peoples, who were the ancestors of the Shona people, 35 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: created an immense city known as Great Zimbabwe, which according 36 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: to legend, is also the home of the Queen of Sheba. 37 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: It's estimated that more than ten thousand people lived in 38 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: Great Zimbabwe at its peak. The city was so massive 39 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 1: and so complex that European colonists thriving in the area 40 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: in the eighteen hundreds actually credited its creation to foreign 41 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 1: visitors like Egyptians or Phoenicians, rather than having to be 42 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: the work of Africans, which is what it actually was. Today. 43 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: Great Zimbabwe is a UNESCO World Heritage Site. In the 44 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 1: mid to late eighteen hundreds, those European explorers and colonists 45 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: generally came into the region from the South. One of 46 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: them was Cecil Rhods, who had been sent to South 47 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: Africa in eighteen seventy to work on his brother, Herbert's 48 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: cotton farm rather than going to university. So I'm gonna 49 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: find very briefly about his time prior to becoming involved 50 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: in what would later be Rhodesia. When Cecil Rhodes arrived 51 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: in South Africa, his brother had actually already abandoned this 52 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: farm in favor of a much more lucrative pursuit, which 53 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: was diamond mining. Cecil convinced Herbert to come back to 54 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: the farm, and they did try to make it go 55 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: for a year or so, but in eighteen seventy one, 56 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: the two of them both moved to Kimberly once again 57 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,959 Speaker 1: in pursuit of diamonds. And although Cecil rhodes health had 58 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: not been especially good for much of his life, he 59 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: was super ambitious and in eighteen eighty one he finished 60 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: a degree and he later co founded De Beer's Consolidated 61 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: Minds with C. D. Rudd and with the help of 62 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: their friend Albert Bit, de Beers established a monopoly that 63 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: eventually controlled nine of the world's production of diamonds. When 64 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: when we say ambitious here, he had aspirations like expanding 65 00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:00,080 Speaker 1: the British Empire as far as possible, including reclaim in 66 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: the United States, which at this point had been independent 67 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: for Britain for a while. So he had very high 68 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: aspirations in terms of the British Empire, especially so the 69 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: de Beers diamond Cartel and the diamond trade could be 70 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: a whole other podcast, and in fact it has been 71 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: both on this show and on our prior podcast called 72 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 1: Pop Stuff. But long story short, Cecil Rhodes did not 73 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: really just get behind the idea of making a bunch 74 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 1: of money and then hoarding it. He wanted to put 75 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: that wealth into action and so he made his way 76 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: into politics in one hoping to really transform this diamond 77 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,359 Speaker 1: wealth into political power, both in the context of the 78 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: British Empire as I just mentioned, and then also the 79 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 1: politics of Africa and other imperial powers within Africa. After 80 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: a while, and including a number of other events that 81 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: we're not going to get into because it's outside the 82 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: scope of this episode. He wanted to get into gold 83 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 1: mining in what is now Zimbabwe. To do that, he 84 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 1: needed to secure rights from King Loban Goula, ruler of 85 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: the However, Loeban Goula did not trust him or any 86 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: other white person apart from missionaries. So Cecil Rhodes teamed 87 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: up with Congregationalist John Smith Moffatt and together they persuaded 88 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 1: Loeban Goula to sign an exclusive treaty of friendship in 89 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: February of eight So from there they started trying to 90 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 1: get Loban Goula to give them mining concessions, which he 91 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: was very extremely reluctant to do. He was pretty sure 92 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: that if he gave these, you know, European people rights 93 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: to his land that they were never going to leave. 94 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: But in October of the state of the same year, 95 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: after lots of pressure, he finally did grant mining concessions, 96 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: but what he actually signed did not just give them 97 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: rights to mine his territory. He basically signed away control 98 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: of the kingdom. And with those concessions in hand, Rhodes 99 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: went right to the British government seeking a Royal charter 100 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: to start the British South Africa Company, with the goal 101 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 1: of expanding British territory in that part of Africa. The 102 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: charter was granted in eighteen eighty nine. The initial charter 103 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: was for twenty five years and that was extended for 104 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: ten more years in nineteen fifteen, begetting in eighteen ninety, 105 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: which is the same year that Cecil Rhodes also took 106 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: up the post of Prime Minister of Cape Colony. The 107 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 1: British South Africa Company expanded British territory into what's now 108 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: Zambia and Malawi. So this was way beyond the original 109 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 1: territory that was initially negotiated with King Logan Goula. And 110 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: there are a zillion other things we could talk about 111 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: when it comes to Cecil Rhods life in his activities 112 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: in Africa, but we actually need to move ahead in 113 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: Zimbabwe's history specifically, and we're gonna do that, but first 114 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 1: we were going to have a brief word from a sponsor. 