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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric and this is next question.

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Speaker 1: Oh my. Here we are a little more than a

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Speaker 1: week after the election by the time this podcast drops,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know about you all, but I'm still

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Speaker 1: kind of shaking my head, wondering how this happened, what

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Speaker 1: went wrong or right for depending on where you stand,

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Speaker 1: what the Democratic Party did wrong? What did the Harris

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Speaker 1: campaign perhaps do wrong. I've read so many analysis pieces

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Speaker 1: I can't even tell you from all different publications. Probably

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Speaker 1: some of my followers will think, well, Katie, you're reading

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Speaker 1: publications that confirm your pre existing beliefs, and if that's true,

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Speaker 1: guilty is charged. I probably have been reading those publications.

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Speaker 1: But I felt like one of the best people we

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Speaker 1: could talk to about all of this is my friend Jensaki.

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Speaker 1: Jen of course, served under two administrations, the Obama administration

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Speaker 1: the Biden administration, and now she is crushing it over

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Speaker 1: at MSNBC. I think she's a really welcome and much

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Speaker 1: needed voice. Although we can talk about the media as

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Speaker 1: well with Jen. Jen, gosh, Hi so much to discuss.

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Speaker 2: How are you?

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Speaker 3: I mean, Hi, I have spent the last several days

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Speaker 3: just as ever. Probably anyone listening has really thinking about

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Speaker 3: all of the things you just said, reading so many pieces.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of takes out there. A lot of

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Speaker 3: them are bad, but some of them are interesting. And

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Speaker 3: what I've tried to really force myself to do in

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Speaker 3: this moment is be humble about what I misread and

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Speaker 3: what I didn't see, what many of us misread. I'm

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Speaker 3: not the only one, and what it tells us about

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Speaker 3: a huge disconnect out there from the party with There

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Speaker 3: are a lot of reasons.

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Speaker 2: Why yes, but I have so many.

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Speaker 3: I've tried to be very introspective about that and not blame.

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Speaker 3: I think there's also a lot of blame gaming going

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Speaker 3: on out there, which I don't think. That doesn't mean

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Speaker 3: you can't be critical. It just means people who say

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Speaker 3: this is the fault of all white women, it's like

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Speaker 3: we're fault of Latinos. It's like, as you know, Katie,

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Speaker 3: that's not how democracy works. I mean, people decide who

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Speaker 3: they want to vote for based on who they think

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Speaker 3: is going to best represent their views. You either move

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Speaker 3: people to do that or you don't. So that's what

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Speaker 3: I've spent the last couple of days. For me, it's

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Speaker 3: like digging into it and studying and being in the

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Speaker 3: research phase, and that's where I feel like I am

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Speaker 3: in this moment.

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Speaker 1: I also think it's going to be helpful, Jen. I

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Speaker 1: think when you started at MSNBC, correct me if I'm wrong.

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Speaker 1: I have this bonehead idea. I was like, Jen, why

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Speaker 1: don't you do your show every weekend from a different location.

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Speaker 1: Why don't you go to the middle of the country.

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Speaker 1: Why don't you do the show from Dayton, Ohio. Why

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Speaker 1: don't you do the show from Houston, Texas. Why don't

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Speaker 1: you better references what the American people are thinking and feeling. Now,

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Speaker 1: of course I'm patting myself on the back for that idea,

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Speaker 1: but honestly, I think you're right. I think that the

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Speaker 1: media is occupied by coastal elites who pretty much all

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Speaker 1: went to pretty good schools. They don't represent a real

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Speaker 1: diversity of backgrounds socioeconomically anyway. And that's not true. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm making a generalization here, but for the most part,

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Speaker 1: and I just feel like they're also not reporting out

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Speaker 1: in the field as much. I mean, one of the

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Speaker 1: things that bugs me when I watch cable news, and

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Speaker 1: by the way, we're talking about very small percentage of

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Speaker 1: the population that's actually watching cable news these days. Is

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Speaker 1: I never see them talking to real people. They're always

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Speaker 1: sitting at a desk, you know, doing a lot of

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Speaker 1: naval gazing. I mean that's not to say I don't

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Speaker 1: really appreciate hearing what these very smart people have to say.

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Speaker 1: You know, I love your show, Jen, I love hearing

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Speaker 1: you talk to people. But it does feel like it

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Speaker 1: is just not touching and not talking and not sharing

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Speaker 1: stories of people's lives. And it's just gotten very super

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Speaker 1: high level, and nobody seems to be really rolling up

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Speaker 1: their sleeves and getting out there in the country and

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Speaker 1: talking to voters.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. There's a lot of reasons for that too, as

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Speaker 3: you know. I mean, one thing that's expensive. It's expensive.

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Speaker 3: That's one of them. And I remember us talking about that.

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Speaker 3: And I have tried to go out as much as

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Speaker 3: I can and actually spent I mean, I was in

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Speaker 3: Michigan a week before the election. I've gone out on

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Speaker 3: the road with candidates. You do have actual I was

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Speaker 3: in New Hampshire for days around the Republican primary, and

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Speaker 3: to your point, you do have actual, real conversations that

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Speaker 3: make you question and think. One of the things I've

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Speaker 3: thought a lot about And I can only speak for

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Speaker 3: myself and how I approach things moving forward is that

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Speaker 3: you get into an easy cycle of what is your

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Speaker 3: reaction to this crazy thing Trump said? What is your

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Speaker 3: reaction to that crazy thing? Trump said? And as you know,

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Speaker 3: and I'd be interested in your thought on this, for

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Speaker 3: given your long history, he is still a story. He's

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Speaker 3: the president elect of the United States. People can't not

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Speaker 3: cover him or not talk about him. But I do

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Speaker 3: wonder if the react to the crazy thing he said

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Speaker 3: is the most informative and right way that we should

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Speaker 3: be approaching things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a lot of people are looking at that,

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Speaker 1: did journalists And by the way, you know, we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about this. Media is so fragmented. I always say mass

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Speaker 1: media is now at oxymoron. So when you even say

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Speaker 1: the media, who and what are you talking about? But

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Speaker 1: I see your point. I think often they missed the

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Speaker 1: forest for the trees, because I think the focus was

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Speaker 1: probably a little bit more on the candidate and his

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Speaker 1: outrageous behavior instead of the fans and the people who

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Speaker 1: were gravitating and attracted to him and why. But wouldn't

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Speaker 1: it have been interesting if you had taken a Trump's

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Speaker 1: support order a week and really gone home with that

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Speaker 1: person and talked about their lives and talked about, you know,

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Speaker 1: what they were worried about, and talked about how they

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Speaker 1: were struggling to raise their kids, or talked about all

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Speaker 1: kinds of things. You know, this feeling of global insecurity

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Speaker 1: and pain for all these wars when we have so

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Speaker 1: many problems at home. I think it might have been

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Speaker 1: really illuminating.

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Speaker 2: Jin Well.

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Speaker 3: I also think certainly longtime Trump supporters are part of it, absolutely,

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Speaker 3: But I also think for the Democratic Party and also

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Speaker 3: for the media in a different way, And I want

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Speaker 3: to come back to that in a second. It's people

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Speaker 3: who left the Democratic Party who had long supported Democratic

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Speaker 3: candidates or Democratic policies and decided they weren't being heard anymore.

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Speaker 3: And those people maybe they stayed home. Maybe they voted

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Speaker 3: for Trump, but maybe they didn't vote at all. And

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Speaker 3: there's a group that I feel like wasn't heard or

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Speaker 3: listened to either.

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Speaker 1: But that's not a new phenomenon, Jen, I mean, we've

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Speaker 1: seen sort of this, this shift by blue collar, working

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Speaker 1: class folks in this country moving towards the Republican Party.

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Speaker 1: And maybe it would have looked hollow. But I have

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Speaker 1: a friend and we talk about this stuff all the time.

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Speaker 1: We were like, why isn't Kamala Harris going out and

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Speaker 1: talking to more factory workers. Why isn't she like putting

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Speaker 1: on a hard hat and really talking to people everyday

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Speaker 1: people a little bit more. I think she could have

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Speaker 1: done that throughout the administration. But what were we talking about.

