Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast.
Speaker 1: Today's episode is brought to you by the Fridagg Pro Shop. Today,
Speaker 1: I'm going to talk a little bit about our prints.
Speaker 1: Most of it is my photography. We do fine art
Speaker 1: paper prints, which are beautiful traditional prints. You can get
Speaker 1: those framed or unframed, and then we also do metal prints,
Speaker 1: which are kind of a little bit more unique, one
Speaker 1: of kind vivid colors. Everybody that sees these metal prints
Speaker 1: are kind of in awe of them. And we have
Speaker 1: tons of golf courses photographed up on the site. We
Speaker 1: have some other ones. I'm still trying to get up there,
Speaker 1: it just takes some time. Most recent one that we
Speaker 1: put up was Kiwa Island, the ocean course, so we
Speaker 1: got a bunch of photos from beautiful morning out at
Speaker 1: kia And what we're doing through Sunday of this week,
Speaker 1: which would be through I don't know what would be
Speaker 1: the twenty something twenty second. We are doing twenty percent
Speaker 1: off those Kiawa prints, both paper and metal. So a
Speaker 1: good time to get yours if you've been there and
Speaker 1: want a beautiful print of golf course on an ocean. Anyways,
Speaker 1: today's episode is with Jeff Ogilvie. It's been a little
Speaker 1: while since we chatted. Obviously, it's been a nuts news
Speaker 1: cycle the early part of the year between the USGA
Speaker 1: Patrick Reid and something that I saw that was really
Speaker 1: cool that prompted this chat that I wanted to talk
Speaker 1: with Jeff about was this player series event that Jeff
Speaker 1: hosted in Australia and it is a mixed event, really cool.
Speaker 1: He goes into detail about that, and I think long term,
Speaker 1: this is an event that golf should take a look
Speaker 1: at and think, hey, can we do more of these
Speaker 1: or incorporate some of these maybe in America, Europe other places,
Speaker 1: because it is such a neat event, and I think
Speaker 1: there are would just be a huge interest in it
Speaker 1: on a bigger scale, and hopefully one of these Australian
Speaker 1: ones is televised. It would be neat to see it.
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's televised in Australia, but it'd be great
Speaker 1: to see it televised or stream somewhere that we could
Speaker 1: see it in the United States. Without further ado, here
Speaker 1: is Jeff Ogilby. I miss a green, for example, I'm
Speaker 1: already upset when I find my ball in the bunker
Speaker 1: I'm really upset, and when I find my ball in
Speaker 1: a brid egg Friday egg, the dreaded Frida egg Frida
Speaker 1: egggg Frida egg brid egg, Lie, I'm about ready to
Speaker 1: run off of the Did you have like one teacher
Speaker 1: throughout your career junior gaul for Did you have multiple?
Speaker 1: What was your teaching situation?
Speaker 2: I had a few lessons from a few different guys
Speaker 2: when I was younger, really young, I mean I was
Speaker 2: I think Dad take me, tout me to get some
Speaker 2: lessons before I was ten, sort of eight and nine,
Speaker 2: maybe ten with the local pro at his golf club,
Speaker 2: a guy called Henry Caussele, who was the pro at
Speaker 2: Yariara It's where Dad was a member. And I had
Speaker 2: a couple lessons there and I remember I wrote down
Speaker 2: like the four or five things he gave me, like
Speaker 2: the legs and the strongest thing in the body, and
Speaker 2: there was a couple of well there was three or
Speaker 2: four things, and then I think I got a lesson
Speaker 2: to have Bruce Green, who was the pro Rod Melbourne
Speaker 2: still is still a legend driving around ro Melbourne giving lessons. Yeah,
Speaker 2: been there forever, great player, too, wonderful teacher, old school
Speaker 2: teacher a bit like more like like the Butch Harmond school.
Speaker 2: No video cameraund, no track man. He's just got that
Speaker 2: old school kind of. I just tow it in here
Speaker 2: or move the ball back and he stance and hit
Speaker 2: it hard to day Jeff or some stuff like that.
Speaker 2: But then I kind of as we got into the system,
Speaker 2: like their systems here, so as a good junior golfer
Speaker 2: you sort of get noticed by the State Golf Association
Speaker 2: and the Institute of Sport. And once I kind of
Speaker 2: got into that system. Steve Banner Dale Lynch sort of
Speaker 2: Banny at first, who's coached a lot on to a
Speaker 2: lot of guys who play in the US, and then
Speaker 2: Day Lynch pretty much from about fifteen sixteen onwards all
Speaker 2: the way through.
Speaker 3: So I had a few like different.
Speaker 2: Ones along the way, but then it became Lynchy really
Speaker 2: for most of the time. And he came over with
Speaker 2: he came over regularly with me and Dads and Stevie
Speaker 2: Allen and Great Spence and Charmers and yeah, a few
Speaker 2: different ones.
Speaker 1: But did you ever think about switching once you were
Speaker 1: with Lynch?
Speaker 2: No, So I'm a good I'm a bad student in
Speaker 2: the I think I'm just I don't. I'm very skeptical
Speaker 2: of everything anyone tells, you know, I think I know better,
Speaker 2: you know, which is a whole mark of guys. You
Speaker 2: play on to it generally when you talk to them,
Speaker 2: they all think they know the answers. But I actually
Speaker 2: did think I knew the answers, and I liked Lynchy
Speaker 2: because he helped me.
Speaker 3: Find them my own way, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: He didn't tell me this is the way it is,
Speaker 3: he said.
Speaker 2: He just did very wise about golf, the way he
Speaker 2: spoke about it, you know, very educational. So I never
Speaker 2: even considered anyone else to be honest because I thought
Speaker 2: everything he said was great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I always wonder about that because I feel like
Speaker 1: continuity is like the most important thing, because in reality,
Speaker 1: I feel like most golfers are just usually working on
Speaker 1: the same things over and over again, and if you switch,
Speaker 1: it's just like you're starting from scratch and it could
Speaker 1: get you all all messed up.
Speaker 3: Well, I think.
Speaker 2: It should be a medicine, not a diet, you know,
Speaker 2: Like it should be like going to the doctor. He
Speaker 2: fixes you up, and then you go away and you
Speaker 2: go play again, and then you come back when you
Speaker 2: need the doctor again, whereas they they're a bit like
Speaker 2: chiropractice or something. Not to pick on chiropractice, but like
Speaker 2: once you start going to a golf coach, just like
Speaker 2: we've got to come back next week, you've got to
Speaker 2: come back the week after, you got to come back. Well,
Speaker 2: if you were teaching me, I wouldn't need to come
Speaker 2: back all the time, you know. And I think the
Speaker 2: art of a golf coach is that he teaches the
Speaker 2: golfer how to coach himself. He needs to become redundant.
Speaker 2: And at some point I think that was at least
Speaker 2: my philosophy. And if you look at the best golfers
Speaker 2: of all time, I mean Jack, he barely needed a
Speaker 2: coach by the end.
Speaker 3: I mean Stuart Maiden helped Jones.
Speaker 2: I mean, Hogan did it all himself, so need did
Speaker 2: it all himself, Travino did it all himself. Guys like
Speaker 2: Freddi Kupels kind of did it all himselves. The long
Speaker 2: these long term great balls truckers found their game their way,
Speaker 2: you know, and you can get an advice and stuff
Speaker 2: along the way of how to help, sort of signposts
Speaker 2: if you like, try this, try this, try that, and
Speaker 2: you'll discover it over in that area. But I think
Speaker 2: if you have a guy as ah, well, you're going
Speaker 2: to come back and fix your set up or fix
Speaker 2: your back swing and never going to be any good
Speaker 2: until you do that.
Speaker 3: I think it's missing the point of coaching.
Speaker 2: So it makes sense is going to become self playing
Speaker 2: because when you get out in the third hole and
Speaker 2: it feels bad that day, you can't hang on, let
Speaker 2: me send you a video of swing and tell me
Speaker 2: what I'm doing wrong. I mean, you got to work
Speaker 2: it out today and then on the fourth and then
Speaker 2: and the game is really the art is working it
Speaker 2: out as you go along there. So a great coach
Speaker 2: is someone who teaches someone how to do that.
Speaker 1: And if you get it right, then you'll be infinitely
Speaker 1: more consistent because every day you wake up and you
Speaker 1: feel a little different in being able to figure out
Speaker 1: what isn't quite working in a given day. Will that's
Speaker 1: the lead to more made cuts, more times in contention?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you just you'll you're actually you'll be always polishing
Speaker 2: that skill, that skill of I've got to work it
Speaker 2: out today, how to hit it straight today? You know
Speaker 2: how to hit a good shot right now? That's an
Speaker 2: art to kind of if you feel if you're feeling
Speaker 2: kind of crappy and you wake up feeling weird sometimes
Speaker 2: and you do, You've got to work out how to
Speaker 2: hit it today because no one cares.
Speaker 3: How you if.
Speaker 2: You're swings getting there, you know, I mean, you've got
Speaker 2: to shoot a good score today. And the best golfers
Speaker 2: are the ones or the most consistent goings are the
Speaker 2: best golfers, because some of the best golfers seem to
Speaker 2: be those guys who can like peak for a certain
Speaker 2: week with all their technique work and that.
Speaker 3: But I think the true professional and the art of
Speaker 3: the game.
Speaker 2: Is to be able to hit a good shot right now,
Speaker 2: work it out. And if you don't hit this one good,
Speaker 2: the work out the next one, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: and just repeat that.
Speaker 3: And I think the great coaches.
Speaker 2: Get their players to be more self sufficient, you know,
Speaker 2: they get them motivated, They get them wanting to be
Speaker 2: out there, and they get them wanting to kind.
Speaker 3: Of learn about their golf swing and play rather than just.
Speaker 2: Making them think if you hit all these certain positions
Speaker 2: and these numbers, you'll be player.
Speaker 1: You know, there's an irony about it that a golf
Speaker 1: a great golf coach would make you see them less
Speaker 1: over time, which would thus cost them money in terms
Speaker 1: of lesson time.
Speaker 3: It's a conflict in their business model.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's yeah, But the truly great coaches are if
Speaker 2: you talk to them, they're like, even though you might
Speaker 2: see them behind the guys on the range all the time,
Speaker 2: the great I mean, Butcher's just keep them half the
Speaker 2: time most of the time, just keeping these guys in
Speaker 2: a good mood and pumping him up mentally and just
Speaker 2: generally having a good time. And if they need, if
Speaker 2: they want something, he's there with it, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. But he's generally just there helping them out.
Speaker 2: And then the great coaches a lot of that. They're
Speaker 2: not giving any technique lessons on the range on Thursday mornings.
Speaker 2: I mean, some of them aren't. But the great ones don't,
Speaker 2: you know, They're just going to be there and make
Speaker 2: their player feel like a better player all the time.
Speaker 2: I think that's really the art, making the player love
Speaker 2: the game and love kind of working his game out,
Speaker 2: you know, because it's hard going to work out.
Speaker 1: Was there a guy outside of your coach? Is that
Speaker 1: that you over the years that you liked talking to
Speaker 1: the swing most about like either player or coach that
Speaker 1: you just like to chat with about well, you know,
Speaker 1: different things about the swing.
Speaker 3: All the ways through it was interesting.
