1 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing. 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: How can scientists predict future climate trends? How can they 3 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: know the prehistoric past? And what to do about deniers, 4 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: including the President? My guests today answer those questions with 5 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: humor and simplicity. Peter do Memical is the dean of 6 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: science at Columbia University. Kate Marvel has a PhD in 7 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: theoretical physics from Cambridge and does research at NASA. They 8 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: could have had any job they wanted, but both of 9 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 1: them chose to bring their talents to bear on climate 10 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 1: change because, as Kate argues, if we don't fix that, 11 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: not much else will matter. And yet millions of Americans 12 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: still want to debate whether there's even a problem to solve. 13 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: Whenever we have a cold day, people are always like, oh, 14 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: where's your climate change? Now? What do you tell? Sometimes 15 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: I don't respond because you know, if somebody still believes that, 16 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,199 Speaker 1: what what are you gonna do? Um? But it's really 17 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 1: important to note that weather is short term and climate 18 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 1: is these long term averages. Right. I cannot tell you 19 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: what the weather in Boston next year in January is 20 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: going to be like, But I can guess that it's 21 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: going to be cold because I know what the climate 22 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: of Boston is. I don't know if it's gonna be snowing, 23 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: if it's gonna be sunny, but I know it's going 24 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: to be cold in January in Boston. Where that gets 25 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: complicated is that weather doesn't exist independent of climate, and 26 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 1: by changing the climate, we're changing everything about the Earth, 27 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,199 Speaker 1: including the weather. Um. And I think of this kind 28 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: of like bear with me here. I think it is 29 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 1: kind of like Lance Armstrong. Right, So lands Armstrong is 30 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: really good at riding his bike. He would beat me 31 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: in any bike race ever. Um. But lands Armstrong was doping. 32 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: And when we find out that lands Armstrong was doping, 33 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: we don't go back to every single race he's ever 34 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: written in and say, okay, well that one he would 35 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: have come third, that one he would have been fifty seven. No, Like, 36 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: we know he was doping, and we know what doping does. 37 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: So a lot of times when we ask how much 38 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: did climate change cause this particular flood or drought or 39 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: heat wave, that's not necessarily the right question because we're 40 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: doping the weather, and we know what doping does. How 41 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: much of it is some cyclical geologic history. And even 42 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 1: if the contribution we're making it just the one straw 43 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: that breaks the camel's back, isn't that enough to get 44 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: you don't want to curtail our behavior. I think that's 45 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 1: actually a really good question. I'm glad you asked it 46 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 1: because people keep telling climate scientists like, oh, the climate 47 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: has always changed, and we're like, we know, we told 48 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: you that. We are essentially the people who study that. 49 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: We figured that out. What percentage of the warming right 50 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 1: now are humans responsible for? Over humans are responsible for 51 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 1: more than all of the warming, because if it wasn't 52 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: for us, the Earth would be cooling very slightly. It 53 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: would be because of what the Sun is doing. The 54 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: Sun is getting ever so slightly weaker. So yeah, if 55 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 1: it wasn't for us, tiny variation in the Sun's output 56 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: would be making a cold. Peter I think studied geology, 57 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: so he can put this really in the context of 58 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: the entire Earth history and the climates that we've experienced 59 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: over the entire history of the planet. And actually, many 60 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: people have talked about climate cycles, and this is often 61 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: one of the discounts on what's causing global warming. So 62 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: as part of some natural cycle and Indeed, in the 63 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: past there have been geological cycles of warming and cooling 64 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: that have been driven by orbital variations, variations in the 65 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: Earth's orbit around the Sun, which are very gradual. The 66 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: shortest of these cycles is about twenty tho years long, 67 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: and that's what's caused the pacing of the ice ages. 68 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: In the past. We've had ice ages, we've had warmer times, 69 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: ice ages, warmer times, and what those resulted from? What 70 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: when the Earth froze and you've had an ice age 71 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: that was the result of what? So, what the orbits 72 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: do is they change the amount of sunlight you get 73 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: during a given season. So I'll say northern hemisphere summer, 74 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: where we're further from the Sun. It's the Earth's sun geometry. 75 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: In other words, what causes the summer. This is great. 76 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: Half of Harvard undergraduates get this wrong. What causes the 77 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,559 Speaker 1: seasons is the tilt of the Earth the sun towards 78 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:19,919 Speaker 1: the Sun. We're closer to the Sun in our winter 79 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: exactly point the years ago. We were closer to the 80 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: Sun when we were pointed toward it. And what I 81 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: see now is that the fall is gone and the 82 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 1: spring is gone. You're not wrong, um, and sort of 83 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:38,359 Speaker 1: the The earlier arrival of spring actually has implications for 84 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 1: things like growing seasons for crops um. It also has 85 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: implications for things like pestborn diseases, and so scientists have 86 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: checked these things, and there's a whole rigorous area of 87 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: attribution science where people look at long term trends and 88 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: people do statistics to answer these questions. So is this 89 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: a fluke or is this something that's really happening? And 90 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: changes in the seasons, not just in New York but 91 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: all around the world are something that we expect and 92 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,239 Speaker 1: we see actually happening. I'll ask this question to Peter. 