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Speaker 1: Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebine, a space where no

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Speaker 1: question is off limits and storylines become lifelines. The views

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Speaker 1: shared by our guests are meant to inform, entertain and empower.

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Speaker 1: From the laughs to the lessons, Just remember, tough times

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Speaker 1: don't last, but professional homegirls do enjoy the show.

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Speaker 2: What's up, y'all?

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Speaker 3: Is shagarra Ebine here and I hope all is cute? Okay,

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Speaker 3: dal So, I am so excited to welcome Katira Washington

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Speaker 3: Patten's Pretty Private with Ebina. Katira is an accomplished author, speaker, minister,

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Speaker 3: and advocate whose work continues to shape conversations around faith

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Speaker 3: and emotional well being. In this episode, we dive into

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Speaker 3: her amazing book. Y'all, please make sure you click the

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Speaker 3: link in the show notes below title Navigating the Blues.

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Speaker 3: Where to Turn when worry, anxiety, or depression steals your hope. Together,

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Speaker 3: we explore the realities of mental health, the role of

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Speaker 3: faith during difficult seasons, and the practical tools that Katerira

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Speaker 3: offers for finding strength when life feels extremely overwhelming. Y'all,

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Speaker 3: this conversation is filled with wisdom, compassion, and just a

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Speaker 3: reminder that none of us have to Navigate the Blues alone.

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Speaker 3: So get ready because Navigating the Blues with Katerira Washington

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Speaker 3: Patten starts now.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, y'all.

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Speaker 3: So I am so excited to welcome my guest, Katira

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Speaker 3: Washington Patten on the show. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 3: being on the show, like I am, Like I was

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Speaker 3: just telling her off the air, like I love her

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Speaker 3: book what we're going to talk about, and I have

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Speaker 3: her other books that I cannot wait to have her

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Speaker 3: to come back on. So thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: How are you feeling. How you doing?

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Speaker 4: I'm doing great? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Now before you begin talking about your book, I want

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Speaker 3: to start with your upbringing. Was mental health talk about

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Speaker 3: in your household or just in your community growing up?

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Speaker 2: I know, right.

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Speaker 4: When not? I mean maybe little whispers of it, And honestly,

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Speaker 4: when it was talked about, it was not in a

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Speaker 4: healthy and holistic way. It was that person's crazy or

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Speaker 4: whoo they way too depressed or yeah, I in fact

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Speaker 4: didn't express when I was sad because it was kind

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Speaker 4: of frowned upon. No, my background, my upbringing did not

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Speaker 4: treat me in a holistic way or anyone. Really, it

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Speaker 4: was a personal thing. It's just something we didn't talk about.

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Speaker 2: That's my next question.

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Speaker 3: Do you remember like being sad or anxious as a

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Speaker 3: child when you was growing up, even if you didn't

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Speaker 3: have lengthag.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I do, and in fact, I think about what

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Speaker 4: I wanted to be. I told my daughter recently, I

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Speaker 4: wanted to be a child and adolescent psychologist. And that's

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Speaker 4: not because I thought that was some great career, but

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Speaker 4: I felt like I needed someone to talk to, and

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Speaker 4: so I wanted to be that person for myself, and

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Speaker 4: I kind of steered away from it. But I do

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Speaker 4: remember having small bouts as a child of sadness, and

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Speaker 4: as a young adult I did also, and in fact,

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Speaker 4: my best friend remembers I marked it. I got laid

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Speaker 4: off one day and I was like, ooh, I'm glad

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Speaker 4: I didn't get laid off two weeks ago because I

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Speaker 4: was in a real bad place, and she was like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I remember that. So I had bouts of it throughout my.

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Speaker 3: Lind looking back, because I remember when I was a kid,

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Speaker 3: like obviously, mental health wasn't as popular as it is now,

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Speaker 3: so when I was growing up, like I remember like

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Speaker 3: seeing like my parents or like seeing like people are

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Speaker 3: older people having different copa mechanisms.

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Speaker 2: So do you.

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Speaker 3: Remember seeing people growing up like having their own ways

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Speaker 3: of coping with things that we now recognize as depression.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I probably sleep a whole lot, staying in your room,

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Speaker 4: alcohol and drugs. I mean, that's one of our big issues,

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Speaker 4: over eating, eating the bad things, just not taking care

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Speaker 4: of yourself. Maybe some of our behaviors were actually deprecating

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Speaker 4: because we were not happy, we were not all this.

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Speaker 4: So I reading in a wonderful fiction book by bb

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Speaker 4: Moore Campbell, a late, wonderful, great writer. She said someone

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Speaker 4: had cancer and she was like, why didn't she take

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Speaker 4: better care of herself? Not because she got the cancer,

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Speaker 4: but when she got the cancer? And it was that

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Speaker 4: statement just rung out to me long time ago, and

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Speaker 4: it meant that this woman opted not to do the

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Speaker 4: best for herself. There was something going on that makes

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Speaker 4: you say that and wants you to You want to

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Speaker 4: do that, You either want to opt out of life.

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Speaker 4: And it's not necessarily even suicide. It's not even saying

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna kill myself, but I'm not gonna do what's

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Speaker 4: best for me all the time. So that's a level

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Speaker 4: I believe of mental illness, of just being kind of

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Speaker 4: in the dumps and not having the energy and the

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Speaker 4: wherewithal to fully take care of care of ourselves to

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Speaker 4: the best about it.

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Speaker 3: You know, that's not funny that you brought her up,

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Speaker 3: because my grandma was like a huge fan of hers,

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Speaker 3: and I was a huge fan of her daughters, the

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Speaker 3: actor Maya Campbell. Yes, yeah, she's so for some yeah.

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Speaker 4: Too, and b B. Moore. Campbell wrote a whole book

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Speaker 4: seventy two Hour Holds I think it was called. And

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Speaker 4: her issues were very severe and needed medical attention too.

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Speaker 4: I just recently heard that she was doing well.

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Speaker 3: I followed she just had a birthday. Think she just

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Speaker 3: turned like forty one, forty too. I've been trying to

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Speaker 3: get her on the show. So let's keep on. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: shout out to her.

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Speaker 4: She has plenty to talk about. I would love to

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Speaker 4: hear about her me too. I like her too.

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Speaker 3: So what made you feel ready to open up and

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Speaker 3: share your story about depression with others?

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Speaker 4: Oh, that's a great question. I was actually just thinking

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Speaker 4: through it a little bit. It happened, I did. It's

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Speaker 4: kind of like I was invited to speak at a

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Speaker 4: women's conference. I'm a minister and I do preaching and

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Speaker 4: different things, and I just didn't want it to be

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Speaker 4: the same old thing. I was like, you know, you

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Speaker 4: go to these women's conferences and what are you talking about.

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Speaker 4: So I really prayed and said, oh God, give me

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Speaker 4: a subject that will help people, that will resonate with people.

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Speaker 4: I decided. I prayed, and I felt like you should

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Speaker 4: talk about depression. I was like, what am I to say, Like,

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Speaker 4: I'm depressed, I'm sad, and so I put it on Facebook.

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Speaker 4: I literally made a post and I said, I'm coming

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Speaker 4: out of the closet. I'm talking about depression at this retreat.

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Speaker 4: And people were like, I need your notes. I need

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Speaker 4: to know what you're going to say. And people were

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Speaker 4: in my inbox, relatives, old friends, Oh my gosh, thank

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Speaker 4: you for saying this. I need this.

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Speaker 2: I wrote down.

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Speaker 4: Believe this was two thousand and ten or eleven my

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Speaker 4: daughter was born. You know how you can trace things

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Speaker 4: by your kid's age. But I remember some of the

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Speaker 4: points I said was I had a numb feeling. I

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Speaker 4: didn't feel like doing even the things I loved. It

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Speaker 4: was hard to get going, hard to get out of bed.

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Speaker 4: And I just looked in the book I'm a cheerful person.

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Speaker 4: I'm a normally cheerful person. I can wear the mask

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Speaker 4: long enough to pol people. But I knew deep down

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Speaker 4: I was not living my best life. I was not

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Speaker 4: living in color. I was living and gray. And the

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Speaker 4: amount of people who really resonated with that. And you

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Speaker 4: can see when you speaking to people, when you say

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Speaker 4: something that really gets to and they light up because

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Speaker 4: and that made me say, oh my gosh, this is

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Speaker 4: something that I really need to continue to do. And

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Speaker 4: at that time, I probably was just emerging out of it.

