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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to coast am on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back one of our faves, Nick Pope

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Speaker 1: with US author journalists, British government UFO investigator. Nick ran

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Speaker 1: the British government's UFO project at the Ministry of Defense.

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Speaker 1: He is now recognized as one of the world's leading

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Speaker 1: authorities by far on UFOs, the Unexplained. He's acted as

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Speaker 1: a consultant on various alien themed movies, television shows, even

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Speaker 1: video games, and as a regular contributor to numerous TV programs,

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Speaker 1: including of course Ancient Aliens. Nick, always a pleasure to

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Speaker 1: talk to you, my friend. Thank you. It's great to

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Speaker 1: be banks on the show. I want to get your

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Speaker 1: reaction to our buddy Richard Dolan, who has been on

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Speaker 1: YouTube recently talking about fifteen documents that he has obtained

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Speaker 1: that had to do with a former Admiral and Admiral

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Speaker 1: Wilson about UFOs. Are you hearing about that in the

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Speaker 1: UFO community? Now? Nick, I know Jimmy Church when he's

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Speaker 1: going to be on for me on a Sunday June thirtieth,

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Speaker 1: is going to do his show on that. But what

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Speaker 1: are you hearing? Yes, I'm following this with interest. I

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Speaker 1: believe it's not the first time that alliations like this

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Speaker 1: have been doing the rounds. And certainly, of course it's

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Speaker 1: interesting because Admiral Wilson was, amongst other things, director of

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Speaker 1: the Defense Intelligence Agency. Now, of course it's we learn

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Speaker 1: that it was all along the DA, not the CIA

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Speaker 1: DA who was running the Pentagon's A tip program. So

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Speaker 1: there's an interesting connection there. But these rumors have been

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Speaker 1: around for a while. I've seen some of these documents.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of the key players have yet

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Speaker 1: to comment on this. I'm following it with interest, but

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Speaker 1: I think it's a little bit too soon to jump

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Speaker 1: on this. As I say, I mean, this has been

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Speaker 1: around for a while, these rumors, and I believe that

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Speaker 1: when he was alive, doctor edgar Mitchell even got involved

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Speaker 1: in this, commented, So there are some material out there.

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Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, it's it's always good to be cautious

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Speaker 1: on these things, not to jump in too quickly, but

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Speaker 1: absolutely watch this space. This is a hot developing story.

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Speaker 1: Have these documents to your knowledge been authenticated yet No,

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Speaker 1: not yet. And unlike of course some of the other

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Speaker 1: documents that maybe we'll discuss in relation to the a

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Speaker 1: tip program. We haven't got someone like Senator Harry Reid

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Speaker 1: saying Yep, this is real. I wrote that absolutely. In fact,

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Speaker 1: quite the opposite. I believe that some years ago the

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Speaker 1: Admiral denied any UFO connection. And so yeah, we're we're

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Speaker 1: not anywhere near the situation with this being authenticated. Nick.

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Speaker 1: If these documents are not the real deal. If they're

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Speaker 1: not the real deal, and again, like you said, they

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Speaker 1: we have not tested them yet, nobody knows for sure.

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Speaker 1: Dolan believes they're real, by the way, but who would

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Speaker 1: go to the trouble to come up with all these

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Speaker 1: false documents if they were? Well, I think there is

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Speaker 1: a huge culture of practical joking that that's what I thought.

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Speaker 1: It's out there, isn't there. Yeah, And I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of this, sad to say, plays on the absolute

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Speaker 1: I want to believe mentality of many people in the

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Speaker 1: UFO community. So I think sometimes people are constructing things

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Speaker 1: that they know. I mean, it's very carefully crafted sometimes

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Speaker 1: to fit in exactly with people's belief systems. So in

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Speaker 1: a sense, you're giving people exactly what they want. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's that's very pointed too. Now let's get into some

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Speaker 1: of the things you've been working on lately. What are

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Speaker 1: your projects, Nick, Well, lots going on. Obviously, the big

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Speaker 1: thing is the still unfolding story of the Pentagon's A

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Speaker 1: TIP program and the US Navy encounters. I'm keeping as

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Speaker 1: on top of this as I can. I've I've obviously

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Speaker 1: I've done a number of things in the past few

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Speaker 1: months directly related to this. I was the first person

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Speaker 1: to obtain and publish, for example, the Defense intelligence agencies

