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Speaker 2: part of the volume. John Middlecoff, former NFL scout with
Speaker 2: the Philadelphia Eagles. He does the Three and Out podcast
Speaker 2: team joins me every Sunday night for an hour, and
Speaker 2: we just watched Michigan throttle Washington thirty four to thirteen.
Speaker 2: I was pulling, you know, for Washington for reasons because
Speaker 2: John had a lot of money on it and I
Speaker 2: am from the Pacific Northwest. But I had said with
Speaker 2: John and on FS one and Fox Sports Radio, I
Speaker 2: thought Michigan really matched up with Washington. Well, I thought
Speaker 2: their secondary would clamp down, they'd get a pass rush.
Speaker 2: You saw it tonight. Recruiting does matter, and Michigan recruits
Speaker 2: at a higher level.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: One of the limitations for Washington has always been they
Speaker 2: are geographically jammed up in the corner Washington, Oregon, Idaho
Speaker 2: do not have a lot of Division one players. They
Speaker 2: have to convince kids to come up to the rainy weather.
Speaker 2: Michigan more centrally located, you know, and sometimes it's a
Speaker 2: little bit easier in the region they're into recruit I mean,
Speaker 2: Oregon and Washington play at a very high level and
Speaker 2: sort of overcomes some recruiting disadvantages. Nil certainly helps Oregon
Speaker 2: because of Phil Knight and his backing. But my takeaway
Speaker 2: to start this game was that listen, Michigan felt they
Speaker 2: could Obviously they're going to pound them a little bit
Speaker 2: on the run. Washington was aggressive defensively got burned, but
Speaker 2: I think in the end, Washington averaged four yards of
Speaker 2: play Michigan average seven point eight, and they just negated
Speaker 2: Washington's firepower. Washington has thrown the ball on everybody for
Speaker 2: two years, and Michigan's corners pass rush just took it away.
Speaker 2: And then you had a very limited Michael Pennix who
Speaker 2: doesn't move particularly well, and a run game that was
Speaker 2: never great all season. I just I kind of felt
Speaker 2: like I knew who was gonna win this thing. About
Speaker 2: eight minutes into it. I had like a feeling like, yeah,
Speaker 2: they're just gonna lean on Washington. That was my takeaway.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it was seventeen ten right at halftime,
Speaker 3: but it felt more like thirty to three. I mean
Speaker 3: it was the Washington was very, very lucky, which you
Speaker 3: felt like had some momentum because they were going in
Speaker 3: a half, they were getting the ball and then he
Speaker 3: immediately comes out and throws an interception. But in that
Speaker 3: third quarter, I mean, Michigan couldn't get anything going on offense.
Speaker 3: They only gave him three points. So it was it
Speaker 3: was twenty to ten going into the fourth quarter. But
Speaker 3: you know, Michigan is about to set the record many
Speaker 3: people believe for players drafted, and it's not super high
Speaker 3: in talent. It's fifteen to seventeen guys. They're gonna get drafted.
Speaker 3: You know, a lot of guys, third, fourth, fifth round.
Speaker 3: It showed the night right Washington's talent NFL wise, is
Speaker 3: all the skill guys on offense, the receivers a dudesay,
Speaker 3: the other two guys in the quarterback. Well, if I
Speaker 3: tell you the quarterback, I would say has one of
Speaker 3: the worst games you've ever seen him play. It mattered,
Speaker 3: you know, not some of the Stanford or the random
Speaker 3: games against Oregon, against the big time teams they've played
Speaker 3: Texas he had, I'd give him like a C minus.
Speaker 3: Today they have no chance. And then the other thing
Speaker 3: that really stood out is Washington's offensive line, you know,
Speaker 3: won the Joe More Award, was the best they got worked.
Speaker 3: I mean, that guard center combination was getting shoved around.
Speaker 3: The physicality you saw. Harbaugh's team look like the good
Speaker 3: NFL teams. They're just good at every position. They tackle well.
Speaker 3: And to me that the player of the game is
Speaker 3: Harbaugh's defensive coordinator Jesse Minner, which I'm sure would go
Speaker 3: with him. He's a raven guy to the NFL. What
Speaker 3: a performance by him, I mean, shutting down one of
Speaker 3: the more explosive offenses we've seen in recent memory.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, Pennis had an off game.
Speaker 2: I kind of look at it like it's it's not
Speaker 2: a random off game. He got pressure, not a lot
Speaker 2: of space to move. People weren't open, and so he
Speaker 2: was off because he was pressured. He was off because
Speaker 2: they're just there's one lot weren't a lot of openings.
Speaker 2: I mean, you and I both thought Washington matched up
Speaker 2: really well with Texas. I thought it was like that.
Speaker 2: That matches up Texas week in the secondary. Michigan's got
Speaker 2: NFL guys in the secondary, so everywhere Pennick, you know,
Speaker 2: Pennix was just throwing that ball. It was sort of
Speaker 2: jump ball situations. And I mean, Michael Penix is still
Speaker 2: going to get drafted very high. But you can see
Speaker 2: the concerns about him. He is sort of a statuesque thrower.
Speaker 2: He kind of lets it fly. Say he didn't like
Speaker 2: to get hit. You saw a couple of times when
Speaker 2: he had pressure. He he didn't want to get popped.
Speaker 2: And in the NFL, if you go to a bad team,
Speaker 2: you're gonna get popped. So you watch a Josh Allen
Speaker 2: on Sunday or Lamar and they can throw, they can pass.
Speaker 2: Michael's gonna sit in the pocket in the NFL like Tua,
Speaker 2: and he's gonna throw the football. I think he's a bigger,
Speaker 2: stronger to it, throws it up the sideline better than Tua.
Speaker 2: But that's sort of his comp he he's kind of
Speaker 2: a state thrower when he has time to throw. Does
Speaker 2: it hurt his draft stock? Certainly didn't help it. You're
Speaker 2: a former scout, I mean, you know, people are saying
Speaker 2: he'll drop out of the first round. I just I
Speaker 2: think there's so much desperation for a cornerback. He may
Speaker 2: go down to twenty twenty five. But it doesn't feel
Speaker 2: like he go mid second, does it.
