1 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: Pushkin, armed with only what she calls poor kid work ethic. 2 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: Brandy Carlisle spent the early part of her life fighting 3 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: her parents, politics, the church, and fighting to be heard 4 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: while singing over belligerent drunks and crowded bars. Brandy's voice 5 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: demands attention, as you might recall hearing in our episode 6 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: with Jack White and Brendan Benson. Her twenty nineteen Grammy 7 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: performance of her song The Joke blew even her most 8 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: critical of peers away. But long before that, she was 9 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 1: already making a name for herself on stages across the 10 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest, where she was raised and now lives with 11 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: her twin bandmates she simply calls the Twins, and since 12 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: then she's released six albums, formed The High Woman with 13 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: Marion Morris and Amanda Shires, and has just generally captured 14 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: the attention of the music world. In her chat with Rick, 15 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: she recounts her tumultuous passed and talked about how she's 16 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: learned to pick her battles over her long career. And 17 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: then there's a night she witnessed a miracle at Joni 18 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: Mitchell's house. This is broken record liner notes for the 19 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: Digital Age I'm justin Richmond. Just a quick note here. 20 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: You can listen to all of the music mentioned in 21 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: this episode on our playlist, which you can find a 22 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: link to in the show notes for licensing reasons, each 23 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,479 Speaker 1: time a song is referenced in this episode, you'll hear 24 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: this sound effect. All right, enjoyed the episode. Here's Rick 25 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: Rubin and Brandy Carlisle from Shangula. I remember the first 26 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: time I saw you, and I don't remember how it 27 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: worked out that you were on the show that I 28 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: saw you at, but I saw you at a place 29 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: called the wilshirt Ebel Theater. Yeah, and you're opening for 30 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: James Taylor. And I was there to see James Taylor, 31 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: and I didn't know you, and I don't even think 32 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: I stayed to watch James Taylor. After I saw you, 33 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: I was so blown away. And I remember you got 34 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: a standing ovation as an as an unknown opening act. Yeah, 35 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: I remember. It was like it was it was ridiculous. 36 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 1: It was really a ridiculous performance. And the people that 37 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: had come to see it, like um from Columbia Records 38 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: and stuff, they told me the next day they said, God, 39 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: you know, there was no way backstage at that show. 40 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 1: But on the stage and there was no intermission between 41 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: me and James, and James came out to play his 42 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: first song and the whole theater saw you walk backstage 43 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: during Fire and Rain and they were like, Rick Ruman's 44 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: going back there. We got to sign this girl. He 45 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: sees something and when he sees something, it it's real, 46 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:58,239 Speaker 1: and you know it was real. It really. I really 47 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: don't think you understand how much of an impact you 48 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 1: made in that sense, you know, happy to be of service, 49 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 1: had no idea, but happy to be of services, sir. 50 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: But you actually saw me way earlier than that. Yeah, yeah, 51 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: do you want to know? Yeah? Please? So, um, I'm 52 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: writing a book and I'm not sure why I'm doing it, 53 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: but there's a whole lot about you in there. Wow. 54 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: Because I got asked to open for a kid, a 55 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: guy called Johnny Lange in Seattle, and a guy called 56 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: Brendan Mendoza was in the audience. Yeah, and I was 57 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: only maybe nineteen thirty nine now, so it's a long 58 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: time ago. Yeah, Brendan Mendoza. So I worked for a 59 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: guy called Rick Rubin. Yeah, he was a young and 60 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: our guy who worked at at American Recordings. Yeah, and 61 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: he flew me to La to play for you at 62 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: a swinghouse, and no recollection of that. Well, I did 63 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: because it was a make or break moment in my life. 64 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: That was, of course. And this is an interesting thing 65 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: I've learned since I gained this notoriety for an artist, 66 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: how a public person can have such an impact on 67 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: another person's life without even really knowing, you know, and 68 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: it's just this one of the inconsequential things. But to me, 69 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: it was an enormous deal because I was being flown 70 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: there to play for you, and I had got really sick, 71 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: like a laryngitis, and I have this terrible paradoxical allergy 72 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 1: to cough medicine that I didn't know about, and I 73 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 1: took a cough medicine and I started having a neurological 74 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: reaction to it. I had involuntary muscle spasms in my 75 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: face and hands, and I'm sitting there trying to play 76 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: my showcase for you, and I can't remember the words, 77 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 1: and my fingers won't press down on the strings to 78 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 1: play the chords, and I have muscle twitches in my jaw, 79 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: and I just felt like my life was ending. And 80 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: you interrupted my showcase and you said, is there something 81 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 1: about you today that's making you not be yourself? And 82 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: I said, yeah, I'm really sick and I think I'm 83 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: having an allergic reaction to this cough medication. And you said, well, 84 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: why don't you go home and get better and then 85 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: come back and do this again. Wow. I was like, yeah, right, yeah, 86 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: fucking right. I know I'm never going to get a 87 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: chance to come back here and play for you again. 