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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of Selective Ignorance. However,

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Speaker 1: before we get to this week's episode, I want to

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Speaker 1: remind you guys to purchase my book No Holds Barred,

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Speaker 1: a dual manifesto of sexual exploration and power. So feel

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Speaker 1: free to go to your local bookstores preferably queer owned,

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Speaker 1: black owned, or woman owned to support them, but also

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Speaker 1: just click the button on Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, or

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Speaker 1: wherever you read your books.

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Speaker 2: Again.

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Speaker 1: That is No Holds Barred, a dual manifesto of sexual

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Speaker 1: exploration and power, written by yours truly and my co

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Speaker 1: host of the Decisions Decisions podcasts, Weezy.

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Speaker 3: Make sure y'all get that. Now let's get to this

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Speaker 3: week's episode. This is Mandy Bee.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Selective Ignorance, a production of The Black Effect

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Speaker 1: Podcast Network and Iart Radio. Welcome back to another episode

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Speaker 1: of Selective Ignorance, the space where we question what we've

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Speaker 1: been talked to ignore, and today we're talking about the

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Speaker 1: swing of the pendulum, and not just any pendulum, but

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Speaker 1: the one that defines the boundaries of women's autonomy, sexuality,

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Speaker 1: and public power. If y'all know me and y'all know

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Speaker 1: my platform. It's something I've stood for for a long time,

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Speaker 1: and the conversation today may shock some of you on

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Speaker 1: where I stand with where we are at. Remember the

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Speaker 1: first fire of the Me Too movement, Remember the boldness

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Speaker 1: of the SlutWalk, the raw sexual liberation and the lyrics

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Speaker 1: of Cardian Meg with Watt and so many other women

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Speaker 1: in hip hop who made us feel seen, not for

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Speaker 1: the male games, but for ourselves. It felt like we

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Speaker 1: were getting somewhere, that we were finally rewriting our narrative

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Speaker 1: that women could be sexual, powerful, free and not have

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Speaker 1: to pay for it with silent shame or survival. But

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Speaker 1: here's the uncomfortable truth. The pendulum has swung back, and

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Speaker 1: that's my take. But I'm joined by someone to help

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Speaker 1: me out here. Okay, it's been a hard swing. We've

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Speaker 1: watched Roe v. Wadefall, decades of bodily autonomy reverse in

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Speaker 1: a single legal blow, women forced to navigate pregnancies under

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Speaker 1: laws made by men who will never carry them. We

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Speaker 1: watch Diddy walk, and not in shame, not in accountability,

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Speaker 1: but in a world more invested in protecting his legacy

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Speaker 1: than listening to survivors. We still don't have the Epstein

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Speaker 1: client list either, because the system protects perpetrators, not the prey.

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Speaker 1: So the question is can a woman feel truly sexually

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Speaker 1: liberated in a world that still refuses to see her

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Speaker 1: as a victim When harm is done, we're owning your

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Speaker 1: body is somehow still an invitation for violence, judgment, or dismissal.

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Speaker 1: The patriarchy didn't just push back, It snatched the mic

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Speaker 1: and started rewriting the verses that we out here trying

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Speaker 1: to make for ourselves. What we called liberation, they reframed

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Speaker 1: is excess. What we call power they painted as a threat.

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Speaker 1: So is sexual freedom real if it's always up for negotiation?

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about it, And by that I mean all

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Speaker 1: of it, the illusion of progress, the weaponization of empowerment,

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Speaker 1: and what it means to seek liberation in a world

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Speaker 1: that punishes.

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Speaker 3: You for it.

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Speaker 1: This is selective ignorance, and we're not letting this pendulum

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Speaker 1: swing without calling it what it is. And y'all doing

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Speaker 1: that this week with me as always, My super producers

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Speaker 1: Jason and a.

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Speaker 3: King are on the mics. Y'all might not hear them

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Speaker 3: too much this episode, but you know, we steel like

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Speaker 3: to have men.

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Speaker 1: We like to have we like to have men in

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Speaker 1: the room during these conversations, so I do implore you

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Speaker 1: to speak up for men during this conversation because I

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Speaker 1: don't want people to feel like we're here just to

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Speaker 1: bash them.

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Speaker 4: Me.

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Speaker 1: Here's the thing, here's the thing with the internet. Whenever

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Speaker 1: we're speaking to things, none of us know all of anything.

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Speaker 1: I don't know all men, I don't know all women.

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Speaker 1: I am only here to speak for my experience, and

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Speaker 1: my guest is doing the same thing.

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Speaker 3: Today.

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Speaker 1: I am joined by Ashley Cobb, who is an award

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Speaker 1: winning sexual health expert who hosts the Sex with Aishley

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Speaker 1: podcast and is working on a book for release next

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Speaker 1: year called Pleasure Please. She also was on an episode

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Speaker 1: of Horrible Decisions where ooh, we talked about all things.

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Speaker 1: BD has some contracts and if you want to listen

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Speaker 1: to that, you can go over to the Horrible Decisions Patreon.

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Speaker 3: But really excited to have you on. It's funny because it's.

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Speaker 1: One of those where I truly believe out of sight,

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Speaker 1: out of mind, and I just ran into you at

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Speaker 1: Essence Fest right. We were at the Black Women's Health

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Speaker 1: Imperative booth where we got to hand out signed copies

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Speaker 1: of my New York Times bestselling book, No Holds Barred.

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Speaker 1: Shout out to Gilliad Sciences who sponsored those books for everybody,

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Speaker 1: and it's just always.

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Speaker 3: Good seeing you in those places. Did you enjoy your time?

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Speaker 1: The Internet has been loud about their thoughts on Essence fest,

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Speaker 1: But did you enjoy your time? What kind of conversations

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Speaker 1: where you having that weekend?

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Speaker 3: Have you been before, like you know.

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Speaker 5: So I've been going to Essence before working for Essence

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Speaker 5: before Covid. Okay, so I've been going pre COVID touch

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Speaker 5: my friend from college period and had a good have

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Speaker 5: a good time. So this is my This was my

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Speaker 5: second year actually working getting booked by Essence. So I

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Speaker 5: this year I was the host of one of their panels,

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Speaker 5: well not panels on the stage, one of their talks. Okay,

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Speaker 5: So I hosted a it was Essence after Dark. I

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Speaker 5: noticed it was the day time time, but me and

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Speaker 5: they had a sex therapist on stage, so I asked

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Speaker 5: her questions and then she got to answer a questions

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Speaker 5: from the audience.

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Speaker 3: So it was really cool. It was a really cool

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Speaker 3: little little panel. I love that. I love that. Uh.

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Speaker 1: This was my first year there and I worked the God. Yes,

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Speaker 1: So I will say this.

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Speaker 5: So last year where I did Essence, I did Essence

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Speaker 5: every day all three days, and I was from it

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Speaker 5: was from one to like four and and so I

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Speaker 5: was in the convenience center all day because I also

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Speaker 5: contract with Black Health Imperative, Okay, And so when I'm

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Speaker 5: not on the Essence stage, I'm with them, Okay, So

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Speaker 5: I am working, so I don't get to do like

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Speaker 5: the Traveler the fan ring. I'm there as a as

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Speaker 5: a as a worker, Okay.

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Speaker 3: So it's a very.

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Speaker 5: Experience when you're working Essence and then when you're going

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Speaker 5: to Essence as a as a lay member.

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Speaker 3: So I may have to go back in thirty years

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Speaker 3: when I'm the age demo.

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Speaker 5: Okay, Well, weasy not calling weezy now.

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Speaker 3: Look we're talking about what it is.

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Speaker 1: What's crazy is I ended up getting able to party

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Speaker 1: and have a good time.

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Speaker 3: I also.

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Speaker 1: Love that they're having the talks around sex in this space.

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Speaker 3: Because it's still very much like still not being had.

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Speaker 3: And I guess I'll.

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Speaker 1: Start with what the weekend kind of meant for me,

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Speaker 1: and I'd get into even where I'm at with this

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Speaker 1: topic as a whole. Right, So this was our like

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Speaker 1: first time really being invited to Essence in the eight

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Speaker 1: years that we were doing even horrible decisions. We were

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Speaker 1: invited maybe three or four years ago. The offer was

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Speaker 1: basically like, here's some pennies, but we would have had.

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Speaker 3: To pretty much pay to be a part of it.

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Speaker 1: Would we would have had to come out of pocket

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Speaker 1: to be a part of the weekend, and at the

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Speaker 1: time that just didn't make sense, right, So this was

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Speaker 1: our first time being a part of Essence on a large,

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Speaker 1: major scale. The day before getting there, it was brought

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Speaker 1: to us that we were New York Times bestsellers. So

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Speaker 1: literally the night before I leave out, I'm getting the

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Speaker 1: announcement from my publisher and I'm like, oh my god.

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Speaker 1: Like I was on such a high because I'm like,

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Speaker 1: whoa New York Times bestseller? That's the best, Like that's

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Speaker 1: the highest accolade that you could have as an author,

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Speaker 1: right like the way an artist gets a Grammy, the

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Speaker 1: way actors get Emmys. And Tony's like, this is the

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Speaker 1: pinnacle of being an author, and so I get to

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Speaker 1: celebrate it. We finally are going to Essence Fest, which

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Speaker 1: we were like we made it.

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Speaker 3: And we get there and there's there's.

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Speaker 1: A few companies we are attached to during the weekend,

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Speaker 1: and as I'm checking into my hotel, I'm told that

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Speaker 1: one of the companies apparently did their due diligence. Mind you,

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Speaker 1: the day that I'm there, less than twenty four hours

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Speaker 1: after being New York Times Bestselling authors for our book,

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Speaker 1: No Ho's Barn, we are told that the company wants

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with our brand, that we do not align,

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Speaker 1: that our brand is not brand safe.

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Speaker 3: Mind you. We are seven months into our rebrand.

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Speaker 1: The book, and what we actually stand for is empowering

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Speaker 1: for women, and so.

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Speaker 3: Literally did not get to.

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Speaker 1: Feel the triumph or celebrate having this new title that

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Speaker 1: I thought would stamp me as official essentially, you.

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Speaker 3: Know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: And it was just even more heartbreaking because it's like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm at this festival that celebrates black women, but on

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Speaker 1: the other foot, a sexually liberated black woman is where

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Speaker 1: we draw the line. And so I brought this to

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Speaker 1: therapy and I've just been feeling really defeated lately, like

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Speaker 1: in terms of my branding, my messaging, what I want

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Speaker 1: to put out into the universe, because when I meet

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Speaker 1: my fans, when I go on tour.

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Speaker 3: When I'm at booth signing the books.

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Speaker 1: The response from the women on the ground are that,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, this is transformative.

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Speaker 3: You've saved my life.

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Speaker 1: Essence, it was so dope to meet women in their

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Speaker 1: fifties and sixties like, Ooh, I wish I had this

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Speaker 1: when I was younger.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: There were so many thank yous that it becomes unfortunate

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Speaker 1: that the louder voice the bigger voice.

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Speaker 3: And let's get into it.

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Speaker 1: I'm not even talking about white men here. I'm not

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Speaker 1: even talking about men as a whole. In other instances,

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Speaker 1: and I've shared it on my other pod, I may

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Speaker 1: have shared it here. I've had to fight black women

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Speaker 1: within the space to feel respected or seen because black

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Speaker 1: women also don't want to allow other black women to

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Speaker 1: be liberated, right, And it's and it's and it's strange

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Speaker 1: for me. And so I'm not going to start off

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Speaker 1: this pod bashing black women, I promise, but I do

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Speaker 1: want to open the floor to letting the audience know, like,

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Speaker 1: this isn't just the patriarch versus the matriarch, This isn't

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Speaker 1: just a man versus woman battle.

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Speaker 3: It's like overall.