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Speaker 4: You go through phases with depression, at least I did,

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Speaker 4: and I was probably just emerging out of it. But

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Speaker 4: it really kind of propelled me to dig deeper and say, oh,

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Speaker 4: if you're going to talk about this, if you're going

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Speaker 4: to talk about being whole and healthy, you're going to

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Speaker 4: have to really do it. And because you got to

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Speaker 4: be authentic, right, So it actually helped me. And I

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Speaker 4: still didn't writ Navigating the Blues until it was doing

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Speaker 4: the pandemic. Yeah, yeah, it took YEP and it was published.

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Speaker 4: I think the pup date is two twenty oh two

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Speaker 4: or twenty oh three, the beginning of that year. So yeah,

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Speaker 4: I had wanted to write about it. I remember there

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Speaker 4: was even a time I wrote a piece and I

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Speaker 4: broke down crying because it was a lot of it

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Speaker 4: was mingled with grief for me, with the loss of

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Speaker 4: my mom in two thousand and six. So I wrote

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Speaker 4: that piece and I had to shut the laptop down

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Speaker 4: and cry. So I was not that time. But later

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Speaker 4: on things aligned and someone and the team I worked with,

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Speaker 4: they were great. They came up with that title Navigating

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Speaker 4: the Blues. So it was just a real blessing. And

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Speaker 4: I hear people say they've been blessed by it, and

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Speaker 4: it just it's a reminder that our trials and our tribulations,

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Speaker 4: what we go through, can really serve to help other people. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I actually have a friend she just lost her mother

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Speaker 3: and oh man, this dance she doing with grief, and

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Speaker 3: so I've been like a soundboard to her because I

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Speaker 3: lost my grandmother I want to say, like seven eight

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Speaker 3: years ago. And one of the things I told her

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Speaker 3: about your book. But one of the things that I

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Speaker 3: was telling her because she was like, does to get

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Speaker 3: better with time? And I was like, no, you just

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Speaker 3: learned how to deal better, deal with it better. And

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Speaker 3: so yeah, and she's like a Bible thumper. So when

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Speaker 3: I was reading your Yeah, So, when I'm reading your book,

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Speaker 3: she was like, I'm a Christian, I shouldn't have to

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Speaker 3: deal with this, Like I fast, I did all these things.

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Speaker 3: And I actually read this part to her in your

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Speaker 3: book on page eleven, when you said, you know, let

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Speaker 3: me begin by stayton, I'm a Christian who has suffered

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Speaker 3: with depression for many years. Some of those years I

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Speaker 3: suddenly slept more than I care to admit, evening, much

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Speaker 3: more than I should have, especially chocolate.

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Speaker 2: We all love chocolate.

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Speaker 3: And walked around me too, and I love cheap chocolate, right,

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Speaker 3: but you said, and I walked around just feeling numb.

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Speaker 3: And that's why I was telling her. I was like, girls,

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Speaker 3: just because you're a Christian doesn't mean that you're not.

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Speaker 2: Supposed to suffer. I'm like, we all go through it.

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Speaker 4: All go through through it, and with grief. I think

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Speaker 4: I was doing an interview for Navigating the Blues when

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Speaker 4: this thought fully came to me. Is I think as

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Speaker 4: Christians we sometimes focus so much on eternal life that

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Speaker 4: we don't think about life those who we leave behind,

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Speaker 4: Like my mother does not want to come back to

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Speaker 4: this earth today. I'm telling you now how she's so

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Speaker 4: hap she lived for this moment, and I think we

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Speaker 4: were We knew that, but we didn't realize the whole

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Speaker 4: that her absence would leave with us. So it kind

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Speaker 4: of took us by surprise because we were Christians. We

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Speaker 4: were so focused on that's what you do. So Christians

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Speaker 4: are saying, this is the promise of eternal life, but yeah,

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Speaker 4: you still have to live in the in between time

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Speaker 4: until y'all united again and thens are happy. So it

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Speaker 4: really sideswiped us a lot.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then you also mentioned about how you had

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Speaker 3: a hard time or I guess your friends didn't know

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Speaker 3: that you was having these feelings and stuff.

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Speaker 2: And then when you told your friend your homegirl was

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Speaker 2: like Jesus in the Bible.

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Speaker 4: And that particular quote which I kept laughed about, I

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Speaker 4: read that recently. I was like, she didn't know she

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Speaker 4: was helping me write a book. That came because it

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Speaker 4: was a couple of events around that twenty oh four,

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Speaker 4: twenty oh five, twenty oh six time that really got

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Speaker 4: me low one. And I had been in seminary, which

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Speaker 4: is kind of ironic as well. I had been going

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Speaker 4: a seminary for three years working full time work, going

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Speaker 4: to school, driving commute, and trying to have a life

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Speaker 4: working at a church. I was burnt out. Yeah, then

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Speaker 4: that was disappointment from a job I was supposed to

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Speaker 4: be promoted after I finished seminary. So you do all

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Speaker 4: that and then you don't get it. And then later

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Speaker 4: I got it. But by that point you were spent

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Speaker 4: from having to work to get it right. And I

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Speaker 4: was in a relationship that ended for a couple of

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Speaker 4: reasons that really set me back and made me say, WHOA.

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Speaker 2: And you did some pretty dumb things. I'm like, what

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Speaker 2: did you do with terror?

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Speaker 4: Let me tell you. I'll be I'll be general right.

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Speaker 4: My girlfriend and I we probably should write about this.

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Speaker 4: We wrote a script. When you think the person is

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Speaker 4: who you want them to be and you don't see

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Speaker 4: them for who they really are, I'll just stop right there,

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Speaker 4: because you instead of meeting the people person for who

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Speaker 4: they are, you meet them for who you built up

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Speaker 4: in your head or the story that told yourself. So

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Speaker 4: then when it hit me, I was like, that's crazy.

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Speaker 4: All throughout that relationship, I was depressed. I told him

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Speaker 4: I was depressed. I knew I was. I knew I

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Speaker 4: was not myself. And some people can use that to

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Speaker 4: their advantage because they know if they keep you in

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Speaker 4: a certain space, if you don't come to yourself, you

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Speaker 4: might not realize what's happening in here, nothing for who

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Speaker 4: they really are, exactly right, They can take advantage of that.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, and I thought I was a pretty secure warmer.

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Speaker 2: Around me.

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Speaker 4: That was also a science wife, but all even. And

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Speaker 4: so that's where that quote came from my girlfriend. So

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Speaker 4: after that realization, when I came to myself and I

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Speaker 4: started saying I'm gonna go get therapy, that was a

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Speaker 4: really good friend asked me, what were you thinking all that?

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Speaker 4: And that's a great question because that puts owner ship

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Speaker 4: on myself, not not just on that person. So I

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Speaker 4: wanted to get therapy, and I was telling a friend

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Speaker 4: about it and she was like, uh huh, all you

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Speaker 4: need is Jesus in your Bible. And I do think

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Speaker 4: she was coming from the gilt gold girl generation of men.

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Speaker 4: Don't have to send us to therapy. Just because you

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Speaker 4: had a breakup, don't mean you have to go to therapy. Well, no,

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Speaker 4: I was going deeper. I wasn't talking about him. I

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Speaker 4: was talking about what made me stay in that relationship.

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Speaker 4: I need to work on Katera forget him. I mean,

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Speaker 4: you know, he was done. But so that's the place

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Speaker 4: I was coming from. She was coming from. No black

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Speaker 4: girl positivity or girl woman positivity or whatever made anything

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Speaker 4: harmful from it. But it could have hindered me. It

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Speaker 4: could have made me say, well, maybe I don't need therapy.

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Speaker 4: Maybe I do just need to pray and read my Bible.

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Speaker 4: I was praying and read my Bible already. And I

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Speaker 4: did have a very good friend. So I do like

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Speaker 4: to show all sides of my friendships. I had a

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Speaker 4: friend who prayed for me. She was like, we're gonna

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Speaker 4: pray you find a right therapist. I was like, that's

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Speaker 4: what I'm talking about. So, yeah, it was. It was

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Speaker 4: a couple of things. And then right after I started

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Speaker 4: going to therapy, I remember I had stopped. I felt better,

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Speaker 4: my mom died. All that therapist up quickly, and I

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Speaker 4: remember going to her office and just letting it all

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Speaker 4: go come out. Something I needed to you.

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Speaker 3: Actually, yeah, A couple of questions, are you are you

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Speaker 3: and a homegirl? Y'all still friends?