88 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: And I went home, no recollection. It's unbelievable. It's a 89 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: great story. I went home thinking I've blown it, and 90 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: you brought me back two weeks later and I was 91 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: better and I was really ready, and I played for 92 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: you at Swing House and it's like, I remember what 93 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: I was wearing, I remember everything. And the very first 94 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: song I played for you was a song called Shadow 95 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: on the Wall. And I had showcased for just about 96 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: every record label and everyone passed yeah, and some people 97 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 1: didn't even wait till I was finished singing a song 98 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: before they leave the room. And I finished that song 99 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: and you put your hand up and you were sitting 100 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: just like that, and you said, that's a really amazing song. 101 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: Will you play it again? And I knew right then 102 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: that I was gonna make it. I knew it. I 103 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: was like, he wants me to play it again? And 104 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: I played it again and ended. You said, why don't 105 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: you just play it one more time? Really again? And 106 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: I played it again, and I played you two more songs, 107 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: and you had me played those songs again. And by 108 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: the time it had ended, I'd played three songs seven 109 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: or eight times. And we had a conversation. You told 110 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: me you'd just seen Damien Rice. Yeah, and Johnny Cash 111 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: was still alive. Yes, And you said that you thought 112 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: we would know each other and worked together down the road, 113 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: and a word spread about that, and you know, it 114 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: was looking like I was going to sign to American 115 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: for a long time. But I remember that, and I 116 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: remember what happened. I remember I was moving from one 117 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: label to another. You were in total chaos at the moment, yeah, 118 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: moving from one label to another. And I remember that 119 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: at the new label, whereas my new distributor was going 120 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 1: to be Warner Brothers. And I said, this is the 121 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: first act that we're going to do. And I remember 122 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: the Warner Brothers people didn't didn't get it and didn't 123 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: like it. And I remember I couldn't believe it. It's 124 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: like she's incredible. She's incredible. No one got it. You 125 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: were the first one Rick to ever get it. You're 126 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: the first one to ever say play that again. And 127 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: so I'll never forget it. And you know that James 128 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: Taylor's show that you were at, it made me look 129 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: so cool. Everybody talked about it for here. Sure that 130 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: the James Taylor was after the Swing House. Yeah, yeah, 131 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: I don't remember the Swing House, but I definitely remember 132 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: the James Taylor because I just couldn't believe what I 133 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: was seeing. Well, your life was much different than my 134 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: life was at the time, wasn't it. You know, No, 135 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: I trust you one. I'm not questioning what you're saying. 136 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: I'm just telling you I don't remember it. Yeah, I 137 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: bet it was. You were so beloved and just popular 138 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: and such an inspiration to me. Yeah, incredible, And you 139 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: brought me back, you gave me a second chance. And 140 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: at the James Taylor show also, Columbia Records was there, 141 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: and that's when I got my deal with Columbia Records 142 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: and made my first album, Amazing. And then I remember 143 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: when I was at Columbia for a little while, we 144 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: worked together on Give Up the Ghost whatever, Yeah, whatever 145 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: album you're working on at the time, and I remember 146 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: it was fun. It was fun. Yeah. Yeah, that's still 147 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: my favorite album actually beautiful, Yeah, beautiful, I love it. It 148 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: It was a big emotional hard time for me in 149 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: my life. I don't like who I was really at 150 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: that time, but um, I liked the album. Yeah, I remember. 151 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: I just remember the power in the vocals was off 152 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: the chart, like yeah, because you had me singing into 153 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: a sm seven right, is that what they're called microphone? Yeah, 154 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: And every other microphone i'd ever sang into, I would distort, 155 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: so the engineer or the producer would ask me to 156 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: sing differently. I end up doing a little mic control. Yeah, 157 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: and it messed with my performance emotionally. So I never 158 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 1: sounded on an album like I did Live and Tell 159 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 1: that album because we use the same mike you would 160 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 1: use live, because you sounded good live, Yeah, And you 161 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: just seems like it would be obvious now it seems 162 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 1: like it would be obvious, but apparently it's only obvious 163 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 1: to you. So since then, how many albums have you 164 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: made seven seven as an artist? Yes, and the last 165 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: one was maybe You're most well received of the bat, 166 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 1: which is unusual in today's world because normally first couple 167 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: of albums tend to do really good and then people 168 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: fade away and you've only kind of continued to build 169 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: over the seven albums. Yeah, yeah, because of that. But 170 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: some of it has to do with just sort of 171 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: like a cultural undertone, like where we are in the 172 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: world right now and the perspective that the album was 173 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: written from. I think it gave people comfort in a 174 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: way that it resonated sort of beyond I think me 175 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: as an artist and more into the sort of culturals 176 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: that gust of like, I wonder if that's true. I 177 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: think you're selling yourself short, do you think? I don't know. 178 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: I think it belongs to the moment, but maybe maybe yes, 179 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: it belongs to the moment, and yes, the moment plays 180 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:27,839 Speaker 1: a role. But the reason people like it is because 181 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: you're great. And that's the real reason. Thank you. I 182 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: will receive that. I think, weren't it great? And it 183 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: was right in the moment, it wouldn't matter at all 184 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: and nobody would notice. It's because it's great, So thank you. 185 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: Tell me about your situation growing up well, Seattle, Seattle, 186 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: just outside of Seattle. I started out living in the 187 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:01,079 Speaker 1: airport town outside of Seattle seatach Burian area. We moved 188 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: out to a single white trailer in the middle of 189 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:07,559 Speaker 1: the country when I started fifth grade, and up until 190 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: that point we were only allowed to listen to like 191 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:14,079 Speaker 1: classic country and western music. It's what my mother sang 192 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: and her father and big country music family. Where were 193 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: they from Oklahoma and the well they went up north, 194 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,839 Speaker 1: so Oklahoma. Both sides of the family were actually from Oklahoma, 195 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,199 Speaker 1: and some of them just migrated around, you know, the country. 