Speaker 1: I'm Kim Azzarelli and you're listening to Seneca's conversations on
Speaker 1: power and purpose. I am so delighted to partner with
Speaker 1: Makers on the special six part series called Keep Going.
Speaker 1: In this series, we listen to incredible conversations from Makers
Speaker 1: Conferences with a special focus on d e I. The
Speaker 1: goal is to use these podcasts as a jumping off
Speaker 1: point for conversations about d e I in your own organization.
Speaker 1: I want to give a special thanks to the Makers
Speaker 1: Conference sponsors, PNG, Price Waterhouse Coopers an official wellness sponsor
Speaker 1: Lulu Lemon. Now. We launched the Seneca Women podcast Network
Speaker 1: about a year ago with founding partner PNG and I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio with the goal of amplifying the voices of
Speaker 1: women around the world. You probably know that podcasting is
Speaker 1: a fast growing industry, with over fifty cent of podcast
Speaker 1: audience being women. But what you may not know is
Speaker 1: that only twenty of top podcasts are hosted by women.
Speaker 1: We want to change that, so we are launching dozens
Speaker 1: of women focused and women led podcasts. So if you
Speaker 1: have a show where you want to collaborate on a show,
Speaker 1: reach out to us at info at Seneca Women dot com.
Speaker 1: Now it gives me great pleasure to introduce our guest
Speaker 1: host for the Keep Going series, Amina Brown. Amina is
Speaker 1: a spoken word poet, author and host of the podcast
Speaker 1: Her with Amina Brown on the Seneca Women Podcast Network. Amina,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. Thank you. Kim so
Speaker 1: excited to be the guest host of this special series
Speaker 1: and collaboration with Makers. And I have special feelings about
Speaker 1: Makers because it was one of the events that I
Speaker 1: got a chance to attend in the before times in
Speaker 1: the beginning of it was so inspiring to be in
Speaker 1: that space and that is the place where Kim and
Speaker 1: I met. And now under Senecal Woman Podcast Network, we
Speaker 1: are making podcasts like these, so that's really exciting. And
Speaker 1: today we're going to listen to an excerpt from an
Speaker 1: incredible conversation between Love and Gi E. Jones, New York
Speaker 1: Times best selling author, speaker and podcast host, and Bozama St. John,
Speaker 1: Chief marketing Officer at Netflix. This conversation took place at
Speaker 1: the Maker's Conference back in February, and before we get
Speaker 1: into the conversation, I have to tell you my first
Speaker 1: time listening to Bozama and Love you talk about this,
Speaker 1: it just reminded me of all the times that I've
Speaker 1: entered certain workplaces, certain meetings, certain business opportunities and felt
Speaker 1: that feeling that maybe I needed to put on some
Speaker 1: type of armor or try to be anything but myself
Speaker 1: to to fit in or do whatever it seemed necessary
Speaker 1: to do to be in that environment. And in this conversation,
Speaker 1: I hope that you'll be encouraged as I was, to
Speaker 1: remember to be your full self, to bring who you
Speaker 1: are to the table. Right and following this conversation sation,
Speaker 1: I'll be joined by Daisy oj Domingus, chief people Officer
Speaker 1: at Vice Media Group, and Daisy and I are going
Speaker 1: to talk about what we just heard and she'll give
Speaker 1: us her takeaways and how we can bring back these
Speaker 1: lessons from Lovey and Bosama into our own workplaces. So
Speaker 1: let's take a listen to what Bosama and Lovey have
Speaker 1: to say. What is the armor that you put on
Speaker 1: to face the date? The scary day? I am dressed
Speaker 1: to kill? Okay, Okay, I am going to say the
Speaker 1: things that sometimes are scary to say in rooms in
Speaker 1: which sometimes it feels like my voice is not supposed
Speaker 1: to be as loud as it is, and I do
Speaker 1: that in my way that I appear, and I do
Speaker 1: that in my spirit because that's what allows this is
Speaker 1: what allows for me to fully show through, you know,
Speaker 1: for me to fully be in. And by the way,
Speaker 1: I'm not afraid of my difference. I'm not afraid of
Speaker 1: looking different. And so one it gives me the freedom
Speaker 1: to even lean into that, to get even further into that.
Speaker 1: Because said, I'm not gonna be a white man. It's
Speaker 1: not happening. This is not happening. You know. I'm I'm
Speaker 1: tired of the shrinking. I'm not shrinking. I don't want
Speaker 1: any to shrink in these spaces. You know. It's like, listen,
Speaker 1: if if we're not supposed to be here and I
Speaker 1: am here, oh, then you're gonna see all of this.
Speaker 1: It was like, yes, I will wear the red head
Speaker 1: to toe with my big afro, and I will show
Speaker 1: up a few minutes later that you're forced to look
Speaker 1: at me as I walk in, and you have to
Speaker 1: deal because I'm excellent at what I do. The red
Speaker 1: outfit is backed up by some red hot heat that
Speaker 1: I have in my brain and on the page. So
Speaker 1: let's not get that twisted. It's not just out here
Speaker 1: shining for no reason. There's also a lot of steel
Speaker 1: behind the shine. I have learned over time that it's
Speaker 1: not just about the look, right. I learned that very
Speaker 1: early on, because what happened to me, and what happens
Speaker 1: to a lot of women who are in the corporate spaces,
Speaker 1: is that you are told to look a certain way, right,
Speaker 1: and maybe even not directly, but certainly indirectly. You know
Speaker 1: what a look is, you know what you're supposed to
Speaker 1: be when you're in these spaces. And I recognize that
Speaker 1: being that superficially did not help me in those places.
