WEBVTT - Brandi Carlile 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:14.600 Pushkin, armed with only what she calls poor kid work ethic. 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:17.520 Brandy Carlisle spent the early part of her life fighting 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:20.880 her parents, politics, the church, and fighting to be heard 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:25.480 while singing over belligerent drunks and crowded bars. Brandy's voice 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:28.960 demands attention, as you might recall hearing in our episode 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:32.040 with Jack White and Brendan Benson. Her twenty nineteen Grammy 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:34.800 performance of her song The Joke blew even her most 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:37.960 critical of peers away. But long before that, she was 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:40.519 already making a name for herself on stages across the 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:43.760 Pacific Northwest, where she was raised and now lives with 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:47.960 her twin bandmates she simply calls the Twins, and since 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:50.879 then she's released six albums, formed The High Woman with 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:54.240 Marion Morris and Amanda Shires, and has just generally captured 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:57.760 the attention of the music world. In her chat with Rick, 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:00.600 she recounts her tumultuous passed and talked about how she's 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:03.800 learned to pick her battles over her long career. And 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:06.520 then there's a night she witnessed a miracle at Joni 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:12.920 Mitchell's house. This is broken record liner notes for the 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:21.000 Digital Age I'm justin Richmond. Just a quick note here. 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:23.240 You can listen to all of the music mentioned in 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:25.880 this episode on our playlist, which you can find a 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:29.679 link to in the show notes for licensing reasons, each 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:32.479 time a song is referenced in this episode, you'll hear 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:38.640 this sound effect. All right, enjoyed the episode. Here's Rick 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:43.480 Rubin and Brandy Carlisle from Shangula. I remember the first 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:47.800 time I saw you, and I don't remember how it 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:50.680 worked out that you were on the show that I 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:52.680 saw you at, but I saw you at a place 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:57.360 called the wilshirt Ebel Theater. Yeah, and you're opening for 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:00.320 James Taylor. And I was there to see James Taylor, 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:04.000 and I didn't know you, and I don't even think 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:06.000 I stayed to watch James Taylor. After I saw you, 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:08.840 I was so blown away. And I remember you got 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:12.640 a standing ovation as an as an unknown opening act. Yeah, 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:16.000 I remember. It was like it was it was ridiculous. 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:20.359 It was really a ridiculous performance. And the people that 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:24.440 had come to see it, like um from Columbia Records 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:28.040 and stuff, they told me the next day they said, God, 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:31.840 you know, there was no way backstage at that show. 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:36.079 But on the stage and there was no intermission between 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:37.760 me and James, and James came out to play his 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:41.880 first song and the whole theater saw you walk backstage 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:45.160 during Fire and Rain and they were like, Rick Ruman's 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:49.800 going back there. We got to sign this girl. He 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:54.160 sees something and when he sees something, it it's real, 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:58.239 and you know it was real. It really. I really 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:00.520 don't think you understand how much of an impact you 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:05.360 made in that sense, you know, happy to be of service, 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:07.920 had no idea, but happy to be of services, sir. 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:12.280 But you actually saw me way earlier than that. Yeah, yeah, 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:15.440 do you want to know? Yeah? Please? So, um, I'm 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:17.440 writing a book and I'm not sure why I'm doing it, 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:20.160 but there's a whole lot about you in there. Wow. 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:25.720 Because I got asked to open for a kid, a 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:29.560 guy called Johnny Lange in Seattle, and a guy called 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:32.160 Brendan Mendoza was in the audience. Yeah, and I was 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:34.920 only maybe nineteen thirty nine now, so it's a long 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:37.000 time ago. Yeah, Brendan Mendoza. So I worked for a 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:38.960 guy called Rick Rubin. Yeah, he was a young and 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:42.920 our guy who worked at at American Recordings. Yeah, and 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:47.960 he flew me to La to play for you at 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:52.360 a swinghouse, and no recollection of that. Well, I did 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:54.280 because it was a make or break moment in my life. 