93 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 1: Do you feel that people are always talking about some 94 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: radical solution. I was reading online and they talk about 95 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: dimming the sun was the article. The other day They're 96 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 1: going to spray the clouds and the atmosphere with a chemical. 97 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 1: Does that concern you that that kind of attitude and 98 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: there's some quick fix that can happen. Absolutely, that concerns me. 99 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,359 Speaker 1: I mean, first, it just begets this kind of hubrist 100 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: that humans can control everything, and we're far from that. 101 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: I mean, there's nothing more humbling than trying to solve 102 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: the climate problem. The work that Kate does for example, 103 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: and the climate modeling. It's an incredibly hard problem and 104 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 1: you know, the the amount of intellectual horsepower that has 105 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 1: to go and just to pose the question to understand 106 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: what the attribution story is, how much of the global 107 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: warming is due to human activities and natural factors, that's 108 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 1: a tremendously complicated problem. Describe for me, Kate, what exactly 109 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: is the work you're doing now? So? I work on 110 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 1: climate models, which are computer simulations of the climate, and 111 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 1: those allow us to do projections into the future, but 112 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 1: they also let us do experiments that we couldn't do 113 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: in the real world. So you know, what if a 114 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:21,359 Speaker 1: volcano went off in London? What would that do? Um? 115 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: What if humans didn't exist? What would the earth look like? Um? 116 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: So I work with climate models. I work with an 117 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: incredible amount of data that comes out of those models. 118 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: And because I sit at an office of NASA, I 119 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 1: work with satellite data sets to try to see what 120 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: are the models telling us what's actually happening and are 121 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: those the same thing? And what about you, Peter, what 122 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: kind of work are you doing now? So? As Kate mentioned, 123 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: I'm a geologist, so I'm a marine geologist, and I 124 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: use ocean sediments, which are the ultimate repositories of sediment. 125 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: And so they are these encyclopedias of Earth history that 126 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 1: accumulate very quietly and in a very hidden way in 127 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 1: the bottom of the oceans. And so we take sediment 128 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: course and we can read these like a book, and 129 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: so we can see how climate has changed in the past, 130 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: what caused those changes, and more importantly, it allows you 131 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: to put what's happening today and into the future in 132 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: the context of the geological past. You go to the 133 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: yield the most information. Fortunately, the Earth is mostly covered 134 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: with ocean, so there's a lot of places we can 135 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: do our work. Uh For me, in particular, I do 136 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: work off of West in East Africa, so I study 137 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: how the North African climate, the Saharan Desert has changed 138 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: over time. The Sahara Desert was once completely vegetated region, 139 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: filled with crocodiles and hippopotamus and people, and then it transitioned. 140 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: What happened. What happened was because of this variation in 141 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: the Earth orbit that I was telling you about, this 142 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: wobble of the Earth that changed the intensity of the 143 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: African monsoon, which brings in rainfall from the ocean. Into 144 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: the interior, it got weaker, and so the place became 145 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: drier and drier, and suddenly the sands took over. And 146 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: one of the instinct discoveries we made was that that 147 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: transition from wet dry happened within a couple of centuries, 148 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: so it's just really rapid transit. And Kate, what about you. 149 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: Have you always been in this field and has it 150 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: always been weather and climate related for you? No? Actually? Um? 151 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: So I did my PhD in cosmology, so specifically string theory, 152 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: which is the physics of the entire universe. Um. And 153 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: I kind of realized midway through my PhD that you know, 154 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: the universe is great, but but really this is the 155 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: best place, Like the Earth is by far the best planet. Um. 156 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: And so I was able to use my physics background 157 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: to study the physics of the Earth's climate and it's 158 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: so fascinating. What would be I'll go with you first, Peter, 159 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: what would be some of the things that you would 160 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: do right now to address this problem? Right? So, if 161 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: I was king of the world, the thing that I 162 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: would do right now is support the Green New Deal, 163 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: which is this investment in UH infrastructure and resupplying REPO 164 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 1: owering the planet. It's a shift towards renewables, it's adopting 165 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 1: wide scale battery storage. It's basically building up in this 166 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: country national climate resilience as a way of addressing the 167 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: climate problem, because there's, in my opinion, there's no solution 168 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: towards this other than an economic market based one. We 169 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: can't drive the world into poverty. We can't drive the 170 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: world into uh, you know, a dramatic way of of 171 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: living relative to where we are now. Certainly in the 172 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: time scale we're talking about, which is my lifetime. This 173 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: is not even my children's full lifetime. This is at 174 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: the end of our lifetimes, we're gonna be seeing these impacts. 175 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: We can see this, for example, in real estate prices, 176 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: so in houses that are right next to each other. 177 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: I let's say the Long Island Coast or in Florida, 178 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: and which is to most recent examples, these are neighboring houses. 