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Speaker 1: Society and where we exist as people and so pre production,

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Speaker 1: I was talking to Ashley and she was like, oh yeah, girl,

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Speaker 1: oh you just found out black women are my biggest hater.

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Speaker 3: And so where is it.

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Speaker 1: Or what is the tug of war between us wanting

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Speaker 1: to find the freedom and existing while also trying to

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Speaker 1: make other women not feel so like do they feel

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Speaker 1: attacked with our liberation? Do they feel like we're taking

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Speaker 1: them a few steps back by being liberated? What are

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Speaker 1: the conversations you've been having and what is the response

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Speaker 1: from your type of content too?

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Speaker 3: So before I get to that, right, yea, I have

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Speaker 3: a question.

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Speaker 5: So the brand who brought you in, right, yes, what

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Speaker 5: did they think you did?

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Speaker 4: We?

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Speaker 1: Decisions Decisions is still a and and mind you, we

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Speaker 1: don't say it's a sex pod, but it's a dating

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Speaker 1: and relationship pod, bitch. When you date and you relate

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Speaker 1: you sex, okay, Like I like, I don't know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know.

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Speaker 3: Because I mean, yes in your name it pops up.

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Speaker 1: And Horrible Decisions is still very much a part of

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Speaker 1: our brand. It's still there. Mandy and Wheezy are Horrible Decisions?

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Speaker 3: Right? Yeah, I don't I'm not gonna lie. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Mind you a part of the rebrand was to be

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Speaker 1: able to step in more spaces and kind of amplify

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Speaker 1: our voices essentially because I get it. Not everyone wants

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Speaker 1: to call themselves a whore, right, everyone has sex, but

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Speaker 1: not everyone wants to be labeled into those type of stigmas.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, and so I will say this, so essence

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Speaker 5: is very as as Mandy has said, is for the

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Speaker 5: thirty five and older aunties my direction of people, and

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Speaker 5: so it is very conservative, very much so. I think

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Speaker 5: black women in whole are conservative in general, even once

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Speaker 5: we are fucking are are our conservative or conservative adjacent?

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Speaker 5: Like you know in particularly instances Also well, the magazine

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Speaker 5: is from New York, but the festivals in the South,

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Speaker 5: so you have women in the bell like you know,

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Speaker 5: we talk about six but we don't talk about out loud.

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Speaker 5: It's the thing that we don't. We do hush hush,

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Speaker 5: So like even with them, even with me working working

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Speaker 5: with them for the last two years, you know, it's

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Speaker 5: very it's still very The content that we do is

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Speaker 5: very PG.

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Speaker 3: Content.

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Speaker 1: But outside of saying hey, we're a condom or be abstinent,

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Speaker 1: what does PG sex content look like with like for

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Speaker 1: me from a liberating side. So is it always unpg

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Speaker 1: to advocate a woman to have sex for her pleasure

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Speaker 1: or get her orgasm and not be doing it just

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Speaker 1: to get a certain attention from the male gaze or

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Speaker 1: to reproduce, like outside of reproduction. I think that's my problem.

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Speaker 1: Sexual liberation is really about having your own autonomy and

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Speaker 1: being able to say yes or no, or being able

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Speaker 1: to advocate for yourself as a woman in the bedroom.

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Speaker 1: And so for this for sexual liberation that has such

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Speaker 1: a goddamn negative, bad off the wall non conservative stigma

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Speaker 1: is crazy because it's advocating.

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Speaker 3: You're advocating for yourself.

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Speaker 5: And I think so like for me personally, like professionally,

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Speaker 5: I think, well, let's talk about this past essence. So

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Speaker 5: for me, they put me on the stage as the host,

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Speaker 5: and they had a sex therapist okay first who answered

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Speaker 5: the question, which was totally founding me. Like she was

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Speaker 5: very clinical, she was very professional, she was very you know,

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Speaker 5: cussing real life right, I said, I say pussy, I

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Speaker 5: say fuck right, you know, So I have to be

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Speaker 5: very cognizant of that when I'm in different spaces, and

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Speaker 5: so like getting me to do the whole stuff that

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Speaker 5: works because I might say an answered that it might

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Speaker 5: not be on brand for them, so they paired me

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Speaker 5: with someone who was very much on brands.

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Speaker 3: Okay, it kind of works for me.

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Speaker 5: I am just and this is and maybe this is

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Speaker 5: me taking the scraps, but I am just happy that

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Speaker 5: they actually have and uh, they're allowing kind of set

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Speaker 5: conversations to be taking taking place. And yet so it's

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Speaker 5: not on the main it's in stage which one day

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Speaker 5: I hope that one day it gets there, So it's

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Speaker 5: on the little stages all throughout the room. But I'm

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Speaker 5: just happy that they're at least having the conversations and

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Speaker 5: that people are at least walking away with something. I

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Speaker 5: guess that that's the something better than nothing kind of mentality.

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Speaker 3: The crumbs.

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Speaker 1: Let us let us just continue receiving the crumbs, right,

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Speaker 1: And I think you even saying the baby step. That's

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Speaker 1: why I want to get into this conversation. But before

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Speaker 1: we do, y'all know, I introduced a new segment. It's

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Speaker 1: called double Down or Take It Back, And I recently

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Speaker 1: said with Shamboo dram about what sexual liberation kind of

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Speaker 1: looks like to me or what I thought it looked like,

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Speaker 1: and how that shifted, and boy were the comments commenting. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so I want you to listen to my take on

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Speaker 1: the Lover's podcast with Shamboody and hear your kind of

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Speaker 1: thoughts on what.

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Speaker 3: I had to say.

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Speaker 6: About that, because you always hear the story of the

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Speaker 6: woman who was sexually liberated, did her thing, had her

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Speaker 6: whole phase, enjoyed it, who then finds a partner, finds God,

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Speaker 6: finds insert here and now is like, if I could

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Speaker 6: give advice to younger women, it would be don't respect yourself,

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Speaker 6: love yourself.

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Speaker 3: I don't think that that's the advice I would give.

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Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you too, Like even with the

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Speaker 1: rebrand right, and I think as a woman seeking her

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Speaker 1: own sexual liberation and what it really means is freedom

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Speaker 1: and power to remove yourself from all stigmas and all

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Speaker 1: labels that patriarchy has wanted to give us. Right, however,

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Speaker 1: to feel free and to feel powerful, and to be

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Speaker 1: able to express to a man no, and to say, actually,

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Speaker 1: this is how I receive pleasure. If you can't do that,

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Speaker 1: I'm fine me not changing myself to appease a man

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Speaker 1: or to be more likely for him to select me.

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Speaker 1: That's power that's liberation.

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Speaker 3: You believe it.

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Speaker 1: So I want to lean into kind of what the

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Speaker 1: comments and why that seemed like outrage. They pretty much

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Speaker 1: insinuated because comprehension skills are lacked amongst us. They pretty

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Speaker 1: much insinuated that any woman who's gone through a whole phase,

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Speaker 1: you've reached this point when you're not chosen, when you're

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Speaker 1: not married. So they pretty much what shamed me in

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Speaker 1: my comments for saying what this is more times than

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Speaker 1: not a par I doubled down on my takes, but

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Speaker 1: that was literally I still stand in that. I think

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Speaker 1: sexual liberation for me, at one point did look like

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Speaker 1: just being able to fuck without care, and that has

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Speaker 1: now shifted to me viewing liberation as having sex because

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Speaker 1: I wanted not to make someone like me more having

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Speaker 1: sex because I know what works for my body and

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Speaker 1: I'm going to make sure he's doing exactly what I

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Speaker 1: want to please me. So the fact that there's this

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Speaker 1: negative connotation around the word now bothers me because sexual

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Speaker 1: liberation did look like free hop phase, like what is

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Speaker 1: it a free spirit?

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: And so I wanted to know your thoughts on that

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Speaker 1: clip and if your mindset has changed, or if the

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Speaker 1: way you talk about sexual liberation is different than it

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Speaker 1: once was for any for any reason.

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Speaker 5: So yes, I think as you change, you just your

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Speaker 5: viewpoint on. As you age, your viewpoint does changed different things.

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Speaker 3: Period.

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Speaker 5: So when I so like you when I was twenty

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Speaker 5: and I was just fucking just as the fuck because

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Speaker 5: I want to like, but.

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Speaker 3: What did you want to?

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Speaker 5: So yes and no, okay, so uh in my younger twenties,

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Speaker 5: so I was having six because I thought this is

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Speaker 5: what I needed to do for God to like me. Yep,

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Speaker 5: as I got towards late twenties, I was doing because

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Speaker 5: oh I like doing this right and so and now

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Speaker 5: I was just you know, right, just outside. And to

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Speaker 5: be honest, last summer I was also outside. She said,

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Speaker 5: Actually it was just outside, right, you know, just it changes.

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Speaker 5: I'm not as outside, It's just different like so now

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Speaker 5: as someone who is forty.

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Speaker 3: So yeah.

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Speaker 5: So so somebody told me, somebody told me what advice

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Speaker 5: would you give a girl? And I was like a

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Speaker 5: young a young woman consumed to what shann asked you?

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Speaker 5: And I told her A whole longer, hole longer, whole

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Speaker 5: longer is my advice. And I'm a saved I need

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Speaker 5: to know what because right this is going so I

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Speaker 5: don't feel in this and this and this. Maybe this

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Speaker 5: is the feminist in me. Okay, maybe I don't feel

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Speaker 5: like women should be trying to get married in their twenties,

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Speaker 5: like you should be doing that thirty.

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Speaker 3: Get married in your thirties.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you would, you would recommend that someone holds

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Speaker 1: throughout their entire twenties into their thirties.

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Speaker 3: That's that's just my advice. Okay, that's just what I think.

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Speaker 1: And you could take it or leave it. And what

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Speaker 1: does a woman get for ho and longer?

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Speaker 5: So one you get to learn what what you like sexually,

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Speaker 5: you get you warn a lot about men by hoeing too.

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Speaker 5: I feel like you get to learn how men operate,

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Speaker 5: how they think, how they deal with other people, how

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Speaker 5: they deal with you.

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Speaker 3: I feel because when you a whole, they honest, they

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Speaker 3: letting you. All the other women.

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Speaker 5: Say you could you get to know how men operate

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Speaker 5: because if you're just someone who's being like I've been

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Speaker 5: in one relationship for say, I got to out dating

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Speaker 5: my high school sweetheart. I also don't believe you should

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Speaker 5: marry the first guy you dat in high school. You know,

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Speaker 5: shout to my mama.

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Speaker 1: I just don't believe I ain't gonna hold you the

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Speaker 1: way I'm about to clip up everything you're saying, I

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Speaker 1: can't wait for the internet.

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Speaker 5: I just don't believe that from from from what I've

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Speaker 5: seen in the older generation, right, our parents generation, they're

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Speaker 5: the ones who.

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Speaker 3: Got married young. They seem lost.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, got a high school sweetheart, only man you've been with, right,

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Speaker 5: and so you don't know how.

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Speaker 3: You have no idea how that the other options out there.

403
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Speaker 3: You have no idea that there's better there's better sex,

404
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Speaker 3: there's better men, there's better men who can who treat

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Speaker 3: you right now, it gets longer, gets that, Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Just on a relationship standpoint, outside of sex, it's just

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Speaker 5: better because you don't know that because you've only been

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Speaker 5: with one guy or you only had two.

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Speaker 3: Relationships in your life. So you have got a got

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Speaker 3: B and that's it, right.

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Speaker 5: So I think when you ho longer and doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 5: mean that you.

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Speaker 3: Just fucking inning and everybody.

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Speaker 5: So when you say that too, I think in terms

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Speaker 5: of what I mean is that you are centering your

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Speaker 5: centering yourself first, and you're not centering men.