Speaker 2: I always thought like, if I go all the way
Speaker 2: through my golf through the players. Justin Rose when we
Speaker 2: were kids, he was always into this with Justin and
Speaker 2: Trevor were the two guys Immelman who really were into
Speaker 2: the swing and had great technical actions, And I was
Speaker 2: interested in what they were working on and used to
Speaker 2: talk to them a little bit about it growing up
Speaker 2: through the thing. And then on the way I'm obviously Lynchy.
Speaker 2: He was my guy we would talk to the most,
Speaker 2: but I always to love I hung out with Butcher
Speaker 2: a lot because he was I used to.
Speaker 3: Play a lot with Adham, so we Scotty, so we'd
Speaker 3: walk a lot.
Speaker 2: Of practice rounds, and I loved hanging out with She
Speaker 2: was just good energy and had a fair bit of
Speaker 2: wisdom with the game. I think Pete Cowen speaks brilliantly
Speaker 2: about the game. I don't know anybody's thought about it
Speaker 2: as much as Pete.
Speaker 3: I mean everybody.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of people that have thought about golf
Speaker 2: a lot. You and me included, right but Pete right
Speaker 2: up there, he's played at a pretty high level. Accepted
Speaker 2: that he wasn't there because of for whatever reason. I
Speaker 2: think he says he's at his anger issues were pretty strong.
Speaker 2: But he's he's incredibly wise about the game and no nonsense.
Speaker 3: You know, he won't sugarcoat it for you. He'll say,
Speaker 3: this is the way it is. If you do this,
Speaker 3: you'll be better. If you don't, you won't.
Speaker 2: Like he's got a really interesting delivery system. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: he's great a lot of guys. Look, I still love
Speaker 2: speaking to all the coaches. I think it's fascinating, like
Speaker 2: how everybody's trying to interpret It's the same thing, really,
Speaker 2: I mean, you're just trying to get the club to
Speaker 2: hit the ball the right direction, you know what I
Speaker 2: mean basically, and everyone interprets that completely differently and explains
Speaker 2: it differently. And I think it's there's value in talking
Speaker 2: to lots of different people about it because everyone sees
Speaker 2: it different and you you will too. But the more
Speaker 2: different perspectives you have, maybe the more you can kind
Speaker 2: of zone in on the way you want to feel
Speaker 2: about it, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And every golfer like the way they understand how
Speaker 1: that person interprets it different, like and somebody could just
Speaker 1: explain it a little different and it clicks with you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Like there was definitely times when Lynchy was
Speaker 2: like probably banging his head against the walls, knowing, how
Speaker 2: can Jeff not get this?
Speaker 3: How can he not get this?
Speaker 2: And then I would talk to other another player or
Speaker 2: just randomly and someone would be or I'd look at
Speaker 2: another player working on something and I would try something
Speaker 2: and Lynch, She's like, well, that's what I've been trying
Speaker 2: to get you to do for a year or so,
Speaker 2: why don't you just tell me that? You know, so
Speaker 2: we get very tunnel vision suck in our ways, And
Speaker 2: as I said, I was fairly stubborn. I knew the
Speaker 2: answers and no one else did. So you don't open
Speaker 2: your eyes as much. I think the more times, the
Speaker 2: more the more you just absorbed the game from all
Speaker 2: sorts of people, I think the more it helps.
Speaker 1: It's funny you mentioned Justin Rose because I think I
Speaker 1: think he almost did what Bryson did before Bryson did it,
Speaker 1: because he that how he gained distance was pretty incredible
Speaker 1: because he went from being you know, not long to
Speaker 1: long over the course of a couple years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he wasn't naturally one of the long ones for
Speaker 2: me or kid, I mean Charles Howell will Kids, he
Speaker 2: was naturally long. You know, he's always smashed it and
Speaker 2: hit the ball. Well, I mean Scotty Adam was really
Speaker 2: naturally long, Sergio I was naturally long, but Justin wasn't
Speaker 2: naturally long. But he's created He's made himself a long hitter,
Speaker 2: which is amazing. Yeah, it's hard to do because history
Speaker 2: has always said that the guys who tried to gain
Speaker 2: length usually lost the plot, right, but recent times, You're right,
Speaker 2: Justin was one of the runs who actually turned himself
Speaker 2: from a not he wasn't short, but he wasn't one
Speaker 2: of those naturally like speedy swingers to a guy actually
Speaker 2: smashes it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, impressed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, tell us about this Player series in Australia. It
Speaker 1: perked my interests and I wish it was on TV.
Speaker 1: I thought it was a really cool concept. And he
Speaker 1: tell us the concept of the event, and then about
Speaker 1: the first one that you hosted and played in Australia.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean it was really cool. So the
Speaker 2: Player series events, we thought we've been struggling to get
Speaker 2: the big sort of the medium level to events going
Speaker 2: in Australia. We've always sort of done right with the
Speaker 2: Strain Open and the PGA and the Masters and stuff,
Speaker 2: though the Masters has gone.
Speaker 3: By the way so now, but.
Speaker 2: We'd always have two or three big events and then
Speaker 2: there'd be nothing for anyone to play in except for
Speaker 2: the guys who go overseas.
Speaker 3: So there was sort of a bit of an idea
Speaker 3: thrown around.
Speaker 2: I'd always thought that we should get amateurs and pros
Speaker 2: playing together more often. And then with the Victorian Open,
Speaker 2: they've been running the men's and women's tournament concurrently at
Speaker 2: the same thirty six hole venue and you'd play men's group,
Speaker 2: women's group, men's group, women's group, and that's been a
Speaker 2: massive success. Has having a guys and girls tournament running
Speaker 2: at the same time. Brought more people in kind of
Speaker 2: opened our eyes to the women's game and opened their
Speaker 2: eyes to our game, like it was just a really
Speaker 2: good thing. So combining the pros and juniors and men
Speaker 2: and women both in the one tournament, we thought, one,
Speaker 2: this is at not a crazy prize money level, but
Speaker 2: at at a at a level. To create this, let's
Speaker 2: have guys and girls play the same tournament, and we
Speaker 2: adjust the girl's teas to match theoretically, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, as good as we can. So only one.
Speaker 2: We're playing for one and the men and women are
Speaker 2: for it. And it's pro. It's the best pros we
Speaker 2: can find in the area, and thirty or forty ameters,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. So the first two days
Speaker 2: there's a men's pro, a woman pro probably and an
Speaker 2: elite amateur who could win the tournament, you know, these
Speaker 2: plus anticap gids, these kids who are about to turn pro.
Speaker 2: And then on the weekend after the cut, the two
Speaker 2: pros in the group they would they had like an
Speaker 2: under eighteen junior tournament on the week thirty six tournament
Speaker 2: they played in our group. So we had a junior
Speaker 2: in every one of our groups.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: So yeah, so the junior's got to play with pros
Speaker 2: on the weekend in a tournament in contention, play for
Speaker 2: their own thing, and the men and women got to
Speaker 2: play their own tournament too. It was It was amazing.
Speaker 2: So the Australian Tour Graham Scott, who's one of the
Speaker 2: rules officials, set up the teas for the guys and
Speaker 2: the girls and we had Suo who was probably our
Speaker 2: most legitimate women play this. She's top fifty in the world,
Speaker 2: plays LPGA, a really really good player.
Speaker 3: She had a chance to win.
Speaker 2: She was tied for the lead with two hours to play.
Speaker 2: And then we had Elvis Smiley who's a young amateur
Speaker 2: nineteen I think nineteen and one of the probably one
Speaker 2: of the best amateurs in Australia right now.
Speaker 3: He bird is the last to go in front of
Speaker 3: Sue on Sunday.
Speaker 2: And then Brad Kennedy, the veteran pro who's won a
Speaker 2: bunch of Japan and stuff Australia. He goes and has
Speaker 2: like three hundred in the last four and he ends
Speaker 2: up winning by a shot. So we have a girl
Speaker 2: about to win, then one of the amateurs is about
Speaker 2: to win, and then a pro wins right at the end,
Speaker 2: all in front of the thing, and we had the
Speaker 2: young There was a young fourteen or fifteen year old girl, Molly,
Speaker 2: who was a local girl from Rosebud the course we
Speaker 2: were playing. She was tied for the lead and the
Speaker 2: amateur thing or one behind in the amateur tournament. And
Speaker 2: the amateur tournament was this the junior tournament was to
Speaker 2: say was girls and guys in the same thing.
Speaker 3: She stumps it to like three feet in the last
Speaker 3: in front of her.
Speaker 2: Home crowd makes Bertie to win, and then the kid no,
Speaker 2: and then the kid, the eighteen year old kid. He
Speaker 2: comes up the last and I was like a twenty
Speaker 2: foot of a beat her by a shot. Like it
Speaker 2: was just an amazing thing. Everybody, just the experience everyone
Speaker 2: gained was really really cool, and everyone was really excited.
Speaker 2: And as I said, we had a guy and a
Speaker 2: girl like Sue, as I said, a world class player,
Speaker 2: and Brad Kennedy's a world class player. They we got
Speaker 2: the tea's right, So it was a fair tournament, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, between guys and girls.
Speaker 3: So it was really cool.
Speaker 1: What was the difference in yardage about.
Speaker 2: In very Look, it was quite a short course, so
Speaker 2: it was maybe a little bit. I don't know if
Speaker 2: it would be easier to do on a short course
Speaker 2: for a harder course on a longer course, I don't know,
Speaker 2: but thirty meters thirty yards something like that, ten on
Speaker 2: the path, threes and thirty on a part five something
Speaker 2: like that, I don't know, forty on a part five
Speaker 2: something like that. So it was they were trying to
Speaker 2: get it, so we hit the same clubs in and
Speaker 2: it's it's a tough one, I think, because there's more
Speaker 2: variation between the longest women golfers and the shortest than
Speaker 2: there is between the guys. You know, I think totally
Speaker 2: the median band for guys is pretty much everybody you know,
Speaker 2: between two ninety and three ten or wherever you want
Speaker 2: to put it. That's kind of where everybody hits it
Speaker 2: except for a few outliers, you know. Whereas the girls,
Speaker 2: there's some girls who hit it far. And the difference
Speaker 2: between the and Van Dam and the shortest here on
Speaker 2: tour is sixty yards or something fifty yards. You know,
Speaker 2: there's no guys don't have that spread.
Speaker 1: Mb Park hits at like two thirty you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And Ni, Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 2: So there's a big It would be harder probably to
Speaker 2: look and this isn't a thing that you would ever
Speaker 2: have at a super high level because I think it
Speaker 2: would be really difficult to get right. As I said,
Speaker 2: with the elite, everybody's but at this level that we're
Speaker 2: doing it like sort of Australian pros, you aren't really
Speaker 2: don't have anywhere to go, so at the moment, really
Speaker 2: good players, I mean, we had some pretty legit players
Speaker 2: in it, and the quality of the fields we have.
Speaker 2: That next year will be interesting because we're going to
Speaker 2: do it again. We're going to try to do as
Speaker 2: many as we can around Australia. But the next one
Speaker 2: we'll do the same tournament again the week before all
Speaker 2: week after the vic Open. Hopefully it happens and we
Speaker 2: should have almost a full LPGA style field and European
Speaker 2: too kind of guys field, so along with the juniors
Speaker 2: and the kids and stuff.