179 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,959 Speaker 1: One is more susceptible to flooding because it's slightly lower, 180 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: the other one is less. The one that is more 181 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: susceptible to flooding and selling at a five to fift 182 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 1: discount relative to its neighbor. So this is happening Now, 183 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,559 Speaker 1: this is not the economic really, yeah, you know, this 184 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 1: is billions of dollars that are moving, that are evaporating 185 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: from the economy as we speak. The fires in California. 186 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: There's a paper that just came out just just a 187 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: couple of days ago that estimates the economic impact of 188 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: the California fires alone at four billion dollars. Just put 189 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 1: that in context, that's half of that's a little bit 190 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: more than half of the U. S Military budget per year. Um, 191 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: what about you? What would you do if you were 192 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: the I don't want to. I want to get it 193 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: right gender wise. If you were the king, I can 194 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: be whatever I want. Um. Right now, emitting carbon dioxide 195 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: is free. We don't charge anybody to do that, And 196 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: I don't think it should be free because there is 197 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: a cost to it. We're all paying that price. And 198 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,599 Speaker 1: so I would put a price on carbon dioxide. I 199 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 1: would say, you cannot do this for free. You actually 200 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: have to pay the social costs. And friends of mine 201 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: who work in related fields teach me that domestic usage, 202 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: all the cars we drive round that even those are 203 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: significantly less than what industry does that causes air pollution. 204 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: That industry itself is a far greater polluter than individuals. 205 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: Do you agree with that or no? That's true, but 206 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: I think it's important to keep in mind that industry 207 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: is making products that we then consume. Um. So there's 208 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 1: This is why climate change is such a hard problem 209 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 1: to talk about, because it's an individual problem, but it's 210 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: also a social problem. So you can lower your personal 211 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,559 Speaker 1: carbon footprint. You can eat less meat, you can make 212 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: your home more energy efficient, you can drive less, you 213 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,199 Speaker 1: can fly less, and that up your appliances in your home, 214 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,679 Speaker 1: upgrade your appliances. You can do all these things and 215 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: that will lower your personal carbon footprint. But if everybody 216 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: only does a little, will only do a little. And 217 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: that's because climate change is fundamentally a large scale problem. 218 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: We need action at a very large scale to address 219 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: this problem. And so when people ask me what's the 220 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: number one thing I can do to combat climb to change, 221 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 1: it's a vote. Is there anything the two of you 222 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 1: disagree about? Almost certainly. I mean this is the thing. 223 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 1: Scientists don't agree on anything. We fight all the time. 224 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: If you go to a scientific conference, you will just 225 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: see knockdown, drag out fights about stuff like how fast 226 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: dirt drives out on the sun. You would not believe 227 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: it's a really big problem. It's a huge Maybe we 228 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,559 Speaker 1: can start a fight about this right now. Um. And 229 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: so for science, for there to be a scientific consensus 230 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: on something that's a really big deal. And I think 231 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: it's also important to not confuse the word consensus with 232 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,439 Speaker 1: meaning that everyone agrees on exactly the same thing. The 233 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 1: consensus is on the fundamental question of whether the observed 234 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: warming we're seeing today, the weird weather we're seeing today, 235 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: can be linked to human activity, specifically carbon emissions, and 236 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: the vast majority of the scientists, basically everyone agrees on 237 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: that central topic. Does it infuriate you the major oil 238 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: manufacturers have been obscuring the facts of climate change so 239 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 1: that they can make money. What do you say to them? 240 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 1: I mean, what do you say to their scientists that 241 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: are on their payroll? Well, they know, Um, you know, 242 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: the scientists who work for Exxon know that climate change 243 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: is real. They know that it's happening, and they know 244 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 1: that it poses a major threat to their business. Um. 245 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: What I would say to not necessarily an oil industry executive, 246 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 1: but you know your uncle who doesn't believe in climate change? Um, 247 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: I'm a scientist right. So I'm tempted to show graphs 248 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: and charts and be like, read this paper and and 249 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 1: that doesn't work. That never works because a lot of 250 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: this isn't about the facts. It's not about the science, 251 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: and if we just give people more facts, that almost 252 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: never changes their mind. Something that has a narrative that 253 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: has really worked for some of my conservative family members 254 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: has been first, the military. The military takes climate change 255 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: extremely seriously. They view it as a threat multiplier and 256 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: all of the naval bases are at sea level, so 257 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: they are very very concerned about this. Um. The insurance industry. Um, 258 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: if you were an insurance executive or reinsurance executive, so 259 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: the insurers of the insurance industry, and you didn't believe 260 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: in climate change, you could undercut everybody else by coming 261 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 1: along and offering lower rates. And if climate change isn't real, 262 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: there's no incentive to take it into consideration. And yet 263 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: the entire reinsurance industry takes this really seriously. So people 264 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: with an economic motivation to take this seriously take it seriously. UM. 265 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: And that's something that's worked for my family members, Like 266 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: you won't listen to your daughter who is a scientist, 267 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: but you'll listen to the reinsurance industry. Um, And I 268 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: think