115 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: They're going to trace the arc of Rhodesian history through 116 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: its independence from Britain. In the eighteen nineties, under the 117 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: British South Africa Company, Great Britain acquired an appropriate aided 118 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: the territory that would become Northern and Southern Rhodesia, built 119 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: new infrastructure, including lots of railroad, and used the Paramilitary 120 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: force as law enforcement. The British South Africa Company made 121 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: money through mining and agriculture, as well as on collecting customs, 122 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: duties and other taxes and fees on paper. The British 123 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: South Africa Company often got the consent of local African 124 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: leaders before beginning operations, but as had been the case 125 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: with King Loeban Goula, this consent was often reluctantly given 126 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: at best, and Loeban Goula himself actually fled the region 127 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: in eight three following an armed resistance by the Nadeblay 128 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: against British advance. There were also multiple instances of the 129 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: company running well passed what was actually agreed to once 130 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: that consent was actually given, and sometimes the company evaded 131 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: UH working with local governments without getting their consent at all, 132 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: and naturally the coal people often put up a lot 133 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: of resistance to this, including armed resistance. So the law 134 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: enforcement arm of the company became a fighting force to 135 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: try to put down local descent. There was extensive fighting 136 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: between the African population and the British South Africa Company 137 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: until eight and when I made that passing aside in 138 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: our British Migrant Child Migrant Program episode two, what was 139 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: happening in Rhodesia, Like, those are the sorts of things 140 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: that I just thought were happening, Like the things that 141 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: very frequently have happened in the like history of colonialism 142 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 1: in terms of UH, like making unequal treaties and putting 143 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: down local resistance with force and that kind of like, 144 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: those are the sort of things that I thought were 145 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: probably going on in Rhodesia when I made that one 146 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 1: passing aside. The British South Africa Company administered Southern Rhodesia 147 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: until ninety three, but after the end of World War One, 148 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: Rhodesia started pressuring the comp need to be allowed to 149 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: govern itself. Eventually, a Royal commission studied the issue. Ultimately 150 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: offering two options. Southern Rhodesia could join the Union of 151 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: South Africa or become self governing. So this issue was 152 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: put to a vote. But the thing was the only 153 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: people who had the right to vote were the thirty 154 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: four thousand Europeans living in Rhodesia, not the African population 155 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:25,839 Speaker 1: of Rhodesia, who did not have the right to vote. 156 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: The vote wound up going in favor of self self 157 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: government for Southern Rhodesia. So Rhodesia at this point became 158 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: a self governing British colony UH, with Britain retaining control 159 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: of external affairs for Southern Rhodesia and having legislative power 160 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: UH basically a veto power over issues that would directly 161 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: affect the African population. The British Colonial Office took control 162 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: of Northern Rhodesia in UR and as we said at 163 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: the top of the show, that's now Zambia, and from 164 00:09:57,880 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: here on out we're going to focus on the souther 165 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: Durn part of Rhodesia going forward. We're also going to 166 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: skip ahead by about forty years, and during much of 167 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: that forty years, Ordes's economy did grow. Overall, a lot 168 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: of the money came from mining copper and gold and 169 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: other materials, as well as raising cattle and growing crops 170 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: like corn and tobacco. For a lot of that time, 171 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: the White government operated with an attitude that Africans could 172 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 1: eventually take over governing Rhodesia once they were experienced enough 173 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: to cooperate with other governments on an international scale and 174 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: basically keep up the economic progress that had