1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, 3 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. I am an executive producer with I Heart 4 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:23,319 Speaker 1: Radio and how the Tech Area. We are back with 5 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: our series of episodes that are covering the history of 6 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: social networks, So this one would be the third episode 7 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 1: on this particular subject. In the last episode in this series, 8 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: we focused exclusively on my Space and Facebook, two networks 9 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: that launched a year apart from one another, and how 10 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: my Space dominated the landscape for a few years, but 11 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: due to lots of reasons, gave up the lead to 12 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: Facebook and ultimately faded from view for a couple of years. 13 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: It did eventually return as a music discovery platform and 14 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: less of a social network, and that it's kind of 15 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: what it is today. And of course we all know 16 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: how Facebook the company turned into meta and the various 17 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: issues that this company currently faces. So let's get back 18 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: to our timeline and see what's next, because now we're 19 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: in the era of social networks where things got really 20 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,759 Speaker 1: crowded for a while. In fact, it got so crowded 21 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 1: that an analyst named Clay Shirkey created a new acronym 22 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: to describe what was going on at the time. That 23 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:38,559 Speaker 1: acronym was y A S N S yasn's it actually 24 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: stands for yet another social networking service. So you know, 25 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: when folks start bandying about acronyms like that, that you're 26 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: flirting with over saturation. That everyone saw social networks as 27 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: being kind of the next phase of the web, and 28 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: so everyone was trying to get in on it. But 29 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: we're still in two thousand and four. Because even though 30 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: I and I've said this in the previous episodes, even 31 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: though I go through kind of the the an overview 32 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: of the history of each company as we get to it, 33 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: I keep going back to the timeline. It just wouldn't 34 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 1: make sense to strictly stick year by year because so 35 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 1: much is happening at so many different places. Now, my 36 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: Space would rise to dominate the social networking space, and 37 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: Facebook was not that far behind, but there was still 38 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 1: some room in the environment, and some services like linked In, 39 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: which had launched earlier in two thousand three, were really 40 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: able to carve out a space by focusing on a 41 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: niche in social networking, with LinkedIn's example being a social 42 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: network for professional networking that allowed linked In to flourish 43 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: in that specific arena and continue to this day. There 44 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: would be several other niche social networks that would achieve 45 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: varying degrees of popularity among slices of users, such as 46 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: pet owners with sites like Dogster. I'm not going to 47 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: dive into those really, because they get to be so 48 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: specific and so relatively small that there's not much point 49 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: in diving into them. I should also mention that even 50 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: early on, there were issues with people trying to game 51 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,359 Speaker 1: the systems, which isn't really that big of a surprise, 52 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: I suppose, because if you have a system, someone's going 53 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: to figure out how to exploit it. So, for example, 54 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: on Friendster, which we covered in a previous episode, the 55 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 1: administrators decided to limit how far out from your connections 56 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: you could explore on the site. So the idea was, 57 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: if there was a profile that was more than four 58 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: degrees of separation from your profile, you wouldn't be able 59 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: to view it. You wouldn't be able to go and 60 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: look at that profile because you wouldn't be close enough 61 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: connections to merit it. So some people just wanted to 62 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: amass as many friends as possible to expand their network 63 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: out and essentially make it impossible for anyone to have 64 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: a profile they couldn't look at. It was kind of 65 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: like a game. The number of friends you accumulated would 66 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: be analogous to the points you could amass in a 67 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: video game. To that end, people were doing stuff like 68 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: sending friend requests to distant degrees of separation, you know, 69 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: folks they didn't know or had never been aware of before, 70 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 1: just to see more potential friends being opened up. Some 71 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:26,799 Speaker 1: folks would make fake profiles, either of like a fictional 72 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: character or maybe a celebrity, solely for the purposes of 73 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 1: gathering more friends. The abuse of the platform caused some 74 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: real cultural problems for the site, and we would see 75 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: similar behaviors emerge on other platforms, not exactly the same thing, necessarily, 76 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: but more examples of people saying, oh, it works this way, 77 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: but what if I use it this other way, which 78 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 1: is a real hacker mentality, And I don't mean that 79 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: in a bad way. Now. Whether it was because users 80 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: wanted to feel popular or they were simply finding value 81 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: in the network beyond its intended purpose, the activities on 82 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 1: Friendster often led to the platform itself losing value, and 83 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 1: that the folks who were not game gaming the system 84 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: who were just there to use it as it was intended. 85 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 1: We're finding it harder to navigate the networks and to 86 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 1: be sure that the people they were befriending were actually 87 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: who they thought they were. All right, let's get back 88 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:30,479 Speaker 1: to two thousand four. Uh, Katerina Fake and Stuart Butterfield, 89 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: who at the time were married. They later would separate. 90 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: We're working on an m m O RPG. That's massive 91 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: multiplayer online role playing game. The game's name was Game 92 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 1: Never Ending, should have been Game Never Starting because the 93 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: game would never actually launch. But but within that game, 94 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: there was a feature in which users wouldn't be able 95 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 1: to upload photos that ended up being spun off into 96 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: a fully fledged service of its own, and service became 97 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: known as Flicker f l I c k R. By 98 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,559 Speaker 1: the way, there was this also this era of web 99 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: based companies where it became trendy to not include certain 100 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: vowels in your name. Twitter, which we will talk about 101 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 1: in the next episode of this series, was at one 102 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: point just called t W T t R with no 103 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: eye and no E in it. But anyway, Flicker was 104 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: not the first online photo sharing service. There were others 105 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: like photo Bucket, and there was an early version of 106 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: Picasa that kind of had elements of that. There was 107 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,359 Speaker 1: also smug Mug, which was really more for photographers, but 108 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: it did introduce something really useful. So it wasn't first 109 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: it allowing you to upload your photos to an album, 110 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: but it did allow you to do meta tagging, and 111 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: so you could tag photos with any kind of metadata 112 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: you liked, not just photos you uploaded, but also photos 113 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: that you viewed, and that made these photos searchable by keyword. 