it's just it's about the messenger, it's about the narrative, 269 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: it's about the language that we use. And there's no 270 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: one thing that's going to work on everybody. Not to 271 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: pile on to you know who. But it's safe to 272 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:10,479 Speaker 1: assume that the voice that would collate all this information 273 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: and present two disparate sections of society should be the 274 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: President of the United States, as far as you're concerned 275 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: in an ideal or LEAs, so that that's correct, I think, um, 276 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: you know, it does need that kind of leadership. Indeed, 277 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: the kind of transition we're envisioning for the future that 278 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: will happen in our lifetimes requires that kind of leadership. Now, 279 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: in the absence of that leadership, and there's this great 280 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: expression that's called we're still in, which is that the 281 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: United States is still part of Paris. The United States 282 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: still committed, committed to the goals of pairs despite the 283 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: right So yeah, so despite what you know who has 284 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: said about pulling out of pairs, that's that's that's just artifice. 285 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: The reality is that the large industries, statewide coalitions, large 286 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: emitters have gotten together and said we can do. Was 287 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: there something in your community where when Trump was elected 288 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: you just thought, oh god, this, it couldn't be any 289 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: worse in terms of political leadership for this issue. The 290 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: guy that comes up in cit because we're gonna bring 291 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: that coal. We know so much coal, he said, so 292 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: many jobs in coal, And you're like, uh huh, really 293 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: what you know? Yeah, exactly, And that's um, well, it's 294 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: amazing is that I think certainly. I'll speak for myself. 295 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: I mean I was. I was shocked at the implications 296 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: I thought it would have for me at that point, 297 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: and I am just so much more shocked now. Um, 298 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: just in terms of the multiplication of the problem as 299 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: times as progressed. I mean, beyond the president who said 300 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: we're all in for Paris and we're all in with 301 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: these goals, do we need to look like, for one example, 302 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: I'm someone who's thinking we have to have real action 303 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: on a number of levels, so that we would have 304 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 1: a federal order that all fleet vehicles that would be 305 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: used by institutions in the country had to be hybrid 306 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: cars and electric cars every school. Where's the government program? 307 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: When you just order that, you just make that? So 308 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: is that an answer as far as your concerned. So 309 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: here's the problem with talking to scientists. Um, okay, my 310 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:18,200 Speaker 1: dream is to be completely irrelevant to the climate conversation. 311 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: Um my dream is just to to do science and 312 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: to learn about the planet. But all the fights we're 313 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:29,719 Speaker 1: having are about policies, are about should the government just 314 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,120 Speaker 1: mandate this or is there another way to do this? 315 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: And I feel like that's an issue that reasonable people 316 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: can disagree on. But we're stuck in this conversation where 317 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: it's is climate change real? Yes, it's real? Is that 318 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 1: us more than is us? And so you know, what 319 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: you say sounds like a great idea. I'm on board. 320 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: I'd vote for you. But I think reasonable people could 321 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: probably disagree with that. But I don't think reasonable people 322 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: can disagree that that this is happening and that this 323 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: is a problem. I would agree. I mean, I would 324 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,479 Speaker 1: love it if I became obsolete. I really think that's Uh, 325 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: that's really my life's ambition is to have made a 326 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: difference to the same way about my Trump impression. Yeah, so, um, 327 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: you know, I do think you know, one of the 328 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: things that society can really galvanize around, or at least 329 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 1: American society can galvanize around. Is that climate change is 330 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: costing us. Now it's real dollars. I mean last year 331 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: it was roughly three billion dollars in climate and weather 332 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:33,919 Speaker 1: related damages. This year, with with the California fires, it 333 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: looks like it's maybe even more than that. These are 334 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: real dollars. This is, and this is so regardless of 335 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,400 Speaker 1: whether you believe in climate change or not. Imagine you're 336 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: in some deeply read state and a deeply red county 337 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: in that state. You are paying for this. You may 338 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: not like it, you don't want to call it climate 339 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: change or whatever, but you for sure someone is paying 340 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: that bill, and it's us. Well more of California experience 341 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 1: longer droughts and therefore be susceptible to what happened what 342 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: was happening there now on our current traductory, the answer, 343 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: unfortunately as yes, that we're just getting a taste. How 344 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,479 Speaker 1: can be about to use film analogy, I'd like to 345 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: pan left to another world where we've adopted a much 346 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: more widespread uh sourcing of let's say, renewable power. We've 347 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: come up with ways of of storing that power and 348 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 1: allowing capacitance to the grid when you imagine a United 349 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 1: States that's generating much more of its electricity supply from 350 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: non fossil fuel related sources. There's been this quiet revolution 351 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 1: that no one knows about, which is called grid parity, 352 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: which is at state by state, there's been this toppling 353 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: of renewables becoming cheaper per unit of what created than 354 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,639 Speaker 1: fossil fuel sources. And so now there's a majority of 355 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: states where it's cheaper to build out renewables and and 356 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,719 Speaker 1: deploy that energy than it is to build a fossil 357 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: fuel plant. If you look at the price of solar panels, 358 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 1: they're getting cheaper and cheaper and cheaper every year, um. 359 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 1: And that gives me a lot of hope that eventually 360 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 1: it will just be nuts to use fossil fuels, and 361 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,360 Speaker 1: we can do things to make that day come way sooner. 