been made 175 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: under White rule. This changed radically under Prime Minister Ian 176 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: Douglas Smith, who took office in April of nineteen sixty four. 177 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: He was a war hero from the Royal Air Force 178 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: who had survived both crashing and being shot down, and 179 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 1: had returned home with damage to one eye and part 180 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: of his face. From the very beginning of his entry 181 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: into Rhodesian politics, he wanted to protect white minority rule. 182 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 1: For a little more on his political background. In nineteen 183 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: forty eight, Smith had been elected to the Southern Rhodesian 184 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: Assembly and he joined the governing Federal Party in nineteen 185 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: fifty three. He continued to be part of this party 186 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: until nineteen sixty one. The thing that prompted him to 187 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: leave was that the Federal Party supported a new constitution 188 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: which would have allowed Black Africans in Rhodesia to have 189 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: a bigger part in parliament. Black Africans were at this 190 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: point a huge majority, but had very little representation in 191 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: the white government. So with the Federal Party supporting this 192 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: new constitution, Smith, who disagreed, broke away from it and 193 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 1: helped fund a new party called the Rhodesian Front. The 194 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: party platform of the Rhodesian Front included gaining independence from 195 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: Britain and continuing to govern Rhodesia via a white minority 196 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 1: and not handing over power to the majority black population. 197 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: The Rhodesian Front gained support from white supremacists and they 198 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: won the election in nineteen sixty two. That same year, 199 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: the U n General Assembly called for a more their 200 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: World constitution that would allow equal representation for the black 201 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: population in Rhodesia. In nineteen sixty four, Smith became Prime 202 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: Minister of Rhodesia, making him the first native born prime 203 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: minister of the nation, and he basically got to work 204 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: trying to cement white rule over Rhodesia and to keep 205 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: the country existing in a state of apartheid. He refused 206 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: to even discuss reforms to the constitution that would let 207 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: the majority black population have a proportional voice in the government, 208 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: and he arrested and banned black nationalist leaders. Organized Black 209 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: African resistance to minority white rule had really started to 210 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: grow basically as soon as Rhodesia had become a self 211 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: governing colony, and by the nineteen sixties, black nationalist groups 212 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: were emerging as an organized presence within the country. This 213 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,199 Speaker 1: included the Zimbabwe African People's Union or ZAPPU and the 214 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: Zimbabwe African National Union or ZANU, and two prominent leaders 215 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: within these movements where Joshua Tacomo and Robert Ugave. Relationships 216 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: with Great Britain were also starting to sour. At this point, 217 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: Smith tried to negotiate with Britain for total independence, but 218 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 1: the British government's position was that Rhodesia's black population needed 219 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: to have a voice in its government that reflected the 220 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: size of its population. At this point, there were two 221 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty thousand white Rhodesians and almost four million 222 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:26,439 Speaker 1: Black Rhodesians, almost none of whom were permitted to vote 223 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: or hold office, so distributing power so that the races 224 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 1: could be represented equally was something that Smith absolutely refused 225 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: to consider, even though it was literally the one thing 226 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: that would have made Great Britain open to the idea 227 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 1: of Rhodesian independence. Eventually, negotiations between Rhodesia and Great Britain's 228 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 1: totally broke down. So on November eleven, n Ian Smith 229 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: issued the Unilateral Declaration of Independence also called the u 230 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: d I, in which Rhodesia declared its independence from Great Britain. 231 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: He said this was the only to maintain quote civilized standards. 232 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: The tone of this document is like very similar to 233 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: the but the like United States Declaration of Independence from Britain, 234 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: but the wording of it is has a whole other subtext. 