Speaker 3: It could be really good.
Speaker 1: Man, that's cool. It had to be so much fun
Speaker 1: to be like that. It had to be unlike any
Speaker 1: tournament you've ever played in.
Speaker 3: I was so cool.
Speaker 2: It was maybe the coolest tournament, I mean outside of
Speaker 2: the obviously the Masters and stuff like that, as far
Speaker 2: as just how happy people were to be in it
Speaker 2: and how much fun people had. It was the best
Speaker 2: tournament I've ever played by far. I mean, the kid
Speaker 2: we played with on I was in the last group.
Speaker 2: I played decently the first two days and it was
Speaker 2: the last group on Saturday and played with this young
Speaker 2: kid Jack who was no a bell actually Jackson gud
Speaker 2: who won it our Bell and I hadn't heard of him.
Speaker 2: He was like seventeen or eighteen, and he was so nervous.
Speaker 2: On the first two he's flipping out right. He's playing
Speaker 2: in the last group on Saturday to pro to and
Speaker 2: there's gallery ropes and there's signs that its like feels
Speaker 2: like a big tournament. But by about the sixth or
Speaker 2: seventh hole, he'd like completely grown up as a golfer
Speaker 2: and he just played. It was unbelievable just to see
Speaker 2: the experience he got out of one day that we
Speaker 2: never had a chance. No one gets a chance to
Speaker 2: do this, you know, play behind the inside the ropes
Speaker 2: on the weekend with pros. But it's not completely serious
Speaker 2: because you're not actually in the tournament, but you actually
Speaker 2: get to see what they do and get the feeling
Speaker 2: of being there.
Speaker 3: It was. It was incredible. It was great.
Speaker 2: I mean or that we had parents who were I
Speaker 2: mean they were coming up just just gushing about how
Speaker 2: like good this was for their kids, and that was amazing.
Speaker 3: It was really cool.
Speaker 1: That's as you know, when I think back to playing
Speaker 1: golf as a junior golf her, I would this had
Speaker 1: that is probably where this event does the most good
Speaker 1: is for those juniors, because like every time you play
Speaker 1: at a higher level, it's like a whole new experience
Speaker 1: and you get that out of body, uncomfortable experience, and
Speaker 1: this one had to be like it probably like felt
Speaker 1: like jumping three levels, going from high school to like
Speaker 1: a graduate school class. For these kids.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was amazing. I mean it was.
Speaker 2: And you can't buy experience like that. I mean, it's
Speaker 2: never been there this sort of thing, you know. I
Speaker 2: mean only if any of these kids kind of get
Speaker 2: lucky enough and have that crazy week where they Monday
Speaker 2: qualify into the Australian Open or something and happen to
Speaker 2: play well and sort of like there's a lot of
Speaker 2: ifs and bots about getting an experience like that, but
Speaker 2: if if you can provide that experience, it was just yeah,
Speaker 2: they all got better that week, for sure. Is it
Speaker 2: probably want to do it more? You know, like the
Speaker 2: motivation is like, wow, this is fun. This people actually
Speaker 2: watching me play and this privy ones on the range
Speaker 2: and there's like, I mean this is like nice.
Speaker 3: You know a motivation.
Speaker 1: What do you think about the idea of that this
Speaker 1: type of product for golf at a bigger scale. When
Speaker 1: you think about the value prop of of this, maybe
Speaker 1: just say it happened on the PGA Tour with LPGA
Speaker 1: Tour and then junior golfers, is that you know, we
Speaker 1: were We started to see it with just the annual
Speaker 1: the Augusta National Women's Amateur, like uh Fosse and cup show,
Speaker 1: the two girls that duked it out on the final day.
Speaker 1: They were also known commodities when they turn pro like
Speaker 1: people like you know, casual golfers know who they are,
Speaker 1: and it's like this has the opportunity to like I
Speaker 1: think one of the toughest things for golf is like
Speaker 1: they make their chops off off guys like Tiger and
Speaker 1: Phil and Ernie and who are around for twenty years.
Speaker 1: Is like it it almost extends. It builds a brand
Speaker 1: of some of these like up and coming kids earlier,
Speaker 1: you know, in the process if the right kids are there.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, I think it works on I don't think
Speaker 2: it works on like an important tournament, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean?
Speaker 3: I agree, but I think it really works.
Speaker 2: I mean it would be amazing because I mean, you
Speaker 2: could do it in such a bigger scale in the US,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, it's just more money involved,
Speaker 2: so you could just I don't know, you could do
Speaker 2: it on a bigger scale, but it.
Speaker 3: Was just I just it's look, it's everything that golf,
Speaker 3: at least.
Speaker 2: In Australia and the kind of the countries that were
Speaker 2: influenced by, say the RNA.
Speaker 3: But still it's the feeling is still in the US
Speaker 3: that aminism.
Speaker 2: Pros have always been kept far apart, and men and
Speaker 2: women have always been kept far apart. There's always been
Speaker 2: like almost like four different sort of areas of golf.
Speaker 2: It's like, why can't we all just playing the same thing.
Speaker 2: It's actually a better product when we're all in the
Speaker 2: same place, you know. And the junior thing like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you just can't one. It's going to make them want
Speaker 2: to do it more too, Like you say, it builds
Speaker 2: their brand.
Speaker 3: Three, it makes everybody better. It's it's better to watch.
Speaker 2: It was so interesting, like when I finished three or
Speaker 2: four groups to watch the last few groups come in
Speaker 2: and watch the juniors play with the pros in the
Speaker 2: last few holes and stuff, and it was just more
Speaker 2: interesting to watch than three guys who just hit perfect
Speaker 2: shots all the way in and have twenty foots. You know,
Speaker 2: I mean or whatever I mean too, it was great,
Speaker 2: I want saying that, but it was just something that
Speaker 2: you didn't see every day, so it was more interesting
Speaker 2: to see, haws, the girls, how do the girls play
Speaker 2: this hole?
Speaker 3: How do the kids play this whole? What's this prog?
Speaker 2: What's this experienced pro going to feel like he's probably
Speaker 2: feeling pressure because there's kids beating him, and like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, like it was just there's just there was
Speaker 2: a lot of elements and maybe every week it wouldn't
Speaker 2: be the same as a one off, but I feel
Speaker 2: like it's a format that would work anywhere, you know,
Speaker 2: and I think one would buy in, you know, I
Speaker 2: think golf is a sport can buy into this.
Speaker 3: Sort of model because everybody wins here.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It's funny too. Just this is like an anecdotal thing
Speaker 1: that happened to me in the winter when the father son,
Speaker 1: I put the father son on my TV. My wife
Speaker 1: like doesn't care about golf at all, Like she she
Speaker 1: walks by the TV with golf on all the time.
Speaker 1: It never stops, never asks what's going on. And then
Speaker 1: there's like there's Charlie Woods and there's Coocher's kid and
Speaker 1: she like stops dead in her track. She's like, what's
Speaker 1: what's this. I'm like, oh, this is the father son.
Speaker 1: And she's like, how old are these kids? And I
Speaker 1: was like, I they're like eleven, twelve, thirteen, some of
Speaker 1: them are seventeen. And she's like this is so cool.
Speaker 1: Like she sat down and started watching golf because of
Speaker 1: the kids. I think, you know, like, and I think
Speaker 1: it brings it gives you a different feel too, like,
Speaker 1: and it attracts it for audiences. And here's like, you know,
Speaker 1: my wife, It's like, it just was really interesting to
Speaker 1: me that like she was all sudden enthralled in this event,
Speaker 1: that like, of all the events that I watched, like
Speaker 1: I had about the least amount of interest in, you know,
Speaker 1: was the one that interests her the most. And I
Speaker 1: think that's the other where you these different events have
Speaker 1: the ability to engage different types of fans. It's not
Speaker 1: like a one box fit's all type proposition that everybody
Speaker 1: seems to be going for. It's like this type of
Speaker 1: event is compelling to a lot of different types of people.
Speaker 2: I think too, Yeah, because there's going to be people
Speaker 2: who were at Rosebud the tournament we just played who
Speaker 2: were going to now look in the paper or on
Speaker 2: the internet or whatever they do and follow these kids.
Speaker 2: I wonder how that kid's doing we saw at Rosebud.
Speaker 2: I wonder how that girl's doing. Your body the last
Speaker 2: and they're going to look for their name, and they're
Speaker 2: going to get lifelong fans maybe potentially out of being
Speaker 2: exposed at that point, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 2: I think it's a I think it's fantastic.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I really enjoyed. It was better than we ever imagined.
Speaker 1: Actually, I get messages every once in a while from
Speaker 1: listeners or readers who tell me stories about like going
Speaker 1: to see Like one that pops into my mind is
Speaker 1: like this this couple went and watched a random turn.
Speaker 1: They happen to be in Spain when the European Tour
Speaker 1: was there, and they remember walking they're the only people
Speaker 1: following Lee, like an eight or nineteen year old Lee Westwood,
Speaker 1: and like, of course, like he chatted them up and
Speaker 1: they'll like the note was basically like we've been Lee
Speaker 1: Westwood fans for our entire lives. Like and that's the
Speaker 1: thing that with the kids and getting golf fans, like
Speaker 1: these are just golf nuts who are in Spain for
Speaker 1: some trip and we're like, oh, we're gonna go watch
Speaker 1: this European Tour event, and sure enough, they stumble into
Speaker 1: following a random group and they become a lifelong fan
Speaker 1: of a golfer. And that's how people become fans of golfers.
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the things that's tough. It's
Speaker 1: not like I'm not you know, I'm a Chicago Bulls
Speaker 1: fan because I'm from Chicago. But like, becoming a fan
Speaker 1: of a golfer, you have to kind of have a reason.
Speaker 1: And I grew up a fan of Luke Donald because
Speaker 1: I caddied for Luke Donald when I was fifteen years old,
Speaker 1: you know, But like, how else do you become a
Speaker 1: fan of a golfer?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're true, right, I mean, my parents said the
Speaker 3: same story.
Speaker 2: They went to the Westlife Classic in Adelaide in nine
Speaker 2: and seventy six and saw this blondeheaded kid who just
Speaker 2: seemed to be more special than the rest and watched
Speaker 2: him play seventy two holes and he won, and there
Speaker 2: he was Greg Norman like, and they were lifelong Greg
Speaker 2: Normal fans because they saw him before, you know, they
Speaker 2: saw him as a kid and that small skye and
Speaker 2: he probably said high across the roads or something. It
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, it was You're right, absolutely. You have
Speaker 2: a connection with a play, a lot of that you follow,
Speaker 2: you know, and this is just opening up. As you
Speaker 2: said this, I didn't even think of this would get more.
Speaker 2: We get a different group of people watching it, but
Speaker 2: it would, especially with the kids involved and the guys
Speaker 2: and the girls and kids involved, all sort of battling
Speaker 2: it out under that same sort of environment that you're
Speaker 2: normally kind of you're only used to seeing, like PGA
Speaker 2: tour players and the seventy two old stroke play thing
Speaker 2: like that thing that we see fifty one weeks a year.
Speaker 2: Something different always captures our interest, and this has got
Speaker 2: something for more people to watch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is such a cool event. When so when's
Speaker 1: the next one?
