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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney. Alongside

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Speaker 2: my co host Matt Miller.

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Speaker 1: Every business day we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros,

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Speaker 1: and Bloomberg experts, along with essential market moven News.

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Speaker 2: Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast called Apple Podcasts or wherever

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Speaker 2: you listen to podcasts, and at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast.

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Speaker 2: Let's go back out to the West Coast to San Francisco.

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Speaker 2: Space Discuss is spinning off Starlink via IPO as soon

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Speaker 2: as twenty twenty four. I don't know what's going on there,

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Speaker 2: but Ed Ludlow does. He's the host of Bloomberg Technology.

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Speaker 2: He's out there somewhere in California, I don't know where.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes he's in the desert for these rocket launches.

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Speaker 1: Dude, as soon as late twenty twenty four, that's not

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Speaker 1: soon at all, exactly.

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Speaker 2: I'm not putting that in mind.

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Speaker 1: As far away as late twenty twenty four, that's like

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Speaker 1: one hundred years from now, exactly.

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Speaker 2: What's happening with our good friends at SpaceX.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, all good points and sources tell us that this IPO,

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Speaker 3: which is a spin off as Starlink as a separate unit,

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Speaker 3: could happen towards the end of twenty twenty four, the

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Speaker 3: end of twenty twenty four. We have an election to

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Speaker 3: bear that in mind, and if not twenty twenty four

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Speaker 3: to twenty twenty five, And Matt, you're completely right, that

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Speaker 3: is distant. But this is highly anticipated, right, you know,

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Speaker 3: given the recent news flow must confirming that Starlink, which

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Speaker 3: is SpaceX's satellite consolation based internet service, has reached cash

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Speaker 3: flow break even. That is what he has said pretty

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Speaker 3: consistently over the years, would be the trigger to work

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Speaker 3: towards a listing spinning off through a listing, and what

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Speaker 3: my colleagues and I are reporting is that even though

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Speaker 3: that is far away, they're taking really material steps towards

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Speaker 3: doing that. So, for example, one source told me that

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Speaker 3: they're already shifting Starlink's assets, it's business assets, it's people,

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Speaker 3: to a new wholly owned subsidiary to prepare it to

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Speaker 3: be a sort of standalone unit ahead of an IPO.

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Speaker 1: The amazing thing to me, you write this in your

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Speaker 1: story with Gillian Tan and a couple of other Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: News reporters. They're expecting starlink to generate ten billion dollars

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Speaker 1: in revenue next year, which eclipses that of the rocket

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Speaker 1: launch business at SpaceX. So it's essentially a bigger It's

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Speaker 1: essentially their core business at SpaceX, right, at least judging by.

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Speaker 3: Sales, exactly right, it's essentially their core business. So what

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Speaker 3: we reported was that revenues due to significantly next year

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Speaker 3: to around fifteen billion dollars.

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Speaker 4: This year, overall it will.

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Speaker 3: Be about nine billion dollars, with a pretty even split

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Speaker 3: between Launch and Starlink, But next year Starlink will be

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Speaker 3: the vast majority, more than ten billion.

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Speaker 4: Guys.

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Speaker 3: I just want to say for sheer transparency with the

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Speaker 3: audience that as soon as we publish the story. Elon

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Speaker 3: Musk responded to a user on X, the platform formerly

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Speaker 3: known as Twitter, who had posted a screen grab of

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Speaker 3: the story and image of it, and musk response was

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Speaker 3: one single word, which was false.

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Speaker 4: So on the.

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Speaker 3: Face of it, Musk is denying the accuracy of our report.

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Speaker 3: But I would also tell our audience this is not

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Speaker 3: the first time Musk has replied or posted on x

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Speaker 3: about something I've reported saying it's false that in the

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Speaker 3: end is proved completely true by regulatory or legal filings

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Speaker 3: or otherwise.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this sounds like a really you know, cool business,

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Speaker 2: admirable business, you know, connecting parts of the world that

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Speaker 2: you know can't get you know, I guess internet connectivity.

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Speaker 2: Besides it, are their competitors to Starlink out there.

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Speaker 3: Well, the legacy into a space based internet company is

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Speaker 3: like Viasat, for example, But they've just not been able

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Speaker 3: to make this a business in the way or the

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Speaker 3: speed that Stalink has. You remember, Paul, when I was

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Speaker 3: in New York last week, we talked about Starlink's revenues

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Speaker 3: and the reason that it's worth discussing and reporting the

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Speaker 3: stepping stones towards an IPO is that this is the

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Speaker 3: mainstay of SpaceX's future. Right, everyone kind of wants an

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Speaker 3: association or investment into an Elon Musk company. SpaceX is

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Speaker 3: a private company, and although there is some liquidity in

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Speaker 3: the trading of its shares on the secondaries market and

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Speaker 3: from time to time a tender offer where employees can

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Speaker 3: sell shares, there isn't really much opportunity to have ownership

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Speaker 3: of it. So there's a lot of interest here. But

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Speaker 3: Starlink has been a game changer for people to access

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Speaker 3: the Internet around the world where they otherwise have not

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Speaker 3: been able to because of the satellite and ground receiver

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Speaker 3: based technology.