235 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: It's basically like, we've been governing ourselves for this long 236 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: and we have seen repeatedly other nations have their own 237 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: populations take over and it hasn't gone as well. So 238 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: we respect you, your majesty, but we're independent now. That 239 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: basically what it boils down to. So uh, this Unilateral 240 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: Declaration of Independence did not go over well, and it 241 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: did not go over well on an international scale. The 242 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: international community was outraged and most nations did not recognize 243 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: or Dies as a legitimate country at all. For a 244 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: sense of the timing of when this all happened. This 245 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: was two years after the March on Washington and Martin 246 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: Luther King Jr. So I have a Dream speech was 247 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: a year after President Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights 248 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: Act of nineteen sixty four and Martin Luther King Jr. 249 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: Was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. It was the same 250 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: year as the Selma to Montgomery March and the passage 251 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: of the Voting Rights Act in the United States. So 252 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: happening concurrently with Black Americans seeking the rights that had 253 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: already been granted to them in the Constitution. Black Africans 254 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: and Rhodesia were seeking the right to participate in the 255 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: government basically at all, and Ian Smith had gone so 256 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: far as to declare independence from Great Britain. Rather than 257 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: do that, at Britain's request, the U N. Security Council 258 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: imposed economic sanctions against Rhodesia in nineteen sixty six, the 259 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: first time it had used this tactic. Smith responded by 260 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: defaulting on all of Rhodesia's debts, which were backed by 261 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: Great Britain, and that put Britain on the hook for 262 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: everything that Rhodesia owned. It's basically a very novel way 263 00:15:51,320 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: of uh stabbing Great Britain's economy while balancing the Rhodesian economy. Uh. 264 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: There's also an argument to be made that that this 265 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: all would have been over very quickly if Britain had 266 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: invaded Rhodija, but Britain did not want to do that. 267 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: So Smith got off all times with Great Britain and 268 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: started the wheels turning on a new constitution for Rhodesia, 269 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: and one that would, instead of eventually handing over power 270 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: to the black majority, one that would make Rhodesia a 271 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: republic while guaranteeing that the rule of that republic would 272 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: be solidly, solidly in the hands of a white minority permanently. 273 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: All of this was put to a vote, but the 274 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: people who had the right to vote in Rhodesia at 275 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: this point were overwhelmingly white, so Smith's plan passed by 276 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: a landslide. Parliament passed the new constitution in November of 277 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, and Rhodesia declared itself a republic on 278 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: the following March second. So in this point, the several 279 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: of the black nationalist organizations that had already existed in 280 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: Rhodesia banded together to form the Patriotic Front Both Joshua 281 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: and Como and Robert Robert mcgavey were involved in this organization. 282 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 1: The Patriotic Front started leading guerrilla warfare efforts to try 283 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: to take control of Rhodesia back from the minority to 284 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: the majority. As the Patriotic Front fought against the Rhodesian 285 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 1: armed forces, the economy of Rhodesia started to crumble under 286 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: the strain. White Rhodesians started to emigrate out of Rhodesia, 287 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: and this war went on until nineteen Nearly thirty thousand 288 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 1: people died, and most of those people were Black Africans. 289 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: There are a lot of reasons why this went on 290 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 1: for so long, uh that some of them were that, 291 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,680 Speaker 1: like number one, guerrilla fighting tends to be drawn out 292 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: and kind of horrible. But in addition to that, there 293 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: were several factions within the African population, and sometimes they 294 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,360 Speaker 1: were good at working together, and then sometimes they had 295 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 1: sort of fundamentally different viewpoints on how things should proceed, 296 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 1: and it just became this long, long, drawn out conflict 297 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: that was pretty brutal and gruesome. Finally, in nineteen seventy seven, 298 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: after immense pressure from diplomatic and economic and military directions, 299 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: Smith started negotiating with Able Musariwa, who was of the 300 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: United African National Council. He was a moderate Black Rhodesian 301 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: leader and a bishop and the Methodist Church. Power started 302 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 1: to be transferred from the minority white government to black 303 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: Rhodesians in nineteen seventy eight, although at this point the 304 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: goal was to give black Rhodesians the right to vote 305 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: while still protecting the interests of the white ruling class. 306 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: At this point, Rhodesia also became known as Rhodesia Zimbabwe. 