196 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 1: My great grandparents lived in an RV. They just toured 197 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: around following bluegrass festivals, the really small ones, you know. 198 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: So it was always a musical family. Yeah, yeah, a 199 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: musical family without us really even knowing where a musical family, 200 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: we thought all families or musical families. So everybody played, 201 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: everybody played something or supported it in some way. And 202 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: then my mother side of the family went from there 203 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: to up north between Fargo and Minneapolis, plays called Wobin 204 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,839 Speaker 1: northern Minnesota. They started the whole it's not Southern, it's 205 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: Western thing about country music and moved west and so 206 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: country music was our family's thing, and I got out 207 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: to the country for the first time and started to 208 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: feel weird, started to feel weird and gay, and I 209 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: picked up a fifth grade book report on a kid 210 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: called Ryan White who died of AIDS in nineteen ninety one. 211 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: He was a hemophiliac and when he was diagnosed with HIV, 212 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: the church tried to politicize him and get him to 213 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: speak out against gay men and imply that it was 214 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: disease it was created by by gay men. And in 215 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: the book he was befriended by a guy called Elton John. 216 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: And I saw this book report as a departure from 217 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 1: my family in a weird way their politics. Something was 218 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: starting to become clear about my sexuality because I was 219 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: eleven and this guy, Elton John, seemed really special to me. 220 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: So I went to the King County Library and I 221 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: checked out two CDs, Tumbleweed Connection and the one here 222 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: and There that had Skyline Pigeon on it because he's 223 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: sang it at this kid's funeral. And I loved that 224 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: boy and wrote this big book report on him. And 225 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: I checked out a biography by Philip Norman, and I 226 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: got into David Bowie via Elton John, and also Queen 227 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: became fascinated with Freddie Mercury George Michael, You Two and 228 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: the Beatles all in this on this biography that I 229 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: had read, and I started dressing different, talking different, arguing 230 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 1: politics with my dad, and started liking a different kind 231 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: of music and started standing out and becoming an artist. 232 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: And it was hard. It was hard on my parents spiritually, 233 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: politically was hard because we were poor and I was 234 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: already weird enough at school. But that's when I started 235 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: to take a turn away from just playing the spoons 236 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 1: and singing at family jams to really wanting to be 237 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: an artist. And then when did you start singing? What 238 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: was your first professional experience singing? We had these auditions 239 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: at this place called the Northwest Grand Ole Opry, where 240 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: my mom's dad was the kind of patriarch family yodeling, 241 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: very glamorous, amazing man. He'd died really young, of Luke 242 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: Garret's as he's actually he was only fifty, and with 243 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: the money he left, which was not much, it was 244 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: just enough for my mom to buy a little PA system, 245 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: and she decided to start doing music for real because 246 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: he was gone and she wanted to do something to 247 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: heel herself, and she started doing auditions and she took 248 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: me with her to an audition at a place called 249 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: the Northwest grand Ole Opry and I got to audition too, 250 00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: and we both made it. And the first song I 251 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: sang was Tennessee Flat Top Box by Johnny Cash. Second 252 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: one was San Antonio Stroll by Tenny Tucker. And I 253 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: started singing on Friday and Saturday nights, rehearsals on Wednesdays. 254 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: How old are you it this time? Eight? Did that 255 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: till I was like thirteen or fourteen. It's also sanging 256 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: bars and contests and anywhere I could sing, And I 257 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: sang full time. And when I was fourteen, I started 258 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: singing background vocals for an Elvis impersonator, learning how to 259 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: play guitar around fifteen or sixteen, and writing songs. I 260 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: started my own bands, and by the time I was twenty, 261 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: I came to LA played for you. You were ready. Well, 262 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: I don't think I was ready, actually, but I was. 263 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: I was one of the steps for sure. Well. The 264 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: fact that you did all of the fact that you 265 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: played in front of audiences for so long is something 266 00:15:54,160 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: so few new musicians have. Yes, you know, it's it's 267 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: very few and far between the ec people who've done 268 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: years of playing in front of people before we get 269 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: to see them, and there's a there's an experience that comes. 270 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: There's a level of expertise from that experience that you 271 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: can't create any other way. By doing it, you can't 272 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: get you can't get years of practice without years no 273 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: And the main thing you can't get is you can't 274 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: get over your tet television understanding that just because you're performing, 275 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: an audience should listen to you. That's the worst part. 276 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: That's the most soul destroying thing for a new artist 277 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: that doesn't have busking or bar experience is that they 278 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: don't understand that you actually have to earn the other 279 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: person's attention and it can be really hard work. And 280 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: sometimes they can be assholes, and sometimes they can be drunk, 281 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: or they can be walking past you to work, and 282 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: you have to figure out what it is that's going 283 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: to make them stop, put down the beer for even 284 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: twenty seconds, or stop where they're going and take out 285 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 1: a buck and throw it in your guitar case. Like 286 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 1: to any kid, anybody that's just starting out music, I 287 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: so strongly recommend busking. If you can't get a gig 288 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 1: in a bar, bust, try to figure out what it 289 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,120 Speaker 1: is that you do with your voice, or with your 290 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: words or your body that makes someone stop. I would 291 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 1: say that it goes for everything, even beyond music. It's 292 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: like the idea that we're just naturally going to be accepted. Yeah, 293 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:32,959 Speaker 1: as great doesn't really happen, like you need to go 294 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: out and prove it. Yeah, that's real life. Yeah. So 295 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: what were some of the methods you would use to 296 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 1: get people to stop and pay attention. I figured out 297 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: early on that for me it was volume and dynamics. 