114 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: So let's say you're an avid diver and a photographer 115 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: and you upload photos of some of your dives and 116 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: use relevant keywords, and you use the same keywords to 117 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: search for other photos from other divers like you. Maybe 118 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: you find a community of of diver photographers that you 119 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: didn't know about and you would connect with them. So 120 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: Flicker effectively outsourced the taxonomy of the photographs that were 121 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: on its site to the community, and the community eagerly 122 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: took up the task. And this just made Flicker a 123 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: more valuable tool because you could find photos on just 124 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: about anything. If you just started searching for certain keywords, 125 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: Flicker would become really famous pretty quickly. Fake and Butterfield 126 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: founded it in February two four and just a year 127 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: later in early two thousand five, Internet giant at the time, 128 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: Yahoo would come a column. Now, Flicker was still in 129 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: the early stages of receiving influxes of cash from angel investors, 130 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: and it was very early days to consider selling to 131 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: a bigger company, and this was not an easy decision. 132 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: Should you play the long game and try to build 133 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: value in your company, which would in turn push up 134 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:23,559 Speaker 1: the price tag. Alternatively, you could try and just stay 135 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: a solvent, standalone company on your own and not sell 136 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: to anybody. Or should you cash out when the opportunity arises. 137 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: This is a very tough thing to consider because keep 138 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: in mind, this is two thousand five, it was not 139 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: that far removed from the dot com crash, and that 140 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: crash illustrated that nothing is ever a sure thing. So 141 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 1: sometimes when that opportunity comes around, you may not get 142 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: another one. So there's a lot of pressure. Not the 143 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,959 Speaker 1: same time, flickers star was on the rise. I mean, 144 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: even other services like Blogger were meaning on Flicker to 145 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: power image uploads, so Flicker was becoming more influential in 146 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: the web in general. Ultimately, the founders made the decision 147 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: to accept Yahoo's deal, which was reportedly in the neighborhood 148 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: of thirty five million bucks, though some sources say that 149 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: it's actually maybe as low as twenty two million. It 150 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: just depends upon which one you're looking at. As we 151 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: will see over and over again in this episode, these 152 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: acquisition deals, they're typically not public. Because you're talking about 153 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,319 Speaker 1: a private company being purchased, you don't often know how 154 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: much was actually paid for it, so we hear everything 155 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,199 Speaker 1: from twenty to thirty five million dollars. Now, later on, 156 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: as social network sites were being bought and sold in 157 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: the hundreds of millions of dollars range, it would appear 158 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: in retrospect like this could have been the wrong call, right, 159 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: that Flicker should have held on to itself and just 160 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: waited a little bit longer, and it probably could have 161 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: sold for way more money, But at the time that 162 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: was impossible to say. You just couldn't be sure of it. 163 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: As for Flicker, under Yahoo, it would grow substantially. It 164 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: went from a quarter million users to more than two 165 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: million in less than a year, and it also increased 166 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: in features, included one that I thought was super cool 167 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: where you could look at a map and click on 168 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: locations of the map, and it would pull up photographs 169 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: of that location, so you could actually click around on 170 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: a map and see photos of those sites. And I 171 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: thought that was really cool. It was a great way 172 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:40,559 Speaker 1: to contextualize photographs. Butterfield and Fake stuck around with Flicker 173 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: until around two thousand eight, and they left the company 174 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 1: at that point. At that point they had also split 175 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: as a married couple as well. They would each go 176 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: on to found other companies. Butterfield would actually co found 177 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: one that's a really big deal today, that being Slack. 178 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 1: So yeah, one of the founders of Flicker would then 179 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: go on to co found Slack. Flicker gave users a 180 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: lot of storage space to play with in ten yahoo. 181 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: I mean, this was crazy. They gave users an entire 182 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: terrabyte of free storage for their photos. That was unfathomable 183 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: at that time. It's still pretty crazy today, but I mean, really, 184 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: at that time, that was nuts. Flicker Pro users who 185 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:26,319 Speaker 1: were paying a subscription fee for their their pro account 186 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: would actually get to what amounted to be unlimited storage. 187 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: But by this point, Flicker was already facing competition from 188 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: services like Instagram and Facebook, and users didn't have the 189 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: same storage at those services. They couldn't put in nearly 190 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: as many photos there, nor did they enjoy the same 191 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: extensive meta tagging features that you had on Flicker. But 192 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: the tighter social integration on those platforms one out. So 193 00:11:55,920 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: while Flicker undoubtedly had incredible teachers and great benefits in 194 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,959 Speaker 1: the form of storage, it's just you know, people were 195 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: being more active on these other social networks, and so 196 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: flickers importance began to fade a bit. Moreover, there were 197 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: real serious problems going on at the parent company of Yahoo. 198 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: It was kind of teetering on the edge of a 199 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: free fall death spiral for a while. I've done episodes 200 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: about Yahoo and what went on over there. I may 201 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: have to revisit that topic at some point and give 202 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: kind of a new take, or at least an update 203 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: on that, because so much has happened at Yahoo. But 204 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: Verizon acquired Yahoo in and then put Yahoo under a 205 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: subsidiary company called Oath, and then the following year smug Mug, 206 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: you know, an old photo competitor that had launched in 207 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: two thousand two but had kind of eschewed the social 208 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: network approach. It was really just purely about, you know, 209 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 1: being a place to store for potos. It acquired Flicker 210 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: from Oath, so Flicker ultimately was acquired by an old competitor. 