Speaker 3: There's one?
Speaker 2: It's well, yeah, we're going to do that one every
Speaker 2: year at the same place, but we're going to try
Speaker 2: to get I say, we the tour down here.
Speaker 3: The one I'm going to help out with is the
Speaker 3: one we just had.
Speaker 2: They're putting one on in Sydney at Bonnie Doing in March.
Speaker 1: That's a good.
Speaker 2: Body, then it's good. Yeah, readone by Ocah. Yeah, it's good.
Speaker 2: It's nice as right next to the lakes. It's all sand.
Speaker 2: It's a pretty cool place, really cool place.
Speaker 3: So that we'll see how that goes.
Speaker 2: I think the format will be it'll be good and
Speaker 2: I think it'll we should be able to get a
Speaker 2: few running in Australia at least, I said, to complement
Speaker 2: out of the big tournaments we've got and to give
Speaker 2: what's happened with these juniors these days the kids is that,
Speaker 2: at least in Australia, the world Amated golf ranking has
Speaker 2: become their obsession.
Speaker 3: You know, they want to get high up on that
Speaker 3: for whatever.
Speaker 2: It is, scholarships or like sponsorship when they turn pro
Speaker 2: and invites and stuff, and so it works just like
Speaker 2: a little bit like the pro rankings. And there's certain
Speaker 2: situations where if you play less you get more points,
Speaker 2: you know, you help your ranking. You don't want to
Speaker 2: play week events, you know, to dilute your scores. So
Speaker 2: they're all not playing enough tournaments. These kids, and the
Speaker 2: Australian kids are all unbelievably good golfers, but then when
Speaker 2: they turn pro, it seems like they're just a little
Speaker 2: bit underdone. And so the more of these things we
Speaker 2: can get, I think the better because it won't go
Speaker 2: into their world Amitter golf ranking hopefully, and they'll get
Speaker 2: all that the playing experience without sort of messing it up.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I couldn't imagine. When I was young, I played every
Speaker 2: tournament that you could find an entry form for. You know,
Speaker 2: it didn't matter where I was doing.
Speaker 3: I was going.
Speaker 2: At the moment, they're scheduling themselves as their kids, and
Speaker 2: I'm just not quite sure I like that. I'd rather
Speaker 2: than just be playing a lot more so let's give
Speaker 2: them more stuff to play, so.
Speaker 1: Even if they win, like a lower level event, it
Speaker 1: can hurt them or finishing.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I haven't studied the details of the system,
Speaker 2: but I know that maybe only a win would help,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: And we're talking about the kids who are like right
Speaker 3: up the top.
Speaker 2: I mean there's been a few, but they really want
Speaker 2: to be in that top three or four in the
Speaker 2: world aming rankings.
Speaker 3: And we've had a couple in that area that.
Speaker 2: Won't play reasonably big events because on a world scale
Speaker 2: there's small points and if they don't win, they'll hurt
Speaker 2: their rankings and stuff. Yeah, it's amazing amate a level
Speaker 2: that we're doing that. You know, it's crazy.
Speaker 3: We don't.
Speaker 2: We don't have the college tournaments which don't count for that.
Speaker 2: I don't think do they or do they?
Speaker 1: I think they do count, but they're they do. I
Speaker 1: think that's where a kid.
Speaker 2: They're forced to play them. They have to play them,
Speaker 2: you know, which is which is the good thing. Which
Speaker 2: is why the US kids are doing the best apart
Speaker 2: from the US having the most good golfers, is that
Speaker 2: they're that competitive environment where they just all they do
Speaker 2: is play against each other. All they're playing for their
Speaker 2: spot on the team each week and then they're playing
Speaker 2: and they just they've got they're always playing to have
Speaker 2: a good score today. Like I said, they're not you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, when you have six months between tournaments,
Speaker 2: you get it, you can get off track.
Speaker 3: They didn't.
Speaker 1: They don't have a mini tour down there. Really is
Speaker 1: there is there like or is it mostly PGA driven?
Speaker 3: We don't have any.
Speaker 2: It's all PGA driven And we have COVID's messed the
Speaker 2: whole thing up because we canceled our big events last year.
Speaker 3: But yeah, we have ten or twelve or fifteen kind.
Speaker 2: Of really small events and then we have two or
Speaker 2: three four big ones in a normal year and they're
Speaker 2: all run by the two.
Speaker 3: They're all kind of on the same money list.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's not what it was twenty five years
Speaker 2: ago too, But we don't have Greg Norman's number one
Speaker 2: and the pipe piper as well, and this Australian football
Speaker 2: and the tennis that's are at the moment, and the
Speaker 2: Grand Prix and that that takes a lot of the
Speaker 2: sponsored money.
Speaker 1: But yeah, and the big play. The tour's expansion has
Speaker 1: to have hurt too, like where the PGA tour calendar
Speaker 1: instead of being thirty thirty weeks, is now fifty weeks.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've been date squeezed especially yeah, with with the
Speaker 2: fall getting used so heavily by Europe and the US
Speaker 2: now that that's kind of when we could sit in
Speaker 2: you know, November December and we'd have a few in January.
Speaker 2: But with Kapelloua starting in January first basically and then
Speaker 2: not finishing till the middle of December, any Australian who's
Speaker 2: playing a foreign tour has a difficult time coming to
Speaker 2: play back here. And then on top of that, you're
Speaker 2: never going to get any extra players because they've all
Speaker 2: just done the grind for the Race to Dubai, or
Speaker 2: they've grind through the Fall series and they've traveled around
Speaker 2: the world. The last thing they want to do is
Speaker 2: put another two weeks in Australia and the other side
Speaker 2: of the world in So it's difficult date wise for sure,
Speaker 2: But I don't know. I means the US has also
Speaker 2: made people think that a tournament anying less than four
Speaker 2: or five million it's not a real tournament anymore either,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: So that's crazy.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's Amilil's like, this is a good thing,
Speaker 2: but it's definitely made it difficult for Australia and New
Speaker 2: Zealand and South Africa and Japan and other countries that,
Speaker 2: like it's just hard to keep up.
Speaker 1: It's funny because you see like guys that get into
Speaker 1: some random fields that haven't played, you know, every seemingly
Speaker 1: every couple of weeks, there's like you're like, oh God,
Speaker 1: how did this guy get in this field? And it's
Speaker 1: like some career money exemption and people will be like, oh,
Speaker 1: why is he even playing? He hasn't played five years.
Speaker 1: It's like, who wouldn't want to go play for seven
Speaker 1: million dollars, Like.
Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, who's not doing that?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Do you want to play golf for forty four days?
Speaker 1: And the person seven million? Like it's like, well, maybe
Speaker 1: I'll play a couple of good rounds and I'll make
Speaker 1: you know, one hundred grants.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Yeah, it's amazing. It's a juggle.
Speaker 2: The tourist so uh, the tour being PGA Tour, Ponovidra
Speaker 2: is just an amazing organization.
Speaker 3: It's incredible what they've done.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just that Woods and uh, and then
Speaker 2: the second degeneration after Target has been so good. You know,
Speaker 2: the Ricky and the Jordan and the Brooks and the
Speaker 2: Dustin and it's JT. It's like a very lovable generation
Speaker 2: of players, you know, lockable.
Speaker 3: It's just incredible.
Speaker 1: That's that's the interesting thing that you brought up with
Speaker 1: Norman becoming the biggest player in the game, Like it
Speaker 1: was Norman Faldo savvy for an era. And then you
Speaker 1: think about when you read back about the early nineties,
Speaker 1: you know, American golf was not in a good place,
Speaker 1: like they didn't have a superstar really, you know, they
Speaker 1: had Freddie, but he never lived up to what it
Speaker 1: what he could be. Davis Love never won as much
Speaker 1: as people thought, and it was like the end of
Speaker 1: the Watson Nicholas era there was until Tiger came along,
Speaker 1: and really, you know, Phil was becoming that star. All
Speaker 1: the big names in golf were international and the and
Speaker 1: you know then you look at like west E's era
Speaker 1: and Monty and and Sergio, Like the European Tour was
Speaker 1: really a good foil for the PGA Tour for a
Speaker 1: while and then it Tiger just ruined ended everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's probably a good thing, yeah, but he certainly
Speaker 2: helped be the catalyst for like the big like you said,
Speaker 2: the rebirth of American great American professionals. I mean they're
Speaker 2: not They're all wing right right through that era. We're picking,
Speaker 2: We're picking.
Speaker 1: Yeah, nepick, total neck picks here.
Speaker 3: But i mean, look at the list applies now.
Speaker 2: I mean Dustin Brooks, Justin, I mean JT, Jordan, Ricky
Speaker 2: and I'm missing a bunch, I'm sure, just long term
Speaker 2: top ten player in the world level players, you know,
Speaker 2: the sort of players we're talking about. It's a great
Speaker 2: and I'll tell you Australia we had twenty more than
Speaker 2: twenty players on the PGA during the early two thousands.
Speaker 2: I guarantee you most of that is because we all
Speaker 2: got excited about golf because of the Shark, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean the influence of these like legendary players is immeasurable.
Speaker 2: I think, like it's really really big. Look at Gary
Speaker 2: Player twenty fifteen years later. Twenty years later you got
Speaker 2: Ernie Els and Retief Goosen and stuff, and then those
Speaker 2: guys Inspire Schwartzel and Nimmelman and all that. It's like
Speaker 2: these legends ten or fifteen years later inspire and Tiger
Speaker 2: did that for the whole world, but he certainly did
Speaker 2: it for the American kids, you know, the JT's and the.
Speaker 3: Jordan's and the Rory I mean, Rory's obviously a big
Speaker 3: Tiger fan.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, that's totally The way to look at it, too,
Speaker 1: is looking ten to fifteen, fifteen to ten to twenty
Speaker 1: years after and seeing where they stack up, Like the
Speaker 1: I just wish the owgr went back further, you know,
Speaker 1: like it only goes back there. Yes, yes, like you
Speaker 1: can look at the McCormack rags, But that's the way
Speaker 1: to look at it. Is like the impact of having
Speaker 1: number one player in the world on a country's golf,
Speaker 1: like a true legend. It's got to be. You're I'd
Speaker 1: never dad the Australia like that. You're totally right, because,
Speaker 1: like you know, there aren't as even there's still a
Speaker 1: lot of great assis, but like there aren't quite as many.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the influence is here. I'm it's a massive influence.
Speaker 3: You just can't. I mean, Pede Coostas is a very
Speaker 3: wise man about golf.
Speaker 2: Back at the back of the range at wass Brook
Speaker 2: one day He's like, look, everyone who's always trying to
Speaker 2: copy and follow out the best pier in the world
Speaker 2: at the top.
Speaker 3: You guys, everyone in the sixties is trying to be
Speaker 3: jacket Run.
Speaker 2: The seventies of trying to be jacket run the eighties
Speaker 2: Johnny Watson or Norman or Sevy or something.
Speaker 3: And then everybody's trying.