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Speaker 1: Well, and a lot of people first heard about Starlink

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Speaker 1: because of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the Ukrainians using Starlink

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Speaker 1: to defend themselves. There there is a competitor from Jeff Bezos, right,

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Speaker 1: it can't pronounce it, but it's like Project.

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Speaker 4: Creeper Kuiper Kuiper.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, because it's kui.

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Speaker 3: Well exactly so, and what they're trying to do is

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Speaker 3: the same thing. Jeff Bezos has a rocket company. It's

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Speaker 3: called Blue Origin, but in the first instance, they're relying

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Speaker 3: on United Launch Alliance to put and other carriers sort

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Speaker 3: of legacy rocket companies to put Kuyper satellite constellations into space.

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Speaker 3: They have a very small, like single digit number of

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Speaker 3: early prototypes. But it's this idea that you know, you can.

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Speaker 1: Have whereas starlink has five thousand, right.

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Speaker 3: Ed exactly, And not only does Stalink have five thousand

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Speaker 3: or in the thousands that you know, these are satellites

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Speaker 3: which go in lower orbit, and from time to time

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Speaker 3: they have to be decommissioned or they get broken. But

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Speaker 3: the other success of SpaceX is that it kind of

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Speaker 3: feeds itself, right. You and I cover so many launches

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Speaker 3: so regularly, and SpaceX has a rocket launch company where

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Speaker 3: it's able to put its own constellation or maintain its

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Speaker 3: own constellation with constant launching. And so let's fast forward

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Speaker 3: just a little bit real quick. This Friday, we might

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Speaker 3: see Starship attempt to second full launch. It's big, shiny,

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Speaker 3: pointy rocket you may have seen. And the significance of

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Speaker 3: that is not just that that technology has the long

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Speaker 3: term goal.

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Speaker 4: Of getting humans to Mars.

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Speaker 3: I can hear Paul's eyes rolling and increasing, but actually,

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Speaker 3: if they can get starship to be successful. It's the

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Speaker 3: most powerful rocket ever designed and made. Then they can

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Speaker 3: even ramp up Starlink even further and take that five

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Speaker 3: thousand constellation to ten thousand, fifteen thousand, thirty thousand. And

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Speaker 3: actually at Bloomberg Intelligence they've crunched numbers on that and

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Speaker 3: it basically helps you dominate connectivity worldwide.

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Speaker 2: So to date ed has has Elon been funding SpaceX

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Speaker 2: just out of his own pocket?

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Speaker 4: Well, I love that story.

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Speaker 3: You know, you guys have been at Bloomberg a long

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Speaker 3: time right on the news side, and we historically have

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Speaker 3: not covered private companies as closely as we cover public

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Speaker 3: companies for obvious reasons. But the cap table SpaceX is fascinating.

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Speaker 3: You have names like Fidelity and Sequoia on there. You

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Speaker 3: have high networth individuals. You have Elon Musk and gwin

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Speaker 3: Shotwell who Elon Musk being the CEO, gwinshot Well being

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Speaker 3: the president and CEO of that company. There have been

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Speaker 3: tender offers again, that's where staff can sell their stock

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Speaker 3: units that they receive as compensation to buyers on the

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Speaker 3: secondary market for simply liquidity. But when that opportunity comes

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Speaker 3: abound sort of traditional asset or investment managers, high networth individuals,

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Speaker 3: even retail investors clamor to get a piece of that.

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Speaker 3: Partly because of what we've reported. There might be a

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Speaker 3: Starlink IPO soon at the end of next year, but

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Speaker 3: also you just want to own something because of elon

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Speaker 3: musk track record. So the cat table is really interesting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a great new podcast, Elon Inc. Have you

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Speaker 1: been listening to right now? That's from Bloomberg Business Week. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: David Papadopolis. I never realized that he has such a

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Speaker 1: good voice for radio. I mean I've heard him, you know,

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Speaker 1: yammering at me in the newsroom and it's not the same.

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Speaker 1: But Elon Inc. What a cool podcast, which covers obviously

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Speaker 1: all of the you know, the whole empire. So starlink

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Speaker 1: SpaceX boring Tesla Twitter, which some people insist on calling

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Speaker 1: X and it's it's such a cool, cool thing. So

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Speaker 1: Starlink maybe at the end of next year, but we

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Speaker 1: won't be able to get ahold of the launch business

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Speaker 1: of SpaceX as a public company.

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Speaker 3: My understanding and the understanding of my colleagues who reported

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Speaker 3: the stories is that once if Starlink spins off into

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Speaker 3: a public company space X. The remainder, which is largely

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Speaker 3: the launch business, remains a private company, you know, and

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Speaker 3: the transaction, based on past precedent is, you know, every

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Speaker 3: SpaceX shareholder of nottal record would receive receive an equivalent

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Speaker 3: volume of Starlink shares. Obviously their value would be changed

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Speaker 3: relative to whatever they held the private SpaceX stock at.