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Speaker 4: We are I still acquainted? That is a weird relationship

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Speaker 4: for other reasons, not because she told me not to

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Speaker 4: go to therapy. Yeah, but and the truth of it is,

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Speaker 4: and not to put all the business out there. Sometimes

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Speaker 4: when you get hold, you got to be ready for

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Speaker 4: people who are not ready to be whole to not

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Speaker 4: want to be anymore. And that's okay too, because that's

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Speaker 4: a part of Yeah, it's not gonna stop me from

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Speaker 4: being whole, but some of us are different places in

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Speaker 4: our journeys willing to work on ourselves. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Facts, facts. And the second thing I was going to

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Speaker 3: say was how many times did you did it take

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Speaker 3: you to find a right therapist? Because it took me.

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Speaker 4: A great question when we just said, I'm gonna write

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Speaker 4: that down though, I'm gonna talk about the therapists finding

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Speaker 4: the friend, talking about that just a little bit, because

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Speaker 4: I want to free people. I want to help us, us,

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Speaker 4: especially those of us thinking about these things. Right after

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Speaker 4: my timeline is funny. Two thousand and six, my mama died,

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Speaker 4: I went back to therapy. I met my husband in

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Speaker 4: two thousand and seven, I met the man who would

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Speaker 4: later become a husband in two thousand and eight, and

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Speaker 4: then that would free me to have a child and

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Speaker 4: everything I do believe the therapy positioned me to receive

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Speaker 4: my husband better. My other girlfriend, even as I was

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Speaker 4: talking to her just gotten engaged, she was like, kueara,

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Speaker 4: you sound so different, you sound so grown. I was like, this,

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Speaker 4: three years of therapy, that's talking right here. So when

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Speaker 4: you do begin to work on yourself and clean up

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Speaker 4: and do whatever the hard work is, it can position

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Speaker 4: you to be in a place to receive much better.

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Speaker 4: And I may not have been ready to receive my

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Speaker 4: current husband had I not done all of that work.

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Speaker 4: So I'm so thankful for therapy, and truthfully, I'm thankful

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Speaker 4: for the road of because it laid led me there. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: calapis evan Nay. I am a really practical person. I

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Speaker 4: know that about myself. Convenience is high for me. I

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Speaker 4: looked in my company's directory at the time. First I

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Speaker 4: wanted to know which ones I could go to for free.

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Speaker 4: You know the what is it is it? Ep? I

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Speaker 4: forget the name. When when you can get benefits toward

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Speaker 4: mental yes, yeah, And so at the time we had

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Speaker 4: that at the company I was at, so I already

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Speaker 4: saw that I could get like ten sessions free. So

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Speaker 4: I was like, okay, I'm located at this address at work.

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Speaker 4: I'm right, let me see what address is close to

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Speaker 4: that within market distance. I could go at lunchtime or

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Speaker 4: go right after work. And that's really how I found her.

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Speaker 4: But that prayer that my girlfriend did, I think stealed

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Speaker 4: it for me. I prayed that God would lead me

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Speaker 4: to the right person, and she was really kind. That

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Speaker 4: my girlfriend was really into a Christian therapist. I didn't

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Speaker 4: feel that I needed a Christian therapist because I was like,

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Speaker 4: I'm a Christian, I know what I believe. I don't

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Speaker 4: need anybody else. But what we did pray for was

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Speaker 4: that even if that person didn't believe like I believe,

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Speaker 4: that she wouldn't try to talk my belief away. And

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Speaker 4: she never did. She was actually a Catholic woman, and

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Speaker 4: she is a Catholic woman, I know that. But she

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Speaker 4: was very helpful in just asking me questions about why

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Speaker 4: do you feel that way, what things about your upbringing

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Speaker 4: may have brought you to this space, and so yeah,

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Speaker 4: she was very good. So I really went the practical route.

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Speaker 4: I found somebody close to my job, somebody that was

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Speaker 4: covered under the insurance benefit, and we just really vibed well.

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Speaker 4: And that was in twenty. I think my first appointment

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Speaker 4: was probably two thousand and four or five, and I

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Speaker 4: literally lopped to her a couple of months ago when

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Speaker 4: I just needed a quick checkup. Hey, you know this

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Speaker 4: is what I'm dealing with. I want to remain whole

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Speaker 4: and healthy. Yeah, talk about this, And she gave me

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Speaker 4: one little quote, one little word, and I was like,

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Speaker 4: that's it. My husband does. She's like, I could have

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Speaker 4: given it. You could have given me twenty five hours for.

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Speaker 2: That right, right, five dollar thing.

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Speaker 4: But sometimes you just need to say it and you

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Speaker 4: need to hear from someone else you have that question.

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Speaker 4: So throughout these years, I've kept in touch with her.

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Speaker 4: I didn't I don't go all the time like I

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Speaker 4: used to, Like I was on a weekly basis. Me too,

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Speaker 4: throws not it, but now it's kind of like check

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Speaker 4: up basis when I need it.

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Speaker 3: What's up, y'all, it's your girl eb and A here,

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Speaker 3: and be sure to follow me on Instagram and TikTok

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Speaker 3: at pretty private podcasts, and don't forget to subscribe to

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Speaker 3: my YouTube channel at the Professional Homegirl. Now let's get

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Speaker 3: back to the show. Therapy definitely helped save my life

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Speaker 3: because after my grandmother passed away. I went into a

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Speaker 3: really deep depression because not only did I lose somebody

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Speaker 3: that I was absolutely in life with, but also that

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Speaker 3: was my first time ever experiencing depth like that before.

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Speaker 3: So I was going to therapy for a very long time,

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Speaker 3: like going like every week, and then I stopped. But

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Speaker 3: I've been thinking about going back and just having like

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Speaker 3: little check ins becuz I feel like, yeah, right, especially

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Speaker 3: with everything that's going on, I just want to just

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Speaker 3: go and talk to her. And then she's always like

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Speaker 3: a big sister to me. She's an older woman, she's black,

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Speaker 3: so it's like, you know she can be able.

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Speaker 4: To start that she already knows you. Yeah, I used

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Speaker 4: to say, and I said this in one of my

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Speaker 4: first speeches on depression, is sometimes we think we could

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Speaker 4: just talk to our girlfriends, right, We like, girl, let's

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Speaker 4: go get coffee, let's get to whatever, and that's fine.

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Speaker 4: But that turns in oh yeah, I had that happen

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Speaker 4: to me too, because that's a conversation, right, Like I

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Speaker 4: say one thing, you say something else, and that's what

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Speaker 4: we do. I need to pay somebody and just listen.

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Speaker 2: Right, I don't want to hear about you.

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Speaker 4: My main purpose for forty five minutes, I used to

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Speaker 4: say fifty. They were like, oh no, we're going down

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Speaker 4: forty five minutes now. For forty five minutes is to

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Speaker 4: ask me, how is Kata doing? What is Katera thinking?

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Speaker 4: Go deeper in that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but also do you think like this whole

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Speaker 3: like black girl magic strope, like, do you think that

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Speaker 3: plays a part in our mental health? Because I had

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Speaker 3: a conversation with this other girl years ago and she

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Speaker 3: was telling me how she was like suicidal, and she

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Speaker 3: said the reason why is because she was like I

406
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Speaker 3: always was the one who made the perfect grades. I

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Speaker 3: was very like competitive. I was always the one who

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Speaker 3: did really well. And then the moment I didn't perform

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Speaker 3: the way that I thought I should have, it broke me.

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Speaker 3: And I'm hearing that from a lot of black women.

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Speaker 4: That is that's a great question. I think, yes and

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Speaker 4: yes and yes. That has a lot to do with

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Speaker 4: at our expectations, the expectations we put on our sets,

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Speaker 4: the mask we wear. For me a very critical time

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Speaker 4: And this wasn't deep depression, I don't think, but was

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Speaker 4: right when I graduated from school and went to work,

417
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Speaker 4: I had been used to do greats. You know you you.

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Speaker 4: I made good grades all my life throughout college, I

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Speaker 4: made good grades. And then I get into a workplace

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Speaker 4: and my first performance review was meet expectations. I was like,

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Speaker 4: oh my gosh, that's a seat right in my mind.

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Speaker 4: Little did I know the company was planning for a

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Speaker 4: layoff later on. And you got to do meats expectations right,

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Speaker 4: because nobody tells you that. You can't see that until

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Speaker 4: you've gone through it and looking back. But yeah, that

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Speaker 4: was definitely a big part of it. And again the

427
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Speaker 4: part about working on yourself, working on your own ponents.