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Speaker 1: I think though that's hard the fact that both of

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Speaker 1: us can acknowledge though that in our twenties we were

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Speaker 1: very ignorant and in our sexual prowess and exploration actually

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Speaker 1: leaning more towards doing it for them and not for

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Speaker 1: ourselves at all. So to me, if if there's a

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Speaker 1: suggestion for anybody to hold longer or be within their

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Speaker 1: whole phase, there has to be conversations earlier about what

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Speaker 1: that really entails. And unfortunately, again the conversations just aren't

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Speaker 1: being had right.

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Speaker 5: And it's also so with every action there is there

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Speaker 5: there is reaction and consequences, right, So there's think there's

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Speaker 5: there's rules within hoeing, like you know, where.

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Speaker 3: Out the gate you don't have babies.

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Speaker 5: Bytery man, You fucking right, you know, k I would

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Speaker 5: stay different. She loved being pregnant.

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Speaker 3: She love it. You know, I'm certain to think I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna do too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she's been pregnant every year, she said, y'all a

435
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Speaker 1: never never, But.

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Speaker 5: Like, you know, don't it's frowned upon, you know, to

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Speaker 5: fuck homies in the same you know circle if if

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Speaker 5: you want to be with one seriously, like it's just

439
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Speaker 5: just certain rules and things I'm gonna say, don't do it.

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Speaker 3: But if you're doing it, just know that you know

441
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 3: that was my problem. Yeah, it's so I was dealing.

442
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:32,880
Speaker 3: I was dealing with this guy.

443
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 1: So before I started dealing with him, I fucked the homie. Mandeed,

444
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: she fucked the hommie. Remember I'll remember that song. Anyways,

445
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: So I but I only had sex with this guy

446
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,880
Speaker 1: once and it was terrible, So it was never going back.

447
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 1: Ended up meeting a guy who was actually friends with

448
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 1: his brother but was still in the circle right. Ended

449
00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:01,239
Speaker 1: up dealing with him for for a few years, and

450
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 1: it got to where there became an emotional connection between

451
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: us and when I.

452
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 3: Tell you the literal.

453
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 1: Thing that was like, I can't get over this mentally,

454
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna tell you he said, if I marry you,

455
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,360
Speaker 1: that is one of my friends that will be invited

456
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 1: to my wedding. And I don't know how I can

457
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,160
Speaker 1: handle the emotional mental gymnastics of being at a wedding

458
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 1: knowing you fuck my own boy.

459
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 5: Men care about what the friends say, they do, lookt

460
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 5: the nodding of the heads.

461
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,160
Speaker 1: Why do y'all care so much y'all care about about

462
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,880
Speaker 1: because here's the thing, right, No, No, I just want

463
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 1: to say because as a woman. As a woman, if

464
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 1: I dealt with a guy physically and it just wasn't

465
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: good and I could care less about him, my friend

466
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: could go marry him and I wouldn't give a goddamn

467
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: my wife.

468
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 7: My wife stayed my homeboy before me.

469
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 5: Oh they had second.

470
00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 7: Day, both of them both.

471
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 3: Hoo.

472
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's man, still a man, you know.

473
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 8: You know.

474
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,400
Speaker 3: The funny thing is, wait, how did you get past that?

475
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 7: We So I'm the one who.

476
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 4: I jumped in the line right like they were, they

477
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 4: were messing around.

478
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 3: I cut the line.

479
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 7: So I was a dirty dude. Yeah, I was a

480
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 7: dirty dude there.

481
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 4: But but then but then he saw us out, he

482
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 4: saw us out at Greenhouse and then oh dating, Yeah,

483
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 4: but then but then, but then, but then I approached him.

484
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 4: I approached him and and you know, I talked about

485
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 4: like what his friendship meant to me, and.

486
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,239
Speaker 3: It didn't mean much of you out here.

487
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 7: His girls, well, but it wasn't his girl.

488
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 4: They were dating. That's why I said they were dating.

489
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 4: They were dating and it wasn't his girl, right, But

490
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 4: still he didn't. But it's because of the thing that

491
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 4: we're saying. He didn't like it, right, Like he didn't

492
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 4: like it.

493
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:46,959
Speaker 7: I stepped him.

494
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 4: I was like, yo, like that, that's you know that

495
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 4: I didn't want to act upon like something that doesn't

496
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 4: agree with our friends.

497
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 3: But how did you get past?

498
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 2: Look?

499
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,120
Speaker 1: I think you're about to ask how did you get past?

500
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: Though actually wanting to I don't care?

501
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 7: Okay, I honestly didn't care.

502
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 4: And then the funny thing is it's like I knew

503
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,360
Speaker 4: that they liked each other as like humans, but it's

504
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 4: like you know when you're young and dating and it's

505
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 4: like chaotic, and so it's like we got married and

506
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 4: at the wedding with the crib and they had a

507
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 4: small wedding where like there was four people, but he

508
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 4: came to the crib like two summers ago, and I

509
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,199
Speaker 4: had a big barbecue and they're talking, and I know

510
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 4: that they like each other, and it's like they both

511
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:25,919
Speaker 4: work in the business, so like when I see them

512
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:27,640
Speaker 4: around each other and they talk, I know that there's

513
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 4: a genuine feeling there that they have for one another.

514
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 4: That's fine, right, Like if she were to leave me

515
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 4: for him, it's because of me, not because of him, right,

516
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 4: So there's there's there's.

517
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 1: Over there, like everything saying no, no, no, no, I

518
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 1: have questions, you feel that.

519
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 4: I can feel that for people thinking that and doing that,

520
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 4: and I get the general like the general man stance

521
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,719
Speaker 4: of like nah, fuck dad, I can't do that. I

522
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 4: just think it has to do with so much that's

523
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 4: not you, and so much it's like internally you right,

524
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,199
Speaker 4: people waste their time and energy on it.

525
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 2: I agree when you said they were dating, how did you?

526
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 2: How did you? How are you aware of that? Like

527
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 2: probing questions like quietly, and then you just like.

528
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 4: No, I think I think I knew, Like I think

529
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 4: she was open with like she was dating people. I

530
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 4: definitely a bunch of different people. So it's like she

531
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,199
Speaker 4: knew and like I could see them out together. She

532
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 4: would see me out with like another chick, and you know,

533
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 4: it was like it was it was that kind of

534
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,919
Speaker 4: like the messy, a messy circle of like non committed people.

535
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie. You just gave me hope.

536
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 5: And so I love the fact that he is because

537
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 5: a lot of men are into like ownership from God forbid?

538
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 5: Like who is Uh, it's something going viral now about

539
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 5: some celebrity girl she's dating.

540
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 3: I think it's Megan. Megan dating Clayton, and so people

541
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,719
Speaker 3: are saying, oh my god, and she gets passed around.

542
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 3: She's dating. Yeah, she's had to be a public figure,

543
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 3: so we know who she's dating. But it's a little

544
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 3: much to post every nigga you online. Now, I don't

545
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 3: post no nigga like.

546
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: You could be sexually liberated, but god damn, like, I

547
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 1: don't want to see everybody inside of you.

548
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 3: Like I agreed, I don't.

549
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 5: My rule of thumb is want once I get married,

550
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 5: then I'll post him. But you know I changed, you know, period,

551
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:19,199
Speaker 5: like the season, but no one knows that.

552
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 2: But my friend, what you.

553
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 8: Said before is that me personally knowing how I am

554
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 8: behind closed doors with said person and how sexual liberating.

555
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 2: How I am. I couldn't imagine another dude being a dog.

556
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 3: Oh my god, nigga, you're not the first, you're not

557
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 3: the last, or or you know what I'm gonna at

558
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 3: a party.

559
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 8: But the mental gymnastics that you've met referenced before, it's.

560
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,959
Speaker 1: Like, like, if you like how I'm sucking your dick,

561
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: best believe out of something other dick that way, God.

562
00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 2: From something.

563
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 8: But what I'm saying, unless I'm in Jason's position point

564
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 8: of view, where.

565
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:06,479
Speaker 3: Were you speaking in being a dirty dog?

566
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 8: Skipped the line and it don't matter, But I don't

567
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 8: if I'm being skipped.

568
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 4: But I think to so like that that same barbecue

569
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 4: I'm talking about, where like my homeboy came over and

570
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 4: he used to date my wife. My ex was also there,

571
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 4: other homeboy, my other homeboy was dating her.

572
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 3: Jason just saying we gotta have another.

573
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 2: The next barbecue.

574
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: Hey, yo, if any of y'all a barbecue at Jason's house,

575
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: just no, him or his wife may or may not

576
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: have everybody there.

577
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 4: Everybody my point, she was saying, like, you know, he

578
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 4: called me, right, He called me and was like, Yo,

579
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 4: I'm gonna bring my new girl.

580
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 7: I'm like, yeah, come through, and he tells me who

581
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 7: it is.

582
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 4: And I knew he was trying to have like the

583
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 4: ownership conversation, and I'm like, good dude, like I've been

584
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 4: married to my wife for six years.

585
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 3: Wait, this hasn't been smashed before.

586
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 7: Yes, this is this is we're not doing this.

587
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 4: So my point, he was trying to have like the

588
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 4: ownership of conversations like is it okay if I bring

589
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 4: her over? And I'm like, yo, dude, like we haven't

590
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 4: dated in so long, right, So it's like that that

591
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 4: that idea of like the ownership thing, like just because

592
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 4: I dated her in the past, Like there's this whole

593
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 4: chain of women that are off limits because of like

594
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 4: some like quasi ownership.

595
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 9: Giving you had a hell of a really so like

596
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 9: but I dated, It's that's what women did. But that's

597
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 9: what women say we're dating, and we get shamed for

598
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 9: being outside dating.

599
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 3: So for example, so like back to Jason situation, so.

600
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 7: You know, I don't get the situation.

601
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 5: Okay, scenario scenario, scenario carry out. So like there's this

602
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 5: dude I was dating my first moved to a Lamba

603
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 5: that I knew from back home, right, and he was

604
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 5: a part of we went. He was a part of

605
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 5: a Greek organization that from now, why would you ever

606
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 5: do that?

607
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 1: And I they don't want to be a little wait,

608
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: well which Greek organizations?

609
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 4: Okay, you can't say too easy to fay.

610
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 5: I mean anybody who knows it, no me, no, there,

611
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 5: I know who it is that knows me know him.

612
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 5: But so he was a part of an organization from

613
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 5: my from back home, right, and so in that organization

614
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 5: I had sex with a few people from that organization

615
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 5: over the years.

616
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 3: Okay, it wasn't like it was all college. It was

617
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 3: some college.

618
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: A lot they happened.

619
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 3: Like I'm forty, right, I don't live.

620
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 7: How many on the same how many? How many on

621
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 7: the same line?

622
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 3: Though I never never knowne the same line?

623
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 5: So I don't do lines, right, So I'll do so

624
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 5: you know, oh four oh five, oh six, three, right

625
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 5: oh two, there we go.

626
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 3: But not none of the on l B's none of

627
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 3: my line ruggers the.

628
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 2: Very sic.

629
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 5: So we had a conversation and h with I was

630
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 5: talking to him and I was like, oh, yeah, you know,

631
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 5: blah blah blah, No, I used to date blah blah blah,

632
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 5: you know several years ago. He was like oh, I

633
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 5: was like yeah, and you know, and then we I

634
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 5: was like, and there.

635
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 3: Was, you know, another one a couple of years before that.

636
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 5: I even could tell him to the rest of them,

637
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 5: because just our conversation, I could tell like he was like,

638
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 5: it was a no. And I remember it was this

639
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 5: whole thing with he and I one time, and it

640
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 5: was a thing where like people realized that he and

641
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 5: now were kind of a thing at the moment, and

642
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 5: it was a whole thing and he could not get

643
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 5: past the fact that.

644
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 3: I had these experience experiences.