Speaker 2: To be those guys who are number one, dragged the
Speaker 2: standard of the sport along, you know, and they inspire
Speaker 2: kids to be like that. And I think the more
Speaker 2: magnetic and the better they are, the more like Greg
Speaker 2: Norman or Tiger Woods, Ronald Palmer they are, the more
Speaker 2: influence they have, and especially from a small country like
Speaker 2: Australia or South Africa or even the UK England, I
Speaker 2: mean Faldo.
Speaker 3: I think Jacqueline was a massive influence on guys.
Speaker 2: Like Faldo, and then Falo inspired Luke and Justin and
Speaker 2: Paul Casey and those guys are going to inspire like
Speaker 2: the next generations, you know. So I think it's very
Speaker 2: important having those charismatic leaders of the sport. I think
Speaker 2: very important. It's very influential. I think it changes the
Speaker 2: way the game is played by people.
Speaker 1: The history of golf histories. So I love reading. That's
Speaker 1: something that the quarantine kind of led me down, was
Speaker 1: reading all about all those old school players I never
Speaker 1: got to watch. It's just amazing to read about how
Speaker 1: much Europe change from those five guys, you know, Seve
Speaker 1: and Sevi and uh foul dout Lyle and Woozy.
Speaker 2: You got her hang out of Woozy a little bit
Speaker 2: way back back in Europe. He was still playing. I'll
Speaker 2: play with a few times when I was my first
Speaker 2: couples in Europe, played prectureing with him at the Masters,
Speaker 2: a couple of times, played the Past three with him.
Speaker 3: He's a legend, so small.
Speaker 2: Like five foot four, but yeah, one of my favorite
Speaker 2: golf swings ever ever, fantastic.
Speaker 1: That's the guy I want to have a have a
Speaker 1: sit down and have a few beers with of all
Speaker 1: the all the European tour guys.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's an experienced man in the pub for sure,
Speaker 3: old school.
Speaker 1: Obviously big news in America a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 1: What what is your take, I sue he saw what
Speaker 1: happened with Patrick Reed. You got any thoughts on that?
Speaker 1: What do you like? Everybody's kind of been perplexed. I
Speaker 1: it was a weird situation, you know what happened, and I, uh,
Speaker 1: the thing that Ratt'll be like, I couldn't understand why
Speaker 1: I picked the ball up and moved it, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for me, I'm with you. I mean, I don't understand.
Speaker 2: It was a very gray area and he probably didn't
Speaker 2: actually break a rule.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's how I feel, right, but.
Speaker 2: It's certainly not in the spirit of the game the
Speaker 2: way I've always played it and most of the people
Speaker 2: I've ever played with Generally, if you're going to touch
Speaker 2: your ball, you're getting your guys over there to say, hey, guys,
Speaker 2: I just got.
Speaker 3: To check this, you know what I mean? Like fair
Speaker 3: enough We'll let him say that.
Speaker 2: The marshals, God bless marshals, they make golf tournaments better,
Speaker 2: but they don't always see it how it happens.
Speaker 3: And if she said it bounced, you can't take a
Speaker 3: marshal's word for it.
Speaker 2: Usually Anyway, if he thought it bounced and he was
Speaker 2: doing it and he thinks that's the way to do it,
Speaker 2: then I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on
Speaker 2: that one. But nobody I know who I've ever played with,
Speaker 2: would pick the ball up without getting people over there.
Speaker 2: Nobody like nobody the reason why that's that's the reason
Speaker 2: why the locker and that's the reason why the locker
Speaker 2: room flares up. One because of what happened back in
Speaker 2: the Bahamas. That was pretty blatant, and nobody really liked
Speaker 2: watching that, so his track record didn't help him.
Speaker 3: And two, nobody on tour, nobody in the locker.
Speaker 2: Room would do that like without their guy, without at
Speaker 2: least saying, hey, guys, I'm going to check if this
Speaker 2: is plug come over and check it out or getting
Speaker 2: the official. Nobody puts the hand on the ball of that,
Speaker 2: So I think it was poorly, poorly handled by himself.
Speaker 2: And I don't understand why the tourist so apt to
Speaker 2: defend you know, I mean poor behavior, Like you know,
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just not the right way to whether
Speaker 2: it's whether you're with whatever line you wanted. The sea word,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to put on it for that actual incident,
Speaker 2: but it was not the right way to do it.
Speaker 2: And he should know that because everyone on doing knows
Speaker 2: that's not the right way to do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's when I keep I'm like, I don't
Speaker 1: know why they go out of their way to defend what,
Speaker 1: you know. That's where I kind of like am perplexed,
Speaker 1: especially like I don't think he didn't necessarily do anything wrong,
Speaker 1: Like and there's no evidence that like proves that it
Speaker 1: didn't embed Like people say, well it bounced, they couldn't
Speaker 1: have embedded, but like, you know what, like nobody saw
Speaker 1: it right. But like the fact that he picked the
Speaker 1: ball up and then you know, if I'm going to
Speaker 1: check a ball and I'm going to call an official over,
Speaker 1: I'm putting the ball right back to where it was.
Speaker 1: You know, It's like I don't know why the ball
Speaker 1: was eight feet away, Like I've never seen that happen before.
Speaker 1: But I don't. It's I just where I get with
Speaker 1: this all the time. And I don't know if like
Speaker 1: golf is this game of honor, right, but we're playing,
Speaker 1: you're playing for millions of dollars, and if Patrick greed,
Speaker 1: I just he's everybody's looking to take it. Like it's
Speaker 1: kind of like we see it with koutre Last, Like
Speaker 1: everybody's trying like you're always trying to get an advent
Speaker 1: tea to drop, Like that's just kind of like you're
Speaker 1: out there like anybody that's played tournament golf knows like
Speaker 1: you're trying to get you know, drops in certain situations.
Speaker 1: But like there needs to be like they can't have
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff happen because it just brings into
Speaker 1: like doubt about the whole thing, you know.
Speaker 3: The game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's two things. One I think a normal reaction.
Speaker 2: I think people don't like his defiance. So I think
Speaker 2: people react to the defiance. If he came up and said,
Speaker 2: oh did I do that? Oh sorry, I thought that
Speaker 2: was the way you're supposed to do it. I'll do
Speaker 2: it different next time. Everyone would be like, oh, that's
Speaker 2: all right, But he's like, no, I did it right,
Speaker 2: I did it just is so defiant that people don't
Speaker 2: like that attitude. And I think the defiance, I actually
Speaker 2: I think Patrick's fine. Just don't understand why he can't
Speaker 2: just say, look, sorry, I messed that up.
Speaker 3: I'll go on.
Speaker 2: I mean, it wasn't cheating, but if you want me
Speaker 2: to do it a different way, I'll do it a
Speaker 2: different way.
Speaker 3: And on you go.
Speaker 2: But the game, to the bigger point is the game
Speaker 2: only functions. It does not function as a sport. You
Speaker 2: can't have a rules official and a camera on every player.
Speaker 2: And even beyond that, all golf we all trust that
Speaker 2: the people we play for twenty on the weekend, or
Speaker 2: the people we just have fun with, or anytime we're
Speaker 2: playing golf, we are trusting that they're hitting the ball
Speaker 2: from where it lies and they're playing under the same
Speaker 2: rules as us because they're on the other side of
Speaker 2: the fairway and in a normal tournament on different holes
Speaker 2: spread all over the golf course. Everybody has to buy
Speaker 2: into this culture of honor. Otherwise the game doesn't cease
Speaker 2: us to function as a sport. It just doesn't work.
Speaker 2: That's why it's important. So I yeah, I'm just it's
Speaker 2: a bad it's a bad example on TV. And I'm
Speaker 2: kind of glad that most people seem to flare up
Speaker 2: about it because, as I said, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: say he did anything wrong, but the way he did
Speaker 2: it was not the way everyone else in the locker
Speaker 2: room would have done that sort of situation or not
Speaker 2: most And it's it's just he should know better.
Speaker 3: He should know better.
Speaker 2: You go on to it.
Speaker 3: You know how to do things.
Speaker 2: We all know how to take drops, you know, I mean,
Speaker 2: and the process involved, and he just blatantly did it
Speaker 2: a different way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's just like it's kind of like media,
Speaker 1: Like I if if somebody reports something, you cite them,
Speaker 1: you know, I be like saying, like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: like try scoop somebody's story break, you know, like it,
Speaker 1: you know, act like it's your story break when they
Speaker 1: did it. You know, it's like nobody does that. It's
Speaker 1: like a real media person, I mean. And then you
Speaker 1: could go all different directions with that. But the other
Speaker 1: thing about it is, I like want to love watching
Speaker 1: Patrick Reid play golf because it's so he plays such
Speaker 1: a drastically different style than everybody else in the top
Speaker 1: fifteen in the world. You know, it's extraordinary that he's
Speaker 1: so freaking good when he like doesn't play the way
Speaker 1: the other guys play.
Speaker 2: Now he plays so good. He's such a good golfer.
Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of his golf. Like I like
Speaker 2: how he plays, I like how hard he works, Like
Speaker 2: I mean, he's one of the coolest to watch on
Speaker 2: Sunday in the last night I was. And if it's
Speaker 2: in he says, brilliant and watching the rider cups and stuff,
Speaker 2: I mean, fantastic, what entertainment, Like a brilliant golfer. And
Speaker 2: he doesn't need he was clearly going to win that
Speaker 2: tournament regardless whether he got an advantage in that situation
Speaker 2: or not, it doesn't really matter. He's winning by five.
Speaker 2: Like he's an unbelievable player. It's sad that he's tarnished
Speaker 2: like that, you know, because he's worthy of attention because
Speaker 2: he's that good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Because that's like the thing like everybody talks about
Speaker 1: like how there's such a lack of style stylistic difference
Speaker 1: in golf today, and it's like, this is the guy,
Speaker 1: this is the guy that's different, and it's just like
Speaker 1: why why does this have to be Why do you
Speaker 1: have to keep doing this stuff, like I want to
Speaker 1: enjoy watching you play golf, but it just makes I
Speaker 1: don't know, it's it's frustrating. I'd a mac and Ro.
Speaker 2: It's a bit of a mac and Rod thing though, right.
Speaker 2: He kind of almost fades off people being mad at him.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it seems to only happen when he's playing great.
Speaker 3: You know, I.
Speaker 1: Just can't believe, you know, like you think about the
Speaker 1: round he played on Sunday, the day after all that
Speaker 1: stuff happening, and it's like how many guys could deal
Speaker 1: with all, like every the entire golf world talking about
Speaker 1: you and then go out and shoot, you know, and
Speaker 1: just dust everybody on Sunday.
Speaker 2: I'll have trouble leaving my hotel room, like in that
Speaker 2: same scenario. You know, if everyone thought I'd done that,
Speaker 2: I would be hard to work. So everyone's built different, right,
Speaker 2: And He's like, if more people will look on watch
Speaker 2: on Sunday to see like it's what's going to happen,
Speaker 2: then it's good, you know. I mean, even if it's
Speaker 2: a good or a bad, it's not the Howard Stern.
Speaker 2: They turn on because they want to hear what he
Speaker 2: says next, whether it's good or bad.
Speaker 3: You know, they all listen.
Speaker 2: I mean Patrick might be helped like that a little bit.