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:57.120 That was, of course. And this is an interesting thing 0:03:57.160 --> 0:04:00.640 I've learned since I gained this notoriety for an artist, 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:05.480 how a public person can have such an impact on 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:10.600 another person's life without even really knowing, you know, and 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:13.280 it's just this one of the inconsequential things. But to me, 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:17.760 it was an enormous deal because I was being flown 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:20.560 there to play for you, and I had got really sick, 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:24.960 like a laryngitis, and I have this terrible paradoxical allergy 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:27.840 to cough medicine that I didn't know about, and I 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:32.360 took a cough medicine and I started having a neurological 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:36.400 reaction to it. I had involuntary muscle spasms in my 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:40.640 face and hands, and I'm sitting there trying to play 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:44.200 my showcase for you, and I can't remember the words, 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:46.039 and my fingers won't press down on the strings to 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:48.719 play the chords, and I have muscle twitches in my jaw, 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:51.000 and I just felt like my life was ending. And 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:54.240 you interrupted my showcase and you said, is there something 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:58.479 about you today that's making you not be yourself? And 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:00.520 I said, yeah, I'm really sick and I think I'm 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:04.560 having an allergic reaction to this cough medication. And you said, well, 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:06.760 why don't you go home and get better and then 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:10.400 come back and do this again. Wow. I was like, yeah, right, yeah, 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:12.880 fucking right. I know I'm never going to get a 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:14.400 chance to come back here and play for you again. 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:18.680 And I went home, no recollection. It's unbelievable. It's a 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:23.120 great story. I went home thinking I've blown it, and 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:26.000 you brought me back two weeks later and I was 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:28.440 better and I was really ready, and I played for 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:31.120 you at Swing House and it's like, I remember what 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:33.200 I was wearing, I remember everything. And the very first 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:35.080 song I played for you was a song called Shadow 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:39.000 on the Wall. And I had showcased for just about 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:44.000 every record label and everyone passed yeah, and some people 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:45.720 didn't even wait till I was finished singing a song 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:48.760 before they leave the room. And I finished that song 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:51.000 and you put your hand up and you were sitting 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:55.880 just like that, and you said, that's a really amazing song. 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:59.320 Will you play it again? And I knew right then 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:03.440 that I was gonna make it. I knew it. I 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:05.800 was like, he wants me to play it again? And 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:08.960 I played it again and ended. You said, why don't 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:13.400 you just play it one more time? Really again? And 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:15.960 I played it again, and I played you two more songs, 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:18.800 and you had me played those songs again. And by 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:22.760 the time it had ended, I'd played three songs seven 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:26.320 or eight times. And we had a conversation. You told 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:31.760 me you'd just seen Damien Rice. Yeah, and Johnny Cash 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:35.880 was still alive. Yes, And you said that you thought 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:39.560 we would know each other and worked together down the road, 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:44.760 and a word spread about that, and you know, it 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.040 was looking like I was going to sign to American 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:50.000 for a long time. But I remember that, and I 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:53.560 remember what happened. I remember I was moving from one 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:57.360 label to another. You were in total chaos at the moment, yeah, 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:00.320 moving from one label to another. And I remember that 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:02.920 at the new label, whereas my new distributor was going 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:05.599 to be Warner Brothers. And I said, this is the 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:07.360 first act that we're going to do. And I remember 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:09.600 the Warner Brothers people didn't didn't get it and didn't 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:12.280 like it. And I remember I couldn't believe it. It's 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:16.080 like she's incredible. She's incredible. No one got it. You 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:18.840 were the first one Rick to ever get it. You're 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:21.320 the first one to ever say play that again. And 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:25.160 so I'll never forget it. And you know that James 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:27.920 Taylor's show that you were at, it made me look 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:30.600 so cool. Everybody talked about it for here. Sure that 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:34.560 the James Taylor was after the Swing House. Yeah, yeah, 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:36.920 I don't remember the Swing House, but I definitely remember 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:38.760 the James Taylor because I just couldn't believe what I 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:41.480 was seeing. Well, your life was much different than my 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:43.440 life was at the time, wasn't it. You know, No, 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.720 I trust you one. I'm not questioning what you're saying. 