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Speaker 3: I have so many things on my headshet and I

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Speaker 3: don't want to get off topic of What we were

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Speaker 3: talking about is like having the conversations with the people

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Speaker 3: who really I mean. The other thing I think and

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Speaker 3: I don't want to get off the topic of working

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Speaker 3: class voters because I think that is a big Yes,

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Speaker 3: you're right, the trends have been moving. In the trends

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Speaker 3: they've been moving. I do think this was a very

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Speaker 3: startling outcome in terms of the big shifts among many

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Speaker 3: different demographic groups, Latino men, young people. I mean, it

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Speaker 3: was not just one, it was not just white working

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Speaker 3: class voters. It was beyond right, which I think is

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Speaker 3: something that's important to be part of the conversation. The

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Speaker 3: other thing I think that's important to reflect on is

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Speaker 3: just a misread of abortion politics and what I mean

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Speaker 3: by that is, the majority of the country does believe

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Speaker 3: in a woman's right to make choices about her own healthcare,

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Speaker 3: bodily autonomy, whatever you want to call it, abortion whatever.

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Speaker 3: Seven states voted to protect abortion rights and still voted

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Speaker 3: for Trump, right, and there was this assumption. I'm not

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Speaker 3: the only one, but I'm just reflecting on my own

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Speaker 3: assumptions that were inaccurate, that both people who voted to

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Speaker 3: protect it or felt strongly about it would recognize that

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Speaker 3: he was a person who opposed it, and that's not.

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Speaker 2: True, and why didn't they?

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Speaker 3: I am also a believer. We don't know all the

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Speaker 3: answers yet. So this is how I've thought about it

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Speaker 3: to day. How I've thought about it to date is

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Speaker 3: either there is a belief that he wasn't a believer

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Speaker 3: in abortion band and he sort of said different iterations

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Speaker 3: of that over the course of time, despite his role

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Speaker 3: in nominating Supreme Court justices who did implement that policy

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Speaker 3: or did rule that way. People may have just this

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Speaker 3: is why it's interesting talk to these people, and I

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Speaker 3: don't know. This is why I don't know the answer yet.

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Speaker 3: May have made had the view that I can protect

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Speaker 3: abortion rights this way, but I still think the economy

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Speaker 3: is nobody's hearing me, and he hears me better, so

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Speaker 3: I'm going to do both. I'm not sure. I don't

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Speaker 3: know that we entirely know, but I think there was

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Speaker 3: an overconfidence because of these special elections and because of

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Speaker 3: the midterms where there is a smaller turnout, So perhaps

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Speaker 3: the more exercised, excited people turn out, and a belief

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Speaker 3: it was going to replicate itself. It didn't. There's a

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Speaker 3: lesson in that somewhere. And I don't think we know

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Speaker 3: all the answers yet.

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Speaker 1: I don't think he does give out the vibe, if

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Speaker 1: you will, which seems to be the word of the year,

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Speaker 1: that he feels super strongly about limiting abortion rights.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: I think people see his lifestyle, but then you do

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Speaker 1: look at the Supreme Court, then you do look at JD.

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Speaker 1: Vance and you're like, how can you not be worried

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Speaker 1: about this? And you know it's interesting. I know Ronald

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Speaker 1: Reagan is how old I am, jen and you know

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Speaker 1: he campaigned a lot on restricting abortion, I think in

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Speaker 1: order to win over the evangelical vote, and then once

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Speaker 1: in office, he basically made it Priority number seventy nine,

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Speaker 1: like nothing was really ever done about it, So maybe

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Speaker 1: people just since from Donald Trump, this wasn't an issue

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Speaker 1: he cared about. But on the other hand, Jen, I mean, hello,

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Speaker 1: you look at the Supreme Court justices and you look

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Speaker 1: at you know, Dobbs, and you're thinking, wait, how can

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Speaker 1: you compartmentalize these things?

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Speaker 3: That is my question. And in what's different now from

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Speaker 3: the Reagan administration is, of course that the DBS decision happened.

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Speaker 3: So states have the ability, as you know, and you've

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Speaker 3: been talking about, to put in place their own laws,

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Speaker 3: and we've seen the impact of those. So when Trump

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Speaker 3: or Jade Vans or whomever it may be, says it

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Speaker 3: should go back to the states, well we see how

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Speaker 3: that goes. What it means is we have a country

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Speaker 3: where half the states have restrictive laws that could lead

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Speaker 3: to deaths in some cases women having sepsist, doctors being prosecuted,

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Speaker 3: and half the states that don't. And that's what's also different.

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Speaker 1: But why didn't that resonate with more people? Which brings

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Speaker 1: me back to the information ecosystem. Yeah, you know, I

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Speaker 1: mean I think it is so fragmented. You can create

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Speaker 1: your own digital diet or media diet, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I heard so many people saying, well, it's fine to

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Speaker 1: let the states decide as if the people of those

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Speaker 1: states would be in a position. Well, they were in

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Speaker 1: some cases right with a referenda that were voted on

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Speaker 1: this go round. But somehow these stories did not penetrate

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Speaker 1: or did not get through a lot of voters about

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Speaker 1: the dangers of leaving it to states who would prohibit

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Speaker 1: abortion even in cases of rape, incest or when the

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Speaker 1: mother's life is in danger. There are states like that

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Speaker 1: out there, right chen.

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Speaker 3: Now, I think I have some ends I don't have,

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Speaker 3: but I'll just be like a kumble about the place

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Speaker 3: I don't have answers. And this is the place I

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Speaker 3: feel like I need to do more studying and understanding.

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Speaker 3: Is the disinformation space. I do think that unquestionably to me,

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Speaker 3: you know, one of the things that's changed even since

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Speaker 3: I got involved in politics is just the rise of

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Speaker 3: the percentage of people who get their information off of

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Speaker 3: platforms that have no fact checking mechanism and no accountability

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Speaker 3: for having disinformation spread right right, And as you know, well,

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Speaker 3: and I mean when I got started in democratic politics,

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Speaker 3: you know, most of it was like local TV ads.

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Speaker 3: That was what it was about. Obviously national TV, local print,

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Speaker 3: local TV is held to a higher standard of accountability

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Speaker 3: than social media platforms in terms of having accurate information

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Speaker 3: on their platforms. That is crazy, And so it is,

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Speaker 3: how does it change, How are people held to account?

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Speaker 3: Laws have to change. I don't even know the total

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Speaker 3: answer to it, but that seems to me to be

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Speaker 3: a core issue. The other issue I think that is

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Speaker 3: a real one is I don't think Joe Rogan deserves

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Speaker 3: like one hundred percent credit of love Donald Trump being elected,

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Speaker 3: but it was a misunderstanding of kind of also how

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Speaker 3: people are getting their information and an undervaluing of some

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Speaker 3: of those platforms that Trump was doing that either don't

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Speaker 3: really exist on the other side or not in those

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Speaker 3: not in the numbers exactly exactly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, And I also think, I mean, again, my

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Speaker 1: head is swimming with so many with so many things

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Speaker 1: that I've been trying to process over the last few days.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's this whole theory about a huge backlash

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Speaker 1: by young men and some older men, and perhaps that

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Speaker 1: explained some of the Latino vote to this idea that

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Speaker 1: women are making so many more strides. I mean, ostensibly,

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Speaker 1: you look at medical schools and law schools and that

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Speaker 1: you know, there was me too, there was Black Lives Matter,

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Speaker 1: and suddenly I think people were still angry about affirmative

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Speaker 1: action when it was in place, and they're sort of like,

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Speaker 1: I thought this country was a meritocracy, and now I'm

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Speaker 1: feeling screwed.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think the feeling screwed takes many forms, right,

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Speaker 3: And maybe people who it is sexism for wouldn't even

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Speaker 3: admit to themselves that it's sexism, right.

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Speaker 2: I think that's so right, Jen.

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Speaker 1: I think that some people don't even recognize their implicit bias.

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Speaker 1: I have a friend who said, I'm just worried that

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Speaker 1: Kamala Harris doesn't have the stature to deal with world

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Speaker 1: leaders And I thought, wow, this was a very successful woman,

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Speaker 1: and I thought, maybe just replace stature with penis.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I was so honestly so.

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Speaker 3: That maybe replace stature with phenis got the mate out there.

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Speaker 1: But it was so it was so perplexing to me,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, Oh, this this is someone who

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Speaker 1: doesn't realize her deep seated implicit bias against female leadership.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and that is of it's so hard to measure

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Speaker 3: because people don't even admit it to themselves, right, and

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Speaker 3: it is I mean, in my on the Latino men

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Speaker 3: part of this, which I think there's not one answer for.

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Speaker 1: But I agree, and I think we have to be

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Speaker 1: careful stratifying society and the way we do with polls.

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Speaker 1: I think Mike Murphy, I heard John Heilman say this

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Speaker 1: on Bill Maher. So I'm quoting a quote of a quote,

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Speaker 1: but Mike Murphy said, you know, when are we going

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Speaker 1: to just call Latino men men? I mean it almost

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Speaker 1: underscores or exacerbates this notion of identity politics, right.