307 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy nine, in an election in which the 308 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: black population had much greater access to voting rights, the 309 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: United African National Council won a majority of the seats 310 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: that had been allotted for black citizens, but the u 311 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: a n C did not actually have the support of 312 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: the Patriotic Front. One of the reasons for this was 313 00:18:55,359 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: actually because this new plan basically guaranteed the white minority 314 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: a certain proportion of seats in the government so that 315 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: they would continue to be represented in the government. But 316 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:09,640 Speaker 1: the Patriotic Front really wanted the Zimbabwe or what would 317 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:14,400 Speaker 1: be Zimbabwe, to become like a black national state, so 318 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: they were opposed to their being representation for the white 319 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: minority in the government. That was why this continued uh 320 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:25,360 Speaker 1: to have guerilla warfare going on, because the Patriotic Front 321 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: didn't really agree with the plan that had been put 322 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 1: into place. So at the end of that year, Britain 323 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: briefly took control again until a new round of elections 324 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: could be held. ZANU, which had taken the name Zimbabwe 325 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: African National Union Patriotic Front, one a majority of seats 326 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 1: and Robert Mugabe became the first Prime Minister of Zimbabwe. 327 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: On April eighteenth, nineties, Zimbabwe gained recognition as an independent state. 328 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: So after all that, it seems kind of obvious why 329 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: the flag of Rhodesia might be associated with white supremacy 330 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: to but there is actually a whole other layer to 331 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: this story, not just because Rhodesia was operated as a 332 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,479 Speaker 1: white supremacist state with Ian Smith as the prime minister. 333 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,199 Speaker 1: A lot of it actually has to do with Zimbabwe 334 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,719 Speaker 1: and the intervening years since it became an internationally recognized 335 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 1: state up until today. When Robert Mugabe became Prime Minister 336 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,719 Speaker 1: of Zimbabwe, his goal was to move the nation towards 337 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: being a one party socialist state in which disparities between 338 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: races and classes were abolished. The ongoing warfare and strife 339 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,959 Speaker 1: had also damaged the economy, and the infrastructure and social 340 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,479 Speaker 1: services needed big investments as well. If you ever watched 341 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: the international news, you know that Robert mcgavey still leads Zimbabwe. 342 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 1: He's now the executive president after having changed the constitution 343 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: in and a lot of those intervening years have been 344 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: extremely troubled, to put it extremely mildly. At the very 345 00:20:56,040 --> 00:21:00,200 Speaker 1: beginning of its existence as a recognized state, Zimbabwe way 346 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:04,199 Speaker 1: experienced drought, continued white immigration out of the country, and 347 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 1: a very slow recovery from the tens of thousands of 348 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: deaths during the warfare that led to its independence. Zimbabwe 349 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: then went through five years of civil war after Mugabe 350 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 1: charged Joseph Nacomo with plotting a coup against it, and 351 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: in the nation lost its international aid after intervening in 352 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: the Democratic Republic of Congo's own civil war, purportedly so 353 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: Mugabe could protect his own interests. There. There were a 354 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: series of land management programs that were meant to return 355 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,440 Speaker 1: land that had previously been seized or otherwise gained not 356 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: necessarily uh ethically by the Europeans, and a lot of 357 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: those backfired. In some cases, for example, farms were seized 358 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 1: and then not put back into production, which forced the 359 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: people who had been working there into unemployment. In other cases, 360 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: seized farmland was put back into production, but without experienced 361 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: farmers to keep things running smoothly. All of this fur 362 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: are depressed Zimbabwe's economy while also leading to food shortages. 363 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 1: Although the economy did grow between uh two thousand ten 364 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: and two thousand thirteen, it was by that point just 365 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: deeply damaged, and it slowed significantly in two and the 366 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: nation has suffered from extreme inflation as it printed more 367 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 1: money to make up for its deficit. There is also 368 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: a lot of criticism of Mugabe himself as his popularity 369 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 1: has waned. Elections in Zimbabwe have increasingly been described by 370 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: international observers observers as neither free nor fair somebod These 371 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: are a little more recent history than we normally get 372 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: into in depth on the podcast, but there are whole 373 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:47,679 Speaker 1: weird shenanigans with voter suppression and coercion and violence, and 374 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 1: in one case uh an election that Mugabe lost but 375 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: there was not a majority, so there had to be 376 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 1: a runoff and then he won the runoff, and that 377 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: whole thing appears very suspicious to a lot of people. Currently, 378 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 1: according to the CIA World Factbook, Zimbabwe's life expectancy at 379 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: birth is just fifty five years by estimates, the adult 380 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: prevalence rate for HIV and Zimbabwe is almost fifteen percent. 