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Speaker 1: Hey everyone, Josh here, and for this week's select, I've

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Speaker 1: chosen our two thousand seventeen episode on Satanism. It proved

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Speaker 1: to be a pretty eye opening episode and was much

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Speaker 1: less upsetting and much more enjoyable than the title might suggest.

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Speaker 1: So sit back, relax, and listen up to how satanism works. Hey, everybody,

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Speaker 1: it's us Josh and Chuck, and we just wanted to

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Speaker 1: say that if you have very strong religious beliefs, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, you may want to skip this one. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: You know, we talked about Satanism in this episode and

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Speaker 1: what seems like glowing terms, but um, for my part,

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Speaker 1: at least, I was just trying to have a little

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Speaker 1: fun with it, So I hope that comes across. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we have an intellectual conversation about Satanism. How about that?

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Speaker 1: All right? Agreed? Alright, Well onto the show, Chuck, Welcome

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Speaker 1: to Stuff you should know, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. Seated directly

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Speaker 1: across from me is one Charles w Wayne Charles Chuckers Bryant.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty good, yells above himself. Ye, and there is

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Speaker 1: um old scratch to my right Matt. Matt, do you

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Speaker 1: let people know your last name? Oh yeah, you're a personality,

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Speaker 1: Matt Frederick, but I don't want him to get kidnapped.

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Speaker 1: Guest producer Matt Frederick of the Old Days, Uh, co

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Speaker 1: host of stuff they don't want you to know, and

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Speaker 1: now supervising producer for podcasts. Man, we don't let our

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Speaker 1: producers talk on our episodes, so we're gonna have to

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Speaker 1: beat that out. Matt says, that was a huge announcement.

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Speaker 1: You just said, yeah, nice, well, congrats Matt, and Matt's

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Speaker 1: been working here forever just like us. Nice, lovely wife,

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Speaker 1: lovely child. Yes, great family, loves Indian food. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know that. Oh yeah, yeah, it's as bread and butter

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Speaker 1: as it were. It's a gey and non Now he's

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Speaker 1: afraid to talk, which he should be. Uh, Matt's here. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So thank you, Matt. And Hail Satan. I was gonna say,

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Speaker 1: Hail Satan, Hail Satan, Chuck hal Satan. Josh. It's funny

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Speaker 1: I went from and when reading this, the thinking Satanists

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Speaker 1: are just libertarians too. No, Satan this are kind of Republicans.

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Speaker 1: And I don't mean that. You'll see what I mean

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Speaker 1: philosophically in some ways I don't mean. And then I thought,

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Speaker 1: I'm a Satanist, did you did you have in a way?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I read some of the stuff and the

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Speaker 1: there f a q on their website and some of

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Speaker 1: their fundamentals, and they're there. There are eleven rules of

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Speaker 1: Earth and their nine Satanic statements. Will read all that stuff.

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Speaker 1: I thought, geez, I agree with a lot of stuff.

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Speaker 1: They're thirteen things to avoid getting gouged at the grocery store.

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Speaker 1: What Satanists are not, almost assuredly, are not uh, evil

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Speaker 1: people who meet in dark churches to perform ritual blood

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Speaker 1: sacrifice and eat hearts and then draw pentagrams on they

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Speaker 1: may draw pagrams. Yeah, that's that parts actually true. But

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Speaker 1: there's there's more things that Satanists are not. I think

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Speaker 1: if you're coming to this blind um without knowing anything,

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Speaker 1: you'll probably be surprised about just how kind of groovy

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Speaker 1: they are. And this is the Church of Satan. But

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about mainly uh No, I think you can

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Speaker 1: you can apply what you just said to all Satanists,

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Speaker 1: because if you're a Satanist, you would take umbrage at

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Speaker 1: the idea that somebody who actually believes in the supernatural

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Speaker 1: entity Satan as not a Satanist, because Satanism, by definition,

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Speaker 1: at least modern Satanism by definition, is an atheistic philosophy.

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Speaker 1: So there's no supernatural entities of any kind to Satanists.

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Speaker 1: So somebody who worshiped Satan would be a devil worshiper.

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Speaker 1: It is a completely different kind of thing. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: the I didn't even finish the last thing. Well, no,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I got off track. The last thing I

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Speaker 1: thought when I was reading about the Temple of Satan

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Speaker 1: is that these are just liberal hippies. The temple is Satan,

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Speaker 1: the Satanic Temple, Satanic Temple. They are they are. Um.

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Speaker 1: I saw them compared to or analogized as a dark

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Speaker 1: yes men. You know, the yes Men. No, oh, you

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Speaker 1: gotta check out the yes Men. There's a couple of

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Speaker 1: yes Men documentaries and they basically do this, but it's

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Speaker 1: not satanically associated. And I wonder why it was satanically associated.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, it sounds like you're a bunch of liberal

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Speaker 1: hippie scientists. To me. Well, we'll get into all that, okay, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So we're talking Satanists and Satanism if you couldn't tell,

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Speaker 1: because we have been saying Satan a lot um. And if,

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Speaker 1: like Chuck said, um, you're coming into this blind, let

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Speaker 1: us illuminate for you, let us bring the light. Then

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Speaker 1: we both group goatees for this episode exactly typically and

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Speaker 1: shaped our heads and horns. Jon and Strickland actually could

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Speaker 1: do a man sort of an amateur Anton LaVey if

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Speaker 1: he wanted to. He could. I'm sure he does at home,

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Speaker 1: if you know what I mean. All right, so let's

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Speaker 1: go back and this is a grabstor article so you

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Speaker 1: know it's got the goods um and talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about the origin story of Satan, which um, we

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Speaker 1: will lead up to sort of what the modern version

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Speaker 1: of that is. But if you're thinking red guy with

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Speaker 1: a pitch fork and pointy hooves, it's uh tries to

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Speaker 1: lure people away from God to do bad things that

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Speaker 1: kind of came around later. So we need to go

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Speaker 1: back further to the Hebrew Bible, which the Christian Old

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Speaker 1: Testament is derived from. And there's a lot of uncertainty

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Speaker 1: on what Satan actually meant, depending on how you want

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Speaker 1: to translate the Hebrew term, right, and the reason there's

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Speaker 1: uncertainty is because Satan wasn't a figure in early Judaism.

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Speaker 1: Because the early Jews believed that all God was all things.

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Speaker 1: God was good, God was evil, God was responsible for

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Speaker 1: everything in the universe. There wasn't what we understand now

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Speaker 1: or anybody who thinks of the Judeo Christian ethic now, um,

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Speaker 1: there wasn't dualism, which is, there's good and the bad,

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Speaker 1: there's light and the dark, and they they equal each

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Speaker 1: other out. And early Judaism this didn't exist. It was

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Speaker 1: all in one, So there was no need for Satan, right.

