1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: The body is, I would argue, like a contested political territory, 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: and people experience that differently, whether it's because of their gender, 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 1: their race, their disability. And so getting a tattoo for 4 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: somebody who's experiencing discrimination because of their body throughout their 5 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: daily life is going to mean something really different to 6 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:23,240 Speaker 1: them than for somebody who's not experiencing that daily discrimination 7 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: or that daily oppression. And I think that there's a 8 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: really incredible power to interrupt those experiences, you know. I 9 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: think the touching can be a real intervention in that sense. 10 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 2: From Futuro Media, It's Latino, USA. I'm Maria in Posa today, 11 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 2: imagining the possibilities of body art with tattoo artist Tamera Santivnis. 12 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 2: On a street corner in New York City, there's a 13 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 2: glass door with an orange flower painted on it. It looks 14 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 2: like a sunflower. It's open, it's bright and inviting. 15 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: HI. 16 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 2: This is Flower World, a tattoo studio in Brooklyn's East 17 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:23,759 Speaker 2: Williamsburg neighborhood. 18 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: It has beautiful windows. It's on a corner, so we 19 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 1: get a lot of natural light, which is really special, 20 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: and we have tons of plants. 21 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 2: And this is Tamera Santi vagnis a Mexican American tattoo artist, writer, 22 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:40,119 Speaker 2: and oral historian. They're one of the artists who work 23 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 2: in this studio. 24 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: Well, I started working here in the summer of twenty 25 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: twenty because the shop that I was at closed because 26 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: of the pandemic. I was like, is it so delusional 27 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: to think that we can do this safely? 28 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 2: Tamra went four months without touching needle and ink to skin. 29 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 2: That was a first in their teen year long career, 30 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,919 Speaker 2: but giving up tattooing entirely was never in the cards. 31 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: It's like riding a bicycle. I started doing it again, 32 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 1: and it all comes back to. 33 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:15,359 Speaker 2: They've been tattooing since their early twenties. Their designs are 34 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 2: typically in black and gray, often featuring images that draw 35 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 2: from their cultural heritage and from the counter cultural punk 36 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 2: scenes that they embraced in the early two thousands. Tamera 37 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 2: is covered in tattoos they've collected over the years, delicate scriptwork, flowers, crosses, daggers, hearts, skulls. 38 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,839 Speaker 2: Some pieces were done by friends and colleagues, and many 39 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 2: others were done by themselves. 40 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: I had, you know, like many funks been doing a 41 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: lot of homemade tattooing and sort of self teaching in 42 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: some ways, and a lot of it is just practicing 43 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: on skin. A lot of that is practicing on yourself. 44 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 2: And like all permanent body art, tattoos grew and evolved 45 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 2: with life. The idea of the body as a living 46 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,239 Speaker 2: archive is central to Tamra's work. 47 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: Tattooing is so layered and tattooing is so complex, and 48 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: the work that I'm most excited about is really examining 49 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:23,679 Speaker 1: how different bodies are differently inscribed with meaning and how 50 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: we can meet that and shift that empower ourselves. 51 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 2: In their recent book Could This Be Magic Tattooing as 52 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 2: Liberation Work, Tamera explores how tattooing can be a tool 53 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 2: to document cultural histories and help clients heal from trauma. 54 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 2: Their current work focuses on the legacy of tattooing within 55 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 2: the prison system. To walk us through the art of 56 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 2: tattooing and all the potential it holds, Tamera is going 57 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 2: to take it from here. 58 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: I've always been interested in bodily adournment and in outward 59 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: expression of identity, and so when I first moved to 60 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: New York, it was because I wanted to go to 61 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: school for Fashion design. I was really interested in clothing 62 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 1: and communicating through clothing, and I thought that that's what 63 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: I wanted to do. But when I got here, it 64 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: became pretty clear that I wasn't interested in design, or 65 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: in manufacturing or in clothing trends that sort of cycle 66 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: of production. I was more interested in craft and things 67 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: that were handmade and in things that were more process based, 68 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 1: and so I ended up graduating from art school with 69 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: a degree in printmaking. Printmaking has a really rich history. 