00:00:17 Speaker 1: Pushkin, JJ Martin vibrates at the highest frequency. After almost twenty five years in Milan, where she built her reputation as a roving fashion reporter, street style sensation, and now as the founder of the maximalist and incredibly successful fashion brand, The Double J. She's just opened her flagship store on the Upper East Side of Manhattan, five full floors and right around the corner from where we are right now. When JJ travels, she isn't actually spotting trends, but instead moving through a realm rarely associated with fashion. Instead, she's exploring sacred spaces, ancient traditions, and spiritual practices. But in my experience, it's always a mistake to dismiss JJ as a wellness guru or particularly woo woo, because once you embrace her energetic pursuit of the energetically charged, you just can't help but be energized to So in this chat, we sit under waterfalls in Bali, go to the edge of volcanoes in Sicily, retreat to caves and Cappadodgia, and hang together from the branches of a tree. Here's my conversation with my friend JJ Muttin. JJ, welcome, Hi, Davi. This is the final episode of season one, and actually I thought that you might be in season two or season three when we have an opportunity to go to somewhere else or be in Milan, where we both or at least I live half the time and you live full time. But as with everything with us, fate intervened always, and something happened. A block and a half from here, A lighthouse appeared off Madison Avenue, a five story lighthouse, which is your flagship store, not only in the United States but globally, and you just opened us. Congratulations, Thank you so much. 00:02:11 Speaker 2: I mean, you and I are always synchronized in this way, and it's beautiful to see and this I did have to blink a few times as I was standing outside and look at five stories of Upper East Side, which I never imagined would ever ever happen. But it's magnificent and I feel so grateful, and it feels like things are shining within and without in so many ways, so it's great. 00:02:37 Speaker 1: Maybe we can start with you moving to Milan, how many years ago, twenty twenty. 00:02:43 Speaker 2: Four, well actually twenty five this August, and you move there for love, I move there for love, and station or I stayed for work. 00:02:52 Speaker 1: So we have a not dissimilar background in the sense that we were both writers, reporters, editors for newspapers and magazines, but you really started working for which wallpaper. 00:03:06 Speaker 2: First job was bottom of the Barrel media world, the world's first online fashion news service, which was Fashion Maura Daily. Then got hired to write for the International Herald Tribune, which was sort of like my big break. And that's when I got hired by Harper's Bazar and really developed a family of women in fashion writing and media that I'm still friends with to this day. And it was really funny because at the time, you know, Harper's Bazaar was always second fiddle. I would say there was no argument in that to American Vogue. And it's really interesting about being I wouldn't say the underdog, but sort of not in the champions league level all the time. It just the grit creates so much more depth and hard working mentality and your ability to really go out and launch yourself because so few things are actually handed to you on a plate. And all of us who worked under Glenda, I would say we all kind of developed that real hard working mentality, which isn't to say that at other magazines, they don't. I just meant that, like there was this real idea that we had to go the extra mile in order to get that scoop or to get that access. 00:04:22 Speaker 1: But then you sort of kind of came from like out of the words land, kind of behind the magazine, behind the newspaper when street style blogging kind of started, right, which like people don't remember that, right, you know. 00:04:39 Speaker 2: It was nuts and the Japanese, the Japanese magazines invented that. They sent their photographers over and I think this was before the advent of Instagram, and it was this nutty thing where we would all get swarmed by these Japanese photographers were really funny, so we were big in Japan. 00:04:54 Speaker 1: It's exciting, But I also think of like harp as bizarre, as being way more kind of directional, not bright patterns. Maximalism, which has always been your style and which I think, how would we describe the the double Ja your brands style. 00:05:12 Speaker 2: It's definitely maximal, it's definitely joyful, it's definitely colorful, but people don't realize we also do like ten variations on a white shirt, so we've broadened beyond that. But I've always lived in both worlds. Everywhere I've been so I used to work at Calvin Klein. There wasn't a single color anywhere, including the yellow sticky pads. They were white. So I've had like a lot of duality in my life. I grew up in a family of surfers, volleyball players. My dad was a hunter fisherman. We did a lot of scrappy things, and then my mom was very like debutante. So there was a lot of ins and outs of many different worlds. Yeah, I wear black now too, every once in a long time, sometimes rarely. 00:05:54 Speaker 1: One time you were being interviewed, well in terms of color, I was at the V and I where you were being interviewed for I think your book Mama Milano, And it just so happened again in this symbiosis thing that we were staying. 