Speaker 3: No. I mean maybe I'm a little biased, you know,
Speaker 3: living on the West Coast and rooting for him, and
Speaker 3: maybe I got a little over excited for the Texas
Speaker 3: game because I like to ask my friends that are
Speaker 3: on teams that don't need a quarterback, so when they
Speaker 3: go into these schools, they have no agenda in evaluating
Speaker 3: the guy. And a couple of guys that are you know,
Speaker 3: scouting directors had second round grades on the guy. And
Speaker 3: you know a lot of people were pushing back against
Speaker 3: this top ten talk after the Texas game because they go,
Speaker 3: he's an older player, he's been banged up. Look at
Speaker 3: tonight it looked a lot like some of those Oregon
Speaker 3: games where he's getting peppered and you go, God, is
Speaker 3: he gonna be able to get up? Well, what happens
Speaker 3: when that's TJ. Watt right or Fletcher Cox or Aaron Donald,
Speaker 3: those guys leaning on them all game long. So I
Speaker 3: understand the concerns. I'm bullish on him. I like him.
Speaker 3: Tonight is rough because the way you evaluate a player
Speaker 3: is against the best competition. He plays right, so Oregon
Speaker 3: Texas defensively is not right. So tonight would be the
Speaker 3: game that if you were feeling pretty good about your
Speaker 3: second round grade, which I understand, Like, I understand the concerns,
Speaker 3: but I don't think you gotta be careful in scouting
Speaker 3: about overreacting to a performance like tonight because to me,
Speaker 3: he was really amped up early, he could never get
Speaker 3: into a rhythm and he was bad. I mean, guys
Speaker 3: have bad games, right, So I wouldn't write the guy off.
Speaker 3: But tonight is definitely gonna be of concern in these
Speaker 3: draft meetings for these teams. Like you said, I would
Speaker 3: be like, I don't see him falling out of the
Speaker 3: first round. All the character stuff, the medical is going
Speaker 3: to be a concern, and when he goes to the combine,
Speaker 3: if anything red flags with the knees, you know, just
Speaker 3: to wear and tear on the body. Because you draft
Speaker 3: a guy in the first round, it is about the
Speaker 3: second contract, Like can the guy be an eight to
Speaker 3: nine year player? Do we feel comfortable about giving the
Speaker 3: guy a second contract, and I do think tonight brought
Speaker 3: up some fair questions. I still like the player, but
Speaker 3: tonight was a rough performance.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it was. As I was watching the game,
Speaker 2: I said, you have two contrasting styles. A team that
Speaker 2: would prefer to throw, a team that would prefer to run,
Speaker 2: a West Coast Pac twelve team, a big ten team.
Speaker 2: Michigan made it look like a Big ten game. Michigan
Speaker 2: made that game look like they wanted to make it
Speaker 2: look McCarthy didn't have to throw much, couple of big
Speaker 2: throws to the tight end, take a lead, physically push
Speaker 2: Washington around. As Washington, you know, now heads into the conference.
Speaker 2: Michigan's like, Okay, this is what we do. This is
Speaker 2: sort of what the kind of brand of football. I mean,
Speaker 2: Michigan doesn't have an elite receiver, their tight ends one
Speaker 2: of their more consistent pass catchers. So I thought Michigan
Speaker 2: made it look like a big ten game. And you know,
Speaker 2: the other thing that jumped out to me and Michigan,
Speaker 2: for the record, is a very good tackling team. You
Speaker 2: pointed that out. You know, sometimes you have to watch
Speaker 2: the moment. You know, you can speculate and then you
Speaker 2: watch a moment and I was like, I don't I
Speaker 2: don't know. I think Harball's gonna come back to Michigan.
Speaker 2: As I watched that game and I watched the way
Speaker 2: Michigan played, I'm like, yeah, this would be the perfect
Speaker 2: time to leave. Like it was. I sat there and
Speaker 2: I'm like, he beat Washington, Alabama, Ohio State, Iowa, Penn
Speaker 2: State in a row. It's your last five games at Michigan.
Speaker 2: And you see his brother and you see the family,
Speaker 2: and I thought he's gonna take his DC. All these
Speaker 2: kids are leaving. And as I watched it, it's weird,
Speaker 2: but it felt like his last game at Michigan. Does
Speaker 2: that sound crazy?
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's gone. I mean I think he's definitely gone.
Speaker 3: And the one thing Jim Harbaugh has always done and
Speaker 3: was unfold displayed tonight is his coaching staffs for so good.
Speaker 3: I remember going to a night of practice when he
Speaker 3: was there and it was Vic Fangio's defensive coordinator who
Speaker 3: was with him at Stanford. Feels like he has a
Speaker 3: young superstar in this Jesse Minner guy that he got
Speaker 3: from his brother. Obviously he had McDonald that is now
Speaker 3: his brother's defensive coordinator. The Harbass skills of accumulating excellent
Speaker 3: assistance is an elite skill because Jim is a CEO
Speaker 3: head coach. He's not calling the plays. He's a motivator,
Speaker 3: he's a program guy. That that team felt like an
Speaker 3: NFL team today, the way they tackle, their physicality, their
Speaker 3: relentlessness and listen, Washington's like a really good college team
Speaker 3: that felt like, we're good at everywhere. Are really our
Speaker 3: only flaws are quarterback? How much can we rely on him?
Speaker 3: But he's clearly has NFL potential. We could talk about
Speaker 3: him from an NFL standpoint, But you know, Harbaugh's built
Speaker 3: teams like this when he's been at his best where
Speaker 3: he over he's a heavyweight fighter and he comes in.
Speaker 3: I mean when they have almost one hundred and eight
Speaker 3: yards rushing in the first quarter, they hit him like
Speaker 3: Mike Tyson right in the in the face and it
Speaker 3: felt like it really wobbled Washington and they were never
Speaker 3: the same after that. They were just holding on by
Speaker 3: a thread. And because Harbass teams, typically unless they're playing
Speaker 3: crappy opponents aren't gonna score sixty points, you're always going
Speaker 3: to be in the game. Especially they were bad on
Speaker 3: third down but the game was never close. The score
Speaker 3: was close, the game wasn't close.
Speaker 2: Yeah again, Michigan averaged eight yards of play Washington four,
Speaker 2: and the game looked like Michigan wanted it to look
Speaker 2: like it was a Big ten football game.