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:48.920 I'm just telling you I don't remember it. Yeah, I 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:53.920 bet it was. You were so beloved and just popular 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:59.480 and such an inspiration to me. Yeah, incredible, And you 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:03.000 brought me back, you gave me a second chance. And 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.440 at the James Taylor show also, Columbia Records was there, 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:09.560 and that's when I got my deal with Columbia Records 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:13.920 and made my first album, Amazing. And then I remember 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:15.520 when I was at Columbia for a little while, we 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:19.960 worked together on Give Up the Ghost whatever, Yeah, whatever 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:21.840 album you're working on at the time, and I remember 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:24.720 it was fun. It was fun. Yeah. Yeah, that's still 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:29.640 my favorite album actually beautiful, Yeah, beautiful, I love it. It 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:32.720 It was a big emotional hard time for me in 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:35.560 my life. I don't like who I was really at 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:39.720 that time, but um, I liked the album. Yeah, I remember. 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:43.520 I just remember the power in the vocals was off 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:47.520 the chart, like yeah, because you had me singing into 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:52.760 a sm seven right, is that what they're called microphone? Yeah, 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:56.280 And every other microphone i'd ever sang into, I would distort, 0:08:57.080 --> 0:08:59.000 so the engineer or the producer would ask me to 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:02.440 sing differently. I end up doing a little mic control. Yeah, 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:06.120 and it messed with my performance emotionally. So I never 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:08.560 sounded on an album like I did Live and Tell 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:11.440 that album because we use the same mike you would 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:15.560 use live, because you sounded good live, Yeah, And you 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:18.160 just seems like it would be obvious now it seems 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:20.840 like it would be obvious, but apparently it's only obvious 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:26.200 to you. So since then, how many albums have you 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:33.560 made seven seven as an artist? Yes, and the last 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:39.280 one was maybe You're most well received of the bat, 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:43.680 which is unusual in today's world because normally first couple 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:45.760 of albums tend to do really good and then people 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:49.480 fade away and you've only kind of continued to build 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:53.520 over the seven albums. Yeah, yeah, because of that. But 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:55.000 some of it has to do with just sort of 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.800 like a cultural undertone, like where we are in the 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:00.720 world right now and the perspective that the album was 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:04.920 written from. I think it gave people comfort in a 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:07.480 way that it resonated sort of beyond I think me 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:10.280 as an artist and more into the sort of culturals 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:13.160 that gust of like, I wonder if that's true. I 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:16.640 think you're selling yourself short, do you think? I don't know. 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:20.760 I think it belongs to the moment, but maybe maybe yes, 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:24.160 it belongs to the moment, and yes, the moment plays 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:27.839 a role. But the reason people like it is because 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:31.520 you're great. And that's the real reason. Thank you. I 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:34.640 will receive that. I think, weren't it great? And it 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:37.200 was right in the moment, it wouldn't matter at all 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:42.120 and nobody would notice. It's because it's great, So thank you. 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:52.080 Tell me about your situation growing up well, Seattle, Seattle, 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:56.280 just outside of Seattle. I started out living in the 0:10:56.320 --> 0:11:01.079 airport town outside of Seattle seatach Burian area. We moved 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:02.880 out to a single white trailer in the middle of 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:07.559 the country when I started fifth grade, and up until 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.160 that point we were only allowed to listen to like 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:14.079 classic country and western music. It's what my mother sang 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:18.120 and her father and big country music family. Where were 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:23.360 they from Oklahoma and the well they went up north, 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:26.839 so Oklahoma. Both sides of the family were actually from Oklahoma, 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:31.199 and some of them just migrated around, you know, the country. 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:34.720 My great grandparents lived in an RV. They just toured 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:37.760 around following bluegrass festivals, the really small ones, you know. 