70 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: It's a really special craft that I still have a 71 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: lot of affinity for. It's so handmade and you really 72 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: can't replicate the quality of it. It's so material, and 73 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: I think that that really prepared me for tattooing, because 74 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: to me, there's lots of similarity is in the movements 75 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: of the hand and the physicality of how you carve 76 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 1: a piece of wood, for example, if you're going to 77 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 1: be making a print from it, and how you apply 78 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 1: a tattoo. You know, they're obviously varied in different mediums. 79 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:15,239 Speaker 1: A piece of wood is very different from the skin, 80 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: but there is a lot that feels relevant between the two. 81 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: And so when I was in school for printmaking, I 82 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: was sort of revisiting the idea of tattooing. I had 83 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 1: always been drawn to it, and I had always had 84 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: friends that were in the tattoo world, whether that was 85 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: working at a shop as an assistant, or apprenticing to 86 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: tattoo or getting tattooed. When I was young too, my 87 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,039 Speaker 1: friends were all older and they would sometimes ask me 88 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: to draw designs for them that they would go and 89 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 1: then get tattooed, and I would always be like, let 90 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: me come. I want to see the process. I was 91 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 1: always really intrigued by it and enamored by it and 92 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 1: really felt like, oh, I want to learn how to 93 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 1: do this. It just seems really magical. I can't quite 94 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: understand how it's being done, but I want to know. Yeah, 95 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 1: so this is my station. It's funny to say this. 96 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: I guess I'm almost a little old school and some 97 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: of my techniques now, I've been tattooing for I think 98 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,559 Speaker 1: over thirteen years at this point, which I can't believe 99 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: that it's been that long. But I still use mostly 100 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: coil machines to tattoo, which is kind of what you're 101 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: hearing now. A lot of people now are using rotary machines. 102 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: Which are a lot quieter. They all can do different things. 103 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 1: It really comes down to tattoo artists preference. Every time 104 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 1: I do a tattoo, I set up my station. I 105 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: have this metal trade that can be sterilized between clients 106 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: between uses. Basically, the way the process works is that 107 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: you shave the area that's going to be tattooed, and 108 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: you give it a good wife with rubbing alcohol, and 109 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: then you can apply your stencil. It will almost look 110 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: like a temporary tattoo, right like just the outlines. I 111 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: like to help people try the extensile on in different 112 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: places or on different positions in the body so that 113 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: they can check it out and see for themselves, having 114 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: them look in the mirror, kind of moving their body 115 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 1: around to see how the sensil changes, so usually what 116 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: people's sencil is running. Then I'll set up my machines. 117 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: Then I pour out my inks that I'm going to 118 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: be using and make sure that I get them in 119 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: a comfortable position, whether that's with an armrest or on 120 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: a massage table, and then we start tattooing. As I 121 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: got older, and especially as I started getting more into 122 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: music and punk and sort of alternative cultures, tattoos were 123 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: a big part of that, especially for people who wanted 124 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: to be countercultural. And I'm old enough that this was 125 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: before tattooing really entered the mainstream on tattoo television. Reality television, 126 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: I think made that culturally so much more known and understood. 127 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: Behind every tragic tattoo, there's always a ridiculous story. 128 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 2: I built myself from the projects to be seas of 129 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 2: black ink. 130 00:07:55,760 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: Of I think master artists prepare for it. But this 131 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: was before then, and so people who had tattoos really 132 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: were a lot more outsiders. I think at that time 133 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: it wasn't as accepted as a form of expression of 134 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: self expression. I was seeing a lot of people, especially 135 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: people playing in bands, musicians, in my mind they have 136 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: so many tattoos. I think they didn't really. I think 137 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: it was just that they had tattoos, and that memory 138 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: is so burned into my brain. My dad had a tattoo, 139 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: and I think he regretted it. I don't think he 140 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: liked it very much, and I think it was a 141 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:40,839 Speaker 1: relic from his younger days. But that was definitely the 142 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: first one that I remember seeing was this very blurry 143 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: music note tattoo that my dad had and I don't 144 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:52,839 Speaker 1: think that anyone of my mom's generation has tattoos. And 145 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: I remember my older cousin got a tattoo, and she 146 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: was the first one, and it was kind of a 147 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: big deal. We didn't really talk about it, but I 148 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:04,079 Speaker 1: remember it being a thing. I was seventeen when I 149 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 1: got my first. The first tattoo that I got was 150 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: a tattoo on the inside of my lip. I guess 151 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: this was early two thousands. I always feel like I'm 152 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: dating myself when I described that, because it was so 153 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: of that era. I think that really had a moment, 154 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: especially because they're so easy to hide. I thought I 155 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: was being so slick, and you know, I wasn't going 156 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: to get found out. I remember when I confessed to 157 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: my mom that I'd gotten my first tattoo. She didn't 158 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: react as strongly as I think that she might have, 159 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: and I think partially it was because you know, I 160 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: was already having punk haircuts and piercings and things like that. 161 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 1: I think that used her way into it. You know, 162 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: it wasn't as much of a surprise. I think at 163 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: that time. My mom's concern, like most people of that era, 164 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: was just like, how will you get a job with 165 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: a tattoo, and that's changed so much since then, and 166 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: I think it changed pretty drastically. Not long after that, 167 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: I knew from a young age that I wanted to 168 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: go into a creative career field, and so I wasn't 169 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: so concerned about how it would affect my job prospects. 170 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: But I think it helps a lot that I do 171 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: tattoos as my job, and so having tattoos is also 172 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: a part of the job. So I've been doing most 173 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: of my drawing on iPad. It doesn't have the same 174 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: satisfying feeling as drawing on tracing paper, and so I'm 175 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: hoping to make some time to just do that coming 176 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: up soon. But I always print out my designs and 177 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: have them in a physical book so people can flip 178 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:36,839 Speaker 1: through it, because I think that that's a really satisfying 179 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: experience to hold something in your hands. So this one 180 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,319 Speaker 1: has these sort of plastic fleeves so that I can 181 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: pull things out and holding up in the mirror, replace them. 182 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: On each page, there's maybe two or three designs, so 183 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: as I'm drawing new I'll print them out, put them 184 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: out and put them in this little booklet. So I'm 185 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,559 Speaker 1: trying to always slap them out. I do repeat designs 186 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: just because I think it's nice to always do them 187 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: a little bit differently. But yeah, some of these are 188 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: old and you don't really get a chance to do 189 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 1: them until someone picks it. And it's always a fun 190 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: process to see what someone's going to choose. Yeah, like 191 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: I would say this one, this rose with the barbed wire, 192 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: I've done a lot of times now, so I'm gonna 193 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: maybe change this one up. I tend to think that 194 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:38,199 Speaker 1: tattoos can change meaning over time, and that's something I 195 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: talk about with clients too, because sometimes people will have 196 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: a lot of specifics about the symbolism that they want 197 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: to include to communicate the meaning of their tattoo. And 198 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 1: I've had tattoos for long enough and done tattoos for 199 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 1: long enough that I know that the meaning can be 200 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:55,079 Speaker 1: sometimes more fluid than we might expect it to be. 201 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: But the tattoo is always going to look the same, right, 202 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: So it's about finding images that can stay the test 203 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: of time, or can at least be responsive to those 204 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 1: changing meanings. And a lot of tattoos that I have 205 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:07,839 Speaker 1: are the same way. I mean, I have enough now 206 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: that I forget about some of them, because they just 207 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 1: become so a part of your body that I don't 208 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: quite remember what's there or notice them all the time. 209 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: Sometimes I'll catch a glimpse of some of them and 210 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 1: be like, oh, yeah, I have this tattoo. I totally 211 