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Speaker 1: But as this concept of an all benevolent, loving God spread,

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Speaker 1: this question arose, which was, well, wait a minute, if

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Speaker 1: God is just so benevolent and loving, why does he

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Speaker 1: why does he or she um let bad things happen?

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Speaker 1: And so the need for the concept of Satan emerged

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Speaker 1: later on, and because of the um early Judaism's proximity

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Speaker 1: too Persia, which was ruling the land at the time

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Speaker 1: at about like the six to third centuries b c. Um.

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Speaker 1: Persia had Zoroastrianism, which had dualism. So they kind of

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Speaker 1: introduced uh, the Hebrew faith to dualism, and hence Satan

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Speaker 1: was originally born. Yeah, so there's no like consensus when

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Speaker 1: you look at these old texts what these translations mean.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it is an adversary or an opponent to God.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's uh, he's like the the

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Speaker 1: an attorney and than's legal system. Throw in the book

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Speaker 1: at people like um al Pacina. Oh yeah, quite literally.

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Speaker 1: What didn't you play the devil or did he as

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Speaker 1: a lawyer? Right? Devil's advocate with Kanu. I don't think

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Speaker 1: I ever saw that. I didn't either, but I mean

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Speaker 1: we were both alive at the time, so we know.

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Speaker 1: Uh there uh you know, you look at all these

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Speaker 1: different forms of what the word meant back then before

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Speaker 1: it became the modern version we all know. And the

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Speaker 1: one kind of common thread through all of them, though,

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Speaker 1: is that Satan was an outsider who was sort of

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Speaker 1: against the man and these established values that everyone else

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Speaker 1: seemed to believe in right, or established rules or just

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Speaker 1: even the establishment in general. Yes, he's the antithesis of that. Correct.

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Speaker 1: You get into the Christian New Testament and it starts

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Speaker 1: to clear up a bit um where there is a

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Speaker 1: single being called Satan who is supernatural, and it's a

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Speaker 1: direct opposition to God and is usually used as a

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Speaker 1: as a tool God uses as a in the Bible,

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Speaker 1: at least as a test, like go down there and

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Speaker 1: test these humans to see if see see which way

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Speaker 1: their allegiance lay. Right. Um. That Satan's called the scriptural

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Speaker 1: Satan or Satan o the scriptures, right yeah. Um. He

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Speaker 1: also kind of comes out of nowhere in the New

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Speaker 1: Testament to tempt Jesus in the desert, I believe, um.

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Speaker 1: And I mean you know all this right, am I right?

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Speaker 1: It was in the desert? Well yeah, and I think

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Speaker 1: by the way, just to back up to that last

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Speaker 1: episode when the stuttering when I didn't hear the story

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Speaker 1: about Moses the Bible with a coal in his mouth

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Speaker 1: or whatever everyone wrote in it was like, it's not

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Speaker 1: in the Bible. Don't feel bad. It was from something else, right,

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Speaker 1: it was from the Disney movie. Yeah. So um. But

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Speaker 1: in one of the gospels in the New Testament, um,

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Speaker 1: And no need to write in to let us know.

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Speaker 1: But it's in one of the gospels in the New

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Speaker 1: Testament that Satan appears to Jesus to try to tempt him,

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Speaker 1: and he's kind of brought in almost like he's a

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Speaker 1: character that everybody should know. But if you're just reading

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Speaker 1: the New Testament from beginning to end, you're like, what,

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Speaker 1: who's this guy? But they apparently another gospel makes mention

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Speaker 1: that Satan was the serpent in the garden of Eden.

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Speaker 1: So he's a big tempter. He's he's bent on corrupting

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Speaker 1: man and getting man to stray from God's flock. Basically, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and they're these Uh, there's certain demons that are named

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Speaker 1: properly in the Bible, um, like Beelzebub and belly aal um.

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Speaker 1: And again it's just sort of conjecture on our part

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Speaker 1: whether or not that's referring to Satan or whether it's

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Speaker 1: a generic evil. Um, it's just sort of difficult to

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Speaker 1: what it wasn't was the devil with the horns and

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Speaker 1: the pitchfork that we all think about. No, in those

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Speaker 1: earliest names for the devil, like Beelzebub are actually corruptions

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Speaker 1: or alterations of competing religions gods. Right, So, early Christianity

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Speaker 1: and um, I guess Middle Judaism had this kind of

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Speaker 1: tendency to take other religions gods and make them the

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Speaker 1: evil characters and their religions because they wanted Christianity to flourish,

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Speaker 1: right exactly, They wanted to make the competition look bad

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Speaker 1: as a way to do it was a smear tactic

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Speaker 1: in a campaign to get converts. Right. So, biel's Abub

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Speaker 1: is actually a corruption of ballalls of which is you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, ballalls of all, but all the ball the Exalted.

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Speaker 1: I think if you say that one more time, people

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Speaker 1: appear um and ball be a apostrophe. A l was

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Speaker 1: the main deity of the Canaanites and the Phoenicians who

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Speaker 1: were competing with the early Christians at the time. And um,

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Speaker 1: if you say balls of that means lord of the flies,

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Speaker 1: not lowerd the Exalted. So it was like it was

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Speaker 1: a slam on their the main their competition's main god.

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Speaker 1: And that's where biel Zebub came from. And that's actually

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Speaker 1: that will become a common play in the Christian playbook

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Speaker 1: of smearing the other guy's gods by making them um

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Speaker 1: evil figures in Christian mythology. Platoon Rata bals Abub. Remember

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Speaker 1: there was a Dead Milkman album called Bell's a Bubba. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it had like that guy on a tractor on the

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Speaker 1: cover that was bla um well, the same with Lucifer.

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Speaker 1: And when we finally got the English language King James

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Speaker 1: Bible in sixteen eleven, Lucifer was really a Latin term

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Speaker 1: for morning star. But in that version of the Bible

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Speaker 1: they say, no, what that really is is the name

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Speaker 1: of Satan, right, And he was the light bringer, the

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Speaker 1: one who would reveal the truth to people that they

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Speaker 1: were actually being held down by God. Yeah, which is

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Speaker 1: not the Christian way, right. So what you were saying

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Speaker 1: by co opting all these are not co opting but well,

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Speaker 1: kind of co opting these bad religions another band, um,

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Speaker 1: that's actually a real band name. Yeah, correct, Uh, these

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Speaker 1: bad religions and saying those are the bad ones. They would.