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Speaker 3: Yes, And I think you know it depends on also,

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Speaker 3: like no group is monolithic. Women are not monolithic. Clearly

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Speaker 3: white women are not monolithic. But Latino men are not

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Speaker 3: monolithic either. And the thing that Latino men in Florida

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Speaker 3: might be grappling with, including like this notion of you know,

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Speaker 3: socialism and communism and what it means if you came

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Speaker 3: from a country where that was a dominant issue like Cuba,

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Speaker 3: right in Cuba. And also Christina Landon, I'm going to

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Speaker 3: quote someone now who sits next to me. She's a Telemundo,

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Speaker 3: longtime Telemundo reporter, and I had dinner with her maybe

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Speaker 3: three nights before the election, and she said to me

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Speaker 3: something that stuck with me, which is like, sometimes the

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Speaker 3: issues that democrats think are going to work for them,

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Speaker 3: like democracy and abortion rights, work the reverse way amongst

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Speaker 3: someone because there's sometimes more conservative social values. Anyway, It's

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Speaker 3: my point is there's not a monolithic take here. I've

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Speaker 3: also in my kind of research studying phase of this

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Speaker 3: because this is my coping mechanism. Yeah, I've been reading

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Speaker 3: Foala Ramos's book. It's called The Defectors, and it's about

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Speaker 3: the Latino men who have become maga and why now

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Speaker 3: it's not She's very, very humble in the book, but

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Speaker 3: it's not conclusive. But part of it she talks about

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Speaker 3: identity and identifying as an American versus identifying as an immigrant,

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Speaker 3: and that's an interesting part of the conversation too. But

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Speaker 3: I don't know the total answer, but I think it's

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Speaker 3: one that is worth everyone continuing to learn and explore

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Speaker 3: and listen more about.

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Speaker 1: I think that's true because I think often these pundits

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Speaker 1: make these pronouncements right that are too general, that treat

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Speaker 1: communities as monolithic and not as separate people, you know,

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Speaker 1: separate even individual people and families, right, who have had

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Speaker 1: very different experiences, as you said, certainly within the Latino community.

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Speaker 1: If you want to get smarter every morning with a

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Speaker 1: breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and

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Speaker 1: wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter,

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Speaker 1: Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. What

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Speaker 1: do you think about all the finger pointing at wokeness?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 1: First of five, I hate that word, and I feel

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Speaker 1: like it's been a bit overstated, but there does seem

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Speaker 1: to be an increasing intolerance for being told how you're

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Speaker 1: supposed to think and being told you're less than because

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Speaker 1: you don't think a certain way.

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Speaker 3: I think that's it for me, and again I don't,

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Speaker 3: But how I've thought about it is nobody likes to

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Speaker 3: be condescended to or told that they have to hit

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Speaker 3: a certain litmus test of things to be welcomed and

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Speaker 3: invited in the party. And I think sometimes people feel

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Speaker 3: that way about the Democratic Party. And I do think

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Speaker 3: that some of the positions that Vice President Harris took

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Speaker 3: when she was running for president in twenty nineteen, which

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Speaker 3: I actually don't think are her positions because they weren't

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Speaker 3: before and they weren't after. And there's an inauthenticity to

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Speaker 3: that six months of her life, right, But which is

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Speaker 3: a lesson for lots of people running for office. Be

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Speaker 3: authentic to what you believe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, my sister used to say. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you knew my sister was running for lieutenant governor with

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Speaker 1: I think you and I have talked about this with

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Speaker 1: Mark Warner. And then she got diagnosed with pancreatic cancer

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Speaker 1: and had to drop out, sadly tragically. And you know,

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Speaker 1: Emily used to say to me, when you run for office,

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Speaker 1: you have to be willing to lose. I think what

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Speaker 1: she meant is you have got to adhere to your

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Speaker 1: core values who you are as a person, and if

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Speaker 1: you lose, then you're not meant to win. And you know,

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Speaker 1: and I so respected that, and I think it speaks

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Speaker 1: to as you were saying the twenty nineteen positions. But

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Speaker 1: can I just add something, Jen, because I wonder if

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Speaker 1: you've also thought about this. Seems to me people kind

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Speaker 1: of forget that moment in time too. I mean it

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Speaker 1: was sort of right on the heels of me too,

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Speaker 1: right on the heels of Black Lives Matter. I think

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Speaker 1: there were forces that were pulling everybody and I don't

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Speaker 1: want to necessarily to say to the left, but maybe

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Speaker 1: it was to the left. But this kind of realization,

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Speaker 1: this feeling that you know, if you're a white American,

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Speaker 1: you're to blame and there's something wrong with you, and

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Speaker 1: that you're part of the problem, and you know, the

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Speaker 1: whole Karen thing and all that. I wonder if her

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Speaker 1: positions were in a way informed by that environment that

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Speaker 1: we were experiencing, and that this election in a way

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Speaker 1: was a repudiation or an expression of some of those feelings.

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Speaker 2: Does that make sense at all?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, I think there is a huge swath of

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Speaker 3: the population voters, voters i should say, who didn't feel

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Speaker 3: heard or connected with the Democratic Party messaging and the

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Speaker 3: top of the ticket. And that is not it's a

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Speaker 3: divided country all the things. But there are policy issues

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Speaker 3: that should be helpful to the very same people who

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Speaker 3: voted against the Democratic Party platform and ticket right, including

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Speaker 3: advocacy for a minimum wage, including like raising taxes on

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Speaker 3: the highest income in corporate America. So that disconnect tells

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Speaker 3: you it's about something bigger, Right, It's about feeling left

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Speaker 3: out of the party, not feeling heard, feeling ignored. There

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Speaker 3: are lots of things that could be the reasoning for it.

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Speaker 3: But yes, I do think that is certainly a part

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Speaker 3: of it. You know, I also think there have been

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Speaker 3: some major shifts, and immigration is one of them. And

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Speaker 3: this is where I'm kind of like my personal views aside.

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Speaker 3: You'd have to put them aside when you're looking at

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Speaker 3: the political spectrum, right, immigration and the issue has become

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Speaker 3: the country has become increasingly conservative on that issue, right.

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Speaker 3: And I look at even the bipartisan border bill that

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Speaker 3: obviously didn't move forward, that was an incredibly conservative bill.

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 1: I wish they had made a point of how Trump

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Speaker 1: convinced Republicans not to even vote on it because it

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Speaker 1: would weaken his ability to weaponize immigration.

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Speaker 2: They've made me so mad.

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Speaker 3: I may yes they tried. It always felt like a

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Speaker 3: hard message to me, not in a fair way, but

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Speaker 3: because you're explaining, like how he prevented a legislative process

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Speaker 3: from moving forward. But what stuck out to me about

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Speaker 3: that bill is I think only five or six Democratic

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Speaker 3: senators voted against it. I think it would have been

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Speaker 3: twenty or twenty five a couple of years ago. So

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Speaker 3: to your point about where kind of the shifts have been,

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Speaker 3: that's one of the areas. And remember that same twenty

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Speaker 3: nineteen primary was when nearly everybody on stage raised their

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Speaker 3: hand that they would decriminalize border crossings. Right. The politics

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Speaker 3: on that have changed a lot, and I think it

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Speaker 3: is also related to feeling ignored, left behind by a

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Speaker 3: broad swath of working class America. That's part of Also.

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Speaker 1: I think it might be reflected by you know what

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Speaker 1: was mostly derided by some of those border states and

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Speaker 1: governors in terms of taking some of these immigrants and

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Speaker 1: putting them on planes and sending them to New York

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Speaker 1: City and sending them to other areas around the world.

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Speaker 1: And I remember I have a friend who's pretty conservative

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Speaker 1: who lives in Florida, and I said, what do you

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Speaker 1: think of that? And she said, I thought it was great.

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Speaker 1: And I think the point is that, you know, listen,

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Speaker 1: we can't have completely porous borders, right, you know, there

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Speaker 1: has to be some system for immigration. And I think

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Speaker 1: one of the other things that was undercovered was the

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Speaker 1: strain on social services that a huge influx. And now,

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Speaker 1: of course it's not they're eating the dogs, they're eating

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Speaker 1: the cats situation in that gross, you know, bigoted way,

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Speaker 1: But there is a genuine concern for I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of these communities that can absorb the number of

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Speaker 1: people who are coming in, and it can lead to

435
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,360
Speaker 1: more homelessness, you know, as you know, and I think

436
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,679
Speaker 1: it constrains school systems and hospitals. So, you know, I

437
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 1: would have liked to have seen that story be told

438
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 1: and then talk to the candidates about like what should

439
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: be done and along those lines. Since you were in

440
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 1: the Biden administration, why didn't they do more? And why

441
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 1: when he was elected jin was there almost a reversal

442
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: almost to come on in This is my impression and

443
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,479
Speaker 1: you can correct the record if I'm wrong. Sort of

444
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 1: this overreaction to the build the Wall rhetoric that led

445
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 1: to too big of an influx immigrants, you know, getting

446
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: rid of the remain in Mexico policy and all those things.

447
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: So was that kind of an f you to Trump?

448
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 1: And in retrospect, was that not the right thing to do?

449
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 3: Well? So a lot of things on this I think

450
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 3: sort of everybody's at fault in Washington in some ways

451
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 3: because immigration is such a politically charged issue that people

452
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,880
Speaker 3: are unwilling to compromise on it and have real negotiations

453
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 3: and discussions about it. I mean, Biden proposed an immigration

454
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,360
Speaker 3: bill that included increased border security and a more humane

455
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 3: asylum processing the first day, right right, no one would

456
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 3: discuss it, No one would come to the White House

457
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,919
Speaker 3: and meet with him about it. I'm not saying that

458
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 3: he's blameless. I'm just saying like that tells you a

459
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 3: lot about politics. Often brought that up during the campaign. Yeah,

460
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 3: that is true. What is also true is that because

461
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 3: the COVID restrictions were in place for so long, that

462
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 3: was in many ways artificially keeping the numbers lower until

463
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 3: they were flipped back. And then during that period of time,

464
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 3: there was the negotiation with Mexico about re implementing the

465
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 3: Remain in Mexico program, which was there was a lot

466
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 3: of criticism of and a lot of people who hated that,

467
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 3: especially from the left. So I think there was a

468
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 3: delayed reaction to where clearly the country was moving on

469
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:30,199
Speaker 3: immigration by I don't actually not really Joe Biden, but

470
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 3: a lot of people in the system and the Democratic

471
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 3: Party within the caucuses, and it wasn't very clear to

472
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 3: me that it had moved massively until that bipartisan border bill.

473
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,719
Speaker 3: So yes, hindsight's always twenty twenty. But I think looking now,

474
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 3: there are aspects of how the party should proceed from

475
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 3: here which I think this election should be partly informative about,

476
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 3: including acknowledging that the bore and having a secure border

477
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 3: is a part of what the Democratic Party messaging needs

478
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 3: to be proactively, you know. Yeah.

479
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: On the other hand, though, I think we should point

480
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: out how Donald Trump and the party exploited the immigration

481
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: issue with false information about the crimes that were committed

482
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: and really misrepresented the fact that actually immigrants commit fewer

483
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:29,239
Speaker 1: crimes than native foreign citizens in this country. But I

484
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,880
Speaker 1: think it just got so twisted and exploited, and the

485
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 1: fear and the you know, fentanyl and all that stuff.

486
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,959
Speaker 1: I think it got mixed up in one big bowl

487
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: and made people just terrified, and to the point where

488
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: for a lot of Americans, rounding up people and having

489
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: a mass deportation of thirteen million immigrants sounded like a

490
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,360
Speaker 1: good idea, which.

491
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 3: Is wrapping my head around that particular conclusion is one

492
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 3: that's been a particular, a very perplexing one to grapple.

493
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 3: I mean, when you also listen to focus groups and things,

494
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 3: people will when they learn more about it, they don't

495
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 3: love it, right, So, which is a relief, I suppose.

496
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 3: But I'm glad you brought all of that up. And

497
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 3: I think that the pieces of this that this is

498
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 3: a perfect disinformation example, right. I mean, actually, the border

499
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 3: numbers have been down over the last couple of months.

500
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: And I even looked up last night, you know about crimes,

501
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: you know, the crime rate among the immigrant population, and

502
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: I thought I would see what I saw with my

503
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: own eyes, but that it was just incredibly and cruelly

504
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: manipulated by the Trump campaign to a point that it

505
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: was really grotesque.

506
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, as has crime numbers in major cities, which is

507
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 3: not where actually crime has gone up. And there is

508
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 3: also we are still the United States of America, where

509
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 3: we are a country of immigrants, right. There is still

510
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 3: a humanity side of this that I know.

511
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: But it's it's really it's perplexing and disturbing that. You know,

512
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: I saw something on social media. You might have seen

513
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: it too, Jen, because I have a feeling we're probably

514
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: fed the same content. But it was I think it

515
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 1: was an Asian comedian who was interviewing a white guy,

516
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: probably in his sixties at a Chinese restaurant and the

517
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: guy basically said I don't want the white race to

518
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: be replaced. I mean it was sort of white nationalists

519
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: rhetoric that has been somewhat normalized.

520
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 3: I want to know how it is for Donald Trump

521
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 3: when you're so into facts, because his entire campaign is

522
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 3: not based in facts.

523
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 2: It was all based in propaganda and emotion.

524
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 4: I voted for Donald Trump for one reason only. His policies,

525
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 4: if implemented, would slow the dispossession of whites in the

526
00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 4: United States. If you were to deport all illegally, if

527
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 4: you were to think very hard about letting in any mushoms,

528
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 4: all of this would slow the rate at which whites

529
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 4: are becoming a minority.

530
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: I did a documentary series for NATCHIU in twenty eighteen,

531
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: and one of the subjects was white anxiety. And you know,

532
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: I think there are a lot of people when you

533
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: think of the fact that there is going to be

534
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: a majority minority population by twenty forty four in this country,

535
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: really feel like that as a white American, I'm losing

536
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: my place in this country.

537
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 2: And I don't think.

538
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: People people are excited, or a lot of people are

539
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: not excited about a pluralistic society.

540
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, in this group and it just breaks my heart.

541
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 3: It breaks my heart too. It is where the country

542
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 3: has been headed for some time, right, And there is

543
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 3: the left behind aspect of this, which there's lots of

544
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 3: reasons for, but social media is one of them right

545
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 3: where people are looking at social media and thinking everybody

546
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 3: has it better than me, right, and that includes I

547
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 3: think a lot of communities where the factory where their

548
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 3: grandparents worked, right, No longer is the factory that's driving

549
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 3: an amazing life right where.

550
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 2: No, totally.

551
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: I talked to somebody in Nebraska about this who worked

552
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: at a meat packing plan. He was paid, you know,

553
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 1: a good salary where he could raise his kids and

554
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: have a middle class life in this small rural town

555
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: in Nebraska. And then union started losing power. They started importing.

556
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 1: The company started importing lower wage workers from Mexico and

557
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: other countries. And then another guy talked to in Nebraska

558
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: was like, they're doing jobs that a lot of Americans

559
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: don't want to do. They don't want to work in

560
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: a meat processing plan. And a lot of the employees

561
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: who are immigrants are grateful to be able to, you know,

562
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: have a full time, steady job.

563
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 2: So it's so complex, isn't it.

564
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 3: Jen, It is incredibly complex. I think lots of different

565
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 3: communities see this differently. The business community obviously sees this

566
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 3: differently from people in communities that have changed massively. Even

567
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 3: the communities that have changed massively, a lot of people

568
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 3: in those communities and may not want to do those jobs.

569
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 3: To your point, you know, there's also issues which I

570
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 3: think we're going to see, not exact replication, I hope not,

571
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 3: but some of. I mean, the person who Trump just

572
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 3: named to be his borders are is the person who

573
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 3: is responsible for family separations. Is that what people want?

574
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 4: Well?

575
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: Did you hear that guy on the podcast I forget

576
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: his name who said, Yeah, we're going to round up

577
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: We're going to deport grandmothers, were going to deport wives

578
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: and husbands, We're going to put children in cages. It's

579
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: going to be glorious. Do you know who I'm talking Oh?

580
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 3: Yes, Mike Davis. Am I thinking he's the right person?

581
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 2: Yes?

582
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 3: And the guy I'm talking about is Holman, who was

583
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 3: announced as the as the border czar, who basically has

584
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 3: said governors others who if you try to resist me,

585
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 3: will come double our numbers of law enforcement who come

586
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 3: to your state. Who's talked about re implementing workplace raids.

587
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 3: Is that what people want in these communities. I think

588
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 3: we'll see, and I don't wish that upon any community,

589
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 3: but I do think that we're going to see in

590
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 3: the coming months what people voted for.

591
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: What do you think about people speaking of that, like

592
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: Gavin Newsom and Governor Pritzker trying to figure out ways

593
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: to protect their states from certain policies that the Trump

594
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:39,719
Speaker 1: administration wants to enact.

595
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 3: I think that is going to be one. To me,

596
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 3: it's one of the most interesting spaces to watch, as

597
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 3: much as I think many of the people who voted

598
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 3: for Kamala Harris and mail millions of Democrats independents out

599
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 3: there feel very lost for Lorne looking for property in Canada.

600
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 3: Whatever they're doing right now.

601
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: Well there, I think, especially because they're the guard rails

602
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: of disappeared, you know, with the House, the Senate, the

603
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 1: you know, judiciary, the executive branch is like, fuck me,

604
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: what are.

605
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 2: We supposed to do?

606
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 3: Exactly?

607
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: So excuse my French every week, that's all.

608
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 3: Right, don't worry. Yes, So to me, it is interesting

609
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 3: for two reasons. One is that to me is one

610
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 3: of the guardrails is governors in these states who are

611
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 3: already conveying they're going to push back more heally in

612
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 3: Massachusetts it's another one of them.

613
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: But isn't that dangerous on one level? I mean, it

614
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 1: takes a lot of hutzpa to do that, because I

615
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 1: know Kathy Hokeel got on the phone with Donald Trump,

616
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: and you know that isn't without risks in terms of

617
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 1: what retribution he could level at certain states.

618
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 3: Right, that's true. But I think these governors are showing

619
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 3: who's got the hutzpah right and who is going to

620
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 3: do everything they can to lead and protect to the

621
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 3: best of their ability, the people in their states. I

622
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 3: also think it's interesting because right now there's no leader

623
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 3: of the Democratic Party, and that is a vacuum, but

624
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 3: a good one because people are going to emerge, right

625
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 3: I don't know who they are. We'll see, but some

626
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 3: of them, maybe some of these governors who push back,

627
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 3: we'll see.

628
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, Gavin Newsom, what a surprise, you mean,

629
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: he's has national ambitions. But other than that, But other

630
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 1: than Gavin Newsom, and I guess who are some of

631
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: the people Jen You're going to be keeping an eye

632
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: on in terms of rising stars we wanted to do

633
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: a whole series with and it kind of fell apart.

634
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 1: But I thought it would have been so smart to say,

635
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: you know, everyone's bemoaning the fact that there aren't enough leaders,

636
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 1: and I wanted to say, well, here's some people who

637
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 1: are doing great things. Keep your eye on these folks.

638
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 2: But it didn't. It didn't come together.

639
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 3: But you still do that. Should do what we're doing it.

640
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 3: We're doing it. I mean, we just had you know,

641
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 3: I think there are a lot of governors. But I

642
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:53,760
Speaker 3: also will say, and I'll come back in a second.

643
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 3: We just had the new mayor of Tulsa, Oklahoma on yesterday,

644
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,240
Speaker 3: and first African American mayor, and that's city's history, given

645
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 3: the history of Tulsa. A pretty remarkable young guy, so

646
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,760
Speaker 3: compelling and interesting. We also had Justin Jones and Mallory

647
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,760
Speaker 3: mcmarrow on are those people all going to be president

648
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 3: in four years?

649
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 1: I don't know who Justin Jones and Mallory are so.

650
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 3: Well here now I'm going to tell you so. Justin

651
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 3: Jones is a state rep in Tennessee. He was one

652
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 3: of the Tennessee three.

653
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 2: Oh oh, I know of him, right.

654
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:28,280
Speaker 3: He is incredibly compelling and powerful and has been fearless

655
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 3: in fighting for INSUC believes in a red state. Mallory

656
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 3: mcmarrow you should check her out on Instagram because she's

657
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 3: been answering reader questions or viewer questions hard ones. She's

658
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,720
Speaker 3: a state senator in Michigan. She ran in twenty eighteen

659
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:45,479
Speaker 3: after Trump won in twenty sixteen, and she I talked

660
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 3: to them because I think it is important for people

661
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 3: to see new faces and different faces and inspiring faces

662
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 3: and people who are fighting back. There weren't number of

663
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 3: people who won in states that Trump won, I mean,

664
00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 3: including a re election. Dammy Baldwin won reelection right in Nevada,

665
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 3: Jackie Rose in one reelection. Alissa Slatkin is a new

666
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,399
Speaker 3: senator from Michigan. There are now two black women who

667
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,800
Speaker 3: are senators. Those were not Trump one states, but still inspiring.

668
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 3: But in terms of rising stars, some of it is

669
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 3: we don't entirely know yet. And what's cool about democracy

670
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 3: is we don't actually pick you and I as much

671
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 3: as we've done this for a long time, you know.

672
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 3: But some of the people I think will be interesting

673
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 3: to watch, I mean obviously knew Someome Pritzker more.

674
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 1: Less more more Maryland everybody and very inspiring life story,

675
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: very charismatic guy.

676
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,280
Speaker 3: Very Yeah, he did a full University of Maryland football practice.

677
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,839
Speaker 3: That's not the most important thing, but you know, an

678
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 3: interesting thing and shotgunna beer for people who think that's compelling.

679
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 3: Some will obviously Governor Shapiro, but I think it's it

680
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 3: could be beyond that, you know, I think there's mayors

681
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 3: who are interesting, there are younger state members of Congress

682
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 3: who are interesting. And I think it's just going to

683
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 3: be interesting to see who rises, because this is the

684
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 3: vacuum means people rise, some rise who you don't know of,

685
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 3: some rise and fail who you think are going to

686
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 3: be the next thing. And that's what's interesting about this moment.

687
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 1: And some come out of nowhere, like Jimmy Carter out

688
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 1: of planes Georgia, like who knew, right, he knew.

689
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 3: And in some ways differently. But Barack Obama, I mean,

690
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 3: he had given that speech in two thousand and four, right,

691
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 3: Carrie lost, but like nobody thought he was going to

692
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 3: be the nominee. No one thought he would have a

693
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 3: chance of winning. He did four years later, So we'll see.

694
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 1: Do you know, how do you think Joe Biden is

695
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: feeling right now.

696
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 3: Oh, I have not spoken with him, and not that

697
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 3: you were asking me that, but just for clarity for

698
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 3: your listeners, I think sad and probably pretty dark about

699
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 3: this moment.

700
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: Do you think he feels at all responsible?

701
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 3: I don't know if that's where his head is at.

702
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 3: I really don't know. I think he probably looks at

703
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 3: where working class voters were and wonders if he the party.

704
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 3: I'm not sure Harris should have been doing something differently

705
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 3: and better. I mean, you know, his I like, I

706
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 3: always think about a lot of some of the conversations

707
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 3: I had with him when I was the press secretary,

708
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 3: where he would always tell me that's not how people talk, right.

709
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 3: You know, There'd be language that was spit out of

710
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 3: the bureaucratic system and he'd say, like, nobody talks like

711
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 3: that and scran Pennsylvania. Now, I'm not suggesting I think

712
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 3: Harris did far better than he would have done had

713
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 3: he remained the nominee. So I'm not suggesting that. I

714
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 3: do think that he probably has a mixture of emotions

715
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 3: right now about how the party communicated about I don't

716
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 3: know if it's the timing of when he dropped out.

717
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 3: I don't know if he thinks he could have done better.

718
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 3: I don't know what's going on in his head right now.

719
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,399
Speaker 1: I think he's probably wondering about his legacy too.

720
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 3: His legacy, I think is the biggest thing, and this

721
00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:00,320
Speaker 3: is you know, I remember I was working for President

722
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 3: Obama when Trump won, and I was his communications director,

723
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 3: and the first twenty four to forty eight hours was

724
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,760
Speaker 3: really more on a very personal, visceral level for people

725
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 3: in the building what does this mean for them? And

726
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 3: I'm not trying to be cheesy about it, but people

727
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 3: really were like, I'm a Muslim American, Like, what does

728
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 3: this mean for me? You know, I'm from the LGBTQ

729
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 3: plus community, what does this mean for me? It was

730
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 3: very personal. That was what everybody was doing. We weren't

731
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 3: thinking about the legacy. It quickly moved there, though, to

732
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 3: a point where it felt like so many people in

733
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 3: the country knew that Trump was racist and sexist and

734
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 3: just looked the other way. And it felt disappointing right

735
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 3: not in individuals, but felt like maybe we haven't made

736
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 3: as much progress as a country as we thought we had.

737
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 3: And I think for Biden, he just worked for eight

738
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,919
Speaker 3: years as Vice president four years in between four years

739
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,839
Speaker 3: more as president worked to make progress on a lot

740
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 3: of things that he has right to be proud of.

741
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 1: I feel like that could have been you know, I'm

742
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 1: telling the Press Secretary, but I do think Jen maybe

743
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 1: they weren't up to speed on the way people get

744
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 1: information either, I think President Biden, and please disagree with

745
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 1: me if you don't think this is the case, but

746
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 1: you know, and everything is hindsight is twenty twenty, but

747
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 1: I feel like they were kind of operating a twenty

748
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: twenty press organization in a nineteen ninety kind of way.

749
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: I think they were slow to understand the power of

750
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 1: social media. I think they were still showing up on

751
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: Meet the Press and thinking that was really going to

752
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: have an impact. And I respect Meet the Press, and

753
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not putting down legacy media, but it

754
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 1: seems like, you know, there was this almost had in

755
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: the sand idea or kind of resorting to the same old,

756
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,839
Speaker 1: same old that did not serve them well, where they

757
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 1: weren't really able to explain their accomplishments that they didn't

758
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: kind of talk where all these you know, people are

759
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,879
Speaker 1: getting information on all these fragmented ways. I think they

760
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 1: were kind of slow to pick that up. What do

761
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:16,240
Speaker 1: you think?

762
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with some of it and not some

763
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 3: of it. So I think one they definitely weren't doing

764
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 3: meet the press. You can ask the people doing the.

765
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 2: Oppress there, right, but you know when they would.

766
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, so you can ask them, they would tell

767
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 3: you they never engaged with them. I think there are

768
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 3: people on the team, including there's a guy named Rob

769
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 3: Flaherty who ran the digital team for Biden and continued

770
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 3: with Harris, who I think is, no, you don't really

771
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 3: have money of money on the campaign you don't have

772
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 3: in the White House, who built very large followings and

773
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 3: to the best of his ability within his constraints, and

774
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 3: his team did really amazing things.

775
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 1: Well, I thought the Harris campaign was was doing an

776
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,359
Speaker 1: awesome t I'm talking about I'm talking about the Biden administry,

777
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 1: same people doing the stuff. Did they just not have

778
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 1: any money?

779
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 3: You don't have money in the White House for any

780
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 3: of it, so you have it on a campaign. I also, though,

781
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 3: think that there has to be candidates who have the

782
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 3: agility to do those things right, and I don't know

783
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 3: that anybody who was at a certain age has that.

784
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 3: It real agility, right.

785
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:25,879
Speaker 2: It's just Kamala Harris did.

786
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 1: She's younger, right, but I still think but I also

787
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:31,359
Speaker 1: don't as much like.

788
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 3: Rad Summer, which was cool, didn't work. Young people didn't

789
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 3: turn out. So like I think, there's also like a

790
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 3: lot of things about they can control and things they can't,

791
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 3: including there isn't the same ecosystem on the left, including

792
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 3: you need to have people who are willing to do

793
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 3: a range of things. And yes, she was willing to

794
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 3: do a lot of things, not all of the things,

795
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:53,359
Speaker 3: but a range of things.

796
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:55,839
Speaker 1: And there was that three week blackout period which I

797
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 1: honestly could not understand.

798
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:01,720
Speaker 3: That was making me crazy, just as I also what

799
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 3: was that? I think, I don't know. I think maybe

800
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 3: a focus on the debate and the debate being a

801
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 3: moment where but let's just be real, debates are important

802
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 3: for the American people. They do not. This is also

803
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 3: like an outdated view of like how elections will turn.

804
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 3: In my view, you should do this.

805
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 2: Should have been everywhere everywhere.

806
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,319
Speaker 3: But also Tim Walls, who was this kind of like

807
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 3: so appealing rough around the edges guy during veepstakes where

808
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 3: he propelled himself onto the ticket essentially and then he

809
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 3: disappeared from public view for like four months. I don't

810
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:38,959
Speaker 3: think it would have changed the outcome. I think there's

811
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 3: like lots of factors as soon as I've digested it,

812
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 3: but it is a you have to be fearless and

813
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 3: how you communicate and who and what formats you communicate on,

814
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 3: and that means doing all of the things, including with

815
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 3: people you disagree with who are going to be tough.

816
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 3: I actually thought one of her better interviews was with

817
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 3: Brett Baer, like she liked being on you know, oh,

818
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 3: having a tough interview. You know.

819
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 1: So I think I always find that people do better

820
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 1: when they're asked really challenging, pointed questions. I always felt

821
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,399
Speaker 1: that about Hillary Clinton. If you are giving them these

822
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 1: almost weird like amorphous softballs, it's really hard to kind

823
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 1: of hone your message and be succinct and say what

824
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: you really need to say. But I, you know, listen.

825
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 1: I I also felt that, and again I think she

826
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 1: really did well in so many areas, but I was

827
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: frustrated by her inability to really succinctly answer questions at times,

828
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: jen and to kind of like if she was asked

829
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 1: about changing the Supreme Court at that CNN to Hall.

830
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 1: She had an opportunity to talk about ethics and what

831
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 1: you know Alito and Clarence Thomas were doing, and she

832
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 1: answered like in one sentence and then like went on

833
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: to something that had nothing to do with the question.

834
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 1: You know, people notice that, and it's like, answer the

835
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 1: goddamn question, please.

836
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I love this is I'm seeing the

837
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,760
Speaker 3: Katie Kirk I watched on TV for so many years.

838
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 2: And I'm so hungry. I didn't never say God, damn,

839
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 2: I know, but.

840
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 3: You thought it. This is my kind of like unsolicited

841
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 3: advice to every person who may run for president. And

842
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 3: I'm not picking any ponies. Whatever pony emerges emerge, sit

843
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 3: down and think about why are you running for president?

844
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 3: Right What is the most driving important thing for you?

845
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,439
Speaker 3: So you can answer that question and then explore what

846
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 3: you actually think about the hard questions of the day.

847
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:33,959
Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be what's poll tested. In fact,

848
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 3: ignore that. What do you think should happen on immigration?

849
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 3: What do you think should happen in Israel? Every one

850
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 3: of them should be able to for themselves answer those questions,

851
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 3: and this is the time to do that right now.

852
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 3: Explore those things, learn more about areas you don't know

853
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 3: and form your own opinion.

854
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 1: Well, one of the most damaging things was when she

855
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 1: did go on the View and they made Hay over

856
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 1: this when she said, I really can't think of a

857
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: single thing she'd do differently than Joe Biden. First of all, Jen,

858
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 1: you're an insider. Why didn't Joe Biden say, listen, I

859
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 1: know you're going to have to separate yourself from this administration.

860
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: Let's talk about areas where you can, where they're legitimate

861
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:37,279
Speaker 1: and godspeed. Because I think somebody wrote that it was

862
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 1: almost as if they were more afraid of hurting Joe

863
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: Biden's feelings than winning the election. Okay, help me out here, Jen.

864
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 3: I wish that would have happened. I don't know that

865
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:52,359
Speaker 3: it didn't, but I think we can all assume it didn't, right,

866
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 3: And I think.

867
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:57,720
Speaker 1: You mean that come to Jesus conversation script.

868
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I've worked for a lot of people in

869
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 3: different circumstances. I mean, this was an incredibly I'm not

870
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 3: making this as an excuse, but unique and painful summer

871
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 3: for Joe Biden, for everybody around him, for major leaders

872
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 3: of the Democratic Party who he'll probably never speak to

873
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:18,879
Speaker 3: again like Nancy Pelosi, and there was a fragility. There

874
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 3: was also What's also true, and I think this may

875
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 3: have been weighed the wrong way, is that when Joe

876
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 3: Biden made the decision, he did for good reason. He

877
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 3: was beloved by the Democratic Party, and I think in

878
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 3: her mind there's a she navigated the politics of that

879
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 3: in a very tricky way, right right, So, I don't know.

880
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 3: I think that answer on the view was she had

881
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 3: many moments of brilliance. That was not one of them.

882
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 2: Well why couldn't.

883
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 1: I mean, it seems to me if I were running

884
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 1: for president, Jen, I would sit down with my you know,

885
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:53,879
Speaker 1: brain trust, and I'd be like, okay, let's play out

886
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 1: these questions. What am I going to say yeah to this?

887
00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 1: And I would have had a template that I would

888
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 1: have carried around with me in every interview, and I

889
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: would have reviewed them and said, you know, this is

890
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 1: what I believe and this is how I'm going to

891
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,720
Speaker 1: handle a question like that. Now, it just didn't seem

892
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 1: like that was done. Am I crazy?

893
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:17,839
Speaker 3: Well, we don't know, you know. And here's the thing.

894
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:20,879
Speaker 3: Looking at the first biteen debate, this is a different thing.

895
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 3: But I've prepped a lot of people who you know

896
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 3: what they should say, and then they ignore your advice.