Speaker 3: One thing we were talking before you hopped on is
Speaker 3: I remember during the Super Bowl Jim was very uncomfortable
Speaker 3: playing his brother because Jim likes the opponent as an enemy. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, so it's going to the AFC. If he
Speaker 3: goes to the Chargers of the Raiders, you know his
Speaker 3: mindset is going to be a good playoff team. Well,
Speaker 3: he's gonna have to see the Ravens. Do you think
Speaker 3: that could maybe force him to be more interested in
Speaker 3: Washington Atlanta? Maybe take Tepper's call seriously to just avoid
Speaker 3: his brother because that family is a very tight knit group.
Speaker 3: It felt like a Harbo family reunion there tonight.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, his brother coaches in Baltimore. I could
Speaker 2: see Jim taking the Washington job. I mean it's just
Speaker 2: right right across the river. Yeah, I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: there is a reality about the NFL. It's like you
Speaker 2: start looking at these playoff teams, there's just not a
Speaker 2: lot of bad quarterbacks. I mean it's Dak and Hurts.
Speaker 2: I mean a low end guy is Baker, and then
Speaker 2: it's Goff and then it's Stafford.
Speaker 3: You know c J.
Speaker 2: Strouts.
Speaker 3: Washington has the second pick, so he would be able
Speaker 3: to pick basically his quarterback beside Caleb Williams.
Speaker 2: Well, you know he wouldn't take Pennix because he went
Speaker 2: against him in soft laws. He's not going to get Caleb.
Speaker 2: Although they may make a run and move up, depends
Speaker 2: on what you know. Chicago. You know, I don't trust
Speaker 2: their front office. They may may move down to second
Speaker 2: and take a boatload of picks. Yeah, I think that's
Speaker 2: an interesting point. I know the Chargers, Albert Breer has
Speaker 2: said this, and I've been told the same thing through
Speaker 2: my sources. The Chargers are varied. They realize what's happening
Speaker 2: in the Los Angeles market. McVeigh once again over delivers.
Speaker 2: Lincoln Riley is a name, Lebron. I mean the Clippers
Speaker 2: have four stars. Look at where the Dodgers are bringing in.
Speaker 2: It's a really distracted market. And if you're not you
Speaker 2: can't go with another coordinator. Dan Quinn's not going to
Speaker 2: move the interest meter in this town. Mike Rabel a little,
Speaker 2: Jim Harbaugh a lot so. But you have new owners
Speaker 2: in Washington, and they're wealthier than the Spanos family, who
Speaker 2: I don't think. I don't even think they're middle of
Speaker 2: the pack in NFL owner wealth. I think they're you know,
Speaker 2: as Mark Cubans has poor billionaire, poor billionaire's club in
Speaker 2: pro sports. So yeah, I mean the Washington one's very,
Speaker 2: very interesting. I like Washington's talent. I think Sam How's
Speaker 2: a backup, but you could certainly, you know, that's an advantage.
Speaker 2: Jim Harbaugh may see that as a Hey, I don't
Speaker 2: have an incumbent. Sam How can start, and by November first,
Speaker 2: we're bringing the kid in Drake May So I think
Speaker 2: it has to be considered. But I'll say it again,
Speaker 2: I really did feel watching this game in the second half,
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, this is this is it. This feels
Speaker 2: like it's it. I Jim has coached on the West
Speaker 2: Coast and likes it, but the hardballs they kind of
Speaker 2: feel Midwest. They kind of, you know, it kind of
Speaker 2: feels like they're part of the country. So we know
Speaker 2: he's probably not going to Chicago because of the President,
Speaker 2: and he don't get along and by the way, Kaylin
Speaker 2: de Boor for Washington will be at the top of
Speaker 2: Michigan's list. I mean that's the story that will develop
Speaker 2: three or four days from now. Michigan is going to
Speaker 2: go after Washington's coach.
Speaker 3: Well, I talked about on the podcast today, look at
Speaker 3: Washington and connect the dots their their owner. His last
Speaker 3: two coaches as a Sixer owner were Doc Rivers and
Speaker 3: Nick Nurse, two championship level, hot, big name, very expensive
Speaker 3: Bob Myers. When they had to go get a coach,
Speaker 3: what do you do? They went after Steve Kerr. What's
Speaker 3: he always done? Big game hunting in Golden State? Spielman
Speaker 3: Rick who I I think it's a pretty good gem.
Speaker 3: I think the guy should get a second chance to
Speaker 3: be a GM. What is he like? Physical football? Mike
Speaker 3: zimmer right, the way they played in Minnesota all those years,
Speaker 3: seems like Jim Harbaughs his type guy. So I think
Speaker 3: you start connecting the dots. I didn't even think about that.
Speaker 3: Right down the road from each other in Baltimore. He
Speaker 3: can bring his parents, You get to be around both families.
Speaker 3: Makes a lot of sense. But there was a lot
Speaker 3: of reporting today Arthur Blank's eighty one years old, He's
Speaker 3: got a ton of money. He's gonna go big game hunting.
Speaker 3: I think Harbaugh, you said it yesterday when we were
Speaker 3: talking that he's not gonna interview with ten jobs, but
Speaker 3: they are gonna be some of these owners. They're gonna
Speaker 3: be aggressive for him, are gonna be very aggressive, and
Speaker 3: the money is not going to be an issue for them.