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Speaker 1: That's how the like the devil that we know today,

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Speaker 1: the Satan sorry that we know today, has taken shape

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Speaker 1: because they like the Greek god Pan had the cloven

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Speaker 1: hoofs and the horns. Uh back us. The Roman god

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Speaker 1: is where you get this insatiable um Bacchanalian decadence um, which,

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Speaker 1: as we'll see with the Church of Satan um is

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Speaker 1: it too far off? They certainly love their orgies and

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Speaker 1: they're trades of fine meats and roasted Meats and Jesus. UM.

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Speaker 1: So in the Middle Ages and the Renaissance, then this

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Speaker 1: this mythology, Christian mythology has expanded. You get a couple

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Speaker 1: of books that were very key into shaping who we

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Speaker 1: think of today as Satan. One was John Milton's epic

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Speaker 1: poem Paradise Lost. Then of course Dante's Divine Comedy. Um,

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Speaker 1: this is where we got the idea that Satan was

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Speaker 1: an angel expelled from heaven because of his pride, who

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Speaker 1: then said Tony will defeat to the Lord. These are

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Speaker 1: actually from two books written by dudes. Yeah, a lot

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Speaker 1: of the mythology about Satan that Christians understand as Satan,

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Speaker 1: and that just people in the culture generally understand is

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Speaker 1: Satan don't show up anywhere in the actual Bible, Old

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Speaker 1: Testament or New Testament. All that stuff came afterwards, So

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Speaker 1: chuck the The Enlightenment was another turning point then big

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Speaker 1: time for the conception of Satan. And this is his

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Speaker 1: evolution is like a scary, supernatural, otherworldly figure. Um takes

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Speaker 1: a different turn because the Enlightenment was based on rational thought.

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Speaker 1: Secular humanism finds its roots in the Enlightenment, and um,

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Speaker 1: they started to come to see Satan as a kind

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Speaker 1: of a creative force, almost uh foil to the establishment,

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Speaker 1: this idea that Satan is um the opposite of the

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Speaker 1: established norms and customs and moral goods um, and that

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Speaker 1: he's kind of like a handy archetype for that. So

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Speaker 1: he stops, he loses some of his supernatural um, yes,

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Speaker 1: and is replaced by metaphorical Yeah. And I think that's

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Speaker 1: that seems to be the one that the Church of

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Speaker 1: Satan sort of identified with a little more. Was it

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Speaker 1: Satan was just a just a freethinking dude. Yeah, apparently

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Speaker 1: that's where they that's where it finds its roots. Was

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Speaker 1: the Enlightenment very interesting, which makes sense because most Satanists

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Speaker 1: would be probably humanists secular humanists, um, although they're individualists.

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Speaker 1: But you can make a case that that's an individual

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Speaker 1: humanism um. And that's you know, that comes out of

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Speaker 1: the Enlightenment as well. So, um, you want to take

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Speaker 1: a break and then keep going, or you want to

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Speaker 1: keep going, Let's take a break and we'll talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about witches right after this. So I promised

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Speaker 1: talk of witches. Um, we did it in the jeez,

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Speaker 1: that was a long time ago. We did an episode

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Speaker 1: on Witchcraft UM many many years ago, and if you

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Speaker 1: are a witch or a Western esoteric, you were probably

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Speaker 1: one of two groups of people to be accused of

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Speaker 1: worshiping Satan in the Middle Ages and the Renaissance. UM. Basically,

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Speaker 1: anything anything in opposition to organized Christianity was Satan worship, right,

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Speaker 1: And that's the same thing as as saying your God,

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Speaker 1: your creator, Deity is like Satan and our religion. It's

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Speaker 1: the same thing. Anything that's in opposition to Christian thought

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Speaker 1: is automatically heretical, heretical, and the kind of almost like

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Speaker 1: the lazy shorthand way of describing it is it's Satanic.

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Speaker 1: You know, Satan, He's scary and evil, right, Well, what

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Speaker 1: these people think is satanic? Yeah, And if you listen

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Speaker 1: to the episode on Witchcraft, UM, and we haven't, I

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Speaker 1: know stuff you miss in history class did a good

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Speaker 1: episode on what really happened in Salem, which will probably

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Speaker 1: cover that at some point I mentioned, but I think

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Speaker 1: everyone pretty much knows at this point about sixty people,

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Speaker 1: mainly women, were put to death in the American colonies,

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Speaker 1: in Europe and UM under the guise of being Satan

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Speaker 1: worshippers and witches and practicing witchery, and by all accounts,

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Speaker 1: they generally were you know that, I don't like the

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Speaker 1: way that lady looked at me in the town today,

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Speaker 1: or you know what she I think she stole milk

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Speaker 1: from my cow, or I want her land, or I

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Speaker 1: want her land, or um, my wife is jealous of her. Um.

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Speaker 1: So they're all witches. Let's burn them. Let's throw them

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Speaker 1: in lakes and see if they float. Um, and let's

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Speaker 1: burn them because if they don't float, then they're not

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Speaker 1: which is drowned. And and early physicians had more than

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Speaker 1: just a small hand in this as well. They in

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Speaker 1: accusing especially like folk healers and midwives of being witches

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Speaker 1: again to basically forced the competition out. Yeah, where do

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Speaker 1: we talk about that one? In that seem more recent?

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Speaker 1: Remember maybe Great Robbin They talk about that in Great

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Speaker 1: Robbing feels like it does. There were also things called

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Speaker 1: esoteric orders, which were I don't even know what you

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Speaker 1: would call that today, basically kind of any group that

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Speaker 1: didn't subscribe to mainstream Christianity, so like the Mason's or

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Speaker 1: the Illuminati thing. Uh yeah, and like they were Christian

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Speaker 1: at base gnostics, but then they had like, yeah, they

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Speaker 1: had this other occult ideas in addition to it. Right,

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Speaker 1: So like the Kaither's or Cather's are a good example

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Speaker 1: of that. They were in I think like the twelfth

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Speaker 1: of fourteenth century France, and they were like Christian plus right,

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Speaker 1: they were they Caither's means like the pure ones um.

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Speaker 1: They were so Christian that they felt like just being

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Speaker 1: a normal, pious Christian wasn't enough, and you actually had

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Speaker 1: to be baptized again but basically like a born again

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Speaker 1: Christian process. But in again like twelve thirteenth century France,

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Speaker 1: they were considered heretics and they were persecuted. You could

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Speaker 1: call them an esoteric order because it didn't follow prescribed Christianity,

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Speaker 1: orthodox establishment Christianity to a t. It either was lacking

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Speaker 1: some or had extra and then you're you're a heretic.