645
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,959
Speaker 5: But one of the people that he knew, and I

646
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 5: was like, I don't understand, Like I get it, I

647
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 5: understand how men think, so I get it, but I

648
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 5: think it's very stupid.

649
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 1: It's so crazy because women, on the other hand, you

650
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: you could have fucked three of my homegirls in the past.

651
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: Like we'll talk about it normally. It'll be like, like,

652
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: we don't have that ownership on niggas because maybe we

653
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: to be community.

654
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 3: That's what it is. And you know what I mean.

655
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: I think there's an expectation for men to be able

656
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: to be liberated right and their sexual exploration and prowess,

657
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: and for whatever reason, we're not granted that same I

658
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: don't want to bring grace to the cookout, but we're

659
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: not granted the grace to explore and find ourselves in

660
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: the same way that they do. Like Jason probably doesn't

661
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: end up with his wife if he's not outside fucking

662
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: on all of his homeboys girls apparently, you know what

663
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: I mean. So it's such that we don't get to

664
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: fuck it off. Are your homeboys to figure out what

665
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: we like?

666
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 2: It?

667
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 5: Like a small world like, even when I moved to

668
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 5: Atlanta five years ago, okay, and so I had a

669
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 5: friend here who's been here longer. She's a female friend,

670
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 5: and she was she was dating al in Atlanta. I

671
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 5: met one of her exes on a day nep. I

672
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 5: didn't know it was her ex though, so like, so

673
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 5: after I went out with him, you know, we had

674
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 5: six or whatever. And then I told her about the

675
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 5: after fact and she was like, girl, I know him.

676
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 5: And I was like, oh really really, well me too

677
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 5: now and so like and she was like no, she's

678
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 5: what she said. I was like, well, do you feel away,

679
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 5: you know, because like we're cool and we're really friends.

680
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 5: And she's like, well, no, I think you guys are

681
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 5: better fit because I'm into like alternative lifestyles and same

682
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 5: and Sally and all that stuff.

683
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 3: And so she is not.

684
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 5: She's very traditional and that was part of their issue.

685
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 5: And she was like, I think y'all are good fit.

686
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 1: It's funny because I think that we're in the space

687
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 1: now in terms of sexual liberation, that the relationship dynamics

688
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 1: are also drawing the line between us as not only

689
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:46,439
Speaker 1: a community but within women and how we either hold

690
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: ourselves accountable.

691
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 3: Four ways because mind you, I have I have maybe two.

692
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 1: Or three friends refuses to identify as Polly are opened,

693
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: but have cheated on all of their partners.

694
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 3: And so mind you, but.

695
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: All hell breaks loose if their partner's cheat, but they've

696
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: also stayed there. Yes, yes, So it's just been interesting

697
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: on how we as even friend groups, hold each other

698
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: to certain standards in question while also wanting to empower

699
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 1: each other in bitch, I know that's right, bitch, go outside,

700
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:24,919
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, there's like just this line

701
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,720
Speaker 1: that can be drawn. I do want to get into

702
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 1: some things that have pushed us to have more of

703
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: these conversations from a cultural state. So we're gonna be

704
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:44,320
Speaker 1: down for some ignorance real quick. In men also currently

705
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:49,439
Speaker 1: not being held accountable, or it's two sides of the coin.

706
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 1: Men not really being held accountable for abusing women, whether

707
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: it be physically, sexually, all the things. But then also

708
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 1: I want to get into and this is where we

709
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: might shake some tables. There has been a backlash of

710
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: the me too movement where I have physically and verbally

711
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: heard and seen women weaponize the ability to accuse men

712
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: of behaviors whether they did it or not. And so

713
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: I think there's also with the me Too movement, two

714
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 1: things happening. We've now been educated on different terminology that

715
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,800
Speaker 1: we're still learning. And there's also a confusion of being

716
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 1: uncomfortable and being.

717
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:39,399
Speaker 3: Harassed or assaulted. And so there's this really big blur.

718
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 1: And I want to talk about your thoughts and views

719
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: on now the verdict of the Ditty case, and then

720
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 1: I also want to get into the Ben macklamore case.

721
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 3: But we'll start with your thoughts on.

722
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 1: Ditty and then I want to bring in the Ben

723
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 1: maclamore case and what we think could have happened that

724
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:01,320
Speaker 1: happened all the things.

725
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 5: So at first, let me say I didn't really think

726
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 5: that he was going to get on anything, Okay, so

727
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 5: let me start there.

728
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 2: Okay.

729
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 3: So I was surprised they found they came back with something.

730
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,439
Speaker 1: And that's because you see just that people aren't being

731
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: charged with these type of crimes. The rico was a

732
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: lot that I'm even talking about.

733
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 3: Yes, the rico was was was a lot.

734
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 2: I want.

735
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 5: I don't feel like the prosecution, I don't know. I

736
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 5: feel like they were focusing on.

737
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 3: A lot and they were poken a lot on the sex. Yeah,

738
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:33,439
Speaker 3: and the sex was not what we were here for.

739
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 5: So and then that, and then when and then uh,

740
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 5: when the deliberate the jury start deliberated and they came

741
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 5: back and said, oh, well, don't focus on these anymore.

742
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 3: To focus on that. I was like, oh, he about

743
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 3: to be home to yeah.

744
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

745
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 5: So when they came back, it was like, oh, you

746
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 5: know he's guilty of you know, prostitution on the Demands Act. Okay, cool,

747
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 5: you know, so it's get like the crumbs, like we'll

748
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,720
Speaker 5: we'll take something. Because typically when power from men outside

749
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:03,800
Speaker 5: of you know, Harvey Wanne thing because he's in prison,

750
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 5: you know, typically stuff it doesn't nothing happens typically, or

751
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 5: they'll or you know, well, or they'll get a slap

752
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 5: on the risk. Now this is a slap on a risk. Still,

753
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 5: now that's for him.

754
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: I want to ask, Oh, let's see how we're gonna

755
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 1: have this conversation. I want to ask your thoughts on

756
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: Cassie's standpoint in the trial as well as Jane Doe,

757
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: because I think what I saw in terms of the

758
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: public outrage around their testimonies was the fine line between

759
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 1: someone being a sexually liberated wild woman that's into certain

760
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: sex acts and then also.

761
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 7: Being a victim.

762
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, saw that too.

763
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 5: So I think people don't understand that sometimes that power

764
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:55,280
Speaker 5: distores consent. Right, So someone who has more access, more money,

765
00:38:55,480 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 5: more employment, control, more fame, whatever, Right, So yes, they

766
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 5: those people hold the power, and so I may be

767
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 5: too scared to say no because if I say no,

768
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 5: there goes my career. If I say no, if your

769
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 5: a person who's paying my bills, there goes my bills.

770
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 5: I mean, so, yes, you could say no and I

771
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:17,839
Speaker 5: could be homeless and not gonna have a job. That's

772
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 5: always option true. Yes, but you know they manipulate their

773
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 5: power with the access they give you.

774
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 3: But does the power of capitalism as a whole.

775
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 2: Right.

776
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: So it's interesting because I saw someone compare it and

777
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: it did make me think. So this is not my

778
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: my thought process, but I was like, ooh, it made

779
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 1: me think.

780
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 3: Right, Say you have a job, Say you hate the

781
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 3: treatment at your work. Say you show up.

782
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: To a boss that you don't like, but you show

783
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 1: up every goddamn day to work. I do could you

784
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: sue that company? Because now you're a victim of abuse.

785
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 1: And so the parallel to see showing up if you're

786
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: showing up for money, if you're showing up because you

787
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: have alternative reasons as to why you're showing up again

788
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 1: a career and you're doing things you don't want to do,

789
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 1: are you a victim? If you are choosing to show

790
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 1: up and continue to stay in that relationship. Are you

791
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: a victim if you're choosing to continue to show up

792
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,720
Speaker 1: to a job that underpays you and doesn't treat you well,

793
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 1: to a system which would be the power the job

794
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:32,359
Speaker 1: being the company that now And so when we get

795
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: into these relationships, there's so many other dynamics where we're

796
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:39,800
Speaker 1: actually existing in those same power dynamics. And so again

797
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,479
Speaker 1: I think when you when you conflate all the things

798
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: with the actual sex they were having, there was another

799
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: struggle of power dynamics.

800
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 3: But also as women, there's women that might want three

801
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 3: at a time.

802
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: There might be women that like induce taking the drugs

803
00:40:56,040 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 1: before that. So to me, it blurred what consent looks

804
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 1: like because we read them say they loved him, they

805
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 1: went back, And so I think that that's why both

806
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 1: of their testimonies also didn't help to the public perceived

807
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 1: them as victims.

808
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 3: Jane Do that's the fifty.

809
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: Cents who was getting the ten thousand dollars a month.

810
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 1: And that's another part of this where unfortunately, if you

811
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 1: take money, if you are a sex worker, you can.

812
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 3: Never be a victim of a sexual crime.

813
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 1: According to the Internet, right according to society. And so

814
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: when we have these deeper conversations of what autonomy looks like,

815
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 1: it's hard for me currently to be pro sex positive,

816
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: pro sex work and not understand the blurred lines of

817
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 1: how we actually can protect ourselves if we are violated,

818
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 1: because the world does not see those things as you

819
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: being able.

820
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 5: To be a victim at all because two things are

821
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 5: you said, two things could be tru at the same time, Yes,

822
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 5: I was getting paid for a service, and yes you

823
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 5: still violated me.

824
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 1: How do you hold someone accountable when two things are true?

825
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: Because I think that that's the problem right when we're

826
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 1: talking about consent, and that's where I kind of want

827
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 1: to get into the Ben maclamore case of it all.

828
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: So Ben Macklamore, former NBA player, he was recently found

829
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 1: guilty of raping a twenty one year old woman. He

830
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 1: was sentenced to eight years in prison, approximately one hundred

831
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: months she testified and if you see that both of

832
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 1: them testified to their own truths, right, whatever it looked like.

833
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 1: So she testified that she was passed out, woke up

834
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 1: to him having sex with her. She woke up and

835
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 1: he was gone. Mind you, there's videos of her throwing up.

836
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 1: There's evidence that she had to be carried and put

837
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 1: on this couch. His testimony is a little different. His

838
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 1: testimony is that he also this is where it gets

839
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 1: It's like, his testimony is that he fell asleep on

840
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 1: the same couch because there was a party at there

841
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 1: as teammates lakehouse.

842
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 3: He fell asleep on the same couch and woke up

843
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 3: to her rubbing on him. Okay, he ensued sex. When

844
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 3: he was done, he left.

845
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 1: So his testimony is that, well, she came on to me,

846
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 1: it appeared to be consensual. The only thing that I

847
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: did wrong was be a bad guy by not holding

848
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 1: a conversation with her after. So then the conversation is

849
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,359
Speaker 1: also is she mad that he didn't stay and treat

850
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 1: her well after or was she actually assaulted? Did she

851
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 1: regret having sex with him because she was drunk? He

852
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 1: also was drunk as well, And so again the blurt

853
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 1: lines of and this is.

854
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 5: What the waters get muddy, like when I go to

855
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 5: colleges and I talk to young boys, I'd say this,

856
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 5: I'm like, if you, if there has been some type

857
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 5: of drinking involved, if there has been some type of

858
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,840
Speaker 5: drugs involved, don't have sex that night. Just don't because

859
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 5: the waters get very muddy.

860
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 1: I just hate that that's the responsibility of the man,

861
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,360
Speaker 1: because to be fair, I've had a lot of sex

862
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 1: drunk to where I've had to deal with the reality that.

863
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 3: I don't remember what happened the night before.