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Speaker 1: later to Congress about this program, which cleared up a

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Speaker 1: lot of the confusion. But I think the big news

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Speaker 1: in the last couple of weeks is that, of course,

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Speaker 1: for a while now, we've been debating this question, are

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Speaker 1: we really talking about UFOs in the sense that the

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Speaker 1: media and in in the public seen it, or are we

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Speaker 1: talking about next generation aviation threats or both. Yes, there's

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Speaker 1: a blurring of the lines, and in some cases, I

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Speaker 1: have to say to you, I think that that blurring

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Speaker 1: of the lines is quite a deliberate tactic. But I

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Speaker 1: think up until a couple of weeks ago, the skeptics

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Speaker 1: were able to say with some degree of authority, come on,

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Speaker 1: this is probably just errorspace threats from the present out

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Speaker 1: to the next forty years, and of course we should

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Speaker 1: be concerned about what Russia and China have, and maybe

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Speaker 1: it's even part of our own government's black projects. But

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Speaker 1: on May twenty second, the New York Post published this

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Speaker 1: article where the Navy, the US Navy absolutely went onto

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Speaker 1: the record and said, we are talking about unidentified aerial phenomena,

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Speaker 1: and that, of course is the recognized intelligence community, military

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Speaker 1: and government phrase for UFOs. I gotta tell you too, Nick,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about, of course, a TIP and what's going

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Speaker 1: on there, which stands for advancer or Space Threat Identification Program.

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Speaker 1: And that came out about what two years ago? Would

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Speaker 1: you say? Yeah, it was December sixteenth, twenty seventeen, New

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Speaker 1: York Times, mostly followed by the Washington Post and Politico,

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Speaker 1: So it's it's been out for a while. But you know,

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Speaker 1: it's still amazing to me how little paperwork we have

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Speaker 1: about this. We have, which I mentioned a little earlier,

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Speaker 1: we have the DA's letter to Congress about this. We

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Speaker 1: have the contractual solicitation documents. We have Harry Reid's letter

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Speaker 1: to the Deputy Defense Secretary that he wrote in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and nine. But frankly, we haven't got much else.

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Speaker 1: Apart from that, No, we really haven't. But are you

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Speaker 1: expecting anything new to break from that? Yes, very much so.

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Speaker 1: A couple of things to watch. Firstly, right back from

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Speaker 1: when The New York Times first broke this story, dozens,

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Speaker 1: if not hundreds, of Freedom Pardon Freedom of Information Act

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Speaker 1: requests went into the system. Some of them came back

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Speaker 1: with no records, some of them came back with holding replies,

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Speaker 1: but they've not gone away, so we're going to get

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Speaker 1: a lot more through that over the next few months.

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Speaker 1: The other thing is, of course History Channel are showing

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Speaker 1: this new TV series are identified and I think that

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Speaker 1: some of the people involved with that have signed nondisclosure agreements.

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Speaker 1: But once these episodes have aired, I think we're going

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Speaker 1: to hear more from some of the pilots involved, more

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Speaker 1: from some of the former intelligence community personnel involved. So

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Speaker 1: there's definitely more to come. All right, let's talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about the Navy and what's going on in

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Speaker 1: that arena. When you kicked around the idea that maybe

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Speaker 1: it's ours, maybe it's extraterrestrial, who knows, there's one thing

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Speaker 1: that we do know. Navy jet fighter pilots came upon

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Speaker 1: a couple objects that they could not catch, and they

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Speaker 1: had no idea what they were. That we know for sure,

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Speaker 1: don't we? Yes, yes we do. And the Navy have

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Speaker 1: been quite fourth right in their statements about this. They

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Speaker 1: have talked about unauthorized incursions into restricted military areas and airspace,

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Speaker 1: and the language that they've used is really quite bullish.

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Speaker 1: They say, as a matter of urgency, we need to

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Speaker 1: find out who is doing this and take action to

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Speaker 1: prevent it. And this of course is the language of

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Speaker 1: well practically of conflict. Well that could be now we

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Speaker 1: did not fire on them. What does that tell you? Well,

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Speaker 1: I think it would be crazy to do something like

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Speaker 1: that until we know what we're dealing with. I mean,

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Speaker 1: is it our own tach, is it Russia, or is

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Speaker 1: it China? Is it something else? As they say, considerably

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Speaker 1: further afield in any of those events, we shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: shooting now. I can't obviously get into detailed discussions about

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Speaker 1: rules of engagement because they tend to be highly classified,

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Speaker 1: as you know, But to say, I think it's it's

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Speaker 1: a question what we need to do is gather information,

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Speaker 1: not actually engage with weapons. Here. What does your gut

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Speaker 1: tell you? What the Navy fighter pilots might have seen.