00:06:07 Speaker 2: That you just happened to be there, no no. 00:06:09 Speaker 1: Well, in hotel rooms next to each other, completely, completely randomly. I just so happened that I had a few hours spare, and I was like, Okay, well I'm going to come with you to see the talk. And aside from the fact that I was sitting in the audience and you pointed at me and said, that's my friend da V mister beige, which I resent actually, But one thing that you said to me, when you said during the talk, one of your you know, customers or fans, let's say, got up and said, you know, what is it about color? And what would you say to people that don't want to wear color? And you said you looked her dead in the eye, And I wonder if you remember what you said. 00:06:52 Speaker 2: This comes up so often that people who have an aversion to color worn on themselves typically have a difficult relationship with being seen from the outside world. They don't really want to stand out. When you're wearing a lot of color, when you're wearing a lot of print, people will notice, people will look at you, people will point. And I think what's been amazing about this company in this journey is that, yes, it's about maximalism and color and pattern, but it's truly about this mission that I call raise your Vibration, and really that's about your radiance, like allowing you to be in touch with your radiance, feel your radiance, and show it to the world. And there's so many different ways that you can do that. And it's obviously not just shopping, and it's not just color. There's so many different ways, and it's that's what I'm really into. To be perfectly honest. 00:07:47 Speaker 1: Are the clothes I get a trojan holes for a bigger idea? Essentially? 00:07:51 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I feel like they are. You and I have talked about this so much. I mean, that's why we have the Lighthouse in New York, and it's why we have the Star Quarters in Milan with these temple spaces. So on the roof of our offices, on the top of this store, we've got a temple space where we're bringing in people who know about energy frequency and different ways to help people connect into that to clear that. That's what I'm probably the most excited about. And even though, of course my business partner, who also happens to be my ex husband, is always like, do we really need to be paying for this space like right off the mass and now? And he's like, can't that be a store space? But it does feel like in a way, they feed each other, and I know that they feed me. So that's what I'm doing. 00:08:43 Speaker 1: You know, I don't think I've ever told you this, but the first time that not when we met, but the first time I heard of you or you kind of came somewhere in my periphery and then I remembered it years and years later, actually relatively recently. You know, I used to go to Milan quite often because it lived in the countryside and that's where the clubs were, and used to go on the weekend and so Plastic. 00:09:06 Speaker 2: I feel like you knew about Plustic than I before I did. 00:09:08 Speaker 1: And you know, now I have a lot of mutual friends that work in fashion world. But yeah, I was at kind of agriculture and food school, so I wasn't in that world. But I do remember, you know, the Californian, the Californiana about you, because it was this moment, you know, Milan when you crack it is very warm and in fide dish it's the best, but it can be very cold and closed and those doors are closed to you until you kind of push them open, ever so slightly. And I remember, I remember, like, you know, people weren't necessarily that kind to you in the beginning. 00:09:49 Speaker 2: No, also, it's not that they were not it's not that they were mean. It was just more that they didn't give a shit and there was no interest level and there was very little access the Italians. It takes a long time to get to know an Italian, and once you do, it's a friend for life. This is like the exact opposite of someone in America. You get to know in twenty seconds at the coffee counter, but then you know it. Then you know, friendships sort of come and go much easier, I feel like in America, whereas this is what I noticed so much about the difference between New York and Milan. All the energy that I put into New York, I felt was like depleting me all of the time, and energy I put into Italy came back to like feed an enormous garden for me. 00:10:34 Speaker 1: Well, this is what I was going to get at, is like, you know, Milanese typically are not skeptical, but they definitely, you know, aren't the first embracing of spiritual modalities. You know, it may have changed now in a way. So the reason I asked about the clothes being kind of a vehicle for something else is like, how do you deal with the skepticism of spirituality? Yeah, like as you being an advocate for that, because that certainly exists, right, It's less so in Milan now because it's coming from a very pure place. And I always think of you as a California cheerleader in a what I really am, in a very genuine way. 00:11:15 Speaker 2: I love California, but I also love Milana. Had to cheerlead for Milan all those years that everyone hated Milana, no one wanted to come for the fashion show, but I would say there's I wrote a biography for myself, my spiritual biography, that says something like she's a spiritual normalizer, which basically is like, I think I can be a good bridge between the wo woo and like regular people because I myself lived through all of that. So I was on that other side of like a very go go type a you know, grew up in California, but was always like on a path and very rigorous. I was a competitive gymnast for many years. I went to Berkeley. I don't think I ever took a summer off. Ever, I don't think I ever really took any time off. So there was so and I had a couple of life crunches big time. My dad died when I was in college. I went through a really big depression that I went through a real challenging infertility while I was in Italy, and that's what kicked off my spiritual practice. That was probably like in twenty thirteen, and then I started really getting into all these energy healers and teachers, and I felt like also having had the journalism background gave me the ability to talk to people. And every time I went to go see a healer, I would interview them. That's why I have all the That's why i have all the stories in the in the bank, and I've got all these like hilarious stories. I would write an article basically every time I went to go see someone. What I've learned is that you don't want to go ever, go and try to convince someone to get a quote unquote spiritual practice. What you want to do is just make someone feel good, right however that you know, so it's not about talking about it. It's about saying, Hey, I've got a group gathered, do you want to come and get some sound next week? And then suddenly they're laying in a sound bathroom. They're like, holy shit, what was that? Like? What just happened to me? I completely floated out of my body. Hey, I'm kind of into sound. What is sound? 