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Speaker 1: And hence Satanists and esoteric order believed in Dan brown

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Speaker 1: books basically that that all that stuff is true. All

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Speaker 1: the stuff he writes about is about like esoteric orders. Well,

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Speaker 1: and here's the thing though, they were all labeled as Satanists.

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Speaker 1: But but there's there's no evidence whatsoever that any of

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Speaker 1: them we're Satanic. And like in truth. Yeah, you know, well,

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Speaker 1: I was reading about one the Luciferians. They actually they

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Speaker 1: may have been, although their concept of Satan wasn't that

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Speaker 1: he was evil. Their concept was that he was the

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Speaker 1: one true deity and that he had been tricked into

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Speaker 1: being kicked out of heaven unfairly by a treacherous Jehovah,

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Speaker 1: and that um, it was actually Lucifer who was supposed

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Speaker 1: to be in charge, and that Jehovah was oppressing everybody.

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Speaker 1: So if that's true, then yes, as far as the

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Speaker 1: Church goes out, is as satanic as you can possibly

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Speaker 1: get in your beliefs, because they were in total opposition

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Speaker 1: to the Church in their beliefs as well. But that's

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Speaker 1: I mean, for the most part, most of these other

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Speaker 1: groups were not in any way, shape or form satanic

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Speaker 1: as as you would think of it today. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and Ed even points out and here the grabster that

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Speaker 1: by that that there's there's no evidence in world history

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Speaker 1: that there's ever been any long term organized group of

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Speaker 1: people that worship Satan as some evil entity. That's a

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Speaker 1: huge one, because that's that's one of the ways that

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Speaker 1: Christianity was able to smear its rivals by by suggesting

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Speaker 1: that they were part of a huge, massive cult, Satanic cult.

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Speaker 1: And I mean like, if if there's a supernatural entity

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Speaker 1: that's bent on getting you and making your life terrible,

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Speaker 1: and there's actually people on earth who are following this person,

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Speaker 1: it's going to make you stay to the straight and

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Speaker 1: narrow of your prescribed religion even more, right, Baron Brimstone

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Speaker 1: and whatnot. Yes, I grew up with that, you know, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was. I can't remember which show I think it

340
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Speaker 1: was during Satanic Panic. We talked about the Devil Worship

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Speaker 1: House in Stone Mountain that it was the scariest place

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Speaker 1: I had ever driven past on the way to steak in.

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Speaker 1: Ale Man, I mistaken, Ale? Are they done? They're surely

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Speaker 1: they're around, right, There's probably like one in Vegas and

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Speaker 1: one in Hong Kong or something weird like that. It

346
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Speaker 1: would be funny for the one on Hong Kong was

347
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Speaker 1: like this retroobrack themed American thing, you know, it's like

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Speaker 1: America in the eighties. Um, all right, well let's talk

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Speaker 1: about Anton LaVey. Then what time has come? Oh wait,

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Speaker 1: I want to I want to say one more thing. Um,

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Speaker 1: So in the I think the fourteenth century, the Knights templar,

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Speaker 1: another esoteric order, but a military order. We're accused of

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Speaker 1: worshiping Batha Met, and Batha Met is Satan with like

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Speaker 1: the goat's head and horns. Um, that's the great looking

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Speaker 1: statue they tried to put up in Oklahoma. Right, Well,

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Speaker 1: Batha Met is most likely an alteration or mistranslation or

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Speaker 1: something of Mohammed, and that it was used to basically

358
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Speaker 1: include Mohammed as uh Satan in the Christian ethos when

359
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Speaker 1: the Christians first encountered Muslims during the Crusades. So it

360
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Speaker 1: was like the same thing, but a thousand years after

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Speaker 1: they did it to Biel's Abub, they did it to Mohammed.

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Speaker 1: And we should do like a tin parter on the

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Speaker 1: Crusades starting now. I just tried to think of I

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Speaker 1: would be up for that. I don't know. I don't

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Speaker 1: think so. Um, all right, can we invite Anton LaVey

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Speaker 1: in the Ghost of Anton LaVey it is Jonathan's strickling. Uh.

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Speaker 1: So this dude, he was born. He is the founder

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Speaker 1: of the Church of Satan. If you did not know that, Um,

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Speaker 1: a cup of picture of him. You've probably seen him before.

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Speaker 1: Bald head goatee. Uh you know. It does bug me

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Speaker 1: about all Satanists is if you just look up photos

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Speaker 1: of prominent ones or meetings, they're always doing these faces.

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Speaker 1: Yeah like you never I mean actually, ironically, the only

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Speaker 1: one I've ever seen smile in a picture is the

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Speaker 1: current High Priestess. His name is Peggy, which I think

376
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Speaker 1: is adorable. She's this is a cute old lady. Yeah

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Speaker 1: and not even that old, but yeah, she's like really

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Speaker 1: old lady. Huh yeah, oh no, she smiles and photos,

379
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Speaker 1: but every other picture, like you know, their eyes are

380
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Speaker 1: big and they're frowning or they're licking their teeth or something.

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Speaker 1: Come on. I was on the True Your Statan website

382
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Speaker 1: yesterday and um, I saw a picture of some Satanists

383
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Speaker 1: all smiling. But it was because Anton LaVey had a

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Speaker 1: naked woman over his knee and a spanking area. So

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Speaker 1: they do smile in some pictures. Okay, yeah, well that

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Speaker 1: makes sense. So Levey was born Howard Howard Leave Howard

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Speaker 1: Stanton Leave in Chicago, and um, the more I read

388
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Speaker 1: about him and his early years supposed early years, the

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Speaker 1: more he sounded like l Ron Hubbard. Yeah kind of,

390
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Speaker 1: because um, l Ron Hubbard and Anton LaVey both. If

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Speaker 1: you ask them about their backgrounds, they'll tell you one thing.

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Speaker 1: If you ask someone else, others who like Lawrence Wright,

393
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Speaker 1: who does research, they say, I really can't find any

394
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Speaker 1: evidence of this stuff that they claimed. Yeah. I mean,

395
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Speaker 1: if there was anyone who subscribed to lying, it's just

396
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Speaker 1: as much as you possibly could. As a form of showmanship,

397
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Speaker 1: Anton LaVey was definitely that guy. Yeah. So he says

398
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Speaker 1: that he had a very colorful upbringing. He worked at

399
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Speaker 1: a circus, he was worked at side shows. He was

400
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: a police photographer, which may have been true. He was

401
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 1: a very talented organist who worked burlesque shows. Um. If

402
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 1: you ask other people who have done research, they say, now,

403
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: kind of was this suburban kid in suburban San Francisco

404
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: not super interesting? Um. One thing that everyone will say, though,

405
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 1: is that he was interested in the occult. He was

406
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: interested in pulp horror novels and magazines, love Craft, love

407
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: love craft, and he was interested in Uh. He was

408
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 1: very much turned off by the double standards what he

409
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: perceived to be the double standards of mainstream Christianity, because

410
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Speaker 1: supposedly he would playing these burlesque shows and see how

411
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Speaker 1: these men there then the next day see them in

412
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Speaker 1: the churches, and that had a real impact on him,

413
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Speaker 1: supposedly that he was just like this is yes, yeah,

414
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Speaker 1: he didn't like phonies, phones, driving crazy m and holding Caufield. Right.