298 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 1: Sometimes if I couldn't get a bar to quiet down, 299 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 1: I would stop playing my guitar and start screaming, or 300 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: I would mute my guitar and start whispering. Yeah. Um, 301 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: just depended on how they were reacting, you know, and 302 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: I would just try and give them what I thought 303 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: they needed. And it became it came with trying to 304 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: learn to be a musical EmPATH, reading a room, trying 305 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: to give the people what they want. And you know, 306 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: as I've gotten older, I've started to understand that it's 307 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: not a glitzye or a silly thing to be an entertainer. 308 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: You know, It's there's artistry in it, absolutely, Yeah, It's 309 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 1: just more of a performance it's a different kind of art, 310 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: but it's it's all art. It's all it's all making 311 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: something beautiful and sharing it with people. Yeah, we'll be 312 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: right back with Rick and Brandy Carlyle. After the break. 313 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: We're back with Rick and Brandy Carlyle. Here's Brandy singing 314 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: a song from her latest album, By the Way I 315 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:58,959 Speaker 1: Forgive You. This song is called The Mother. It's about 316 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: It's about my daughter, Evangeline, and it's about my path 317 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: into um motherhood and how twisted and rocky bumpy it was, 318 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: and how even long after she was here, I wasn't 319 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: sure I made the right decision. Wow. And it's hard 320 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: for people to admit that they feel that way. But 321 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: I wanted to write a song about it because once 322 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: I did admit it, it's like it opened me up 323 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: to falling in love with her in my own time. 324 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:36,120 Speaker 1: And it's a complicated thing. Gay domesticities is a complicated 325 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 1: and sort of new thing, and there's not a lot 326 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:47,679 Speaker 1: of pioneering books about it. So I wrote this song beautiful. 327 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: Tell me about your songwriting process. Is there any would 328 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: you say it follows any typical methods or different every time? 329 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: It's really changed as I've gotten older, I write a 330 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: lot less songs now. Sometimes it's scary. Sometimes I will 331 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 1: write like one every two years, really, and it feels 332 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: like it's going away, but it never does. And if 333 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: I always just trust that it won't go away, then 334 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 1: it comes back. Do you think it's because you're on 335 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 1: the road so much? No, I think it's because I've 336 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: I've transformed as an artist to be something other than 337 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,239 Speaker 1: a songwriter, than just a songwriter. It's kind of like 338 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,120 Speaker 1: an element of who I think I am now. But 339 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: I'm just as happy to sing songs that the twins 340 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: have written, particularly because we live together. You know, we 341 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: all live together now on the same property, and we're 342 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: married to each other's siblings, and we have babies that 343 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: all go to school and meet up every morning at 344 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: the same bus stop, and so much has changed in 345 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: the last twenty years. But when they write a song 346 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: and they and they bring it through to me, and 347 00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 1: it's about our friend taking his own life, or it's 348 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: about you know, one of our dad's in rehab, I 349 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: know what it's about, and it could have been written 350 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: by me, And so I still get choked up and 351 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 1: I get a lump in my throat when I'm singing, 352 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,640 Speaker 1: and it feels like it came from my soul because 353 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 1: we're waking up and looking out the same windows every day. 354 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,400 Speaker 1: So I don't need to be writing a song really 355 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 1: to feel moved by interpreting one. But when I do, 356 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:25,120 Speaker 1: I'm much much more spiritually open about having an influence 357 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 1: than I was when I was younger, and it's always 358 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: comes from a more honest place, which is interesting because 359 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: I think because I've never had any commercial success per se, 360 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: I'm not chasing it, yes, which is super healthy. Thank 361 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: god it really worked out, because had something really exploded 362 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 1: early on and then there was always this sort of 363 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: trying to get back to that place, it would have 364 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: undermined the whole thing. Yeah, you're right, I really feel 365 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 1: like that. I've observed that now, and I don't want it. 366 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 1: I've never wanted it. It's not really what I'm not 367 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: cut out for that, you know. And You've had a 368 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: great life doing what you do on your own terms. Yeah, 369 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:15,640 Speaker 1: you sing the songs you want to sing, You sing 370 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 1: them the way you want to sing, exactly. And I 371 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: live with my brothers, and I've got my wife, and 372 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: I've got my babies and I've got all the things 373 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: I want, you know, I've got a four wheeler in 374 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: a fishing boat, and I'm fine. I can remember. I 375 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 1: won't say the name of the artist, but a very 376 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: well known pop star who's a big fani Ors. I 377 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 1: don't know if you know. I don't know if you 378 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: know her, but she told me she was so blown 379 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: away by you, and she made music that was very 380 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: manufactured pop, and it was like, I was surprised that 381 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 1: she liked you because the music she made was so different. 382 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: And she said, well, if I could do what I want, 383 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: I would do what Brandy does. But I can't. I'm 384 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: in this machine and I have to sing this garbage. 385 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:03,880 Speaker 1: And literally it was like, Wow, that's what I want 386 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: to do. She's doing it. I don't get to do that. 387 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: I just get to make these pop records. Yeah, there's 388 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 1: a time I felt that way about her, whoever she is. Yeah, 389 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: you know, if I could do what I want, I 390 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: would be famous, and I would I would be rich, 391 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: and I wouldn't be so tired, and I wouldn't be 392 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 1: taking steroids and I wouldn't be living in this van, 393 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: you know. But now I'm just I'm just so glad 394 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: that that that that never happened to me. And it's 395 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: no insult because I love a rock star like anybody 396 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 1: else loves a rock star. God. I mean, I think 397 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 1: fame is a beautiful thing. It's just not my thing. 