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Speaker 3: So that will be interesting. And just on that, there's

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Speaker 3: only so much money you can make sending things into orbit, right,

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Speaker 3: the per launch margin is much lower than the databased business.

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Speaker 4: So MOSCA said in the.

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Speaker 3: Past that it could cap out at like three billion

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Speaker 3: dollars of sales a year. Actually i'd heard that this

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Speaker 3: year it's more like four billion, four and a half billion.

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Speaker 3: But it has a limit.

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Speaker 1: I know that because I read ed Ludlow's reporting do

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Speaker 1: you look at you? And I watch and listened to

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Speaker 1: him on Bloomberg radio and television.

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Speaker 2: SpaceX ways spinning off Starlink via IPO as soon as

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, but following Bloomberg, ship work must called it.

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Speaker 2: Quote Foss in a post on ex social media platform

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Speaker 2: he owns without elaborating, ed, Ludlow, thanks so much. We

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Speaker 2: appreciate it. Ed Ludlow, he's a host of Bloomberg Technology.

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Speaker 4: He's wired in.

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Speaker 5: You're listening to the team can'shur live program Bloomberg Markets

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Speaker 5: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the

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Speaker 5: iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on

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Speaker 5: demand wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Jay Heffel joins us. He's a CEO, founder and portfolio

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Speaker 2: manager of Infrastructural Capital Managers ADVISORCY joins us here live

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Speaker 2: in the studio. He doesn't phone it in. Folks, Jay,

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Speaker 2: there's no inflation out there. You've been saying this for

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Speaker 2: a long time. Inflation has been coming down. CPI dated

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Speaker 2: this week, PPI dated this week. That surprised you at

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Speaker 2: all because it seems like some positive surprise for the market.

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Speaker 6: Thanks Paul and Matt. Well, we've been pretty public. We

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Speaker 6: put out a piece on October thirty first, and we

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Speaker 6: said this on National TV last week that this the

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Speaker 6: CPI and PPI would print cool. But that's not because

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Speaker 6: we speak to God or anything. It's simply that we

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Speaker 6: focus on oil prices and energy prices as a leading indicator,

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Speaker 6: and what's not appreciated even by our Federal Reserve, which

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Speaker 6: is hard to believe, is there's a substantial bleed through

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Speaker 6: of energy prices to core and we did see that.

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Speaker 6: If you think about it, there is no business in

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Speaker 6: the United States it doesn't use energy, but some use

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Speaker 6: a gigantic amount of energy. So food is forty percent

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Speaker 6: energy airline fares, so you get both an immediate bleed

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Speaker 6: throup to goin airline, our airline fares eventually to food.

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Speaker 6: And so that's one reason we've been bullish and thought

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Speaker 6: the rates were too high at five percent. We thought

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Speaker 6: they'd come down to kind of this range and might

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Speaker 6: stall out around here. But I would focus on energy.

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Speaker 6: And then also the other strange point about this report

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Speaker 6: is we kind of already know next month's report, so

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Speaker 6: you don't have TOPI yes, because what happened, which is

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Speaker 6: pretty unusual, is that it was sort of like a

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Speaker 6: bell went off the first day of October and gasoline

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Speaker 6: latively dropped ten percent during the month.

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Speaker 5: YEP.

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Speaker 6: So guess what, Only five percent was reflected in October,

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Speaker 6: and there's gonna be another five next month and we're

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Speaker 6: already halfway through the month, so it's unlikely to skyrocket.

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Speaker 6: And also retail is lagged.

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Speaker 2: And just to that point, the daily national average gasoline

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Speaker 2: price regular unleaded three dollars and thirty four cents today.

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Speaker 2: It was three dollars and ninety cents just back in

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Speaker 2: mid septem.

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Speaker 6: Right, And we kind of know that that will decline

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Speaker 6: for the rest of the month because what happens is

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Speaker 6: when wholesale comes down, there's a lag because you have

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Speaker 6: inventory in the channel. So the chances we kind of

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Speaker 6: already know that we're going to have a cool CPI

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Speaker 6: and PPI both headline and core for next month as well.

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Speaker 6: So that's pretty bullish.

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Speaker 1: But now now the core is what really counts, right,

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Speaker 1: because the energy price is really our transitory. The swings

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Speaker 1: that we've seen just in the last year show you

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Speaker 1: that I quote your CPI R index quite often, which

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Speaker 1: is your own proprietary index. I find it on the

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Speaker 1: infracap Funds dot com page, and it's come down substantially

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Speaker 1: compared to what the BLS gives us. Their core CPI

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Speaker 1: right now is four spot one to three, right, and

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Speaker 1: yours is, oh sorry, this is September, but it was

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Speaker 1: four point one three and yours was one point three

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Speaker 1: percent after having come down below one. Yours was also

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Speaker 1: higher than the highest core CPI back in June of

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Speaker 1: last year, so it was higher, it's been much lower.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it's possible that inflation resurges again, Well, I.

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Speaker 6: Wouldn't totally ignore the energy price dynamic because that does

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Speaker 6: feed through to the whole economy.

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Speaker 4: It has knock on effects.