362 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 1: But eventually maybe it'll be a hobby, right, like riding 363 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: a horse. It's it's not the way you get to work. 364 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: That's crazy. The coal industry in the US employs fewer 365 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 1: people than Arby's, and you wouldn't destroy the planet to 366 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: save Arby's. World renowned Columbia climate researchers Peter Domenical and 367 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: Cape Marvel. One thing climate scientists, environmentalists, indigenous activists, and 368 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: tourists all agree on is the importance of protecting forests. 369 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: A pioneer on the business side of that effort is 370 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: conservation biologist Charles Mutton. I'm a big believer in creating 371 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: parks and Indian reserves and as and protecting them. Tom 372 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:55,919 Speaker 1: Ecotourism has to be part of the mix, because you 373 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 1: only need to have one lodge in partnership with local 374 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 1: Indians at the mouth of the river of a million 375 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 1: acre rainforest park. And yet that one small lodge can 376 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 1: have turnover maybe one or two million dollars a year, 377 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: and it protects a million acres behind it because it 378 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: keeps people from getting in behind it. So it's a 379 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: It's a very inexpensive way to protect enormous pieces of forest, 380 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: and anything you can do that can slow down deforestation 381 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: will help slow down climate change. The rest of my 382 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: conversation with eco tourism innovator Charles Munn can be found 383 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: in our archive that Here's the Thing dot org. When 384 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: we returned Peter Domenico and Kate Marvel on having kids 385 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,439 Speaker 1: in a warming world and on walking the line between 386 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:52,439 Speaker 1: despair and complacence. This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening 387 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 1: to here's the thing this week. I'm talking to climate 388 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: science researchers Kate Marvel and Peter Domenico. When you really 389 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:06,159 Speaker 1: understand the implications of climate change, some common life decisions 390 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 1: take on extra weight. Do you have kids? Twin girls? 391 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 1: You have kids, Kate, I have a child? How old? Three? 392 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: So you had your kid more recently, you had your 393 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: kid fully inside the consciousness bubble of global warming. When 394 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: you were having a kid that you where you're like, 395 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: you know, bringing a kid into the warmed world. I 396 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 1: mean absolutely, um, And there's nothing that kind of makes 397 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: those projections concrete like having a kid. You know, I 398 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: used to think about um. You know, like you you 399 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: run your computer model, you look at what it says, 400 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: you look at the conditions of the planet in and 401 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, that looks bad. But then you realize like, 402 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, like that's when my child is going 403 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 1: to be an adult, that's when he might be deciding 404 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: whether to have kids of his own. And that really 405 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: personalizes it, that that makes it not an abstract thing anymore. 406 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: I remember years ago the New York Times Science section 407 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: had an article about this topic, and they had bands 408 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: going to south and northward on the North American continent, 409 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 1: and they basically said that these bands of meteorology are 410 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,120 Speaker 1: going to shift northward, so that the weather in Miami 411 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,199 Speaker 1: will become the weather in Atlanta, and the weather Atlanta 412 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 1: will become the weather in Washington, and Washington will become 413 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: New York and so forth. Is that what you're seeing? Yeah? Um, 414 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 1: And the scary thing is that in the tropics, in 415 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: the countries that are already really hot, they're moving into 416 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: a climate that we don't have an analog for. So, 417 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: you know, a country on the equator, you know, what's 418 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: what's that climate going to look like. It's not gonna 419 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: look like anything we've seen before. The thing that really 420 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: freaks me out, the thing that really scares me is 421 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 1: this combination of heat and humidity. So there's something called 422 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 1: the wet Balb temperature, which is literally just you take 423 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,199 Speaker 1: a thermometer and you put a wet washcloth on it 424 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: and you see what it measures. And that measures a 425 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: combination of heat and humidity. And that is a really 426 00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: critical thing for human health because that reflects your bill 427 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: city to cool yourself off by sweating, and if that 428 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: gets too high, then a healthy young person who's naked 429 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,640 Speaker 1: in the shade will be dead because you cannot regulate 430 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: your body temperature by sweating. And we expect this to 431 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:21,360 Speaker 1: reach dangerous levels, especially in South Asia regions of India, Bangladesh, 432 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 1: UM by the by the middle or the end of 433 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: the century, and that has major implications for people who 434 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: work outside. Could climate change lead to actual adaptive changes 435 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: in the human genome and what might that look like? Oh, 436 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: my god, I am not. That's a perfect question for you. 437 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: The thing about climate change is that, as you pointed out, 438 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 1: natural climate change has happened before. We've seen little wobbles 439 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: in the Earth's orbit, and that happens on the time 440 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: scale of hundreds and thousands of years. And what we're 441 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: seeing right now is climate change that is quicker than 442 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 1: anything that we have ever seen. And that it's not 443 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 1: the wobbles, it's not the sun, it's us, and it's 444 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: so quick. It's