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:41.360 So it was always a musical family. Yeah, yeah, a 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:43.640 musical family without us really even knowing where a musical family, 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:46.480 we thought all families or musical families. So everybody played, 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:49.960 everybody played something or supported it in some way. And 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:53.320 then my mother side of the family went from there 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:57.120 to up north between Fargo and Minneapolis, plays called Wobin 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:00.839 northern Minnesota. They started the whole it's not Southern, it's 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:06.480 Western thing about country music and moved west and so 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:10.280 country music was our family's thing, and I got out 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:14.440 to the country for the first time and started to 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:19.720 feel weird, started to feel weird and gay, and I 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:23.240 picked up a fifth grade book report on a kid 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:27.720 called Ryan White who died of AIDS in nineteen ninety one. 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:33.800 He was a hemophiliac and when he was diagnosed with HIV, 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:37.960 the church tried to politicize him and get him to 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:41.920 speak out against gay men and imply that it was 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.240 disease it was created by by gay men. And in 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:47.160 the book he was befriended by a guy called Elton John. 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:52.720 And I saw this book report as a departure from 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:57.840 my family in a weird way their politics. Something was 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:00.160 starting to become clear about my sexuality because I was 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:04.640 eleven and this guy, Elton John, seemed really special to me. 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:07.240 So I went to the King County Library and I 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:12.760 checked out two CDs, Tumbleweed Connection and the one here 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:14.480 and There that had Skyline Pigeon on it because he's 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:16.880 sang it at this kid's funeral. And I loved that 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:19.920 boy and wrote this big book report on him. And 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:25.120 I checked out a biography by Philip Norman, and I 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:30.760 got into David Bowie via Elton John, and also Queen 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:35.480 became fascinated with Freddie Mercury George Michael, You Two and 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:39.120 the Beatles all in this on this biography that I 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:43.920 had read, and I started dressing different, talking different, arguing 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:48.160 politics with my dad, and started liking a different kind 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:52.800 of music and started standing out and becoming an artist. 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.040 And it was hard. It was hard on my parents spiritually, 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:59.360 politically was hard because we were poor and I was 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:05.160 already weird enough at school. But that's when I started 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:08.360 to take a turn away from just playing the spoons 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:11.560 and singing at family jams to really wanting to be 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:15.400 an artist. And then when did you start singing? What 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:20.440 was your first professional experience singing? We had these auditions 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:23.920 at this place called the Northwest Grand Ole Opry, where 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:28.280 my mom's dad was the kind of patriarch family yodeling, 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:32.320 very glamorous, amazing man. He'd died really young, of Luke 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:36.240 Garret's as he's actually he was only fifty, and with 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:39.160 the money he left, which was not much, it was 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:41.080 just enough for my mom to buy a little PA system, 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.200 and she decided to start doing music for real because 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:44.840 he was gone and she wanted to do something to 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:50.720 heel herself, and she started doing auditions and she took 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:52.600 me with her to an audition at a place called 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:55.560 the Northwest grand Ole Opry and I got to audition too, 0:14:56.480 --> 0:15:00.200 and we both made it. And the first song I 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:03.800 sang was Tennessee Flat Top Box by Johnny Cash. Second 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:07.280 one was San Antonio Stroll by Tenny Tucker. And I 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:10.720 started singing on Friday and Saturday nights, rehearsals on Wednesdays. 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:14.240 How old are you it this time? Eight? Did that 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:18.520 till I was like thirteen or fourteen. It's also sanging 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:21.880 bars and contests and anywhere I could sing, And I 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:25.640 sang full time. And when I was fourteen, I started 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:29.160 singing background vocals for an Elvis impersonator, learning how to 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:31.880 play guitar around fifteen or sixteen, and writing songs. I 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:35.920 started my own bands, and by the time I was twenty, 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:41.560 I came to LA played for you. You were ready. Well, 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:43.600 I don't think I was ready, actually, but I was. 