211 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: In two thousand eighteen, Flicker announced that the it was 212 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: bringing an end to that terrabyte of storage. Users would 213 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: then have a cap of just one thousand photos and 214 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,719 Speaker 1: that anything beyond that would start to see photos deleted 215 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 1: from the service, and that led to a bit of 216 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: a scramble at least among some parts of the Internet 217 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 1: to preserve information. But in many ways, this is kind 218 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: of like having a physical photo album and then misplacing it, 219 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: you know, losing it, and if it's out of your mind, 220 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:37,680 Speaker 1: you probably don't even miss it. It's just when you 221 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: think about it that you're like, oh, yeah, whatever happened 222 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,679 Speaker 1: to that now. Flickers fate also reminds us that online 223 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,679 Speaker 1: storage is not necessarily for forever. It might seem like 224 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: that because these are really big companies, they have a 225 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: lot of redundancy built into them. You know. It's one 226 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 1: of those things where like, if you store your pictures 227 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: locally and something happens to your home, you might lose 228 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: all the pictures. But if you store them in the cloud, 229 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: then something happens to a server in the cloud. Those 230 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: photos are more likely than not stored on multiple other 231 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: servers so you don't lose them. So we don't often 232 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,559 Speaker 1: think of things stored in the cloud as being temporary, 233 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:17,319 Speaker 1: but they can be, you know, if the company goes 234 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: out of business, or it's acquired by another company or whatever. 235 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: It can happen. Ultimately, there's no completely safe way to 236 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: store your digital information, whether it's local or on the cloud, 237 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: though hopefully most cloud systems will at least give signs 238 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: that you should migrate stuff elsewhere before they go belly up. Okay, 239 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: that's Flicker. When we come back, we're gonna talk more 240 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: about a social network that we mentioned in the first 241 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: episode in this series but didn't really go into. But 242 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: first this quick break. Okay, we talked about Flicker. Now 243 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: let's move on to Tagged and A and we tugged 244 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: a little bit about Tagged in the first episode because 245 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: Tagged ultimately acquired High five in two thousand eleven, and 246 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: we mentioned High five early on in this series. But 247 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: Tagged had its beginnings in two thousand four when co 248 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: founders Gregg Singh and Johann Schleier Smith launched a site 249 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: intended for the under eighteen crowd. Like the team at Facebook, 250 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: this project started at Harvard University, but while Facebook was 251 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: aimed at college students, Tagged was very much looking at 252 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: kids in middle and high school ages. Now. To that end, 253 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: the creators set about making an environment that would emphasize 254 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: security and privacy, which was absolutely critical considering the ages 255 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: of the users. So users who were thirteen or fourteen 256 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: years old, their profiles were restricted so that the public 257 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: would not be able to view them, nor would anyone 258 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: on the platform who was over the age of sixteen. 259 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: They wouldn't be able to see the thirteen or fourteen 260 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: year old profiles either. Likewise, users who or fifteen or 261 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: sixteen their profiles were not viewable by the public. So 262 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: these restrictions remained in place when in two thousand and six, 263 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: Tagged opened up to users over the age of eighteen. 264 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: So initially Tagged looks at people eighteen and younger. Then 265 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: they say, all right, we're opening it up for people 266 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: who are older than eighteen. You might wonder why, Well, 267 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: one reason why you would do that is because your age, 268 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: you're the age of your users is going to continue 269 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: to creep up. Right, Like if you attract someone to 270 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: your site when they're fifteen. Four years later, that person's nineteen, 271 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: and if your site no longer allows them to be 272 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: on there and kicks them off, well that is a problem. Right, So, 273 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: anytime you see a site that's aimed at younger users, 274 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: there's a chance for it to evolve to also cater 275 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: to older ones. Tagged made a pivot fairly early on. 276 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: As my Space and Facebook we're dominating social networking, Tagged 277 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: found out from its users that the people who are 278 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: using Tagged, we're doing it for social discovery. By that, 279 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:07,360 Speaker 1: I mean finding and forming new friendships as opposed to 280 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: finding your existing friends from real life and connecting to 281 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: them on there. So that's what Facebook and my Space 282 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: were being used for. Tagged was used to find new folks, 283 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: and so Tagged evolved into becoming more of a discovery 284 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,719 Speaker 1: platform than your traditional social network, and it served as 285 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: kind of a compliment to the growing networks rather than 286 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 1: as a competitor, which made it a little bit more 287 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: secure than some of its fellow social networks that were 288 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: coming out around this time. Now, that's not to say 289 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,239 Speaker 1: that Tagged didn't have its own share of downsides, at 290 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 1: least from the perspective of a non user who wasn't 291 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 1: interested in the service, because when you signed up for Tagged, 292 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: when you made an account for Tagged, the site would 293 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 1: encourage you to share your email address book with the site. 294 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 1: Then the site would go on to blast out emails 295 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: to all your contacts in an effort to get them 296 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: to come and join Tagged two. Now, at some points 297 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: during the company's history, some of those emails would suggest 298 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 1: that users had been tagged in posts, or rather that 299 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: you had been tagged in a post by a user, 300 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 1: or maybe that this this person had personally invited you 301 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: to join Tagged, and that wasn't necessarily true. It was 302 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: just part of these blast email approaches to try and 303 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 1: get more users onto the service. All of that kind 304 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 1: of somewhat shady behavior led to a lawsuit in two 305 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,679 Speaker 1: thousand nine, and ultimately the company would settle out of 306 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: court and agree to not be quite so aggressive in 307 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 1: its marketing approach. Now, as I said earlier, Tagged acquired 308 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: High Fives i p in two thousand eleven. It was 309 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 1: scheduled to hold its own i p O initial public 310 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 1: offering and thus