not even quick and geologic time. It's 445 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: quick and actual time, like we have seen changes in 446 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 1: our lifetimes. Um And so I don't even know how 447 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 1: the human genome can keep up with that because if 448 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 1: you look at the time scales over which evolution operates 449 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: and the time scales over which climate change is happening, 450 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: climate change is just happening so so quickly. It's happening 451 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:40,640 Speaker 1: much much faster than something like evolution. You think God 452 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: wants to evict us, he wants us out of here. No, 453 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 1: I believe. I believe that the Earth is some self policing, 454 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: self maintaining system. So human beings are going to get 455 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: killed off. So the animals get they'll build their birdeness 456 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 1: inside the Chrysler building and it's Disneyland and everything, and 457 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 1: then they'll take over the world again and it'll be 458 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,360 Speaker 1: fine and we'll be gone. I mean, like, the Earth's 459 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,679 Speaker 1: a rock, right, It's it's a really special rock. But 460 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: the Earth doesn't care about climate change. It's still going 461 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: to be here. Um. And I actually I'm not sure 462 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 1: that climate change is an immediate threat to human existence, 463 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: but I know that it is an immediate threat to 464 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: human happiness and human civilization and so a lot of 465 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 1: times an immediate threat to the way we live now 466 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 1: for sure. Um. And a lot of times people ask 467 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: me like, oh, our human is going to be extinct? 468 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,120 Speaker 1: Are we doomed, and I kind of feel like, I mean, 469 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: we're probably not doomed, but like I have higher standards, 470 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, if that's the best 471 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: thing you can say after a day, you're like, I 472 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,719 Speaker 1: didn't go extinct today, then it wasn't a good day. 473 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: That I mean that. That's what sometimes people say is that, well, 474 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 1: it's not really a problem unless it's going to kill everybody. 475 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: But if your community offers evidence says we're at the 476 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,439 Speaker 1: point now where we are actually seeing the possibility of 477 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: human extinction, are you going to have the Trumps of 478 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: the world and his support turn and go, no, we're not, 479 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: like do do do? Do? Do? Do? People you know 480 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,159 Speaker 1: who are opposed Give me an example. If you have 481 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 1: one of people that you knew, scientists who quote unquote 482 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,479 Speaker 1: worked for the other side, They helped to tell the 483 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 1: side of the story of the major petroleum companies. They 484 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: were on the other side, who then changed and came 485 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: over to your side. Have you seen any of those? 486 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,360 Speaker 1: Richard Mueller at Berkeley was someone who was in charge 487 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: of the best program that Berkeley Earth Surface temperature program. 488 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,679 Speaker 1: So this was actually a project funded in part by 489 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 1: Koch Brothers and others as a way to go through 490 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: all of the Earth's weather data and say, is this 491 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: hockey stick of warming that's been spoken about so abundantly 492 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,439 Speaker 1: in the I p c C Reports, is that just 493 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 1: a manufactured curve by these leftist scientists. And so they 494 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: established this group, and Richard is somebody I've known for 495 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,959 Speaker 1: a long time, and he's a very good scientist. He's 496 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: a physicist, and he brought on a very good team 497 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 1: of statistician and they went through this one i think, 498 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: with a billion points of weather data and put together 499 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: their own temperature record to great fanfare, and they said, 500 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: we've got the new gold standard. We've you know, where 501 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,120 Speaker 1: this unbiased group and such a great fanfare. They announced 502 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: this saying it was a cover of the wall of 503 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal in the New York Times. Match 504 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 1: the record that Kate generates the one from NASA to it, 505 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: then a hundredth of a degree, it's exactly the same thing. 506 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: And so in the process of this they were asking him, 507 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 1: so what do you feel about climate change? Said oh, yes, 508 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: going on. So it was you know, we wasted though 509 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: five years for this guy to get his funding, to 510 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: get his team together to reanalyze all the data to 511 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: build this whole story to only end up with the 512 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: exact same story that four other groups around the world 513 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: have done. So it's you know, we're back right where 514 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: we started, but we've lost ten years. You have this 515 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: program where you bring climate scientists and to talk to 516 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: investors at the Columbia Business School. What were you hoping 517 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 1: the outcome of that would be. So, as Kate mentioned, 518 00:28:58,240 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: there are things that we can do as individuals, but 519 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: what really matters is a societal shift in behavior. And 520 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: in my opinion, the only way that's going to happen, 521 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: both in the developed world and the developing world, is 522 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: if it's led by the wealthy nations and in particular 523 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: wealthy individuals wealthy companies. So one of the biggest challenges 524 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: is how do we move to a world where we 525 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 1: have embraced more renewables, where we have sufficient battery storage 526 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 1: on the grid. That involves see changes in investments that 527 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: are way beyond what any individual can do. I really 528 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 1: believe in the power of institutions to effect change, and 529 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: you just have to look at um genomic technology, for example, 530 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 1: that was largely led by venture capital folks investing in 531 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: in university research for example. So imagine now if we 532 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: look at this energy problem, which is essentially what the 533 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: global warming problem is, how