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:46.280 I was one of the steps for sure. Well. The 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:50.240 fact that you did all of the fact that you 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:53.920 played in front of audiences for so long is something 0:15:54.160 --> 0:16:01.040 so few new musicians have. Yes, you know, it's it's 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.280 very few and far between the ec people who've done 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:07.040 years of playing in front of people before we get 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:11.960 to see them, and there's a there's an experience that comes. 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:15.280 There's a level of expertise from that experience that you 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:19.520 can't create any other way. By doing it, you can't 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:24.240 get you can't get years of practice without years no 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.040 And the main thing you can't get is you can't 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:32.320 get over your tet television understanding that just because you're performing, 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:35.600 an audience should listen to you. That's the worst part. 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:37.640 That's the most soul destroying thing for a new artist 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:43.000 that doesn't have busking or bar experience is that they 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:47.080 don't understand that you actually have to earn the other 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:50.120 person's attention and it can be really hard work. And 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:52.480 sometimes they can be assholes, and sometimes they can be drunk, 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:54.680 or they can be walking past you to work, and 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:56.640 you have to figure out what it is that's going 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:59.920 to make them stop, put down the beer for even 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:03.640 twenty seconds, or stop where they're going and take out 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:05.159 a buck and throw it in your guitar case. Like 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:08.199 to any kid, anybody that's just starting out music, I 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:11.320 so strongly recommend busking. If you can't get a gig 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:14.040 in a bar, bust, try to figure out what it 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:16.120 is that you do with your voice, or with your 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:21.080 words or your body that makes someone stop. I would 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:23.880 say that it goes for everything, even beyond music. It's 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:28.480 like the idea that we're just naturally going to be accepted. Yeah, 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:32.959 as great doesn't really happen, like you need to go 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:38.320 out and prove it. Yeah, that's real life. Yeah. So 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:40.840 what were some of the methods you would use to 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:44.880 get people to stop and pay attention. I figured out 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:48.040 early on that for me it was volume and dynamics. 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:51.920 Sometimes if I couldn't get a bar to quiet down, 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:57.399 I would stop playing my guitar and start screaming, or 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:02.720 I would mute my guitar and start whispering. Yeah. Um, 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:06.040 just depended on how they were reacting, you know, and 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:09.280 I would just try and give them what I thought 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:13.000 they needed. And it became it came with trying to 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:16.240 learn to be a musical EmPATH, reading a room, trying 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:19.080 to give the people what they want. And you know, 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:21.800 as I've gotten older, I've started to understand that it's 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:24.560 not a glitzye or a silly thing to be an entertainer. 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:29.560 You know, It's there's artistry in it, absolutely, Yeah, It's 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:32.640 just more of a performance it's a different kind of art, 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:36.040 but it's it's all art. It's all it's all making 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:39.000 something beautiful and sharing it with people. Yeah, we'll be 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:41.840 right back with Rick and Brandy Carlyle. After the break. 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:49.280 We're back with Rick and Brandy Carlyle. Here's Brandy singing 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:51.800 a song from her latest album, By the Way I 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:58.959 Forgive You. This song is called The Mother. It's about 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:05.800 It's about my daughter, Evangeline, and it's about my path 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:10.560 into um motherhood and how twisted and rocky bumpy it was, 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:13.320 and how even long after she was here, I wasn't 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:17.720 sure I made the right decision. Wow. And it's hard 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:20.320 for people to admit that they feel that way. But 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:22.720 I wanted to write a song about it because once 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:25.080 I did admit it, it's like it opened me up 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:27.280 to falling in love with her in my own time. 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:36.120 And it's a complicated thing. Gay domesticities is a complicated 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:37.879 and sort of new thing, and there's not a lot 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:47.679 of pioneering books about it. So I wrote this song beautiful. 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:55.000 Tell me about your songwriting process. Is there any would 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:58.600 you say it follows any typical methods or different every time? 