864
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: And it would be unfair to claim that said person

865
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: rake me, because I'm sure I was all here for it,

866
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: and so I just hate they were also in a

867
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: place where we remove the accountability of women should not

868
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: have sex either if they are drunk. And unfortunately, though

869
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: a lot of women are given the courage and confidence

870
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:43,280
Speaker 1: to have sex when they're drunk, it allows them to

871
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: feel free in the moment, which is unfortunate because then

872
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 1: it leaves a lot of men in the fucked up

873
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: position to be fully responsible as to whether they sexually

874
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: assaulted or committed a.

875
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:57,320
Speaker 5: Crime in that And That's what I'm gonna say, Like, yes,

876
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 5: the woman should have sex either, but the woman is

877
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 5: also the person who not going to go to prison

878
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 5: if they say this was.

879
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 3: Well, neither. A lot of times.

880
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,240
Speaker 1: In this case, I brought it up because he actually

881
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 1: didn't put in a lot of cases.

882
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,360
Speaker 5: And there's a lot of cases of and I'm not

883
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 5: saying that these people are innocent and guilty, but there's

884
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 5: a lot of a lot of cases that are not

885
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 5: celebrity cases I've seen with men like the regular people

886
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 5: out there who are now sex offenders, who are now

887
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 5: had to go behind bars for something that.

888
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 3: Could have been not perceived that way.

889
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 5: You know, people who were statutory rapists because oh I

890
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 5: was and this is a different topic, but you know

891
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 5: I was nineteen or was twenty in the girl was

892
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 5: sixteen or whatever, fifteen where the age is and technically

893
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 5: nineteen fifteen, y'all still teenagers technically, but like tricky, Yeah,

894
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 5: but like I know people who have like now you

895
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 5: have us now you have to as a sex offender

896
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 5: because I was nineteen having sex with a fifteen year

897
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 5: old And I know people's I know that's wrong. I'm

898
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,240
Speaker 5: not saying that it's right, but you know, fifty nineteen fifty,

899
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:02,919
Speaker 5: not before your eight difference.

900
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think age difference looks different depending

901
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: on the agents too, Right, And so where we're at now,

902
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 1: I kind of want to get to the future where

903
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 1: we see us going, right, because we had the Me

904
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 1: Too movement, because now, unfortunately there are women out here

905
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 1: weaponizing the ability to charge and sue and go to

906
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 1: court on these on these acts. Jason, you found some

907
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,799
Speaker 1: context from a un LV legal scholar that says that

908
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: there is now backlash from the me too movement. Do

909
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: you want to like kind of give some context to that.

910
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, I wanted to read this passage because it's it's

911
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 4: talking about some of the things that you're both mentioning

912
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 4: right now about like the blurred lines and the idea

913
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,760
Speaker 4: of things being tricky. And so this woman wrote this piece,

914
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 4: it's about it. She's a legal scholar, so set in

915
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 4: law practices, right, So there's there's a lot of it's

916
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 4: built around this idea that women are not getting opportunity

917
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 4: because men will not mentor them, because men don't want

918
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 4: to go to dinner with them or be in conference

919
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 4: rooms with them alone, right, because.

920
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 7: They're worried about topic.

921
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 4: Right, So they're worried about things that may happen, Right,

922
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 4: And so she says, right, we cannot let the fears

923
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 4: of the me too movement and false claims override the

924
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 4: important findings of this report or lead to an entrenchment

925
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:27,800
Speaker 4: that will deprive female attornings of rights.

926
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:31,280
Speaker 7: Right, Like I said, this is about a legal study.

927
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:32,839
Speaker 4: But this is the part that I wanted to read

928
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 4: that I think is applicable to this conversation. And so

929
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 4: then she says, but what about the men's concerns that

930
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 4: they will falsely they will be falsely accused of sexual

931
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 4: harassment to the detriment of their reputations. Are these concerns

932
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 4: simply a backlash a power play, or are the men's

933
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 4: concerns legitimate?

934
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 7: That men may have the.

935
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 4: Opportunity to avoid working with female lawyers without harming their

936
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:59,319
Speaker 4: own trajectories demonstrates that men, not their female compounds, still

937
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,839
Speaker 4: have significantly more power than the women have. But nonetheless,

938
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 4: it appears that these men do not feel powerful because

939
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:09,880
Speaker 4: of popular perceptions. Many are concerned that they will be

940
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 4: falsely accused. But the evidence of false accusations is sparse,

941
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:17,320
Speaker 4: and the rate of false accusations versus the sexual miscontent

942
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 4: women bear make the.

943
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 7: Oh, hold on not that part.

944
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 4: So here's the part I one to hear men who

945
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 4: fear false reports may be reacting to a confusion concerning

946
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 4: what is actually sexual harassment.

947
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 7: Oh, that's what I wanted to answer.

948
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: So so story time and this is public knowledge, and

949
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 1: this was a conversation in going back to black women

950
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 1: and the conversation around it. So in twenty twenty, I

951
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 1: signed to the Joe Abouten network.

952
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 3: It was me and two other co hosts.

953
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 1: Right seventeen episodes in from a conversation that happened on Mike,

954
00:48:55,440 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 1: she claimed sexual harassment in the workplace. Now, clearly it's

955
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 1: tough to distinguish that in a podcast setting on a

956
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:07,320
Speaker 1: mic where we don't have hr all the things, you

957
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:07,879
Speaker 1: know what I mean.

958
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 3: So we go down essentially a huge.

959
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 1: Rabbit hole during this because me and the other co

960
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 1: hosts chose to stay on the network, and so there

961
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 1: became a huge isolation and attack from black women for

962
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 1: us choosing to stay on that network. And at the time,

963
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 1: it was about growing this brand that was my IP,

964
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 1: which is why I was able to walk away with

965
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 1: it when we left the network, Like there was a

966
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:39,239
Speaker 1: lot of power.

967
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 3: In what I was creating, and I enjoyed what I

968
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 3: was creating.

969
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 1: So and Also, I was present during the interaction and

970
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 1: had different thoughts on what happened because again, blurret lines

971
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 1: of what constituates sexual harassment and what may not. But

972
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 1: I'm not here to tell anyone how they feel is

973
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 1: right or wrong either. I didn't really pick sides. I

974
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 1: just chose to Okay, you're gone, I'm gonna stay here.

975
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: And the conversation after that was how the fuck and

976
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:10,280
Speaker 1: why the fuck would I say?

977
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 3: And I said, well, what do you want me to do?

978
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 1: Because at the at the time as well, some pass

979
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:20,759
Speaker 1: clip from Brilliant Idiots went viral about Charlemagne.

980
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 3: I'm on the Black Effect Network.

981
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: There was something around joking with Spanish flyfe and again times,

982
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:28,799
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, we can talk about we

983
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,360
Speaker 1: can do that all day. And so I was literally

984
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 1: having this not only internal battle, but alternal conversations. An

985
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: alternal may not be.

986
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:38,360
Speaker 3: A word, but stick with me here.

987
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:44,360
Speaker 1: Whatever a bitch alternal we're talking about, you know what

988
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 1: I mean.

989
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,720
Speaker 3: But the conversation was, well, then what am I supposed

990
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:49,360
Speaker 3: to do in these work environments?

991
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 1: If at any given point a man may have made

992
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,760
Speaker 1: a woman feel uncomfortable, a man may have done something

993
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 1: and do you know what the number one response was

994
00:50:57,960 --> 00:50:59,359
Speaker 1: from women.

995
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 3: Both black and queer, type, well, why do you have

996
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 3: to work with men? The conversation literally.

997
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 1: Was that it wasn't giving any forgiveness, any grace, any

998
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: ability to see a man as anything but a monster

999
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:18,719
Speaker 1: who would eventually perpetrate or violate another woman. It was

1000
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:21,439
Speaker 1: just like, there's a lot of women owned companies out there.

1001
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 1: You're a woman, start your own network, and the conversation was,

1002
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 1: you don't need to work with men. And I literally

1003
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: could not see how that was the logical response. And

1004
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 1: so when articles like this are now being written, when

1005
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 1: I'm having conversations with friends, or when a nigga like

1006
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,879
Speaker 1: Rick Ross is going on the radio admitting to not

1007
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 1: wanting to have female artists under his label because he

1008
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 1: might want to fuck him and he doesn't want to

1009
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 1: blur the lines. When we had people like Joy Taylor

1010
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 1: expressing that, yeah, I had relations with niggas in my company,

1011
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:58,880
Speaker 1: and now there's a whole lawsuit around it. Unfortunately, the

1012
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 1: answer is not that men and women cannot coexist in

1013
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 1: a work environment.

1014
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 3: It's just not.

1015
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 1: But I don't blame men right now for fearing I

1016
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 1: don't either that at all, you don't either like what

1017
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:14,799
Speaker 1: would be?

1018
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 2: What?

1019
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 3: What? What would have been if we were speaking at

1020
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 3: that moment and you were not in your head.

1021
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:22,839
Speaker 1: So I'm sure it came across your timeline of all

1022
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 1: the things that happened, what would have been your advice

1023
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 1: to me or any woman that may or may not

1024
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 1: have been going through the same thing like in that

1025
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 1: present time?

1026
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 5: How do you answer what should have been done? So unfortunately,

1027
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 5: probably at that time I probably would have been like,

1028
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:40,439
Speaker 5: oh why why are you there?

1029
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 3: Too? Okay?

1030
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 5: But since then this is why, this is why I

1031
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,880
Speaker 5: think women should have platonic male friends. Okay, so I

1032
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,920
Speaker 5: have a lot of platonic male friends now right whom

1033
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 5: where I'm able to hear men's opinions, because if you

1034
00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 5: just surround yourself with women all the time, you hear

1035
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 5: pretty much the same it's an echo chamber, child, Yeah,

1036
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:05,360
Speaker 5: the same talking points pretty much. And then you started, let's.

1037
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:06,959
Speaker 3: See, friends would have been just like me who thinks

1038
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:07,800
Speaker 3: out side of the box.

1039
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 5: And if you and most people don't, it's group things, right,

1040
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 5: And so then you're gonna start to think, oh, this

1041
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 5: is right, this is what I hear all the time,

1042
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:15,760
Speaker 5: Oh this is right? This is what this is what's

1043
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 5: being repeat to me in my circles. It's not until

1044
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 5: you talk to other people who are different from you culturally, gender, religion,

1045
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 5: all the things that you learn, Oh okay, maybe my

1046
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:29,320
Speaker 5: way of thinking is cute.

1047
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 3: Right. And so by having male friends, like real platonic

1048
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 3: male friends who were smarter than me, some have different

1049
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 3: experiences than me, some who are married, some who were single,

1050
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 3: I'm learning like, oh okay. I was like, oh okay,

1051
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:44,319
Speaker 3: I get it.

1052
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:46,319
Speaker 5: Maybe you know how I think it's not the only

1053
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 5: way to think, and their other options.

1054
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:53,240
Speaker 1: And I think it does nothing but limit our ability

1055
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 1: to be in safe spaces. If we're not allowing ourselves

1056
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 1: to view men that can change that can learn so

1057
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 1: the same way.

1058
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:01,839
Speaker 3: Right.

1059
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 1: I recently shared a story about being stealthed. When it happened,

1060
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 1: there wasn't even a word for it. When I learned

1061
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: the word, I was like, oh shit, this is happening.

1062
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:14,799
Speaker 1: These conversations are now being had to where men can

1063
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:17,799
Speaker 1: understand that what they were doing was a violation. And

1064
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 1: so if we're learning about our own traumas and instances

1065
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 1: through educating by language being broader and us having more

1066
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 1: platforms to have these conversations.

1067
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 3: There has to.

1068
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 1: Be an allowance for men to do the same. Consent

1069
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 1: is another word that we are all still trying to

1070
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:38,240
Speaker 1: fucking figure out, which is crazy.

1071
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:38,800
Speaker 3: Change.