00:13:13 Speaker 1: Oh? Wait? 00:13:14 Speaker 2: Frequency. Oh so it let them discover the breadcrumbs. 00:13:19 Speaker 1: Well, when beauty and joy are paired together, it's very hard not to inspire someone's curiosity totally. 00:13:26 Speaker 2: And by the way, the beauty it's like the little jangling, the dangling thing of like here we are, we're really cute over here, and we've got something. It's a mix. It's a multi dimensional, mixed, blended message that I think subconsciously we're working on people's desire to feel good. They do tap into feeling good. This is a place for feel good fashion. 00:13:49 Speaker 1: It's not mean girl, right, Okay, So I you know, I have a funny relationship with Florence. Fit ends it, you know, because it's undeniably beautiful. Right. But that said, you know, there are these places that are so rmmed with tourism not travelers, that it can be really disappointing or confronting or overwhelming for people that are traveling to Florence. Let's say, And I'm always fascinated in places that you know, are big destinations that have a critical mass of tourism. But like for me, sometimes when I discover like the local life of it, I realized that they've also made this kind of invisible and that there is another life there. I mean, Venical course is like that and there. I can think of a bunch of places around the world, but you've recently rediscovered or discovered Florence, because I think you felt the same way as me before. 00:14:48 Speaker 2: I was so prejudiced toward Florence. I used to have to go for peaked Walmont Fashion Week. 00:14:55 Speaker 1: Which is, yeah, the men's men's sort of fashion. 00:14:56 Speaker 2: Yeah. Three and a half years ago, I met somebody who became my boyfriend, and I hit the jackpot here because he was really inside this world. And what was also remarkable, so many people, even Italians who lived there that weren't Florentine, told me how cold and difficult the Florentines were. I didn't find that at all. It really depends on how you're interacting with them. There's really a code of behavior that is really beautiful. I have to say so. 00:15:28 Speaker 1: But if you were to try traveling there, what have you discovered recently or what would you think about seeing that maybe other people haven't seen? 00:15:36 Speaker 2: Okay, well, one thing that is, everyone has seen the Ufitzi, but I just I hadn't been to the Ufizi since college and my whole energy body got activated in the meantime. So I went to the Ufitzi. It was crowded, but I went in there and even though the crowds was going, I got really close to some of the paintings and I put my left hand up because your left hand is where you receive energy. Holy smokes, put your left hand up to the Bottachelli's and the Da Vincis. Your entire hand is going to start vibrating like crazy. These are like energy. 00:16:07 Speaker 1: Put it to the David. Is there any like particular maker or store that you should be thinking about when you go to Florence? 00:16:17 Speaker 2: Okay, I have the craziest little inside rub My dog Pepper got outfitted for three custom dog collars and leashes with the matching poop bag at this place called Florenza. They are They have the chicest color leather you could ever imagine. They're very affordable. That's one of my favorite places to buy gifts. Where else do I like to? One of my favorite museum churches that's never very full is the or San Miquelai. Have you ever heard of it? Oh my god, it's a double nave. It's sensational and there's like a Mother Mary sanctuary, like a church within a church. It's the most beautiful church I've ever seen in my life. Maybe. 00:16:56 Speaker 1: Oh and I'm. 00:16:57 Speaker 2: Really partial to that blue that they've been using in the Renaissance. That's like cornflower. 00:17:03 Speaker 1: Bluebal tea kind of. 00:17:05 Speaker 2: Fubbal ta cornflower with all the gold stars. They've got that at the Bargella, which is extraordinary. That's that's where you can go see the da vid by Donatello. 00:17:15 Speaker 1: Well, exactly, that's my That's also one of my favorite. 00:17:17 Speaker 2: I love these places that feel like homes all throughout Italy. I highly recommend going into home museums. You're going to see a lot less people and they're extraordinary. 00:17:28 Speaker 1: Well, like the PI, which is the National Trust, there have some extraordinary houses. So if you see Mary homes, if you see Phi Fai, you know that's something to really follow. You just did a project in Florence as well, with the Villas mckel. 00:17:42 Speaker 2: Which had also been a place that was really connected in some ways. I'd spent a lot of time in Fiesole, So those are the hills above Florence. I knew about the villa. I had been once and then it was under renovation for a long time, and a friend of. 00:17:57 Speaker 1: House is like the legendary you know, one of if not the legendary hotel in Florence. 