Speaker 3: So these numbers are gonna be really high. They're gonna
Speaker 3: have no problem cutting an enormous check to just get
Speaker 3: the sit down. Like Jim, we're prepared. We just we
Speaker 3: just want to get a yes from you. So Arthur Blank,
Speaker 3: Josh Harris, I think these people, so when we talk
Speaker 3: about the spanos is for the first time, you know,
Speaker 3: really in the modern eight, they're gonna have to if
Speaker 3: they want to match these guys, because they do have
Speaker 3: the money if they want to match them, but their
Speaker 3: mentality is going to have to be aggression, which we
Speaker 3: could argue is not really ever been their thing. Where
Speaker 3: Josh Harris is used to that, right, He's been in
Speaker 3: the NBA a lot where you gotta go big game
Speaker 3: hunting clearly gets rid of Ron Rivera a lot brings
Speaker 3: in Bob Myers like, this guy's very forward thinking. Twenty
Speaker 3: twenty four can Dean And again, Mark Davis already has
Speaker 3: a relationship with Jim, and we talked about this. He's
Speaker 3: cut one hundred million dollar check six years ago to
Speaker 3: John Gruden. So they're gonna be four or five teams
Speaker 3: willing to cut enormous amounts of money towards Jim just
Speaker 3: gonna be his preference. And I think Washington definitely has
Speaker 3: a lot to offer when you factor in the draft capital.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think Jim who is you know, it's
Speaker 2: a big advantage. Wherever Jim goes, he's going to want some,
Speaker 2: you know, some personnel power. He's probably recruited Drake May,
Speaker 2: so you know, for him it's like who do I
Speaker 2: like more, Drake May or Herbert. I mean he may
Speaker 2: look at that and think, well, Herbert's getting paid. I
Speaker 2: get four to five years of Drake Man. I could
Speaker 2: I could see absolutely him saying, listen, I'm the third
Speaker 2: coach for Herbert, Like the first two didn't work. If
Speaker 2: the kids special, some of these guys should work. So
Speaker 2: you know, I could The Washington one's really interesting. And
Speaker 2: you know, right now, Jim lives in an arbor and
Speaker 2: his you know, mom and dad live right next door.
Speaker 2: So I think that's bigger than people think. I think
Speaker 2: the ability to have the hardballs in d C And Baltimore,
Speaker 2: I think that's a real thing. I could see that
Speaker 2: family saying, we don't want to make mom and dad
Speaker 2: fly out west, get on a plane fly They can
Speaker 2: just drive back and forth. Get him a driver. They
Speaker 2: don't have to do all the DC driving. That's a
Speaker 2: real discussion. I could think that see that family having
Speaker 2: it again. I Washington has the most cap space, the
Speaker 2: number two pick a serviceable quarterback in Samuel. He's serviceable,
Speaker 2: no pressure to play him. And again I think their
Speaker 2: roster is pretty solid.
Speaker 3: When everyone thought Alex Smith those one of the biggest
Speaker 3: busts of all time, Jim Harbaugh during the lockout convinced
Speaker 3: him to come back and immediately won game for a
Speaker 3: year and a half with him before he got that concussion.
Speaker 3: What could he just won a national championship with I
Speaker 3: mean essentially a college game manager. Now, I know he
Speaker 3: has foot you know NFL prospects physical skills, but he
Speaker 3: doesn't play like that in college. So Jim doesn't look
Speaker 3: at it like I need Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen
Speaker 3: to win. That's not the way he's wired. The way
Speaker 3: he coaches football because his mentality is we're gonna build
Speaker 3: a dominant defense. Washington has some players on defense, and
Speaker 3: he knows, like you said, recruit all these guys. They're
Speaker 3: gonna have money to buy the guys and offensively, it's
Speaker 3: in modern times, a little bit of an archaic style,
Speaker 3: but it always works for Jim Right, It's worked for
Speaker 3: him for now fifteen years.
Speaker 2: I'm you know, McCarthy doesn't work for me. You know,
Speaker 2: you know how like Russell Wilson got smaller quarterbacks drafted,
Speaker 2: the opposite, the inverse could be true, where a smaller
Speaker 2: quarterback fails and people are like, whoa, whoa, whoa. When
Speaker 2: I watched McCarthy, he weighs about two hundred pounds, he
Speaker 2: feels yeah, Max, he just feels too slight. I watched
Speaker 2: Bryce Young, and I'm like, he just doesn't look the part. JJ.
Speaker 2: McCarthy looks like a little taller version of Bryce Young
Speaker 2: where he's just not thick through the hips. It's like
Speaker 2: he looks slight, like he's gonna have to really to
Speaker 2: get to two oh two you know, you start watching
Speaker 2: Josh Allen on Sunday night, and you start watching these
Speaker 2: star quarterbacks like they carry two thirty, two thirty five,
Speaker 2: Manning Brady, even Aaron Rodgers is like two twenty seven,
Speaker 2: and he looks slender. So if you're if you're battling
Speaker 2: to stay above two hundred, and he's athletic, but he's
Speaker 2: not hyper athletic. He's not Kyler Murray. He's not making
Speaker 2: people miss I don't think McCarthy to me, is like
Speaker 2: a third round quarterback. I don't really get.
Speaker 3: It, totally agree. I mean, all this hype about him
Speaker 3: being a top ten prospect is in sandity to me,
Speaker 3: insanity to me. To me, he looks like a second
Speaker 3: day player for sure, and a guy that can't play
Speaker 3: right away in the NFL. One he has asked to
Speaker 3: play like that in college. Well, in the NFL you
Speaker 3: have to make throws on third down, which they try
Speaker 3: to avoid at all costs. Look at the way they
Speaker 3: played tonight. They tried and they have and you can
Speaker 3: make the argument, well that's how they play. I think
Speaker 3: they're a little uncomfortable with having to lean on him,
Speaker 3: where Washington's the opposite. They have to lean on their
Speaker 3: quarterback and as he's off, they're screwed where they don't
Speaker 3: have to. But I'm with you. He obviously has a
Speaker 3: live arm and he's a good athlete. But to me,
Speaker 3: the frame very thin and under no circumstance is going
Speaker 3: to take him in the first round. Over what he's
Speaker 3: done in college doesn't mean he can't develop overtime. Ideally,
Speaker 3: to me, he's drafted on the second day, gets to
Speaker 3: kind of sit get bigger and kind of progress. You know,
Speaker 3: Jimmy Garoppa, A lot of players they get drafted on
Speaker 3: the second day don't have to play right away. Maybe
Speaker 3: you go to a better situation and you get behind,
Speaker 3: you know, a guy that's already a starter, and you
Speaker 3: kind of work your way in. But this talk about
Speaker 3: him being a high first round pick, I think that's
Speaker 3: a little bit of the media, you know, college football
Speaker 3: hype machine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we're gonna have Caleb Williams, Drake May,
Speaker 2: Jade and Daniels. Feel like top ten. Bow Nix will
Speaker 2: be somewhere like eleven to sixteen. I think I saw
Speaker 2: bow play twice live. There's a little Drew Brees high accuracy.
Speaker 2: He's athletic, he's pretty cut. He's more athletic than people think,
Speaker 2: but he doesn't feel like a top six seven pick.