Speaker 1: You know, it just it didn't. It didn't matter, like
Speaker 1: my ideas were the same, the inside of the same.
Speaker 1: The ex was trying to fit into and trying to
Speaker 1: assimilate into a culture that was not mine, and the
Speaker 1: image that was built was not did not, was not
Speaker 1: created with me in mind, and so I had to
Speaker 1: focus on what was inside. And I know that sounds
Speaker 1: like duh, well, of course you had to focus on
Speaker 1: what's inside, But no, that's not what happens to us.
Speaker 1: We're so distracted by trying to fit in superficially right,
Speaker 1: by trying to split down the hair so it doesn't
Speaker 1: stick up, trying to sit on our hands so that
Speaker 1: we don't gesture, trying to control of our voice so
Speaker 1: that it doesn't go too high and you sound angry
Speaker 1: or you sound too assionate. We do that so much
Speaker 1: that it is to acts us from actually the real work,
Speaker 1: because how can you do both? You know, how how
Speaker 1: can you be expected to be excellent if you're concentrating
Speaker 1: on all these other things. That's where your energy goes.
Speaker 1: And so as soon as I let go of that stuff,
Speaker 1: as soon as I let go of those expectations and
Speaker 1: trying to be this thing that other people wanted to be,
Speaker 1: I was actually able to then let the work shine,
Speaker 1: you know, put all the energy into my work so
Speaker 1: that I could actually come up with the best goddamn ideas. Oh,
Speaker 1: I am already riveted. What a great conversation, and I
Speaker 1: am delighted to be joined by Daisy of J Dominguez.
Speaker 1: Daisy is Chief people Officer at Vice Media Group, and
Speaker 1: she has a book coming out next year called Inclusion Revolution,
Speaker 1: based on a popular TEDx talk she gave in Welcome Daisy,
Speaker 1: Thank you, Amina. I'm so glad to be here. So Daisy,
Speaker 1: can you start off and give me we're hearing in
Speaker 1: this conversation between Lovey and Bozima, this idea of how
Speaker 1: we can bring our full authentic self into the workplace.
Speaker 1: Can you talk about how did you even begin that
Speaker 1: process and what does that look like now at this
Speaker 1: point in your career. You know, well, let's be clear,
Speaker 1: for years we've been asking people to bring their authentic
Speaker 1: selves to the workplace, but we don't talk about the
Speaker 1: risks and the dangers of doing that for so many
Speaker 1: of us, and the early part of my career, it
Speaker 1: wasn't lost on me that people that looked like me
Speaker 1: were often sidelined, marginalized, and drawn out to invisibility. You
Speaker 1: quickly learned that you have to spend your energy, as
Speaker 1: as Bosama said, you're trying to fit in into white
Speaker 1: professional norms, and that can be suffocating. You know, for me,
Speaker 1: that meant ensuring that there was not a trace of
Speaker 1: an accent to be heard or anything that could be
Speaker 1: called out in my appearance that seemed too ethnic or
Speaker 1: overly sexualized. And it took me time to stop doubting
Speaker 1: my abilities and not feel like an impostor in organizations
Speaker 1: that are not designed for people like me. And you know,
Speaker 1: as I heard Bosama speak. You know, I remember that
Speaker 1: along the way, there were many times that I gave
Speaker 1: up small parts of myself. I let my courage, strength,
Speaker 1: I let my voice diminish. Even as I was fighting
Speaker 1: to bring more seats to the table, I had to
Speaker 1: desperately fight to earn and keep my own while watching
Speaker 1: others face far less hurdles. And so that that authenticity,
Speaker 1: that courage that I showed today, that's been slowly revealing
Speaker 1: to me over the years. And it's been about no
Speaker 1: longer letting toxic managers set up roadblocks for my success
Speaker 1: or having peers questioned my value. It's about building deep
Speaker 1: and lasting friendships and communities in our workplaces of support
Speaker 1: and of of of encouragement. And it's also been about
Speaker 1: recognizing that my vulnerability doesn't diminish my capacity to lead,
Speaker 1: it enhances it. And that's what I bring to the workplace.
Speaker 1: Come on, Daisy, I just I appreciate you bringing nuance
Speaker 1: into that. This is a process, because sometimes we enter
Speaker 1: the workplace and we feel like I have to have
Speaker 1: all of this together now in my in my first moment,
Speaker 1: in my first meeting, or I'm starting this new job.
Speaker 1: I gotta have it all together and it's a process.