00:18:05 Speaker 2: It's extraordinary. It's the sixteenth century edifice, a former convent, monastery, et cetera, has all of this like energetic properties. Obviously then it was a residence and it has been recently renovated. And the architect was an Italian who knew us and was speaking to the general manager and was like, I think that my friend should decorate the chapel and maybe a suite and just give it a little bit of a twist. And we met with her and just like with all Italians, I mean, there's it's such a heart exchange. That's what I love so much about Italy. Of course it's about business and commerce, but it's so much more about do they like you? Do you like them? Is there a good feeling like do we want to have dinner together? This is who we're working with, for sure, it's really important. It's more important, and that's how you get us as a service in Italy. 00:18:53 Speaker 1: Oh, if you like torture and Italian or you're coming from, like you need to do this now and this country is so inefficient, which is also not exactly the case, to be honest. Yes it has some quotes, but it's not the case. Italians will just go Taparella attack and I won't behave like that, but they will blank you had Totally. 00:19:16 Speaker 2: It's a hard no, and it's so simple. I mean, it took me so long to learn this. You just need to practice patience and kindness and with that an enthusiasm. 00:19:26 Speaker 1: Correct, you will get I think enthusiasm thing. Enthusiasm more than anything else, totally, because it's like when you say chow come aside, they're like, oh my god, your Italian is amazing. Yeah, totally. It's one of the other countries that where that still happens. 00:19:44 Speaker 2: Accommodating they're so tolerant. 00:19:47 Speaker 1: I agree. 00:19:47 Speaker 2: I really we love the Italians so much and it's and it's really amazing too. It took me a while to unwind. I mean, you were Australian, so you probably had like less of that New Yorker mentality built into you when you first went, so you were more in their flow. I imagine I was really resistant. I was pissed. 00:20:05 Speaker 1: I mean it was upseting. 00:20:06 Speaker 2: You're also twenty four years ago was a different game. 00:20:09 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was such chaos when I was at school, so like you know, university, so it quite suited me. You know. One time they canceled the exam that we'd all been studying for three months because there was a football game that night. Can you imagine what the American students were doing, they we read melted down. For me, I was like, oh, thank god, thank fuck, I can actually study for the first time and I've got twelve hour reprieve. 00:20:34 Speaker 2: I couldn't believe it. How many times I would pass by a FRUITI vandolo that's you know, where you get your vegetables and fruits. At the beginning, there wasn't. There were very few, like large supermarkets, and the guy would be there and and I'd be like, oh, I'm want to come, and He's like, no, I'm going to my lunch. Now. I'm like, I just left my office so I could do my shop. No, no, no, no, I don't want to sell like they it's time for their lunch. They do not want to sell you something. 00:20:58 Speaker 1: This episode of Traveling Through is sponsored by Capital One. Capital one card holders are passionate about unforgettable experiences. Together, we partner to connect these curious travelers to world cultures, to expert guided journeys from the peaks of much of Peach to the grand architecture of Vienna. These once in a lifetime trips take you somewhere truly off the beaten path. Through Capital One Entertainment, eligible cardholders can book exclusive experiences and so much more, all while earning elevated rewards. Save A card holders an eight percent cash back and venture x earns five x miles. Thanks to Capital One, your dream getaway is one step closer. I wanted to talk to you about particularly here is when we're talking about travel, what are these places that have that energetic pull, that vibration, let's. 00:21:42 Speaker 2: Say, where you get lit up. 00:21:44 Speaker 1: Yeah, And also, like I know that you're and I'm in a way too very into volcanoes and also waterfalls, and I wanted to ask you about that because I don't think we've really really properly talked about it. But I think that they are somehow a connection to the core. Yes, literally of course with a volcano, but even waterfalls in a spring like somehow you feel there's an energy radiating out of. 00:22:10 Speaker 2: The planet one hundred percent. And I think that a lot of people are understanding that subliminally and connecting to it on their subconscious levels. But then I started meeting all these wonderful healers and spiritual teachers over the last fourteen years and actually understood that these people a lot many of their spiritual gifts are coming from their connection to the center of the Earth. And for many of us, actually connecting to the Earth can be a little bit difficult. I mean that energetically and spiritually, because it's so connected to your body, and people who have difficulty embodying literally being in the body, have a harder time connecting to Mother Earth. They want to be out there up in the stars, you know, you have those airy, fairy kind of people. And I have also found that these trips that I've taken where I can really connect into nature and connect to the the frequency of Pancha Mama Gaya, whatever you want to call her, it truly helps me with my own embodiment practice, which is fundamental because when you're raising your vibration, let's say, there's so many different ways to do that. It's an energetic you're like vibrating up here. Then you need to ground it and the earth really can help you with that, and there are sorry if I keep going, but the Earth has so many power points on it. There's actually you may know about the chakra system in the human body. In a lot of spiritual traditions, there's actually chakra points on planet Earth. So Mount Shasta is one of those. It was incredible. Gidza is one of them. 00:23:49 Speaker 1: We're going to go to one together, which is Uluru. We're going to do that. We're coming for you Australia. We've got to figure out those dates, but we're doing it in the next twelve months. We god that. 00:23:59 Speaker 2: Would be the one spiritual place that's like itching in my stomach of a place that I really need to go and connect to. 00:24:06 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like the heart of the continent, and it's where I've felt most related to what you're saying with a vibration or an energetic force that grounds you in a sense of like really understanding where I'm from. I was completely shocked by that experience. I have to say it changed my life. Frankly. 