415
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 1: Uh so the in um the nineteen sixties and this

416
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: is kind of like with l Ron Hubard again. He

417
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: started Levey started hosting these lectures on paranormal and he

418
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: had a lot of h flair, and everyone was like, man,

419
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: who is this guy's kind of cool? And he talks

420
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Speaker 1: about things like indulging in all the worldly things. You

421
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: shouldn't feel bad about it. You should masturbate and have

422
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: sex and have sex with tons of people at once

423
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: if you want, and just do whatever pleases you. It's fine,

424
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 1: don't worry about it. And so people in the sixties

425
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 1: were like, there was a time in the late sixties

426
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: where he was there's this great article in the Telegraph

427
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 1: when when he seduced Hot when Satanism seduced Hollywood or

428
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: something like that, where it was sort of the thing

429
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 1: two be a Satanist and to go to these parties

430
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: because you would go in and and there would be

431
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 1: drugs and ink and nakedness, like eyes wide shut up

432
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: in there and everyone from like some of the Beach

433
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: Boys to Sammy Davis Jr. Too. Liberaci Liberacci was a Satanist.

434
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: He said he was for a while. I didn't know that. Uh,

435
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: Sammy Davis Jr. Definitely was. He even had a TV pilot, uh,

436
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 1: that he tried to get made about like a sitcom

437
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 1: that was Satan friendly that he like worked for the

438
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: Devil or something that it was supposed to be really bad,

439
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 1: and he had only made one of them. But um, oh,

440
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: so there is So it's out there somewhere. Well, supposedly

441
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 1: you made a pilot that never went beyond that. Jane

442
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: Mansfield was another famous Satanist. Yeah, so it was a

443
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: big thing and Charles Manson kind of ruined all that.

444
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: Oh yeahs being cool to go to the Church of Satan.

445
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: But at any rate, Levee was making waves and in

446
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six created officially the Church of Satan. In

447
00:28:55,640 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine published the Satanic Bible, which is pretty

448
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 1: interesting to read through. I never read it all, but

449
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: I read quite a bit of So. One of the

450
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: things that he's accused of is um plagiarism and his

451
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: his adherence still to this day, they kind of acknowledge

452
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: it a little bit, but they more put it like, no,

453
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: he was building on an earlier work, but he didn't

454
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 1: really give credit to But there was a book, UM

455
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: so he wrote the Satanic Bible in sixty nine publish UM.

456
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: There was a book published in eighteen ninety, I think

457
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: it was UM called Might Is Right and it was

458
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: written pseudonymously by UM a guy named ragnar Red Beard.

459
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: Ragnar Red Beard wrote this book and it was extremely

460
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: um into social Darwinism. It was individualistic to the point

461
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: of being anarchistic. It had all of the requisite eighteen

462
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: nineties racism and sexism attended to it as well. But um,

463
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: the point of it was is like like, why would you,

464
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: you know, love your enemies? This whole doctrine of love

465
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: is bs where animals and if you have an enemy

466
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 1: should go out and beat him up because there's your enemy.

467
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: You don't need to love him, you need to love yourself.

468
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: And UM. It was really just a surprising book that

469
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: apparently still a lot of people read today. UM. And

470
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: apparently Anton LaVey read it and adopted a lot of it.

471
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: But then he also wrote a lot about ritual and

472
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: stuff as well and prescribe certain kinds of rituals in

473
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: the Satanic Bible and supposedly the three main types of

474
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: rituals of greater magic. There's greater magic and lesser magic.

475
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: But in the greater magic um rituals there is UH compassion,

476
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: there's UH and that's not just for others but also yourself.

477
00:30:54,400 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: There's lust, and then there is um destruction. Yes, and

478
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: all of them are meant as they're meant for you. Yeah,

479
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: the person doing this, they're meant for you. There meant

480
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: is it what was called the intellectual decompression chamber where

481
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: you can just get rid of this baggage that you've got.

482
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 1: And they're like, it's it's nothing more than this little

483
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: psycho drama that you're performing for yourself to just make

484
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: yourself feel better. Yeah, Like lust is to release your

485
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: sexual urges. Like they'll say, Christianity teaches you to repress

486
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,959
Speaker 1: all that stuff that ain't that ain't no good for you.

487
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 1: You need to go release uh these urges. Yeah, you're

488
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: walking around with all this stuff that's like hanging on you, Like,

489
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: get rid of it so you can go be happy

490
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: and stop dwelling on this. It's the same with destruction,

491
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: cleansing oneself of anger towards someone who has done you

492
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: a injustice, Like why sit on that deal with it?

493
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: You're sitting there stewing about it. Smash the face, go

494
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: put on your velvet robe. Well no, no, that was

495
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: that was But that was that's That's something that Satanism

496
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: has long been accused of, is like being violent toward others.

497
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 1: And I don't think that they say, like, no, don't

498
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: be violent toward others. Um they even say like you

499
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: don't certainly don't owe anybody being nice to him or

500
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: anything like that. But um, there there seems to be

501
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: kind of a I haven't seen any overt calls to violence.

502
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: It just seems to be like a if if that's

503
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: what you deem is right, as long as you're following

504
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: these other prescribed paths that seem to kind of avoid violence,

505
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 1: that it's more just like you. It's it's centered on you,

506
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 1: and you need to focus on yourself. And if you

507
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: focus on yourself, then you're probably going to stop wanting

508
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: to smash that other guy in the face, because you're

509
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: gonna get rid of that baggage. Can I read the

510
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: eleven Satanic Rules? Of the earth please. Number one. Do

511
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: not give opinions or advice unless you were asked. Okay, bad.

512
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: Number two. Do not tell your troubles to others unless

513
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: you are sure they want to hear them. Yeah's not bad.

514
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: Number three. When in another's layer, show him respect or

515
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: else do not go there respect some one's home. Number four.