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Speaker 4: You did do that issue. Why do I have to

429
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Speaker 4: prove I'm smart to you? Can I believe it? I

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Speaker 4: live in it. Can I do what that means for

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Speaker 4: me and forget about what you say, Oh, that's that's

432
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 4: true black girl magic. But a lot of times we're

433
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,159
Speaker 4: not doing that in a work because black girl magic,

434
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:54,680
Speaker 4: as much as I love to say and I kind

435
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 4: of feel like my girl is black girl magic back there,

436
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 4: it is a level of positivity that doesn't always go

437
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 4: deep and deal with truth. It's dealing with oh no,

438
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 4: I got it, girl, I'm this, I'm that. Yes you

439
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 4: are sis, But there's also some internal stuff, yes, to

440
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:18,199
Speaker 4: be healed and performance. How are you going to have

441
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 4: relationships so long? If you all that? Yeah, why didn't

442
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 4: you see your and understand your work? I know we

443
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 4: could ask a lot of us that question. Why are

444
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 4: you still there?

445
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,919
Speaker 2: Facts wo, even in a relationship.

446
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 4: I don't know your business like that.

447
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 3: I know you're right though you're right, you're right. So

448
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 3: how did depression show up in your life?

449
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,880
Speaker 4: Oh? Goodness, Like I said, I think a lot of it.

450
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,919
Speaker 4: Sometimes it was little spurts, and I think that was

451
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 4: more like sadness or the blues, because we know there's

452
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 4: such a big raine. I think that was just sadness

453
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 4: of the blues and I'd eventually get over it. But

454
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 4: my therapist said, when I told her, how long when

455
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 4: I told her some of my symptoms, how long have

456
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 4: you been feeling numb? How long have you been feeling

457
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 4: like you're not yourself? I said for a stretch of

458
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,919
Speaker 4: three to five years. She was like, that's a long time. Yeah,

459
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:18,360
Speaker 4: that is depression. That's not it's a rough day. It's

460
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 4: not even situational like with the grief sometimes that can

461
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 4: be situational. You gotta work through that. But I was

462
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 4: just not myself, and I didn't like that feeling because,

463
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 4: again going back to the Black Girl magic, I was

464
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 4: used to being the girl. I was used to feeling

465
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 4: the part as well as presenting the part. Now I

466
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 4: probably was still presenting the part to some people, but

467
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 4: I felt it in my spirit. I felt in fact,

468
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 4: I have a picture of I did a bio you

469
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 4: know when you do your little bio pics. My eyes

470
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:54,679
Speaker 4: looked like they were dead almost. My eyes looked like

471
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,959
Speaker 4: they had no life. I'm a lot person. I remember

472
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 4: even the photographer when he was taking the p he

473
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 4: knew me. He was like, this not has She's not like,

474
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 4: is not coming through? And your eyes will tell the truth.

475
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 4: Now you look at your pictures, you could see when

476
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 4: you're really happy and when you're just kind of faking it.

477
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,640
Speaker 4: So that was probably I was in seminary and right

478
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 4: after seminary and again doing too much. Yeah, you're thinking

479
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 4: you're following a calling. The seminary was a calling on

480
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 4: my life. I'm doing the right thing. You're thinking prosperity,

481
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 4: you're thinking goodness, you're thinking good things supposed to happen.

482
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 4: But no, you know, the enemy got in there too,

483
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 4: and I said, disappointment from the job, disappointment from oh

484
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 4: this is what I ran to school for what's happening here,

485
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 4: disappointment from relationships, disappointment in me. And truthfully, I think

486
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 4: the relationship added to the depression because I was masking it.

487
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 4: And I say, that is navigating the blues. Don't make

488
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 4: big decisions when you know you're not yourself. I knew

489
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 4: I was not myself, so going out with that person,

490
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 4: agreeing to date them was not in my character, but

491
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 4: it was a distraction. It was something I did to

492
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 4: just be like, maybe I'll feel better. But all throughout

493
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 4: the relationship, I remember laying on the floor. I just

494
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 4: don't feel like myself. I was not myself and I

495
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,919
Speaker 4: knew it. And when I finally faced it and said, Okay,

496
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 4: we're gonna go get some help, that's when some of

497
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 4: the healings started to work. But it took three years

498
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 4: at least of therapy of working through I had some

499
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 4: days better than others. She told me I was working out.

500
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 4: She was like, don't stop that. Keep doing that. Figure

501
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 4: out how to fit it in. She told me to

502
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 4: try to eat better, but she was really very kind.

503
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 4: She was like don't over focus on it, because it's

504
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 4: really hard to stay on an eating plan when your

505
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 4: mind is all over the place. I think that's a

506
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 4: big part of our emotional eating. You're trying to do something,

507
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 4: but you're not even right yet. Yeah.

508
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, so yeah, you know, when I was doing researching

509
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 3: on you and thedn read more about your story because

510
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 3: I know you grew up in the church because your

511
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 3: dad was a senior deacon and your mom was a

512
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 3: Sunday school teacher. Yeah, so I can only imagine attention

513
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 3: you felt balancing your faith but also trying to figure

514
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 3: out what's going on with your mental health.

515
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely, my mom. I think she knew because my

516
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 4: mom was like that. I remember her right when I

517
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,439
Speaker 4: started therapy. I never told her I went to therapy,

518
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 4: but I said, yeah, somebody told me to do this.

519
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 4: She was like, who told you that? I was like,

520
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 4: and then I like glossed over it or whatever. Every

521
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 4: now and then I call her and she was like, oh,

522
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 4: what's wrong? And then the next day I called her

523
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 4: sounded better. She was like, now you sound like yourself.

524
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 4: So your mama knows when you're feeling like yourself and

525
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 4: when you're not. She never pushed me. She saw the

526
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 4: weight gain, she commented about that, she commented about the relationship,

527
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 4: but she never said, oh, I think you're depressed or

528
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 4: something like that. But I do think she thought she

529
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,199
Speaker 4: knew something was wrong with me. I even today, my

530
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 4: father's still living and he's I think I sent him

531
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 4: the book and I sent him some of our videos

532
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,920
Speaker 4: we've done by He's never really mentioned it, not very

533
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 4: open about talking about those things. But my sister and

534
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 4: my brother and my extended family has they've read the

535
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 4: book too, and they've been sometimes that they've actually had

536
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 4: gone through depression.

537
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, why do you think your mom?

538
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess the church and the upbringing, but

539
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 3: like she knew something was wrong with you and your dad?

540
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 3: Like why do you think they never like talked about it?

541
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 3: Because I'm their mental health issues too, right right?

542
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 4: I And actually my therapist said that theraps, So your

543
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 4: mom probably was depressed too at some point, and so

544
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 4: she kind of normalized depression. But I do think, and

545
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 4: I don't know because I never had this conversation with

546
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 4: my mom, but I could speculate that she was from

547
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 4: that school of pick it up, pushed through keeping the girl,

548
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 4: you know, like pray. Let us know. I believe my

549
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 4: mom would have said, you got your Bible in your

550
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 4: prayer life because she did that. That's probably how she

551
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 4: got through some stuff. And truthfully, you know, she she

552
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 4: died because of complications of diabetes, so there was that eating.

553
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 4: She probably coped in a different way that And I'm

554
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 4: trying to be different in a good way, yeah, and

555
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 4: all adopt all goodness, and I also be different in

556
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 4: the things that perhaps were deficient. So I do believe

557
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 4: mental emotional eating was a way she coped, and clearly

558
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 4: I coped that way as well. But I'm trying to

559
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 4: work on ways of not only turn into food when

560
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 4: when I'm dealing with something emotional. Yeah.

561
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 3: And another thing I feel like a lot of people

562
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 3: say because even when I was going through because I

563
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 3: didn't have the language, like something was wrong with me

564
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 3: or I was feeling sad of the press, and people

565
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 3: will always say, well, you're not praying hard enough and you

566
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 3: trust God, And I'm like, girl, i think God's pretty

567
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 3: aware of what's going on with me. But I'm like,

568
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 3: why do people always.

569
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 4: In the in the book I tear it apart?

570
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 2: You do, my lord?