1072
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 1: It changes, It's literally changed. And I want to add

1073
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,760
Speaker 1: some of the things just so that you guys are familiar,

1074
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:47,919
Speaker 1: and Jason, if you could look these up real quick,

1075
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 1: because you're a journalist and I want to get the

1076
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:55,320
Speaker 1: dates right. I recently saw this woman talking to Candice Owens.

1077
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 1: Do you know that there was just a law that

1078
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 1: was passed in nineteen ninety three that it was actually

1079
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 1: crime and illegal to beat your wife. That may sound crazy,

1080
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 1: but if y'all know a little further back, there used

1081
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 1: to be a law that said you couldn't rape your wife.

1082
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 1: That is an actual thing. They used to claim that

1083
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 1: if you were in a committed marriage, that the man

1084
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 1: could not have at all any ability to sexually assault

1085
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 1: his wife. And so there was no way for even

1086
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:31,800
Speaker 1: wives at the time to I see you over there looking,

1087
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:32,359
Speaker 1: did you.

1088
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 4: Get the so the rape one in all fifty states

1089
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:40,959
Speaker 4: it was. It was decriminalized July fifth, nineteen ninety three

1090
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 4: that I was born.

1091
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:47,400
Speaker 3: Prior to that, we were still we were still born.

1092
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:50,880
Speaker 1: We were born during a time where you could not

1093
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 1: be criminalized for raping or beating your goddamn wife.

1094
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 4: And that same act was Violence against Women Act that

1095
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:03,279
Speaker 4: that same one had the three it became illegal in

1096
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 4: all fifty states ninety three.

1097
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 1: I mean I was two or three, but we were

1098
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:12,799
Speaker 1: born at a time where that wasn't a crime. And

1099
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 1: so when we're talking about being millennials and in the

1100
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:19,399
Speaker 1: space of women finally gaining power, maybe we're not talking

1101
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:22,359
Speaker 1: about voting rights anymore. We're literally talking about the rights

1102
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 1: to even be able to express and tell and have

1103
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:28,879
Speaker 1: any viable, like like.

1104
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:31,720
Speaker 3: Way to receive justice.

1105
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:35,880
Speaker 1: Because I'm saying that this happened, and so the conversation

1106
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 1: about well, why did it take so long for you

1107
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:41,920
Speaker 1: to come out, and well why didn't you say something early?

1108
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:44,239
Speaker 3: And well why are you just now?

1109
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:46,640
Speaker 1: It's like, bro, do y'all not see that there there's

1110
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:49,399
Speaker 1: literal laws that there were certain states that a woman

1111
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 1: could not even speak up for it. And so again

1112
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:57,440
Speaker 1: back to being sexually liberated, it's almost it's almost frustrating

1113
00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:00,040
Speaker 1: to me that women don't see how it can be

1114
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:04,360
Speaker 1: empowering and as men, if you have a mom, a sister,

1115
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 1: a daughter. How you don't want a woman to be

1116
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:09,440
Speaker 1: able to have a voice to speak out about her mistreatment?

1117
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 5: Back to uh to black women being my biggest haters?

1118
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:17,360
Speaker 5: Uh huh, Right, so we said we don't see it.

1119
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 3: We don't. We women don't really.

1120
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 5: See uh, sexual liberation as a thing that should be

1121
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 5: talked about, not openly.

1122
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:28,760
Speaker 3: I feel, as a whole in general, how do we

1123
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 3: learn if we're not speaking about it openly?

1124
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 5: They want you to learn, you know, with your friends,

1125
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 5: you know, quietly in the corner.

1126
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:38,959
Speaker 1: They want you to learn with the men that also

1127
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 1: don't want you to be sexually liberated.

1128
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 3: So how are you supposed to get to that place?

1129
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 3: But I don't, I don't know. I don't I don't

1130
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 3: even have we don't. We don't say that.

1131
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 5: But like I will say this though, like in this

1132
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 5: in just my my life, in my in my career,

1133
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 5: like I don't really because I don't consider myself a

1134
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 5: sex educator.

1135
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:58,560
Speaker 3: All right, this is just not okay, I am a

1136
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 3: I U. I don't know. I write about sex, I

1137
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 3: talk about it whatever you want to call that. Oh yeah,

1138
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 3: I don't like the sexpert title. I don't.

1139
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 1: I don't want that because even with the book, right

1140
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 1: with with my experience, it's a lived experience. But I'm

1141
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 1: no expert. And every chapter that I wrote is still continuing.

1142
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:23,680
Speaker 1: Nothing is even though each chapter in it with a.

1143
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 3: Period, it ain't period.

1144
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 1: Like I'm still navigating all of those different things within

1145
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 1: my life. So I'm no expert on it. And what's

1146
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 1: crazy is in terms of sex, because it's so nuanced,

1147
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 1: because it's ever changing, even within the laws, I don't

1148
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 1: think anyone is really an expert at it now. There's

1149
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:46,080
Speaker 1: not a real blueprint to how to navigate anyone any

1150
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:48,560
Speaker 1: one particular is like what makes me come, don't make

1151
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 1: you come?

1152
00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 3: Period? It is different. And like I just put the

1153
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:54,960
Speaker 3: terms s experts. I had to put something because I

1154
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 3: like sexual health exper Well it's still out.

1155
00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:02,240
Speaker 5: Of an expert something, okay, like oh cool, that's why

1156
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:05,480
Speaker 5: I'm there. But I will say, like in terms of

1157
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 5: like black women, so there are a lot of And

1158
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 5: I had this conversation with somebody else who is a

1159
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:13,480
Speaker 5: buddying she's a sex educator expert of sorts, okay, and

1160
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 5: she was like she went to a conference, a very

1161
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 5: well known conference for sex therapists and educators and all

1162
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 5: that stuff, and she's and she was like, she doesn't

1163
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 5: really feel what's the word looking for? She doesn't feel

1164
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 5: not seen, she doesn't feel like she belongs. Why because

1165
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 5: and this is the black woman, And she said, because

1166
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:38,920
Speaker 5: other black women feel like that. They're because they're more

1167
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 5: educated than her, Like because I have a PhD. Or

1168
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 5: because I am a therapist and I have my own practice,

1169
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 5: or because I've been doing this for twenty years. You

1170
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:50,440
Speaker 5: know that, and you just because she she she has

1171
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:53,280
Speaker 5: she got her certificate from like a certification program for something,

1172
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 5: which still it teaches you basics and teaches you about

1173
00:59:56,680 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 5: sexual sexual health, teaching you about a sex anatomy and

1174
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:04,440
Speaker 5: all that stuff. So she is educated. But because it

1175
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 5: didn't come from a school or because you have a PhD,

1176
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:08,120
Speaker 5: they feel like she.

1177
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 1: I had the conversation with Shambouti. A part of her

1178
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 1: going to get her license and a part of her

1179
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 1: even getting married.

1180
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 3: She said, how am I here giving relationship advice? And

1181
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:19,640
Speaker 3: I'm not married?

1182
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 1: And so a part of her going to school and

1183
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:25,920
Speaker 1: doing those things is to be seen as a professional,

1184
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:28,920
Speaker 1: which is why weezy and I I try to not

1185
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:31,040
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna put an expert on me, but the

1186
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:33,560
Speaker 1: fact that I feel like I've done just as much

1187
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:38,320
Speaker 1: help to the community in educating and giving people power

1188
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:40,160
Speaker 1: then anybody would have got damn PhD.

1189
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 5: And Shannon I had a countries before too, because she

1190
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 5: was like I was on her podcast years two, three

1191
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:47,400
Speaker 5: years ago and we were talking about and she was

1192
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 5: at times she was in the process of getting her stuff,

1193
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,120
Speaker 5: and she explained why she was doing it. I was like, Uh,

1194
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 5: maybe I'll do it. I'm not but after thinking about it,

1195
01:00:56,120 --> 01:01:01,040
Speaker 5: but I get it. People feel like because and and

1196
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:03,920
Speaker 5: the people are black women, feel like, oh, I know

1197
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:06,360
Speaker 5: for me, just for me. When I first came onto

1198
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:10,160
Speaker 5: the scene, people felt like, uh, what you mean?

1199
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 3: How are you? How are you getting more followers than me?

1200
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 3: How are you getting different gigs than me? How are you?

1201
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 3: How are you writing for this magazine? How are you

1202
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 3: doing that?

1203
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 1: In comparison is the Thief and Joe Bin Yo goddamn

1204
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 1: business right, how are you doing this?

1205
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 5: How are you doing that? And how come I'm not

1206
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 5: doing this. I've been out here longer, I have the degrees,

1207
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 5: and she is just someone who they feel like just

1208
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:33,959
Speaker 5: started yesterday.

1209
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:39,520
Speaker 1: And I think I think for me being someone who

1210
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 1: lives in empowering others. It's been unfortunate to feel so unempowered.

1211
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 1: I was having a conversation with Candia Essence as well,

1212
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:51,920
Speaker 1: and I was just telling her like, I feel like

1213
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 1: I'm wearing the scarlet letter because like we did a

1214
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:58,440
Speaker 1: rebrand and now brands are still like, you know, even

1215
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:00,960
Speaker 1: though you're a New York Times bestseller, your book got

1216
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:04,800
Speaker 1: the word sex in it, sexual exploration? Is you know,

1217
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:08,360
Speaker 1: to have to exist with this scarlet letter for wanting

1218
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:12,680
Speaker 1: to lead an empowered movement. It was crazy because she

1219
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:15,160
Speaker 1: has Grammys, she has all these things, and she was like,

1220
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 1: oh girl. As soon as I candy coat of you know,

1221
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 1: the bedroom stuff, and she was like, you know, she

1222
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:24,640
Speaker 1: toured the dungeon. Those things we couldn't even talk about

1223
01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:29,320
Speaker 1: with her because it's sex related. And she was like,

1224
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:32,440
Speaker 1: oh girl, not until I started doing the Broadway, am

1225
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:35,200
Speaker 1: I even now being invited to certain She was like,

1226
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:39,680
Speaker 1: NAACP wasn't trying to see a bitch for being sexually liberated.

1227
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:42,200
Speaker 1: And I'm like, this is so much a part of

1228
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:46,600
Speaker 1: our history because we weren't allowed to be, because we

1229
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:50,080
Speaker 1: were used for our bodies, because even as black men,

1230
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 1: they were seen as bulls essentially, or they were seen

1231
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 1: superior because of what they had between their legs. Everything

1232
01:02:56,840 --> 01:03:01,440
Speaker 1: about our entire existence has been sexualized, and in twenty

1233
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:04,439
Speaker 1: twenty five, it's something that we have to hide from.

1234
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 1: It's something that we can't like like stand on it.

1235
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:15,920
Speaker 1: It's so so stressful, it is and uninspiring and unempowering

1236
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:19,919
Speaker 1: and draining to feel like the work we're doing eight

1237
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 1: years in, Baby, I'm just gonna have to continue wearing

1238
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 1: the scarlet letter because.

1239
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:25,200
Speaker 3: That's what I'm doing.

1240
01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 5: I've just I'm just like, Okay, this is my this

1241
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:28,959
Speaker 5: is my lot in life.

1242
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:30,280
Speaker 3: I've come to accept it.

1243
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 5: To accept it, I don't even with like people who

1244
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:37,000
Speaker 5: have like if you ever going to my Instagram, like

1245
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:39,120
Speaker 5: I really, I don't even I don't sell any toys

1246
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:39,400
Speaker 5: on there.

1247
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:40,080
Speaker 3: I don't talk.

1248
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 5: About sex toys because Instagram will take it down. People

1249
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 5: can you can even have a website that has toy

1250
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:49,000
Speaker 5: and have like a payment processing system because they take

1251
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:49,360
Speaker 5: it off.

1252
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:51,480
Speaker 3: Oh wow, they equate it to like prostitution.