Speaker 2: So okay, so we we both sort of agree. I
Speaker 2: think we both agree. Harbaugh's off to the NFL. I
Speaker 2: think you've convinced me Washington could have a slight edge,
Speaker 2: you know, in that division. It's interesting too. So in
Speaker 2: that division, I mean you got to think about everything.
Speaker 2: Although Harball wouldn't probably spend much time on this. Mike McCarthy,
Speaker 2: Nick Sirianni.
Speaker 3: Right defensive coordinator, just quit.
Speaker 2: I saw Waite Martindale.
Speaker 3: The Giants have a lot of issues, I was told
Speaker 3: and I said this on the pod a month and
Speaker 3: a half ago. The coaches didn't like him, and I
Speaker 3: thought Dave was really good last year, but they have
Speaker 3: had a lot of strife internally, and there was a
Speaker 3: lot of talk everything's fine, everything's fine. Well, one of
Speaker 3: the best assets on the coaching staff was like, I'm
Speaker 3: out Quit, which is not normal. I mean, that's a
Speaker 3: huge red flag. He wasn't fired. He said I want out,
Speaker 3: you know. So the day Ball situation, let's face it, offensively,
Speaker 3: they haven't really been explosive. Their tied to Daniel Jones,
Speaker 3: and now they lose their defensive coordinator. They've been excellent
Speaker 3: on defense. I mean last year they made the playoffs
Speaker 3: because it's not like they were scoring a lot of points.
Speaker 3: So I would say the Giants are very, very influx.
Speaker 3: The Eagles know, we've never seen a ten to one
Speaker 3: team leak oil like them and the Cowboys. You can
Speaker 3: feel the pressure building right every playoff game if something
Speaker 3: gets weird. Jerry's getting older, is liable to do something crazy,
Speaker 3: even he didn't really give him the ringing endorsement going
Speaker 3: into the playoffs, right, We'll see what happens. So I yeah,
Speaker 3: I think Washington. I still think the Raiders are You know,
Speaker 3: the history of football means something to Jim. You know,
Speaker 3: you get a a blank slate, like you said, the
Speaker 3: Chargers isn't necessarily a blank slate. You get Herbert, But
Speaker 3: there is a lot of other stuff going on.
Speaker 2: And they have some cap space issues. You've got to
Speaker 2: move off some people there. Washington has got the most
Speaker 2: cap space. There's a romance about the Raiders. I just
Speaker 2: seen so many coaches fail there after a while, it
Speaker 2: feels like there's a systemic problem beyond just like the
Speaker 2: helmet and the logo like Mark Davis is one of
Speaker 2: the poorest owners, and it's you know, they've made some
Speaker 2: bad decisions on personnel, head coaching GM. So I think
Speaker 2: i'd pass on that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would too. I just think Jim's crazy enough
Speaker 3: to be to be connected there, which I believe, and
Speaker 3: I think it's fair to say it would shock me
Speaker 3: if he doesn't even pick up David Tepper's call at
Speaker 3: this point. That organization's got a lot of issues, a
Speaker 3: lot of questions, and it doesn't really feel like Bryce
Speaker 3: Young would be I mean, Jim would have him by
Speaker 3: about five inches and forty five pounds, so it doesn't
Speaker 3: seem like he'd be that interesting. Did in that quarterback?
Speaker 2: Let's spend five minutes on this. So the playoff bracket
Speaker 2: is out. I don't we don't need to go game
Speaker 2: by game, but I do think it's interesting. The game
Speaker 2: that really jumps out to me is the Rams against
Speaker 2: the Lions. Sam Laporta is hurt, the remarkable rookie tight
Speaker 2: end for Detroit. You know, I went through I went
Speaker 2: through coaching is so valuable. I went through the Rams
Speaker 2: and the Lions today on the show, and I kind
Speaker 2: of I wrote down things that matter head coach. RAMS advantage,
Speaker 2: quarterback RAMS advantage. I like their wide receivers, Pooka and Cooper.
Speaker 2: Wide receiver advantage. If Laporta is out, tight end advantage.
Speaker 2: O line advantage, especially left tackle. It's Detroit, but PFF
Speaker 2: has the Rams. It's like the tenth best offensive line
Speaker 2: and they're pretty good left guard over to the right tackle.
Speaker 2: The Jackson's an undrafted left tackle. He's serviceable, he's not great.
Speaker 2: They're going to draft to tackle very early. I've been
Speaker 2: told in the draft. You know, my gut feeling on
Speaker 2: that is the Lions should win the game. But you
Speaker 2: talked about the injury report. Dan Campbell said today there's
Speaker 2: an outside shot Laporta plays. I know tight ends don't
Speaker 2: drive lines in Vegas, but I felt like without Laporta,
Speaker 2: I I mean, here's the thing. The Rams weakness. They
Speaker 2: leak on the back end of the secondary. Well, nobody
Speaker 2: leaks like the Lions. So I just I don't know,
Speaker 2: I just I found myself today the more I looked
Speaker 2: at that injury report, I'm like, God's that could be
Speaker 2: a bit of a coaching mismatch.
Speaker 3: I also think these playoff games, you know the way
Speaker 3: the it's one and done. All of a sudden, the
Speaker 3: Rams you're up seventeen to ten. That place gets tight.
Speaker 3: Dan Campbell gets tighted, he gets a little over aggressive.
Speaker 3: Sometimes you can see that thing unraveling. The other thing
Speaker 3: what gets with Jared Goff pressure. Now he's a much
Speaker 3: better quarterback in a dome, in a controlled environment, no weather.
Speaker 3: But if they can hit him, and what are the Rams,
Speaker 3: you know Aaron Donald's gonna be bringing it. The young
Speaker 3: pass rusher they drafted in the mid rounds from Wake
Speaker 3: Forest is pretty good, so they can get Raheem Morris
Speaker 3: is you know a guy that's gonna be interviewing all
Speaker 3: over the league. He's a really good defensive coordinator. That
Speaker 3: Laporte injury, He's not Rob Gronkowski or he can play
Speaker 3: at seventy percent like as an inline blocker. He's an
Speaker 3: athletic at He's a Kelsey type. So that that is
Speaker 3: a devastating injury for them because to me, if they
Speaker 3: were fully healthy, you go listen, the Rams probably top
Speaker 3: to bottom have a little or excuse me, the Lions
Speaker 3: have more talent. Yeah, this guy is an elite player.