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,199 Speaker 1: forgot about that one. I have this tattoo on my 212 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: leg that's from one of Iron Maiden's album covers, this 213 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,839 Speaker 1: heavy metal you know image, And when I look down 214 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: at it, I'm like, Wow, I haven't listened to Iron 215 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,959 Speaker 1: Maiden in years, but I'm like, wow, I loved heavy 216 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: metal when I got this tattoo, and I remember so 217 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: distinctly getting it from my co worker, and it's so 218 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: well done. It still looks so cool, but it's not 219 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 1: as relevant to me as it was when I got it, 220 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: but I still love that it's there. One thing I 221 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: know for sure is that tattooing has so much power 222 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 1: to shape people's concept of themselves. It can be a 223 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 1: tool for communicating about yourself to the world, to the 224 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,079 Speaker 1: rest of the world, how you want to be seen. 225 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: It can be a way to align your vision of 226 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: yourself with how you see yourself and externalize that. For example, 227 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,199 Speaker 1: for transgender people, you might not be able to access 228 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: gender affirming surgeries because of insurance reasons or because of 229 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: access reasons, And in instances like that, sometimes tattooing is 230 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: a thing that's accessible to you to make your body 231 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 1: feel more like your own or to affirm your gender identity. 232 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: I could give a hundred examples of what tattooing can 233 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: do for people, especially people who have been trauma impacted. 234 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: I've done a lot of tattoos that are cover ups 235 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: of self harm scars, for example, because people have dealt 236 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 1: with a lot of judgment for having those marks on 237 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 1: their body. I've tattooed people who are recovering from eating disorders, 238 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: and tattooing is an important that recovery journey people who 239 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: have survived sexual assault, and it's a really important part 240 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: of reclaanning agency and ownership of their bodies. So oftentimes 241 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: tattooing can be a way to overwrite something that wasn't 242 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: of your choosing, that's happened to you, and to say, well, 243 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't my choice to develop breast cancer, 244 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: but it is my choice to get this beautiful tattoo 245 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: over my mistectomy scar because this is my body and 246 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: I do have ownership over it right now, we have 247 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: three stations, so we all kind of work between these, 248 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: and in my space I have a lot of different 249 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: things that are Mexican crafts. It's a really important kind 250 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: of recurring theme in my own artwork, and so I 251 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: like having little pieces of like da la Vera the 252 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: core or pottery around. We have some of it in 253 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: the front to I love this little butterfly one, it's 254 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: so cute, as well as as you know, milagros and 255 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: punch tin. We have this tin mirror over here that 256 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: I collected. I also have always in every space that 257 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: I've worked, put up a lot of my own drawings 258 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: and stencils. I really love doing lettering, especially script. I 259 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: do a lot of kind of larger scale lightering pieces, 260 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: like stomach rockers or like across the shoulders or chess pieces, 261 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: which I love. Some of these are really small on 262 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: the wall, but they were actually done really large scale, 263 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: like this one. This kind of stone of arc piece 264 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: is actually a huge back piece. And you can also 265 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: see that there's a lot of different kinds of images 266 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: that reference LATINX culture or like specifically Mexican culture. And 267 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: I taught you a lot of LATINX people and a 268 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: lot of other Mexican people, which is really fun for 269 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: me to I grew up in Athens, Georgia. I was 270 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: actually born in Oregon, which is where my dad's family 271 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: is from, and my parents relocated to Georgia. My mom 272 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: is an immigrant from Mexico. My mom imigrated to the 273 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: US when she met my dad, who is a white American, 274 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: and so we grew up, especially at a young age 275 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: when my parents were still together, being very bicultural and 276 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: on my parents split up, my mom was my primary 277 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: parent who I was in the house with. I have 278 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: a couple brothers and sisters, so we had a really supportive, 279 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: very Mexican household. There wasn't as large of a Mexican 280 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: or a LATINX immigrant community in Georgia at the time, 281 