398 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: It's also the path that suits us often finds us. 399 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:52,640 Speaker 1: You know, we may be looking for something else, we 400 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: find the path we belong on and U and it 401 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 1: feels good, like, you know, like to some degree, it's 402 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: like we're we're characters in this movie and we have 403 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:05,439 Speaker 1: ideas of what we want the next scene to be, 404 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: but we don't get to control that. And do you 405 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 1: think sometimes when we think we're manifesting it, that maybe 406 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: we're just innately knowing it's ahead of us. It could be, 407 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 1: it would be I don't know, it could be it 408 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: could be one way. And whether whether it's us manifesting 409 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: it or whether it's a premonition of what's to come 410 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 1: doesn't matter. Yeah, you know, either way, it's cool to 411 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 1: have that feeling of like, oh, I feel like this 412 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,199 Speaker 1: is going to happen. A minute it happens. It makes 413 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 1: the experience of living more fun, like like you get 414 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 1: to feel like, why, wow, I'm really in this I'm 415 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:42,880 Speaker 1: in this life, yeah, and I'm open to it. Yeah. 416 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: So the twists and turns. You know, it's hard sometimes 417 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: when the thing that comes up is something that is 418 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 1: really painful. That's the first thing I thought when I 419 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: said that too. Yeah, Yeah, it's hard when the thing 420 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: that comes up is really painful to to know. Wow, 421 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: like watching it in the movie and Wow, our hero 422 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,120 Speaker 1: just got into trouble and that's you know, I wonder 423 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: how he's going to get out of this, do you 424 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like like to be able to 425 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: remove ourselves from the emotion in it and be trusting 426 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: that the universe is on our side. Yeah. I mean 427 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,199 Speaker 1: the big thing for me is I just made the 428 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 1: decision in my um very like right around the time 429 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: I turned thirty, in my early thirties, to stop being 430 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 1: in fights, you know, not to stop standing up for myself, yeah, 431 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 1: but to stop being in fights is actually much more proactive. 432 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: I don't want to say aggressive, because it's not aggressive, 433 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: but it's it's much stronger to stop being in fights. 434 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 1: Were what were some of the things that you might 435 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: have fought over in the past, Oh, God, you name it. Man. 436 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: I've been fighting since I was a little kid, just 437 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: fighting in the schoolyard, fighting people, fighting in relationships, fighting God, 438 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:04,200 Speaker 1: fighting the church, fighting over politics, fighting over music, fighting producers. 439 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: You know, every record I made ended in me falling 440 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: out with the producer all every time. And what do 441 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,119 Speaker 1: you think the what do you think was underneath it? 442 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 1: Poor kid work, ethic, a damage and chaos and also passion, 443 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,959 Speaker 1: you know, and like also a little bit of it 444 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: is being gay and kind of growing up in the 445 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: church and like having to fight for your actual eternity, 446 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,120 Speaker 1: you know, and just the dignity of showing up every 447 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,200 Speaker 1: day and being who you are when no one wants 448 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,360 Speaker 1: you to. And you take that into places that are inappropriate, 449 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:50,239 Speaker 1: but it was appropriate in those scenarios, you know. And 450 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: it just took falling in love and Saturn return to 451 00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: kind of making rise above myself little bit and see 452 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: it beautiful. So tell me how was the last album 453 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: that he made different than the ones that came before it? 454 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,679 Speaker 1: I mean I was different. We made this album with 455 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: Dave Cobb and Shooter Jennings, and Shooter Jennings is like 456 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,879 Speaker 1: a spirit animal person that is like in my life 457 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 1: to just remind me not to judge people remind me 458 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: not to be uptight. And Dave Cobb was a person 459 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: that scared me, and I felt like his his talent 460 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: was intimidating, and his audacity was intimidating, and his guileless 461 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 1: authority was intimidating. And I had only made two made 462 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: two self produced records, and I wasn't really planning on 463 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: going into the studio with a with an influential producer. 464 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,640 Speaker 1: And I was trying to put together an album for 465 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: war Child to benefit refugee kids, kids mostly from Syria 466 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: and camps and I back in Jordan and I called 467 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: I got Dolly Parton to do my song the story incredible. 468 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: It was so cool, man. But she wanted us to 469 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,679 Speaker 1: record a track, and I had no idea really what 470 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: to do, and I had to kind of admit my limitations. 471 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 1: And I thought about Dave Cobb because I was getting 472 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: ready to drive through Nashville, and I just knew that 473 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 1: he had a handle on it. And so I called 474 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: him up and I was like, do you have time 475 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: to do this? And he's like, no, I have absolutely 476 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 1: zero time, but I will do this in the middle 477 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: of the night for you. Because my wife is a 478 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: refugee and so we pulled our bus into our c 479 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 1: studios in the middle of the night and he played 480 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: Wichita Lineman in the Ghetto, and then we recorded the 481 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: story for Dolly Parton. I left there totally mind blown, 482 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: thinking I never wanted to work with Dave Cobb, but 483 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: that I was really impressed and shoot, her and I 484 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: were going to work together. And we got to talking 485 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: about it and he said, I think you should give 486 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: Dave a second thought. He's my brother and he loves you, 487 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: and we should really think about this. So I was like, 488 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: ready for a radical change in my life. The twins 489 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: are ready for radical change in their lives. And we 490 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: went in and everything was set up. We didn't get 491 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: sounds or anything. We got lunch, sat in the corner. 