00:24:28 Speaker 2: That's why having spiritual retreats or workshops or trips in these places that our energy centers can be so much more powerful, and we have to also look back on these other wisdom traditions because people were feeling into this thousands and thousands of years ago of where the hotspots are. 00:24:49 Speaker 1: Well, that's really cool. Yeah, like, you know, the oldest living culture in the world, Indigenous Australians. I mean they make like Egyptians feel like modern you know, and it's it's the living culture. It's totally incredible. So egypt Is is a big inspiration. 00:25:06 Speaker 2: I felt cold to go for a really long time aesthetically you know, yeah, yeah, but not even from an esthetic thing. It was just like in the pit of my stomach, I'm like, this is a place that I want to go, and I knew I really wanted to go in a spiritual way. So a friend found another friend who was leading these trips. She was trained as a high priestess. I went on this trip the first year was twenty twenty one, and I got so into it. I became like a voracious student. And we go there in a really extraordinary way, which is with private access to the temples, which temples a lot of them, there's like twelve total, and each of them are accessed at either four or five am, and sometimes you're driving two hours to get to them, So sometimes you're waking up at three o'clock in the morning in order to start. It's worth it, No, I have to say, it's it's extraordinary because you're going in there with such reverence. There's another place that's insane. One of my favorite places, One of my favorite temples in Egypt is at It's the Ossyrian Temple. A lot of people don't go there. It's in the middle of nowhere. It's a pain in the neck to get there. It's boiling hot even in the springtime. It's a powerful temple because it's all about death. Osiris is all about like taking us down. And when you do this this trip in Egypt, it's truly like a rebirthing process. But also in my trips through Bali, I started really understanding the force of some of these dark, powerful goddesses like Kali and Durga, and there's so much to learn. And this is just a mirror and a reflection of what happens to us when we start that deep descent and we go into our own darkness and bring it back up. So basically what I'm talking about are all these trips that sort of provide a context and a container to do that. 00:26:59 Speaker 1: Well, you said to me, I don't really want to talk about Bali. Just talking about Bali make is it a bit basic? And I said, absolutely not, And I think it's really worth talking about Bali. 00:27:10 Speaker 2: So what's just remarkable about Bali is that when you take a step off the plane and you close your eyes and you open your senses to what's there, you will come into contact with the largest, widest, softest arms of the mother Goddess on planet Earth. Bali is pure mother, radiating, pure soft nurturing. People feel so good there. Even my brother who's like kind of hardcore, he's a surfer, he used to go there when he was young. He would come back like hypnotized by Bali people. It's a real thing and it's not going to go away because of the tourists and the sort of swarm that's there and all the books and the excitement that's like the crowds. What I've figured is, or what I've learned, is that the key to this is finding your way in, and you need to find your way in with local and people who are doing things in a very humble way and in a way that's very connected to the traditions of the land, and that's probably what you were saying also about Australia. 00:28:21 Speaker 1: You know, it's a thing about like that as well, Like when places become spiritual destinations, there are operators that can commoditize that in a really harmful way. So it's like, how are you finding the right practitioner is the stewards of these traditions, because I think that people are skeptical of that, and skeptical for good reason. 00:28:44 Speaker 2: Yeah, how do I do this? I mean, I'm not really doing this rationally or logically. I'm really using a lot of intuition. I'm using a lot of like my own like close my eyes, tap in, you know, make an intention and then see what pops up as I'm scrolling on Google. You know, there's a lot of like magic sometimes to the algorithm. And I've really now developed a rolodex and it's sort of just address book, personal address book of friends who have become or keelers who have become friends. Those are the kind of people that I will go and seek out. The reason I even got to Bali was because I was dating a Chigong guy and he, you know, of course had his thing there and What was so cool was that when I was visiting him, his friends were like the local priest. We would go to their home, have a very simple meal, eat with our hands, sit on the floor, and then they would open up the water temples at midnight and like a group of five would go in and get blessings inside the water temples. I mean phenomenal. 00:29:43 Speaker 1: Very few people would know, but you had your birthday party under a waterfall on Lake Como. Very few people understand that there is like a very beautiful waterfall kind of beyond a bridge. Sometimes it's covered in with Syria in Como. 00:30:01 Speaker 2: Yeah, I adore like Coomo and I we love Passa Laqua. We do, we really do. We love Grand Hotel Tremenzo. We love all of the elegance and the reaver boats and the sophistication. But George Clooney's pad the whole situation. But it was really cool to connect with that corner of Italy. I love to go in the lake number one February March April. 