Speaker 3: I mean he is a premium tied end. That's a
Speaker 3: devastating injury. So I gotta go with McVeigh and the Rams,
Speaker 3: which is sad because the Lions have had a remarkable
Speaker 3: Season's only a second time in ninety years, Colin. They've
Speaker 3: won twelve games. I mean, Niners won twelve games like
Speaker 3: five times in the last decade. They've won it twice
Speaker 3: in ninety years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I do think to your point. I mean McVeigh,
Speaker 2: I mean, the Packers in Houston are playing with house
Speaker 2: money because they got in. But I mean this was
Speaker 2: a rebuild year for McVeigh, so they're going to come
Speaker 2: in with a ton of energy. I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: it's interesting if you go look at the Rams season.
Speaker 2: The most impressive moment to me, Baltimore's off a buy
Speaker 2: early start East Coast. They go out there and outplay
Speaker 2: them and their leaky special teams lose the game. I
Speaker 2: watched Baltimore crush the Niners, crush Miami, crush Seattle, crush Detroit,
Speaker 2: and then I watch the Rams go out there and
Speaker 2: line up with them physically, and it's like, Okay, that's
Speaker 2: not an illusion that they're that lost to Baltimore. I
Speaker 2: remember after that game I'm thinking, oh, this is all real,
Speaker 2: this is absolutely real. And then you know, a couple
Speaker 2: of weeks later, Baltimore hammers the Niners. It happens occasionally
Speaker 2: where you'll playoff run and you'll go back and go,
Speaker 2: oh god, yeah, of course. And I look at that
Speaker 2: Rams lost to Baltimore and I think, just look who
Speaker 2: Baltimore has man handled in the last two months.
Speaker 3: Well, the Rams have a quarterback that, when he's on
Speaker 3: is can go toe to toe with Mahomes Josh Allen Lamar, Right,
Speaker 3: forty nine ers can't say that, right, that he's not
Speaker 3: that talented and Matt Stafford in that game the rain
Speaker 3: was pumping and it was pouring on and he was elite.
Speaker 3: The other thing is their wide receivers are really physical
Speaker 3: a lot like forty nine ers. They're willing to go
Speaker 3: over the middle, take hits, they break tackles, and it
Speaker 3: was on full display. I mean, Pooka is truly one
Speaker 3: of the better rookie stories in recent memory. I mean,
Speaker 3: he is a he's an elite player. So if they
Speaker 3: beat you know, the Lions, then they would play the
Speaker 3: forty nine Ers, assuming the Packers lose. Now I would
Speaker 3: take I would pick the forty nine ers going into
Speaker 3: that game. But the Rams are gonna feel comfortable a
Speaker 3: team that they've seen a lot, that they've beat before.
Speaker 3: In a massive game, there'd be a lot of pressure,
Speaker 3: you know, the Niners would be favor but they would
Speaker 3: have a ton of momentum going into that game because
Speaker 3: they've had to keep playing, right Hell, they just they
Speaker 3: rolled out Wentz, who the they resurrected from the dead
Speaker 3: so that they have. It's cool to see that Sean,
Speaker 3: you know, turned down that money he belongs in coaching.
Speaker 3: Clearly he's reinvigorated now saying I'm coming back for twenty four.
Speaker 3: He's on a year to year basis, but he's got
Speaker 3: to feel pretty good about his squad headed in the playoffs.
Speaker 3: And let's face it, if they just win a playoff
Speaker 3: game on the road, What a remarkable season from Sean McVay.
Speaker 3: Because we all define guys over their championship years, but really,
Speaker 3: you build a resume like Andy Reid build a resume
Speaker 3: for fifteen years every year going to the playoffs, winning
Speaker 3: games when guys were hurt, when he had to go
Speaker 3: with the backup quarterback. What Sean McVay has done this
Speaker 3: year with random young guys and some of his old
Speaker 3: core guys. Is one of the better stories of the year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think you know that's the thing as
Speaker 2: again Michigan Thump's Washington and I look at Harball who
Speaker 2: is and Jed Fish was on my show today, the
Speaker 2: Arizona coach, and he said, Yeah, the most competitive coach
Speaker 2: I've ever worked with. I think Jim. I think John
Speaker 2: Harbaugh he wants to face McVeigh, he wants to face
Speaker 2: Andy Reid. He may not want to face his brother,
Speaker 2: but I mean he's proven. Ryan Day is considered an
Speaker 2: elite college coach, and Jim's got his way with him right.
Speaker 2: Kaylin de Boor is considered the best young coach in
Speaker 2: college football. Jim completely stifled their game plan with an
Speaker 2: NFL receiver and three NFL NFL quarterback, three NFL receivers.
Speaker 2: I think Jim looks around college football and thinks, Okay,
Speaker 2: I've beat Saban this year. I own Ryan Day, Kaylin
Speaker 2: de Boor whatever. He's a competitive guy. John. I think
Speaker 2: he wants he wants to go after McVeigh. He proved
Speaker 2: he can beat Pete Carroll. He wants to go after
Speaker 2: Andy Reid. McVeigh and I if you're competitive, I think
Speaker 2: it's the next logical step. He's proved, I mean, God,
Speaker 2: and just what fitting way Saban check the rising star,
Speaker 2: Kailin de Board check, Ryan Day check. Like it's just perfect.
Speaker 3: And let's face it, in the Big Ten, even with
Speaker 3: these teams coming in half his games, he's the heavy
Speaker 3: favorite in him and it's just not the same. I mean,
Speaker 3: he's up twenty five to nothing and a half over
Speaker 3: the majority of the Big Ten opponents. In the NFL,
Speaker 3: I don't care who you're playing. You could play a
Speaker 3: random five win team on a given. You played the
Speaker 3: Arizona Cardinals this year down the stretch, you got a
Speaker 3: tough game. So the level of competition is clearly so
Speaker 3: much higher in the NFL, and the coaching from an
Speaker 3: intellectual level, it's less about the motivation and more outthinking you,
Speaker 3: more out scheming, you, more putting players, making personnel moves.