become a publicly traded company in two 311 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: thousand fourteen, but Tagged scrubbed those plans because user be 312 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: saviors were shifting away from desktops, so people were not 313 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: accessing Tagged using their computers the way they had been, 314 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: which was affecting Tag's revenue model. This was all part 315 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: of a general move as people were starting to rely 316 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 1: more on mobile devices, particularly smartphones, to access the web. 317 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: And as I've said in numerous episodes on on lots 318 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 1: of different topics, it cannot be overstressed how big an 319 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:35,880 Speaker 1: impact the smartphone revolution had on web content. You had 320 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 1: entire companies that were dedicated two figuring out how best 321 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: to package material for mobile because everyone was using mobile 322 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 1: devices to access the web, and if your content was 323 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: not mobile friendly, then you were losing out on tons 324 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 1: of traffic. Well that's kind of what Tagged was going 325 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: through at this point, and I also mentioned this in 326 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: the High five entry in the series. But the Meat Group, 327 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 1: that's M E E. T. Meat Group acquired Tagged and 328 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: subsequently High five in two thousand and seventeen. Tagged still 329 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 1: exists today. You can make a profile and you can 330 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 1: use it to meet new friends. I haven't, but that's 331 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:25,919 Speaker 1: because I am old and I am grouchy. There have 332 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 1: been a few massively effective Internet startup killers in the 333 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: short history of the web. There was the dot com 334 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:38,679 Speaker 1: bubble bursts that killed lots of startups. It laid waste 335 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: to tons of them, though to be fair, some of 336 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: those companies were probably on thin ice to begin with. 337 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: It was just that the dot com crash was definitely 338 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 1: too much for them to make it through. But yeah, 339 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: there there were plenty of early web startups where if 340 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: you took a good look at their business plan or 341 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 1: in some cases lack thereof, you'd say, yeah, of course, 342 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 1: as didn't last the test of time. But there have 343 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 1: been also various economic downturns, like one in two thousand 344 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: eight that a lot of companies were unable to push through. 345 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: But there's one killer who has been consistently effective in 346 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:16,400 Speaker 1: this startup world and then terrifying, and that would be Google. 347 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: Google is the company that never launched or acquired an 348 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 1: application that it could not subsequently kill off later on. 349 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:30,120 Speaker 1: The company's infamous for launching or acquiring and then shutting 350 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: down various services and features, or sometimes incorporating parts of 351 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 1: them into other products. So there are some Frankenstein monster 352 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: style Google products out there that are the sum of 353 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: a bunch of parts that came from other startups and 354 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: services over the years. And there will be other examples 355 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: of social networks that were later killed by Google as 356 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: we go on, But right now we're going to talk 357 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: about or Cut, which was not acquired by Google, it 358 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 1: was incubated there. The social network was named after a 359 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: software engineer, so Or cult Is his name is a 360 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: Turkish software engineer, and this particular project grew out of 361 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: Google's then policy of allowing employees twenty percent time to 362 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: work on their own projects. So what this meant was 363 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 1: you could spend one five of every week working on 364 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,159 Speaker 1: projects that are outside of your official duties. So you 365 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,439 Speaker 1: still had to do your job right, you had, you 366 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 1: had things you had to do as whatever your role was, 367 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 1: but twenty percent of your time could also be spent 368 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: on other projects. And the idea was that engineers would 369 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: create interesting tools and services and features or technologies that 370 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 1: Google could later incorporate or adopt in the future. And 371 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: or Cult the social network started out as just that 372 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 1: kind of a project. Now, Google had previously attempted to 373 00:22:55,080 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: acquire Friendster, but that effort fizzled out. Friendster lined the 374 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: offer and or cut would be kind of, uh, a 375 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:10,160 Speaker 1: next step in Google's attempts to kind of tap into 376 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,640 Speaker 1: social networks. It launched fairly quietly. It was initially an 377 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: invitation only service. That's actually a tactic Google has used 378 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 1: a few times with its products. That used it with Gmail. 379 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,120 Speaker 1: They used it with Google Plus, which we'll talk about 380 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: in a future episode. And let me tell you, nothing 381 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 1: works quite so well for driving up interest in a 382 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: product as making it somewhat exclusive, because everyone wants to 383 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: be important enough to get into the club, particularly when 384 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 1: you know that other people are not going to be 385 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: allowed in. But just a few months after the social 386 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: network launched, it became clear that users in a couple 387 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:51,400 Speaker 1: of regions were responding to it way more enthusiastically than 388 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: in others. For example, users in Brazil were particularly attracted 389 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,119 Speaker 1: to ork it. They outnumbered North American users two to 390 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 1: one just six months after orc It launched. Over time, 391 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,239 Speaker 1: India would become another huge market for orch it, And 392 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: in both of these places you were seeing a similar 393 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 1: trend in that more and more people were just starting 394 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: to get access to the Internet, and orch it was 395 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 1: looking like an on ramp for social networks. For these 396 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: folks where they might otherwise be intimidated or not feel 397 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: like other social networks were quite as friendly to them 398 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 1: because they were already dominated by English speaking people in 399 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: North America and other places in the world. So it 400 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: didn't see that much traction outside of Brazil and India. 401 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: But it was popular enough in those two countries to 402 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: convince folks that Orchit was the big company and Google 403 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: was the subsidiary. You heard stories about that, like people 404 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: in Brazil or India thought or kit owned Google, not 405 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: the other way around, because that's how important the social 406 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: net work was in those countries. Interesting side note, one 407 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: person who served as the product manager for orch It 408 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: was Marissa Meyer. Now this is the same person who 409 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,719 Speaker 1: would later be hired by Yahoo. She she left Google 410 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: to join Yahoo to serve as the CEO of Yahoo. 