Speaker 2: People just want to say what's going to happen, so
Speaker 2: they watch. So that's a good thing, I guess. But great,
Speaker 2: it's a bad thing. Yeah, it's a bad thing. I
Speaker 2: mean that's the yeah, the media side of it. But
Speaker 2: it's a bad thing if people think that golf is
Speaker 2: about trying to get away with one, like that headspace
Speaker 2: of trying to get away with one, it just doesn't
Speaker 2: work in golf. It's just the sport just doesn't work
Speaker 2: unless everybody's buys into the kind of honor of the
Speaker 2: whole thing.
Speaker 1: Hey, so big news for the USGA. I don't know
Speaker 1: if it really dos. It's just kind of like a
Speaker 1: they're just going to look at things closer, and they're
Speaker 1: it seems like they're pretty defiant that there is a
Speaker 1: distance issue in golf and something needs to be addressed.
Speaker 1: What were your thoughts on the USGA rollback talk.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a bit more.
Speaker 2: The last two or three years, we've the distance inside
Speaker 2: report that we've all got excited about one way or
Speaker 2: the other excited and then this one's I guess a
Speaker 2: little bit more of a progression from that, like kind
Speaker 2: of more specific and stuff what they're.
Speaker 3: Looking at stuff. I don't know. I just think.
Speaker 2: Clearly, I think everybody understands that if the best players
Speaker 2: in the water eating lob wedge is in the par fives,
Speaker 2: it doesn't work. Like, you know, if everyone's just going
Speaker 2: over the corner on thirteen in Augusta and hitting a
Speaker 2: wedge into the green which will eventually happen.
Speaker 3: Unchecked, then that doesn't work.
Speaker 2: Also, I think a lot of people acknowledge like just
Speaker 2: a massive step back. The massive step back is fraught
Speaker 2: with all sorts of potholes and rabbit holes, and it's
Speaker 2: a scary thing. I think it's it's an interesting time
Speaker 2: in the game. I said, I think there's too much
Speaker 2: focus on length, and I think length I don't think
Speaker 2: length by itself is really the issue. I just think
Speaker 2: it's easy to hit it straight and long. You know, Well,
Speaker 2: there's two sides of this. I think when you've got
Speaker 2: the richest club in the world spending like tens of
Speaker 2: millions of dollars to buy real estate to just preserve
Speaker 2: their whole, I don't know if that's Augusta might be
Speaker 2: able to do it, but every course in the world
Speaker 2: can't do that. So at some point a ball going
Speaker 2: three point fifty three sixty three seventy wherever it's going
Speaker 2: to go is too far for all the golf course.
Speaker 3: It's just too far. What you do about that, I
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 2: As I said, I think the beauty of the game
Speaker 2: is that is the balance between the golf course being
Speaker 2: the challenge and the equipment being the challenge. You know.
Speaker 2: I'm less about the length and more about it. I'd like
Speaker 2: to see at least pro's clubs be a little bit
Speaker 2: more difficult to use, so then you wouldn't need to
Speaker 2: make the course quite so difficult, because I think you
Speaker 2: when the average player goes and plays Beth Page Black,
Speaker 2: I mean, they're loving it because it's an experience and
Speaker 2: as Beth pay as Black, but really it's not a
Speaker 2: fun way for the average guy to play, because it's
Speaker 2: not a fun way for pros to play unless you
Speaker 2: hit it three fifty in the air, you know. I mean, So,
Speaker 2: I don't know really what I'm saying here is, but
Speaker 2: what I'm like, I like golf. I feel like golf
Speaker 2: for me, at least, is the best when the course
Speaker 2: is a challenge but not out out difficult, and the
Speaker 2: golf clubs to use are a challenge but not impossible,
Speaker 2: you know. I mean there's that balance between sort of
Speaker 2: easy course and hard equipment, and or hard course and
Speaker 2: easy equipment.
Speaker 3: I think that's got to stay.
Speaker 2: There's got to be that sort of balance in there,
Speaker 2: and I think that's the way you can kind of keep.
Speaker 3: Long and the short of golf together.
Speaker 2: I don't have any air that made sense, but I
Speaker 2: think while everybody obsessed that there are reports and these
Speaker 2: focuses all about length, and I don't know if out
Speaker 2: and out length is really the issue in how these
Speaker 2: guys or how everybody can it so far. I mean,
Speaker 2: if you go back to Greg Norman's days, Jack Nicholas's days,
Speaker 2: or Watson's days or seventy, all these guys they all
Speaker 2: out and Arnold, they all out powered everybody. They hit
Speaker 2: it miles, you know what I mean, As a few
Speaker 2: Bryers have brought up. But it was very difficult to
Speaker 2: do that, and they were the only guys who could
Speaker 2: because if you missed the sweet spot, the ball went sideways.
Speaker 3: So only the very very elite.
Speaker 2: Now the drivers are so good that everybody can go
Speaker 2: at it as hard as they can and get a
Speaker 2: reasonable result without the extra genius.
Speaker 3: That those other guys had. So I think.
Speaker 2: I don't hate the length. I hate that it seems
Speaker 2: to be easier to hit it straight and long. It's
Speaker 2: actually the safest club in the bag now, driver And
Speaker 2: I don't know that's a good thing because the drivers
Speaker 2: are great, right, But I think you can lose the
Speaker 2: balance of the game a little bit when it's like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think in it obviously, I think there's there's
Speaker 1: something to be said like every game of like every
Speaker 1: in the NBA, more players shoot threes now than ever before,
Speaker 1: and from further away than ever before, Like the really
Speaker 1: great ones can shoot threes from forever. Like in the NFL,
Speaker 1: guys throw the ball and there's more quarterbacks that throw
Speaker 1: the ball well than ever before. But the thing that
Speaker 1: I think with golf that makes it tough is and
Speaker 1: I and part of me sympathizes a little bit with
Speaker 1: the players and the really great players, is that there's
Speaker 1: a cloud of is this the athlete or is this
Speaker 1: the equipment? You know, is the equipment so good that
Speaker 1: this athlete is so good? And I think that's unfair
Speaker 1: to guys like DJ or Rory or even Bryson, Like
Speaker 1: Bryson's unbelievable golfer. Like I think you put any club
Speaker 1: in his hand, he's going to figure it out and
Speaker 1: he's gonna hit solid. And I think it's unfair that
Speaker 1: there's this skepticism that is cast over them because of equipment,
Speaker 1: like and having a little bit more challenge in order
Speaker 1: to hit it. Like you said, the distance is one thing,
Speaker 1: but the ease to keep it on the planet is
Speaker 1: another thing.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for me, it doesn't come down to what's look
Speaker 2: I mean from a personal preference, Like if we pick
Speaker 2: a hole that we all know, like thirteen of the Masters,
Speaker 2: and the way everyone's going to end up playing it
Speaker 2: is just hitting this big straight high bomb over the corner,
Speaker 2: and the old scoorelway would be to try it, you
Speaker 2: really had you thought about it for two or three holes,
Speaker 2: about how I can get this drawer around the corner
Speaker 2: and are going to draw it. To me, it's more
Speaker 2: fun to hit the shape around the corner than it
Speaker 2: is to hit the big high straight bomb. So regardless
Speaker 2: of how what clubs people hit in or any of that,
Speaker 2: to me, the game is more enjoyable slightly a different
Speaker 2: way than it is now.
Speaker 3: It's an enjoyable to hit the ball a long way
Speaker 3: and hit.
Speaker 2: It straight, and to smash driver and like to play it,
Speaker 2: and that's an enjoyable thing too, But it's more enjoyable
Speaker 2: for me when there's more of a there's more than
Speaker 2: just one way to skin a cat. I mean, I
Speaker 2: think golf has become pro golf, at least at the
Speaker 2: elite level. There's becoming one way to play, and I
Speaker 2: think golf is more interesting when there are more ways
Speaker 2: to play. And I don't think I think lengths should
Speaker 2: be a big part of game. I think the people
Speaker 2: who like Dustin and Rory should have a big advantage
Speaker 2: in Bryson for how far they hit it and how
Speaker 2: straight they hit it. I actually think they're getting short changed.
Speaker 1: I agree with lady you know.
Speaker 3: A little bit.
Speaker 2: I think the elite guys are actually getting a little
Speaker 2: short changed. And I think I wouldn't even begin to
Speaker 2: know how to tweak equipment to make that happen. But
Speaker 2: there are one hundred legitimately great drivers of the ball
Speaker 2: on tour these days, maybe more. You know, when I
Speaker 2: first got on twenty years ago, there was six, and
Speaker 2: like forty years ago there was two. You know, so
Speaker 2: is that good or bad? Certainly people are getting better,
Speaker 2: as you say, but I think there would be more
Speaker 2: separation of the top ten or twenty or thirty, which
Speaker 2: might make for more interesting viewing him.
Speaker 3: Might not. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I watched a it was maybe a first round or
Speaker 1: a practice round. Last time the BMW was at Conway
Speaker 1: and I watched. I watched Rory and he was playing
Speaker 1: with Ali Schneider Jans, who's a very good player, right,
Speaker 1: And I watched them play almost the entire round, and
Speaker 1: I just I saw, like Ali Schneider Jans h you know,
Speaker 1: he hitting it right around Rory like all day. A
Speaker 1: couple of times he's fifteen yards past him. They're both
Speaker 1: hitting driver. And I just thought to myself, I was like,
Speaker 1: in what world, Like why is Ali Schneider Jans Who's like, now,
Speaker 1: no slight, this is not meant to be a drive
Speaker 1: by shooting of Ali Schneider chance, but like he doesn't
Speaker 1: he have a card now? And it's like, how is
Speaker 1: he even in the same ballpark of Rory? Off the
Speaker 1: tea every hole, Like it just was like kind of
Speaker 1: like an eye opener to me, And this was three
Speaker 1: or four years ago, and I just was like, that's
Speaker 1: where I started to think, like, God, Rory's the most
Speaker 1: short changed of anybody.
Speaker 3: Out of this. Yeah, he's the great normal of our generation.
Speaker 2: Maybe you know, he would have been pretty special with
Speaker 2: the old stuff, but so with Dustin there's more of
Speaker 2: them now, I think.
Speaker 3: And as I said, that goes back to like as
Speaker 3: I said.
Speaker 2: Moore too, Yeah, and that whole Tiger influence and everyone
Speaker 2: grew up seeing a high level you know, he made
Speaker 2: length really cool too, and like it was.
Speaker 3: I mean, there's so much goes into this.
Speaker 2: That's why I don't think you can narrow it down
Speaker 2: to one little issue. I like, evolution, Like you use
Speaker 2: the word evolution, Golf evolves, and I like it's great
Speaker 2: that it's evolved from leather of stuff balls so like.
Speaker 3: Like graphite shafts and titanium, right, I mean, it's great.
Speaker 2: It's part of the coolness of the game, right, amazingly like,
Speaker 2: but there's.
Speaker 3: There's a balance that needs to be there.
Speaker 2: You know, the argument that people enjoy golf more now
Speaker 2: because the equipment's like, that's completely false because you're saying
Speaker 2: that the goal the members of Conway Farms in nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy five, that probably wasn't even there. The members of
Speaker 2: Madonna and any I didn't enjoy golf then, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, you can't, you can't use They loved it.
Speaker 2: That's why they played it, and that's why golf was
Speaker 2: a big sport.
Speaker 3: So the argument that it's enjoyed more now than before
Speaker 3: is false.