do you repower the planet? Well, 534 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: you come up with a way of developing developing this 535 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: so that there are investible projects, that there are things 536 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: that can be done tomorrow. Um aggre culture for example, 537 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: one of the biggest risks of climate change is that 538 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: agricultural yields for the four main commodity crops decline with 539 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: every degree of warming, on the order of about five 540 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: depending on the commodity crop. That's a huge thing is 541 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: you're trying to feed a growing world. Your ability to 542 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: do that with known crop strains available today, that's a 543 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: challenge that's going to require investment. And you're only going 544 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: to get that investment when you get large finance institutions 545 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,959 Speaker 1: to recognize and see the opportunity in there for them. 546 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: I work with the United Nations Environmental Program and I 547 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: went to Paris to host the Equator Prize for them. 548 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: You know, one of the things we talked about is 549 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: is about indigenous peoples in the stewardship of rainforest and everything. 550 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: Do you think that that's a factor planting trees to 551 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: remove carbon dioxy from the atmosphere is a factor that 552 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: that's going to make a difference. Absolutely vegetation around the world. Absolutely. 553 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: I mean, trees provide so many valuable services for you 554 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: can't plant enough trees? Um. Well, I mean we can 555 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: stop cutting them down, um, and we should plant more. Um. 556 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: We're not going to be able to keep on as 557 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: we are and just plant our way out of this problem. Um. 558 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: But just because it won't solve everything doesn't mean it's 559 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: not part of the solution. What is your opinion? Each 560 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: of you have nuclear power? Because when I've been a 561 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: very uh carry me out in a box anti nuclear. 562 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: In terms of the utility reactors, the military application is 563 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: a separate one as far as I'm concerned. But the 564 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:34,479 Speaker 1: utility reactors I fought, you know, um, Millstone and Oyster 565 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: Creek and all these ones are the closing BNL on 566 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: Long Island and so forth, and uh, you know, beyond 567 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: the latest in the last couple of decades issues about 568 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: terrorism and the vulnerability of Indian Point Proximate to New 569 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: York City in terms of terrorism. I just think that 570 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: first of all, they're they're not as cost efficient as 571 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: they were advertised years ago, there are these monsters in 572 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: terms of cost fracking, killing them and putting them all 573 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: out of business. But my other biggest argument was the 574 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: lie that the nuclear industry would tell habitually about it 575 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: being a clean source of power, as if nuclear fuel 576 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: rods came off the nuclear fuel rod tree. And you know, 577 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: mining urmanium and processing uranium is one of the dirtiest 578 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: and most fouling processes in the industrial world. So you know, 579 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: other than that, they were like, well, other than the 580 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 1: way we make these rods, this things, this stuff is great. 581 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 1: It just isn't polluted anything. Do you agree? Do you 582 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: think nuclear we need to maintain nuclear? Do we need 583 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: more nuclear? I am agnostic on nuclear power. I'm actually 584 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: willing to be convinced one way or the other because 585 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: it is true that in the course of generating electricity, 586 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: nuclear does not produce carbon dioxide emissions. UM. I think 587 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right that you have to take into account 588 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: mining and enriching the uranium, both of which our energy 589 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: intensive processes. And then the fact that once you turn 590 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: on a nuclear reactor you have a ten thousand, hundred 591 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: thousand year nuclear waste problem. Um. And you have that too, 592 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: and you have to figure out what to do with 593 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: that decontamination, decommissioning. All those companies are going to turn around. 594 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 1: They're gonna sit there and they go, Wow. You know, 595 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: we thought we had set aside enough money, and we 596 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: thought we had government supervised supervised funds where we set 597 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 1: uside enough money, but we really don't. And then we 598 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: can wonder. We can have a lot of handfords all 599 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: around the country. One thing I do want to point 600 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: out is there hasn't been a nuclear reactor built in 601 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: this country in my lifetime. Um, and that is not 602 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: because environmentalists have been mean to nuclear. That's because it's 603 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: not cost of it. It's not if it made money, 604 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: people would do this. And so I kind of think 605 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 1: that how I feel about nuclear doesn't matter. What about you, Peter. 606 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: My My viewpoints are not that different than yours. But 607 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: actually I'd like to also ride this, uh, this middle ground, 608 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: which is that let's put it on the table. Let's 609 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: put it on the table and and have people decide 610 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: and what, and the decision inevitably comes to don't build 611 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: it near me, and then it comes to where we're 612 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: gonna put the storage. I actually got a master's degree 613 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 1: in nuclear waste management and and you know, one of 614 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,239 Speaker 1: the results of my study was that we had no 615 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: place to bury these you know, the idea was to 616 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 1: try to do pursue underseas stories, leaving in in the tanks, 617 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,799 Speaker 1: in the water on the site exactly. And so it's 618 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: a mess that's not cleaned up. And you know, are 619 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: the failed Yuckum mountain Um storage facility is a classic 620 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 1: back right exactly. So here we gave our absolute best effort. 