381 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: So white supremacists adoption of the Rhodesian flag as an 382 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:25,120 Speaker 1: emblem is really about the comparison of Rhodesia under white rule, 383 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: when the black population was deeply discriminated against, but the 384 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: nation was prospering on paper and afterward when the majority 385 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: is adequately represented in the government, but the nation itself 386 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: is home to just years and years of struggle and 387 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: strife and a leader who has become notorious in a 388 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: lot of ways around the globe for various uh reasons, 389 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: like dal I could be a whole other show. So 390 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 1: not the most happy fun time, but it does contextualize 391 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: a little bit. While why in the news there was 392 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 1: so much commentary about the photos that had emerged of 393 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: Dylan Roth and his jacket that had the Rhodesian flag 394 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 1: on it. Yeah, he also had a flag of like 395 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: a South African apartheid era flag, which it was more 396 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: obvious to a lot of people, like the story of 397 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: apartheid in South Africa. I think he's a lot more 398 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: known to people today than probably, uh, the story of Rhodesia. 399 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 1: I say that in part because also one of the 400 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: reasons that I have a suspicion that that the story 401 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: of Rhodesia is a lot less well known is that 402 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: after I had been researching the podcast on the child 403 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: Migrant Program, but before Rhodesia suddenly became national news, I 404 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 1: was actually in a room of trivia pub trivia with 405 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: lots of smart people, and one of the questions was 406 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: about why Rhodesia declared its independence for Britain. Uh, No 407 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: one knew. I knew part of the story, which was 408 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: the part where they had been trying to maintain a 409 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: privileged white ruling class, like not the whole story of 410 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 1: declaring independence from Britain in order to maintain a state 411 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: of white supremacy. So I have a much lighter topic 412 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: for some listener mail. I know you have a lighter 413 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 1: topic for listener mail, So let's move to that because 414 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: it's gonna be a little bit fun. It is a 415 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: little bit fun. I have email from Larry who wrote 416 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: to us after our episode UM on the archaeological work 417 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: regarding the Harvard Indian School, which was actually Holly's episode. 418 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,440 Speaker 1: You may have noticed that normally when we do listener mail, 419 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 1: Holly often reads mail that's related to episodes that she 420 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: was the primary researcher on. I often read mail related 421 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: to the episodes that I was a primary researcher on, 422 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: doing the opposite today because that, uh, that episode was 423 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: entirely Holly's ball game. Uh. But I'm going to take 424 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: this email for reasons that are about to come obvious, 425 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 1: So Larry says, first off, First off, I love the podcast. 426 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: I always like hearing about local events that I never 427 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,360 Speaker 1: knew happened locally, as especially this most recent podcast. There 428 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: was one pronunciation in the beginning of the episode that 429 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,719 Speaker 1: caught me off guard. Massachusetts cities and areas have weird 430 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 1: pronunciations Wooster, haverl, Lester, etcetera. And for those of you 431 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,880 Speaker 1: not looking at this email with me, on paper, those 432 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: look like Worcester, haver Hill and Leicester Peabody. It's also 433 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 1: the same. I could be a mistaken since it is 434 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: the museum name, but the town of Peabody is pronounced peabody. 435 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 1: Keep rolling out the podcast. It makes my job driving 436 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:35,679 Speaker 1: to sites as a wastewater engineer more enjoyable. Thanks or regards, Larry. 437 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: So thank you Larry for sending this note. For a 438 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: couple of reasons. When pod Holly and I had a 439 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: whole conversation about whether to re record, like the time 440 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: that she said peabody because it looks like peabody on paper, 441 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: I think of English speakers would probably in America say Peabody. 