Speaker 2: Now if you move the equipment back a little bit,
Speaker 2: maybe like people wouldn't like going back to wind up
Speaker 2: windows on their car. You know, once you've got power windows,
Speaker 2: you like power windows. Right, there's another.
Speaker 3: Element to it. But and it's nice of the evolution.
Speaker 2: It just seems like the biggest problem is that we're
Speaker 2: sitting here and there's fifty podcasts going on in every week.
Speaker 2: I'm talking about this very issue. Everyone's only focused on
Speaker 2: this one thing and then maybe not noticing other stuff.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I think that's a side thing that's not good.
Speaker 2: And it's as I said, I think the focus is
Speaker 2: way too much on length. I think hybrids have changed
Speaker 2: professional golf so much more than the length we had.
Speaker 2: It's in credit, it's not even close. I mean, hitting
Speaker 2: at two twenty in the air. Two thirty in the
Speaker 2: air twenty or thirty years ago was only for the very,
Speaker 2: very very elite of the elite. You know, Now everybody
Speaker 2: it's at two forty in the air, out of the rough,
Speaker 2: you know, like it's it's that that's changed it more so,
Speaker 2: I don't know how you even begin to address issues
Speaker 2: like that. I think if you just made the ball
Speaker 2: go small shorter, say, if that was what someone wanted
Speaker 2: to do, I don't think you fix what I think
Speaker 2: is not fix. You don't really change much, you know,
Speaker 2: As I said, I think the beauty of the game
Speaker 2: is that kind of that balance between it's really just
Speaker 2: hard to hit a golf shot and the challenge that
Speaker 2: the golf course presents you. And I think that's why
Speaker 2: it's so enduring, you know. But if it's all about
Speaker 2: a really hard golf course, impossible shots everywhere, but with
Speaker 2: equipment that you can maybe hit them, there's that's one
Speaker 2: end of the spectrum, and the other end of the
Speaker 2: spectrum is golf equipment it's impossible to use, and of
Speaker 2: course it's got no hazards on it at all. There's
Speaker 2: somewhere in the middle of that's the best, right And
Speaker 2: I think you've got we've got to sort of find
Speaker 2: that middle ground.
Speaker 3: Are we there at the moment? I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean if you look at all golf outside of
Speaker 2: the PGA Tour or the top one percent, golf's probably great,
Speaker 2: you know. I Mean the trouble is that top one
Speaker 2: percent has such a massive influence on the way people
Speaker 2: set their courses up and the way people try to
Speaker 2: play golf that it's getting a lot of attention.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and perfect segue here. You know, so you just
Speaker 1: got hired, you Mike Cock, Ashley Bead just got hired
Speaker 1: for Medina's master plan. You know, like that's like a
Speaker 1: perfect golf a perfect example of golf course that is
Speaker 1: kind of in that scene like Augusta Nashal buying a
Speaker 1: property like m Data can't buy a property, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's a golf course that history has been reached with
Speaker 1: major championships. What do you do in this this landscape?
Speaker 1: But I'm interested to hear about getting the projected. What
Speaker 1: you're excited about and in any any early thoughts about that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, firstly, it's super excited. I mean, what a job.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's kind of the one of the dreamiest
Speaker 2: jobs that we could get obviously one of America's most
Speaker 2: famous courses, tons of majors, rider cups, future President's Cup. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so incredibly excited. I mean getting the job was it
Speaker 2: was remote, I mean normally because of the COVID thing.
Speaker 2: Normally we would be over, we would walk the course,
Speaker 2: we would come up with all sorts of stuff and
Speaker 2: meet with the board and that was all sort of
Speaker 2: remote internet research. The boys were picking my brain on
Speaker 2: my experience. The O six PGA was my real experiens there.
Speaker 1: With Tiger and Phil.
Speaker 2: With Tiger and Phil first two days, Yeah, that's my
Speaker 2: biggest ever draw. So I remember it pretty vividly. That
Speaker 2: was a crazy day, crazy two days, unbelievable, but so yeah,
Speaker 2: the boys dug up all information, actually found some historical
Speaker 2: photos and stuff that Madonna didn't even have, you know,
Speaker 2: came up with a pretty good thing, did all the
Speaker 2: proposals over zoom meetings and stuff, and it was it worked.
Speaker 3: It's great.
Speaker 2: We're so excited, really excited, can't wait to get there.
Speaker 2: And as far as what do you do? I think
Speaker 2: a trigger for Madonna was JT shooting twenty seven or
Speaker 2: twenty eight hundred. A couple of years ago, weren't it
Speaker 2: when they presented what they thought was a super difficult test,
Speaker 2: And I think it was just I'd like to not
Speaker 2: a just a bit of an uh, I don't even know.
Speaker 2: I'm not losing the word. But a sign that long
Speaker 2: and soft with perfect grounds, two guys are going to
Speaker 2: go low. You can't make it too long and rough
Speaker 2: doesn't really matter. And if it's soft in the grazy
Speaker 2: rolling good people are going to hold parts. I think.
Speaker 3: A bit of if you can find a way to
Speaker 3: get it a bit firmer, you know, and maybe uh.
Speaker 2: Take length out of it a little bit. If you've
Speaker 2: got it a little bit firmer. There's some dog legs there.
Speaker 2: There's quite a lot of undulation. It's a great property
Speaker 2: if you can get the ball bouncing a little bit.
Speaker 2: All of a sudden, driver over the corner runs through
Speaker 2: into the trees, you know.
Speaker 3: So you've got to maybe shape around the corner and
Speaker 3: do some.
Speaker 2: Stuff like that. I think that's the only way to
Speaker 2: do it without being able to get long. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: a cool place though, what a property.
Speaker 1: It's an unbelievables one of the best properties for golf
Speaker 1: in Chicago, and that the thing I was at that event,
Speaker 1: and the thing that like was so jarring having played
Speaker 1: their handful of times and like, it's not it's not
Speaker 1: an easy place to play golf, like regardless of you know,
Speaker 1: for anybody. But you look, you're walking in the rough.
Speaker 1: You're just like, it was unbelievable how thick the rough was,
Speaker 1: and it just it had seemingly no impact at all.
Speaker 1: And obviously the weather they got handed was brutal. It
Speaker 1: just dumped rain, but it was It's kind of and
Speaker 1: I think that event in a way. Obviously I think
Speaker 1: it impacted Medina's future, but I think it impacted a
Speaker 1: lot of golf courses like Medina's future. They looked at
Speaker 1: that and we're like, oh wow, like we something. You know,
Speaker 1: there's a we need to present a different type of
Speaker 1: test because that old test that worked for you know,
Speaker 1: fifty years and was considered the way to test players change.
Speaker 1: You know, there was a shift that week because it
Speaker 1: was nuts.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean I think the focus is.
Speaker 2: Again another byproduct that's probably not great about everyone obsessing
Speaker 2: about length is.
Speaker 3: It makes the setups.
Speaker 2: Everyone focuses on length, so they make them soft, they
Speaker 2: make them long, narrow, and if it's soft with good surf,
Speaker 2: a soft course with good greens. Unless it's like outrageously
Speaker 2: impossible like Beth Page and you just ring every green
Speaker 2: with bunkers and rough, guys are going to go low.
Speaker 2: Two guys are going to go lower. The perfect example
Speaker 2: this week that Riviera Riviera on paper and on the
Speaker 2: ground in the same condition as Madonna. The guys would
Speaker 2: shoot in the twenties every time. But it's got West
Speaker 2: Coast greens, which the power greens will generally in the
Speaker 2: afternoon get bumpy. They're firm, being very slopey, so you
Speaker 2: would argue that by the end of the day they're
Speaker 2: kind of poor. It's a poor surface but firm, whereas
Speaker 2: Madonna is a perfect surface but soft. You know, I mean,
Speaker 2: Madonna's proably five hundred meters long, five hundred yards longer
Speaker 2: or more. But riv it's just got real challenge around
Speaker 2: the greens. They're really they're firm, and they're no guarantees
Speaker 2: from twenty feet like patting off three feet even and
Speaker 2: they'll be they'll be single digits of twelve or thirty
Speaker 2: under parol in Riviera or something like that.
Speaker 3: Every single year.
Speaker 2: It presents a massive challenge with really no rough but
Speaker 2: just a bit of a bounce on a green and slope.
Speaker 1: That's interesting ground too.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean look Ribs and it's one of the probably
Speaker 2: the best golf course in the world on a bad
Speaker 2: pazz of land.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's incredible and it's an unbelievable I'm not taking
Speaker 2: anything away from rivi Era, but if you looked at
Speaker 2: the numbers on paper and walked walked each course, you
Speaker 2: would all predict people would shoot lower scores at Rib
Speaker 2: than they would at Madonna. Mcdonna looks a big grand
Speaker 2: test with some big shots over the water and up
Speaker 2: and downhills. It's like Rib seems like, oh yeah, I
Speaker 2: could get my way around here. But it's completely different.
Speaker 2: And I think it's mostly because it's firm and the
Speaker 2: greens are a real challenge and you can't really overpower
Speaker 2: riv because the challenge is all up at the green
Speaker 2: end of the course.
Speaker 3: So I think.
Speaker 2: Perfect greens that are soft two guys will go low.
Speaker 2: Just firm, firm conditions, I think is really the their way.
Speaker 2: And as I said, they Madonna that you had sometimes
Speaker 2: you just don't have a chance.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: It wants the rain in Chicago, it rains in Chicago, right,
Speaker 2: there's not much you could do about that. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I think firmness. I mean, you can't have bad greens.
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying Riviera bad greens at all, but
Speaker 2: those West Coast greens. I think golf is interesting when
Speaker 2: you get that afternoon grain effect, you know, like the
Speaker 2: greens is almost too good. Now there's ho perfect And
Speaker 2: if they're soft, you can hit it on the green
Speaker 2: from anywhere, So then your decision off the tea is
Speaker 2: less important because you can miss it right or left
Speaker 2: and still hit it close. But if it's firm, you
Speaker 2: can only be on one side of the ferry or
Speaker 2: the other, you know.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 1: Do you see how they changed up the setup mid
Speaker 1: tournament at Pebble a little bit with they use the
Speaker 1: different the right t on ten, the three ninety five
Speaker 1: or three fifty three sixty t on ten, and then
Speaker 1: they they've made five like one thirty one day, and
Speaker 1: then they did they moved the team way up on four.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I saw him do that. Actually, I like they do.
Speaker 3: I like that do that?
Speaker 2: Actually it was better from a variety of teas, right,
Speaker 2: because it has a massive variety of teas that people
Speaker 2: don't know when you're there. There's a ton of tees,
Speaker 2: different angles, and yeah, it was great.
Speaker 1: I feel like that's one thing that is it explored enough,
Speaker 1: is like the idea of like you got to be
Speaker 1: prepared to play the entire golf course and we aren't
Speaker 1: going to tell you what teas were playing on what day.
Speaker 3: I think that's the best thing that Mike Dave just
Speaker 3: did was doing that.
Speaker 2: Like we get to Tory and there was all these
Speaker 2: rumors that he was going to play fourteen as a
Speaker 2: driveable hole, and like we couldn't work out what do
Speaker 2: you mean?