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Speaker 6: And keep in mind that we have an eighty percent

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Speaker 6: cost advantage on natural gas too, because we're the Saudi

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Speaker 6: Arabia of natural gas and that affects electricity. So it

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Speaker 6: is a long term bull factor that we have low

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Speaker 6: energy prices in the US. But with regard to the

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Speaker 6: potential for a resurgence, yes, the answer is there's a

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Speaker 6: little bit of a sign of that, and that's why

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Speaker 6: it's better to look at case Shiller than the ridiculous

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Speaker 6: stuff that the BLS puts out. So we actually have

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Speaker 6: had like for instance, we just marked oart. We didn't

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Speaker 6: update our website yet, but we just put out a

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Speaker 6: lease yesterday that now our measures up to two. So

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Speaker 6: because case Shiller is actually ticking up now, I would

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Speaker 6: still see.

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Speaker 1: So it was one point three in September. In the

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Speaker 1: month before that, it was like zero point eighty nine. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and now it's at two, so your index is indeed

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Speaker 1: coming back.

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Speaker 6: Up, right. So I mean, if the FED was ever

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Speaker 6: looked at it, of course they might start to be worried,

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Speaker 6: but they're worried about what it was like a year

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Speaker 6: and a half ago. So but I would still say

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Speaker 6: that the chances of rate skyrocketing with the FED having

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Speaker 6: short term rates above five and mortgage rates almost almost

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Speaker 6: a day eight percent, is pretty low. It's not impossible,

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Speaker 6: but it's pretty low. So we're not really concerned about that.

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Speaker 6: We think it's kind of just normalizing. And also rents

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Speaker 6: do matter, and there are a lot of apartments coming

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Speaker 6: online in the next year, so the chances of a

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Speaker 6: big resurgence in housing costs are pretty low. And then

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Speaker 6: it's not really going to affect FED policy because it

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Speaker 6: would take them eighteen months to figure out that it

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Speaker 6: was actually happening.

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Speaker 2: So what are we doing here? I know you're still

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Speaker 2: bullish on bonds here, So how are you guys kind

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Speaker 2: of positioning yourselves these days?

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Speaker 6: Well, you know, we're we sort of are the self

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Speaker 6: proclaimed preferred stock kings, so we love it is self proclaimed,

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Speaker 6: by the way, but we'd love preferred stocks if you

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Speaker 6: really look at it, particularly funds like ours have actually

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Speaker 6: outperformed like almost all other fixed income so they have

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Speaker 6: higher coupons, which means they have lower duration. You can

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Speaker 6: look all this up in the terminal because duration is

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Speaker 6: kind of hard to calculate. And what also happens with

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Speaker 6: preferreds a lot of retail investors sell them in downturns,

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Speaker 6: so you can buy them well below par. And then

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Speaker 6: the final thing is very unusual about the asset class.

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Speaker 6: It has a lot of fixed to floating. So our

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Speaker 6: fund's about over fifty percent fixed to floating. And why

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Speaker 6: that's important is that all these rates were set when

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Speaker 6: FED funds is at two. They're bumping up the five,

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Speaker 6: so you're getting a three percent bump in a good

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Speaker 6: portion of it. So we would urge investors to take

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Speaker 6: a look at that. You can buy funds like ours,

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Speaker 6: or you can do it directly. If you do it directly,

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Speaker 6: you might want to get a terminal though, beause it's

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Speaker 6: pretty complicated.

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Speaker 1: You have to look up all the Yes, you should

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Speaker 1: get a terminal.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: Thanks.

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Speaker 1: You can use the infracap funds dot com website for

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Speaker 1: your inflation data. Everything else on the Bloomberg terminal. Jay,

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Speaker 1: we called you in here because the EU says that

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Speaker 1: the Euro Area and its biggest economies are going to

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Speaker 1: avoid a recession. You've been bearish on the European Union.

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Speaker 1: What do you think is going to happen in that economy.

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Speaker 6: Well, we prefer real time data as opposed to like

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Speaker 6: econometric models, and so if you follow the recent data,

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Speaker 6: even this morning on eco Eurozone, there was a terrible

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Speaker 6: industrial production report that came out forgot I think it's

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Speaker 6: over down over one percent. But also you can access

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Speaker 6: on the web the equivalent of the Atlanta GDP now

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Speaker 6: and so the Eurozone GDP now is tracking at a

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Speaker 6: negative one point two percent annualized rate. And mean the

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Speaker 6: quarters early on to be fair, but that was also

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Speaker 6: you know, presaging that we would have a recession last

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Speaker 6: quarter too, and then all that's just the individual data

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Speaker 6: is terrible and there's no bowl case because we had

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Speaker 6: two rate increases last quarter. And keep in mind that

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Speaker 6: forty five percent of mortgages are floating rate in Europe,

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Speaker 6: so those those increases haven't even yet shown up in

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Speaker 6: retail sales, so there's and they of course don't have

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Speaker 6: the energy costs advantag They don't have any of the

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Speaker 6: advantage of us. They don't have a shortge of housing,

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Speaker 6: they don't have countercyclical infrastructure spending. Their natural gas prices

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Speaker 6: are five times ours, so we have a big gun.