621 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:33,840 Speaker 1: Our top sciences is trying to figure out where to 622 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 1: put this stuff and they couldn't agree. But if you 623 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: asked me, do you want a nuclear plant built next 624 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,359 Speaker 1: door to you or a coal plant? Um, I'd choose 625 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: the nuclear plant every day, because if if you are 626 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 1: interested in harming people, killing people, the best way to 627 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: do that is to build a coal plant. Under the 628 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: umbrella of this idea of how much power do we 629 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 1: need and how we're gonna where we're gonna get it from. 630 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 1: Aren't there parts of the world and aren't there even 631 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,479 Speaker 1: big European countries where they consumption of powers going down? 632 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,840 Speaker 1: It's correct? Yeah, I mean, well, certainly an emissions and 633 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,760 Speaker 1: you know the UK is actually now emitting less carbon 634 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: than it was during Queen Victoria's reign. It's incredible. Uh. 635 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,400 Speaker 1: And there are other you know, countries that are are 636 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: producing more electricity with much less emissions. And so this 637 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 1: um per, this per capita emissions trend is decreasing for 638 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 1: a lot of the um What did they do that 639 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,880 Speaker 1: we should be doing well? So, for example, in Germany, 640 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: there's this widespread adoption of solar and wind to the 641 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: extent that's really unthinkable here. I mean, it's just a 642 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 1: fraction of our energy, or of electricity supply in the 643 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: United States is provided by renewables. You know, it's amazing 644 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:43,800 Speaker 1: to think about this. If if you want to power 645 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:48,320 Speaker 1: the entire nation of the United States with solar, for example, 646 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 1: you need to cover an area roughly the size of Delaware, 647 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 1: a little bit smaller than the solar power for the 648 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 1: entire nation. I have this analogy, and it's like we're 649 00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 1: in a lifeboat and there's somebody on the lifeboat who's 650 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,320 Speaker 1: having a panic attack, who like, while we're sleeping, Larry 651 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 1: over there is drilling a hole in the bottom of 652 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,920 Speaker 1: a lifeboat. And the question becomes, in the lifeboat, what 653 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 1: do we do about Larry? What do we do in 654 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 1: our society about people who don't get it, And I'm 655 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 1: wondering what your thoughts are on that. I think, first off, 656 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,479 Speaker 1: we don't let Larry be the president. That would be 657 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 1: That would be a good first thing, UM. But I 658 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 1: think very few people care deeply where their electricity comes from. 659 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: You flip the lights, which you want the lights to 660 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: come on, You're not like, oh, I really want that 661 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: to be from coal. Another thing that gives me hope is, UM, 662 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,799 Speaker 1: if you look at the generations, if you look at 663 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: what younger people think about climate change, the incidence of 664 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 1: climate denial or climate quote unquote skepticism is so much 665 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 1: smaller in the sort of eight group among the students 666 00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 1: that we work with, the young people that we talked to. 667 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: Young people understand that this is going to be a 668 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 1: problem for future generations. And young people have ordinary, normal, 669 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 1: healthy instincts which they don't learn how to kill to 670 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 1: the end of their thirties. Where that's all about denying reality. 671 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,880 Speaker 1: Who were some of the heroes in government preferably so. 672 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: Right after the election, the Big Conference and Earth Sciences 673 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:25,440 Speaker 1: was in San Francisco and UM the featured speaker was 674 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,400 Speaker 1: Jerry Brown UM and he took the time to come 675 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,479 Speaker 1: and talk to an audience of climate scientists and tell 676 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 1: us that California takes this very seriously. California is going 677 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:42,839 Speaker 1: to be at the forefront of not only research science. Okay, um, 678 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,080 Speaker 1: I've never been pandered too before as a scientist. It 679 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 1: was amazing. I loved it. That was something that gave 680 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 1: me hope and what was kind of a dark time, 681 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 1: what California doing is kind of thrilling where they've always 682 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 1: been ahead of the curve in terms of all kinds 683 00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,279 Speaker 1: of things, you know, auto emissions and stuff with what 684 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,720 Speaker 1: about you? That would have been my choice as well, Jerry. 685 00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 1: I mean, he's an absolute hero, absolute leader. And Sheldon 686 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,560 Speaker 1: white House is really very strong as a Senator from 687 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,440 Speaker 1: Rhode Island, very brave in terms of getting his voice out. 688 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 1: He's taking on the administration and but he's a lone 689 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 1: voice out there. And I think so much of what 690 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: needs to be communicated to the American people right now 691 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,279 Speaker 1: as unity, it's really missing in all of our discussions 692 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 1: as we are one country. What is the language, what 693 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,360 Speaker 1: is the narrative that's required to bring us together? And 694 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 1: that's why I like this Green New Deal articulation, which 695 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:38,360 Speaker 1: is that it's something that really embraces the combined wealth, 696 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,280 Speaker 1: the combined goodwill, the common purpose that exists in this country. 697 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 1: That did for FDR. The same week as we recorded 698 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 1: this interview, The New York Times ran this headline, Trump 699 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 1: Administration's strategy on climate try to bury its own scientific report. 700 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 1: That report discussed the huge human tragedy facing us if 701 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:08,880 Speaker 1: we don't take action, poverty, starvation, and even more refugee crises. 702 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,760 Speaker 1: We owe a debt of gratitude to people who dedicate 703 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,840 Speaker 1: their lives to preventing these tragedies. So thank you to 704 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:21,719 Speaker 1: my guests Peter Domenical of Columbia's Earth Institute, and Kate 705 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 1: Marvel of Columbia and NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies. 706 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin, and you were listening to Here's 707 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:33,399 Speaker 1: the thing