Speaker 3: And everyone's trying to like work out what.
Speaker 2: Yardages they were going to have from teas and caddies
Speaker 2: were scrambling and they were comparing books.
Speaker 3: About where's he gonna have this tea.
Speaker 2: And then every year for a few years after that,
Speaker 2: there was this rumor that he was going to pay
Speaker 2: one of these long part fours is a short part
Speaker 2: four and like drive everyone nuts in practice rounds because
Speaker 2: we couldn't work out which one it was. But it
Speaker 2: was a great thing. You know, what is a there's two?
Speaker 2: There's there has traditionally been like the path three's you
Speaker 2: just play the four back to you just go back
Speaker 2: back back back four days in a row. You get
Speaker 2: the five on in every hole every day on the
Speaker 2: fourth and seven on every day on that and it's
Speaker 2: always a six on on that whole. I think moving
Speaker 2: at one hundred yards one day, two hundred yards the next,
Speaker 2: one hundred and seventy the next.
Speaker 3: That's way more interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, so I like that they're doing that,
Speaker 2: especially at Pebble, because Pebble is a place that it
Speaker 2: really I mean four changes completely. Five goes from really
Speaker 2: tricky to maybe you kind of get more aggressive from
Speaker 2: a short tea.
Speaker 1: I think sometimes, well, it seemed like it like really
Speaker 1: messed with abound five, like they just didn't know what
Speaker 1: to do. They kind of were like a shock that
Speaker 1: it was up there.
Speaker 3: We've played that.
Speaker 2: I feel like I've played that team in the US Open,
Speaker 2: maybe like in Web Simpson's Yeah maybe, but yeah, I
Speaker 2: like it variety. They shouldn't do it because that's the
Speaker 2: tea that the am set off every time when we
Speaker 2: play in the pro am.
Speaker 3: I think the one in front of the ditch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were saying is because there is no ams
Speaker 1: and no fans. It's like, I don't understand that at all. Like,
Speaker 1: I don't understand why you can't. Like you're running the tournament,
Speaker 1: you can do whatever you want.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think there's again it's that length thing. I mean,
Speaker 2: everyone's sort of.
Speaker 3: Everyone.
Speaker 2: It's like pins. It's like sixteen at Phoenix, the sixteenth
Speaker 2: green at Phoenix. When you watch it, it's firmer than
Speaker 2: the other ones. They actually set sixteen up to be
Speaker 2: harder than the other hole. It's like ten at riv
Speaker 2: they still have green harder, absolutely, and they shouldn't. They
Speaker 2: should be the other way around. Sixteen at Phoenix should
Speaker 2: have a hole in one. It should be like sixteen
Speaker 2: at AUGUSTA. I should have a hole in one pin.
Speaker 2: And there should be one day where everybody's just having
Speaker 2: hole in ones and like lipping it out because you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, that's where everybody wants to see
Speaker 2: he's actually a good shot. I mean, sixteen August is
Speaker 2: still a real hole, right, But like I've always told them,
Speaker 2: but they always seem to make that green a little
Speaker 2: bit firmer, harder to hit.
Speaker 3: It close than the other seventeen greens.
Speaker 2: And it's the upside down mentality aricon, you know, So
Speaker 2: I think it shouldn't always be set up. Everyone always
Speaker 2: sets up every hole to be as hot as I can.
Speaker 2: I think every now and then you should set them
Speaker 2: up to be easy, like confusingly easy too.
Speaker 3: I think it's more interesting that way. It should.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it should be a mix like that's I mean,
Speaker 1: that's the beauty is Like my favorite thing is like
Speaker 1: a green where you've got a really easy setup, like
Speaker 1: you can play I'm trying to think now off the
Speaker 1: top of my head, but like you know, there's tons
Speaker 1: of places where you could have a pin in a
Speaker 1: place that's super easy, and then the next day you
Speaker 1: can put it somewhere where you know, fifteen at riv
Speaker 1: is a good example of like if you put the
Speaker 1: pin front left, it's always a hard hole because of
Speaker 1: the length. But you put that pin front left, people
Speaker 1: are going to make birdies. When they put it back right.
Speaker 2: Nobody makes birdies absolutely absolutely, So I think the day
Speaker 2: you have a front left, you have a front team.
Speaker 2: Maybe like you haven't played quite easy Saturday and then
Speaker 2: really hard Sunday or something else. And I think most courses,
Speaker 2: and I think the better the course, the more you
Speaker 2: can do that.
Speaker 3: I mean, look at the Masters I mean they Augusta.
Speaker 2: You can set up almost every whole relatively easy, and
Speaker 2: you can set it up almost impossible because of the pin,
Speaker 2: you know St Andrew's roll, Melburn, all the great courses
Speaker 2: do that, and Riviera they should do that more often,
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 3: Yes, nobody cares.
Speaker 2: Nobody leaves Tornament really unless it's a scoring record thinking
Speaker 2: oh that course wasn't any good. They shot eight in
Speaker 2: under this week, that must be a shit. Nobody thinks that.
Speaker 2: I mean, who thinks that. They walk out saying how
Speaker 2: good was that? Where what we just watched today? You know,
Speaker 2: it's amazing?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly that's I think par goes back to par.
Speaker 1: Just got to get it, get away from it. But
Speaker 1: or the mentality of it is really the mentality of
Speaker 1: par because like, yeah, if and it should, I think
Speaker 1: the other thing it would do is like these guys
Speaker 1: don't play practice rounds anymore. Right, if you got to
Speaker 1: play the entire golf course, probably gonna play a little
Speaker 1: bit more on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.
Speaker 3: The golfers have become pro.
Speaker 2: Golf has become a science experiment in a way, and
Speaker 2: they're very good at it. You know, Yeah, this is
Speaker 2: getting all the numbers right and working on the range
Speaker 2: and doing all your things. So when you go on
Speaker 2: the course and the artist books are so good that
Speaker 2: you just plug in the numbers and go, it's not
Speaker 2: you're not playing practure ons Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and like
Speaker 2: crafting out a way to play the course anymore.
Speaker 3: It's but the level is so high now you can't
Speaker 3: you can't.
Speaker 1: I know, they're really good.
Speaker 3: I can't argue with that. It's really good. Yeah, variety, Like.
Speaker 2: You said, if there was always like infinite variety and setup,
Speaker 2: then guys would have to play more practice rounds.
Speaker 1: And that's good.
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, all right, it's all good. It's all good.
Speaker 1: That's that's it. That's all we're talking about. You got
Speaker 1: anything else you want to talk about?
Speaker 2: No, I uh, we're locked down again for a couple
Speaker 2: of days, so.
Speaker 3: No golf, but back to it soon.
Speaker 1: Overfully, you've been playing a lot.
Speaker 3: I played a bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I played a couple of the I played that
Speaker 2: Player Series event and the tournament the week before. It
Speaker 2: was a small tournament. I was playing quite a bit
Speaker 2: through our summer. Yeah, recently, but it's feeling right. I
Speaker 2: was getting a bit eancy to come and play some
Speaker 2: real tournaments. Actually after I played a couple, but travel
Speaker 2: in the quarantine and kids back here and just the
Speaker 2: way the world is. We'll just play that one one
Speaker 2: by one.
Speaker 1: I guess, Hey, did you go down to that Linesdale
Speaker 1: place that you guys opened yet?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Lovestale. Sweet, it is really good.
Speaker 2: You've obviously seen the drones and stuff, and then it's
Speaker 2: really very photogetic.
Speaker 3: It's really cool. Yeah, so fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just it's basically open for the members. It's
Speaker 2: open now and we're just finishing off the path. There's
Speaker 2: a little part three course. It's gonna be a range
Speaker 2: and a POS three course. It can be all the
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. And that's opening. That's opening
Speaker 2: in a month and then it's then they were away. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's a greade play. It's really really fun.
Speaker 1: One thing that is super cool that I've seen that
Speaker 1: we talked about the Player Series. Super cool event in America.
Speaker 1: The Wisconsin State Golf Association hosts a par three tournament
Speaker 1: at the Sandbox, which is at sand Valley, and it's
Speaker 1: all ages, all handicaps, it's vetted women. They have a
Speaker 1: men and a women's tournament. But like a couple of years.
Speaker 1: I mean the longest hole out there is like one
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty yards. The first year they did it,
Speaker 1: they have college players playing in it. They have you know,
Speaker 1: it's all amateurs a four handicap one really because it's
Speaker 1: all short short shots. Yeah. Yeah, you take driver out
Speaker 1: all of a sudden. That could be a cool event
Speaker 1: to do, like Lotsdale the Part three course.
Speaker 3: A Part three event would be great.
Speaker 1: Like actually Australian Part three Championship.
Speaker 3: We could do that and you have so we should.
Speaker 2: We wanted to do it a shady like like leading
Speaker 2: up to Colonial you know.
Speaker 3: What I mean, have a little thing it like they've
Speaker 3: got a great little path three.
Speaker 2: Be interesting to see if you play seventy two holes
Speaker 2: around a legitimate Part.
Speaker 3: Three course, who would actually be the best golfer? That
Speaker 3: would be That would be fun to watch.
Speaker 1: If I went and watched the Part three it was incredible.
Speaker 1: I mean you had you have like sixty sixty five
Speaker 1: year old women playing, then you have twenty one year
Speaker 1: old college kid playing and it was I mean, like
Speaker 1: I think the anybody could win the tournament because it's
Speaker 1: so short.
Speaker 2: You know, do you think if that was golf. Do
Speaker 2: you think Rory, Bryce and DJ would still be the best.
Speaker 3: No, do you think that.
Speaker 1: Do you think Rory would beat Zach Johnson in one
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty yards and in contest?
Speaker 3: No chance, no chance, Wow, not no chance. Rory's rety amazing.
Speaker 2: You'd have some chance, obviously, but yeah, there are some
Speaker 2: specialists in that area.
Speaker 3: It'd be interesting, it would be interesting. You're right, it'd
Speaker 3: be really cool.
Speaker 2: I mean maybe not every week either, but like there's
Speaker 2: not very many legitimate Part three courses though, you know,
Speaker 2: most have been becoming they're becoming cooler again.
Speaker 3: Now, you know.
Speaker 2: With the horse Course, Prairie June or PRAI Prairie Club, right,
Speaker 2: and August's obviously always been there, but like and Pebble,
Speaker 2: they're building that one again. And Shady did theirs, and
Speaker 2: I know Bill and Ben have done a couple, and
Speaker 2: Tom's done one or two, girls done a few, Like.
Speaker 3: They're becoming cooler.
Speaker 2: So if you had eighteen legitimate pat threes, like like
Speaker 2: legitimate ones, you know, inside all inside two hundred, that
Speaker 2: would be an interesting tournament.
Speaker 1: It'd be an incredible it would be incredible to watch
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour play that I mean getting or you know,
Speaker 1: that would be such a cool PGA lpg A crossover.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the junior thing.
Speaker 1: Everybody everybody plays straight up, you know it would be
Speaker 1: that'd be my favorite tournament of the year.
Speaker 3: Wow, we've got a fun a venue.
Speaker 1: All right, Hey, this is fun and uh, good luck
Speaker 1: with quarantine and we'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 3: Oh it sounds good. Cheers man,