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Speaker 6: So they're really kind of a disaster in our data shows.

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Speaker 6: And I wouldn't be too focused on your official forecast

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Speaker 6: because they update them every y're a little bit like

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Speaker 6: the BLS. They updated every six months, so it's you be.

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Speaker 1: The last industrial production in the Eurozone fell one point

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Speaker 1: one percent. That was worse and expected. That data just

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Speaker 1: out about ten hours ago, and industrial production year over

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Speaker 1: year was down six point.

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Speaker 6: Nine per It's just awful.

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Speaker 2: It's very bad, all right, Jay, thanks so much for

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Speaker 2: coming in again. Really appreciate taking a walk across town.

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Speaker 2: Jay Hatfield, he's the CEO, he is the founder, and

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Speaker 2: he's a portfolio manager of Infrastructure Capital Advisors. They like

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Speaker 2: preferred stocks. You don't hear that too often.

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Speaker 4: That's pretty cool.

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Speaker 5: You're listening to the Take cans Our Live program Bloomberg

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Speaker 5: Markets at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune

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Speaker 5: in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business app.

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Speaker 5: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

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Speaker 5: flagship New York station, just say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 2: Check out our next guest right away, Chris Wellen. He's

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Speaker 2: a chairman of Whalen Global Advisors. Chris, thanks so much

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Speaker 2: for joining us via zoom here. I mean, you look

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Speaker 2: at this market over the past couple of days, it's

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Speaker 2: basically telling you inflation is whipped, we've seen peak rates.

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Speaker 2: What do you take away from some of the data

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Speaker 2: we've received over the past couple of days.

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Speaker 7: Well, the fact that we're looking at data of this

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Speaker 7: maturity tells you something we should take us somewhat more

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Speaker 7: nuanced approach. I think to rates because the volatility has

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Speaker 7: been so enormous one way and another, and also the

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Speaker 7: quality of you know, forward rates. For example, the thirty

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Speaker 7: and sixty day rates in the mortgage market, which is

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Speaker 7: the found of the treasury market, by the way, has

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Speaker 7: been all over the place. So today I would tell

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Speaker 7: you the belly of the curve that contract closest to

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Speaker 7: par is still a six and a half to a seven,

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Speaker 7: So that means to make money they have to be

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Speaker 7: writing seven and three quarter percent mortgages. If not eights,

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Speaker 7: you know what I mean. So things have yet to

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Speaker 7: settle down, even though we rallied a point and yield

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Speaker 7: over the last what week. So the aspirational aspects of

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Speaker 7: this I think cannot be dismissed.

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Speaker 1: So you've got to be writing higher rate mortgages. And

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Speaker 1: how is the mortgage outlook right now, Chris, because the

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Speaker 1: housing market seems to have ground to a halt, at

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Speaker 1: least in terms of existing homes, which means probably very

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Speaker 1: few people are going out and getting those mortgages.

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Speaker 7: Well, it's largely a cash buyer's market today. You're seeing

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Speaker 7: compression above the meat, which is about four hundred and

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Speaker 7: fifty thousand dollars. By the way, the average is three thirty.

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Speaker 7: I think if you look at the mortgage bankers data,

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Speaker 7: so you know, the way I would say it is,

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Speaker 7: we were dragging the you'll curve up. So it's been

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Speaker 7: very hard for lenders to make any premium when they

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Speaker 7: sell their loans into the bond market, and that's changed

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Speaker 7: a bit. You may also see some lenders have a

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Speaker 7: good quarter because of the rate rally we've seen. You know,

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Speaker 7: we had a pretty decent quarter in the second quarter

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Speaker 7: for a lot of publicly traded lenders as well. So

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Speaker 7: when the sunshine they make hey, and I think, you know,

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Speaker 7: we'll just have to see because the next auction we

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Speaker 7: could be having a tough time and you could see

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Speaker 7: rates back up again. So for you know, mortgage lenders,

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Speaker 7: you lost a lot of money on your hedge, but

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Speaker 7: you make a lot of money on the assets that

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Speaker 7: you have.

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Speaker 1: By the way, the last auction or the auction last

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Speaker 1: week that you know, kicked things off before Powell came

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Speaker 1: out and confirmed what looked like a more hawkish bias,

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Speaker 1: was that actually affected by the ICBC hack. That's what

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Speaker 1: the early reports from the ft said. But I just

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Speaker 1: don't get it.

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Speaker 7: I don't know if there's a connection here. I do

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Speaker 7: know that some very smart people whom might have a

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Speaker 7: lot of respect for that run banks, are extremely concerned

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Speaker 7: about that hack, even though it was small, because it

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Speaker 7: implies that they're not sufficiently vigilant in terms of operational risk.