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Speaker 1: You know, I really don't know. I mean, but there

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Speaker 1: are there are very few options, and I think we've

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Speaker 1: we've pretty much covered all the bases. It is either, frankly,

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Speaker 1: there's about four options. Either this is some extraordinary sequence

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Speaker 1: of misperceptions by witnesses, radar glitches forward looking in for

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Speaker 1: a red errors and things, and none of this is

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Speaker 1: real in a physical sense. I think that's highly unlikely.

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Speaker 1: And the Navy statements pretty much saying you know, these

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Speaker 1: these are intusions. I mean that the Navy obviously have

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Speaker 1: done detailed analyses of this. There will be lots of

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Speaker 1: data out there that they're working from that they've not

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Speaker 1: yet a public so I think we can almost certainly

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Speaker 1: take that off the table. That just leaves three options.

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Speaker 1: I think it's either a foreign military hour, which which

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Speaker 1: should scare the living daylights on of us. If that's

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Speaker 1: the case, absolutely, If Russia or China have developed something

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Speaker 1: like this that frankly would represent quantum leap in aerospace technology,

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Speaker 1: then we are in a desperate situation because frankly, our

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Speaker 1: entire defense networks has been virtually rendered useless by this.

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Speaker 1: I mean, whatever this is seems to be able to

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Speaker 1: run rings around US, so that would be of and

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Speaker 1: whether it's Russia, China or some other non state act, frankly,

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Speaker 1: see who that would be. So that's a scary option,

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Speaker 1: I guess the least scary option, but it's still worrying,

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Speaker 1: and it would be an absolute scandal. Is if it

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Speaker 1: is another part of the US military or right the

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Speaker 1: industrial they've kept secret. Yeah, black project somehow being being

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Speaker 1: tested against the fleet. Maybe the Air Force is secretly

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Speaker 1: testing something against the Navy, and maybe this all ties

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Speaker 1: in with inter service rivalry and things. I think it's

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Speaker 1: unlikely because frankly, I think they would have found out.

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Speaker 1: Somebody would have said something. Even if they didn't disclose

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Speaker 1: the details of the programs themselves because of classification, someone

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Speaker 1: would simply have said, look, this is us. Just don't

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Speaker 1: make waves about this. I mean, the last thing anyone

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Speaker 1: wants is this getting highlighted in the media the way

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Speaker 1: that's happening. If it's a black project, you want to

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Speaker 1: keep those sorts of things in the shadows. And so

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Speaker 1: if you take that off the table, really we're only

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Speaker 1: then left with the other option that think the unthinkable.

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Speaker 1: Could it be extraterrestrial. Well, that's also possible too, so

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Speaker 1: it could be any one of those three. I would

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Speaker 1: doubt if it's Russian or Chinese because I don't think

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Speaker 1: they would be in our airspace directly at this point.

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Speaker 1: I think they probably want to keep it more secret,

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Speaker 1: don't you. Yes, absolutely, And I think that that we

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Speaker 1: see I mean, we know what Russian incursions look like.

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Speaker 1: I mean, as a bread for example, we see it

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Speaker 1: all the time. I mean they're doing it now with

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Speaker 1: their own planes getting close to ours. Yeah, that's the

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Speaker 1: sort of way it goes. And we saw the incident

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Speaker 1: in the East China Sea just a few days ago

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Speaker 1: with the two Navy ships or almost colliding. But it's

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Speaker 1: it's that sort of situation. It's not it's it's not

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Speaker 1: sending drone swarms, which frankly is what we're doing with here.