492 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: We listened to some records and he said, so, what 493 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: do you want to play and we're like, well, we'll 494 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: play you this song, you know, and we just played 495 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: it for him, but he recorded and he's like, well 496 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: we got our first track, and I was like, wow, 497 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: this is this is different? You know, how does it 498 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 1: even sound? I got sounds where you got here, don't 499 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: worry about it. And the whole record was that way 500 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: done in two weeks, bursting into tears the whole time, 501 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 1: emotional breakdowns, dig and deep mining of the soul new 502 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: way that we had never done it before, and I knew, 503 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: I knew it was different. What's interesting about that is 504 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: it sounds like by him taking care of the production 505 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: and everything else, you got to really dive into being 506 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 1: the artist and not having to wear multiple hats and 507 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: completely be in the music. Now you're right, Yeah, now 508 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 1: I want to do it again. Yeah, it makes sense, 509 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: I understand. Yeah, there's there's also a psyche what we 510 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: talked about earlier, the idea that sometimes it's helpful to 511 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: have someone outside who really likes you. You know, it's 512 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 1: really helpful. Yeah that was big. That was really big. 513 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: And he just made me feel like he really liked 514 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: my voice. Yeah, you know, I have been in the 515 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: studio with a lot of people that didn't like my voice. Yeah. 516 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: And of course there's affectation, and of course there's lots 517 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: of reasons for that, but I just think that, like 518 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: that's part of making music that isn't manufactured. Is that 519 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: part of like growing as an artist, I think is 520 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: developing and shedding affectation. Yes, you can't strip a young 521 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: person at the affectation. They have to decide to shed 522 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 1: the affectation and got it could take a long time. Yeah, 523 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: you know, it took me a long time. It happens naturally, 524 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: and it only it happens when it wants to happen. 525 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: It's not anything can be forced. If you pull off 526 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: the affectation. Before it comes off, we don't really know 527 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: what's underneath. That's so true. I've never heard it said 528 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: that way before, but that's exactly why you can't do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 529 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: it comes from the person not knowing who they are yet. 530 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: So this is the the crutch or the training wheels 531 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: till I get to be who I am. I'm gonna 532 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 1: I'm going to go through this vehicle. Yeah. The last 533 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 1: time I saw you play was with the Avid Brothers 534 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 1: at Madison Square Garden, right, which was incredible. It was 535 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: an incredible night both seeing both seeing you and them. 536 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: There was a place where I used to see, you know, 537 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 1: big concerts when I was a little kid. Was a 538 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: real thrill for me. Man. I love those boys. Aren't 539 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: they great? I Mean it's more than that. I just 540 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 1: feel like we just the world just needs them in 541 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: a big, big way. And I need them. And yeah, 542 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,719 Speaker 1: did you know Scott painted me for the cover of 543 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 1: my album by the way, if you give you I 544 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: did not, but that makes now that you say it, Yeah, 545 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: it makes sense. Yeah he did. And this is how 546 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: gay I am. I have such a crush on Scott. 547 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 1: I think Scott is one of the most beautiful people 548 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 1: I've ever met. And I went to his house by 549 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: myself in North Carolina to set for him and be painted. 550 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: And I had to rent my very first card I 551 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: never rented a car all of myself. And I went 552 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: out there and I spent the entire day with Scott 553 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 1: inside of a box that he created out of a 554 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: sheet and some cardboard, and the little light coming in 555 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: at the top, and he was like this close to 556 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: my face all day, and I was thinking, I feel 557 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: nothing around this gorgeous specimen, a specimen of a man. 558 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 1: Like this is how gay I actually, because he's so handsome, 559 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: and I was so nervous to be like he's of 560 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 1: course married father, I'm married and a mother, but I 561 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: just love him. But he's one of those people where 562 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 1: he is as beautiful of a person as he is 563 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 1: to look at, like he's just more more beautiful because 564 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: of exactly that. Yeah, it's we see him beautiful because 565 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: it's his soul shining through. You're exactly right. Yeah, and 566 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: Seth is the same way. Amazing, amazing fellas and their 567 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: parents and their wives and their kids. It's all the 568 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: same thing. There's a big love light shining out in 569 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 1: North Carolina because of them. Yeah. I always feel like 570 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: any chance I get to be around them improves my life. Yeah, 571 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:58,239 Speaker 1: absolutely absolutely. A friend of mine made the documentary May 572 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: at Last, Jed Appatow. Yeah, a lot of it here, 573 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: a lot of it here. And he's a he works 574 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 1: in comedy, and most of the people that we know 575 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,360 Speaker 1: in the comedy world tend to be dysfunctional. It's the 576 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 1: nature of the reason you find yourself in comedy comes 577 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 1: out of dysfunction. And I was laughing with Judge because 578 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:20,479 Speaker 1: he was saying what a great experience it was making 579 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 1: this and how great it was to be around those people, 580 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: And I said, you know, most of the people we 581 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,359 Speaker 1: know are insane. This is what like, we don't know 582 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: any like nice people. They are the only nice people 583 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:36,400 Speaker 1: I know. That's what it feels here. It's like there, 584 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 1: you can't believe that anyone is like this, Yeah, but 585 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 1: they are. It's real. Yeah. And you keep thinking you're 586 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 1: waiting for the road to get pulled. You're like, when 587 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: I turn my back, you're gonna do something weird. But 588 