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Speaker 7: At the same time as you saw, I worry that

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Speaker 7: Secretary Yellen was essentially backed off and forced to downsize

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Speaker 7: the long bond auction because the dealers told her it

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Speaker 7: wasn't going to get done. And you still had a

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Speaker 7: spike in rains, Matt, So that worries me. It reminds

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Speaker 7: me of when I was a little younger and we

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Speaker 7: used to worry about the Treasury auctions. We haven't had

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Speaker 7: that worry at twenty years.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but now it moves market, you know. Now you

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Speaker 1: know we had we had a bad auction and three

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Speaker 1: minutes later you saw the tail and the S and

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Speaker 1: P five hundred sold off. It makes you think maybe

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Speaker 1: yelling and whatever you call that Treasury committee had a

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Speaker 1: point when they decided not to sell you know, one

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Speaker 1: hundred year debt at zero interest.

437
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,360
Speaker 7: No, they should have done it. Come on, you're a

438
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,439
Speaker 7: fund manager. It doesn't matter if you work with the

439
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 7: Treasury or know. You obviously should have done that trade.

440
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 7: You should have funded infrastructure when that trade was available.

441
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 7: We didn't do it. We just spent the money. So

442
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 7: I think there's always second guessing. But today I think

443
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 7: Treasury is facing a lot of tactical challenges and that's

444
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 7: just the reality, and it will affect stocks, no question.

445
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,479
Speaker 7: The banks are down. Are they cheap? I don't know?

446
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 7: That depends which bank, right exactly?

447
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 2: Hey, Chris, what we're not hearing about too much? Recently

448
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 2: is the commercial real estate exposure for a lot of

449
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,360
Speaker 2: these banks. What's the latest on that.

450
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 7: Continues. You're not going to see most of it because

451
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 7: it's private. This occurs behind closed doors with lawyers and

452
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 7: these are professionals on both sides. But if you look

453
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 7: at some of the specialty press, like The Real Deal,

454
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 7: which I love, by the way, there's a lot of

455
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 7: stuff going on. There are assets that are being marked down.

456
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 7: You're going to see a whole sale markedown of rent

457
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 7: stabilized assets in New York after the FDIC is done

458
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 7: selling the signature bank properties to rent controlled properties that

459
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 7: frankly are unsaleable. But they're going to try. My fear,

460
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 7: and I think a lot of people's fear, is that

461
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 7: they're going to hit a very low bid to get out,

462
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 7: because ultimately the receivership of the FDIC is not a

463
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 7: long term investor. They're there to turn the assets in

464
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:52,360
Speaker 7: the cash and try and minimize loss. That's their mandate.

465
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 7: So you know, they have retained a majority stake in

466
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 7: a lot of these buildings, Matt because nobody wants them

467
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 7: given the political environment in New York. Well, I have

468
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 7: been reading that in nineteen BNT control legislation has to

469
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 7: be repealed or we're going to destroy rental assets in

470
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 7: New York as an asset class because the banks can't

471
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 7: fund them. They can't, I mean, and.

472
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: Residential doesn't even look nearly as bad as office, right,

473
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 1: because you mentioned the real deal, and I've been reading

474
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: well that website lately, realdeal dot com, because we had

475
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: this guy in Igle Namdar, who I think maybe a

476
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 1: I think it's fair to call him a billionaire, certainly

477
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: when we last vetted his holdings he was in twenty

478
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 1: twenty one. It's like he and a couple of other

479
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 1: guys with whom he works are the only people buying

480
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: office in New York. No one else is trying to

481
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: catch these falling knives.

482
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 7: Well, you have to have a view of the real

483
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 7: estate value that is to say, land, and then the

484
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 7: asset that's on it, and whether or not it can

485
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 7: be utilized in what's going to be a different business case.

486
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 7: You know, I think a lot of people see New

487
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 7: York going to a largely residential configuration. But I don't

488
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 7: think you can pay for this city unless you have

489
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 7: business as a partner. And that's what's going to change.

490
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 7: We have got to stop attacking the business community because

491
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 7: they'll leak, and they did. But they went down south

492
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,120
Speaker 7: and built a lot of new buildings, and now we're

493
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 7: overbuilt in Texas, We're overbuilt in some other markets. No, seriously,

494
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,919
Speaker 7: the herd left. They were told to leave, you know,

495
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 7: by the Democrats of New York, and they did because

496
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 7: the capital is mobile Miami, Matt you'd spent time down there, insane,

497
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 7: and then look at around the region, look at the

498
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 7: Canal Zone, look at some other cities in the region.

499
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,880
Speaker 7: They're all getting buried in investment in commercial real estate,

500
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 7: residential real estate.

501
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: I hope what happens in Miami stays in Miami, because

502
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 1: I have spent some time.

503
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 7: Look at thee look at the Canal Zone, and Panama

504
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 7: looks just like Miami, big empty buildings.

505
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, Hey, you write a lot for the Institutional

506
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: Risk Analyst, and one of your posts recently big whate

507
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 1: rising debt service and following liquidity. You're writing about, you know,

508
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 1: the mortgage and the lending business. But I'm thinking about

509
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,199
Speaker 1: the US and I wonder what is your take on

510
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: the fact that we're going to have nine hundred billion

511
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: dollars in interest rate servicing costs. Next year does that change?

512
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 1: Do you see rates coming down and that gets better

513
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 1: or is that something that Washington can fix somehow.