516
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 1: If a guest in your layer annoys you, treat him

517
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: cruelly and without mercy. Number five. Do not make sexual

518
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: advances unless you are given the mating signal. That's sort

519
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 1: of that's a sixties way of saying, I'm down with

520
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: affirmative consent. Do not take that which does not belong

521
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: to you unless it is a burden to the other

522
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: person and he cries out to be relieved. Okay, like

523
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: you know. Don't rob people of stuff. Relieve me of

524
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: this glass of diet coke. I can't stop drinking. Number seven.

525
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it

526
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power

527
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: of magic after having called upon it with success, you

528
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: will lose all you have obtained. That's a little pruty.

529
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: I didn't even hear that full when I trailed off,

530
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: so long number eight, do not complain about anything to

531
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: which you need not subjec act yourself. And finally, yeah,

532
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: that's a good I think that one bears repeating. Oh wait,

533
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: I say, finally, that's only right. Oh you want me

534
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,840
Speaker 1: to repeat that, please do not complain about anything to

535
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: which you need not subject yourself. Or nine do not

536
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: harm little children. But I should probably repeat that one too,

537
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 1: do not harm little children, because that's a big deal.

538
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: There are all these people that think, like, you know you,

539
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,760
Speaker 1: uh you, you sacrificed children and you have perform sex

540
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: with children, and that's what Satanists do, and they're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

541
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: we're not into that at all. No. One of the

542
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 1: things that the Satanic Temple who will talk about in

543
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: a little while point out is that um, there have

544
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: been a lot of cases of UM people who are

545
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: supposedly exercising demons from children, who have actually harmed and

546
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: in fact killed children, and that there's no doubt. I

547
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: think we talked about this in the Satanic Panic episode two.

548
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: There's no documented cases of Satanists harming children because they're

549
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: against it, and in fact, they won't even accept anyone

550
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 1: under the age of eighteen into the church. Yeah, because

551
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: self consent is extremely important to Satanists of all stripes.

552
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 1: The idea of being forced into indoctrinated into any church

553
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: before you're you can make a decision for yourself really

554
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: goes against the idea of individual liberty and thus Satanic

555
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: thought number ten. Do not kill non human animals because,

556
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: like you said, they called humans animals too. In fact,

557
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 1: they said that we're not much better even than animals.

558
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: Just an animal reminder, it is, do not kill non

559
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: human animals unless you are attacked or for your food,

560
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: like if a cheetah pounces on you kill it if

561
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 1: you want to eat the cheetah. Uh. And then finally,

562
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: drum roll eleven Satanic rules of the Earth. When walking

563
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 1: into open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you

564
00:35:55,239 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: asked him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him. Nice.

565
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: It sounds like a tenacious d lyric, it does. But

566
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: the way you you counted down it was like a

567
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 1: letterman list like that. That was good man, I miss Dave.

568
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: I wonder how many um long time listeners we've lost

569
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 1: with this episode. I don't know. Uh, do you want

570
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: to take another break? Yeah? I mean, there's still so

571
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: much more, but we gotta break at some point. Yeah,

572
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: we're gonna take a break, all right, Chuck, We're back

573
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 1: with Satan. Remember the kids in the hall? Oh yeah,

574
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: Kevin McDonald, I think with Satan. Uh was that him? Yeah,

575
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 1: that's good stuff. Uh. So we've been talking a little

576
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 1: bit about the philosophies of the Church of Satan. Um

577
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: just real quickly, there are nine Satanic sins and again,

578
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 1: I hate to say it, but this is sort of

579
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 1: appealing to my brain. The nine Satanic sins or stupidity, pretentiousness,

580
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 1: solop sis um self, deceit, herd, conformity, lack of perspective, forgetfulness,

581
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: forgetfulness past orthodoxes, counterproductive pride, and lack of aesthetics. A

582
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: lot of those are really really tough to explain. Anton LaVey, Well,

583
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 1: some of them are pretty self evident, but um forgetfulness

584
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: of past orthodoxes. Levy wrote this list in seven and

585
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 1: it's on the Church of Satan website. If you're interested

586
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: to go check it out because it's some of them.

587
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, yeah, it kind of makes sense. Sixty

588
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: seven eighty seven I saw oh really well as copyrighted

589
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: so the takeaway is that what's leavey what the church

590
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: is Satan and lava in Satanism, what it really is

591
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: is atheistic, anti Christian. Ah, well, that is something that

592
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 1: you said, that's really important. The Church of Satan, specifically

593
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: the one founded by Anton LaVey Is has positioned itself

594
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: as counter to Christianity. It really does not like Christianity.

595
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: Um and as a result, it's allowed itself to kind

596
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 1: of be drawn into a lot of pedantic nous and

597
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 1: arguments that it shouldn't And it almost seems like they

598
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: feel they need to justify themselves because of putting themselves

599
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: in that position. Um. So if that kind of turns

600
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: you off, well then friends, you're gonna love the Satanic Temple. Yeah.

601
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,399
Speaker 1: And if if you were interested in that, you can

602
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 1: become a member of the Church of Satan by sending

603
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: two hundred dollars to a po box right that you

604
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: can find on their website. But you get a membership,

605
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 1: hard and that's it. That's all you get. Yeah. And

606
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: there's there's actually a lot of criticism among Satanists of

607
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 1: the Church of Satan because, um, you know, they they

608
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: haven't done anything for a really long time. And a

609
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 1: lot of people give credit to Levy for founding the

610
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 1: Church of Satan and that while he was alive the

611
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,839
Speaker 1: churches started thriving, but after he died, the church kind

612
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,799
Speaker 1: of died with him in the eyes of a lot

613
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: of Satanists, especially Satanic Temple adherents that I've seen. Yeah,

614
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 1: it's now headed by Peter Gilmore, who I think. I

615
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 1: think John Hodgman is actually sort of a pal of his.

616
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:34,720
Speaker 1: Now I believe that. I have to say it showed

617
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: a lot of restraint by Peter Gilmore and not to

618
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 1: change his name to Peter grim More. Uh. And then,

619
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 1: as I mentioned earlier, Peggy the drama as the High

620
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 1: Priestess right now, but I agree. Moving on to the

621
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: Satanic Temple, it's pretty fun because they have something out

622
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 1: there called the Satanic Children's Big Book of Activities. I

623
00:39:57,880 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: think it was given to me by by Matt Frederick,

624
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 1: was given to me by someone, but it's called the

625
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: Satanic Children's Big Book of Activities. Uh, and it's wonderful.

626
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: We talked about that for sure on Internet round Up

627
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 1: for sure. And um, that was just like one and

628
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 1: a string of I don't want to say countless because

629
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 1: if I bothered too. I could count them, but there was.