1253
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:57,520
Speaker 5: And so it's just one hurdle atter, another hurdle atter,

1254
01:03:57,520 --> 01:04:01,200
Speaker 5: another hurdle. So because I have some some young lady

1255
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:03,400
Speaker 5: reach out to me and she's like, well, how what

1256
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:05,560
Speaker 5: are your tips? Because I'm trying this and keep getting

1257
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:07,720
Speaker 5: blocked and I'm keep getting block blocked, and I was like,

1258
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:08,720
Speaker 5: I don't.

1259
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 3: Already had no tips. You just have to keep trying

1260
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 3: because it happens to everybody. It's just frustrating.

1261
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:15,960
Speaker 1: In the news, though, I want to get into the

1262
01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:18,720
Speaker 1: last segment because we talked about a little bit of

1263
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:23,040
Speaker 1: the future. We talked about how we've existed as essentially

1264
01:04:23,080 --> 01:04:26,160
Speaker 1: millennials and being born during the times where certain laws

1265
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:27,200
Speaker 1: even still existed.

1266
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:31,160
Speaker 3: But gen Z, they're saying, are having less sex. I

1267
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 3: can see that.

1268
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:35,400
Speaker 1: But yet gen Z are also open to more non

1269
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:39,080
Speaker 1: traditional ways of having relationships as well. So when we

1270
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:42,800
Speaker 1: think of this younger generation coming up, do you think

1271
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:48,360
Speaker 1: it's going to be a more healthy sexual exploration experience

1272
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:50,800
Speaker 1: or do you feel like they're going to reach a

1273
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:53,320
Speaker 1: lot of the same kind of obstacles and herders that

1274
01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:54,240
Speaker 1: we've had to overcome.

1275
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:58,040
Speaker 5: Notin'll be a lot healthier because they are also already

1276
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:04,520
Speaker 5: very opened of different sexuality, different gender identities. You know,

1277
01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:07,920
Speaker 5: they are so open and they are into doing all

1278
01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:10,360
Speaker 5: the things and they're not shame about there's no shame

1279
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:12,760
Speaker 5: with them. Like my generation. I say, my generation is

1280
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:14,760
Speaker 5: the first generation that talking about something dick out.

1281
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:19,640
Speaker 3: Loud and period. Right, yeah, the person say we love

1282
01:05:19,680 --> 01:05:20,240
Speaker 3: sucking day.

1283
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know our mothers No, I don't even know

1284
01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:25,160
Speaker 5: if my mother even had dick in her mouth.

1285
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:27,240
Speaker 3: She did, but she didn't talk about it.

1286
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:30,040
Speaker 5: You never heard he never heard the same, right, never

1287
01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:33,040
Speaker 5: had her even mentioned word penis mouth together in the sentence.

1288
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:36,960
Speaker 5: So like you know, so like this next generation, they

1289
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:40,160
Speaker 5: are open to trying all the things. They're like our

1290
01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:44,560
Speaker 5: generation we label everything is gay, and our generation, yeah, everything's.

1291
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:47,760
Speaker 3: Gay, like that's it's not gay, it's not. But their

1292
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:49,520
Speaker 3: generation if it's gay or not, that even care.

1293
01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:53,560
Speaker 1: They don't care the labels are being I want to

1294
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:56,800
Speaker 1: read something from the New Yorker, and it may actually

1295
01:05:56,800 --> 01:06:00,120
Speaker 1: be why so if you think about what you just that.

1296
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:01,800
Speaker 3: You didn't even know your mom was having sex.

1297
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:05,680
Speaker 1: Right, so you know the idea of if someone tells

1298
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:06,800
Speaker 1: you not to touch the red.

1299
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:08,560
Speaker 3: Button, what do you want to do touch the red button?

1300
01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:12,320
Speaker 1: So they're saying, and this is part the New Yorker,

1301
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:15,240
Speaker 1: that casual sex can be arranged as efficiently as a

1302
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:18,439
Speaker 1: burrita delivery from door Dash and so because it comes

1303
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:23,680
Speaker 1: across as something that's more accessible, that's more not only accessible,

1304
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 1: but acceptable, casual sex, finding partners online, all the things.

1305
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:32,240
Speaker 1: It's so easy and free. At us, it's there, Okay,

1306
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:34,960
Speaker 1: you don't need you know what I mean? As for us,

1307
01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:38,920
Speaker 1: there was almost this thing of being secretive of doing

1308
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:41,439
Speaker 1: something that you didn't want people to find out about

1309
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:44,120
Speaker 1: the same maybe excitement that men get from cheating.

1310
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:45,920
Speaker 3: I don't know, but you know.

1311
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:48,160
Speaker 1: What I mean, Like there was excitement about finally being

1312
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:50,880
Speaker 1: able to do something that they said was so terrible.

1313
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:54,400
Speaker 1: And for gen Z, we're now speaking about pleasure in

1314
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:56,840
Speaker 1: a way that it's like, Okay, I can have it

1315
01:06:56,880 --> 01:07:00,440
Speaker 1: and enjoy it, kind of like an espresso martini. I'll

1316
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:02,880
Speaker 1: have it when I wanted, don't need it when I don't.

1317
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:05,959
Speaker 3: You know, that means we're doing our job. I feel

1318
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:08,680
Speaker 3: like I think we're helping them a little bit. Jason.

1319
01:07:08,720 --> 01:07:10,680
Speaker 3: From these articles.

1320
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:12,680
Speaker 1: I know that there was quite a few about why

1321
01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:16,200
Speaker 1: gen Z were having less sex. Did you see any

1322
01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:19,080
Speaker 1: other dynamic that made it to why they weren't having

1323
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:19,600
Speaker 1: so much?

1324
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:23,040
Speaker 4: There was a lot that was saying they're better at

1325
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:27,760
Speaker 4: setting healthy boundaries, that came up articles.

1326
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:30,520
Speaker 1: That that's true, but we weren't talking because we ain't

1327
01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:32,160
Speaker 1: have podcasts like mine to listen to.

1328
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:36,640
Speaker 3: Our parents, and they didn't talk to us about sex, and.

1329
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:39,760
Speaker 5: We solved their fucked up relationship and we're like, okay, Like.

1330
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:41,880
Speaker 1: And then sex Thatt in high school just said don't

1331
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:44,240
Speaker 1: have sex or you're gonna get pregnant or die. Yeah,

1332
01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:46,240
Speaker 1: like it was one of the other. And so there

1333
01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:50,160
Speaker 1: was never a conversation around pleasure. There was never conversation

1334
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:54,760
Speaker 1: with women about how to say no because we didn't

1335
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:59,480
Speaker 1: want to. Like there those weren't having being had. So then,

1336
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:03,680
Speaker 1: in terms of the revolution of sexual liberation, I want

1337
01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:05,240
Speaker 1: to ask you, Ashley, before we get out of here,

1338
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:10,280
Speaker 1: are we heading in a direction that we may actually

1339
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 1: be able to celebrate sexual liberation or do you feel

1340
01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:18,000
Speaker 1: like we'll always be under the guise of the patriarchy

1341
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:23,479
Speaker 1: as women first and then black women second, Because I

1342
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:26,320
Speaker 1: think there is a difference between between the two.

1343
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:31,000
Speaker 3: So in our lifetime at least, okay, the hopeful person,

1344
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:33,639
Speaker 3: the version of me, the hope of version.

1345
01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:37,120
Speaker 5: Says that yes, But I don't know, I don't know

1346
01:08:37,160 --> 01:08:38,280
Speaker 5: if it'll be our lifetime.

1347
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:40,960
Speaker 3: I think it might be like our children and grandchildren.

1348
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:44,320
Speaker 3: Because our kids are they're already kind of there. I

1349
01:08:44,320 --> 01:08:46,080
Speaker 3: think it's gonna take a while. It's gonna take a while.

1350
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:47,519
Speaker 3: It's gonna take fifty years.

1351
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:53,679
Speaker 1: Maybe you think another fifty years a woman's sexual sexual

1352
01:08:53,720 --> 01:08:57,040
Speaker 1: liberation doesn't keep her from having to wear a scarlet letter.

1353
01:08:57,240 --> 01:09:01,520
Speaker 5: Yes, I think the kids, like the high schools, college kids.

1354
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:03,960
Speaker 1: They're gonna have to be like and then their kids will.

1355
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:07,639
Speaker 1: I think they're already leading and starting. Okay, so once

1356
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:10,599
Speaker 1: they get grown, grown, like thirty, then I think it'll

1357
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:13,960
Speaker 1: be by the time i'll be say so, you know so, then.

1358
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:17,400
Speaker 3: Maybe in our life, so maybe a lifetime. Do you agree, Jason?

1359
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:22,920
Speaker 3: I know a king is over there too, But do.

1360
01:09:22,960 --> 01:09:28,720
Speaker 1: Y'all believe that that you will in your lives be

1361
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:33,240
Speaker 1: able to see women be celebrated for their their sexual exploration.

1362
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:35,760
Speaker 1: And I only ask y'all that too because it's hip

1363
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:40,599
Speaker 1: hop heads. We saw the women of hip hop kind

1364
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:43,000
Speaker 1: of be torn down and almost tried to be a

1365
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:47,240
Speaker 1: raise for their celebration of sexual liberation, which looked like

1366
01:09:47,280 --> 01:09:48,600
Speaker 1: removing the male gaze.

1367
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:49,920
Speaker 3: It was the empowerment of us.

1368
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:52,680
Speaker 1: The music was for us, and I think from an

1369
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:59,479
Speaker 1: even musical standpoint that has been removed because the feedback

1370
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:01,559
Speaker 1: from it was, well, this is what are y'all teaching

1371
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:06,080
Speaker 1: the youth. This ain't liberating, this is ruining our community.

1372
01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:10,559
Speaker 1: I want to ask y'all, y'alls thoughts on women being

1373
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:12,920
Speaker 1: able to express themselves and actually be celebrated.

1374
01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:15,599
Speaker 7: Yeah, King, you're gonna go, King.

1375
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:19,880
Speaker 2: I'll go, or I'll say, I don't think so. I

1376
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:22,320
Speaker 2: think it's gonna well not, you don't think what.

1377
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:27,080
Speaker 8: I don't think that women will be celebrated universally. I

1378
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:28,080
Speaker 8: think in community.

1379
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:28,680
Speaker 7: But no, no, no, no.

1380
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:31,080
Speaker 1: First off, we know the Middle East over there ain't

1381
01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:32,040
Speaker 1: having none of this ship.

1382
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:36,360
Speaker 3: They can always show their eyes. So we're talking about

1383
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:37,040
Speaker 3: us over here.

1384
01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:39,760
Speaker 8: The no, no, no, we got a lot, We had

1385
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:41,160
Speaker 8: a lot of work to do and now we got

1386
01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:42,800
Speaker 8: a lot of more work to do. You feel like

1387
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:46,200
Speaker 8: so you feel like we've made pockets. Yes, we gotta

1388
01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:49,599
Speaker 8: push pockets. But it all it's all about continuum, right.

1389
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:52,680
Speaker 8: This is why things that you say, things that other

1390
01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 8: women say, things that actually says right.

1391
01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:57,280
Speaker 2: Hopefully five years, ten years.

1392
01:10:57,200 --> 01:11:00,799
Speaker 8: When the ones behind you, you know, get this content,

1393
01:11:00,840 --> 01:11:04,680
Speaker 8: this audio and they able to listen and unpack and

1394
01:11:05,320 --> 01:11:08,720
Speaker 8: kind of dig into the philosophies of it, maybe that

1395
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:13,920
Speaker 8: they can continue the narrative, so to speak. So I

1396
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:17,720
Speaker 8: don't know, I'm not confident that you know overall. No,

1397
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:22,360
Speaker 8: I think that in certain areas in our culture and community, yes,

1398
01:11:22,840 --> 01:11:23,600
Speaker 8: you'll get that.