571
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 4: My Lord? Why I'm forsaken me. And then Elijah Elijha,

572
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 4: I mean fir King's nineteen. If you just read that

573
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 4: chapter from a new lens, you will not say depression

574
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 4: does not happen to faithful people. Elijah had been Elijah

575
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 4: had told Ahab, come on with your bail. He had

576
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 4: challenged him, and Elijah had just come back from really

577
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 4: the high point of his ministry. And then when Jezebel said,

578
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 4: oh we I'm gonna get you, he got scared and

579
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 4: he wanted to die. It's literally in the scripture. He

580
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 4: was like, Lord, take my life. So that's depression. He

581
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 4: was tired, excuse me, he was worn out. And I

582
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 4: loved that chapter because I get something from it every

583
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 4: time I re read it. Now, God gives him a

584
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 4: prescription just to let down, rest, get some bread and

585
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 4: some water. So there we are. That's God's prescription for

586
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 4: us in a lot of times. Sometimes it's take a break,

587
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 4: step back, slow down, get some breasts and eat. And

588
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 4: then it shows how we exaggerate when we have depression,

589
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 4: because what Elijah said, oh Lord, I'm the only one

590
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 4: serving you, and God was like, oh no, shake the caves.

591
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 4: I've hidden some profits back there, So I say that

592
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 4: about myself. I know that. That's why don't make decisions

593
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 4: when I'm in the in the throes of it, because

594
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 4: everything will be exaggerated. Oh Lord, he don't love me,

595
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 4: he don't do this, he don't whatever. Everything is going

596
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 4: to be exaggerated because of where your mental state is

597
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 4: right there, And it happened to Elijah. Yeah, a faithful

598
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 4: man of God and David. Don't start us on David

599
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 4: now his psalms are reaking with issues. So yeah, why do.

600
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 3: You think when it comes to like biblical figures who

601
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 3: have struggled emotionally, why don't you think we always overlooked

602
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 3: their pain?

603
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 2: Like we're the first ever experience pain.

604
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 4: What it's the lens we're looking at it at And

605
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 4: that's why I know God called me to experience this,

606
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 4: because I can come from my experience. I've read First

607
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 4: Kings nineteen before, and until I started doing the research

608
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 4: on depression, I hadn't pulled that out. I had just heard, Oh,

609
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 4: Jezebel got Elijah mad. You know it's the lens you're

610
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 4: looking and reading the Biblical storage from because back in

611
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 4: the day, all we would do was talking about how

612
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 4: bad Josebel was. She was a bad woman. She influenced

613
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 4: her husband. My mama used to say she wore red

614
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 4: lipstick and red bingingnail polish, and then one man wear red.

615
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 4: That was the lens she was coming at it from.

616
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 4: I have a different experience. Praise God, and that's why

617
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 4: I'm called to share it and talk about it. But

618
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 4: my experience looked at that and saw that this man

619
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 4: asked God to take his life. So I was able

620
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 4: to equate that to depression. A long time ago, I

621
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 4: saw my God, my God, while hast thou forsaken me?

622
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 4: And the first time I preached from that text was

623
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 4: actually as a chaplain as a part of my seminary training.

624
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 4: I was a chaplain and I talked because I was

625
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 4: talking to people in pain, and so my lens changed.

626
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 4: You know, before I saw that scriptures Jesus Christ on

627
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 4: the cross dying for us. Look at him, he's a martyr.

628
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 4: But now I see it as, Oh, he's a human

629
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 4: who's very hurt, who feels like God has forsaken him.

630
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 4: My experience shaped the way I saw that verse in

631
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 4: the Bible is the Bible, right, and it's the same

632
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 4: Bible my mama read and my mom mama them read.

633
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 4: But our experience is shape our lens that we bring

634
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 4: to the text. And that's why it's important for all

635
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 4: of us to share what we get from the word,

636
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 4: righty different from us interpretation.

637
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, facts, facts. So who is your favorite person from

638
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 3: the Bible who wrestled with depression of deep sorrow? And

639
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 3: why does their story resonate with you?

640
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,399
Speaker 4: Oh that's a good one. Elijah, clearly. I think it's

641
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 4: because I have always loved, well, have always heard of

642
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 4: Elijah in a positive light. He was a hero, he

643
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 4: was a he was faithful. Even David, you hear of

644
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 4: his you know, his rendezvous and his things he didn't

645
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 4: do right, and and I do love David as well.

646
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 4: But Elijah. I haven't heard anything negative about Elijah. I

647
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 4: just heard that he was faithful, he believed in God.

648
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 4: God used him, and he stood up to eighth. So

649
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 4: I always he was a great man. And so when

650
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 4: I really tore First Kings nineteen apart and said, oh

651
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 4: he was wrestling, I like him. I relate to him

652
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 4: so and I really relate to God's prescription for him

653
00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 4: to sit down somewhere and get some rest because it's

654
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 4: a amazing what a good night's rest. Listen, we'll do

655
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 4: when you're wrestling with something. If you really get that rest,

656
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 4: don't make that decision tonight, like I'll get back with

657
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 4: you later. You can wake up a new person. I

658
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 4: do that a lot, and sometimes I think I'm depressed

659
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 4: and I'm just tired. So get the rest and don't

660
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 4: wear yourself out so it doesn't lead to depression. Like

661
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 4: I said, burnout can lead to depression. But if you

662
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 4: incorporate rest before it gets to that point, you can

663
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 4: help yourself.

664
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 3: But that's one thing I love about navigating with the

665
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 3: Blues because you definitely encourage people, or encourage the readers

666
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,840
Speaker 3: to not only rush to a positive ending, but just

667
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 3: sit down and just rest because you can actually like

668
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 3: get to a better ended or just get to a

669
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:44,760
Speaker 3: better point in your depression and be able to fully

670
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 3: understand what's going on and not make any like quick

671
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 3: or harsh decisions or anything.

672
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:53,320
Speaker 4: Just go to sleep. Yeah, totally take a break. Rest

673
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 4: is over is underrated, I believe, and you know, and

674
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 4: that's kind of culture to what black women and black

675
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 4: Christian women have been told when the church. I grew

676
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 4: up in the black women were the ones really pushing

677
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 4: help in the church. They were the ones teaching Sunday School,

678
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 4: they were the ones creating the programs. They were the

679
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,720
Speaker 4: ones selling the dinners to make the money into fundraisers.

680
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,479
Speaker 4: They were working. So when you get arrested woman, that's

681
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:24,760
Speaker 4: kind of culture. It goes against your goals. But in actuality,

682
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 4: you're gonna get a whole woman, and that can actually

683
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 4: help your goals because you can do more as a whole,

684
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:35,879
Speaker 4: healthy person than you can do as a rundown, busy person. So, yeah,

685
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 4: was between Mary and Martha too, And that's Jesus spoke

686
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 4: about that in the Bible. Better. Mary has chosen the

687
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 4: best thing. She's sitting at my feet, She's communing with me.

688
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 4: She's taking in what I'm saying and taking it to

689
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,479
Speaker 4: heart as opposed to running around. Yeah we need to eat.

690
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 4: Yeah we do need Martha's activities sometimes, but you got

691
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 4: to know when you need one of them other. Yeah,

692
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 4: and rest that Jesus. The speed is very important.

693
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, So how did your relationship with God?

694
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, go ahead, I.

695
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 4: Was just gonna say in here I said I found

696
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 4: one of my favorite scriptures. It's from the message version

697
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 4: of Matthew eleven twenty eight. We know that scripture has

698
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,720
Speaker 4: come to me all you who are weary and heavy laden,

699
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 4: and I will give you rest. But in the message

700
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 4: version it talks about keep company with me, and I

701
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 4: will teach you the unforced rhythms of grace. Girl. That's

702
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 4: phrase right there, can sit me down. Yeah, one force

703
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 4: rhythms of grace. What does that mean? I'm not pushing

704
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 4: and striving and making it hard on you, like that

705
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 4: yoke language they talk about. It's easy when you keep

706
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 4: company with me. I give you special direction and discernment

707
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,720
Speaker 4: about when to do something, when not to do something.

708
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 4: And when you flowing in those unforced of grace, it

709
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 4: feels different. It's a different way of living.

710
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,720
Speaker 3: So yeah, So, how did your relationship where God changed

711
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 3: once you start to understand your own mental health?

712
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 4: Oh goodness. I had always prayed. And that's what I

713
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,240
Speaker 4: even say in the beginning of this book when people

714
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 4: say just pray, I'm like, that's what I'm doing. I prayed.

715
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 4: I'm like, Lord, You're gonna have to help me. Even

716
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 4: when I felt like God was silent, I was my

717
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 4: faith in God did not waiver. What changed was when

718
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,800
Speaker 4: He started giving me the tools to deal with this depression.