Speaker 3: And let's face it, Jim thrived at that with the
Speaker 3: forty nine ers, I mean really did. His disastrous year
Speaker 3: was eight and eight. You know, people like, oh, you
Speaker 3: got run out of town. It wasn't that bad. How
Speaker 3: many coaches this year would have died to go eight
Speaker 3: and eight. So Jim's ceiling, or excuse me, his floor
Speaker 3: is just so high. And I'm telling you his ability
Speaker 3: to build a coaching staff because he knows he's not
Speaker 3: mister scheme guy like his brother, and what do they
Speaker 3: hang their hat on having the best in the brightest
Speaker 3: and they do a good job. We talked about this
Speaker 3: with Belichick being so insulated with only the guys he's
Speaker 3: known from when they were twenty two. They will take
Speaker 3: young guys who maybe are thirty or thirty that have
Speaker 3: been somewhere else and then mold them. He did it
Speaker 3: with Jed Fish, He's done it with Sharon Moore. He's
Speaker 3: doing it now with Mentor Harbaugh's the same way, and
Speaker 3: they develop coaches really, really well. I think how many
Speaker 3: guys get jobs like this is the difference between like
Speaker 3: I've always said about Andy Reid, Belichick, all his assistants
Speaker 3: go on and have some semblance of a success. A
Speaker 3: lot of them have a lot of success, and it's
Speaker 3: because he's open minded to bringing guys on. Same thing
Speaker 3: with the Harbob brothers. They're willing to talk and meet
Speaker 3: with anyone, not just because well, you didn't work in
Speaker 3: this system. Well are you good coach? But do do
Speaker 3: you have qualities that I like? And I think Jim
Speaker 3: I would look for his coaching staff. Like if you
Speaker 3: told me next year, whatever job he has, that team's
Speaker 3: obviously had a bad year previously, they're immediately competitive. I
Speaker 3: believe I'd bet on it. I hammered the over of
Speaker 3: whoever he dakes. I'll tell you that.
Speaker 2: Well that so the parent, the parents issue the you know,
Speaker 2: close to John.
Speaker 3: And they're clearly getting older, right.
Speaker 2: Absolute getting older doesn't have to face his brother. And
Speaker 2: if you look at the NFC right now, there's not
Speaker 2: a lot of great young quarterbacks. I mean no, Jim.
Speaker 2: Jim looks out there and sees Josh Allen and Mahomes
Speaker 2: and Burrow and Lamar. You look over the NFC, I
Speaker 2: mean it's it's I mean, Stafford's great, but he's got
Speaker 2: probably two great years.
Speaker 3: Left after five years old.
Speaker 2: It's it's a lot of you know, it could be
Speaker 2: really I mean, if he gets one of the two,
Speaker 2: he gets Drake, may somebody else in the NFC gets
Speaker 2: Caleb Williams. For all we know, for the next five years,
Speaker 2: those are the two best young quarterbacks in the NFC
Speaker 2: next year, this year's draft, it's going to be a
Speaker 2: great class, or you know in twenty twenty four, the
Speaker 2: following year is not supposed to be as good. It's
Speaker 2: kind of a it's a bit of a dip yere
Speaker 2: So huh, I'm just congrass the Michigan.
Speaker 3: Who would you like more if I told you that
Speaker 3: Drake May go's a Hardbaugh in Washington and Caleb goes
Speaker 3: with eber Flus and Getze in Chicago. Who do you
Speaker 3: think is better? Right away? I'd probably bet on Drake
Speaker 3: May having more success immediately because.
Speaker 2: Certainly in year one, Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, in
Speaker 2: year one it would be Drake May and I do
Speaker 2: I think. I don't think it could be. Underscore is that,
Speaker 2: you know, Sam Howe will lets you you're gonna be
Speaker 2: no pressure year one, right, You're gonna get to make
Speaker 2: any money, doesn't matter. But it also allows you to
Speaker 2: go into camp with a pro. And again, Sam Howe
Speaker 2: with Ron Rivera is not Sam Howe with Jim Hardbaugh.
Speaker 2: He's going to be a better version, the best version
Speaker 2: of himself. And you know, Jim, I could see him
Speaker 2: playing him till mid up mid November, around Thanksgiving and say, Okay,
Speaker 2: we're not gonna win the Super Bowl here, all right, kid,
Speaker 2: We've shored up the old line. You got some protection.
Speaker 2: Washington's got receivers, a couple backs.
Speaker 3: I like.
Speaker 2: There's a lot about Washington. You know, I watched Washington
Speaker 2: a couple times earlier this year. I think they beat
Speaker 2: at Denver, They've played with Philadelphia, and I'm like, they
Speaker 2: just need a better quarterback and a better coach. Like
Speaker 2: I was talking on the Seattle radio station this morning,
Speaker 2: I said, if if you gave Pete Carroll right now,
Speaker 2: Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen with that roster, you're going to
Speaker 2: the super Bowl. It's like you get the quarterback right.
Speaker 2: It's amazing how it just it just erases your flaws.
Speaker 2: I mean, I still contend after Stefan Diggs, Buffalo's offense
Speaker 2: is not that talented. No, you watch it with Josh.
Speaker 2: You watch it with Josh there like, what a big
Speaker 2: play offense.
Speaker 3: This is totally I'm just glad. Jim. I remember as
Speaker 3: a kid, you know, I grew up around a lot
Speaker 3: of Joe Montana lifers, and they always kind of I
Speaker 3: felt had it out for Steve and you could feel
Speaker 3: it when they finally got the monkey off his back
Speaker 3: and Gary Plummer and he won that Super Bowl because
Speaker 3: he was a chainampionship level player and it just took
Speaker 3: him a little longer. To me, Jim Harbaugh has been
Speaker 3: a championship level coach, you know, just didn't happen at
Speaker 3: forty eight years old, but it happened at sixty. And
Speaker 3: I'm just glad people don't talk to him about him
Speaker 3: as a guy. Andy Reid was that way for a
Speaker 3: long time. It's like, do you watch this guy coach?
Speaker 3: I mean, he's better than ninety eight percent of coaches. Ever,
Speaker 3: it's like he's gonna be He's gonna get over the hump.
Speaker 3: And now Jim has a chance if he goes to
Speaker 3: the pros to you know, join a small company of
Speaker 3: guys that have won on both levels. Right, That's that's
Speaker 3: a pretty special group to be sitting at the table.