514
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 7: Well, Washington has got to start reducing the deficit. I

515
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 7: know that's not fashionable, but from a tactical perspective, just

516
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 7: looking at the cash balances the Treasury has to maintain

517
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 7: in order to move payments around, it's a problem. You know.

518
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 7: The Fed collateralized is all of that, Matthew. They go

519
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 7: out and buy bonds to collateralize the Treasury General account

520
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 7: and that's a market moving event too. So the size

521
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 7: of the Treasury is becoming an issue in the markets.

522
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 7: We're seeing crowding out come back as a novel concept

523
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 7: right in economic thinking because it's so obvious. You know,

524
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 7: luckily housing is down. The imagine if we were trying

525
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 7: to finance four or five trillion dollars this year in

526
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 7: housing at the same time Treasury was out raising all

527
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 7: this money. We're going to do a trillion five this year?

528
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 7: Nothing all right?

529
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 1: So Chris, I got to wrap you up there, unfortunately

530
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: for time. But Chris Whalen love to get your insight

531
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: on the industry. He is the institutional risk analyst and

532
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: also chairman of Whalen Global Advisors.

533
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 5: You're listening to the tape can to our live program

534
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 5: Bloomberg Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio,

535
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 5: the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg

536
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 5: Business App. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa

537
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 5: from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play

538
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 5: Bloomberg eleven thirty.

539
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 2: The stock market likes biotech. Stock market likes AI. So

540
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 2: how about an AI inspired biotech company? And how about

541
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 2: an AI inspired biotech company that has a new shareholder

542
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 2: disclosed just today? That would be Kathy Woods Arc Funds.

543
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 2: You put it all together, Matt stocks up sixteen percent.

544
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,479
Speaker 2: We're talking about Recursion Pharmaceuticals as symbol as our x

545
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 2: r X, and we just happened to have Tina Marriott

546
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 2: Larson and president and CEO COO of Recursion Pharmaceuticals with us.

547
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 2: So that's that's a coincidence to serendipity. I guess I

548
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 2: don't know which you want.

549
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 4: That's all it.

550
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: Face ripping rally, face ripping rally.

551
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 2: Tina, what what have you learned about your new shareholder today?

552
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 8: Well, thank you. I don't usually use the term face ripping,

553
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 8: but I appreciate the introduction. Great to be here, Paul

554
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 8: and that, and yeah, like like all of our shareholders,

555
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 8: it's great to have these strategic, long term thinking shareholders

556
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 8: that really share our vision for the future of where

557
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 8: the biotech industry going, the tech industry is going, and

558
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 8: really the opportunity to use technology to create the next

559
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 8: generation of biopharmaceutical company.

560
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: So what kind of strides are you making Because you know,

561
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: it's great to have a very famous and you know,

562
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: followed shareholder. It's great to see your stock takeoff in

563
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: double digit gains. But at the end of the day,

564
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: I imagine your ultimate goal is I guess curing cancer, right.

565
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: I see that you do a ton of oncology work

566
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: in partnership with some of the biggest names in the business.

567
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: So how is adding AI to the mix getting you

568
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: closer to that goal?

569
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 8: Yeah? Absolutely, cancer is a big focus for us, and

570
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 8: as you mentioned our partnerships, we recently announced an expansion

571
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 8: of our long term partnership with Buyer. We're going to

572
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 8: be working on up the seven new oncology programs with them,

573
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 8: applying the latest and greatest version of our technology platform.

574
00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 8: In October, we announced the first milestone and option from

575
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 8: our partnership with Rosian Genetech, which was in oncology as well,

576
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 8: and so we're definitely focused on oncology as well as

577
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 8: other areas like neuroscience and once again with our partners

578
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 8: at Genetech Roach. So we're really seeing great progress in

579
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 8: implying these technology platforms, this emerging field of tech bio

580
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 8: to really improve the outcomes in the way that we

581
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 8: do R and D research to discover, well, what are.

582
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: The most important breakthroughs that you've made, or what are

583
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: some breakthroughs that you're hoping to make? You know, this

584
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: is what these are the moon shots that Wall Street

585
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: bets on. What's yours?

586
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 8: Yeah, absolutely, and so we are industrializing drug discovery. So

587
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 8: if you think about the way that many small biotech

588
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 8: companies maybe they're looking for one or two drugs and

589
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 8: very targeted areas of biology or very specific areas, say

590
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 8: of cancer, we're actually looking across human biology. Our mission

591
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 8: is decoding human biology to radically improve lives, and we're

592
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 8: using the technology to do that. And so you see

593
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 8: that we have bets in neuroscience. We have bets and oncology.

594
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 8: We have our own internal pipeline of molecules in things

595
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 8: like rare disease and oncology, and we're actually going to

596
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 8: see our first readouts. We're anticipating those next year for

597
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,719
Speaker 8: our internally developed drugs. But ultimately the goal is to

598
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 8: scale and industrialize so that you know, in the same

599
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,719
Speaker 8: way that other industries have been disrupted by technology, so

600
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 8: that we can bring better patients, better medicines to patients,

601
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 8: faster and more cost effectively.