719
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 4: And it was a lot of work. It was a

720
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 4: lot of internal work. It was me going to the therapist,

721
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 4: me listening to her questions, really asking myself those questions,

722
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 4: like when somebody turns a mirror on you and says,

723
00:38:54,600 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 4: what about you? Right? That is hard work actually for

724
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 4: somebody who thinks they got it all together right, because

725
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 4: you know, that's one side of the coin. But I

726
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 4: didn't have it all together. I was feeling that I

727
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 4: didn't have it all together. So what did I have

728
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 4: to do to figure out how I was taking what

729
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 4: could make me take? And it took time. It was

730
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 4: not an overnight thing, and I had to put that

731
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 4: work into it. And I still have to put that

732
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 4: work into it. When I feel something happening, when I'm

733
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 4: out of line, I have to say whoa, whoa, you

734
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 4: know and do the work. So I believe my relationship

735
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 4: ended up deepening with Christ when I realized okay, and

736
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 4: now clearly looking back over the big bout and seeing

737
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 4: how far he's brought me and she'd be told, and

738
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 4: seeing a book and seeing a podcast where I'm talking

739
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 4: about it, I'm like, oh, this is right, Yeah, this

740
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 4: is all God. But so I believe my relationship deepened

741
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 4: once I did the work, but it didn't slip. I

742
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 4: didn't have doubt. I was just not myself And yeah,

743
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 4: I really wanted to be myself my best friend. And

744
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 4: I recently said, and I wrote a devotion just today

745
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 4: about it, depression saved my life because it gave me

746
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 4: the opportunity to put some of these tools in place

747
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 4: that I need throughout life. Right, we're going through a

748
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 4: rough season in my family, and and that's why I

749
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 4: call the therapist, because I knew I don't want to

750
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 4: go as low as I went before, so let me

751
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 4: try to get it in the middle. And you know,

752
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 4: she told me, make sure you're having fun. I was

753
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 4: like what, And that's true. We get so wrapped up

754
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:42,359
Speaker 4: in working and striving and doing and even in the church, Yeah,

755
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 4: your best doing whatever that sometimes you forget the good

756
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 4: Oh simple fun, right, bring your hand back and laugh,

757
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 4: get together friends, play.

758
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 2: A game, Dan, do the things that you enjoyed.

759
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 4: I needed that reminder. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Everything I have

760
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 4: to be on the clock. Yeah, what are you doing?

761
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 4: So do you feel like a sleeping it away? Right?

762
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 3: Do you feel like God reveals something about yourself that

763
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 3: you didn't realize before you start your process.

764
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, a lot of things. One. I had let

765
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 4: my spiritual tools kind of get rusty. You know. I

766
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:26,240
Speaker 4: was probably doing devotion probably like I said, I was praying,

767
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 4: but how fervently. And that is not to say that

768
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 4: when you always do things fervently things work out, because

769
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 4: we know that's not true. Trials and tribulations come. But

770
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 4: I had let some things go. And then even with

771
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,479
Speaker 4: the relationship, I know, I look back at my journal, girl,

772
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 4: I praise God for this guy. I praise God. Just

773
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 4: sit down and listen, now, you know, because sometimes you

774
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 4: could be so busy focused on, like I said, the story.

775
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 4: I want it in my head. I didn't write down

776
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,399
Speaker 4: the red flags. And that's really how I learned that

777
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 4: this was not for me. I told one person the

778
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 4: whole story, from the beginning to the end, and before

779
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 4: she could even give me advice, I said, stop, Oh

780
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 4: I've been playing. I heard it. As I repeated it,

781
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,839
Speaker 4: I was like, this is not right. But because I

782
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 4: was so focused elsewhere again praising God for what I

783
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 4: thought I wanted, what I thought I needed, I was

784
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 4: not sitting I was not discerning. I was not being

785
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 4: quiet and receiving from God, and that that's a trap

786
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:37,720
Speaker 4: for real Christians, people who think we're all devoted and fervent.

787
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 4: Like I said, yeah, sometimes you need to be quiet. Yes,

788
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,399
Speaker 4: So yep, I really learned a lot about myself and

789
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,760
Speaker 4: really go to God with everything and just say Lord,

790
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 4: teach me, show me.

791
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 3: So when did your faith first intersect with your writing?

792
00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,399
Speaker 3: And when did you When did writing become a love

793
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 3: for you? Because you've been writing for a very long time.

794
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,240
Speaker 4: Yeah. So in college, I wanted to be in broadcast

795
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 4: journalism and I did one internship at a TV station,

796
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 4: and I just felt the environment wasn't me. I'm more

797
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 4: especially back then, I was a people pleaser. I wasn't cutthroat,

798
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,399
Speaker 4: I wasn't aggressive at that level. So I just felt

799
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 4: like the environment wasn't me. But my teacher told me

800
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 4: I should write, and so she had me do an

801
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 4: internship at a newspaper and just to shout out to

802
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:35,720
Speaker 4: my HBCUs, when you got teachers pushing you, yea very helpful.

803
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 4: From there, that very same teacher pushed me to apply

804
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 4: to grad school at Northwestern in Evanston, Illinois. Which had

805
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:46,280
Speaker 4: the top journalism school. I didn't even know. I'm from Tiberdea, Louisiana.

806
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 4: I didn't know what Northwestern was. We had a Northwestern Louisiana, right.

807
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:54,240
Speaker 4: I came here to Chicago to go to Northwest change

808
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 4: my life. I had a wonderful time. Just it opened doors,

809
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 4: like you know, you just get expos to different things.

810
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,399
Speaker 4: And from there I went into I thought I wanted

811
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 4: to do magazines, and I knew my interests were children,

812
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 4: black culture. At the time, it wasn't quite Christianity, although

813
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 4: I had a relationship with Christ. But eventually that became

814
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 4: one of my prongs of things I'm interested in. So

815
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,839
Speaker 4: I worked at a children's newspaper to get the youth

816
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,959
Speaker 4: piece out of I worked at Jet Magazine, Yes, Jet

817
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 4: Culture a Jet. And the true story is I was

818
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 4: working at Jet and I had joined my church in Chicago,

819
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 4: and we had Wednesday and at prayer service, and I said, well, Lord,

820
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 4: teach me where I'm going with this career, because by

821
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 4: that point I was praying about stuff, praying about everything.

822
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,840
Speaker 4: And I was at prayer service on ninety fifth Street

823
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 4: in Chicago, and before I could get on the Highway

824
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 4: to go home. I just felt I should send my

825
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,760
Speaker 4: resume to this company. It just came into my spirit.

826
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 4: I didn't have a whole lot of experience with hearing

827
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 4: from God, and I do think that can be different

828
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,439
Speaker 4: for different people. But I felt that I should send

829
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 4: my resume there. I knew the company because we had

830
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 4: used their Sunday school books. I had one of their

831
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 4: books at home. I looked, literally looked at the address,

832
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:13,840
Speaker 4: typed it up. At the time we were still sending

833
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 4: out paper resumes. I sent it to that company the

834
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 4: next morning, and within three days the president of the

835
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 4: company was calling me and we were having a conversation.

836
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 4: It was like, you got the jobs, and he said,

837
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 4: at the risk of sounding super spiritual, we always try

838
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 4: to make wound for the people we think God is

839
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 4: sending our way. I ended up editing a magazine for

840
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 4: them part time while still working at JET and it

841
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 4: was a youth Sunday school magazine, which I wanted to

842
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 4: do youth magazine. YEP. I just saw God putting things

843
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 4: toge from there in my spiritual development really leaked. Because

844
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 4: I worked for them part time probably for six months,

845
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 4: then I went to them full time. I was reading

846
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 4: the Bible as a part of walk, you know, eight

847
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 4: hours a day and Bible study. Guys, you kind of

848
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:12,839
Speaker 4: gotta grow right. Yeah, the library with commentaries, I'd beat.

849
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 4: I was in my happy place just reading about the Bibles.

850
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 4: So yeah, that was That was how I got into

851
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 4: Christian publishing. And truthfully, I've had my feet in Christian

852
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:26,439
Speaker 4: publishing since then. And that was in nineteen ninety eight,

853
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:29,879
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety seven, ninety eight. Even when I went back

854
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 4: to secular publishing, I still did stuff on the side

855
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 4: for Christian publishing companies.

856
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, listen, I am a student of HBCUs. I went

857
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 3: to the Tennessee State University.

858
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:42,439
Speaker 2: What HBC. Did you go to the Tennessee State Yes,

859
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 2: d Tennessee State, right.