411 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: Her tenure at Yahoo would become one of controversy and 412 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: derision in some circles, but that's a story for another time. Anyway, 413 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: for a while, orch it survived because again it was 414 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 1: so popular in Brazil and India. But as Facebook expanded 415 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:41,959 Speaker 1: into other countries, Google saw Orchid's popularity go into decline further. 416 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: In two thousand and eleven, Google would launch another social network, 417 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: which again we're going to talk about in a later episode, 418 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:53,880 Speaker 1: called Google Plus. And since Google Plus was clearly going 419 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,479 Speaker 1: to be the future of social networks, and because orch 420 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: It was already losing users to Facebook, Google made the 421 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 1: decision in two thousand and fourteen to shut ork it 422 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 1: down for good and just a spoiler alert for the 423 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: future episode. Things would not go smoothly for Google Plus, 424 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: as it turned out. All Right, we're now up to 425 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,119 Speaker 1: two thousand five, and one of the most crazy up 426 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 1: and down stories of social networks is right around the corner. 427 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:25,360 Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about Bibo. So this company was founded 428 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: by wife and husband team show Chee and Michael Birch 429 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,439 Speaker 1: in two thousand five. The name Bibo came from the 430 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 1: site's motto, which was blog early, blog often. The profile 431 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: designed for Bibo gave users freedom to customize their profiles 432 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: a bit. It was a modular approach, which was kind 433 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 1: of cool. Made me think a little bit about my Space, 434 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: which also was kind of modular back in the day. 435 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: And you can have a private profile where only your 436 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,439 Speaker 1: friends could view it, or you could allow the general 437 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: public access to you your content and that would include 438 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: stuff like blogs and friend comments. Later on it would 439 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: support stuff like photos and videos, and Bibo became a 440 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: kind of centralized location for pretty much all things you 441 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 1: It combined elements you would find on other platforms like MySpace, Facebook, 442 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 1: and later on stuff like YouTube. It also allowed users 443 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 1: to link other social platforms to Bibo, creating a kind 444 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,360 Speaker 1: of consolidated site of social network activity. That's something we've 445 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 1: also seen in other social network services as well. For 446 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: three years, Bibo operated independently. It grew in importance, particularly 447 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: in the UK and in Ireland, where it became quite popular, 448 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 1: and this led up to one of the biggest acquisitions 449 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 1: in social networking history up to that point, when in 450 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: two thousand eight, A o L bought Bibo from the 451 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 1: Birches for an astounding eight hundred fifty million bucks. Now 452 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: keep in mind News Corps had purchased my Space, which 453 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: was the number one social network at that time, for 454 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: five eighty million dollars. So yeah, Bibo getting bought for 455 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 1: eight hundred fifty million that was a huge deal, and 456 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: it was also a deal that other folks at A 457 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,399 Speaker 1: O L thought was, to put it mildly, a bone 458 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,239 Speaker 1: headed move. Randy Falco, the CEO at the time of 459 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,479 Speaker 1: the acquisition, would be removed from that position in two 460 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: thousand nine. He would be replaced by a former Google 461 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 1: executive named Tim Armstrong to take over at a o L. 462 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: And it is true that the acquisition was foolhardy ao 463 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 1: L paid way too much for Bibo. But what made 464 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 1: the matter worse was that two thousand eight, if you 465 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 1: remember I mentioned it earlier in the episode, that was 466 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: when we saw a massive economic downturn. A o L 467 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: would only hold onto Bibo for two years. It sold 468 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: it in two thousand and ten to a company called 469 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: Criterion Capital Partners or CCP, for reportedly less than ten 470 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: million dollars. So let that sink in. Bibo was bought 471 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 1: for eight hundred fifty million sold for less than ten million, 472 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: although some sources say it might have been as much 473 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: as twenty five million. Still, that's nothing compared to what 474 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: it was bought for. And that really puts it into 475 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 1: perspective with the MySpace story, because my Space was bought 476 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: for five million and sold for thirty five million. So 477 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: as bad as the MySpace deal was, it still was 478 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: better than Bibo. Now we should also remember this was 479 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: the same time that Facebook was overtaking my Space and 480 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: muscling out many of the other social networks out there, 481 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,479 Speaker 1: and Bibo, while initially grabbing onto some attention, was getting 482 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: progressively lost in this bigger picture with companies like Facebook 483 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: dominating the conversation. We'll talk about Bibo's fate, which takes 484 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: more twists and turns, but first let's take another quick break. 485 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 1: Oh okay, we left off with Bibo being acquired by 486 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: CCP Criteria Capital Partners at that time. Michael Birch, you know, 487 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: the husband of the husband wife team that created Bibo 488 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 1: in the first place, would invest in Bibo under Criterion Capital, 489 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: so he got reinvolved in his creation. Bibo under CCP 490 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: tried to reinvent itself. It did a full redesign, but 491 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: ultimately the economic pressures and the influence of Facebook meant 492 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: at the site just wasn't performing well. It wasn't attracting 493 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: enough users, it wasn't generating enough revenue, and ultimately CCP 494 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: declared bankruptcy in two thousand thirteen, and that's when the 495 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: husband wife team of the Birches swept back in. So 496 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: they had sold Bibo for eight hundred fifty million dollars. 497 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: In two thousand eight, they bought it back for let's see, 498 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: one million dollars. That is a heck of a deal. 499 00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: Sell it for eight hundred fifty million, buy it back 500 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: for one million. This is not the end of Bibo. 501 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: The story to continues to go bonkers bananas. So Bibo 502 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: then goes dark for nearly two years because the Birches 503 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: and their team they set about overhauling the platform. They're like, well, 504 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 1: obviously we can't come back just as Bibo. That's not 505 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: going to be successful. We have to figure out what 506 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: is Bibo moving forward because the social network space at 507 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: this point is truly dominated by Facebook. So this is 508 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: around two thirteen when Bibo goes dark. It would re 509 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 1: emerge in two thousand fifteen, but it had gone through 510 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: quite a few changes and it would continue to change. 