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:02.080 It's really changed as I've gotten older, I write a 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:05.320 lot less songs now. Sometimes it's scary. Sometimes I will 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:07.960 write like one every two years, really, and it feels 0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:10.960 like it's going away, but it never does. And if 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:14.000 I always just trust that it won't go away, then 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:15.760 it comes back. Do you think it's because you're on 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:22.680 the road so much? No, I think it's because I've 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:28.600 I've transformed as an artist to be something other than 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:31.239 a songwriter, than just a songwriter. It's kind of like 0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:34.120 an element of who I think I am now. But 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:36.840 I'm just as happy to sing songs that the twins 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:40.320 have written, particularly because we live together. You know, we 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:43.280 all live together now on the same property, and we're 0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:46.600 married to each other's siblings, and we have babies that 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:48.600 all go to school and meet up every morning at 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:50.760 the same bus stop, and so much has changed in 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:54.720 the last twenty years. But when they write a song 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:56.560 and they and they bring it through to me, and 0:20:57.640 --> 0:20:59.880 it's about our friend taking his own life, or it's 0:20:59.880 --> 0:21:03.800 about you know, one of our dad's in rehab, I 0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:06.359 know what it's about, and it could have been written 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:08.520 by me, And so I still get choked up and 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:09.960 I get a lump in my throat when I'm singing, 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:11.640 and it feels like it came from my soul because 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:14.160 we're waking up and looking out the same windows every day. 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:16.400 So I don't need to be writing a song really 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:19.879 to feel moved by interpreting one. But when I do, 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:25.120 I'm much much more spiritually open about having an influence 0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:30.359 than I was when I was younger, and it's always 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:32.800 comes from a more honest place, which is interesting because 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:38.000 I think because I've never had any commercial success per se, 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:42.440 I'm not chasing it, yes, which is super healthy. Thank 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:50.080 god it really worked out, because had something really exploded 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:53.040 early on and then there was always this sort of 0:21:53.640 --> 0:21:56.280 trying to get back to that place, it would have 0:21:56.400 --> 0:21:59.440 undermined the whole thing. Yeah, you're right, I really feel 0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:03.439 like that. I've observed that now, and I don't want it. 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:06.919 I've never wanted it. It's not really what I'm not 0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:09.600 cut out for that, you know. And You've had a 0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:13.720 great life doing what you do on your own terms. Yeah, 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:15.640 you sing the songs you want to sing, You sing 0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:18.159 them the way you want to sing, exactly. And I 0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:21.119 live with my brothers, and I've got my wife, and 0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:23.320 I've got my babies and I've got all the things 0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:24.840 I want, you know, I've got a four wheeler in 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:27.240 a fishing boat, and I'm fine. I can remember. I 0:22:27.280 --> 0:22:31.160 won't say the name of the artist, but a very 0:22:31.359 --> 0:22:34.720 well known pop star who's a big fani Ors. I 0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:36.240 don't know if you know. I don't know if you 0:22:36.320 --> 0:22:39.720 know her, but she told me she was so blown 0:22:39.760 --> 0:22:44.320 away by you, and she made music that was very 0:22:44.600 --> 0:22:47.320 manufactured pop, and it was like, I was surprised that 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:49.680 she liked you because the music she made was so different. 0:22:49.920 --> 0:22:52.399 And she said, well, if I could do what I want, 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:55.600 I would do what Brandy does. But I can't. I'm 0:22:55.640 --> 0:22:58.240 in this machine and I have to sing this garbage. 0:22:58.680 --> 0:23:03.880 And literally it was like, Wow, that's what I want 0:23:03.920 --> 0:23:06.800 to do. She's doing it. I don't get to do that. 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:11.119 I just get to make these pop records. Yeah, there's 0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:14.440 a time I felt that way about her, whoever she is. Yeah, 0:23:15.040 --> 0:23:16.600 you know, if I could do what I want, I 0:23:16.600 --> 0:23:20.560 would be famous, and I would I would be rich, 0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:22.399 and I wouldn't be so tired, and I wouldn't be 0:23:22.440 --> 0:23:24.440 taking steroids and I wouldn't be living in this van, 0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:29.800 you know. But now I'm just I'm just so glad 0:23:29.880 --> 0:23:32.800 that that that that never happened to me. And it's 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:35.800 no insult because I love a rock star like anybody 0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:38.400 else loves a rock star. God. I mean, I think 0:23:38.400 --> 0:23:40.680 fame is a beautiful thing. It's just not my thing. 0:23:41.440 --> 0:23:46.720 It's also the path that suits us often finds us. 0:23:47.560 --> 0:23:52.640 You know, we may be looking for something else, we 0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:55.760 find the path we belong on and U and it 0:23:55.800 --> 0:23:58.440