00:30:30 Speaker 1: It's freaking I know, we jumped in together. 00:30:34 Speaker 2: I love sessed with that. 00:30:36 Speaker 1: Yeah, we were both at the opening of Pasilaqua, which is the hotel of our great friend Valentina DeSantis, who is also you know, a fan of Double J and you did the pool area full of Prince and it was kind of an extraordinary night that really led, I think, to so many great things. But yeah, she's one of I think maybe you know, she's not dissimilar age to me, and I think one of, if not the best hotelier of her generation. 00:31:06 Speaker 2: She really is. 00:31:06 Speaker 1: Yeah, and she's managed to create a real community. And it's not because you know, the hotel is extraordinary. It has all of the amenities, it's beautiful. But actually, you know, i'd say this on the day that it opened. You know, it's had this very rare thing of the day that it opened. It was a classic. And it's because she's so warm and her team reflects that in such a beautiful Italian hospitality way. For me, it feels like a very Italian hotel. And you know, she's similar to a lot of these women that you've created and kind of cultivated around you, basically first in Milan, right yea. And those were a lot of women from like the fashion and design world and you dress them in the Double J and it became kind of you built a community around the brand rather than a top down it's become this kind of equal sharing thing, which I think is the hallmark of the brand. 00:32:02 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it really is. And I think what you're referring to when you talk about Valentine and pass halaqua, it feels like family, the best family you never had, but you always want it and it feels so comfortable and warm. And isn't that the energy thing that we're talking about. That's that's what this is. That's like the raise of vibration. It's literally that. And I feel like as time goes on, we're seeing the disintegration of so many like old systems, old hotel systems, old media systems, old political systems, religious institutions. Everything is kind of having a rebrand and like a recreation moment. And there's something really to be said by good vibes for sure, one hundred percent and understanding. Also we're not always on our game day, Like we don't always have our a game on. We're not always great, but just course correcting all the time and like coming back and I mean this has nothing to do with travel. I'm just talking really about just trying to be a better person all the time. And that's what I love about these places that I visit because I need the windshield. I kind of visualize sometimes this like windshield wiper of my energy body is like gir girk And it's really the kind of travel I love is transcendental travel. 00:33:27 Speaker 1: What does that mean. 00:33:28 Speaker 2: I think it's travel that induces a shift in consciousness. One thing I've noticed is that I get asked a lot of times for magazines to provide my list for this place or list for that place, my travel picks, and all they're interested in is where I'm going to shop, where I'm going to eat, and where I'm going to sleep. That's all fun, and I. 00:33:48 Speaker 1: Actually I've not asked you any of those things exactly, but those are the typical questions. 00:33:53 Speaker 2: And I think that you know, and by the way, I'm in the business of selling merchandise, so I'm not anti shopping. I just really think that what I am most attracted to when I'm traveling is connecting with places that are going to expand my awareness and my consciousness. And I'm deeply interested in sacred sights and traditions, local traditions. I would say Sardinia is like one of the biggest eye openers I've had on that it was right in my backyard in Italy. 00:34:29 Speaker 1: It's the only region in Italy that I've never been to. 00:34:31 Speaker 2: Exactly because why would we go, because we've only seen those terrible yachts in Porto Poeriva. 00:34:35 Speaker 1: I always say that, like it smells like money and gasoline. 00:34:39 Speaker 2: Totally, it's like our worst nightmare. And who knew. A twenty minute drive from Puerto Cervo is the most adorable town called San Pantaleo. It looks like an arts and crafts village, like in remote Mexico Capo Testa up on the north, just like maybe like an hour drive from there has some of the most unique rock formations you've ever seen in your life. I highly recommend going in the off season, so not June, July or August. I went over Christmas and years it was freezing and raining. I loved it. It was amazing. And you know, there's this thing called the Valley of the Moon and the rock sculptures, and it's not just there, it's all over Sardinia. You'll notice that the rocks take on the shape of animals and beasts and creatures. It's the most otherworldly, beautiful thing. You've ever seen. And then on top of it, there's all these archaeological sites that date back five thousand years, super super powerful. I went to a place called the pul City Santa Cristina, which is like an ancient well again water where you descend in stairs underground. It was so potent, David, you have no idea. And I've been going recently to a lot of these sites that are called the Tombe Digigante the Giants tombs, and you know, people are thinking like, oh, these must just be like funerary places. But some friends of mine, I go to these place is now not in organized retreats, but just like more relaxed with my friends, my spiritual sisters who are just tapped in. We go. Sometimes we hop over a lot of fences to get into places, which is what happened last time. And you tune in and you can really see that these were places for ceremony. And a friend of mine has a house there. She met this woman in Caliari whose job it is now to sort of promote all of this completely underground, underserved, unknown heritage of Sicily. It's freaking phenomenal. It's off the charts, Atlantean, how. 00:36:47 Speaker 1: Does a place like that inspire the clothes then that you design? 