511 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: So the first incarnation was called bibo Blab, which was 512 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 1: a messaging video app and you could send video messages 513 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: to your friends, so kind of like a text message, 514 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: but a video message, this little ephemeral video message that 515 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: you sent to your buddies, and it quickly gained a 516 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 1: few million users. Like it was popular early on, but 517 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: it didn't have any staying power. People quickly moved away 518 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: from Bibo to use other things. Part of the problem 519 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: might have been that it just didn't attract enough people 520 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: to adopt it and keep the service sustainable, because if 521 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: only half like like, if you adopt Bibo but none 522 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: of your friends do, well, then you just have half 523 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: a conversation going on as you generate these videos and 524 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: send them. But if they're not creating Bibo accounts, it's 525 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: not like you're getting anything back, and that's not much 526 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 1: fun to you know, only hold half a conversation unless 527 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: you're a podcaster. Bibo switched focus to e sports streaming, 528 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: and then it actually switched to organizing and running e 529 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:45,959 Speaker 1: sports tournaments, but this too proved to be unsustainable, and 530 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 1: in the same year this version of Biebo had launched, 531 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: the site would go dark again, so it didn't even 532 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: spend a full year being kind of an e sports entity. 533 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: But one company that paid attention to Bibou at this 534 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: time and thought there was some I P there that 535 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: would be really useful was Amazon, in the form of 536 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: its subsidiary Twitch now. Twitch, of course, is known primarily 537 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: as a platform for creators to stream themselves as they 538 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: play video games, although there are lots of other types 539 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: of channels as well. So Twitch purchased Bibo in two 540 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 1: thousand nineteen for maybe million dollars, maybe less than that. Again, 541 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: these deals are never fully public, so it's hard to say, 542 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,479 Speaker 1: but as long as it was more than one million dollars, 543 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: it would still be more than what the purchase spent 544 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: when they were buying it back in the first place. 545 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: Though obviously the subsequent investments in the platform to turn 546 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: it into the new Bibo where presumably more than that. 547 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: Then we get up to one. And to be honest, y'all, 548 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 1: I don't know how this all happened. I ran out 549 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: of time and I could not dive deep enough to 550 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 1: find out exactly the detail US behind us. I do 551 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: not know if Michael Birch simply retained the rights to 552 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,919 Speaker 1: the name Bibo or not, or if they purchased those 553 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,280 Speaker 1: rights back from Amazon. But in one Michael Birch posted 554 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: on Twitter the following message quote, AM launching Bibo dot 555 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 1: com as a social network next month. Have been coding 556 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,240 Speaker 1: it myself during lockdown. I put a coming soon page 557 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: up yesterday and it trended on Twitter in Ireland. Hopefully 558 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 1: the actual site does nearly as well. End quote. So 559 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 1: it sounded like the social network that started got bought 560 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,240 Speaker 1: and sold and shut down and reinvented and shut down again, 561 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: and reinvented again and shut down again and bought again, 562 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: was now going to be an independent social network once more. However, 563 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 1: it was not to be. So if you were to 564 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 1: go to Bibo dot com now you will see the 565 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:59,360 Speaker 1: following message quote. We tried our best to resurrect Bibo 566 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,719 Speaker 1: to create it's something new and fresh, but perhaps it 567 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,399 Speaker 1: wasn't new or fresh enough. This has been a fun 568 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: project built during the pandemic, but sadly it must be sunsetted. 569 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: We are grateful to everyone who joined us on this journey. 570 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:20,399 Speaker 1: Your support is greatly appreciated. Will Bibo rise again? Who knows? 571 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 1: It has now lived four times, been sold twice. M 572 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 1: It's been emotional Michael Birch. So, yeah, big dramatic story 573 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 1: that in two thousand and five, we got the launches 574 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 1: of a couple of sites that kind of overlap with 575 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 1: social networks, but neither of them quite fall neatly into 576 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 1: traditional social networks, and so I thought we would close 577 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 1: out with them because they are important. Even if you 578 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 1: don't think of them as your typical social networks, and 579 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,960 Speaker 1: those would be YouTube and Reddit. So let's do YouTube first, 580 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 1: and we won't go through a thorough history of YouTube 581 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,919 Speaker 1: because it's only tangentially related to social networks. But three 582 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 1: former PayPal employees, Steve Chen, Chad Hurley, and Joe and Karen, 583 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 1: they founded YouTube in two thousand five, and they were 584 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:17,399 Speaker 1: already pretty well off at the time because they had 585 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,439 Speaker 1: been working at PayPal, and then PayPal got bought out 586 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 1: by eBay, so they all got a handsome payout, but 587 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,719 Speaker 1: they wanted to go and make something of their own, 588 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 1: and they recognize that at the time, while you could 589 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 1: share digital photos online fairly easily, the same could not 590 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: be said for digital videos, and so they started to 591 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 1: design YouTube. They're actually multiple conflicting stories about what gave 592 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 1: them the real idea for YouTube and the focus of YouTube, 593 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:48,920 Speaker 1: Like there are a lot of stories that say that 594 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 1: YouTube initially was more kind of catering to dating, like 595 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 1: almost like computer dating, which would make it not that 596 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 1: different from say Facebook. But again there are a lot 597 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,800 Speaker 1: of inflicting stories because people have different memories, I guess, 598 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: and also some stories were drawned up more for the 599 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,239 Speaker 1: sake of publicity than others. So it's kind of hard 600 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,360 Speaker 1: to say what is truly reliable information about the founding 601 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,719 Speaker 1: of the company. But anyway, some of you all might 602 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 1: actually remember a time on the internet when if you 603 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,239 Speaker 1: wanted to watch a video, what that really meant was 604 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 1: that you would go to a site, you would download 605 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 1: a video file to your local computer, and then use 606 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,279 Speaker 1: a desktop based app to launch the video and watch it. 607 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,760 Speaker 1: I mean, that's how I remember watching the first season 608 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: of Red Versus Blue from Rooster Teeth. That way, I 609 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 1: would download the videos and then watch them on my computer. 610 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 1: There were very few video solutions that were online at 611 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 1: that time, though there were a couple. I mean, in fact, 612 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 1: video was already in existence when YouTube was just taking shape. 