Speaker 2: With John Middlecow, former NFL scout. He's got a podcast
Speaker 2: three and out, so valuable to our podcast company, the
Speaker 2: volume which is just smoking. Shannon Sharp, John Jason Timp,
Speaker 2: Draymond Green. We've got just five twenties, a new one.
Speaker 2: Daniel Cormier, The Fantasy pros love where we're at.
Speaker 3: Just when are you gonna have Kat Williams on your podcast?
Speaker 2: Yeah know that thing?
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: I had people come up to me that I didn't
Speaker 2: even I didn't even I mean I got people that
Speaker 2: went to the Volume in the last week that I
Speaker 2: don't even think they knew what the Volume was like
Speaker 2: a week ago.
Speaker 3: It's just crazy.
Speaker 2: Shannon's been such a you know, we're very lucky. We
Speaker 2: just signed Raymond Green, and you know, it's it's we
Speaker 2: can talk about this because that's what the podcast is for.
Speaker 2: Social media has really created an environment. It's an avalanche
Speaker 2: and everybody wants to jump on the avalanche and bury people,
Speaker 2: but nobody wants to grab a shovel and help people
Speaker 2: that have been rolled over in the avalanche. And when
Speaker 2: Draymond Green it is He told the story today and
Speaker 2: it's absolutely true. We were in his house getting ready
Speaker 2: to sign the comp We were negotiating the contract for
Speaker 2: over a year. We were in his house. My staff
Speaker 2: was when Adam silvercalled and suspended him. We're in his
Speaker 2: house and we said, hey man, you want us to
Speaker 2: announce it today that you signed with the Volume. We're
Speaker 2: not going to we got our shovels here, man, don't worry.
Speaker 2: We got your back. And I'll get pushed back for that,
Speaker 2: which I could couldn't give a rip. But the point
Speaker 2: being is we live in this world now where if
Speaker 2: something goes sideway, somebody steps in it, you me, Draymond.
Speaker 2: And Draymond's the first to admit, I mean, I had
Speaker 2: to get some help. You know, I was really wrong.
Speaker 2: I did something really inappropriate that I'm this is a
Speaker 2: talent first company because I've been on the air for
Speaker 2: thirty years, and it's like we all step in it.
Speaker 2: I'm not we all step in it. Draymond's incredibly coachable,
Speaker 2: and he also acknowledges I'm made a huge mistake. I apologize.
Speaker 2: So I love having him. People wouldn't have believed. I'm
Speaker 2: glad Draymond told the story. People would not have believed
Speaker 2: that we were in his damn house and Adam calls
Speaker 2: and says, you're suspended, and he's like, oh brother, and
Speaker 2: we're like, we got your back, man, don't worry about it,
Speaker 2: we understand it. Listen. And the other thing I've always said,
Speaker 2: you know, this is a warrior guy. So in hockey,
Speaker 2: if you have a great player. Look at look at Gretzky.
Speaker 2: You have a you have a protector. You've got somebody
Speaker 2: that's on the ice. They're somewhere getting his getting on,
Speaker 2: maybe the beer or the sea line, but somebody around
Speaker 2: to protect him. Most great teams have a physical presence.
Speaker 2: The Pistons had several. If you took Draymon out of
Speaker 2: the Warriors, and Steve Kerr has told a friend of
Speaker 2: mine who had covered the team, Draymond's so elevated practice,
Speaker 2: Like this team got you know, baskets came so easy
Speaker 2: for the Warriors and the Dynasty. They could get a little,
Speaker 2: a little sloppy. You know, there's there was sort of
Speaker 2: a globe trotter element to this team behind the backs.
Speaker 2: You're like, when points come easy, it's different if you're
Speaker 2: a team that's built on defense, When you're a team
Speaker 2: built on threes, points come easy. That Draymond was such
Speaker 2: a catalystic practice to stay on guys ass that her.
Speaker 2: You know he was there. He's like I've been with Michael.
Speaker 2: Like Michael, when you start winning these titles one after another.
Speaker 2: Michael held everybody accountable on a Tuesday practice against the
Speaker 2: bad Denver team, and so you know, it's easy to
Speaker 2: dump on Draymond, but outside of staff, he's the soul
Speaker 2: of that franchise.
Speaker 1: Sports sometimes needs to have a little crazy, you know.
Speaker 1: You know this is not pee wee sports that this
Speaker 1: is not your typical office setting in an insurance company.
Speaker 1: I remember talking to John Lynch one time and I said,
Speaker 1: do you think they would have kicked you out of
Speaker 1: the NFL.
Speaker 3: This is a guy that's viewed as like super high character,
Speaker 3: mister president. Everyone loves him. He used to kill people.
Speaker 3: I mean he couldn't play today. And the sports that
Speaker 3: I grew up on fights left and right in baseball,
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just this isn't I think sometimes social
Speaker 3: media magnifies this stuff. Now, let's Draymond. The hit in
Speaker 3: the Phoenix game was obviously over the top, But like
Speaker 3: the NBA I grew up on, I mean, they were
Speaker 3: all out brawls all the time. Just google basket in
Speaker 3: the nineties, not that long ago, and that was celebrated.
Speaker 3: You needed those guys. Not everyone could be Michael Jordan.
Speaker 3: Not everyone can be Barry Sanders. That is part of
Speaker 3: the deal. I think sometimes a lot of people try
Speaker 3: to input their own situation in their own life in
Speaker 3: the sporting world, and it's just completely different. You don't
Speaker 3: get you don't get mf'd by your boss on a
Speaker 3: daily basis like you do from a coach in sports.
Speaker 3: So it's I like to have some crazy guys on
Speaker 3: my team, whether it's a podcast network or whether it's
Speaker 3: on my sport team.
Speaker 2: So good stuff. We knocked out about forty five minutes.
Speaker 2: John Middelcoff. Listen to him at the Volume three and
Speaker 2: out appreciate it. John Nick writes on the show, I'm
Speaker 2: talking to him tomorrow, so that'll be released Tuesday night
Speaker 2: and Wednesday morning. And thanks everybody for hanging with us.
Speaker 2: Michigan thirty four to thirteen earned earn that championship. Our
Speaker 2: guests Harbod Jettison's college off to the NFL if he
Speaker 2: comes back. Don't have a problem with that either. He's
Speaker 2: great for college football. John, we'll talk soon.
Speaker 3: Seek the volume