630
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 1: There's like a string of basically political, Satanic based political

631
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 1: um projects that the Satanic Temple has taken on that

632
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: really kind of define who they are, right. They are

633
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: part performance art, very much political activists and are trying

634
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 1: to basically use They say that they they're using Satanism,

635
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: although they all subscribe to philosophical, atheistic human secularism, Satanism

636
00:40:53,719 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: minus the social Darwinism and the ie Ran libertarianism um

637
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 1: that they're they're using Satanism though in the popular conception

638
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:10,359
Speaker 1: as a poison pill for the church versus State debate, right, yeah,

639
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 1: and you can also buy shirts and hoodies and coffee,

640
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 1: so with this they use this poison pill. These lists

641
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 1: of projects. One of them was the Satanic Children's Activity Book,

642
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 1: which they printed up to distribute at schools. I think

643
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 1: there is a school in Florida where Christian evangelists were

644
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: handing out pamphlets at a public school. So the Satanists said, oh, well, great, Well,

645
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: if they can do it, then any religion can do it.

646
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 1: Because the First Amendment prohibits the establishment of any religion

647
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,879
Speaker 1: or endorsement of religion by the by the government, so

648
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:43,879
Speaker 1: we can go do it too, so they start handing

649
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,919
Speaker 1: out Satanic stuff. And anytime the Satanists roll into town

650
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: and say us too, that usually means that the local

651
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: city council or the state even puts an end to

652
00:41:53,920 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: the implicit Christian endorsement of what that's going on. Christian

653
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:04,880
Speaker 1: endorsement via politics. Um. And by the way, when I

654
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 1: say that that children's work book is wonderful and if

655
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: you're out there going why did you say that? I

656
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 1: go check it out. It's literally stories about kids being

657
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 1: more accepting of others and being friendly and sharing. And

658
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 1: it's like any children's book, but the kids wearing like

659
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,760
Speaker 1: the Instagram teachers and stuff. Yeah, which makes me wonder,

660
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 1: like what about this? Why called themselves that? It seems

661
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 1: like they just are another trying to rabl rouse and

662
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,720
Speaker 1: get attention. But I think they might get a little

663
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,879
Speaker 1: further if or maybe that's the whole point. I think

664
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 1: we'll in part using it as the like if you

665
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 1: this actually happened. There's a town in Arizona, I'm not

666
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,280
Speaker 1: sure which one, but they had a habit of opening

667
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:52,240
Speaker 1: their city council meetings with a Christian prayer. Well, most

668
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,320
Speaker 1: likely every single person in that town that the city

669
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 1: council represents is not Christian um. But since it was,

670
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: there was a there was some landmark court ruling I

671
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 1: can't remember when, maybe two thousand fourteen UM or the

672
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:10,839
Speaker 1: Supreme Court said, uh no, it's actually okay as long

673
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: as they don't prohibit any religions from doing this. The

674
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: Satanists showed up and said, well, here comes the Satanist

675
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:19,760
Speaker 1: We're gonna give a benediction to open up your city

676
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,879
Speaker 1: council meeting. And the city council said, okay, nobody's gonna

677
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 1: do prayers anymore. That's kind of what their job is,

678
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 1: to shut it down. But if they if they just

679
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 1: did it like, well, the secular humanists are here and

680
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 1: we're gonna say a prayerybody be like, well, who cares.

681
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:36,399
Speaker 1: That's fine. But the people who are so afraid of

682
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: Satanists are so afraid of Satanists that they are um

683
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 1: there there. They would just they would rather stop the

684
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 1: city council implicitly endorsing the Christian prayer than to allow

685
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 1: the Satanic prayer as well. That's how it works, and

686
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 1: it's the same with the statue in Oklahoma, he said, Oh, well,

687
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 1: you're gonna put up your statute. We're we're gonna put

688
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:02,720
Speaker 1: up one of what's it called baff Met which again

689
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 1: I know you've seen the statue. We both love it

690
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 1: just because it's so cool looking. It looks like the

691
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 1: cover of some great heavy metal album. It does. But

692
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: it's like lying, yeah, the two kids looking up adoringly

693
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 1: at him and chuck. The Satanic Temple has another thing

694
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: going on right now too, a new initiative that they

695
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 1: started right which is the after School Satan Club. And

696
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 1: again I have to laugh. It just sounds funny, but

697
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 1: what it is, it's an after school curriculum um to

698
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 1: teach reasoning and social skills to kids basis and again

699
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,399
Speaker 1: as a counter something called the Good News Club, which

700
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 1: is an Evangelical Christian after school program. So again they're saying,

701
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 1: you got yours, will have ours. Yeah, And there's another

702
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,800
Speaker 1: two thousand one Supreme Court ruling that said, you know what, sure,

703
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 1: we can have religious after school programs. And the the

704
00:44:55,840 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: just the floodgates opened and the Lucian grieves, who's name

705
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:02,359
Speaker 1: is Doug Mesner. He's one of the founders of the

706
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 1: Satanic Temple he says, we're doing this because the Good

707
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 1: News Club is creating a need for it. If they were,

708
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: if they were just doing this in churches rather than

709
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: public schools, we wouldn't have our after school Satan club.

710
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,760
Speaker 1: But they are, so we are. Yeah, here's a quote.

711
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 1: While the Good News Club focuses on indoctrination, stilling children

712
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,720
Speaker 1: with a fear of hell and God's wrath, after school

713
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 1: Satan clubs will focus on free inquiry and rationalism. We

714
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 1: prefer to give children appreciation of the natural wonders surrounding them,

715
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:37,280
Speaker 1: not a fear of an everlasting otherworldly horror. Uh. However,

716
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,399
Speaker 1: being a member of the Satan Temple or the Church

717
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 1: of Satan is not to say that you can just

718
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 1: be very much out with it these days. A lot

719
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:51,280
Speaker 1: of those folks, even if they are really just secular

720
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 1: humanist atheist at heart, they do want to associate with

721
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 1: the Satanic templar churches Satan. They a lot of times,

722
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 1: you'll still keep it quiet, keep it a secret, because um,

723
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 1: you will get people don't get what it's about, and

724
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:08,439
Speaker 1: they will think, well, again, the people still believe that they,

725
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 1: you know, have blood sacrifice, and you know sacrifice animals

726
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,319
Speaker 1: and eat the hearts out of goats and things like that. Right,

727
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 1: And there have been people in history, um, who have

728
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 1: killed in the name of Satan. Sure, and that's who

729
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 1: people point to and say, see see Satanists or killers.

730
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 1: And it's like, no, that person was out of their mind.