613 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:59,440 Speaker 1: They just wasn't being used or promoted very much. Famously, 614 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,919 Speaker 1: the first video on YouTube published in April two five. 615 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 1: It was called Me at the Zoo and I had 616 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,880 Speaker 1: one of the co founders at the San Diego Zoo. 617 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 1: And YouTube would open a public beta a month later 618 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,320 Speaker 1: and invite people to join in and start uploading videos. 619 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,479 Speaker 1: It would officially launch in December of two thousand five. 620 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,959 Speaker 1: Early on users had to work within some pretty strict limitations. 621 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,640 Speaker 1: Video files could be no larger than just a hundred megabytes, 622 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,320 Speaker 1: so they were really short. It would actually take quite 623 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,840 Speaker 1: some time before YouTube would really shift toward promoting longer 624 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:39,360 Speaker 1: form content. For years there was a hard limit of 625 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: ten minutes for the vast majority of users on YouTube, 626 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:48,920 Speaker 1: and then eventually those restrictions would become less and less important, 627 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:53,480 Speaker 1: with YouTube really focusing on long form content at a point, 628 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 1: and now it's kind of shifting back to short form 629 00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 1: as platforms like TikTok gain more more popularity. But even 630 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,280 Speaker 1: before YouTube had launched out of its beta, the site 631 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 1: was attracting tens of thousands of visitors every day, and 632 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,319 Speaker 1: by January two thousand six, they were racking up more 633 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,400 Speaker 1: than twenty five million views of the videos on the 634 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,960 Speaker 1: site every day. The trajectory was really clear. By the 635 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 1: summer of two thousand and six, the number of views 636 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:27,840 Speaker 1: per day topped a hundred million, And with this success 637 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,360 Speaker 1: came some problems. There were technical demands to keep the 638 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:35,560 Speaker 1: site up and operational, and they were increasing dramatically, so 639 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:40,080 Speaker 1: it was an important and expensive job to add more 640 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,839 Speaker 1: computational assets like storage and stuff in order to keep 641 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:47,560 Speaker 1: YouTube going plus people were already showing a bit of 642 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:51,359 Speaker 1: a tendency to upload videos that you know, they didn't 643 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,920 Speaker 1: actually own the rights too, So various entertainment studios in 644 00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 1: the worlds of music, movies, and television really and a 645 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:04,439 Speaker 1: crackdown on YouTube due to the proliferation of copyright infringement 646 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: across the site. Fortunately, Big Daddy Google came a call 647 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:14,360 Speaker 1: in in November two thousand six and signed an acquisition 648 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: deal with YouTube, purchasing YouTube in a deal that was 649 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,440 Speaker 1: valued at one point six five billion with a B 650 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 1: dollars in stock, so each co founder walked away with 651 00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 1: the equivalent of around four hundred million dollars. Yeawsa. Google 652 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 1: got to work smoothing out issues with the various entertainment studios, 653 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,600 Speaker 1: and in a rare move, it would keep YouTube as 654 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:43,680 Speaker 1: its own separate company, so it did not directly incorporate 655 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:48,440 Speaker 1: YouTube into Google's empire the way it would with other purchases. 656 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 1: Then we entered into the early age of viral videos, 657 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,520 Speaker 1: and YouTube would later introduce a partner program which will 658 00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,840 Speaker 1: allow content creators to make money off of advertising that 659 00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:03,600 Speaker 1: was served against their videos. That story has its own 660 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,959 Speaker 1: set of dramatic turns, like I could do a full 661 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:10,920 Speaker 1: series of episodes about YouTube's partner program. But anyway, the 662 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,120 Speaker 1: debut of the iPhone and the evolution of the web 663 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 1: into something the average person would access, you know, anywhere 664 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,640 Speaker 1: with the benefit of a mobile device would really fuel 665 00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:24,399 Speaker 1: YouTube's growth quite a bit. And Google would later make 666 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,280 Speaker 1: some choices about profiles and log ins that would affect YouTube. 667 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:30,719 Speaker 1: There was a time when Google, in an effort to 668 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:35,440 Speaker 1: encourage more accountability, was cracking down on user names, but 669 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 1: that move would get a lot of resistance from multiple 670 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,560 Speaker 1: groups of people, and Google would ease off on those requirements. 671 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:42,880 Speaker 1: I'm not really diving into that because we're going to 672 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,120 Speaker 1: talk about that more when we get to Google Plus. 673 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,000 Speaker 1: While there are vloggers on YouTube who have their own 674 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,240 Speaker 1: communities around them, it's fair to say that YouTube isn't 675 00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:57,400 Speaker 1: really a social network the way other networks are. It is, however, 676 00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,400 Speaker 1: a platform that has played an important part with social works, 677 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,840 Speaker 1: as people have shared YouTube videos elsewhere and as people 678 00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 1: have grown communities around their their content. All right, so 679 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,759 Speaker 1: let's finish up with Reddit. In two thousand five, Alexis 680 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,560 Speaker 1: Ohanian and Steve Hoffman were attending the University of Virginia 681 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,040 Speaker 1: and they were working on a new idea for the web. 682 00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,520 Speaker 1: Their early efforts merged fairly quickly with another project called 683 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:27,480 Speaker 1: info Gami, which was led by Aaron Schwartz, and he 684 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:31,399 Speaker 1: joined the co founders for Reddit, and together they wanted 685 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,040 Speaker 1: to create a website where users could build little subdomains 686 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:39,799 Speaker 1: dedicated to specific interests and hobbies, so folks could visit 687 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,120 Speaker 1: the site and then they could go to whichever of 688 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:47,719 Speaker 1: the subdomains or subreddits as they became known that they 689 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,919 Speaker 1: found interesting. So maybe you like fly fishing, well, there's 690 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,680 Speaker 1: a subreddit for that. Maybe you like politics, there are 691 00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:59,520 Speaker 1: multiple subreddits for that. Maybe you like Disney, there are 692 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:04,200 Speaker 1: sub credits for that. So users can contribute to conversations, 693 00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:08,000 Speaker 1: they can post in threads and leave messages for each other. 