00:36:50 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, did you know that on May? First I need to get the exact name. But there's a parade that happens every year in the south of Sardinia where they have all of these incredible costumes. I mean, it looks almost like Eastern European. It almost looks Balking in its reference. 00:37:09 Speaker 1: So because it's very inland culture. 00:37:11 Speaker 2: Actually, oh my gosh, it's incredible. 00:37:14 Speaker 1: One of the places that I remember you traveling to that For a long time, I just had absolutely no desire to go to even if I love the country that it's in, which is Turkey, but I've never had a desire to go to Cappadoccia because, yes, it's beautiful with a thousand hot air balloons and that's kind of you know, but then again it's just must be rammed with people. So I was really surprised when you told me that you wanted to talk about Capadocia. 00:37:39 Speaker 2: First of all, Turkey is such a vibe. It's really I would go just for the yogurt, honestly, it's and they want to be sure you know that their yogurt is better than Greece. 00:37:52 Speaker 1: Well, they want to be sure in many ways, but I think it might be. 00:37:56 Speaker 2: Actually I never tasted I never tasted anything like that in my entire life. It was probably the best breakfast I've ever had in my life. 00:38:03 Speaker 1: Was not a hot take to say that Turkish food beats out Greek food, Okay, I don't think. Okay, well I'm good. Probably love love like food. But Turkish food is something else. 00:38:15 Speaker 2: Oh my god, It's so good. 00:38:16 Speaker 1: Because it pulls in the East, you know, it pulls in those other traditions and Kapinokia. I always forget that it's quite you know, it's quite far east in the country. 00:38:24 Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is. And I could totally see what you're talking about with the cartoonish tourist elements of it. This became a it was a retreat. It was a spirituality that transforms everything when you go in there and you want to tap into something deeper. If you're just going and you're like looking around with your three D eyes, yeah, that's going to be really annoying. If you're closing your eyes and you're tapping into what's going on underneath the ground and what's happening energetically and you're meditating in caves, that can be a very very different experience. So that's what I kind of mean by that transcendental travel is going in and finding a different like point of entry and a new portal. And I really believe that this will be a more common thing that people are doing. I'm starting to see a lot of healers and teachers who are wanting to take trips to these places you're doing. 00:39:26 Speaker 1: We certainly see that. I mean, I am constantly struggling with like who is real? Who is like drawing a modality, an authentic modality from a like particular tradition. You know, I do think that there is Yeah, there's a lot of fakeness there. 00:39:45 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there really is. And you know what, you know what, you know what the number one sort of test is like how is this sitting in your stomach? 00:39:54 Speaker 1: But some people aren't even connected to that? You know, you're very connected to it. It's sort of like you know, and I think this would be is kind of the beauty of the brand and and you in so many ways is that your energy in general in life and energy for learning and the new and also like understanding and respect for tradition allows you to be a conduit and kind of life coach to people that are curious. Right, Yeah, I really enjoy that. 00:40:25 Speaker 2: I've always said I want to be a life coach. Meanwhile, now I have a life coach and it's been a game changer. I always needed a life coach. 00:40:33 Speaker 1: I went to Turkey last year with my friend Shiloh. 00:40:37 Speaker 2: Engelbreg Oh, my god, your my favorite. 00:40:39 Speaker 1: Shilah was an old friend of mine from Australia and we've yeah, strangely, we've been in a few different destinations, the three of us actually, one of which was my fortieth birthday, which was in Andalusia. 00:40:53 Speaker 2: That was the most remarkable birthday party. It was fantastic. I think that kind of an event where you're treating us to all of your insider information, but again not shopping. It's truly the experience of what you know. It was just it was so remarkable, David. 00:41:13 Speaker 1: We had it during the Fair of April, but in Seville, and we stayed at a friend of mine's hotel outside of Sevilla coll Trasierra, which we took over. And it was Yeah, it was a magical, a magical weekend. And then it showed up a couple of years later in some inspiration for one of your collections. 00:41:35 Speaker 2: Oh my god, it did I am, and so has Egypt, and so has Ireland, which is a place that I went to. 00:41:45 Speaker 1: Last How did it show up with Ireland? 00:41:47 Speaker 2: So Ireland I went to last August. How many days were we there? I think like fourteen days. We were traveling every day. I don't recommend traveling every day. I would spend a little bit of it. A tiny country, even if it's a tiny country, but we were going all over. We hit every stone circle. And you know what's incredible. They are the Dolmens. Have you ever gone what they are? Literally these rock formations five thousand years old. You can't even imagine how they've positioned these enormous monolithic stones in a position that is like a cabin almost, and they're like rocket chip alien galactic portals. 