731
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,840
Speaker 1: They're mentally ill, or they were pretending to be mentally

732
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 1: ill so that they would get a lighter sentence, and

733
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,800
Speaker 1: that's what they were doing. That they weren't actual Satanists. Again,

734
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 1: a true Satanists will point out that um, Satanists are atheists,

735
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:45,280
Speaker 1: that they see Satan as a construct, as a metaphor

736
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 1: shorthand for something that goes against the norms, that questions

737
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:52,359
Speaker 1: the establishment and says, how do you know what you're

738
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 1: saying is right? Is right? Who says yeah, and we

739
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: don't even worship Satan per se? We really if you

740
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:02,800
Speaker 1: want to say anything worse of ourselves as individual gods.

741
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 1: Peter Gilmore calls it I theism that's catchy in the

742
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 1: lower case I. He's like, yes, Gilmore, Eugenius, what did

743
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 1: you say? His name should have been grim more and

744
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 1: more or kill more? Um. Yeah. Richard Ramirez, David Berkowitz,

745
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 1: Son of Sam talked about demons um Ricky Casso famously

746
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 1: in the seventies, I was an American teen who killed

747
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 1: someone in the name of Satan and much too Angus

748
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 1: Young Chagrin was hauled into court with this a C

749
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 1: d C T shirt on. Uh, we're not gonna get

750
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 1: too much into this because you can go listen to

751
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: our great episode on the Satanic Panic of the eighties

752
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: from January five. But um, in short, it was a

753
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,320
Speaker 1: It was a time where people like Ozzy Osbourne and

754
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 1: Judas Priest were making use of Satanic imagery purely for

755
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:03,359
Speaker 1: gags and selling wreck words. Uh, none of it was.

756
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 1: I mean today there are some legit creepy dark metal bands.

757
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 1: They are very much more overt with their lyrics and things.

758
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 1: But I think Ozzy Osbourne has definitely been outed as

759
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 1: you know, not some Satan worshiping google. You know, anyone

760
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 1: who's ever seen him on television can tell you that. Yeah,

761
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 1: And I mean it bears fleshing out. There are there

762
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 1: are like supposedly the Goths scene in UM Germany in

763
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 1: particulars where um neo Nazism and Neopaganism kind of come together.

764
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: A lot of people point to that as some sort

765
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 1: of neo Satanism. But again, if you're talking about Satanism

766
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:53,840
Speaker 1: with a capitalist as an atheistic philosophy, and somebody murdering

767
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 1: in the name of Satan holds about as much water

768
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:59,239
Speaker 1: as somebody murdering in the name of the Easter Bunny,

769
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 1: you got any thing else? Yeah? This is Let me

770
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: quote with a finish with a passage from the Satanic

771
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:09,359
Speaker 1: Bible on love. Satanism has been thought of as being

772
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 1: synonymous with cruelty and brutality. This is only so because

773
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:15,840
Speaker 1: people are afraid to face the truth, and the truth

774
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 1: is that human beings are not all benign, are all loving.

775
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:21,839
Speaker 1: Just because the Satanist admits he is capable of both

776
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:24,840
Speaker 1: love and hate, he is considered hateful. On the contrary,

777
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 1: because he's able to give vent to his hatred through

778
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 1: ritualized expression, he is far more capable of love, the

779
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 1: deepest kind of love, by honestly recognizing and admitting to

780
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 1: both the hate and the love he feels. There's no

781
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 1: confusing one emotion with the other. Without being able to

782
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:46,439
Speaker 1: experience one of these emotions, you cannot fully experience the other. Wow.

783
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 1: Either Dr SEUs or Anton LaVey that Zoroastrian dualism if

784
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 1: I've ever heard it. Uh. Well, if you want to

785
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 1: know more about Satanism, well go look up this article.

786
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 1: It's a Aubster article um on how stuff works dot com.

787
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 1: And since I said grabs, there's time for listener mail.

788
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 1: Hello Chucking, Hello Chuck Bryant and Josh Clark Hello, very formal. Uh.

789
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:16,719
Speaker 1: On stuttering, I've stuttered for most of my life. I

790
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 1: say most of my life because it started when I

791
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:21,800
Speaker 1: was five. As you mentioned your show, there are several

792
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,799
Speaker 1: several different ways it can happen. I would always try

793
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 1: to think of a different word to use when I

794
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:29,320
Speaker 1: got stuck, and that would result in very strange sounding sentences.

795
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:32,439
Speaker 1: I would define stuttering his inability to coordinate breath flow

796
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:34,919
Speaker 1: with words. Blocking on a word or sound would often

797
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 1: result in a cessation of breathing entirely. Kind people often

798
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 1: tell me that stuttering does not bother them, But the

799
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 1: fact is, when I stutter, my internal reaction is that

800
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: I feel and sound like a fool. I rationally, I

801
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 1: know that is not true, but that is what I

802
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 1: often feel. Nonetheless, and of course, unkind people abound, and

803
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 1: I often heard as a child, reactions like don't you

804
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 1: know what you want? From other kids and adults, laughter

805
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 1: and derision. Often I'd hair just sing it. And while

806
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,320
Speaker 1: it's true that singing and speaking are operated by different

807
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 1: parts of the brain, life is not a musical and besides,

808
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:09,240
Speaker 1: I hate musicals, So at the age of sixty seven,

809
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:12,320
Speaker 1: I would never have thought that I'd end up talking

810
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,280
Speaker 1: on the phone and dealing with the public for a living.

811
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 1: I still occasionally stutter and sometimes feel pretty badly, but

812
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 1: I've learned to just live with it. Sometimes feel as

813
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 1: I get older, I just don't give a darn anymore.

814
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 1: That allows me to relax and stutter less. That is

815
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 1: a perk of aging, not caring. Uh. Stress brings it

816
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 1: out and does as as talking about my difficult into

817
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:35,240
Speaker 1: our childhood. I'm a singer. I'm one of the resident

818
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:39,280
Speaker 1: shanty singers at the National Maritime Historical Park at Hyde

819
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 1: Street Pierre in San Francisco, and it performed in front

820
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 1: of large audiences. Singing is not a problem, but introducing

821
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 1: songs can be. You might say I'm the mel Tillis

822
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 1: traditional song and that lovely email well from Richard adrian Owitz.

823
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 1: Thank you Richard. I love that one, Yeah good one,

824
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 1: and everybody us in San Francisco down to go down

825
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:05,239
Speaker 1: to Fisherman's Wharf and see Richard check up the show

826
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 1: The mel Tillis of Shanty Singing. I love it. If

827
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 1: you want to get in touch with us, you can

828
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:12,800
Speaker 1: send us an email. Send it off to stuff podcast

829
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 1: at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is

830
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:21,360
Speaker 1: a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts my

831
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,840
Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or

832
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.