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: and I feel really appreciative, especially now as an adult, 282 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: that I grew up in a household where my mother 283 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: was making sure that we had a lot of connection 284 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: to culture, so a lot of cooking together, you know, 285 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: a lot of tortillas for breakfast, and again making sure 286 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: that even though we couldn't travel very much, that we 287 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: would always go to blad Lacada to see my family 288 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: there because tattooing is so collaborative, right, because it's so 289 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: based on what the client is going to want to 290 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: wear and who they are and what they want to 291 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: say about themselves. A lot of people have come to 292 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: me because they know that those cultural origins resonate with 293 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,120 Speaker 1: me and that I share those and that I understand, 294 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: and it feels less. I don't want to say transactional, 295 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: because I don't think tattooing is transactional necessarily, but just 296 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: there's a little bit of a deeper alignment there that's 297 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 1: so rewarding to work with. There is such a rich history. 298 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: I think the most simple terminology, fine line, black and 299 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: gray is what people think of when they think of 300 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: chicato style tattooing. Single needle tattooing is another way people 301 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,400 Speaker 1: think about it or describe it. There's just so many 302 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: figures who are so seminal to shaping that voice in 303 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: tattoo culture, like Freddy mcgritty or like Tuklo Moreno, people 304 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 1: who I really look up to and who I've looked 305 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: at since I started tattooing and was really trying to 306 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: connect my own work to that tradition. There's a lot 307 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 1: of images that are recurring in that tradition as well. 308 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,440 Speaker 1: There's a lot of portraiture, a lot of script is 309 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: a really common one. I would say it's very family oriented, 310 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: a lot about identity and name and lineage and place 311 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: and language. I've done tattoos for Fejanos who want to 312 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: commemorate that, or tattoos that are La themed, for example. 313 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: There's a lot of images like the Smile Now Kry 314 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: Later that are really standised and just so of that 315 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:28,360 Speaker 1: visual vocabulary and really draws on the history of Chicano art. 316 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,719 Speaker 1: A lot of it isn't informed by the Chicano movement 317 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: and the sort of like civil rights alignment with black 318 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: power movements and other rights movements of the sixties seventies, 319 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: and so I consider it to be political as well. 320 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 1: But I think that one of the most important origins 321 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 1: to name and to make sure as part of the 322 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: conversation is also it's connections to the prison system in California. 323 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: That's where fine line, black and gray tattooing is credited 324 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 1: as having originated from, because in prisons they were making 325 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 1: tattoo machines and tattoo needles out of what is available 326 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 1: to them, which oftentimes was guitar strings, so there was 327 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,439 Speaker 1: quite literally a single needle, whereas with other types of 328 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: tattooing you're sometimes working with a larger grouping, so you 329 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: might have eight needles together in one to make a 330 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: boulder line. The fine line single needle tattooing was all 331 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: being done with a single needle, which was creating that 332 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: kind of stippling a fact, and not really thin, really 333 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:29,199 Speaker 1: fine aesthetic that became known and is now kind of 334 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,119 Speaker 1: replicated all over the world. But I think that a 335 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 1: really important aspect of it to name and to really 336 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: try to honor is that connection to the prison system 337 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: and the fact that there was such disproportionate incarceration of 338 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: black and brown people that is continuing to this day. 339 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: So we also have displayed this client Bill of Rights poster. 340 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: And this actually came about because a number of years ago, 341 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: in collaboration with the Women's Prison Association here in New York, 342 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 1: we were working with clients who needed cover ups for 343 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 1: some pretty heavy reasons. A number of them had experienced 344 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: intimate partner violence or trafficking. Some people had tattoos that 345 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: were reminders of those experiences or that had been done coercively. 