00:42:25 Speaker 1: I found a book there one time in Dublin which was the like the Fairies of like the garden fairies or the woodland fairies, and it's all illustrations of the different like fairy plants. Because there's a big you know, it might say like oh whatever, but there is a big belief system and tradition around that in. 00:42:44 Speaker 2: Our bus driver, who was no way in connection to the trip, believed in fairies. 00:42:51 Speaker 1: No, there's a mournful beauty there, but then and also in a kind of optimism. 00:42:57 Speaker 2: And they're wonderful. I loved Ireland and I had done Scotland the year before. Huh so these are all places Cappadokia, Ireland, Scotland, sar didn' ya Sicily we didn't even get into Sicily. And our love for Etna. 00:43:10 Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean, I mean we should say first point and I well, we met in Sicily, but we met under Etna. 00:43:17 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know what, Mama Etna. I trust that volcano with my life. The thing about ETNA and Sicily in general is that there's a lot of refreff There's a lot of rundown buildings. It's not magically groomed and glorious like the rest of many parts of Italy, like Tuscany. What you'll find, but you just have to be patients, a little bit like Pulia. You know, you have to go and be really pinpointed at it. Edna is an extraordinary experience. I've got an incredible guide named Mirto that's taken me up to the top. I've hiked three times to the top, two times during which it was erupting, and you can go up there when it's erupting. It's it's extraordinary. It's like across the street you will see lava popping up. It's nuts. 00:44:02 Speaker 1: What do you think is the next place for you to kind of discover in terms of another realm, you mean other than Ularu, other than Ullare, because we're going to do that together and then you can come back and we can talk about it. 00:44:14 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say South America. 00:44:16 Speaker 1: Really and what y where's drawing you? 00:44:18 Speaker 2: I feel like it's going to be Peru. And I mean that that's literally just like the stomach answer. I don't really even have an uh. You know, I'd been to Brazil and spend time in the jungle. We're going to open probably some stores in Brazil. But in terms of my transcendental travel, what I'm really feeling is Peru. 00:44:37 Speaker 1: I mean, I think that the beauty of travel and the complexity and diversity of the world is that you could keep going in the in your pursuit of becoming an expert or knowledgeable about all of these different traditions that are related to spirituality. You could keep going forever and ever and ever and not even not even in broad brushstrokes. We're talking. That is the complexity and beauty of like our shared experience. I think, Okay, so I do this to everyone and I talk to them with some quick questions and answers. So where have you felt most at home? 00:45:19 Speaker 2: Milan is my home, but it's really double Jay's home. And I feel like my home is in a cave next to a redwood tree and next to a waterfall, and I'm very happy actually to live modestly. I would live in a tree like the Bamboo Inda Hotel in Bali is one of my favorite hotels because they have all those extraordinary treehouses that you sleep in. Like if I just had like two rooms and a tree, I'm super good for the rest of my life. 00:45:43 Speaker 1: Well, I'd climb up the tree and hang with you. I know you were and most out of place? 00:45:48 Speaker 2: China? 00:45:49 Speaker 1: Where would you always return? 00:45:51 Speaker 2: Egypt? 00:45:52 Speaker 1: Where would you never go back? 00:45:54 Speaker 2: Moscow? I wasn't into it. 00:45:57 Speaker 1: What about hotel? 00:45:58 Speaker 2: You mean? My favorite? Yeah, Bamboo Enda. 00:46:02 Speaker 1: What's a meal or taste you'd like to experience again? 00:46:05 Speaker 2: A California chop salad. 00:46:09 Speaker 1: You're not getting that, get malan, what about like museum? Cultural institution? 00:46:15 Speaker 2: The lineki? 00:46:16 Speaker 1: Okay, so favorite shop you can ever? Well, you know what, I'm going to just answer this for you. Okay, you're allowed to sing as though you've just opened a store of Madison Avenue? 00:46:31 Speaker 2: Am I allowed to plug it? Well? 00:46:33 Speaker 1: No, I'm going to plug it in this instance. And I don't think it's a plug. I think you know, it's extraordinary. It's an extraordinary reflection of you and everything that you've achieved. So I'm vetoing you and saying lighthouse on sixty ninety. So I also ask everyone this, and again it's your The first answer is the right answer, and forget about constraints of life wherever you are, or how much time you have or how much time it takes to get there. So, okay, where would you most like to spend a weekend? 00:47:03 Speaker 2: Como? 00:47:04 Speaker 1: What about a week Sedona month? 00:47:07 Speaker 2: I really want to go to a ranch in Montana? And yeah, Sri Lanka. 00:47:12 Speaker 1: And the final question, what are you traveling through right now? 00:47:16 Speaker 2: Oh? My gosh, do you want that to be one word? 00:47:20 Speaker 1: No? Okay, I it's however you take it. 00:47:24 Speaker 2: I'm traveling through the complexity of being in a very dense physical body and world with a company that is seemingly superficial, while at the same time having all of this more. I would just say expansion energetically, spiritually, emotionally, that I would really like to start to merge and bring down and integrate into the physical. So I feel like I'm traveling through a multi dimensional kind of storm, and I'm really looking forward to embodying and integrating it, if that makes sense at all. 00:48:15 Speaker 1: Sometimes you don't make any sense at all, and then all of a sudden you make perfect sense, and I think that's the beauty of you.