Speaker 1: It's a process for everybody. I think sometimes we see
Speaker 1: other people in our workplaces and think, man, look at
Speaker 1: that person, how confident they seem when they walk in
Speaker 1: a room and you're not knowing behind the scenes, that's
Speaker 1: been a process in their professional experience. I really appreciate
Speaker 1: you adding that today. Also, can you give us some
Speaker 1: takeaways here, because when we are talking about things like
Speaker 1: what it really looks like to do the work of inclusion,
Speaker 1: to do the work of diversity, to do the work
Speaker 1: of equity right in some of our workplaces, we're starting
Speaker 1: to enter an ethereal conversation. We're starting to have sort
Speaker 1: of a pie in the sky kind of thoughts about this,
Speaker 1: but we actually need practical steps of what do we
Speaker 1: do based on what we're hearing? Lovy and those of
Speaker 1: my bring into this conversation. Tell me what are your
Speaker 1: takeaways you would give for people, for people who are
Speaker 1: leading in their workplaces. What's the stuff to do? Now?
Speaker 1: There's so much stuff, but I like to frame it
Speaker 1: in threes um and I think every manager, every leader,
Speaker 1: needs to do three things to nurture workplaces that work
Speaker 1: for everyone. First, reflect and listen. Everyone wants to immediately
Speaker 1: jump to solutions, but you can't solve a complex structural
Speaker 1: problem that you don't understand. So take responsibility for your
Speaker 1: own learning by asking better questions and really listening. What
Speaker 1: are the biases that hold back women, non binary people,
Speaker 1: by POC, l g B, t Q, and other coworkers
Speaker 1: from marginalized communities at my workplace? What am I overlooking
Speaker 1: or tolerating that goes on said for for years and years?
Speaker 1: What are the assumptions, habits, or practices that hold me
Speaker 1: back from creating an inclusive and equitable work environment. Ask
Speaker 1: yourself that question and take time to really reflect and listen. Now,
Speaker 1: the second is show that you care. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of pressure for leaders to have all the answers, and
Speaker 1: the truth is you do. You do not have to
Speaker 1: know all the answers, but you have to show evidence
Speaker 1: of care, that you really care and that you're willing
Speaker 1: to put the effort. Sometimes people just want to acknowledgement
Speaker 1: that you see them the difficulty they're facing, and that
Speaker 1: you care about them. That means engaging and navigating difficult conversations,
Speaker 1: not shrinking away from them, not just simply calling yourself
Speaker 1: an ally, but doing the work of an ally and
Speaker 1: that takes us to number three, which is to own
Speaker 1: this work, create and support fresh organizational practices, programs, and policies. Fresh,
Speaker 1: not the old school way of it, but the new
Speaker 1: world of work. This. This means looking at processes that
Speaker 1: do not disadvantage any race or gender group before they
Speaker 1: even get a chance to succeed. Take a close look
Speaker 1: at everything, what's there, what meets updating, what are you missing?
Speaker 1: And then address the weaknesses and striped bias and discriminatory
Speaker 1: practices that are either formal or informal out of your hiring,
Speaker 1: your compensation, your performance, and your advancement practices. I mean,
Speaker 1: I engage in this work because I believe change is possible,
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to make work safe, equitable, and inclusive
Speaker 1: for all people because it is possible, worthy and important.
Speaker 1: And in order to do that, I'm counting on you
Speaker 1: and everyone who's watching this to help realize this vision,
Speaker 1: because it's up to all of us to drive this
Speaker 1: change forward. Yeah, oh Daisy, thank you for sharing with us.
Speaker 1: First of all, for sharing with us some challenges that
Speaker 1: we all can do in our workplaces that we we have.
Speaker 1: We all have some places we can step up to
Speaker 1: this work. And thank you for bringing your expertise to
Speaker 1: this table today, Daisy. Thank you so much, so great
Speaker 1: my pleasure. Thank you Amina, Daisy. Yes, every time I
Speaker 1: hear Daisy, I not only want to listen to what
Speaker 1: she says, but I also want to take action and
Speaker 1: do something about the things that she says. And speaking
Speaker 1: of do something, let's ask ourselves three questions. I want
Speaker 1: you to think about this. What are the habits or
Speaker 1: practices that are currently holding you back from creating a
Speaker 1: more inclusive work environment. What are the ways that you
Speaker 1: can bring care and thoughtfulness to your leadership, to your
Speaker 1: ally ship, to how you do the work that diversity,
Speaker 1: equity and inclusion requires in your own workplace? And how
Speaker 1: can you create fresh policies, fresh programs, fresh practices that
Speaker 1: would better support your team and support the war of diversity,
Speaker 1: equity and inclusion on your team? And think this is
Speaker 1: just a little of west to come. What an incredible conversation.
Speaker 1: I hope you found it as valuable as I did,
Speaker 1: so tune in next Wednesday for another amazing maker's conversation
Speaker 1: about how we can all contribute to making progress in
Speaker 1: the workplace. You're listening to Seneca's conversations on power and purpose.
Speaker 1: Brought to you by the Seneca Women Podcast Network and
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio with support from founding partner PNG. Listen
Speaker 1: to Seneca's conversations on power and purpose on the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: For more information on Seneca Women, follow us on social
Speaker 1: media or visit our website at Seneca Women dot com