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:51,239 Speaker 1: they don't know. No, it's an incredible family. I don't 589 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,359 Speaker 1: know how it happened. I remember I asked their dad 590 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 1: when I met their dad the first time, I said, 591 00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,200 Speaker 1: how did what did you do for these people to 592 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 1: exist like this in the world? And he said, I 593 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 1: back him. I back him no matter what. I back him. 594 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 1: If somebody came and told me that one of the 595 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,319 Speaker 1: boys killed somebody, I would say, I guess somebody needed 596 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:22,440 Speaker 1: some killing. That is profound. Yeah, that's some parenting advice 597 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 1: right there. Unconditional love. Wow. We'll be right back with 598 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:35,799 Speaker 1: the rest of Rick's interview with Brandy Carlisle. We're back 599 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 1: with Brandy Carlisle. The night before this interview, Brandy performed 600 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,880 Speaker 1: Joni Mitchell's classic album Blue and Its Entirety at LA's 601 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 1: Disney Concert Hall. She talked to Rick about how she 602 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,800 Speaker 1: first discovered Joni Mitchell's music. I was really late to 603 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 1: the game on Joni Mitchell, and there's a whole thing 604 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 1: about it that I won't go into. But when I did, 605 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 1: like Deep Dive, I made up for lost time in 606 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,360 Speaker 1: a really big way. And I became upset with the 607 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: album Blue. I learned the entire thing. It was like 608 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,320 Speaker 1: my life. And then I got into Court and Spark. 609 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: So eight and a half, almost nine years ago, skipped 610 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 1: over for the Roses, went straight to Courton Spark, and 611 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 1: then went back to Song for Siegel, all the way 612 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 1: into Ladies of the Canyon, Blue for the Roses, Courton Spark, 613 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: Kissing of Summer Line, says Gyri, which is now my 614 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,880 Speaker 1: favorite Joni Mitchell album, all the way up to Shine. 615 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 1: So her seventy fifth birthday party, which is almost a 616 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: year ago to the day, they asked a lot of 617 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: really cool people to come and tribute her by singing songs. 618 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,720 Speaker 1: And I wanted to do it so bad. I begged 619 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 1: and begged and begged, and they wouldn't let me do it, 620 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 1: and they told me no, and it was full, and 621 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,440 Speaker 1: I just kept writing letters, and I kept digging to 622 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 1: find out other people that were connected to it, and 623 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,879 Speaker 1: then writing them letters. And you know, Mom and Dad 624 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 1: said no. So I was asking all the aunties and 625 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:59,319 Speaker 1: uncles and basically because Chris Christofferson got asked to do 626 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 1: a case of you. And I've been helping Chris a 627 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,880 Speaker 1: little bit on stage with his memory and his ability 628 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: to kind of deliver a live performance that's not his own, 629 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 1: like his own lyrics. He can do it with a teleprompter, 630 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:15,359 Speaker 1: but outside of that he struggles with simple things like 631 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:17,879 Speaker 1: microphone placement, plugging in his guitar and stuff. So I've 632 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: been kind of, like his wife says, like she can 633 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,239 Speaker 1: help him to the edge of the stage, but after that, 634 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 1: you know. So I stepped in a bunch of times 635 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: to be with Chris because he's still so special. And 636 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 1: so he got asked to do a case of you, 637 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: so I was able to help him do that, and 638 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,400 Speaker 1: then they gave me down to you from Court and Spark. 639 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:40,320 Speaker 1: So I did it and I found it really transformative. 640 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 1: And I brought this picture to have signed by Jonie 641 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 1: and it was my wife, Katherine's, like her one job 642 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 1: to get it signed, and she didn't do it. She 643 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,479 Speaker 1: was a PA for Paul McCartney for like ten years, 644 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 1: so she's good at reading a room. You know. She 645 00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:00,359 Speaker 1: just knew it wasn't appropriate. But I was so moved 646 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 1: by the night. I said, I'm going to cover the 647 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 1: entire Joni Mitchell Blue album at Disney Hall in La 648 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,839 Speaker 1: a year from now. And she said all right, and 649 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 1: she called Jonie's assistant and she said, we'll kind of 650 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 1: get this picture signed for Brandy for Christmas is a surprise. 651 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,719 Speaker 1: And they said, yeah, I'm bringing by the house and 652 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, come on up and we'll get 653 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 1: we'll get it signed. And so Katherine went by the house, 654 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 1: but Joonie invited her in and wound up sitting at 655 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,120 Speaker 1: the table with her and having a long talk about 656 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 1: nature in Canada and they had they kind of had 657 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:40,720 Speaker 1: a friendship thing, and Jonie said, well, you know, anytime 658 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 1: you're you and your wife want to get together and 659 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,400 Speaker 1: grab it bye to eat, you know we can't. And 660 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,560 Speaker 1: after the Grammys, Jonie reached out and she took me 661 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:53,720 Speaker 1: outs dinner and Katherine and we had this amazing dinner. 662 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: She ordered all of our food for us. It was 663 00:38:56,040 --> 00:39:00,120 Speaker 1: like really special and she said at the end of that, 664 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: she didn't say much, but at the end of it 665 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,360 Speaker 1: she said, you know, I don't do music anymore. And 666 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,239 Speaker 1: before you start feeling sorry for me and getting weird 667 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 1: about it. I'm a painter. I'm not sad, but it 668 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 1: does bother me that I have these instruments setting around 669 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: that are so beautiful and no one plays them. So 670 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 1: if you want to get a few young people together, 671 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:19,879 Speaker 1: some people together, you want to come over my house 672 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 1: and play some music one night, let's do a jam. 673 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:28,600 Speaker 1: And I was like, all right, so we did. The 674 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:33,280 Speaker 1: very first night, me and Hosier went over to Joonie's 675 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,560 Speaker 1: house and we had dinner. It was like Mexican food, 676 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 1: sat outside and Joanie, like annadvertently tells the stories of 677 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: her songs without telling us. She's telling the stories of 678 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,760 Speaker 1: her songs. So if you know Jony, you know the story. 