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Speaker 1: I mean, remember the voiceover from the pilot on one

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Speaker 1: of the videos where he says there's a whole fleet

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Speaker 1: of them. I mean, this is scary, staff. If this

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Speaker 1: sort of tech is being used and flying against our fleet, now,

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Speaker 1: I would hope that, if it's not extraterrestrial, it's ours,

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Speaker 1: weren't you, Yes, it's it's the least scary of all

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Speaker 1: the options. It's still there would be a huge political scandal,

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Speaker 1: but frankly, the other options are almost unthinkable in terms

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Speaker 1: of the consequences. Now, the Pentagon in the Navy apparently

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Speaker 1: have you generated new reporting requirements for its pilots. What

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Speaker 1: would have been the spearhead for that, Well, the Navy

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Speaker 1: statements make it very clear that since and they even

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Speaker 1: give a date for it. They say since two thousand

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Speaker 1: and fourteen, there has been a dramatic up surge in

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Speaker 1: the number of these unauthorized incursions. And that's interesting because,

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Speaker 1: of course, when we talk about some of these Navy

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Speaker 1: videos we've seen, most of what's been discussed is back

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and four the ussnmits incident, and we

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Speaker 1: have the pilot on the record, we have one of

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Speaker 1: the radar operators on the record. In fact, just in

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Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks we've gone from two people

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Speaker 1: being on the record to about five on the record.

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Speaker 1: So that's an interesting recent development too. But yeah, the

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Speaker 1: Navy have basically said it's this dramatic up surge since

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Speaker 1: the two and fourteen and therefore, as part of this

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Speaker 1: effort to find out who the hecks doing this and

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Speaker 1: stop them. They need more data, and they're not going

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Speaker 1: to get more data if their pilots are reluctant to

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Speaker 1: come forward and report, which they do. So part of

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Speaker 1: what the Navy are doing is aimed at destigmatizing all

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Speaker 1: this and encouraging their own people to come forward and

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Speaker 1: speak out and get this on the record. In the

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Speaker 1: forties and fifties, Nick the Meat kind of handled UFO

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Speaker 1: stories pretty aggressively and they didn't make fun of most

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Speaker 1: of the people. Then between the sixties, seventies, eighties, and

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Speaker 1: nineties two thousands, the media, I think thought of UFOL

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Speaker 1: cases as being hysterical jokes. Now they seem to be

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Speaker 1: taking it a little more seriously. Again, what's creating that turnaround? Well,

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Speaker 1: I think it's events led. There's no getting away from

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Speaker 1: the fact that these things aren't going on in our space.

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Speaker 1: And I think the other thing is the tech is

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Speaker 1: getting so much better. And when I say the tech,

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Speaker 1: I'm here, I am talking about our tech. If this

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Speaker 1: was back in the fifties, the sorts of incidents you mention,

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Speaker 1: I think very often the pilot would come back with

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Speaker 1: a story and there would be some radar data, but

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Speaker 1: it would be inconclusive. Nowadays, with the modern technology, I

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Speaker 1: think what we have is a situation where the pilots

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Speaker 1: do come forward, there's a whole raft of data that

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Speaker 1: the military will have validating that. Now, this won't be

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Speaker 1: made public, but obviously it will be there, and there

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Speaker 1: will be lots of in depth analysis that can be done.

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Speaker 1: And as I say, I very much doubt the public

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Speaker 1: will see much of that. But but this is this

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Speaker 1: is I think what's taken it to the next level

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Speaker 1: the fact that our own monitoring equipment, whether it's radar,

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Speaker 1: satellites or other areas of data gathering, is now so

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Speaker 1: sophisticated that we are able to track things that previously

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Speaker 1: might have escaped our notice. And where does this fit,

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Speaker 1: Nick Pulp, Because you're a journalist. Well, it's a tricky

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Speaker 1: one because I wear two hats, so to speak. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I wear my my ex government hat. And they talk

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Speaker 1: to a number of people, I guess through bank channels

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Speaker 1: about this now and they trust you hopefully. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think some of the UFO community, of course, think

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Speaker 1: I'm still secretly working for the government, and I do.

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Speaker 1: That's not true. But obviously I do have friends and

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Speaker 1: colleagues there and itself. Evidently we discussed this, this sort

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Speaker 1: of thing. It would be crazy not to, so I

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Speaker 1: wear that hat. But yes, I also work as a

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Speaker 1: broadcaster and journalist, and clearly within the confines of secrecy,

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Speaker 1: oaths and the desire not to divulge anything that would

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Speaker 1: be classified or sensitive, I obviously do want to play

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Speaker 1: a part in in driving this story forward. Listen to

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Speaker 1: more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at one am Eastern,

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Speaker 1: and go to Coast to Coast am dot com for

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Speaker 1: more