694 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,560 Speaker 1: They can create new threads that are based on whatever 695 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:15,640 Speaker 1: the subredit is focused on, and gradually communities would form 696 00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:19,360 Speaker 1: around these and some of those communities would become incredibly 697 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:24,800 Speaker 1: influential and important, some of them would become unbelievably toxic, 698 00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:29,520 Speaker 1: and some would be both. The founders referred to Reddit 699 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,680 Speaker 1: as the front page of the Internet. So the idea 700 00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:38,040 Speaker 1: is that users are curating interesting content relating to you know, whatever, 701 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:43,360 Speaker 1: specific interests that relate to particular subredits, and then they 702 00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,440 Speaker 1: share that content, they publish it within those subredits, and 703 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:51,759 Speaker 1: some subredits would become wildly popular and have tens of 704 00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,319 Speaker 1: thousands of people involved in it and get tons of 705 00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:58,960 Speaker 1: users in traffic and engagement. Some are much more niche 706 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,279 Speaker 1: and they have a much smaller community, but that community 707 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 1: can still have a really strong emotional investment in the 708 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:09,200 Speaker 1: subject matter and be really engaged in the community. It's 709 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:13,040 Speaker 1: still just a niche interest. And this idea really caught on, 710 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:18,360 Speaker 1: and one year after launching, the publisher Conde Nast would 711 00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,239 Speaker 1: come along and scoop up Reddit for somewhere between ten 712 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:25,000 Speaker 1: and twenty million dollars and read It would remain nestled 713 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:29,000 Speaker 1: under Conde Nast until two thousand eleven, and then read 714 00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:33,760 Speaker 1: It became a full subsidiary of Conde Nast's own parent company, 715 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:39,360 Speaker 1: Advanced Publications. So Reddit also is not your typical social 716 00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:43,000 Speaker 1: network site. Users can create a profile, they have a 717 00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:46,680 Speaker 1: user name, they use a password to access it. They 718 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,600 Speaker 1: can subscribe to specific sub credits that they're interested in, 719 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,400 Speaker 1: they can leave messages for each other, and all that 720 00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,600 Speaker 1: sort of stuff. In addition in the site introduced the 721 00:44:55,640 --> 00:45:00,480 Speaker 1: concept of gold memberships, also known as Reddit Premium. This 722 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,520 Speaker 1: would bring in revenue for Reddit that would supplement the 723 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,520 Speaker 1: money that was already coming in from advertising. So you 724 00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,879 Speaker 1: might say, well, what what does a Reddit premium member get? So, 725 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,560 Speaker 1: Reddit Premium membership has a few benefits. For what, it 726 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:18,560 Speaker 1: lets users browse Reddit without ads, so they don't see 727 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,160 Speaker 1: the ads or the promoted reddits, which, by the way, 728 00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:25,719 Speaker 1: it's kind of like promoted Google search results, where it 729 00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:30,239 Speaker 1: can appear like it's just a normal entry in a subreddit, 730 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,520 Speaker 1: and if you don't notice the fact that it was promoted, 731 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:34,759 Speaker 1: you might just think, oh, some user has submitted this, 732 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,760 Speaker 1: but in fact it is an ad. But yeah, premium 733 00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,279 Speaker 1: members don't see those. They also get a monthly allowance 734 00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:45,960 Speaker 1: of Reddit coins that also sometimes is known as Reddit gold. 735 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,680 Speaker 1: But that made things really confusing because the premium membership 736 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,000 Speaker 1: is called Reddit gold and the coins would also be 737 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,000 Speaker 1: called Reddit gold. So they get confused and you might say, well, 738 00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,840 Speaker 1: what can you even buy with Reddit coins. Well, you 739 00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:02,160 Speaker 1: can use them to buy awards to give other folks 740 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,880 Speaker 1: on Reddit. Those Reddit coins are really meant to provide 741 00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:09,640 Speaker 1: benefits to other users, so Let's say you've got coins 742 00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,759 Speaker 1: and you use them to purchase an award for a 743 00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,120 Speaker 1: Reddit user who has posted something that you think is 744 00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,400 Speaker 1: really cool, or they made a really good point in 745 00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,160 Speaker 1: a thread, or they're just being incredibly helpful and you 746 00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,600 Speaker 1: want to award them. You can give them an award, 747 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:28,200 Speaker 1: and that award might allow that redd user some certain benefits, 748 00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,400 Speaker 1: like maybe it will give them some Reddit coins, or 749 00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:34,480 Speaker 1: maybe it will let them browse Reddit without ads for 750 00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,399 Speaker 1: a while, that kind of thing. So the reddit coin 751 00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:40,759 Speaker 1: system allows users to purchase awards for other users, and 752 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:45,240 Speaker 1: as far as I can tell, those awards have limited value, 753 00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:50,120 Speaker 1: which is interesting because holy cow, there can be a 754 00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:55,160 Speaker 1: lot of I guess not competition, but requests to be 755 00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:59,080 Speaker 1: recognized like people. And there are a lot of accusations 756 00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,520 Speaker 1: that you'll see on Reddit on occasion where people will 757 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,399 Speaker 1: accuse others of pandering in an effort to get more 758 00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,719 Speaker 1: Reddit coins. But what do I know. I'm just a 759 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,960 Speaker 1: casual Reddit user. I don't pretend like I fully understand 760 00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,840 Speaker 1: the community there. I definitely see Reddit as being incredibly useful, 761 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,239 Speaker 1: particularly if you want to get a good view of 762 00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:22,360 Speaker 1: how a community is thinking about a specific topic. In 763 00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:26,840 Speaker 1: any given amount of time, but beyond that, I find 764 00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:32,239 Speaker 1: the community dynamics to be puzzling at best. Again, I'm 765 00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:35,160 Speaker 1: grouchy and I'm old. Anyway, Reddit, as I said, is 766 00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:39,960 Speaker 1: tangentially related to social networks. There are communities. Users can 767 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:43,719 Speaker 1: become really well known or infamous depending upon their reputations 768 00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:48,839 Speaker 1: within those communities, and beyond, entire communities can become incredibly influential, 769 00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,120 Speaker 1: or due to the spread of toxic behavior and abuse, 770 00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:56,200 Speaker 1: they can be wiped from Reddit entirely. It's a wild place, 771 00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:00,040 Speaker 1: all right. That's enough about Reddit, Like I said, and 772 00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,400 Speaker 1: I could do a full episode and probably will do 773 00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,320 Speaker 1: a full episode about Reddit and kind of dive into 774 00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:09,239 Speaker 1: it's evolution because a lot of things have happened on 775 00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,719 Speaker 1: that platform over the years and have changed it dramatically 776 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,160 Speaker 1: from one incarnation to the next. And I can also 777 00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,840 Speaker 1: talk about Reddit versus dig That would be fun. But 778 00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:24,160 Speaker 1: that's it for this episode. Next time we will tackle Twitter, 779 00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,040 Speaker 1: which will probably take up a large part of the episode, 780 00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:29,920 Speaker 1: and a few other social networks. If you would like 781 00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:33,440 Speaker 1: to suggest topics for future episodes of of Tech Stuff, 782 00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:36,880 Speaker 1: including big stories in two I should cover in my 783 00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,279 Speaker 1: end of the year wrap up let me know. You 784 00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,359 Speaker 1: can download the iHeart Radio app for free. Navigate over 785 00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:44,560 Speaker 1: to tech Stuff in the search field, there's a little 786 00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:47,040 Speaker 1: microphone icon. You can leave me a voice message up 787 00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:49,880 Speaker 1: to thirty seconds in length, or if you prefer, you 788 00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,280 Speaker 1: can use Twitter. The handle for the show is tech 789 00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,960 Speaker 1: Stuff H s W and I'll Talk to You Again 790 00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:05,680 Speaker 1: release and text Stuff is an i heart Radio production. 791 00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:08,759 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the i 792 00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:12,080 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 793 00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:13,040 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.