442 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 1: And Diana and Trish were so gracious they did not 443 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 1: correct me because they're very sweet women. Didn't want to 444 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: be Yeah, you said peabody on the phone with them. Uh. 445 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: We had the only reason though, that I know that 446 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: that Pbody Massachusetts and the Pbody Museum, which are both 447 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: named after George Pbody, And I don't know why he 448 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: said his name that way. The only reason I know 449 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: that's how those are pronounced that way is because I 450 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:23,479 Speaker 1: live here. Now you've actually lived there for a while now, 451 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:30,680 Speaker 1: a bit surprise everyone. So basically, uh, we've talked about 452 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 1: my fiance before. He lives here in Massachusetts. Uh, his 453 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:40,120 Speaker 1: job is infinitely less portable than my job is, and 454 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 1: so I moved. Uh, And our plan was that we 455 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 1: were going to move. I was going to move. We 456 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: didn't both move. Uh, I was gonna move. We were 457 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 1: gonna make sure everything still worked with the podcast, and 458 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: then we were going to tell people. But because of 459 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 1: the lag time between when we record podcasts and when 460 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: they come out, once we had a stabblished that everything 461 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: was fine and the podcast still worked and we were 462 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: still able to do it and people were still enjoying it. Uh, 463 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 1: it seemed really awkward. So then be like, oh, by 464 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: the way, this happened. Um. So basically, we're really glad 465 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: that that Larry Stones because it seems like a good 466 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 1: segue uh to a secret that was previously known to 467 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: like people at work, friends and family, Uh, some random 468 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: folks who went to a Western Massachusetts meet up with 469 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: John Hodgman uh and the audience of Stuff you Should 470 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 1: Know his live show in Massachusetts, which I will admit 471 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 1: was a reason why we were like, we should probably 472 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: explain this to everybody before they're like, Hey, what is 473 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: going on with this thing that I heard from Stuff 474 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: you Should Know. Yeah. So, we we've had a couple 475 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: of times when people have we've had visitors to the 476 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 1: office or whatever, and they've been like, Hey, that's so cool. 477 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: Is Tracy here, And I'm like, she's not in today, 478 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: she's teleworking today, which is true, but I didn't but 479 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: the cat wasn't out of the bag and it wasn't 480 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: my information to just blurt out so right, So that 481 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: cat is out of that bag. Now. Thank you, Larry 482 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: for being your segue to that announcement that uh oh right, 483 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: Nate to Mayo also, uh, when we recently sacked Nate 484 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: to Mayo, he was like, yeah, I thought it was 485 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: kind of weird that you went on a vacation to 486 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: uh to Dover. How would you get there from from Atlanta? 487 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: And the answer is on a train from Boston. Yeah. Uh, 488 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: now you know. Now you know the only one of 489 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: us is in Atlanta and the other is in Boston. 490 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: So that's the scoop a roo. Once in a while, 491 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: I mean, Tracy comes back to the House of Works 492 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: main office usually about once a month and sometimes if 493 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: you record here, but usually it's online. So yep, the 494 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: internet is a magical thing. Word. Uh So, thanks very 495 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: much Larry for writing to us about Peabody. I do 496 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: not know why. George Peabody said his name that way. 497 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: I did google why did George Peveny pronounce the name 498 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: in that way? And I did not find answer. Uh, 499 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: it doesn't look exactly like Peabody. So anyway you'd like 500 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: to write to us about this or any other podcast, 501 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: we're a history podcasts of how stuff Works dot com. 502 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: We're also on Facebook at facebook dot com, slash mis 503 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: the History and on Twitter at miss Industry are tumblers 504 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: Miss Industry dot combler dot com. We're also on Pinterest 505 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: at pitts dot com last Miss History. We have a 506 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 1: spreadshirt store where you can get lots of shirts, including 507 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: one that says, I heart exhumations and the heart is 508 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: a real heart. I love that one. Uh. If you 509 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: would like to learn more about what we talked about today, 510 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: you can come to our parent company's website, which is 511 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 1: how stuff Works dot com. And if you put the 512 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: word Zimbabwe in the search bar, you're gonna find a 513 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: couple of articles. One is the top ten most dangerous 514 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: places you should definitely visit. Yeah, there is top ten 515 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: countries operating in the rent That gives you some flavor 516 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: about how things are going in Zoom right now. Uh. 517 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: You canna also come from our website miss in history 518 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: dot com, where you will find an archive of every 519 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: episode we have ever done, and show notes for the 520 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: episodes Holly and I have done lots of other cool stuff. 521 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: They can do all that a whole lot more at 522 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com or mythin history dot com 523 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: for more on this and thousands of other topics, is 524 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 1: it how stuff works dot com