346 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: So working with the Women's Prison Association. I came up 347 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,679 Speaker 1: with sort of a set of steps for clear communication, 348 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: for affirming people, for trying to make people feel safer 349 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 1: in that moment, and just in the tattoo process in general, 350 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 1: which is really a lot about communication. So some of 351 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: the things on the client bill of rights are the 352 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: right to a clean and comfortable environment that follows best 353 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: practices for health and safety. The right to equal treatment 354 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: and service regardless of things like race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, 355 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: physical ability. The right to respectful communication. You know, you 356 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: shouldn't be misgendered or you shouldn't be hearing any hate 357 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: speech or harassment in your tattoo environment. And again, these 358 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:11,719 Speaker 1: seem so basic, right, but it's not what some people's 359 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: experiences are, which is really unfortunate. I think this is 360 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:21,199 Speaker 1: sort of part and parcel of the rhetoric of tattooing, right, 361 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,880 Speaker 1: is that it's an important form of self expression, right, 362 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,400 Speaker 1: that it's creative, and that it's artistic. But those things 363 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 1: don't happen independently of the systems that we live under. 364 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: The body can really be to me a site of 365 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 1: archiving experience, of accessing sort of personal and collective histories, 366 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: and so I think the bulk of my work is 367 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 1: to try to connect tattooing and tattooings expression with systems 368 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: thinking that takes on the broader context of how we 369 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 1: exist in the world because bodies are so politicized. The 370 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 1: body is, i would argue, like a contested political territory, 371 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: and people experience that differently, whether it's because of gender, 372 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 1: their race, their disability, and so getting a tattoo for 373 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: somebody who's experiencing discrimination because of their body throughout their 374 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 1: daily life is going to mean something really different to 375 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: them than for somebody who's not experiencing that daily discrimination 376 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: or that daily oppression. And I think that there's a 377 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 1: really incredible power to interrupt those experiences, you know. I 378 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: think the touching can be a real intervention in that sense. 379 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: I think that the tattoo exchange ideally can be a 380 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 1: space to live as if your body's already free, right, 381 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 1: as if you can make all the choices in the 382 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: world about yourself and about your body, which is not 383 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: something that we can say about most of our lives. 384 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:47,959 Speaker 1: There's so many forces or so many systems that are 385 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: telling us what we can and can't do with our bodies. 386 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: Or how we can and can't move through the world, 387 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: and to be able to have a space a time 388 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: when you can say this is what I'm choosing with intention. 389 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 1: I don't think can be under it estimated, and that's 390 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: how I like to think of it. 391 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Alejandra Salasad and edited by 392 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:28,199 Speaker 2: Daisy Contreras. It was mixed by j J. Carubin. The 393 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:32,880 Speaker 2: Latino USA team includes Andrea Lopez Ruzado, Marta Martinez, Mike Sargent, 394 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:38,160 Speaker 2: Julia Ta Martinelli, Victoria Strada, Rinaldo Leanos Junior, Patricia Sulvaran 395 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 2: and Julia Rocha, with help from Raul Vedes. Our editorial 396 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 2: director is Julio Ricardo Arella. Our director of engineering is 397 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 2: Stephanie Lba. Our senior engineer is Julia Caruso. Our associate 398 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,919 Speaker 2: engineer is gabriel A Bias. Our marketing manager is Luis Luna. 399 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 2: Our fellows are Elisa Reina, Monica Morales Garcia and Andrew Vignalis. 400 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,679 Speaker 2: Our theme music was composed by Sane Robinos, I'm your 401 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 2: host and executive producer marieo Hosa. Join us again on 402 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,360 Speaker 2: our next episode, and in the meantime, look for us 403 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 2: on all of your social media and remember. 404 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 1: E Chow. 405 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 3: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Heising 406 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:26,880 Speaker 3: Simons Foundation, unlocking knowledge, opportunity, and possibilities more at hsfoundation 407 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 3: dot org, the Ford Foundation, working with visionaries on the 408 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,959 Speaker 3: front lines of social change worldwide, and the John D. 409 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 3: And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation. 410 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: Totally fine. It's it's so funny when you have that 411 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: on how much sound you here, It's really disorienting. You're like, 412 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: there's interviews that I've done where you can hear my 413 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,919 Speaker 1: dog making like mouth noises or breathing heavily.