860
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 4: Very good.

861
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 3: I went to Diller in Nowise, Yes you did, Yes,

862
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 3: I remember that.

863
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, oh wow.

864
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:53,280
Speaker 3: I'm telling great things come from HBCUs.

865
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:57,359
Speaker 4: I believe. Well, the confidence is there too, because you're

866
00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 4: not when other things at that time. You just there

867
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 4: having a good old time, hopefully getting some studies done. Right. Yeah,

868
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 4: it's a nice it's a nice bubble to be in

869
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 4: for four or five years years if you can. And

870
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:13,440
Speaker 4: it's what you make of it. I said that in

871
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 4: high school. I didn't even know nothing about college, but

872
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 4: I was like, school gonna be what I make of it.

873
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:19,840
Speaker 4: I could go to a great school over here, I

874
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 4: could go to a great school over there, but I'm

875
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 4: gonna make it great for me.

876
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:23,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

877
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you also spoke about your spiritual development. And

878
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 3: I'm just curious, what does Guy's voice sound like to you? Like,

879
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 3: how does he talk to you?

880
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 4: It's a I asked my mom, I'm that question once

881
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 4: when she was talking to about it. She's like, I

882
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 4: just felt God said, it's like what you mean, and

883
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 4: you could tell when people hungry that got questions like that,

884
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:44,879
Speaker 4: she can tell hungry. She was like, it was just

885
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:51,319
Speaker 4: a soft quiet almost my mind saying it. But it

886
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,959
Speaker 4: was so peaceful and kind of out the blue where

887
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 4: I knew it wasn't just me thinking it, Like for

888
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 4: me to be turning the car and here, send your

889
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 4: resume here? Who wasn't really thinking that, you know, like

890
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 4: I wasn't. I was probably thinking about what I'm gonna

891
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 4: go home and eat. But me to send your resume

892
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 4: here was something that settled in my mind, and it

893
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 4: was a very peaceful feeling, and I felt like I

894
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 4: should follow. Yeah. Yeah, very peaceful, very very peaceful. When

895
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:25,280
Speaker 4: I hear God's voice.

896
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like God speaks to me in repetition.

897
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,319
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, like I feel.

898
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 2: Like I hear him.

899
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 3: But then I like, I hear it or see something

900
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 3: that He just told me over and over again until

901
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 3: I do it.

902
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 4: Yes, that does happen. I have a coworker who actually

903
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 4: outlet She outlined the ways God speaks and it was great.

904
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:50,919
Speaker 4: I haven't done the research on that, so I won't

905
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 4: repeat it, but it was like six or seven different

906
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:55,240
Speaker 4: ways God speaks to people.

907
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, like I just see it over and over again,

908
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 3: or I see something that remamia what he told me,

909
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:01,840
Speaker 3: and I'm like, all right, God, I'm gonna do it.

910
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do it.

911
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 4: Yes, And when you think about it, even scripture, I

912
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 4: get amazed when I hear the same scripture two and

913
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 4: three times because the Bible pretty big, right, How you

914
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 4: just came from that same thing that I read this morning? Right?

915
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:17,439
Speaker 1: Right?

916
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:17,879
Speaker 4: Right?

917
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:21,439
Speaker 3: Do you feel like your book Navigating the Blues fill

918
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 3: the gap between conversations around faith and mental health?

919
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 4: Yes, it's open up doors, Like, yeah, conversation near And

920
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 4: I've been asked to speak several places and oh my gosh,

921
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 4: it's so freeing to see people just connect and say, yes,

922
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 4: this is really good, this is really helpful. But it

923
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 4: really is about liberating ourselves, right. It's making us and

924
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 4: hole to be the people Guide has called us to be.

925
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 3: And you're so down to earth, like I can just

926
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 3: only imagine like the feedback and the reception you receive

927
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 3: from people when you like go through your book and

928
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 3: share your story, like you just seem so like warm

929
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 3: and inviting, So it makes it easier for people to

930
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 3: be able to share their story about something that they

931
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 3: may be struggling with.

932
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 4: Thank you for that. And God has worked with me

933
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 4: on that, and that's who I want to be and

934
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 4: I believe that's who God has called me to be.

935
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 4: So whenever I see that not happening, I get pulled

936
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 4: her tale and I asked God to help me too,

937
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 4: and I believe some of the things that are happening

938
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 4: as a result timing wise, is once I got that together,

939
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:29,760
Speaker 4: he could release me to go and touch other people.

940
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 4: So I thank God for that, because you know, you

941
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 4: could ruin yourself happening, but truthful, Labine, when you've been

942
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:42,319
Speaker 4: through what I've been through and you've connected with God,

943
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 4: You've got to give it back to him. It is

944
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:50,360
Speaker 4: about God. It is not about that is the bottom line,

945
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 4: honest truth. Because we could try to think about us

946
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 4: if we want to, because that's like, I'm human, right,

947
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:57,879
Speaker 4: but it really is a yeah.

948
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 3: But were you ever like aprahend We're like feeling like

949
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,320
Speaker 3: like just sharing that side of you in the publishing world,

950
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 3: just being that vulnerable.

951
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 4: You know. That's a really good question. Again. I think

952
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 4: when I went to college, that's what I wanted to do.

953
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 4: I wanted to be in front of the camera. I

954
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 4: really wanted broadcast journalism because I thought the anchors were

955
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 4: cute and you could just sit there and read the

956
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 4: news go by and report girl. Recently, I moderated sessions

957
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 4: five days in a row fund for the industry, just

958
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,240
Speaker 4: one hour. I was like, whoa, this is hard work, right.

959
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:37,759
Speaker 4: What looks and glamorous is not always the case. So

960
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 4: I am getting to do more of that, and that

961
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 4: is naturally my personality. That is what made me gravitate

962
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 4: toward that. But I was not ready. I was not

963
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 4: who I needed to be to be effective, and frankly,

964
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,399
Speaker 4: at the time when I was in college. It wasn't

965
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 4: about God, it was about doing the news. So I

966
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 4: think God is using this to bring me in a

967
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 4: new place, like you know, all things work together for

968
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 4: good that I believe that you can't write the script.

969
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, facts, facts fast, Yes, and that's not at least

970
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:18,880
Speaker 3: What does God's grace look like in the middle of

971
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,360
Speaker 3: depression and not after you come out of it, but

972
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 3: while you're still in it.

973
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 4: God's grace, Oh my goodness, I'm still learning. I'm still learning.

974
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 4: I'm still leaning on that. It means perfection is out

975
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:40,359
Speaker 4: the door. I read just recently He's perfect. Yeah. And

976
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 4: you know, when you start realizing you're not perfect, you

977
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,760
Speaker 4: can deal with other people as if they're not perfect

978
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 4: and you're not expecting perfection from them. So that that

979
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 4: leads to how to treat my husband, It leads to

980
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:55,320
Speaker 4: how to treat my daughter, It leads to how to

981
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 4: treat people I work with. Oh, you messed up? Okay,

982
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 4: And I really recently my next book is about faith

983
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:06,120
Speaker 4: for our daughters, passing it on. And I said in

984
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 4: a sermon children should first receive grace either in their

985
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 4: home or in the church. Where do you find the

986
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 4: picture of grace. How will I understand what grace is

987
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 4: unless I've really received it at home first. So in

988
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:28,919
Speaker 4: order to receive grace, I don't have to mess up sometimes, right, Yeah,

989
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 4: I've had to give it. I've had to give it

990
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 4: to myself. I've had to say I didn't do that perfectly,

991
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:37,879
Speaker 4: I didn't do it the best. I have to give

992
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 4: myself grace. I have to give others grace, and so

993
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 4: for me it's an ongoing reminder that God is the

994
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 4: only perfect one and he gives us grace every day.

995
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 4: And my thank you to God is to give that

996
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 4: grace to others as well as myself. And sometimes again,

997
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:02,799
Speaker 4: given it toell selves can be the hardest, but that

998
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 4: can help with your depression too. Today I don't feel it.

999
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 4: The day is not a good day. I'm gonna do

1000
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 4: the best. And I say that in here because that

1001
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 4: really got me through. I'm just gonna do what I

1002
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:16,959
Speaker 4: have to do. What to do? What meeting?

1003
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 3: Do?

1004
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:20,000
Speaker 4: I have to go to this? What we gonna eat?

1005
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:23,840
Speaker 4: Ca cereal? Because I am not able to do more.