602
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 2: So specifically for your company, Recursion Pharmaceuticals, what do you

603
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 2: guys do, What is your technology? How do you bring

604
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 2: AI or just technology brolding tofine to the you know,

605
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 2: the pharmaceutical in the biotech space.

606
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 8: Yeah, it really starts with data sets. And so I

607
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 8: like to use the Google Maps analogy quite a bit.

608
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 8: I'm old enough to have navigated around say Washington, DC

609
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 8: using a Rand McNally atlas, and that was pretty hard

610
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 8: and you know, at night after you'd like land there

611
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 8: on a plane and so and what Google Maps revolutionized

612
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 8: that part of our lives by both creating great data

613
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 8: sets of the Earth of cities of maps and also

614
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 8: creating the algorithms and computational technology in order to analyze

615
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 8: those large data sets. So the analogy to what Recursion

616
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 8: is doing is that we are creating data sets. We

617
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 8: have twenty petabytes of data, twenty five petabytes of data. Actually,

618
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 8: it grows so fast that we have actually grown in

619
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 8: house here in our laboratories. To the right of me,

620
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 8: there's a whole bunch of robots doing science right now,

621
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 8: creating these in house data sets, modeling the human body

622
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 8: right here in the laboratory. And then we add data

623
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 8: sets like we recently announced that we have developed a

624
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 8: partnership with Tempest, and they have real world data, so

625
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 8: we have preferred access now to over twenty petabytes of

626
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 8: data from one hundred thousand actual cancer patients and the

627
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 8: outcomes of those patients have had out in the real world.

628
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 8: So we're constructing these very large data sets and then

629
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 8: using tools like machine learning and artificial intelligence in order

630
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 8: to use that model of biology to find new medicines

631
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 8: for diseases that today are underserved or unserved and have

632
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 8: been intractable previously for the industry to find pures.

633
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 1: It's hard for a normal person to know what a

634
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: petabyte is, even even if you Google it, apparently it's

635
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: a thousand terabytes.

636
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 5: I don't.

637
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 8: One of the one of the fun analogies we have

638
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 8: used here is that every high definition film ever made

639
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 8: is a few petabytes, and so we have far, far,

640
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 8: far more data than every if you had you streamed

641
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,359
Speaker 8: every movie ever made in high definition. So these are very,

642
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:41,479
Speaker 8: very large.

643
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 1: Nice Paul is actually on a mission to do that

644
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: right now, exactly streaming every single HD movie on the

645
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 1: New Jersey Transit transit.

646
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 2: So, Tina, I mean like.

647
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 8: A thousand years, Paul, I know, I know, I had

648
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 8: a long commute.

649
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 2: So Tina, talk to us. Is the biotech industry is

650
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 2: it open to this type of technology coming into what

651
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 2: had been historically, you know, just very I don't know,

652
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 2: science y stuff.

653
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think the openness is growing. You know my background,

654
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 8: I spent decades ago at the revolution of biotechnology. I

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00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 8: was at the Genetech, the company that led the biotech

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00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 8: revolution of our industry when we hit an R and D.

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00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 8: They're one of our biggest partners now and now being

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00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 8: at this cutting this leading of the tech bio revolution,

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00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 8: and even a few years ago when I joined our

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00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 8: co founder and CEO, Chris Gibson Here at Recursion, there

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00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 8: was still a lot of skepticism about how AI and

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00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 8: technology was going to change things. I think now that

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00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 8: artificial intelligence has become so much more broadly impacting our lives,

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00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,879
Speaker 8: you know, across industries now that that kind of skepticism

665
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 8: really has switched to curiosity. And I think now you

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00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 8: see large pharmaceutical companies really trying to craft their AI strategies,

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00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 8: getting really curious about how this is going to revolutionize

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00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 8: the companies. So I think we've kind of transited most

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Speaker 8: of that skepticism as to if technology and computational technology

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00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 8: revolutionizes the industry. And now the question is how.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Tina, really fascinating discussion. I really appreciated Tina. Marriotte Larsen,

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Speaker 2: President and Coe of Recursion Pharmaceuticals. Ticker symbols our ex ore, ex'es,

673
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 2: and Nastak traded stock. And it was just disclosed today

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00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 2: that Kathy Woods our funds have acquired a stake in

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00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 2: this company.

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00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: But our producer, Eric Molo booked Tina for the show

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00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: before four. We knew that, and in fact he booked

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00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: Chris the founder back in July. Wow, so he essentially

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00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 1: beat Kathy Wood to it.

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00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 2: I know now that d he buy any stocked did

681
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 2: mister mollel. I'm guessing the fact that he's still back

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00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 2: there behind the other side of the glass, that the

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00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 2: answer is no. But we appreciate the booking.

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00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 1: Nevertheless, thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You

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00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 1: can subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts or

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00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: whatever podcast platform you refer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on

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Speaker 1: Twitter at Matt Miller nineteen seventy three.

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00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 4: And I'm Faul Sweeney.

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Speaker 2: I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you

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00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 2: can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio