1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Hi, This is new because of the coronavirus. I am 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: currently staying at home in Rome, where my wife serves 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 1: as the United States Ambassador of the Holy See. She's 4 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 1: leading the embassy in dealing with all the different changes 5 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: being brought about by the pandemic. To bring you this 6 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: episode this week, I'm recording from my home, so you 7 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: may notice a difference in audio quality on this episode 8 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: of News World. This episode is the second in a 9 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 1: series of episodes we're presenting about COVID nineteen healthcare breakers. 10 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: We're looking at innovations in science and medicine that will 11 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: help us improve patient outcomes until a vaccine or cured 12 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: it will be found. I came across a recommended treatment 13 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: for COVID nineteen patients that is to be administered in 14 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: the emergency room. The protocol calls for the improvenous administration 15 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: of a sorbic acid, vitamin C D you and me, 16 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: and cortico steroids starting in the emergency room and every 17 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: six hours thereafter well in the hospital. The physicians who 18 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: developed this protocol believe the mortality rate of COVID nineteen 19 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: and the need for mechanical ventilators will likely be greatly reduced. 20 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: Based on early experiences with this more aggressive approach, these 21 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 1: physicians predict early adoption of the protocol will reduce ICU admissions, 22 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: remove the need from mechanical ventilators, and most importantly saved 23 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:30,479 Speaker 1: many lives and pleased to welcome my guest, doctor Paul Merrick, 24 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: Professor of Medicine and Chief of Pulmonary and Critical Care 25 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: Medicine at Eastern Virginia Medical School in Norfolk, Virginia. Doctor 26 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: Merrick is also part of the front line COVID nineteen 27 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: Critical Care Consocial. This episode of our second in a 28 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: series where we're looking at COVID nineteen healthcare breakthroughs, and 29 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: we're looking at innovations and science and medicine that helps 30 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: us improve patient outcomes until we yet to get to 31 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: a vaccine or a cure. But our real focus right 32 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: now is on the whole notion of can we find 33 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: therapies they'll reduce the threat enough we can survive even 34 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: though we don't have a vaccine. The very first episode 35 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: we did was about convalescent plasma treatments and so doctor America, 36 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,399 Speaker 1: I want to start with your background. You're a real 37 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: focus on pulmonary care, and did you just describe briefly 38 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 1: what attracted you to this particular specialty and what your 39 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: work has been like. I work at the intensive K 40 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:44,679 Speaker 1: unit I mean intensivest. Basically, it's like internal medicine on steroids. 41 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: So we have the sickest patients, but we have the 42 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: technology and the infrastructure to provide the most intense care 43 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 1: which is physiologically based. And these are really very sick people. 44 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 1: And the reward is that these are people at high 45 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: risk of dying, and many of them we can actually 46 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: reverse their disease course and they can survive their ICUs day. 47 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: So obviously there are some patients who have overwhelming illness 48 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: and die, and in these patients our goal is to 49 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: allow them to die with comfort and dignity. But obviously 50 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: our goal is to try and save as many patients 51 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: as we can and restore them to a functional existence. 52 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: How we differ from emergency room physicians is that emergency 53 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: room physicians see the patients and then they move on 54 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: to a different setting. We look after these patients for 55 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: an extended period of time, so we see them when 56 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: they come in, we manage their course in the ICU, 57 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: and hopefully we see them leave the ICU. So we 58 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: have that continuity of care, which is really important. So 59 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: you know, we get to know the patient, we get 60 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: to know the family, and we're really able to provide personalized, 61 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: intense medical care to these people. You've joined with six 62 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: other people to create a Critical Care Consortium for dealing 63 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: with COVID nineteen. How did that come about? This is 64 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: a serious disease, and I think that there's a lot 65 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: of false information being spread at lightning speed. And we 66 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: were frustrated because we think we have a good handle, 67 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: We've developed a good handle on this disease, and our 68 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: voice wasn't being heard for all kinds of reasons. So 69 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: we thought we would come together and you collectively, our 70 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 1: voice would be alluded together than singly. And this is 71 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 1: really an important time where the truth matters. We need 72 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 1: to understand the disease and we need the best facts 73 00:04:55,720 --> 00:05:00,039 Speaker 1: we have. You've come up with the protocols. I understand it. 74 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: It takes two powerful therapies and combines them and is 75 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 1: applied immediately when they first get to the er, not 76 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: waiting around until they get truly from the edge of dying. 77 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: First of all, how did you all come up with 78 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: the therapy that could be applied this quickly. This is 79 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: an adaptation of a protocol which we've developed for the 80 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: treatment of sepsis. So in two thousand and sixteen twenty 81 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 1: seventeen we came up with a combination of quadico steroids 82 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: and vitamin C to treat sepsis. And what's happened is 83 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 1: we've adapted that protocol to COVID. You have to understand 84 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: the disease to treat the disease. It's an absolute fundamental concept. 85 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: You have to understand what you're treating, and COVID goes 86 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 1: through different phases. By the time the patients are sick 87 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: and come to hospital in the ICU, it's not the 88 00:05:56,320 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: virus that is killing them, it's the hosts in response. 89 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 1: And we believe this is such a fundamental concept that 90 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 1: people just haven't got their hands around. So it's not 91 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: actually the virus that's killing the patient. It's the patient's 92 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 1: response to the virus. And it's like a fire and 93 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: you need to put out the fire. The current approach 94 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 1: is to just support them and let the fire just 95 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 1: kind of burn itself out. The problem with that approach 96 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 1: is it kills the patient earlier on. They have this 97 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 1: viral replicator phase. But the time they get ready sick 98 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:40,119 Speaker 1: and come to hospital, they are ready suffering from this 99 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: immune storm or hyper immune phase, and you absolutely need 100 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: to treat them aggressively to dampen the storm. It's like 101 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 1: using fire extinguishers to put out the flames. So I 102 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: think it's a really important concept to understand that COVID 103 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: goes through different phases. Is that asymptomatic phase, the mildly 104 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: symptomatic phase, and then by the time the patient's become 105 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: really symptomatic and sick is due to the host response 106 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: to the virus. And we've known this really right from 107 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: the beginning, from the data coming out of China, and 108 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: people seem to have ignored it. I mean, the Chinese 109 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: have well described what's called the cytokine storm, which is 110 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: the profound immune response the host raises, and that's so 111 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: fundamental to treating these people. I understand the theory. So 112 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: how did that lead you then to the combination of 113 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: as orbit acid and cortical steroids. So we know in 114 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: bacterial steps as one has a similar path physiological process 115 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: that the host responds to bacteria by producing the inflammatory response. 116 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: It just so happens that COVID is a very unusual 117 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: virus and actually causes a very similar response to a 118 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: bacterial infection. Now, obviously we've had to modify and tweak 119 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: the protocol according to covid. So that was how this 120 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: concept originally came about in treating bacterial sepsis. And it 121 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: just so happens that in the later pungary phase of 122 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: covid it has similarities to bacterial sepsies. So you're saying that, 123 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: in a sense, it wasn't by delving deeper into the 124 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: treatment patterns for viral attacks, but it was by going sideways, 125 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: if you will, into a different zone where the immune 126 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 1: system's destructive response was exactly parallel, even though it wasn't 127 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: being caused by a virus. Absolutely, we have an immune 128 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: response whose function is to get rid of the invading pathogen, 129 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:06,559 Speaker 1: whether it be a bacteria or a virus. In some circumstances, 130 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: the immune response ready gets out of control. It's a 131 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: disregulated immune response, and the immune response is doing the 132 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: harm rather than the invading pathogen, which could be a 133 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: bacteria or a virus. Add fundamental concept in treating these people, 134 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: because you can give antibiotics which kill the bacteria but 135 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: unless you deal with this host response, the patients may 136 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: not improve. And the similar set of circumstances happens with covid. 137 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: One gets this profound immune dysregulation, and unless you deal 138 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:48,839 Speaker 1: with that dysregulation, the patients just aren't going to get better. 139 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: So really, part of your challenge from your professional colleague 140 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 1: maybe that you have brought a solution in from a 141 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: different system that doesn't necessarily fit how they think. Before 142 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: it was theoretical. We now actually have treated a whole 143 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: host of these patients and we absolutely know that it works. 144 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: I mean, it's no question of doubt. We have living 145 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: proof that our approach works and patients leave the ICU 146 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 1: and hospital alive. The number of reasons that we've got 147 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: such pushback. The first is we're using cortico steroids, and 148 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: the World Health Organization and the CDC have strongly recommended 149 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: not to use cordico steroids for reasons that are completely perplexing, 150 00:10:56,120 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: and I think because of that recommendation, clinations were reluctant 151 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 1: to use cortico steroids. What was the reasoning the World 152 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 1: Health Organization on the CDC on corticosteroids, What inside effects 153 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: that lead them to be against them. Yeah, so it's 154 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: somewhat unclear why. I think they're extrapolated from data from 155 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 1: the use of quetico steroids in influenza, where it may 156 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: be potentially harmful, but we don't know. In addition, there's 157 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: some very low level data from SAZ which suggested that 158 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: cordico steroids may not be beneficial, but actually a reevaluation 159 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: of that data actually suggests that with SAZ coudico steroids 160 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: may be of benefit. The fearworth using steroids was that 161 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 1: it would increase viral replication. We very clear about when 162 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: we suggest steroids. We certainly don't recommend it in the 163 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: early phase of the disease. At least eighty percent of 164 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: people are either asymptomatic or have mild infection. Clearly we 165 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 1: do not recommend to use queticosteroids at that time period. 166 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: That's a time period where you have active viral replication. 167 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: But by the time the patients come to a hospital 168 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 1: and particularly the ICU, they've moved on from that viral 169 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: replication phase to this hyper immune phase, and that's the 170 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: stage of the disease that we believe you need to 171 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: use quetico steroids. So I think that their recommendations are 172 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: somewhat misguided. On the other hand, they're big bureaucracies. So 173 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: turning them around as the challenge, people will say, well, 174 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,839 Speaker 1: who says don't use steroids or we're not going to 175 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: use steroids. But you know, on the other hand, we 176 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:55,839 Speaker 1: know from what's happened in Italy that people didn't use steroids. 177 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: Their approach initially was just to put them on a 178 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:02,959 Speaker 1: ventilator and the storm extinguish itself, and we know that 179 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: didn't work. We know that mortality was exceedingly high. The 180 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 1: information now coming from northern Italy is that they've actually 181 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: changed that approach and are now using qudico steroids. And 182 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 1: there are places around the world that actually have started 183 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: using steroids because they figured out what they were doing 184 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: wasn't working, so they had to do something different. One 185 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: of the things they could do was give steroids. And 186 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: the feedback that we're giving is that it's made an 187 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: enormous difference. So, you know, we're really comfortable and confident 188 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: that steroids, when used in the right setting, at the 189 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: right time, at the right dose, actually has a ready 190 00:13:44,520 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: important role to play. So that being true, what's the 191 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: role of the ascorbic acid vitamin C in combination, does 192 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: I gather it's the combination that you are pretty good 193 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: data are we are pretty good data from COVID right 194 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: now that vitamin C and critical steroids act synergistically and together. 195 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: So vitamin C or scorbic acid has really important anti 196 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: inflammatory properties and antioxidant properties. What may be worthwhile just 197 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: to consider just going back a few steps. So what 198 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: most people don't know is that humans and guinea pigs 199 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: are the only species on this planet that cannot make 200 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: vitamin C. We are mutants. We've lost the ability to 201 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: make vitamin C. So if you were a got or 202 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: a cow and you were stressed, what would have happen 203 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: is you would increase production of vitamin C. It's a 204 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: stress hormone. Humans have lost the ability to make vitamin 205 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: C and their vitamin C levels go down exceedingly low 206 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: when you stressed. Humans are deficient in this really important 207 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: stress hormode which has very important anti inflammatory and antioxidant properties. 208 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: It just so happens that corticosteroids and vitamin C a 209 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: very powerful anti inflammatory properties when given together. So basically 210 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: the problem in COVID once they come to hospital is 211 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: they have this profound inflammatory response which is completely out 212 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: of control. And then if you give them vitamin C 213 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: and steroids together, it dampens and puts out the fire. 214 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: It's a simple concept and we see it working every day. 215 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: By the way, do you have any idea of what 216 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: the evolutionary advantage was? That's a fascinating that I'm asked 217 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: all the time. So there must be some reason that 218 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: humans guinea pigs, there are a few old fish and 219 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: a few bats that just don't make vitamin C, and 220 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: the genetic defect is difference. It's not the same genetic mutation. 221 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: So what the evolutionary advantage is is not exactly quite clear. 222 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: It's somewhat perplexing, but it's just a fact of life, 223 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: and it's well described in the literature. Many people don't 224 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: realize this. So this is also why there's a broad 225 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: range of doctors who use vitamin C for a number 226 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: of different therapies, because it is enabling the patient to 227 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: deal with stress. You know, very often that's it's shrugged 228 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: off as some kind of homeopathic or other kind of 229 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: non scientific stuff. Well, you're describing is actually a very 230 00:16:55,640 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: specific response to a genetic weakness peculiar to humans. We're 231 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 1: using it in a specific situation and a specific dose 232 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 1: in a specific way of administration. So this is a 233 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 1: very narrow indication. The problem is that there are people 234 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 1: out there who are using intravenous vitamin C for absolutely 235 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: every kind of disorder known to mankind, and I think 236 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: that undermines this scientific basis and integrity that we have, 237 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: particularly giving it intravenously. So when you credit the yel 238 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: you have in order to restore adequate blood levels, you 239 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 1: have to give it intravenously. When you have a critical patient, 240 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: then you're producing a cortail that's both the cortical steroids 241 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 1: and the vitaminc blended together. Or are you giving them separately. 242 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 1: We give them at the same time. Unfortunately, not sure 243 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 1: about the compatibility in the same solution, so they're being 244 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: atmost as separately but at the same time. Now, how 245 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: many patients have you used this on? So in terms 246 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 1: of sepsis, so that predated COVID, we've treated about sixteen 247 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: hundred patients with sepsis and we absolutely convinced that this 248 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: changes the trajectory of the disease. The caveat though, is 249 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: it has to be used early. So timing is really important. 250 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: Sepsis is a very time sensitive disease, so there are 251 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,919 Speaker 1: a number of studies in which they gave the vitamincy really, really, 252 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: really late, so you know, when you're on the door 253 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 1: steps of death and you give an intervention, it is 254 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 1: less likely to influence outcome. So in sepsis, the timing 255 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,120 Speaker 1: is really important. Now actually, when it comes to COVID, 256 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: the timing is also very important that I think there's 257 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: a narrow window when you want to give this therapy. 258 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 1: You don't want to give it too early and you 259 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 1: don't want to give it too late. So there's a 260 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: very narrow time window where we believe that this has 261 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: an optimal effect. Yeah, how many patients with coronavirus have 262 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: you treated using this approach? We've treated here at our 263 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 1: hospital about twenty five to thirty. I have a colleague 264 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 1: in Houston who's using the same protocol. He's treated about 265 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: thirty as well. We have not had a single patient 266 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 1: who's died of COVID, so that's truly astonishing. COVID is 267 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: a very strange disease. We've had a few patients who 268 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: presented to us after having a pomera embulance at home 269 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: and having a cordiac arrest. So one of the things 270 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: COVID does is that causes a hypercagulable state. The body clots. 271 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,640 Speaker 1: So one of the complications is these patients have massive 272 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,640 Speaker 1: Pomera emboli. So we have had two patients who presented 273 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: to us after having a cordiac arrest. One of them 274 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 1: died and one is slyin ICU. So I wouldn't really 275 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: consider that a failure of treatment. It's just the patient 276 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: presented they were unsalvagable. But otherwise our protocol seems to 277 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:12,880 Speaker 1: be working. COVID is a really strange disease. It's not 278 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: like anything we've ever seen. Patients come in with bacterial pneumonia, 279 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: we treat them, they tend to get better pretty quickly. 280 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,440 Speaker 1: COVID is a pesky disease. These people don't turn around 281 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 1: very quickly. So while there are improving, it does take 282 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: some time. You know an idea how many doctors are 283 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: currently using this therapy. I think it's becoming more and 284 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: more prevalent. I think folks have realized that what they 285 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: were doing before just wasn't working, and by keep on 286 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 1: going down the same path is not going to change anything. 287 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 1: So I know there are institutions across the country that 288 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: are considering using steroids. Some of them have added steroids 289 00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 1: to their treatment protocol. In terms of ascorbic acid, there 290 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: has been some pushback, just because I think there's a 291 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: lot of misinformation and misunderstanding about what vitamin C does 292 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: and how it works. We're using this based on the 293 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,160 Speaker 1: best science. This is not you know, snake oil medicine 294 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: or herbalist medicine. When your team presents this to other 295 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: doctors and says, look, this might actually save lives, what's 296 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: their reaction. The Chinese came out with a treatment protocol 297 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 1: which was endorsed by the Chinese government, and they have 298 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 1: vitamin C is one of the important treatment interventions, and 299 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,959 Speaker 1: for reasons that are unclear, the rest of the world 300 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: has kind of ignored their experience. So the problem is 301 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: we do get pushback. People think that it's too simple, 302 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: it just doesn't make sense. I don't think they've explored 303 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 1: the enormous path of physiology and basics science. So in 304 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 1: terms of sepsis, they're probably over six hundred basic science 305 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,120 Speaker 1: studies that have explored the use of vitamin C. This 306 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: is not something that we kind of pulled out of 307 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: thin air. It's supported by an enormous body of scientific data, 308 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,400 Speaker 1: which I think people are not aware of, so they're 309 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 1: very quick to criticize something they don't really understand that. Well, 310 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: I'm very struck that we haven't put a lot of 311 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,640 Speaker 1: attention on a vaccine, which if we can get to one, 312 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: when to be approved for a year and a half. Well, 313 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 1: we need right now are therapies to save lives in 314 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: the next six months. First of all, we don't know 315 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: if vaccines will be effective, and if they are effective, 316 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: we're looking at eighteen months, so it's not going to 317 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: solve the issue now. The focus now should be on 318 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: treating these people who are dying. So the discussion is 319 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: completely misplaced. People are dying by the hundreds and thousands 320 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: every day, and the focus should be on what can 321 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: we do to prevent these folks from dying. We think 322 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: we have an approach which works. We need more people 323 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: to do it and try it. There's certainly nothing to lose. 324 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 1: We think that that's safe and effective, and I think 325 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: we need more people to consider this treatment approach. Well, 326 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: you've done today that's really helpful is you've given us 327 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: an understanding of a frame of reference as to why 328 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:34,400 Speaker 1: the mechanism works, so people understand there may be breakthrough 329 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 1: therapies that are going to really change the whole game, 330 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 1: and this could be one of those breakthroughs. What you 331 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 1: say is absolutely true. You know people are dying now. 332 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: We need to look for treatments we can offer them now. 333 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 1: There may be magic bullets that come down the road 334 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 1: in the future, but we can't beat on them. We 335 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: believe that our protocol is based on really good science 336 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,679 Speaker 1: and there's enormous amount of scientific background to support it. 337 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,399 Speaker 1: I think that obviously flattening the curve and developing a 338 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: vaccines important, but what's more important is treating all the 339 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,679 Speaker 1: people who are sick. Now I'm going to die. This 340 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: is very very helpful, very much encouraged by talking with you. 341 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: Thanks all. Thank you to my guest with doctor Paul Merrick. 342 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: You can read more about his recommended COVID nineteen treatment 343 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 1: protocol on our show page at newtsworld dot com. Newts 344 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: World is produced by Gingish three sixty and Iheartmedium, our 345 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: executive producers Debbie Myers and our producers Garsistant. The artwork 346 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,159 Speaker 1: for the show was created by Steve Pender Special thanks 347 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 1: to the team at Gingerish three sixty. Please email move 348 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,400 Speaker 1: with your comments at new at newtsworld dot com. If 349 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple 350 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 1: Podcasts and both rate us with five stars and give 351 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: us a review so others can learn what it's all about. 352 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: In the next episode of NICs World, state governors and 353 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: leaders of local municipalities are trying to slow the spread 354 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: of COVID nineteen, but many of these elected officials are 355 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: using COVID nineteen to put orders into place. They make 356 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: absolutely no sense, and some that even oppose are constitutional 357 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 1: rights as Americans who will look at these insane orders 358 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: around the country On the next episode, I'm new Gingwich. 359 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:28,919 Speaker 1: This is news World.