1006
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:27,800
Speaker 4: I am to rest to you know, do what brings

1007
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:28,360
Speaker 4: me joy.

1008
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 3: At this point, I'm just curious, what are you teaching

1009
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 3: your daughter about honoring her feelings and taking care of

1010
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 3: her mental health.

1011
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 4: Oh that's really, really, really good. She's fifteen. Now. I

1012
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 4: try to use some of the tools I've used in

1013
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 4: this book occasional lablack what are you looking forward to?

1014
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 4: Because that's also a method and a tool I use.

1015
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 4: You gotta have something to look forward to. Life can't

1016
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 4: be all about routine and work or whatever. And she'll say, oh,

1017
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 4: I'm looking forward to this or that. I'll ask her

1018
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,640
Speaker 4: what do you rate your day as? And she'll tell me,

1019
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:05,359
Speaker 4: and what could be better? What could you have done?

1020
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 4: Why is it like that? So we're beginning to figure

1021
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:13,719
Speaker 4: out ways to express ourselves and be okay with having

1022
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:16,840
Speaker 4: a day that's a four out of ten and recognizing

1023
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,479
Speaker 4: someday you're gonna have eight and nine and it's gonna

1024
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:22,520
Speaker 4: be great and other days it's just gonna Because that's

1025
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:25,360
Speaker 4: a part of it, too, is living in the mundane,

1026
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 4: because life can be pretty Monday. So how do I

1027
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 4: get through that and live through that? I didn't embrace

1028
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 4: it it. Sometimes it can be as simple as having

1029
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 4: something to look forward to or creating something to look

1030
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 4: forward to.

1031
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, because here I'm so happy that we were

1032
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 3: able to do this hot. Like I said, I was

1033
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 3: like following her for a while and I wanted to

1034
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 3: reach out to her before, and.

1035
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:49,319
Speaker 2: I'm like, I didn't even reach out to her.

1036
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 3: So I think that your book Navigating the Blues is

1037
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 3: just such a good resource to use when you are

1038
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 3: trying to just figure things out. Like I definitely was

1039
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:00,560
Speaker 3: highlighting marketing it up and down. So I'm really excited

1040
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 3: that you was able to come on the show and

1041
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 3: talk about your book with me.

1042
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for reaching out to me. This

1043
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 4: has been amazing conversation and people can order the books

1044
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 4: anywhere books are sold, and I actually have everything on

1045
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 4: my website, which is Katerrapaton dot com. Good and last

1046
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 4: one not least because since you are one of God's

1047
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:23,399
Speaker 4: favorite people, you have a direct line to Him. When

1048
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 4: I have people of your caliber on the show, I

1049
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 4: always ask you to lead us or end us with

1050
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:32,320
Speaker 4: a prayer for any of those who are dealing with depression, greed,

1051
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 4: or just navigating the blues, because this has been a

1052
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 4: tough year for many of us and yes it still is,

1053
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 4: you know, and the holidays are coming up. Clearly, we

1054
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 4: didn't even touch on that, but clearly the holidays without

1055
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 4: a loved one, it's really hard. Some people have complex

1056
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 4: family structures that make it even hard. So God, we

1057
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:56,360
Speaker 4: asked that you just be with all those who are listening,

1058
00:56:56,520 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 4: all those who are receiving this information, that you just

1059
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 4: help them to first know you love them and that

1060
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:07,840
Speaker 4: you sent Jesus for them, and if anyone has not

1061
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:10,919
Speaker 4: accepted him, that you would show them the way, give

1062
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:14,760
Speaker 4: them light, give them peace, give them understanding. Dear God,

1063
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:17,920
Speaker 4: I asked that you be with anyone who is not

1064
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 4: feeling like themselves, perhaps nom are low, are just in

1065
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 4: just such a bad place that they don't know how

1066
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 4: to lift up their head. God, I asked that your

1067
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 4: spirit would touch them right now, that they would know

1068
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 4: that you see them and hear them, and you can

1069
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 4: direct them toward a place to get help. Dear God,

1070
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:40,919
Speaker 4: I asked that you just continue to be with Ebaney

1071
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 4: and her show and her work, her enthusiasm, her goals.

1072
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 4: Dear God, I asked that you bless her so that

1073
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 4: she might continue to be a blessing. God. I love you,

1074
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:55,320
Speaker 4: I praise you, and I just thank you for what

1075
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 4: you've done in my life and how you've helped me

1076
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 4: navigate the blues since name.

1077
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 3: Amen, Amen, that's what I'm talking about.

1078
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 4: Child.

1079
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:06,720
Speaker 2: I know God, I'm comforta with a blessing after that prayer.

1080
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 4: Amen man Amen, we all received that.

1081
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 3: Yes, And before we leave this last one, what is

1082
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:15,960
Speaker 3: your advice for anybody that's dealing with depression of grief

1083
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 3: during the holiday season, Because, like I said, my friend

1084
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 3: lost her mom. So this is the first Thanksgiving she

1085
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:24,120
Speaker 3: celebrated without her mom and it was really challenging. So

1086
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 3: what would you say to those who's dealing with that.

1087
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 4: I actually, in my newsletter, I just released it yesterday,

1088
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 4: I shared a blurb on holidays and the Blues and

1089
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 4: you can subscribe to that newsletter a Kata Patton dot com.

1090
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:41,920
Speaker 4: But it talks about be okay with breaking traditions. Sometimes

1091
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 4: we feel like we got to do exactly what we

1092
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 4: did when mama was here, when your grandmother was fat. No,

1093
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 4: it's it's different. You can acknowledge it, you can say it.

1094
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 4: I li literally have given myself permission to not go

1095
00:58:56,480 --> 00:59:00,640
Speaker 4: home sometimes on Thanksgiving or Christmas because I have a

1096
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 4: family here and things are different, and that's hard because

1097
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:07,440
Speaker 4: I always went home. My mom was a Christmas person

1098
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 4: Christmas Street decked ole presence all the time. She gave

1099
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 4: us presents when she was in our hospital bed. So

1100
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:18,240
Speaker 4: it's really understanding that this is a different holiday now

1101
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 4: and it looks different, creating different traditions. If you can't

1102
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 4: go to dinner, you don't have to go to dinner,

1103
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 4: it's one dinner. You know, you can see your family

1104
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 4: other times you can meet them somewhere else. But don't

1105
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:32,880
Speaker 4: be afraid to break traditions and honor you and what

1106
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 4: you're feeling. It's okay, yeah, Cati, are you're good?

1107
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 3: Because my therapist told me that too when my grandmother

1108
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:41,560
Speaker 3: passed away, and she says, okay, the start new traditions,

1109
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 3: like you don't have to stick to the traditions that

1110
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:45,800
Speaker 3: you were accustomed to when this person was here, Like

1111
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:47,200
Speaker 3: it's time to start something new.

1112
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's okay to do something new.

1113
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:53,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, and tell us where we can follow you, at,

1114
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:55,080
Speaker 3: where we can support you. Where we have your website.

1115
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 3: But I know you're on social media.

1116
00:59:56,840 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 4: The website is kat A r A he A T

1117
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 4: t O N just my name dot com. I'm on

1118
01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 4: Facebook and that's on the KATARO Washington patent and I'm

1119
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 4: on ig so I have a substack page. I haven't

1120
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:13,200
Speaker 4: started really writing, but I will so you can find

1121
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 4: me there as well. Yeah.

1122
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 3: Then when I say in Chicago, I gotta come to

1123
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 3: your church to get that good old.

1124
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 4: Word in absolutely right so you can hear from the Lord. Yes, yes, yes,

1125
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 4: please keep in touch.

1126
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 3: Oh I am, I am, I promise you. I actually

1127
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 3: got two questions to ask you off the air. But

1128
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 3: thank you, Thank you so much, Katerry. This was such

1129
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 3: a joy and I feel like this is the perfect season.

1130
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 3: Yes that I want everybody to support your book Navigating

1131
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 3: the Blues, because I feel like this has been a

1132
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 3: really tough year for so many of us, so I

1133
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 3: think this was right on time. So thank you so much.

1134
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 3: Until next time, everyone, Later you want to say.

1135
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 4: Bye, y'a'll be good, be well.

1136
01:00:52,160 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 3: Yes, pretty private production of the Black Effect podcast Network.

1137
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,

1138
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:11,320
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Don't forget

1139
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:14,760
Speaker 3: to subscribe and rate the show, and you can connect

1140
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:18,000
Speaker 3: with me on social media at Pretty Private Podcasts