897
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 3: So I don't know if that happened, And like she

898
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 3: just in the moment felt like she should just not

899
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,479
Speaker 3: not differentiate. She kind of over the course of time

900
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 3: she started differentiating herself, but it was a little bit

901
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 3: on the margins, right, right, and it wasn't something I

902
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 3: think people could bite into now. She also had some challenges.

903
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,879
Speaker 3: Any sitting vice president has say on Gaza, right, which

904
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 3: is like, I actually don't know what her view is

905
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 3: on that issue. I don't know, but she's the sitting

906
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:57,840
Speaker 3: vice president. She can't come out with a massively different

907
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 3: position than the sitting president while security people and diplomats

908
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 3: are negotiating a deal. She was kind of stuck on

909
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 3: that right.

910
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 1: Right, So I don't There was this impression, I guess,

911
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 1: and I guess because of the Abraham Accords and moving

912
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:17,399
Speaker 1: the embassy right. I mean, so there was this I

913
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 1: think pre baked feeling on the part of some voters

914
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 1: that Donald Trump was going to be much stronger for Israel.

915
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:27,799
Speaker 1: And I think when she expressed and which I think

916
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 1: is so sad, the inability to think dialectically and say yes,

917
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 1: and is just been lost in this country. But I

918
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:39,759
Speaker 1: think when she expressed even sympathy for people who had,

919
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 1: you know, the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, I think a

920
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 1: lot of people interpreted that as not being strong enough

921
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 1: for Israel.

922
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 3: Yes, and the politics, I mean, the humanity of the issue,

923
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 3: as you just touched on, is the humanity of the issue.

924
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 3: There's also, of course families that lost loved ones who

925
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 3: were killed by Hamas all. Of course, of course all

926
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 3: is true. I know I'm not saying, but all is true.

927
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 3: I think for her, the politics of it were such

928
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 3: that before she became the nominee, there was a feeling

929
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 3: that the Democratic Party, by some Jewish Americans not all,

930
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:20,479
Speaker 3: was aligning themselves or not doing enough to push back

931
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 3: on anti Semitism. Right. You saw that in focus groups

932
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:25,479
Speaker 3: a lot. I don't think that was talked about enough

933
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:30,320
Speaker 3: as a real issue. And then you also had young people,

934
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 3: communities of color, obviously college campuses, who felt there was

935
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:42,240
Speaker 3: an ignoring of the human humanitarian tragedies and got both

936
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 3: were happening at the same time. And I Trump somehow

937
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,839
Speaker 3: screwed it it right, and he his view and we'll

938
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 3: see if this is what he implements is that Netnahu,

939
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 3: she gets to do whatever he wants and should plow

940
00:51:57,440 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 3: for it and level Gaza, and like that's all fine.

941
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 3: You know.

942
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 1: I talked to a friend of mine who said her

943
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:05,839
Speaker 1: daughter went to this Ivy League school and a lot

944
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 1: of her friends didn't vote to send a message to

945
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris about Gaza.

946
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 3: They essentially voted to alec Donald Trump, whose position is

947
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 3: Gaza who Gaza?

948
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 1: What?

949
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:23,239
Speaker 3: Ntan Yahoo? Who? By the way, many Jewish Americans and

950
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,319
Speaker 3: people in Israel do not like right right, So he's

951
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:31,879
Speaker 3: saying give him free pass that. It does not make

952
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 3: a lot of sense to me.

953
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 1: I just yeah, I mean, listen, I know people feel passionately,

954
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 1: but it just seems like by not voting, they were

955
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:42,600
Speaker 1: giving the election to somebody who, as you said, you know,

956
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:47,240
Speaker 1: is not going to even listen to their concerns about

957
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:50,400
Speaker 1: what is going on. And one last question, Jen, I

958
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:53,959
Speaker 1: just want to ask one question about Trump's behavior, Jen,

959
00:52:54,800 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: Can you explain why his behavior, his language, which his

960
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 1: coarseness and crudeness, why a lot of people seem to

961
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 1: like that. I mean, every time I'd hear him say something,

962
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 1: and I guess maybe again it's a backlash to quote

963
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 1: unquote wokeness or political correctness. You know, it's part of that.

964
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 1: But when I saw him pretending to give the mic

965
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 1: a blowjob, I was like, oh my god. And then

966
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:26,799
Speaker 1: other people like I looked at the people in the background,

967
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 1: they were laughing. Does it just not matter how somebody

968
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 1: comports themselves in our society anymore? Maybe we're just like,

969
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 1: I don't know, are we out of step?

970
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think of myself as prude in

971
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 3: any way, shape or form. I can talk about all

972
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,719
Speaker 3: the things, but I the crudeness, I guess. I think

973
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:50,320
Speaker 3: maybe people find funny, and maybe the talking about sharks

974
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 3: and electrocuting and whatever that craziness people find funny. What

975
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 3: I do have a hard time understanding is the cruelty

976
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 3: and the cruelty and why that is okay Because I

977
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:07,360
Speaker 3: don't know. I don't think of myself as naive. I

978
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 3: generally think of people, most human beings, as being kind,

979
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:16,719
Speaker 3: right and rooting for other humans. And you know the

980
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 3: things he says when he talks about Hannibal Lecter, I'm like,

981
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 3: that is weird and creepy. But some people, maybe they

982
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:24,360
Speaker 3: find that funny I don't know, but the cruelty is

983
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 3: what I don't have an answer for, and I can't

984
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:28,360
Speaker 3: really understand.

985
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:31,400
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you one of the questions that

986
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 1: a lot of people submitted when they heard that we

987
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:38,719
Speaker 1: were going to be talking. So many people asked if

988
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 1: the Democrats were going to ask for a recount and

989
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 1: why there are twenty million votes missing. I want to

990
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 1: make sure everyone knows that there's been no evidence of

991
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 1: voter fraud and the reason there are fewer votes is

992
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 1: because there was a lower turnout this year compared to

993
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 1: twenty twenty. But are you hearing that from a lot

994
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:01,320
Speaker 1: of your fellow Democrats or a lot of you viewers, Jen.

995
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 3: I hear that a lot on social media platforms, like

996
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:08,239
Speaker 3: people who and those are valid voices of course too,

997
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:12,360
Speaker 3: but like people who are replying and asking questions like

998
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 3: that and not understanding to your point, there was a

999
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:19,759
Speaker 3: lower turnout and also there were still, at least there

1000
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 3: have been and there still are today votes being counted

1001
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:25,240
Speaker 3: in California, which is always the case, but people forget

1002
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:27,319
Speaker 3: that it takes a couple more weeks because of how

1003
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 3: California takes a while to count their votes. That's another

1004
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:32,919
Speaker 3: topic for another podcast and why it takes so long.

1005
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:36,839
Speaker 3: But there are laws in states that trigger recounts if

1006
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 3: it is too close, right, if it is within a margin.

1007
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 3: So I have heard that, but I think it's important

1008
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 3: for people to understand that the margins of victory were

1009
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:52,479
Speaker 3: quite large in a lot of places, definitive, and that

1010
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:56,880
Speaker 3: there were fewer people that turned out for Kamala Harris

1011
00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 3: then turned out for Joe Biden, and there are a

1012
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:01,680
Speaker 3: range of reasons for that. It was easier to vote

1013
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 3: four years ago. Trump was in their face, he was

1014
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:06,239
Speaker 3: the sitting president. There are lots of things, as we've

1015
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 3: been discussing, but that's also just a reality of where

1016
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:11,440
Speaker 3: things sit right now.

1017
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 1: And looking forward. Jen, I know these are not your people,

1018
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:20,240
Speaker 1: but we've heard names that will be occupying very important

1019
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 1: roles in a future Trump administration. Susie Wiles, who was

1020
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:30,319
Speaker 1: so important to the Trump campaign, a least staphonic ambassador

1021
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 1: to the UN, Stephen Miller, Deputy chief of staff, the

1022
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 1: Immigration Customs Enforcement Director. You mentioned Tom Homan. He said,

1023
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 1: Nikki Haley and Mike Pompeio will not have a role,

1024
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:45,320
Speaker 1: but obviously RFK Junior and Elon Muss are going to

1025
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:49,799
Speaker 1: be pretty front and center in a Trump administration. So

1026
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:56,279
Speaker 1: this is the Maga takeover of the US. What do

1027
00:56:56,360 --> 00:57:01,280
Speaker 1: you expect of this new regime? If you will? Maybe

1028
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 1: Rashima's right.