679 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 1: And it's really amazing. You know, She's talk about some 680 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 1: turbulent flight she was sawing, and I was like, man, 681 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,879 Speaker 1: turn this bird around, and you know, like what she's 682 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,839 Speaker 1: talking about. If you know Blue, you know. So that 683 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,440 Speaker 1: was fascinating part of the night. And then we kind 684 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,880 Speaker 1: of migrated into the living room around some instruments and 685 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:08,319 Speaker 1: I played a song. I played a song of mine 686 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 1: called Cannonball, and then Andrew Hosier played a song and 687 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,840 Speaker 1: we're in the middle of these songs and like apropos 688 00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:21,799 Speaker 1: of nothing. Shaka Khan walks in, and Joanie always has 689 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,640 Speaker 1: a plan, that's the thing about her. She wanted to, 690 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:27,920 Speaker 1: you know, surprise us and throw us for a loop 691 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,520 Speaker 1: and show us how it was done. So she invited 692 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,400 Speaker 1: some people we didn't know about. So Shaka Khan walks in. 693 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,120 Speaker 1: She starts throwing a fourth part at harmony on top 694 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:38,959 Speaker 1: of the Crosbie stills a Nash song I was singing, 695 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:43,239 Speaker 1: and middle of that one, Herbie Hancock walks in and 696 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 1: he sits down at a piano and we are just hyperventilating, 697 00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:51,120 Speaker 1: Me and Andrew beside ourselves, and the twins and my 698 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,239 Speaker 1: wife and Joni's got this big, knowing, mischievous grin on 699 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 1: her face. And Herbie starts hovering on a chord, you know, 700 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 1: and he's like, what are the kids? And do you 701 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,239 Speaker 1: know how are we gonna how are we gonna do 702 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,759 Speaker 1: this jam? We don't know what he's doing. It's just 703 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,360 Speaker 1: really diminished and there's all these things happening, and he's playing, 704 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:10,759 Speaker 1: and everybody gets real quiet because we didn't know what 705 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 1: was going to happen. And out of the middle of 706 00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 1: the room we hear summertime and the living is easy. 707 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,280 Speaker 1: And it's Joni who's just opened her mouth and saying 708 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:27,319 Speaker 1: for the first time since her aneurysm seven years ago. 709 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 1: Herbie burst into tears. Everybody burst into tears, and Joni 710 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 1: sat there grinning that mischievous grin, and Shaka goes, the 711 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:38,719 Speaker 1: fish are jumping in the cotton is high, and Joy goes, 712 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:44,279 Speaker 1: the fish are jumping and the cotton is high. And 713 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,960 Speaker 1: the next thing you know, Jonny's singing again. And she 714 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:51,759 Speaker 1: sang for an hour and didn't stop. And so we've 715 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:55,240 Speaker 1: been going over there and jamming and Joni's been singing, 716 00:41:55,840 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 1: and that's that's how it goes. So beautiful. You growing up, 717 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:04,360 Speaker 1: you didn't listen to Joni. What was the what happened 718 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,760 Speaker 1: that got you into it? Well, Tibo and Burnette played 719 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:14,400 Speaker 1: Blue for me when I was making the story, so 720 00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,160 Speaker 1: that would have been two thousand and five, two thousand 721 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 1: and six, and her voice was so high and she 722 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:23,960 Speaker 1: got to the line that said, um, I want to 723 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,600 Speaker 1: renew you, I want to shampoo you, and I hated it. 724 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:30,480 Speaker 1: It was so heterosexual and submissive. It just bothered me. 725 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,760 Speaker 1: It was like, oh, this is this is not tough, 726 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,680 Speaker 1: this is some other thing. This is feminine, and and 727 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,320 Speaker 1: I wrote it off. And then all these years later, 728 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 1: I met my wife and we we were holed up 729 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,080 Speaker 1: in a cabin together in northern Michigan and listening to music, 730 00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:52,960 Speaker 1: and she brought Damien Rice and she brought Blue and 731 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:54,799 Speaker 1: she put on Blue and I laughed and I said, 732 00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:56,440 Speaker 1: you always, I don't even really like Jony Mix. She 733 00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:00,440 Speaker 1: actually and she got like deadly silent, and she was like, 734 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:05,839 Speaker 1: I don't actually know you like I thought I did. 735 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,319 Speaker 1: If you can't get your head around Joni Mitchell. And 736 00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,320 Speaker 1: I was like, well, it's just that I like tough 737 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:14,640 Speaker 1: singers and she's just not tough, and I hate the lyric. 738 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:16,279 Speaker 1: I want to renew you, I want to shampoo you. 739 00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:19,560 Speaker 1: And she goes, really, she's not tough, like because she 740 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,759 Speaker 1: sounds like a feminine woman. And I was like, well, 741 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:24,360 Speaker 1: it's a lot more than that, and she goes, do 742 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,160 Speaker 1: you know what little Green is about? And I said no, 743 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,200 Speaker 1: and she told me and she put on little Green 744 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,440 Speaker 1: and I broke down. I just completely broke down. And 745 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:36,560 Speaker 1: it changed not just the way I looked at Joni Mitchell, 746 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:41,160 Speaker 1: but the way I looked at women and femininity and 747 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:47,120 Speaker 1: toughness and how intertwined they really are. And so it 748 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,840 Speaker 1: put me in touch with my femininity in a new way. 749 00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,120 Speaker 1: And so when I dove into Jonie, I did a 750 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:56,160 Speaker 1: deep dive because I realized that I wasn't just fundamentally 751 00:43:56,200 --> 00:44:00,120 Speaker 1: wrong about Joni Mitchell. I was fundamentally wrong about what 752 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:05,960 Speaker 1: I thought it meant to be. Tough, beautiful story. It's 753 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:15,080 Speaker 1: amazing how small revelations can change our perception in great 754 00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:20,160 Speaker 1: ways that you wouldn't expect. You wouldn't expect you not 755 00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:25,279 Speaker 1: liking a lyric in a song to frame the way 756 00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:30,240 Speaker 1: you see the world, and just through that one breaking 757 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:34,200 Speaker 1: through that one change opened up you open up yourself 758 00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:36,799 Speaker 1: to a whole different way of seeing the world in 759 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:40,080 Speaker 1: myself and it really did amazing. Yeah, I'll never be 760 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:44,799 Speaker 1: the same writer after that either. Beautiful cool. Thanks for 761 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:50,400 Speaker 1: coming all right, Coop. Thank you to Brandy Carlyle for 762 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,880 Speaker 1: stopping buy Shanghala I'm playing for Rick. Her latest album 763 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,000 Speaker 1: with the Grammy Award winning By the Way I Forgive 764 00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,000 Speaker 1: You is out now. You should to check it out 765 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,480 Speaker 1: along with the rest of our favorite Brandy songs at 766 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:05,279 Speaker 1: broken record podcast dot com. Broken Record is produced with 767 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:09,719 Speaker 1: help from Jason Gambrell, Mi La Belle, Leah Rose, Matt Laboza, 768 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:13,839 Speaker 1: and Martin Gonzalez for Pushkin Industries. Our theme musics by 769 00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,440 Speaker 1: Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond. Thanks for listening.