1399
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:27,800
Speaker 1: I agree with you, especially just again we talk about

1400
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:29,839
Speaker 1: the outrage and the response from a lot of people,

1401
01:11:30,120 --> 01:11:33,000
Speaker 1: and for me, the work has to be done because men,

1402
01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:35,840
Speaker 1: the ones probably in their mom's basements using the Wi

1403
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:38,080
Speaker 1: Fi that they don't pay for, when they get into

1404
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:41,160
Speaker 1: the comment sections of things, when they spew their hate

1405
01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:45,280
Speaker 1: and negativity towards women owning their own autonomy. That's where

1406
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:47,559
Speaker 1: I see so much work having to be done because

1407
01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:51,320
Speaker 1: outside of the actual people with platforms, the people consuming

1408
01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:55,639
Speaker 1: the content are loud on the Internet about being upset

1409
01:11:55,880 --> 01:12:01,320
Speaker 1: about us speaking out for ourselves, showing people that there's

1410
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:02,920
Speaker 1: another way to receive pleasure.

1411
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:04,960
Speaker 3: And so I am with you, like, I don't think

1412
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:05,679
Speaker 3: it's gonna happen.

1413
01:12:06,280 --> 01:12:08,559
Speaker 5: I will say, I think like for like the black

1414
01:12:08,600 --> 01:12:11,720
Speaker 5: community though, like I feel like we have a very

1415
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:13,439
Speaker 5: very very very very long.

1416
01:12:13,360 --> 01:12:14,000
Speaker 3: Very long ago.

1417
01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:18,960
Speaker 1: Oh girl moving to Atlanta, We're probably wasn't I just

1418
01:12:19,000 --> 01:12:22,439
Speaker 1: telling you probably ten fifteen years behind New York, like

1419
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:26,800
Speaker 1: like the conservative nature of what you were saying. I

1420
01:12:26,880 --> 01:12:29,960
Speaker 1: was like, I was like, oh wow, I thought I

1421
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:31,880
Speaker 1: was gonna come down here and there was gonna be

1422
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:34,960
Speaker 1: even more black swingers groups and black sex clubs.

1423
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:39,240
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh baby, it's so small down here.

1424
01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:41,919
Speaker 1: And I was just like, oh wow, you're right as

1425
01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:45,360
Speaker 1: a community, we're even it's gonna take us even further,

1426
01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:49,320
Speaker 1: which is why the black women voices right now seem

1427
01:12:49,439 --> 01:12:56,639
Speaker 1: so loud in not supporting this movement of liberation for us. Jason,

1428
01:12:56,680 --> 01:12:58,559
Speaker 1: I wanted you to get your thoughts into before we

1429
01:12:58,600 --> 01:12:59,200
Speaker 1: wrap it up.

1430
01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:01,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was gonna say from that same study that

1431
01:13:01,439 --> 01:13:05,679
Speaker 4: I read earlier, she ended it by saying men must

1432
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:09,200
Speaker 4: respond not only by being not sexist or not harassers,

1433
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:13,360
Speaker 4: they should be capital letters anti sexist. And you know

1434
01:13:13,439 --> 01:13:17,639
Speaker 4: that's obviously like a yeah, it's just it's just such

1435
01:13:17,640 --> 01:13:19,719
Speaker 4: a huge shifting behavior. Because I wrote down what Ashley

1436
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:21,479
Speaker 4: said earlier because it was funny and I thought she

1437
01:13:21,479 --> 01:13:22,320
Speaker 4: should be on T shirt.

1438
01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:25,639
Speaker 7: True, it's like I get how men think, but it's very.

1439
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:28,800
Speaker 4: Stupid and like if you asked me, like, well that

1440
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:31,759
Speaker 4: happened in my lifetime. By the end of my lifetime

1441
01:13:32,479 --> 01:13:34,840
Speaker 4: probably like like not anytime soon. I think it's gonna

1442
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:38,160
Speaker 4: be like by the end of my lifetime. Yeah, like

1443
01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:41,360
Speaker 4: when I'm ninety five, it'll be like finally.

1444
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:43,280
Speaker 2: I die.

1445
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:46,400
Speaker 4: But yeah, I just I just I just think that

1446
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:51,000
Speaker 4: that oh cheap point, like you've been saying, like you know,

1447
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:52,000
Speaker 4: women are your biggest haters.

1448
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:53,880
Speaker 7: Would like, men just have so much shit that they

1449
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:54,160
Speaker 7: have to.

1450
01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:56,880
Speaker 4: Unpack something like this weird and like the weird like

1451
01:13:57,040 --> 01:14:01,160
Speaker 4: puritan bag that they always like go into where it's like,

1452
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:03,439
Speaker 4: you know, they want to shame women for stuff, but

1453
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:05,000
Speaker 4: they go and do the same exact thing.

1454
01:14:05,320 --> 01:14:06,840
Speaker 7: That's a badger honor like until that.

1455
01:14:07,120 --> 01:14:10,000
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because men are whied different and men are

1456
01:14:10,160 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 1: men are hunters, and men like.

1457
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:18,400
Speaker 4: The big wide patriarchy like thing that you say, it's

1458
01:14:18,400 --> 01:14:20,559
Speaker 4: like it's so societal and like to unlock all that

1459
01:14:20,920 --> 01:14:23,840
Speaker 4: and to reverse all that, like that's like generational work.

1460
01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:27,519
Speaker 3: You know, I agree, I agree, I will Ashley. What

1461
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:28,519
Speaker 3: would be your.

1462
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:33,519
Speaker 1: Final thoughts essentially on I would say, maybe, you know what,

1463
01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:37,080
Speaker 1: let's do something here. What would you want to say

1464
01:14:37,120 --> 01:14:41,559
Speaker 1: to black women who go against the work that you

1465
01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:45,040
Speaker 1: and I are currently doing. What would be your thoughts

1466
01:14:45,080 --> 01:14:47,200
Speaker 1: to them if they are listening, if they are women

1467
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:52,200
Speaker 1: who don't believe that we should be platforming conversations around

1468
01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:56,679
Speaker 1: hoeing and telling women to ho longer and save marriage

1469
01:14:56,720 --> 01:15:00,479
Speaker 1: for later, specifically the black women listening who may not

1470
01:15:00,560 --> 01:15:02,960
Speaker 1: be aligned with our messaging, what would be your message

1471
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:03,280
Speaker 1: to them?

1472
01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:08,000
Speaker 5: I think they are against us out of fear, okay,

1473
01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:10,360
Speaker 5: Like it's okay, sis, I don't want your man right

1474
01:15:10,439 --> 01:15:15,519
Speaker 5: like I I feel okay, like it's fear based because

1475
01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:18,719
Speaker 5: what you mean you're telling you're now you're telling my daughters,

1476
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:20,439
Speaker 5: or you're telling people to go out here and have

1477
01:15:20,600 --> 01:15:24,040
Speaker 5: all this sex and then you know, oh, then that

1478
01:15:24,120 --> 01:15:27,360
Speaker 5: means that maybe they feel like their sex is not

1479
01:15:27,439 --> 01:15:29,880
Speaker 5: gonna be good enough, and then maybe your husband's gonna

1480
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:32,040
Speaker 5: leave you for a a bitch you can focus stick better.

1481
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:34,599
Speaker 5: I don't know, but I feel like I really do

1482
01:15:34,640 --> 01:15:38,519
Speaker 5: feel like it is based in fear mm for a

1483
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:42,200
Speaker 5: lot of people, okay, And and there's no need to

1484
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:44,360
Speaker 5: be sis like you kid, there's no need to be there,

1485
01:15:44,439 --> 01:15:46,120
Speaker 5: there's no need to be like the same way I feel.

1486
01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:48,519
Speaker 5: I I feel that same way about people who also

1487
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:53,240
Speaker 5: shame people for having open relationships. That's fear based, Like

1488
01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:54,360
Speaker 5: people like, well, why I wanna do?

1489
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:54,519
Speaker 2: Why?

1490
01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:57,040
Speaker 3: Why do that? Just be single? It's that's crazy. It's

1491
01:15:57,080 --> 01:15:58,439
Speaker 3: fear based. It's fear based.

1492
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:01,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's fear based. I So my thought

1493
01:16:01,120 --> 01:16:06,120
Speaker 5: would be to just broaden our horisons, get you know,

1494
01:16:06,680 --> 01:16:09,240
Speaker 5: talk to people, get more, get education from talk to

1495
01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:11,880
Speaker 5: people who are outside of your circle.

1496
01:16:11,600 --> 01:16:14,920
Speaker 1: I agree, or listen to podcasts like this Yes, or

1497
01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:18,080
Speaker 1: Sex with Ashley or Decisions Decisions.

1498
01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:21,320
Speaker 5: Or something Yes, like, you have to be able to

1499
01:16:21,320 --> 01:16:23,680
Speaker 5: talk to people who don't have the same beliefs to you,

1500
01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:26,040
Speaker 5: to have a deeper understanding why people are the way

1501
01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:26,360
Speaker 5: they are.

1502
01:16:26,479 --> 01:16:29,799
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and that's what this god damn podcast is about. Ashley,

1503
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:33,280
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me today. I hope

1504
01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:36,439
Speaker 1: that you guys really took in this conversation and you

1505
01:16:36,479 --> 01:16:38,839
Speaker 1: take it to the group chat, you take it online,

1506
01:16:40,120 --> 01:16:42,559
Speaker 1: and you really again push yourself to listen to more

1507
01:16:42,600 --> 01:16:45,000
Speaker 1: conversations to understand.

1508
01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:49,280
Speaker 3: The nuance because nuance exists. Again, there's two truths, and

1509
01:16:49,360 --> 01:16:53,439
Speaker 3: to just open your ears to understanding more. Y'all.

1510
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:58,519
Speaker 1: This is selective ignorance where curiosity lives controversy thrives and

1511
01:16:58,640 --> 01:16:59,960
Speaker 1: conversations matter.

1512
01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:02,559
Speaker 3: See y'all next week.

1513
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:08,640
Speaker 1: Selective Ignorance a production of the Blackfec podcast Network. For

1514
01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:13,280
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1515
01:17:13,360 --> 01:17:15,320
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

1516
01:17:15,439 --> 01:17:17,720
Speaker 4: Thanks for tuning in the Selective Ignorance of Mandy B.

1517
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:20,880
Speaker 4: Selective Ignorance. It's executive produced to buy Mandy B. And

1518
01:17:20,920 --> 01:17:24,320
Speaker 4: it's a Full Court Media studio production with lead producers

1519
01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:25,480
Speaker 4: Jason Mondriguez.

1520
01:17:25,560 --> 01:17:26,880
Speaker 3: That's me and Aaron A.

1521
01:17:27,080 --> 01:17:27,679
Speaker 7: King Howell.

1522
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:30,720
Speaker 4: Now, do us a favor and rate, subscribe, comment, and

1523
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:33,920
Speaker 4: share wherever you get your favorite podcasts, and be sure

1524
01:17:33,960 --> 01:17:38,639
Speaker 4: to follow Selective Ignorance on Instagram at Selective Underscore Ignorance.

1525
01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:40,960
Speaker 4: And of course, if you're not following our hosts Mandy B,

1526
01:17:41,320 --> 01:17:43,479
Speaker 4: make sure you're following her at full Court Pumps.

1527
01:17:43,479 --> 01:17:43,599
Speaker 2: Now.

1528
01:17:43,640 --> 01:17:46,439
Speaker 4: If you want the full video experience of Selective Ignorance,

1529
01:17:46,560 --> 01:17:49,559
Speaker 4: make sure you subscribe to the Patreon It's patreons dot

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Speaker 4: com backslash Selective Ignorance