1029
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:07,920
Speaker 3: You know I will. There are people a last Stephanic

1030
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:12,279
Speaker 3: was once kind of a rising star, moderate member of Congress,

1031
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:15,879
Speaker 3: and she became full Maga. I have not thought enough

1032
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 3: about what that means for her role as a UN ambassador,

1033
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:21,480
Speaker 3: although she has been a person who has been an

1034
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:24,920
Speaker 3: eager advocate of Trump's position on let nat Yaho do

1035
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 3: whatever na Yah who wants. But I think the two

1036
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 3: that stick out to me there the most art that

1037
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 3: I've just been thinking about today are Stephen Miller and

1038
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:39,880
Speaker 3: Tom Holman, in part because there's Trump loyalists returning, and

1039
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 3: loyalists to a greater degree than even we saw eight

1040
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 3: years ago. Now. To be fair, every president hires people

1041
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 3: who supports them, you know, who are like you are

1042
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:52,640
Speaker 3: grateful to be there. This is a different level of that, though,

1043
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:56,479
Speaker 3: because these are people who have shown this right, they're

1044
00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 3: not going to question the other thing that has stuck

1045
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 3: out to me. We're going to use this in the

1046
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 3: show tonight, But is Stephen Miller did this interview after

1047
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 3: in like twenty seventeen. I think it was where he

1048
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 3: talked about the perception her his view of power right

1049
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 3: and executive power, and a lot of these people, those

1050
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 3: two specifically who will be in charge play big roles

1051
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 3: on mass deportations and immigration policy, view executive power, the

1052
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 3: power of the presidency as all powerful and bigger than

1053
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 3: any other power. And that is the part that I

1054
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:33,160
Speaker 3: think will be quite telling. You've seen, like Tom Holman

1055
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:37,440
Speaker 3: basically has said for states that push back, I'm going

1056
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 3: to double up, you know, the number of people who

1057
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 3: come into their states and enforce. So I don't know

1058
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 3: how that manifests itself. But Trump's view of his own

1059
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 3: power of executive power, obviously he doesn't view equal branches

1060
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 3: of power, and how the people who he's hired view that,

1061
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:57,440
Speaker 3: I think is going to be part of the story

1062
00:58:57,520 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 3: we see in the first at least one I'll be watching.

1063
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:02,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's almost as if Stephen Miller is

1064
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's new Roy Khane.

1065
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:11,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, one who is who has quite a view

1066
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 3: of white supremacy in the world.

1067
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 1: Before we go, Jen, I want to end on a

1068
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 1: hopeful note. You have talked about the need for hope

1069
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:27,280
Speaker 1: despite everything and the fear that a lot of people have.

1070
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:29,800
Speaker 1: You know, let's be honest, there are people listening to

1071
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 1: this who are very excited about what's to come, maybe

1072
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 1: not every aspect, and maybe they'll be surprised. I guess

1073
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 1: it remains to be seen how much of Project twenty

1074
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 1: twenty five will actually be implemented if he is going

1075
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:46,000
Speaker 1: to get rid of the Department of Education, the National

1076
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 1: Weather Service, you know, got the Civil Service, and basically

1077
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:55,080
Speaker 1: replace those workers with people who pledge fealty to Donald Trump. Okay,

1078
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:59,640
Speaker 1: Having said that, you have said there's reason to not

1079
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 1: feel powerless because I think given all the factors, people

1080
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:07,280
Speaker 1: are like, well, what am I supposed to do? Yeah,

1081
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:09,959
Speaker 1: and I watched you either it was on your show.

1082
01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:12,480
Speaker 1: I think I saw it on Instagram actually, which is

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01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 1: where I get a lot of my experience.

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01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:16,440
Speaker 3: There. I go like America, Katie.

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01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 1: Where you talked about the sort of ebb and flow

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01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:25,400
Speaker 1: of political power and how things change. So I thought

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01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 1: maybe we'd end with you kind of talking about how

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01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:31,200
Speaker 1: history can be our guide on this.

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01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I will just reiterate one quick thing you said,

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01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:35,680
Speaker 3: which is I mean I'm not trying to be and

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01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 3: I said this, I think in the video or whatever,

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01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:39,360
Speaker 3: Woe may have been naive.

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01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 2: About Pollyanna, Pollyanna.

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01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:44,920
Speaker 3: Ish about what Trump says he wants to do, and

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01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 3: he will be successful in doing some of it, at

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01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:50,919
Speaker 3: least we'll see. We don't know yet, but I think

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01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 3: there is an evan flow of history. And you know,

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01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 3: I worked on the Carry campaign in two thousand and four,

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01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:58,960
Speaker 3: which obviously he lost to George W. Bush. And George W.

1100
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 3: Bush had brought the country into the war in Iraq,

1101
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:05,800
Speaker 3: something that was quite unpopular. That John Kerrey had been

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01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:09,240
Speaker 3: a decorated war veteran who ran against him, speaking out

1103
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:12,720
Speaker 3: against that, and on paper it felt like he would

1104
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:15,000
Speaker 3: be the right person to defeat him, and he obviously didn't.

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01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:17,160
Speaker 3: And it opened up this period of time, and you

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01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 3: remember this well, I'm sure where there was a lot

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01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 3: of speculation, not in a partisan way, certainly Republicans but

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01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 3: Democrats too, that maybe it was forever the Republican Party,

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01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 3: maybe the Republican Party and the Party of Bush was

1110
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:33,200
Speaker 3: the party of the foreseeable future, and it wasn't. In

1111
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:36,919
Speaker 3: part because when you're in office and you're governing you're

1112
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:39,560
Speaker 3: held to a different account. And in many ways, the

1113
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 3: country always looks for change and wants to hold to

1114
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 3: account the people who were in power, and that is

1115
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:46,520
Speaker 3: a part of the story of twenty twenty four to two.

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01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:48,920
Speaker 3: Two years later, of course, the Democrats won back the

1117
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:50,720
Speaker 3: House for the first time in over a decade. Nancy

1118
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:53,480
Speaker 3: Pelosi became the first Speaker of the House, and two

1119
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:56,320
Speaker 3: years after that, a guy with the middle name Hussain

1120
01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:59,920
Speaker 3: was elected to the presidency, someone who was not the

1121
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:03,880
Speaker 3: establishment candidate, and most people wouldn't have predicted. I mean,

1122
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:05,800
Speaker 3: people thought he was like a rising star, but I

1123
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:07,520
Speaker 3: don't think people would have predicted he would have been

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01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:11,440
Speaker 3: the nominee. So I share that because this is different.

1125
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:14,880
Speaker 3: Trump is different. George W. Bush Well obviously didn't vote

1126
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:17,440
Speaker 3: for It looks pretty great these days, you know, to me,

1127
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 3: but there are cyclical things. Accountability is a thing. People

1128
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:25,400
Speaker 3: do have power. I also talked about how the Affordable

1129
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 3: Care Act was something Trump ran planning to get rid of,

1130
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:33,040
Speaker 3: and because of activism, because people showed up at events,

1131
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:36,520
Speaker 3: because people said no, I want my healthcare. That didn't happen.

1132
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:39,080
Speaker 3: So I know people are exhausted. People should rest for

1133
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:42,720
Speaker 3: a minute or ten or twenty minutes. But the thing

1134
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:47,000
Speaker 3: about democracy is it's designed for people to have power,

1135
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:50,000
Speaker 3: including when you're in the opposition, and you know, once

1136
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 3: people are arrested. I hope people feel that well.

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01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 1: I love talking to you, Jen, thank you so much

1138
01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 1: to thank you me and spending so much time.

1139
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:00,520
Speaker 3: I love talking to you, I love talking well. Thank

1140
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 3: you so much, Katie, I really appreciate it.

1141
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:06,680
Speaker 1: And congratulations on your success and I'm always cheering you on.

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01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 3: Thank you.

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01:03:16,040 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me,

1144
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 1: a subject you want us to cover, or you want

1145
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:25,520
Speaker 1: to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world,

1146
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:26,439
Speaker 1: reach out.

1147
01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:27,520
Speaker 2: You can leave a.

1148
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:30,640
Speaker 1: Short message at six h nine five P one two

1149
01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:33,280
Speaker 1: five to five five, or you can send me a

1150
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:34,560
Speaker 1: DM on Instagram.

1151
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 2: I would love to hear from you.

1152
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:40,840
Speaker 1: Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Kuric Media.

1153
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:44,880
Speaker 1: The executive producers are Me, Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz.

1154
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:49,440
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz, and our producers are

1155
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:55,200
Speaker 1: Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian Weller composed our theme music.

1156
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:59,120
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1157
01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 1: for my newsletter wake Up Call, go to the description

1158
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:06,240
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1159
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:08,920
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1160
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:13,720
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1161
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:17,960
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Speaker 1: favorite shows.